ERWTOS FYSIS kata toys pateres
Yiannis Koutalos
kairo. Ta mpla-mpla sto parakatw exoune to ksexwristo tous endiaferon,
alla th' asxolhthw mazi tous sallo mhnuma :-)
>
> Apo to biblio Erwtos Fysis toy p.Filo0eoy Faroy
> mpla, mpla, mplaaaaa,
> mpla-mpla-mpla, ...mpla,
> To swma den exei tipote aprepo .h. epaisxynto..........O erws otan den
> diastrefetai einai enwsh proswpwn ki oxi swmatwn, kai den einai amarthma
> alla to megalytero dwro toy 0eoy....
>
Wwwwp! Na ki h leksh-kleidi: DIASTREFETAI. Epeidh eimai praktikos
anthrwpos, ti shmainei kati tetoio se kathhmerino epipedo?? Ti einai
DIASTROFH??
H swmatikh euxaristhsh ?? H paiderastia? H omofulofilia (andrwn kai
gunaikwn)?? O stomatikos erwtas ? O prwktikos? To 69 ?? H xrhsh
profulaktikwn kai antisullhptikwn ?? Peite mas sebasmiwtate!
> r.L.
>
giannhs
Nikos Pontikakis
>
> > >
> > > Apo to biblio Erwtos Fysis toy p.Filo0eoy Faroy
> >
> > > diastrefetai einai enwsh proswpwn ki oxi swmatwn, kai den einai amarthma
> > > alla to megalytero dwro toy 0eoy....
> > >
> >
> > Wwwwp! Na ki h leksh-kleidi: DIASTREFETAI. Epeidh eimai praktikos
> > anthrwpos, ti shmainei kati tetoio se kathhmerino epipedo?? Ti einai
> > DIASTROFH??
> > H swmatikh euxaristhsh ?? H paiderastia? H omofulofilia (andrwn kai
> > gunaikwn)?? O stomatikos erwtas ? O prwktikos? To 69 ?? H xrhsh
> > profulaktikwn kai antisullhptikwn ?? Peite mas sebasmiwtate!
Twra to eida auto, re erws eipe, dev eipe kavw erwta. Allos o Erwtas kai
allo to Sex , kavw erwta telos pavtov.
The Best, suvdiasmos trellou erwta me passionate making love :)
> >
> Egw Giannaro-Zourarikos den eimai gia na lew oti ola ta strava einai tou
> Papa ki ola einai agia stin Orthodoksi Ekklisia alla gia na leme kai tou
> Giannara to dikio oi prwtes Xristianikes Ekklisies eulogousan omofylofilikous
> desmous opws akrivws kai ton gamo !!! Gia tous apistous Koutalous anaferw
> oti to parapanw diavasa se vivlio-meleti tou Yale opou sto appendix exei
> kai to eyxologio pou xrisimopoiousan gia tin en logw teleti. (oxi, o
> syggrafeas den einai o Runciman - ton kseskisate ton kakomoiri - tha
ftarnizetai
> synexws kai asystolws)
>
> Symfwna me to vivlio, kapoia stigmi (an thymamai kala epi Ioustinianou)
> ta omofylofilika zeygi itan asymfora gia tous forologikous skopous tis
> aytokratorias kai tous pirane sto kinigi. Oi papades syntoma eylogisan
> to en logw kinigi (gia na leme kai tou Koutalou to dikio.) Omws allo
> Xristianismos allo papades. Swsta ?
>
> To parapanw peri omofylofilikou erwta eks' epagwgis kalyptei kai ta erwtimata
> gia ta 69 klp klp. Ypothetw oti o p. Filotheos Faros (ma, gamwto, ti onoma
einai
> ayto ? kai thelei na ton pairnoune kai sovara) tha yponoouse kolpa me
> mastigia,donite kai tetoia sta peri DIASTROFIS :-)
>
> ---Anipsios
>
WildGreek
Ioannis G. Papakonstantinou
> > Apo to biblio Erwtos Fysis toy p.Filo0eoy Faroy
>
> > To swma den exei tipote aprepo .h. epaisxynto..........O erws otan den
> > diastrefetai einai enwsh proswpwn ki oxi swmatwn, kai den einai amarthma
> > alla to megalytero dwro toy 0eoy....
> >
>
> Wwwwp! Na ki h leksh-kleidi: DIASTREFETAI. Epeidh eimai praktikos
> anthrwpos, ti shmainei kati tetoio se kathhmerino epipedo?? Ti einai
> DIASTROFH??
> H swmatikh euxaristhsh ?? H paiderastia? H omofulofilia (andrwn kai
> gunaikwn)?? O stomatikos erwtas ? O prwktikos? To 69 ?? H xrhsh
> profulaktikwn kai antisullhptikwn ?? Peite mas sebasmiwtate!
>
Yiannis Koutalos
> Egw Giannaro-Zourarikos den eimai gia na lew oti ola ta strava einai tou
> Papa ki ola einai agia stin Orthodoksi Ekklisia alla gia na leme kai tou
> Giannara to dikio oi prwtes Xristianikes Ekklisies eulogousan omofylofilikous
> desmous opws akrivws kai ton gamo !!! Gia tous apistous Koutalous anaferw
> oti to parapanw diavasa se vivlio-meleti tou Yale opou sto appendix exei
> kai to eyxologio pou xrisimopoiousan gia tin en logw teleti. (oxi, o
> syggrafeas den einai o Runciman - ton kseskisate ton kakomoiri - tha
ftarnizetai
> synexws kai asystolws)
Apo thn anafora sto Yale, upopteuomai oti anaferesai sth douleia tou
Boswell (theos sxwreston, mas teleiwse teleutaia).
Me ta prwtoxristianika, opws hdh exw grapsei, den exw kanena apolutws
problhma, makari naxane epibiwsei. Ta metepeita einai pou mou kathountai
sto stomaxi.
>
> Symfwna me to vivlio, kapoia stigmi (an thymamai kala epi Ioustinianou)
> ta omofylofilika zeygi itan asymfora gia tous forologikous skopous tis
> aytokratorias kai tous pirane sto kinigi. Oi papades syntoma eylogisan
> to en logw kinigi (gia na leme kai tou Koutalou to dikio.) Omws allo
> Xristianismos allo papades. Swsta ?
>
Polu swsta! :-)
> ---Anipsios
>
giannhs
M. Dikaiakos
>From: Yiannis Koutalos <kout...@ESSEX.UCHSC.EDU>
>Subject: Re: ERWTOS FYSIS kata toys pateres
>
>Wwwwp! Na ki h leksh-kleidi: DIASTREFETAI. Epeidh eimai praktikos
>anthrwpos, ti shmainei kati tetoio se kathhmerino epipedo?? Ti einai
>DIASTROFH??
>H swmatikh euxaristhsh ?? H paiderastia? H omofulofilia (andrwn kai
>gunaikwn)?? O stomatikos erwtas ? O prwktikos? To 69 ?? H xrhsh
>profulaktikwn kai antisullhptikwn ?? Peite mas sebasmiwtate!
>
Siga megale, mas sokares me thn eley8erostomia soy kai mas teleiwses
me thn epixeirhmatologia soy (btw, jexases thn kthnobasia)... H diastrofh
den anaferetai se sejoyalikes praktikes alla se kataptwsh ths cyxhs
toy an8rwpoy ston egwismo.
Antigrafw apo to biblio "Orthodox Spirituality" toy Mhtropolith
Iero8eoy Blaxoy (exw mono thn metafrash), opoy o I.B. epixeirei
enan orismo:
"In the teachings of the holy Fathers, passions are not outside forces
which enter us and must thus be uprooted. Rather they are energies of
the soul which have been distorted and need to be transformed.
A person's soul as far as the passions are concerned is divided into
three faculties: the intelligent (reasoning), the appetitive (desire)
and the irascible (affective). These three faculties must be directed
towards God. When they turn away from Him and others, they become
known as passions. For this reason, passion is movement of the
soul contrary to nature.
St. John the Sinaite makes this quite clear by using certain
examples. Conjugal relations are quite natural for procreation;
however, contemporary man has altered their significance into
something banal. Anger is natural when directed against the
eveil one, however we use it against our brothers. Jealousy
is natural as long as what is coveted and emulated are the
virtues of the saints. However, this also gets employed against
our brothers.
Desire for glory is inherent provided it is the kingdom of Heaven
that is sought but unfortunately this desire is extended on trivial,
temporal and mundane things." klp klp.
"With the perspective of Orthodox spirituality when a person
is liberated from self-conceit, which begets worldliness, avarice
and ambition, he acquires love for God and love for men. He truly
loves others. He sees in each person the image of God."
Marios
Seattle
Lambrini Thoma
or0odo3h paradosh,
epeidh polla legontai peri "poyritanikoy Xristianismoy", kai kaneis de
fainetai na 0ymatai apo poy h le3h "poyritanos" ,
ki epeidh exoyme (once more) th dytikh apoch twn pragmatwn typwmenh sto noy
mas (as einai kala oi Bayarogermanodanoi basileis ki oi organwseis poy
eftia3an gia na alwsoyn thn ekklhsia- kai ekanan kai oly kalh doyleia opws
fainetai sta pro eikosaetias klp kathxhtika) , eipa na doyme ligo kai ta
ka0'hmas.....
Apo to biblio Erwtos Fysis toy p.Filo0eoy Faroy
..... H aporrich twn ylikwn pragmatwn poy syxna emfanizetai ws askhtismos
basizetai se mia dyistikh stash, poy zhtei th swthria e3w apo ton kosmo,
apomakrysmenos apo thn a0liothta ths ylikhs ypar3ews sto xwro toy
"pneymatos". Alla, ayto einai aporrich ths dhmioyrgias kai ths peri
Dhmioyrgias didaskalias ths or0odo3oy Ekklhsias. O dyisths
(s.L.neoplatwnikos?) den mporei na paradextei oti h swthria, h ontws
pragmatikothta, mporei na eyrisketai ston kosmo. ... Omws o 0eos den einai
kapoio aprosito Apolyto , apokommeno apo th zwh ki adiaforo gi aythn, alla
einai aytos poy energei ston kosmo poy edhmioyrghse. H epananakalych ths
didaskalias ths Dhmioyrgias, me thn ais0hsh ths gia ton e3agiasmeno
xarakthra twn pragmatwn, megalwn kai mikrwn, einai epitaktikh gia th zwh
shmera kai aparaithth gia thn katanohsh toy erwta. H pragmatikh apodoxh toy
gegonotos ths Dhmioyrgias, apaitei mia 0 e t i k h stash apenanti sto
an0rwpino swma kai ola ta melh kai tis leitoyrgies toy...... O Xristos den
htan monaxos. Ton apekalesan "fago kai poth" . O Yios toy an0rwpoy etrwge,
epine, symmeteixe se diaskedaseis, ki aphy0yne tis sklhroteres epikriseis
toy s' osoys nhsteyan sxolastika ki apeixan apo ta toy kosmoy. O askhtismos
toy Xristoy apoblepei apokleistika sthn katapolemhsh toy egwkentrismoy xarin
ths Agaphs, ki o x i sthn e3oy0enwsh toy swmatos kai sthn ypoba0mish ths
ylhs xarin toy pneymatos. O askhtismos toy Payloy einai esxatologikos ki oxi
dyistikos, basismenos sthn klimakoymenh prosdokia ki oxi sthn arnhsh toy
kosmoy. To swma prepei na xrhsimopoih0ei , oxi na kakopoih0ei .h. timwrh0ei.
To swma den exei tipote aprepo .h. epaisxynto..........O erws otan den
diastrefetai einai enwsh proswpwn ki oxi swmatwn, kai den einai amarthma
alla to megalytero dwro toy 0eoy.... Apo toys pateres ths Anatolhs, o
Xrysostomos apokalei ton erwta "0eoy Dwron" ki o Dionysios Areopagiths "to
enoeides". O de (s.L.Salonikios!) Ag. Nikolaos Kabasilas leei oti "o
an0rwpinos erwtas e3 arxhs ftiaxthke san 0hsayros toso megalos kai toso
eyrys wste na mporei na ypodex0ei ton 0eo".
r.L.
Lambrini Thoma
>kairo.
Pali se 3elaspwsa Koytale! Kala, an den eixes kai mena ti 0a hsoyn ath gh?;-)))
Synexizw omws :Grafei o Giannhs :
>> To swma den exei tipote aprepo .h. epaisxynto..........O erws otan den
>> diastrefetai einai enwsh proswpwn ki oxi swmatwn, kai den einai amarthma
>> alla to megalytero dwro toy 0eoy....
>>
>
>Wwwwp! Na ki h leksh-kleidi: DIASTREFETAI. Epeidh eimai praktikos
>anthrwpos, ti shmainei kati tetoio se kathhmerino epipedo?? Ti einai
>DIASTROFH??
Afoy re Giannakh ta 3anapame ayta sta peri Diaboloy... diastrofh shmainei
ayto poy se dia-strefei kai se odhgei se astoxia... Se epipedo sex (poy den
mporei na diaxwristei paterika apo ton erwta) shmainei na odhgeisai ston
egwismo mesa ap ayto ki oxi sthn ba0yterh biwsh toy stoxoy...
>giannhs
r.L.
p.s. epeidh h dikh moy h a-martia einai poy bariemai eykola, se parakalw
Giannakh, mh moy 3anabazeis ta idia. Ase poy enisxyeis diarkws thn apoch moy
oti grafeis gia na grafeis ki oyte se noiazoyn oi apoceis toy alloy(styl
skandalo0hra, dhladh);-)... Sto lew, pleon an gyrizeis sta idia kai ta idia,
den prokeitai na soy apantaw dioti bariemai poly....
Yiannis Koutalos
> Siga megale, mas sokares me thn eley8erostomia soy kai mas teleiwses
> me thn epixeirhmatologia soy (btw, jexases thn kthnobasia)... H diastrofh
> den anaferetai se sejoyalikes praktikes alla se kataptwsh ths cyxhs
> toy an8rwpoy ston egwismo.
Euxaristw gia thn dieukrinhsh opws kai gia ta parakatw pou den
anaferontai se genikothtes peri egwismou alla se polu sugkekrimenous
skopous tou erwta (kai twn seksoualikwn praktikwn):
> Antigrafw apo to biblio "Orthodox Spirituality" toy Mhtropolith
> Iero8eoy Blaxoy (exw mono thn metafrash), opoy o I.B. epixeirei
> enan orismo:
>
> St. John the Sinaite makes this quite clear by using certain
> examples. Conjugal relations are quite natural for procreation;
> however, contemporary man has altered their significance into
> something banal.
Wwwwwp! Nato kai tallo to kleidaki! PROCREATION! Ki h swmatikh
euxaristhsh banal! Kai h antisullhpsh profanws "unnatural". Kai gia
omofulofilia, fidi pou mas efage! Ekson ki an oi seksoualikes sxeseis
pou exoune kapoion parapera skopo apo thn anaparagwgh einai deigmata
EGWISMOU, dhladh DIASTROFHS!
> Marios
> Seattle
giannhs
Vasilakis Fykos
>Epeidh o Basilakhs milhse gia xwrismo andra-gynaikas ston erwta, sthn
>or0odo3h paradosh,
>epeidh polla legontai peri "poyritanikoy Xristianismoy", kai kaneis de
>fainetai na 0ymatai apo poy h le3h "poyritanos" ,
>ki epeidh exoyme (once more) th dytikh apoch twn pragmatwn typwmenh sto noy
>mas (as einai kala oi Bayarogermanodanoi basileis ki oi organwseis poy
>eftia3an gia na alwsoyn thn ekklhsia- kai ekanan kai oly kalh doyleia opws
>fainetai sta pro eikosaetias klp kathxhtika) , eipa na doyme ligo kai ta
>ka0'hmas.....
Pragmati ta peri synoysias MONO gia thn anapagwgh, o Vasilakis ta
prwtoakoyse se tryferh hlikia sto kathxhtiko. Den einai "ka8'hmas"
ta kathxhthka? H epishmh ekklhsia den ta organwnei? An den einai
h idia h Ekklhsia ths Ellados "ka8'hmas" tote ti einai?
>Apo to biblio Erwtos Fysis toy p.Filo0eoy Faroy
>...... H aporrich twn ylikwn pragmatwn poy syxna emfanizetai ws askhtismos
>basizetai se mia dyistikh stash, poy zhtei th swthria e3w apo ton kosmo,
>apomakrysmenos apo thn a0liothta ths ylikhs ypar3ews sto xwro toy
>"pneymatos". Alla, ayto einai aporrich ths dhmioyrgias kai ths peri
>Dhmioyrgias didaskalias ths or0odo3oy Ekklhsias. O dyisths
>(s.L.neoplatwnikos?) den mporei na paradextei oti h swthria, h ontws
>pragmatikothta, mporei na eyrisketai ston kosmo. ... Omws o 0eos den einai
>kapoio aprosito Apolyto , apokommeno apo th zwh ki adiaforo gi aythn, alla
>einai aytos poy energei ston kosmo poy edhmioyrghse. H epananakalych ths
>didaskalias ths Dhmioyrgias, me thn ais0hsh ths gia ton e3agiasmeno
>xarakthra twn pragmatwn, megalwn kai mikrwn, einai epitaktikh gia th zwh
>shmera kai aparaithth gia thn katanohsh toy erwta. H pragmatikh apodoxh toy
>gegonotos ths Dhmioyrgias, apaitei mia 0 e t i k h stash apenanti sto
>an0rwpino swma kai ola ta melh kai tis leitoyrgies toy...... O Xristos den
>htan monaxos. Ton apekalesan "fago kai poth" . O Yios toy an0rwpoy etrwge,
>epine, symmeteixe se diaskedaseis, ki aphy0yne tis sklhroteres epikriseis
>toy s' osoys nhsteyan sxolastika ki apeixan apo ta toy kosmoy. O askhtismos
>toy Xristoy apoblepei apokleistika sthn katapolemhsh toy egwkentrismoy xarin
>ths Agaphs, ki o x i sthn e3oy0enwsh toy swmatos kai sthn ypoba0mish ths
>ylhs xarin toy pneymatos. O askhtismos toy Payloy einai esxatologikos ki oxi
>dyistikos, basismenos sthn klimakoymenh prosdokia ki oxi sthn arnhsh toy
>kosmoy. To swma prepei na xrhsimopoih0ei , oxi na kakopoih0ei .h. timwrh0ei.
>To swma den exei tipote aprepo .h. epaisxynto..........O erws otan den
>diastrefetai einai enwsh proswpwn ki oxi swmatwn, kai den einai amarthma
>alla to megalytero dwro toy 0eoy.... Apo toys pateres ths Anatolhs, o
>Xrysostomos apokalei ton erwta "0eoy Dwron" ki o Dionysios Areopagiths "to
>enoeides". O de (s.L.Salonikios!) Ag. Nikolaos Kabasilas leei oti "o
>an0rwpinos erwtas e3 arxhs ftiaxthke san 0hsayros toso megalos kai toso
>eyrys wste na mporei na ypodex0ei ton 0eo".
Kala ta leei o filosofos soy. Alla yparxoyn kai alloi poy lene
alla:
"H ekklhsiastikh paradosh gnwrizei plh8os monaxwn poy apefygan na
ikanopoihsoyn kai stoixiwdhs akoma swmatikes anagkes, gia na
kallierghsoyn thn tapeinwsh kai na kyriarxhsoyn sta pa8h.."
Shmeiwsh Vasilaki: htan "pa8os" na trws h' na xezeis..
Diakoph gia to ka8ierwmeno jerato...
".. Etsi syxna parathrhtai entonh apostrofh pros to swma kai
anazhthsh tyranikwn me8odwn gia ton ypopiasmo toy wste na
8anatw8ei h amartia poy katoikei mesa toy kai na apodesmeytei h
psyxei apo thn paxylh sarka poy thn peribalei, gia na mporesei,
opoios po8ei thn teleiothta, na mimh8ei apo twra thn aswmatikh
zwh twn agelwn."
Kai synexizei (ti legame gia to apwles8en orxeofylakio
toy Wrigenh?): "Ayth thn epoxh, h ejarsh twn idewdwn ths
agnohtas, ths par8enIas kai o ekoysios eynoxismos stoys andres
htan idietaira diadedomenos" (1)
Ti einai ayta Lamprinh, papika? Epishs par8enIa kai eynoyxismos
pane dipla-dipla.. Kai synexizw:
Akoma kai M. Basileios fronei oti "to keteklhskos toy swmatos kai
h ths egkrateias epan8oysa wxria" apoteloyn xarakthristhka toy
gnhsioy xristianoy (2).
Alh8eia ti 8a elege o megas an kapoios toy elege oti einai
akoma pio xlwmos epeidh mazi me th nhsteia to rixnei kai sto
gamhsi? Diafwnoyn edw oi patriarxes? Mhpws lew..
Alla ta ejhgoyn ayta alloi:
"h apostrofh pros to swma exei to ejhs nohma gia to Xristiano:
na ekfrasei ton po8o toy na mimh8ei ton Xristo mesa sthn
esxatologikh atmosfaira" (1).
Alla o Xristos htan par8ena! Otan loipon o xristianos paleyei na
toy moiasei...bingo!
Kapoioi filoi grapsan gia ton Xrysostomo. An kai se polla shmeia
einai asafes an enoei "erwta" thn synoysia h' to synais8hma,
einai wstoso profanes oti gia th epafh mesoyshs ths nhsteias
anaferetai safws thn sarkikh pleyra ths.
Alloi omws lene alla:
"H nhsteia xarakthrizetai ws 8emelios areths kai o xarakthrismos
ths ginetai eykola katanohtos otan lhf8ei yp' opsh oti apoblepei
sthn kalliergeia ths tapeinwshs, poy einai bash ka8e areths." (3)
Ti 8a elege o parapanw an kapoios toy proteine sex kai nhsteia?
As ton afhsw na apanthsei emesws:
"H nhsteia omws den periorizetai sthn apoxh apo thn trofh, alla
dieyrynetai se olikh pneymatikh leitoyrgeia, poy plaisiwnetai me
thn proseyxh, thn apoxh apo thn amartia, thn kalliergeia ths areths
klp. Telos h nhsteia exei esxatologiko prosanatolismo. Me aythn o
pistos paramerizei thn piesh poy askei h f8ora kai o 8anatos kai
prosanatolizei thn yparjh toy sth af8arth kai a8anath zwh" (3)
Ti einai ayto to apospasma? Papiko kai ayto?
Kai en pash periptwsh kapoios eprepe na pei thn apopsh toy
Xrysostomoy sthn Maria thn Aigyptia, h opoia meta apo bion
eklhton apofashse na thn kanei gia th erhmo gia na proseyxetai
kai na sygxwre8ei. H kakomoira omws eixe kayles, idiws ta bradia:
"Synebaine na perasw mia nyxta kai mia mera pesmenh ekei sto xwma
kai den anasykwnomoyn prin na me skepasei storgika me th lampsh toy
ekeino to glyko fws poy skorpize toys tyranikoys logismoys" (4)
Ayth den to skefthke na parei kai ena gkomeno sthn erhmo?
H' mhpws h apopsh toy Xrysostomoy DEN htan eyrews apodekth?
En katakleidei, kala ta lene oi filosofoi sas, alloi omws
lene alla. To na xarakthrizei kaneis bash filosofikwn keimenwn
oloklhres koinwnikes domes, agnowntas tis organomenes ekklhsiasthkes
praktikes (poy se telikh analysh aytes blepei o polys o kosmos) einai
afeles.
Ti 8a legate an egw xarakthriza px. thn Germania toy mesopolemoy
ws proodeytikh, me bash ta erga toy M. Mprext?
Psaxnwntas na broyme t'emetera dialegoyme mono ayta poy mas kanoyn.
Syn oti agnooyme to poio shmantiko: to paron.
Kleinwntas na pw oti den moy ekane entypwsh h apodoxh ths omofylofilias
apo toys prwtoxristianoys. Arage ti lene oi metepeita "proodeytikoi"
"t'emeteroi"? Kai ti leei h ekklhsia shmera?
A, kai gia na mhn jexniwmaste: ta osa wraia lene oi "pateres" gia ton
erwta klp, einai PANTA mesa sta plaisia toy gamoy.
Meta timhs
Vasilakis Fykos
(1) Tsamh D.G. "Eisagwgh sthn paterikh skepsh"
(2) "Orei kata platos 17, 2PG 31, 964C"
(3) Mantzaridh G. "Xristianikh H8ikh"
(4) Saradi-Mendelovici H. "L' Infirmitas sexus de la mondiale byzantine"
Lambrini Thoma
Kai h antisullhpsh profanws "unnatural". Kai gia
>omofulofilia, fidi pou mas efage!
Eides gia na mh diabazeis to fylladio ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs? Oloklhros
Bar0olomaios, agori moy, en mesw katamestoy Eyrwkoinoboylioy kai meta apo
erwthsh twn prassinwn persy, aphnthse sta peri antisyhchs : Den exoyme
kanena problhma me thn antisyllhch oi or0odo3oi, allwste PARADOSIAKA DEN
MPAINOYME STIS KREBATOKAMARES TWN PISTWN! Em, o Bart 3erei apo pateres,
blepeis;-)
Kai tote shkw0hkan kommoynistes , prassinoi kai kapoioi sosialistes kai
xeirokrothsan... oi ypoloipoi xlwmiasan aplws....
>giannhs
r.L.
Dimitrios Tsilikis
Xwris kamia diaOesh alla sta parapavw les ligo polu oti o BarOolwmaios
eipe sto eurwkoivoboulio oti orOodo3ia dexetai thv omofulofilia!!!
Oxi giati ama auto les kala Oa kaveis va 3avadiabaseis thv phgh sou kai
va eleg3eis thv egkurothta ths giati egw 3erw oti oi klhrikoi eivai
evavtiov asuzhthti tetoiwv faivomevwv.Mou faivetai avhkousto oti egive
tetoia dhlwsh.H ekklhsia Oewrei thv evwsh duo avOrwpwv me skopo thv
dhmiourgia apogovwv kai thv allhlosthri3h tous sthv katavohsh tou
euaggeliou kai tou logou tou Oeou.H omofulofilia katadikazetai pavtelws
kai Oewreitai megisth sarkikh amartia.Twra osov afora ta peri apogovwv
kai ta epiteugmata ths episthmhs de Oelw sxolia h ekklhsia ta aporriptei
kathgorhmatikws opws aporriptei kai tis ektrwseis kai gevika tetoies
epembaseis ths episthmhs sthv avOrwpivh fush!!!
XAIRETW DHMHTRHS
Lambrini Thoma
>Pragmati ta peri synoysias MONO gia thn anapagwgh, o Vasilakis ta
>prwtoakoyse se tryferh hlikia sto kathxhtiko. Den einai "ka8'hmas"
>ta kathxhthka? H epishmh ekklhsia den ta organwnei? An den einai
>h idia h Ekklhsia ths Ellados "ka8'hmas" tote ti einai?
Ta kathxhtika sxoleia (poy den phga pote, opote den moirazomai thn
traymatikh soy empeiria) htan (kai se arketes mhtropoleis synexizoyn nanai)
sta xeria twn entonws protestantizontwn parekklhsiastikwn organwsewn. Mono
ap otan mphke o Iero0eos Blaxos epikefalhs arxisan kapws na strwnoyn ta
pragmata... Dystyxws, den htan (.h. kai einai se kapoies perioxes) ka0' hmas
ta kathxhtika . Ka0 hmas einai h hmetera paideia, Basilh, oxi h 3enoferth ki
epibablhmenh.
>Kala ta leei o filosofos soy.
Cyxiatros einai o p.Filo0eos....
Alla yparxoyn kai alloi poy lene
>alla:
>
>"H ekklhsiastikh paradosh gnwrizei plh8os monaxwn poy apefygan na
>ikanopoihsoyn kai stoixiwdhs akoma swmatikes anagkes, gia na
>kallierghsoyn thn tapeinwsh kai na kyriarxhsoyn sta pa8h.."
>".. Etsi syxna parathrhtai entonh apostrofh pros to swma kai
>anazhthsh tyranikwn me8odwn gia ton ypopiasmo toy wste na
>8anatw8ei h amartia poy katoikei mesa toy kai na apodesmeytei h
>psyxei apo thn paxylh sarka poy thn peribalei, gia na mporesei,
>opoios po8ei thn teleiothta, na mimh8ei apo twra thn aswmatikh
>zwh twn agelwn."
> Kai synexizei (ti legame gia to apwles8en orxeofylakio
>toy Wrigenh?): "Ayth thn epoxh, h ejarsh twn idewdwn ths
>agnohtas, ths par8enIas kai o ekoysios eynoxismos stoys andres
>htan idietaira diadedomenos" (1)
Kat arxas o p. Filo0eos milaei gia laikoys, esy gia monaxoys. Eteron
ekateron, oydemia sxesis, allo nayths allo kanthlanafths klp klp. Oi monaxoi
biwnoyn ton erwta me ton 0eo (Ignatios o 0eoforos : O emos Erws estayrwtai)
kai den 3erw pws einai... Oyte mporw na katalabw thn me0e3h toys. Omws enas
filos monaxos syni0izei na leei pws, opws otan emeis eimaste erwteymenoi,
mas kobetai h ore3h, den skeptomaste tipote allo para to erwmeno proswpo,
3enyxtame me prosmonh, oneireyomaste thn agkalia toy, etsi ki oi monaxoi,
nhsteyoyn, proseyxontai,agrypnoyn kai prosmenoyn thn xarh Toy. Oso gia ta
peri eynoyxismoy klp, prin oi pateres (ela, mh 0ymwneis, de ftaiw, etsi
einai) orisoyn kapoia plaisia, o yperballwn zhlos odhgoyse se a-diakrites
energeies.
>Ti einai ayta Lamprinh, papika? Epishs par8enIa kai eynoyxismos
>pane dipla-dipla..
H par0eni'a Basilh den exei na kanei me to sex mono, oyte kyriarxa. Einai
dekades pragmata. H par0enia' exei na kanei me to sex.
Kai synexizw:
>
>Akoma kai M. Basileios fronei oti "to keteklhskos toy swmatos kai
>h ths egkrateias epan8oysa wxria" apoteloyn xarakthristhka toy
>gnhsioy xristianoy (2).
>Alh8eia ti 8a elege o megas an kapoios toy elege oti einai
>akoma pio xlwmos epeidh mazi me th nhsteia to rixnei kai sto
>gamhsi? Diafwnoyn edw oi patriarxes? Mhpws lew..
>Alla ta ejhgoyn ayta alloi:
>"h apostrofh pros to swma exei to ejhs nohma gia to Xristiano:
>na ekfrasei ton po8o toy na mimh8ei ton Xristo mesa sthn
>esxatologikh atmosfaira" (1).
>Alla o Xristos htan par8ena! Otan loipon o xristianos paleyei na
>toy moiasei...bingo!
Koita, o erwtas einai eylogia ki ayto to lene OLOI oi pateres. Mpergeyesai
keimena poy apey0ynontai se monaxoys, poy nai allo. Twra, ki h egkrateia
einai areth syndedemenh me th nhsteia, alla einai mia areth apo polles, kai
den swzei opwsdhpote... O egkraths Farisaios einai poy trwei to pio xontro
mpinelo apo ton Xristo(Oyai ymin klp). Ara, shmasia exei pws biwneis th
sxesh soy me to Xristo prwtarxika.Egkrateia, Eleos, ola ta alla einai
parepomena. O agios Symewn o dia Xriston Salos etrwge mprizola thn megalh
Pempth, mphke gymnos sta gynaikeia loytra kai polla alla (yperoxos bios BTW)
apla kai mono gia na krinei m ayton ton tropo ypokrisies typoy "eimai
egkraths ara swzomai, des me!". Ola exoyn th 0esh toys. O Xristos htan
par0enos , nai, alla ekane parea me poly atakta paidia;-) . Ki epine,
glentage, tragoydoyse, ebaze tis fwnes, ki ola ta wraia. Poios paleyei pws
na toy moiasei? Se ti? Edw arxizoyn ta h0ikistika, poy toylaxiston oso kairo
diabazw toys pateres, den ta brhka poy0ena...
>Alloi omws lene alla:
>"H nhsteia xarakthrizetai ws 8emelios areths kai o xarakthrismos
>ths ginetai eykola katanohtos otan lhf8ei yp' opsh oti apoblepei
>sthn kalliergeia ths tapeinwshs, poy einai bash ka8e areths." (3)
>
>Ti 8a elege o parapanw an kapoios toy proteine sex kai nhsteia?
Katse re Basilh ... H nhsteia einai proairetikh. An 0es... Ki o Xrysostomos
ston kathxhtiko logo ths Anastasews (mh pas katey0eian sth mageiritsa mia
fora, re sy;-) to leei oti koinwnoyn "nhsteysantes kai mh nhsteysantes". Kai
diabazete se oles tis or0odo3es ekklhsies oloy toy kosmoy. An omws
apofasiseis na nhsteyseis , eley0era th boylhsei, e, monos soy to
apofasizeis. Alla ki an spaseis th nhsteia , me opoiondhpote tropo(faghto,
0ymos, sex klp) mporeis na 3anarxiseis otan esy to epi0ymeis....
>Kai en pash periptwsh kapoios eprepe na pei thn apopsh toy
>Xrysostomoy sthn Maria thn Aigyptia, h opoia meta apo bion
>eklhton apofashse na thn kanei gia th erhmo gia na proseyxetai
>kai na sygxwre8ei. H kakomoira omws eixe kayles, idiws ta bradia:
>"Synebaine na perasw mia nyxta kai mia mera pesmenh ekei sto xwma
>kai den anasykwnomoyn prin na me skepasei storgika me th lampsh toy
>ekeino to glyko fws poy skorpize toys tyranikoys logismoys" (4)
O ka0enas metafrazei analoga me tis empeiries toy ayto poy diabazei.....
>Syn oti agnooyme to poio shmantiko: to paron.
ayto to e0eses s allo mail, opote ekei ki h apanthsh....
>A, kai gia na mhn jexniwmaste: ta osa wraia lene oi "pateres" gia ton
>erwta klp, einai PANTA mesa sta plaisia toy gamoy.
Oxi,kaneis la0os. Einai e3w ap to plaisio toy egwismoy... Alla 0elei poly
magkia na mhn epibebaiwnesai kai nasai apolytws en sthn enwsh soy me ton
allo....
>
>Meta timhs
>Vasilakis Fykos
Kai mia kai kapoioi syzhtoyn peri ellhnikhs epitrecte moy: to swsto einai
stO plaisiO ki oxi sta plaisia....
r.L.
Lambrini Thoma
> Xwris kamia diaOesh alla sta parapavw les ligo polu oti o BarOolwmaios
>eipe sto eurwkoivoboulio oti orOodo3ia dexetai thv omofulofilia!!!
>Oxi giati ama auto les kala Oa kaveis va 3avadiabaseis thv phgh sou kai
>va eleg3eis thv egkurothta ths giati egw 3erw oti oi klhrikoi eivai
>evavtiov asuzhthti tetoiwv faivomevwv.Mou faivetai avhkousto oti egive
>tetoia dhlwsh.H ekklhsia Oewrei thv evwsh duo avOrwpwv me skopo thv
>dhmiourgia apogovwv kai thv allhlosthri3h tous sthv katavohsh tou
>euaggeliou kai tou logou tou Oeou.H omofulofilia katadikazetai pavtelws
>kai Oewreitai megisth sarkikh amartia.Twra osov afora ta peri apogovwv
>kai ta epiteugmata ths episthmhs de Oelw sxolia h ekklhsia ta aporriptei
>kathgorhmatikws opws aporriptei kai tis ektrwseis kai gevika tetoies
>epembaseis ths episthmhs sthv avOrwpivh fush!!!
Eisai sobaros? To idio einai to profylaktiko me thn ektrwsh? Koita na
deis... Kai poia ekklhsia katadikazei thn profyla3h? H dikh mas? Poy todes
ayto grammeno, gia pes moy...
Kai, oxi den bgainei oti o Bart egkrinei thn omofylofylia. H erwthsh, poy
eixe ginei kai ston Papa, aforoyse eterofylofylikes sxeseis. Afoy den yphrxe
h erwthsh (dioti to mail htan apanthsh se allo poy mallon den eides) mallon
ay0aireta ebgales ta symperasmata soy, ki einai kai la0os symperasmata, bebaia.
Oso gia tis amarties, ta peri megistwn ki elaxistwn boleyoyn polloys.
Shmasia exei ti apotelei pa0os kai poia morfh exei h metanoia gia mas.
> XAIRETW DHMHTRHS
r.L.