Inter-racial Marriages
Henry T Robertson
>Such marriages are definitely not viable. As we all know,
>it is impossible for people of different races to understand
>each other, and the physical differences make it almost
>impossible for them to successfully copulate. It has been
>shown in studies that interacial couples who are foolish
>enough to even attempt such a union face a lifetime of
>loneliness, strife, and sexual frustration. It has also been
>shown in recent studies that 99.6% of such couples can
>not agree on what to eat for breakfast. And should nature
>be kind enough to allow an intersection of sexual apparatus,
>their offspring - while cute - are genetically disadvantaged.
>Some interacial marriage partners have had painful and
>embarrassing surgery in order to maintain even a sham
>of a marital relationship.
>(How "I'm doing research project on..." postings do we
>get in week? Anybody else's patience wearing thin?
>I'm beginning to feel like a rat in a laboratory.)
On a serious note, has there been any studies done on gender ratios
of the offspring of interracial marriages? It seems that 60% or more of
Eurasians I have met to date were female, and I'm wondering if there is
in fact a biochemical reason for this. Or is it that for whatever
reasons Eurasian males are more difficult to notice?
A net-friend named Linda Absher talked about this when I met her for lunch.
le...@aecom.yu.edu
In article <3ht65k$2...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, Blamby <bla...@aol.com>
wrote:
>Such marriages are definitely not viable. As we all know,
>it is impossible for people of different races to understand
>each other, and the physical differences make it almost
>impossible for them to successfully copulate. It has been
>shown in studies that interacial couples who are foolish
>enough to even attempt such a union face a lifetime of
>loneliness, strife, and sexual frustration. It has also been
>shown in recent studies that 99.6% of such couples can
>not agree on what to eat for breakfast. And should nature
>be kind enough to allow an intersection of sexual apparatus,
>their offspring - while cute - are genetically disadvantaged.
>Some interacial marriage partners have had painful and
>embarrassing surgery in order to maintain even a sham
>of a marital relationship.
>On a serious note, has there been any studies done on gender ratios
>of the offspring of interracial marriages? It seems that 60% or more of
>Eurasians I have met to date were female, and I'm wondering if there is
>in fact a biochemical reason for this?
It is perhaps worthwhile pointing out that Bauer, Fischer and Lenz
"Menschliche Erblichkeitslehre" (Munich, 1927) [Human Heredity, trans. E.
&C. Paul, 1931] discussed the deficiencies of such unions fifty years ago:
"The half-caste or Eurasian offspring of unions between Europeans
and Mongols in the Far East are described as being light-minded and
happy-go-lucky. Here, once more, it is chiefly the light-minded
individuals of both the racial grops who enter into such unions and
procreate half-breeds...resulting in a inferior type mentally and morally".
(pg. 691)
Which is why, presumably, they (and their parents) can't agree on
breakfast, and don't mind the surgery.
There is some evidence that Asian women have offspring sex ratios rather
more biased to female than European women; it is supposed that this is a
maternal effect, that is, independent of race of sire. W.H.James has put
several reviews on regulation of human sex ratio in J. Theor. Biol. over
the last few years. The effect, if it exists, is small and would not
account for an impression of 60% Eurasian females. The effect of
historical patterns of female-biased infanticide (common in Asia) upon the
evolution of primary sex ratio, is discussed by Magnus Nordborg and M.
Feldman in two recent papers in the same journal and, I think, J. Pop.
Biol.
Armand Leroi
Terry Hardig
> In article <3ht65k$2...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, Blamby <bla...@aol.com> wrote:
>
[Such unbelievable drivel that I can't be certain it wasn't facetious
deleted]
"Studies of genetic variation, then, indicate that even the most
different of peoples diverged very recently in human history; that there
is overall slight difference among the 'races' except in those FEW [my
emphasis] obvious morphological features by which they are usually
recognized; that many geographically variable features do not correspond
to racial boundaries; and that unless there is evidence to the contrary,
THERE IS LITTLE REASON TO ASSUME [my emphasis] that traits other than
skin color, hair form, and the like will vary substantially among
'races.' For example, there is no reason to expect mental abilities to
vary among 'races,' any more than protein-encoding loci or the structure
of the hand--EVEN THOUGH WHITE EUROPEANS HAVE ASSUMED SUCH DIFFERENCE,
AND FOR 200 YEARS SOUGHT EVIDENCE OF THE MORAL AND INTELLECTUAL
INFERIORITY OF THE RACES THEY HAD TYPOLOGICALLY DEFINED [my emphasis]."
--Douglas J. Futuyma
Evolutionary Biology, 2d edition
Sinauer Assoc., Inc., Sunderland, MA.
I'm not certain what your hidden agenda entails, nor what feelings of
inadequacy you may be trying to assauge, but you denigrate this entire
forum with your weeping pustule of a brain.
Mike Hardig
Dept of Botany
Washington State University
o993...@wsunix.wsu.edu
Henry T Robertson
Terry Hardig <o993...@wsunix.wsu.edu> wrote:
>>blamb wrote:
>I'm not certain what your hidden agenda entails, nor what feelings of
>inadequacy you may be trying to assauge, but you denigrate this entire
>forum with your weeping pustule of a brain.
Whoa, I seem to have quoted him out of context. He was just reacting to
the many queries by obnoxious researchers on i.r. marriages we get every
week. He is in an interracial marriage.
Anyway, to repeat my question... has there been any studies to show differences
in gender ratio of offspring of certain kinds of i.r. marriages? I've
heard that the pH of vaginal fluids can affect the probability of the
offspring's gender, so could genetic diversity affect the outcome?
Bill Lambert
> [Such unbelievable drivel that I can't be certain it wasn't facetious
> deleted]
You should have gone with your instincts, and not try
to think too much.
Henry T Robertson
Deborah Lynn Schaffer <dsch...@pen.k12.va.us> wrote:
>Henry T Robertson (htr...@pitt.edu ) writes:
>>
>> On a serious note, has there been any studies done on gender ratios
>> of the offspring of interracial marriages? It seems that 60% or more of
>> Eurasians I have met to date were female, and I'm wondering if there is
>> in fact a biochemical reason for this. Or is it that for whatever
>> reasons Eurasian males are more difficult to notice?
>have met more males, maybe 75%. And if you came to my home,
>you'd meet one of each gender!
I guess heterosexuality could have something to do with it, I don't look
at men too closely. :)
Henry T Robertson
Perhaps your comment illustrates the perception gap between interracial
individuals, who seem themselves as they are, vs. parents of interracial
children who are prejudiced towards seeing interracial individuals as
"children". I don't think of ii's as children any more than I think of
Whites or Asians as "children". Given that I am 23, my perception may
be a bit young-adult centered; children play no part in my life yet.
Deborah Lynn Schaffer
> Perhaps your comment illustrates the perception gap between interracial
> individuals, who seem themselves as they are, vs. parents of interracial
> children who are prejudiced towards seeing interracial individuals as
> "children". I don't think of ii's as children any more than I think of
> Whites or Asians as "children". Given that I am 23, my perception may
> be a bit young-adult centered; children play no part in my life yet.
>
individuals as "children". In light of the discussion of
interracial marriages and their progeny, and being a partner in
such a marriage with two young children, I automatically
thought of my own situation.
In the community where I live, there are many interracial
couples with children. But at the moment, I can think of only
one interracial (biracial?) adult. BTW, that adult is male.
Deborah
Deborah Lynn Schaffer
> In article <D4443...@pen.k12.va.us>,
> Deborah Lynn Schaffer <dsch...@pen.k12.va.us> wrote:
> >Henry T Robertson (htr...@pitt.edu ) writes:
> >>
> >> On a serious note, has there been any studies done on gender ratios
> >> of the offspring of interracial marriages? It seems that 60% or more of
> >> Eurasians I have met to date were female, and I'm wondering if there is
> >> in fact a biochemical reason for this. Or is it that for whatever
> >> reasons Eurasian males are more difficult to notice?
> >I'd say neither - just chance (but I'm not a statistician). I
> >have met more males, maybe 75%. And if you came to my home,
> >you'd meet one of each gender!
>
> I guess heterosexuality could have something to do with it, I don't look
> at men too closely. :)
>
Rosemary Lyndall
> In the community where I live, there are many interracial
> couples with children. But at the moment, I can think of only
> one interracial (biracial?) adult. BTW, that adult is male.
I'm sure most people you look at are actually "inter-racial". The
British, from which a large proportion of white Americans, Australians,
Californians and New Zealanders are descended, are a mongrel lot. They
descended from Picks, Scots, Celts, Gauls, Romans and some Nordic races. A
large proportion of the riff-raff and misfits then migrated to the
afore-mentioned countries (my own ancestoral Australians were either
deported petty criminals or cruel colonial despots) and proceeded to
inter-breed with the locals. Many "whites" are part native and many
"blacks" are brindled. This probably accounts for the typical yellowish
look of the sterotypic white American and the faded African look of the
typical Afro-American.
If the genetic rule of "hybred vigour" applies then the combination
individuals should be genetically superior. Which flies in the face of
the beliefs of ignorant racists. :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosemary Lyndall Rosemary from DownUnder _--_|\
Clinical Neuro-psychologist lyn...@haywire.DIALix.oz.au Perth / \
Perth, Western Australia lyn...@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au -->\_.--._/
------------------------------------------------------------------------v-
sz...@utdallas.edu
> If the genetic rule of "hybred vigour" applies then the combination
> individuals should be genetically superior. Which flies in the face of
> the beliefs of ignorant racists. :-)
Ahhh, but the rule of "hybred vigour" is not a rule, and in any case does
not apply to the human phenotypes known as "races." To put this in
simple (Maybe even slightly simplistic) terms, hybrid vigor refers to
genotype, and there is no observable correlation between phenotype (race)
and genotype.
Think about it in another way: there is no guarantee that an interracial
child will be the product of a larger gene pool than a monoracial child.
Adam "in the social sciences college, not biology" Pressler
--
"'Texas political ethics' is not an oxymoron. Our guys have 'em. They
just have an overdeveloped sense of extenuating circumstances." (M. Ivins)
Adam Pressler sz...@utdallas.edu D.B.A.B.
Henry T Robertson
Rosemary Lyndall <lyn...@haywire.DIALix.COM> wrote:
>inter-breed with the locals. Many "whites" are part native and many
>"blacks" are brindled. This probably accounts for the typical yellowish
>look of the sterotypic white American and the faded African look of the
>typical Afro-American.
>If the genetic rule of "hybred vigour" applies then the combination
>individuals should be genetically superior. Which flies in the face of
>the beliefs of ignorant racists. :-)
Isn't it interesting then, that the so-called typically mongrelized Americans/
Australians are also the ignorant racists?
Henry T Robertson
David Nicolson <dnic...@osf1.gmu.edu> wrote:
>In article <3idi8l$d...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, htr...@pitt.edu (Henry T
>neither is ignorance.
>Would that this were not the case...
If it was true that hybrid vigor offspring invariably came out with
enlightened attitudes toward race, life would be easy. If Adolf
Hitler and Malcolm X should be taken up as examples of hybrid vigor,
it would seem multiracials are all the more prejudiced. :)
chakravorty bonnie jean
chakravorty bonnie jean
notion does hold some popular appearl - "Holocaust due to mad half breed who
can't accept his Jewishness" kind of throws the blame back on the victims, far
more comforting a thought than an identification of the social, cultural, and
other factors that contributed tothe "final solution". Anyway, I'm reading a
fascinating book on the fates and treatment ofHitler's "third race", Jews with
some proportion of German blood. Hitler and cronies measured race on a ratio
scale and concocted various degrees of "misclings". a mischling's treametn
(and yes, it was stamped on one's papers) depended on many factors including
phu physical appearance, usefulness to the Nazis 9po (possession of special
skills or talents), favors owed to the German side of the mischling's
family, etc. The book discusses the psyhcological turmoil experi4enced by
these people, and how some usedtheir status to help Jews, how others
were concerend with self-preseservation (and hey, what's wrong with
that), etc. Many went on to become leaders inthe Jewish community. Of interest
to this group, the author discusses how Jewish spouses of Germans wer e treated.
Again
treament varied, but the Jewish party was almost certain to undergo
sterilization (if of child bearing age).
Mark London
->In article <3ig7as$e...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
->chakravorty bonnie jean <bcha...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
->> How does Adolph Hitler fit into this?
->
->As a half-Jew? He certainly had leadership skills, so was he an example
->of hybrid vigor?
->
This thread is being crossposted to sci.med. Can it be moved off there?
Thanks!
Mark London
M...@PFC.MIT.EDU
David Nicolson
Robertson) wrote:
I'm afraid racism is not restricted to ANY particular area or group, and
neither is ignorance.
Would that this were not the case...
Dave
--
David T. Nicolson
dnic...@gmu.edu
Henry T Robertson
As a half-Jew? He certainly had leadership skills, so was he an example
of hybrid vigor?
litherland kathryn j
> How does Adolph Hitler fit into this?
Well, you know the old saying "It just isn't a party until someone loses an
eye?"
Well, it just isn't a lively internet discussion until someone brings up
the Holocaust.
--
Kathy Litherland | People make their own history, |
Dept. of Anthropology | but they do not make it exactly | No hacemos el amor;
U. of Illinois | as they please. | El nos hace.
lit...@uiuc.edu | --K. Marx |
Henry T Robertson
Zhirinovsky also evidently changed his name from a Jewish one to fit in
better to mainstream Russian society. As some white supremacists would
have it, Nazism and Christianity are both Jewish conspiracies to get the
white race to turn on itself. Then again, other white supremacists are
pro-Christian/pro-Nazi.
>notion does hold some popular appearl - "Holocaust due to mad half breed who
>can't accept his Jewishness" kind of throws the blame back on the victims, far
>more comforting a thought than an identification of the social, cultural, and
>other factors that contributed tothe "final solution". Anyway, I'm reading a
It also brings a strong reaction in self-hating pure-white PC liberals who
prefer to think that whites are the source of all evil. :)
>fascinating book on the fates and treatment ofHitler's "third race", Jews with
>some proportion of German blood. Hitler and cronies measured race on a ratio
>scale and concocted various degrees of "misclings". a mischling's treametn
When the Japanese Imperial Army invaded Indonesia, an ethnically diverse
nation, they classified the
citizens in 8 different categories depending on the supposed desirability
of their heritage.
graeme
>genotype, and there is no observable correlation between phenotype (race)
>and genotype.
You're pulling my leg right?