RE: 10 Reasons I don't Like Bike Lanes
John Cock
Bike lanes are an imperfect solution and there is much validity in this post (Pam, is this your narrative?). However, the post implies that separation of bikes and motor vehicles is not warranted. I think it is great for those who are willing to bike that way. I bike that way sometimes, but not when I’m with my kids and my wife and mother would never bike that way.
It also depends on the volume and speed of motor vehicles on the roadway. If we take this idea to its logical extreme, bicyclists should be sharing the lane with cars every roadway, including on 1-77. Are you up for that? Or would you prefer a more separated bikeway when you are sharing the lane with cars in this condition? Or Independence Boulevard? Or Harris Blvd? etc.
Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.
John Cock
Principal, Southeast Region
Alta Planning + Design
108 S. Main Street, Suite B (physical)
PO Box 2453 (mailing), Davidson NC 28036
ph: 704-255-6200 (office); 704-968-5053 (mobile)
www.altaplanning.com
transportation | recreation | innovation
"Creating active communities where bicycling and walking are safe, healthy, fun, and normal daily activities"
Alta is a Platinum level Bicycle-Friendly Business
From: bikem...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bikem...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Murray
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 4:43 PM
To: bikem...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Charlotte Minneapolis Tour
http://cltspokespeople.org/?p=502
Let me know what you think about this?
From: bikem...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bikem...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Cock
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 4:08 PM
To: bikem...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Mary Newsom; jeancr...@altaplanning.com
Subject: Charlotte Minneapolis Tour
http://www.thestate.com/2014/06/19/3517134/charlotte-leaders-try-out-minneapolis.html
Charlotte Chamber trip to Minneapolis, top level Bike Friendly Community, even made the Columbia paper!
Claire Fallon’s quote is interesting. . .
John Cock
Principal, Southeast Region
Alta Planning + Design
108 S. Main Street, Suite B (physical)
PO Box 2453 (mailing), Davidson NC 28036
ph: 704-255-6200 (office); 704-968-5053 (mobile)
www.altaplanning.com
transportation | recreation | innovation
"Creating active communities where bicycling and walking are safe, healthy, fun, and normal daily activities"
Alta is a Platinum level Bicycle-Friendly Business
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Mark Ortiz
I generally don’t ride in the middle of the lane as a default position when traffic is heavy, and I still oppose bike lanes. I do support wide outside lanes.
Bike lanes are not an imperfect solution. They are a problem, for everybody. Adding buffers and barriers just makes the problems worse. And this is not really a matter of the interests of capable cyclists versus less skilled ones. Due to the problems so clearly stated in the linked article, bike lanes in fact do not serve the interests of those cyclists most likely to support them. On the contrary, they most endanger the least capable and knowledgeable, because these cyclists don’t know enough to ignore them when necessary.
I do not oppose the basic idea of mixed use paths for beginning and casual cyclists, and as cut-throughs to increase secondary street connectivity, but I do think it’s time to resolve the questions of what traffic laws apply on these, and whose job it is to enforce them, before proceeding with further building of these facilities.
Mark Ortiz
PS: John, when are you guys at Alta going to log your first clean commute?
John Cock
Mark Ortiz
My own commute takes me south out of Concord on Roberta, then south on 49 to UNCC.
I do use the shoulder on 49, where I deem it appropriate, and where there is one. Only the first foot or so right of the fog line is usable, due mainly to debris, as with bike lanes most of the time. At turn lanes and feeder lanes, I don’t use the shoulder. 49 would be improved by moving the lane divider lines over a foot or two. It would add no impermeable area, and cost next to nothing.
I would say the same regarding Harris. In both cases, a 14’ lane is preferable to a 15’ surface with a bike lane, because it actually results in more usable space and less confusion at intersections. Neither is as desirable as a lower-speed secondary through route. Southbound, I have one for about half a mile in Harrisburg, and I use it. Northbound going home, I generally don’t, because I would have to make a left turn where I get no left green arrow and there is no turn pocket.
Independence has paralleling lower-speed through routes. I generally prefer those over Independence. I would say a wide outside lane would improve Independence, and a bike lane would not.
Where 49 crosses 485, there are three lanes each way across the overpass. The right lane starts as a feeder lane, then becomes a through lane across the overpass. As soon as you get across the overpass, the right lane becomes a right turn only lane. Here, I go across the overpass in the left portion of the right lane, then switch to the adjacent lane. I generally control that lane then, because it’s about to become RTO too. I’m glad nobody has tried to put a bike lane there. I’m also glad North Carolina only requires a slow vehicle to be in the rightmost lane then available and not as far right as practicable. I wouldn’t call this a bike-friendly bit of road, but any attempt to segregate bicycles or push them to the right would make it worse, not better.
Northbound, going home, I turn left off of 49 in Harrisburg onto Roberta. Here, I will generally control the right lane as much as three blocks before my turn, and merge to the left lane at least a block before the intersection. If a motorist needs to get by me at that time, they can pass in the right lane. Finally, I get into the left turn pocket, which I will control. I’m sure glad there’s no bike lane on this stretch, especially a lane diet and and separated bike lane.
If there were a low-speed, shady, two-lane through route from Harrisburg to UNCC, I’d probably use that. That would be preferable to an MUP, because it would have mostly debris-free pavement, rules of the road, and an enforcement mechanism. It would also shorten trip distances for some motorists. If there were not that but there were an MUP, I’d consider using that, but it sure would be nice if I didn’t have to slow way down and hold my breath every time I encountered another user, like I do on greenways now. It truly is literal anarchy on those things as matters stand. Nobody knows what anybody’s going to do, or even what anybody’s supposed to do.
As for Interstates, it is DOT policy in most of the country to make sure that secondary through routes serve all destinations available by freeway. I would like to see a similar policy with respect to expressways. In some western states, e.g. New Mexico and Arizona, I’ve seen bicycles allowed on the Interstate. They generally use the shoulder. This works okay because the intersections are about 20 miles apart, and I guess it’s necessary because there are no nearby low-speed through roads.
Mark Ortiz
John Cock
Mark Ortiz
Why use the shoulder at all? To facilitate overtaking. Both travel lanes are full a lot of the time, and it’s a courtesy to the 9’ trucks in the 12’ right lane. It’s not that I think the stripe does much of anything. If the right lane were 14’ instead, there would more swept surface for all of us, and even the widest trucks could go right by. I also wouldn’t have to choose between moving left into a 12’ lane or being on the wrong side of the stripe at RTO and feeder lanes.
Same on a city street. Better to have a wider surface, and no stripe. More clean road width, less confusion at intersections, and more freedom to adjust lane position according to conditions.