RE: [BC] light mounting position discussion

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Marty Goodman

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Mar 10, 2007, 12:08:49 PM3/10/07

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I happen to hold with Francis Cooke and those who feel there's in general
nothing wrong with putting a primary headlamp on one's handlebars. That
that is NOT "too high". However...

I now ride a short wheelbase recumbent bike (Bachetta Aero titanium). With
that riding configuration, a light on the handlebars will splash light onto
my feet, refleting it back at me and irritating me and disrupting night
vision.

For that situation, a lamp mounted lower and in front of my feet... on the
boom that mounts the bottom bracket... offers a better placement for the
lamp. Note that the issue here is that my feet are directly in the path of
much of the light, not that the light is too high per se. Actually, it is
possible on a high bottom bracket SWB bike like the Aero to mount the light
so that it's nearly as high as it would be mounted on the handlebars. Or
one can use a different mounting bracket for the boom to mount it somewhat
lower.

---marty

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From: <bikec...@topica.com>
To: <bikec...@topica.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 6:50 AM
Subject: Digest for bikec...@topica.com, issue 1978

-- Topica Digest --

Re: Best LED front lights for use with dynamos
By Mic...@mgagnon.net

Re: Best LED front lights for use with dynamos
By waldi...@shaw.ca

Light Placement [Was: Best LED front lights for use with dynamos]
By li...@jkassen.org

Re[2]: Best LED front lights for use with dynamos
By fra...@aukadia.net

Re: Re[2]: Best LED front lights for use with dynamos
By headmaster.al...@gmail.com

Re: Light Placement [Was: Best LED front lights for use with dynamos]
By b...@sutterfields.us

RE: Best LED front lights for use with dynamos
By mwi...@juniper.net

Re: Best LED front lights for use with dynamos
By dani...@msu.edu

RE: Best LED front lights for use with dynamos
By mwi...@juniper.net

more on light power
By mwi...@juniper.net

------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:38:39 -0500
From: Michel Gagnon <Mic...@mgagnon.net>
Subject: Re: [BC] Best LED front lights for use with dynamos

bc-...@pardo.net a inscrit / wrote :
>> [I don't care about lighting the trees...]
>>
> ...
>
> Similarly, my experience is a bright narrow spot on a winding road is
> worse than a dim narrow spot on the same road, as the light illuminates
> what is off the side of the road and keeps me from seeing where I am
> going

Sorry to get away from light sources, but what about a bracket that
would be sturdy, keep the light permanently attached to the bike, but
that will allow one to turn the light 10-20 degrees off axis if
necessary? Many battery headlights use that kind of attachment, albeit
with a quick release, alas.

Michel Gagnon mailto:mic...@MGagnon.net
Montréal (Québec, Canada) http://mgagnon.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 07:30:37 -0800
From: John Laidlaw <waldi...@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [BC] Best LED front lights for use with dynamos

Has any one considered WHERE the light is mounted?
I've noted that handle-bar mountings tend to put the light just at the
eye-level of oncoming motorists. With the advent of effective LED's, this
puts the light just where it does most damage to their vision, without
really getting more on the road for us. the inverse-square law points out
that effective illumination drops off dramatically with distance. I've
devised a bracket that mounts the lamp(s) just to the left of the front fork
crown. It's not perfect, I grant. If I were shipping front panniers, I'd
need to devise a mounting that was across the front of that - probably a
better design.
John Laidlaw
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Gagnon" <mic...@mGagnon.net>
To: <bikec...@topica.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:38 AM
Subject: Re: [BC] Best LED front lights for use with dynamos

Michel Gagnon mailto:mic...@MGagnon.net
Montréal (Québec, Canada) http://mgagnon.net

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 10:55:58 -0500
From: jake Kassen <li...@jkassen.org>
CC: bikec...@topica.com
Subject: [BC] Light Placement [Was: Best LED front lights for use with
dynamos]

John Laidlaw wrote:
>
> Has any one considered WHERE the light is mounted?
> I've noted that handle-bar mountings tend to put the light just at the
> eye-level of oncoming motorists. With the advent of effective LED's,
> this puts the light just where it does most damage to their vision,
> without really getting more on the road for us. the inverse-square law

I think this list discussed this before or perhaps it was the Randon list.

Anyway, I don't think that handlebar lights, even incorrectly aimed,
don't pose any real safety risk to oncoming motorists. If anything else
I want oncoming cars to quickly notice my light. Speaking as someone who
commutes daily in a city with many other bike commuters (Boston), I
frequently pass people with ultra-bright handlebar lights that are aimed
higher then they should be. While I notice these people, the light has
never blinded me or caused me to lose any more night vision then the
normal headlights of any other car would. For me (both as a cyclist and
when I rent a car), the bright "colored" headlights that some cars have
are much, much worst and unsafe. LED bike lights are just too small.

Of course, group night riding is another story and I find it helpful to
have lights I can quickly position downward to avoid annoying those who
I am riding with. This is more of an issue with taillights.

As for utility of placement of lights, I generally mount mine on the
handlebars to aid in quick removal to switch between bikes. I might lose
some valuable throw or range by doing this, but the lights are bright
enough for me not to be concerned. (And I ride relatively slow.)

Jake

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 23:21:19 +0000
From: Francis Cooke <fra...@aukadia.net>
Subject: Re[2]: [BC] Best LED front lights for use with dynamos

JL> I've noted that handle-bar mountings tend to put the light just at the
JL> eye-level of oncoming motorists. With the advent of effective LED's,
this
JL> puts the light just where it does most damage to their vision,

I would have thought that the higher the light is mounted, the more
you have to angle it downwards and therefore the kinder it will be to
oncoming traffic (if you really want to be kind to oncomers ;-)

I find handlebar mounting ideal, although I know a lot of people
prefer a lower mount because it shows the road in more relief.

Also I'm not sure the inverse square law strictly applies when we're
considering a light source directed via a lens and/or reflector.

Francis

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 17:28:07 -0800
From: "Gregory Leblanc" <headmaster.al...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [BC] Best LED front lights for use with dynamos

On 3/9/07, Francis Cooke <fra...@aukadia.net> wrote:
[snip]
> Also I'm not sure the inverse square law strictly applies when we're
> considering a light source directed via a lens and/or reflector.

According to the Optics major who lives with me, the inverse square
law does apply to intensity from Lambertian light sources, but does
not apply when using a collimated light source, such as a bicycle
headlight.
Greg

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 17:41:00 -0800
From: "Bob Sutterfield" <b...@sutterfields.us>
Subject: Re: [BC] Light Placement [Was: Best LED front lights for use with
dynamos]

If you're using a light to see, put it down on the fork near the hub.
The lower angle will exaggerate relief in the surface ahead. If
you're using a light to be seen, put it on the handlebar at most
motorists' eye level. My 12V MR11-C bulbs are bright enough, and cast
a broad enough beam, to accomplish both vision and visibility from the
handlebar.

When I'm standing at an intersection I either turn off my headlamp, or
angle my front wheel so I'm not casting glare into the mirrors of the
cars ahead.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 21:32:23 -0500
From: "Mike Wilson" <mwi...@juniper.net>
Subject: RE: Best LED front lights for use with dynamos

If you have an E6 secondary light, that bulb gets switched on and off
for each slow uphill. I have used mine for about 30 rides now, and it
just died.

Unlike a battery light, where I turn it on before I start, so I will
know before I start if I have an issue, this failure I did not detect
until I hit the main road. At -14C, +7F temperature, I was NOT inclined
to stop and fix. So I did the 15 miles without it.

LED is what I want with my Schmidt, thanks. Not a bulb that needs
replacing every 6 weeks. With a battery I could tolerate the bulb,
because I would be turning it on in the house or in the workplace and
could swap the bulb when I was warm. On the road bulb replacement is
something I left behind around 1988 when I stopped using the Sturmey
Dynohubs.

Tonight I try Chip Coldwell's Inoled 20.

Some of us commuters want a light to be seen and to see. From the
streets beside the overlit shopping plaza to the shaded unlit paved
descents.

Michael Wilson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 22:41:34 -0500
From: Pawel Danielewicz <dani...@msu.edu>
CC: bikec...@topica.com
Subject: Re: [BC] Best LED front lights for use with dynamos

I have been riding with halogen lamps for 8 years+, ~6 mos out of a
year, 5 days per week, 45 min/ride. In the last 6 years, for which I
have more detailed records, I have burnt a halogen bulb once. My recent
limiter has been limiting the rms power, being likely functionally
equivalent to that of E6. After I've broken the mount of Bisy, I glued
it back over locking the bulb inside. The ability to change the bulb
has been of marginal importance. At the burnout level I have
encountered, knocking the lamp or breaking or disconnecting supply cable
(>once/year) become far more important and those won't change with
switching to an LED.

Otherwise, my interest in an LED front lamp is only to the extent that
it can provide a better illumination than a halogen. That interest, on
its own, remains for me peripheral, because halogen's illumination/power
performance has been fully adequate for me. Have I been riding dark and
wide country roads, I might have an interest in broader illumination
angles than that provided by the Bisy or E6.

Pawel Danielewicz

Mike Wilson wrote:
> If you have an E6 secondary light, that bulb gets switched on and off
> for each slow uphill. I have used mine for about 30 rides now, and it
> just died.
>
> Unlike a battery light, where I turn it on before I start, so I will
> know before I start if I have an issue, this failure I did not detect
> until I hit the main road. At -14C, +7F temperature, I was NOT inclined
> to stop and fix. So I did the 15 miles without it.
>
> LED is what I want with my Schmidt, thanks. Not a bulb that needs
> replacing every 6 weeks. With a battery I could tolerate the bulb,
> because I would be turning it on in the house or in the workplace and
> could swap the bulb when I was warm. On the road bulb replacement is
> something I left behind around 1988 when I stopped using the Sturmey
> Dynohubs.
>
> Tonight I try Chip Coldwell's Inoled 20.
>
> Some of us commuters want a light to be seen and to see. From the
> streets beside the overlit shopping plaza to the shaded unlit paved
> descents.
>
> Michael Wilson
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 23:00:56 -0500
From: "Mike Wilson" <mwi...@juniper.net>
Cc: <bikec...@topica.com>
Subject: RE: [BC] Best LED front lights for use with dynamos

Pawel's bulb failure rate - 1 in 4 years - is about the rate at which I blow
taillight incandescent bulbs. WAY better than headlight bulbs, and no
incentive to change to LED. The headlight incandescent battery powered
would fail about every 100 starts. I used to average 18 mph with a peak
around 35 mph downhill. Half street-lit, half unlit.

I am doing this 4 days per week 52 weeks per year (the 4 is an average based
on holidays and the occaisional drive).

Michael Wilson
------------------
From: Pawel Danielewicz [mailto:dani...@msu.edu]

Pawel Danielewicz

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 23:14:17 -0500
From: "Mike Wilson" <mwi...@juniper.net>
Cc: <bikec...@topica.com>
Subject: more on light power

I have read the claim that going up hill you do not need as much light as
going down.

However it is much easier to see and ride around the ice patches on the
ascent if you have more light. My SON and DLumotec are not adequate to see
my driveway ice patches; my L&M Arc is. If I go over the ice patch, the
rear wheel spins and the bike stops. Not a disaster, but I want to be
riding.

If I ever get my act together on a SON light setup, it will have a small
battery charged by the SON, so I can get full light power even uphill.
Preferably not incandescent so switching on & off will not kill bulbs.

But I do like that Schmidt E6 beam. Wonderful fog light actually.

Michael Wilson

------------------------------

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