BBB v0.8 audio and video codecs support
Achilleas
I have read from previous posts that changes were performed in the
record and playback functionality in BBB v.0.8 and also changes were
performed to improve the security of joining a session.
Also, for the audio quality quoting from a previous post: "using
speex, red5phone does *no* transcoding.
None. It passes the packets straight through to FreeSWITCH, which
encodes/decodes the speex packets in native code." Thus it seems that
audio quality is being improved if I am not mistaken?
In terms of improved video quality I have read from previous posts
that the problem was the lack of support as a result of the built-in
Flash video codec; h.263 was the support I believe. Nowadays, Flash
10.3 supports H.264 and with the Stage Video API it even outperforms
Google Webm as shown in benchmark comparisons (http://
www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/Editorial/Featured-Articles/Flash-Player-10.2-More-Efficient-than-WebM-73782.aspx).
Does it mean that since Flash supports H.264 playback now, then it
will be available in the upcoming release? Is there something that
needs to be extended in terms of Red5, so that Red5 has to enable also
incoming H.264 streams from the (web)camera?
If better video quality support is not provided in v.0.8, could a
developer extend it to support better video quality and what are the
first things that we need to know before starting development?
Thanks,
Achilleas
Fred Dixon
The audio quality will improve in BigBlueButton 0.8.
The video quality will remain unchanged. Flash 10.3 will play H.264
video, the trick is encoding h.264 video. Adobe has stated they will
be providing H.264 software encoding in Flash player 11, see
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplatformruntimes/incubator/
but we (the core developers) have not tried the incubator version of
Flash 11 with BigBlueButton. We're pretty focused on getting
BigBlueButton 0.8 to beta at the moment.
> If better video quality support is not provided in v.0.8, could a
> developer extend it to support better video quality and what are the
> first things that we need to know before starting development?
BigBlueButton is an open source project, so a developer who is
determined could start exploring whether Flash 11 will work with
BigBlueButton. To get started, see
http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/GettingStarted
and
http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/FAQ#Contributing_to_BigBlueButton
Regards,... Fred
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BigBlueButton-dev" group.
> To post to this group, send email to bigblueb...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bigbluebutton-...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bigbluebutton-dev?hl=en.
>
>
Achilleas
Thanks for this information. I guess then the H.264/AVC SW Encode
feature of Flash 11 for camera encoding might do the trick.
We have just installed BBB server, setup a development environment and
done some minor tweaks. I will further look into the information you
provided and find out how and if we can proceed with Flash 11 support
for BBB.
One more question for you Fred. I guess from your BBB experience you
can provide me with initial information before I go on and search
further.
Regarding Webm (http://www.webmproject.org/) and WebRTC (http://
sites.google.com/site/webrtc/), I also read from previous posts and
from the web that they can serve as alternatives for providing better
quality video for BBB. Can they be used for BBB or does Flash (being
an integral part of BBB) provides a better development direction?
Thanks,
Achilleas
On Jul 6, 5:52 pm, Fred Dixon <ffdi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Achilleas,
>
> The audio quality will improve in BigBlueButton 0.8.
>
> The video quality will remain unchanged. Flash 10.3 will play H.264
> video, the trick is encoding h.264 video. Adobe has stated they will
> be providing H.264 software encoding in Flash player 11, see
>
> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplatformruntimes/incubator/
>
> but we (the core developers) have not tried the incubator version of
> Flash 11 with BigBlueButton. We're pretty focused on getting
> BigBlueButton 0.8 to beta at the moment.
>
> > If better video quality support is not provided in v.0.8, could a
> > developer extend it to support better video quality and what are the
> > first things that we need to know before starting development?
>
> BigBlueButton is an open source project, so a developer who is
> determined could start exploring whether Flash 11 will work with
> BigBlueButton. To get started, see
>
> http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/GettingStarted
>
> and
>
> Regards,... Fred
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Achilleas <achilleas...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > I have read from previous posts that changes were performed in the
> > record and playback functionality in BBB v.0.8 and also changes were
> > performed to improve the security of joining a session.
>
> > Also, for the audio quality quoting from a previous post: "using
> > speex, red5phone does *no* transcoding.
> > None. It passes the packets straight through to FreeSWITCH, which
> > encodes/decodes the speex packets in native code." Thus it seems that
> > audio quality is being improved if I am not mistaken?
>
> > In terms of improved video quality I have read from previous posts
> > that the problem was the lack of support as a result of the built-in
> > Flash video codec; h.263 was the support I believe. Nowadays, Flash
> > 10.3 supports H.264 and with the Stage Video API it even outperforms
> > Google Webm as shown in benchmark comparisons (http://
Fred Dixon
WebM is a codec (VP8). WebRTC is both libraries, protocol, and VP8
codec. BigBlueButton uses the red5 server, which implements the Flash
real-time messaging protocol (RTMP) and the sorensen video codec.
While these are specific to Flash, you don't need to use a Flash
client to connect to BigBlueButton. The BigBlueButton android
project uses Java libraries for RTMP. See
http://bigbluebutton-blog.blogspot.com/2011/05/first-public-release-of-bigbluebutton.html
While WebRTC includes the VP8 codec and also libraries for
peer-to-peer video conferencing. Specifically, it provides the
protocol for establishing the connection between two browsers, an
interface layer for accessing the computer's webcam and audio, and
Javascript libraries for controlling this abstraction layer. In
short, WebRTC aims to make it easier for two browsers supporting
WebRTC to make a video call between them. No Flash plugin required.
> can [WebRTC] serve as alternatives for providing better
> quality video for BBB.
WebRTC is not using the RTMP codec, so it would be unable to connect
to a BigBlueButton server. RTMP is a proprietary, and it was the hard
work by the red5 team to provide an open source implementation. As
WebRTC is peer-to-peer, the packets do not go through a central
server, thus making it far easier for developers to create video chat
applications.
In BigBlueButton, all video and audio streams go through the red5
server. In this way, we can offer multi-party communication and
(soon) with record and playback.
We're watching how these technologies evolve. For BigBlueButton,
we're focused on real-time distance education. We're want to evolve
the architecture of BigBlueButton (both client and server) to become a
modular platform on which others can mix and match components and
build new real-time communications applications. The platform can
take core of chores such as providing an infrastructure for recording
the collaboration.
Over time, BigBlueButton could support other real-time messaging
protocols, or, use gateways to transparently convert from one protocol
to another. We already convert from one codec to another:
BigBlueButton uses (a heavily modified version) the red5phone to
provide a gateway between nellymoser and mlaw. This enables us to
bridge the user into a voice conference in Asterisk or FreeSWITCH.
As you can see above, like the BigBlueButton android project, there's
*lots* of fertile ground for other developers to explore ideas for
integration. For the moment, the best bet for high quality video
user-generated video is the upcoming Flash Player 11.
Regards,... Fred
Walter Tak
Encoding or 'recording from a webcam' however, from the Flash client, is brand-new ( only in Flash 10.4 yet (?) "beta" ) and so far will
probably only be supported by Flash Media Server 4 since only Adobe has access to how the encoding works in the new beta player.
See http://www.bytearray.org/?p=3066 :
Quote:
H.264/AVC SW Encode for camera encoding — Build richer and more engaging applications with improved real time and non-real time (web-casting, and live casting) communications performance. Industry standard support results in improved compatibility lowers cost of application deployment.
However it can take quite a while before Red5 will support this. So if you NEED it your best bet is Flash Media Server, if you can spend the cash. But even then, you need a wait a bit.
Besides RTMP and Flash based solutions you can go ahead and create some proprietary client-side tools like a Java applet or a native client like MSN, QQ or Skype has...
Walter
Achilleas
I would build on this information and keep you updated if future steps
will be taken for further developments to BBB.
Thanks again,
Achilleas
On Jul 7, 3:39 pm, Walter Tak <wal...@waltertak.com> wrote:
> Flash supports H.264 playback since Flash 9, a few years ago.
>
> Encoding or 'recording from a webcam' however, from the Flash client, is
> brand-new ( only in Flash 10.4 yet (?) "beta" ) and so far will
> probably only be supported by Flash Media Server 4 since only Adobe has
> access to how the encoding works in the new beta player.
> Seehttp://www.bytearray.org/?p=3066:
>
> Quote:
>
> > ).
Tiago Jacobs - iMDT
Do you guys know if it's already available on FP?
Regards,
Tiago
Em 08/07/2011 12:45, Achilleas escreveu:
> -
> Thanks guys for the valuable information provided.
>
> I would build on this information and keep you updated if future steps
> will be taken for further developments to BBB.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Achilleas
>
> On Jul 7, 3:39 pm, Walter Tak<wal...@waltertak.com> wrote:
>> Flash supports H.264 playback since Flash 9, a few years ago.
>>
>> Encoding or 'recording from a webcam' however, from the Flash client, is
>> brand-new ( only in Flash 10.4 yet (?) "beta" ) and so far will
>> probably only be supported by Flash Media Server 4 since only Adobe has
>> access to how the encoding works in the new beta player.
>> Seehttp://www.bytearray.org/?p=3066:
>>
>> Quote:
>>
>>> *H.264/AVC SW Encode for camera encoding* � Build richer and more engaging
Fred Dixon
There is a incubator release for Flash 11 available for download at
http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplatformruntimes_incubator.html
Regards,... Fred
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Tiago Jacobs - iMDT <ti...@imdt.com.br> wrote:
> As soon i get a Flash Player that encode h264 i'll make red5 support this.
>
> Do you guys know if it's already available on FP?
>
> Regards,
> Tiago
>
> Em 08/07/2011 12:45, Achilleas escreveu:
>>
>> -
>> Thanks guys for the valuable information provided.
>>
>> I would build on this information and keep you updated if future steps
>> will be taken for further developments to BBB.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Achilleas
>>
>> On Jul 7, 3:39 pm, Walter Tak<wal...@waltertak.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Flash supports H.264 playback since Flash 9, a few years ago.
>>>
>>> Encoding or 'recording from a webcam' however, from the Flash client, is
>>> brand-new ( only in Flash 10.4 yet (?) "beta" ) and so far will
>>> probably only be supported by Flash Media Server 4 since only Adobe has
>>> access to how the encoding works in the new beta player.
>>> Seehttp://www.bytearray.org/?p=3066:
>>>
>>> Quote:
>>>
>>>> *H.264/AVC SW Encode for camera encoding* — Build richer and more
Leonardo Daronco
Fred Dixon
We just created an internal build of the BigBlueButton client using
Flex 4.5, ran it under Flash Player 11, broadcast a video stream with
h.264, and took a screen shot (right image). We compared to roughly
the same video in the current version of BigBlueButton (left image).
You can see there is less blockiness in the right image ... especially
on the hand.
Just to calibrate exceptions, while the support for H.264 is great,
it's not available yet in the release version of Flash, and, as
mentioned in the previous post on our progress towards BigBlueButton
0.8, it would take a lot of testing to switch from compiling from Flex
3.5 to Flex 4.5 this late in the BigBlueButton 0.8 dev cycle. We'll
be sticking with Flex 3.5 for this release.
Still, it's great to see the Flash platform evolving. Kudos to Adobe!
Regards,... Fred
--
http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/FAQ#BigBlueButton_Committer
HST
Besides the H.264 video news of Flash 11 does the direct support of
the G.711 audio codec will have any effect on the VOIP side of thing?
Guess not, because Speex is better suited due to its wide bandwidth
but when there are many dial in people participating maybe doing it in
G.711 could make sense....
Bye
HST
Fred Dixon
We'll be going with speex in BigBlueButton 0.8. And its good to see
future versions of Flash offering more options for audio codecs.
Regards,.. Fred
--
http://code.google.com/p/bigbluebutton/wiki/FAQ#BigBlueButton_Committer
Achilleas
It is very good to hear that h.264 codec can be supported and quality
is improved as you proved through the new build of BBB. Could you
please provide us with some guidance on the steps of necessary to
perform ourselves an internal build with Flash 11 h.264 support.
I have just installed and started to work with BBB. I have also setup
the development environment and performed some changes and additions
of modules. But I am still a newbie in BBB so I will appreciate if you
could provide me some guidance on how to do that.
Thanks,
Achilleas
On Jul 17, 8:47 pm, Fred Dixon <ffdi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi HST,
>
> We'll be going with speex in BigBlueButton 0.8. And its good to see
> future versions of Flash offering more options for audio codecs.
>
> Regards,.. Fred
Fred Dixon
The problem is that to get the h.264 support requires compiling under
Flex 4.5, and we are encountering problems with converting
BigBlueButton client from Flex 3.5 compiler to Flex 4.5 compiler.
These problems can be overcome with testing, but we're really
interested in getting out BigBlueButton 0.8-beta at the moment, and
hence will be sticking with Flex 3.5.
Given we have problems compiling under Flex 4.5, we're trying to avoid
the scenario where we get a series of posts "I followed your
suggestions and my BigBlueButton client doesn't work under Flex 4.5".
Yes, we know that already. We're rather finish BigBlueButton 0.8
first, work with other experienced Flex developers to get
BigBlueButton working properly on Flex 4.5, and save you a lot of
effort in the long run.
Regards,... Fred
Achilleas
I understand your point and thank you for all the information
provided.
Thanks,
Achilleas