Werowocomoco

[evergene]

Text below is from an article in The SF Chronicle:

"Saturday is opening day for filmmaker Francis Ford Coppola's
Werowocomoco in Geyserville, perhaps the Bay Area's first American
Indian restaurant. It is located in Coppola's year-old Virginia Dare
Winery and named after a political capital of the Algonquian tribes
who lived in Virginia when British colonists arrived."

"...Coppola has become Werowocomoco's chef as well..."
http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Questions-of-cuisine-and-culture-surround-10594199.php?t=2790a3cfdb

Text below is from a column in The SF Chronicle written by Coppola:

"Originally my interest in Virginia Dare came as a child upon hearing
the jingle of the Virginia Dare wine on the radio, and seeing the
label art that featured a pretty blond girl who seemed out of a fairy
tale..."

"...More reading and study led to my desire to resurrect this early
American wine brand at the site of the former Geyser Peak winery in
Geyserville. As the purchase of the property brought with it a permit
allowing the development of a visitor center and restaurant, I began
to imagine that we could feature Native American ambience and food
that would highlight ingredients of America as it once had been."

"...I confess that I used my own imagination and creative powers to
bring this project to life much in the way that I would have in making
a film."
http://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/Coppola-s-new-restaurant-menu-with-a-story-to-10592174.php


Menu items, from
https://www.scribd.com/document/328735536/Werowocomoco-Menu
1/2 rotisserie prairie chicken $18.50
Bison burger on acorn bun, with lettuce tomato onion pickles, 16.50

Cedar plank salmon
Bison ribs
Salmon sashimi tacos
Sweet potato fries with caramel dipping sauce

Lost Colony society members recieve 10% off food

Corkage: "No cost for wine produced in Sonoma County. $15 for all
others."

[Julian Macassey]

On Sat, 05 Nov 2016 09:38:02 -0700, evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:
> Text below is from an article in The SF Chronicle:
>
> "Saturday is opening day for filmmaker Francis Ford Coppola's
> Werowocomoco in Geyserville, perhaps the Bay Area's first American
> Indian restaurant. It is located in Coppola's year-old Virginia Dare
> Winery and named after a political capital of the Algonquian tribes
> who lived in Virginia when British colonists arrived."
>
> "...Coppola has become Werowocomoco's chef as well..."
> http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Questions-of-cuisine-and-culture-surround-10594199.php?t=2790a3cfdb
>
>

> Menu items, from
> https://www.scribd.com/document/328735536/Werowocomoco-Menu
> 1/2 rotisserie prairie chicken $18.50

Using the traditional Native American rotisserie I'm
sure.

> Bison burger on acorn bun, with lettuce tomato onion pickles, 16.50

Those acirn buns were always a big hit, and those native
American pickles. Just so authentic!

>
> Cedar plank salmon
> Bison ribs
> Salmon sashimi tacos

Sashimi tacos, who knew how popukar they were before the
white man came.

> Sweet potato fries with caramel dipping sauce

Using the Native Ameriican deep fryer no doubt.

Just another faux theme restaurnat along with Medieval
Times, Planet Hollywood etc. Except it is an even bigger rip off.

--
If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to
help people. Anthony Wedgwood Benn

[Al Eisner]

On Sat, 5 Nov 2016, evergene wrote:

> Text below is from an article in The SF Chronicle:
>
> "Saturday is opening day for filmmaker Francis Ford Coppola's
> Werowocomoco in Geyserville, perhaps the Bay Area's first American
> Indian restaurant. It is located in Coppola's year-old Virginia Dare
> Winery and named after a political capital of the Algonquian tribes
> who lived in Virginia when British colonists arrived."

This seems just weird. Why would he have to go to Virginia to get a
name for a California restaurant service Native-American-style food?
The bison on the menu also seems like an odd match for Virginia.
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00....@iris02.slac.stanford.edu>,

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>This seems just weird. Why would he have to go to Virginia to get a
>name for a California restaurant service Native-American-style food?
>The bison on the menu also seems like an odd match for Virginia.

He admits it's nothing but personal whim, "like making a movie."
(I'm not saying it's innocent, of course. Deceiving the public
about someone else's culture is pretty obnoxious, even if you give
some disclaimer about it not being authentic.)

[Mike D.]

On Saturday, November 5, 2016 at 9:38:11 AM UTC-7, evergene wrote:
> Text below is from an article in The SF Chronicle:
>
> "Saturday is opening day for filmmaker Francis Ford Coppola's
> Werowocomoco in Geyserville, perhaps the Bay Area's first American
> Indian restaurant. It is located in Coppola's year-old Virginia Dare
> Winery and named after a political capital of the Algonquian tribes
> who lived in Virginia when British colonists arrived."
>
> "...Coppola has become Werowocomoco's chef as well..."
> http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Questions-of-cuisine-and-culture-surround-10594199.php?t=2790a3cfdb
>
> Text below is from a column in The SF Chronicle written by Coppola:
>
> "Originally my interest in Virginia Dare came as a child upon hearing
> the jingle of the Virginia Dare wine on the radio, and seeing the
> label art that featured a pretty blond girl who seemed out of a fairy
> tale..."
>
> "...More reading and study led to my desire to resurrect this early
> American wine brand at the site of the former Geyser Peak winery in
> Geyserville. As the purchase of the property brought with it a permit
> allowing the development of a visitor center and restaurant, I began
> to imagine that we could feature Native American ambience and food
> that would highlight ingredients of America as it once had been."

I remember seeing an old faded billboard for Virginia Dare wine
in western Michigan. Is this the sort of wine Coppola seeks to restore?
Such wines back in the day were similar to Mogen David or Manischewitz.

[Steve Pope]

Maybe wood bison lived in Appalachian Virginia during the last
global minimum?


S.

[Ciccio]

On 11/7/2016 9:28 AM, Todd Michel McComb wrote:

> He admits it's nothing but personal whim, "like making a movie."
> (I'm not saying it's innocent, of course. Deceiving the public
> about someone else's culture is pretty obnoxious, even if you give
> some disclaimer about it not being authentic.)

Well there’s obnoxious, and then there’s mother-fucking OBNOXIOUS!!!
Some examples of the latter are Olive Garden “misleading the public”
about Italian culture, P.F. Chang “misleading the public” about Chinese
culture or Taco Bell “misleading the public” about Mexican culture.
Whereas Coppola, at least, gives the public a heads-up he’s doing a
knock-off.

Though as to Coppola, there are some scenes in the Godfather that are SO
blatantly incongruous with Italian and/or Italian-American culture that
they are like fingernails across a chalkboard, which I might expect from
a non-Italian-(American) screenwriter doing a knock-off about us. The
movie, of course, overall, is great, even with its flaws.

Ciccio
--
“Another step in a long-term goal of mine:
the peaceful, nonviolent disappearance of the white race."
- Leftist leader Tom Hayden

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <nvqq64$1otn$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Some examples of the latter are Olive Garden "misleading the public"
>about Italian culture, P.F. Chang "misleading the public" about Chinese
>culture or Taco Bell "misleading the public" about Mexican culture.

I'm sure not going to defend those, uh, establishments, but I tend
to think the public already knows they're full of shit. Maybe they
know that of Coppola too....

[Al Eisner]

On Mon, 7 Nov 2016, Steve Pope wrote:

> Maybe wood bison lived in Appalachian Virginia during the last
> global minimum?

Good try, but no cigar. Check Google/Wikipedia.

Coppola apologist! If he really wants to accomplish something he should
make another movie as good as those he made in the 1970's (and late 60's).

[evergene]

Julian Macassey wrote:

> Just another faux theme restaurnat along with Medieval
>Times, Planet Hollywood etc. Except it is an even bigger rip off.

I think it's too bad they're not serving hard liquor. I could see
stopping in for an Ishi Collins or a Tonto's Firewater.

"How would you like your bison burger?"
"Slashed and burned, thanks."

[Julian Macassey]

On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 13:32:54 -0800, Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> Coppola apologist! If he really wants to accomplish something he should
> make another movie as good as those he made in the 1970's (and late 60's).

He made good movies? Did I miss one?

I put him in the Hollywood wanker crowd along with Alfred
Hitchcock, Michael Bay and Stephen Spielberg.

Two of those men have a reputation of being gropers.

[Julian Macassey]

On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 13:03:01 -0800, Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> some disclaimer about it not being authentic.)
>
> Well there’s obnoxious, and then there’s mother-fucking OBNOXIOUS!!!
> Some examples of the latter are Olive Garden “misleading the public”
> about Italian culture, P.F. Chang “misleading the public” about Chinese
> culture or Taco Bell “misleading the public” about Mexican culture.

Chain restaurants aim to serve food that won't offend
anyone who might say "that tastes funny".

> Whereas Coppola, at least, gives the public a heads-up he’s doing a
> knock-off.
>
> Though as to Coppola, there are some scenes in the Godfather that are SO
> blatantly incongruous with Italian and/or Italian-American culture that
> they are like fingernails across a chalkboard, which I might expect from
> a non-Italian-(American) screenwriter doing a knock-off about us. The
> movie, of course, overall, is great, even with its flaws.

With a name like Coppola I assumed he got the Italian
American label.

That being said, I read the book, I worked in Europe with
actual Italians, I hung with Fred Forte as a youth. So, I know
British Italians and real Italians and the odd Italian that
came to the US post WWII. I thought the book did a much better
job than the movie.


--
It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through
disobedience and through rebellion. - Oscar Wilde

[Ciccio]

I put his Outstanding period from 1970 "Patton" to 1990 "The Outsiders,"
nothing before or since as Outstanding. Though some are good outside of
that time frame, but none that are outstanding.

[Steve Pope]

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:

>On Mon, 7 Nov 2016, Steve Pope wrote:

>> Maybe wood bison lived in Appalachian Virginia during the last
>> global minimum?

>Good try, but no cigar. Check Google/Wikipedia.

I did, and the pre-Eurovasion range is described as being to the north,
but where the hell were the wood bison supposed to roam when all of Canada
was covered by an ice sheet?

Steve

[Al Eisner]

On Mon, 7 Nov 2016, Ciccio wrote:

> On 11/7/2016 1:32 PM, Al Eisner wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Nov 2016, Steve Pope wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe wood bison lived in Appalachian Virginia during the last
>>> global minimum?
>>
>> Good try, but no cigar. Check Google/Wikipedia.
>>
>> Coppola apologist! If he really wants to accomplish something he should
>> make another movie as good as those he made in the 1970's (and late 60's).
>
> I put his Outstanding period from 1970 "Patton" to 1990 "The Outsiders,"
> nothing before or since as Outstanding. Though some are good outside of that
> time frame, but none that are outstanding.

There is "The Rain People" (1969), and I very much liked "You're a Big Boy
Now" (1966), which was great fun even if not in the category of his 70's
pictures. "The Outsiders" was actually from 1983; while I found it
absorbing, ultimately I was put off by its excess of sentimentality.
By around that time, I was skipping most of his films, so I may have
missed something good from the 80's, although I didn't pick up on it
from reviews.

[Al Eisner]

On Mon, 7 Nov 2016, Steve Pope wrote:

> Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 7 Nov 2016, Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> Maybe wood bison lived in Appalachian Virginia during the last
>>> global minimum?
>
>> Good try, but no cigar. Check Google/Wikipedia.
>
> I did, and the pre-Eurovasion range is described as being to the north,

but in the west

> but where the hell were the wood bison supposed to roam when all of Canada
> was covered by an ice sheet?

"supposed"? I doubt if God is reading this forum.

I doubt if there was any ice sheet in the period relevant to Virginia
Dare; there may well be archaeological records of what the natives
in that area ate in prehistoric times, but I don't really have the
incentive to search for that. If you find it, by all means post,.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris02.slac.stanford.edu>,

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>"supposed"? I doubt if God is reading this forum.

Surely the space aliens are, though.

[Ciccio]

On 11/7/2016 2:03 PM, Julian Macassey wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 13:32:54 -0800, Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Coppola apologist! If he really wants to accomplish something he should
>> make another movie as good as those he made in the 1970's (and late 60's).
>
> He made good movies? Did I miss one?
>
> I put him in the Hollywood wanker crowd along with Alfred
> Hitchcock, Michael Bay and Stephen Spielberg.

Nope. In addition to Coppola’s outstanding abilities in storytelling,
his cinematography is phenomenal. In my working life I’ve done
commercial photography as well as fine art photography and I made a
living at both. So, I acquired sort of an appreciation for both. Over
the past 30 years I have randomly frozen many hundreds of frames of GF I
and GF II. Putting the average snapshot at a “1” and the best works of,
say, Edward Weston at a “10,” I would not put any frame of GF I or II at
<7 as a photograph.

[Steve Pope]

There's this, from the Bison Wikipedia page:

"Bison were seen in North Carolina near Buffalo Ford on the Catawba
River as late as 1750."

The article goes on to describe that American bison evolved in North
America from Bison antiquus between 5000 and 10000 years ago,
which itself evolved from older megafauna around 12000 years ago.
Google books coughs up a factoid that Bison antiquus fossils
occur in North Carolina ("Exploring North Carolina with Tom
Earnhardt".)

So I'm going to say the circumstantial case for either of these
bison species having ranged in the past in the general area of
Virginia to be pretty good.

Not to mention the possibility the plains Indians could have been
smoking/curing bison and trading bison products with Virginia Indians.

Steve

[Al Eisner]

Interesting, and this may well be possible. But very probably not the
(northern) Wood Bison subspecies, as you originally suggested.

[Steve Pope]

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:

>> "Bison were seen in North Carolina near Buffalo Ford on the Catawba
>> River as late as 1750."
>>
>> The article goes on to describe that American bison evolved in North
>> America from Bison antiquus between 5000 and 10000 years ago,
>> which itself evolved from older megafauna around 12000 years ago.
>> Google books coughs up a factoid that Bison antiquus fossils
>> occur in North Carolina ("Exploring North Carolina with Tom
>> Earnhardt".)
>>
>> So I'm going to say the circumstantial case for either of these
>> bison species having ranged in the past in the general area of
>> Virginia to be pretty good.
>>
>> Not to mention the possibility the plains Indians could have been
>> smoking/curing bison and trading bison products with Virginia Indians.

>Interesting, and this may well be possible. But very probably not the
>(northern) Wood Bison subspecies, as you originally suggested.

You're right.

Tangentially, years ago I assumed a Wood Bison would be smaller than
a Plains Bison, enabling it to run through forests more nimbly,
but it turns out the opposite is true.

Steve

[Julian Macassey]

On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 14:30:32 -0800, Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I put his Outstanding period from 1970 "Patton" to 1990 "The Outsiders,"
> nothing before or since as Outstanding. Though some are good outside of
> that time frame, but none that are outstanding.

In that era, for US directors, I would say Robert Altman
did better work. Altman was spotty though.


--
"The only problem with Microsoft is that they just have no taste, they have
absolutely no taste." - Steve Jobs 1995 TV interview

[Peter Lawrence]

It's weird. If he really wanted to be "authentic" he would try to offer
entrées based on what the Bay area native Ohlone Indians ate, like acorn
porridge.

https://sites.google.com/a/wornickjds.org/ohlone-native-americans/home/food

:)

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <nvras1$41a$1...@dont-email.me>,

Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
>It's weird. If he really wanted to be "authentic" he would try

>to offer entrees based on what the Bay area native Ohlone Indians
>ate, like acorn porridge.

They do mention acorn buns....

The problem with acorns is that, although they were/are abundant
here, no one seems to like them much. Acorn porridge was also
standard fare in pre-modern Tuscany, but you don't see immigrants
from there jonesing for it. (In fact, the historical record is
full of people complaining about it & demanding proper bread.)

[Ciccio]

On 11/7/2016 3:26 PM, Al Eisner wrote:

"The Outsiders" was actually from 1983; while I found it
> absorbing, ultimately I was put off by its excess of sentimentality.
> By around that time, I was skipping most of his films, so I may have
> missed something good from the 80's, although I didn't pick up on it
> from reviews.

I thought he captured the white trash in "The Outsiders" as good, if not
better, than he ever has the Italian-American trash. Of course, Scorsese
captures the Italian-American trash much better than does Coppola or
anybody else.

A movie during that period which could have been outstanding, but
Coppola ruined with an "excess of sentimentality" is "Gardens of Stone."

[pfraser]

... or the mice.

[Julian Macassey]

What wine would they suggest goes with acorn porridge?


--
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell

[Julian Macassey]

I have eaten acorns, both as a schoolboy and whenmy
neighbour's daughter made acorn bread. Not tasty.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <slrno22i7o...@adeed.tele.com>,

Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> wrote:
>What wine would they suggest goes with acorn porridge?

Something sweet, which (as per a previous poster) might be the
reference for Virginia Dare anyway.

[Peter Lawrence]

On 11/7/16 7:39 PM, Julian Macassey wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 17:48:13 -0800, Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On 11/7/16 9:18 AM, Al Eisner wrote:
>>>
>>> This seems just weird. Why would he have to go to Virginia to get a
>>> name for a California restaurant service Native-American-style food?
>>> The bison on the menu also seems like an odd match for Virginia.
>>
>> It's weird. If he really wanted to be "authentic" he would try to offer
>> entrées based on what the Bay area native Ohlone Indians ate, like acorn
>> porridge.
>>
>> https://sites.google.com/a/wornickjds.org/ohlone-native-americans/home/food
>
> What wine would they suggest goes with acorn porridge?

Dandelion wine of course!

(I'm also surprised that Werowocomoco menu doesn't offer any venison dishes,
a major source of meat for the Ohlone and most other California Indians.)


- Peter

[Al Eisner]

On Mon, 7 Nov 2016, Ciccio wrote:

> On 11/7/2016 3:26 PM, Al Eisner wrote:
>
> "The Outsiders" was actually from 1983; while I found it
>> absorbing, ultimately I was put off by its excess of sentimentality.
>> By around that time, I was skipping most of his films, so I may have
>> missed something good from the 80's, although I didn't pick up on it
>> from reviews.
>
> I thought he captured the white trash in "The Outsiders" as good, if not
> better, than he ever has the Italian-American trash.

But did you buy the Mickey Mouse stuff and the use of the Frost poem?
To me that doesn't seem real (but I could easily be wrong). On the
other hand, Matt Dillon's character and performance were fully
convincing, and just about made the movie.

> Of course, Scorsese
> captures the Italian-American trash much better than does Coppola or anybody
> else.
>
> A movie during that period which could have been outstanding, but Coppola
> ruined with an "excess of sentimentality" is "Gardens of Stone."

Never saw that one.

[Ciccio]

On 11/8/2016 9:21 AM, Al Eisner wrote:

> But did you buy the Mickey Mouse stuff and the use of the Frost poem?
> To me that doesn't seem real (but I could easily be wrong).

Without any deep analysis, but just a general visceral impression, I
found such was stilted, but believable vis-a-vis within the structure of
Howell's character orphaned by the death of both parents, etc.

Certainly, not as blatantly incongruous/unbelievable as
Italians/Italian-Americans addressing Don Vito as "Don Corleone,"...No
way! Also, Don Vito's funeral was wayyyyy too sedate for a
Sicilian/Southern Italian-(American) funeral in the 50s.

On the
> other hand, Matt Dillon's character and performance were fully
> convincing, and just about made the movi

I agree.

>> A movie during that period which could have been outstanding, but
>> Coppola ruined with an "excess of sentimentality" is "Gardens of Stone."
>
> Never saw that one.

A fun part is watching James Caan knocking the shit outta Bill Graham.
Graham was, in essence, playing himself...a big asshole.

[Mike D.]

On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 2:04:20 PM UTC-8, Julian Macassey wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 13:32:54 -0800, Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Coppola apologist! If he really wants to accomplish something he should
> > make another movie as good as those he made in the 1970's (and late 60's).
>
> He made good movies? Did I miss one?
>
> I put him in the Hollywood wanker crowd along with Alfred
> Hitchcock, Michael Bay and Stephen Spielberg.
>
> Two of those men have a reputation of being gropers.

Alfred Hitchcock started out as a Limey bastard, making the typically
unwatchable films of the 1930s before moving to Hollywood and
making films with character and dialogue as well as narrative drive.

And of course he was "a groper," as even JFK and Billy Jeff were.
But like them, he thought of himself as a ladies' man.

[evergene]

Mike D. wrote:

>On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 2:04:20 PM UTC-8, Julian Macassey wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 13:32:54 -0800, Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Coppola apologist! If he really wants to accomplish something he should
>> > make another movie as good as those he made in the 1970's (and late 60's).
>>
>> He made good movies? Did I miss one?
>>
>> I put him in the Hollywood wanker crowd along with Alfred
>> Hitchcock, Michael Bay and Stephen Spielberg.
>>
>> Two of those men have a reputation of being gropers.
>
>Alfred Hitchcock started out as a Limey bastard, making the typically
>unwatchable films of the 1930s before moving to Hollywood and
>making films with character and dialogue as well as narrative drive.

"The Lodger," (1927) with Ivor Novello, is a good movie. True, it
doesn't have much dialogue, but it's a silent movie. It's the only one
of Hitchcock's silents I've seen.

Hitchcock's inventiveness is unsurpassed. "Rear Window" is brilliant,
"Rope" with its 10-minute-long takes, is fascinating, as is
"Lifeboat," shot with only one set, a lifeboat. And then there's
"Vertigo." And a dozen other great films.

Comparing Hitchcock to Spielberg is like comparing the Borgias to
Switzerland.
"...in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror,
murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da
Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love -
they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce?
The cuckoo clock."

To be clear, Hitchcock is the Borgias.

[Julian Macassey]

On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 17:08:20 -0800 (PST), Mike D. <spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 2:04:20 PM UTC-8, Julian Macassey wrote:
>>
>> I put him in the Hollywood wanker crowd along with Alfred
>> Hitchcock, Michael Bay and Stephen Spielberg.
>>
>> Two of those men have a reputation of being gropers.
>
> Alfred Hitchcock started out as a Limey bastard, making the typically
> unwatchable films of the 1930s before moving to Hollywood and
> making films with character and dialogue as well as narrative drive.

I have unfortunately watched more than one Hitchcock
film. All unwatchable. If I had to pick one, The 39 Steps.


--
"I am glad to see that a system of labor prevails under which laborers
can strike when they want to." - Abraham Lincoln

[Julian Macassey]

On Tue, 08 Nov 2016 17:57:34 -0800, evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:
> Mike D. wrote:
>>
>>Alfred Hitchcock started out as a Limey bastard, making the typically
>>unwatchable films of the 1930s before moving to Hollywood and
>>making films with character and dialogue as well as narrative drive.
>
> "The Lodger," (1927) with Ivor Novello, is a good movie. True, it
> doesn't have much dialogue, but it's a silent movie. It's the only one
> of Hitchcock's silents I've seen.
>
> Hitchcock's inventiveness is unsurpassed. "Rear Window" is brilliant,
> "Rope" with its 10-minute-long takes, is fascinating, as is
> "Lifeboat," shot with only one set, a lifeboat. And then there's
> "Vertigo." And a dozen other great films.

My mother shared my disdain for Hitchcock, Rope was a
movie she used as an example of a waste of celluloid.

>
> Comparing Hitchcock to Spielberg is like comparing the Borgias to
> Switzerland.

> "...in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror,
> murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da
> Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love -
> they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce?
> The cuckoo clock."

Austria (Remember the Austro Hungarian Empire?) produced
the cuckoo clock. The Swiss produced clockwork, guns, dairy
products and a stable banking system.


--
Cutting Libraries in a recession is like cutting hospitals in a
plague. - Eleanor Crumblehulme

[Tim May]

We also need to ban the use of words like entrée which are culturally appropriative.

Also, what's with these First Americans wearing contemporary Western clothing? Are they not approriating anoother culture's standards and garb?

Oh, never mind. In this New Dawn of Trump I am  free to say a hearty Fuck You to the Politically Correct.

-- 

Tim May

[Tim May]

I have more than 10 osks on my property, and, obviously a lot of acorns..

I might've once said that even the poor would not have eaten them,
except, of course, the poor now get money stolen from me and now
generally eat more free siht food than I do.

(Hint: We need to force the poor to start working again or starve. Why
do I pay 70% of my income in taxes so that breeders can live for free?)

--
Tim May

[Tim May]

On 2016-11-08 04:27:33 +0000, Peter Lawrence said:
> Dandelion wine of course!
>
> (I'm also surprised that Werowocomoco menu doesn't offer any venison
> dishes, a major source of meat for the Ohlone and most other California
> Indians.)

Ohlones were vegans. No energy. "Me smoke peace pipe. Me not fight. Me
extinct."

--
Tim May

[Tim May]

On 2016-11-09 07:07:31 +0000, Julian Macassey said:

> On Tue, 8 Nov 2016 17:08:20 -0800 (PST), Mike D.
> <spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 2:04:20 PM UTC-8, Julian Macassey wrote:
>>>
>>> I put him in the Hollywood wanker crowd along with Alfred
>>> Hitchcock, Michael Bay and Stephen Spielberg.
>>>
>>> Two of those men have a reputation of being gropers.
>>
>> Alfred Hitchcock started out as a Limey bastard, making the typically
>> unwatchable films of the 1930s before moving to Hollywood and
>> making films with character and dialogue as well as narrative drive.
>
> I have unfortunately watched more than one Hitchcock
> film. All unwatchable. If I had to pick one, The 39 Steps.

Hey, Hitchcock was a fellow Scruzan!



--
Tim May

[evergene]

Julian Macassey wrote:

> My mother shared my disdain for Hitchcock, Rope was a
>movie she used as an example of a waste of celluloid.

So the acorn didn't fall far from the tree.

>> Comparing Hitchcock to Spielberg is like comparing the Borgias to
>> Switzerland.
>
>> "...in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror,
>> murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da
>> Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love -
>> they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce?
>> The cuckoo clock."
>
> Austria (Remember the Austro Hungarian Empire?) produced
>the cuckoo clock. The Swiss produced clockwork, guns, dairy
>products and a stable banking system.

Fortunately, when Orson Welles wrote those lines for "The Third Man,"
he didn't let historical accuracy stand in the way of good movie
dialogue.

No matter, I still prefer Hitchcock's movies to Spielberg's. But we
were talking about Coppola, the movie maker and wine-maker and
promoter of "Native American ambience and food." So here's one more
comparison: Hitchcock is to Coppola as spotted dick is to a bison
burger on an acorn bun.

=-=-=-=

More from The Third Man:

Harry: [chuckling] Oh Holly, what fools we are, talking to each
other this way. As though I would do anything to you, or you to me.
You're just mixed up about things in general. Nobody thinks in terms
of human beings. Governments don't. Why should we? They talk about the
people and the proletariat, I talk about the suckers and the mugs -
it's the same thing. They have their five-year plans, so have I.
Martins: You used to believe in God.
Harry: Oh, I still do believe in God, old man. I believe in God
and Mercy and all that. But the dead are happier dead. They don't miss
much here, poor devils. What do you believe in?

[Al Eisner]

On Tue, 8 Nov 2016, evergene wrote:

> Mike D. wrote:
>
>> On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 2:04:20 PM UTC-8, Julian Macassey wrote:
>>> On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 13:32:54 -0800, Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Coppola apologist! If he really wants to accomplish something he should
>>>> make another movie as good as those he made in the 1970's (and late 60's).
>>>
>>> He made good movies? Did I miss one?
>>>
>>> I put him in the Hollywood wanker crowd along with Alfred
>>> Hitchcock, Michael Bay and Stephen Spielberg.
>>>
>>> Two of those men have a reputation of being gropers.
>>
>> Alfred Hitchcock started out as a Limey bastard, making the typically
>> unwatchable films of the 1930s before moving to Hollywood and
>> making films with character and dialogue as well as narrative drive.
>
> "The Lodger," (1927) with Ivor Novello, is a good movie. True, it
> doesn't have much dialogue, but it's a silent movie. It's the only one
> of Hitchcock's silents I've seen.
>
> Hitchcock's inventiveness is unsurpassed. "Rear Window" is brilliant,
> "Rope" with its 10-minute-long takes, is fascinating, as is
> "Lifeboat," shot with only one set, a lifeboat. And then there's
> "Vertigo." And a dozen other great films.

And some of the greatest, contra Mike D., were from the thirties.
All eminently watchable. My favorite, however, is Vertigo.

> Comparing Hitchcock to Spielberg is like comparing the Borgias to
> Switzerland.
> "...in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror,
> murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da
> Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love -
> they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce?
> The cuckoo clock."
>
> To be clear, Hitchcock is the Borgias.

Doesn't explaining this spoil it? Or perhaps it was already spoiled. :)

Spielberg has some peaks, but not quite as high as the Alps.

[Ciccio]

On 11/9/2016 7:55 AM, Tim May wrote:

> Oh, never mind. In this New Dawn of Trump I am free to say a hearty
> Fuck You to the Politically Correct.

Oh, to whom has been the whole political establishment, especially for
the past eight years, the loony liberals, the illegal aliens, the
militant Muslim pieces of shit, it's a hearty FUCK YOU and the horse you
rode in on! Welcome to the American (not usaian crap) Renaissance. A
"new dawn" indeed.

[Peter Lawrence]

They weren't vegans. They were hunters and gatherers. In other words,
adherents to the Paleo diet.


- Peter

[Tim May]

On 2016-11-09 16:35:53 +0000, evergene said:
> No matter, I still prefer Hitchcock's movies to Spielberg's. But we
> were talking about Coppola, the movie maker and wine-maker and
> promoter of "Native American ambience and food." So here's one more
> comparison: Hitchcock is to Coppola as spotted dick is to a bison
> burger on an acorn bun.

Enough about Lewinsky's trash talk about Bill's spotted dick!

That is so 1990s.

--
Tim May

[Peter Lawrence]

On 11/9/16 7:55 AM, Tim May wrote:
>
>
> Also, what's with these First Americans wearing contemporary Western
> clothing? Are they not approriating anoother culture's standards and garb?

First Americans? That sounds more like a name for a bank.

American Indians, in general, prefer being called collectively, Indians or
American Indians. Indians is what they call themselves among themselves.

If you're referring to someone from a specific tribe, then referring by
their tribe's name, Ohlone, Miwok, Piute, is fine too.


- Peter

[Mike D.]

And Heinlein lived in Bonny Doon, not far from Chancellor McHenry.

[Mike D.]

On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 10:34:46 AM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Nov 2016, evergene wrote:
>
> > Mike D. wrote:
> >
> >> On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 2:04:20 PM UTC-8, Julian Macassey wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 13:32:54 -0800, Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Coppola apologist! If he really wants to accomplish something he should
> >>>> make another movie as good as those he made in the 1970's (and late 60's).
> >>>
> >>> He made good movies? Did I miss one?
> >>>
> >>> I put him in the Hollywood wanker crowd along with Alfred
> >>> Hitchcock, Michael Bay and Stephen Spielberg.
> >>>
> >>> Two of those men have a reputation of being gropers.
> >>
> >> Alfred Hitchcock started out as a Limey bastard, making the typically
> >> unwatchable films of the 1930s before moving to Hollywood and
> >> making films with character and dialogue as well as narrative drive.
> >
> > "The Lodger," (1927) with Ivor Novello, is a good movie. True, it
> > doesn't have much dialogue, but it's a silent movie. It's the only one
> > of Hitchcock's silents I've seen.
> >
> > Hitchcock's inventiveness is unsurpassed. "Rear Window" is brilliant,
> > "Rope" with its 10-minute-long takes, is fascinating, as is
> > "Lifeboat," shot with only one set, a lifeboat. And then there's
> > "Vertigo." And a dozen other great films.
>
> And some of the greatest, contra Mike D., were from the thirties.
> All eminently watchable. My favorite, however, is Vertigo.

I cannot think of any British film made prior to 1960 that is enjoyable
to watch. The Third Man doesn't count because it was written by Welles.
Watching Alastair Sim's Scrooge is like eating half a loaf of dry white
toast. The Ealing comedies are like making a meal of olives.

In contrast, I will watch a Margaret Rutherford Miss Marple whenever it
is on. For non-fluff fanciers, there is Lawrence of Arabia.

>
> > Comparing Hitchcock to Spielberg is like comparing the Borgias to
> > Switzerland.
> > "...in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror,
> > murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da
> > Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love -
> > they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce?
> > The cuckoo clock."
> >
> > To be clear, Hitchcock is the Borgias.
>
> Doesn't explaining this spoil it? Or perhaps it was already spoiled. :)
>
> Spielberg has some peaks, but not quite as high as the Alps.

ET phone home.

[Mike D.]

I am not familiar with a Swiss gun manufacturer other than what is
known in the US as Sig Sauer. Up against that I would put Steyr.
Post-Empire, Austria produced the famous products of Herr Glock.

But the Austrian Empire also produced the Girardoni air rifle, which
could hold one lead ball in the chamber and 19 in the magazine, back
in the late 1700s. Lewis and Clark famously carried one on their
expedition.

Hungary produced the Beigli, the Puli, and the Viszla, of which
the first is a dessert.

[Julian Macassey]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 08:19:18 -0800 (PST), Mike D.
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I cannot think of any British film made prior to 1960 that is enjoyable
> to watch.

How about "An Inspector Calls"?

> The Ealing comedies are like making a meal of olives.

The Lavender Hill Mob was in many ways the template for
comedy movies from then on.


--
"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them
to choose from." - Andrew S. Tanenbaum
~

[Julian Macassey]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 08:34:34 -0800 (PST), Mike D. <spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 11:12:56 PM UTC-8, Julian Macassey wrote:
>> Austria (Remember the Austro Hungarian Empire?) produced
>> the cuckoo clock. The Swiss produced clockwork, guns, dairy
>> products and a stable banking system.
>>
>
> I am not familiar with a Swiss gun manufacturer other than what is
> known in the US as Sig Sauer.

Look up Oerlikon.

When it comes to precison and high tech, the Swiss lead
in not only wrist watches. See Nagra, Studer, Hermes, Bolex,

> Up against that I would put Steyr.

Steyr Puch, making guns, mopeds, cars etc. Famous also
for slave labour in WWII.

They did make the great Haflinger and Pinzgauer , which
are fascinating 4WD vehicles.

> Post-Empire, Austria produced the famous products of Herr Glock.
>
> But the Austrian Empire also produced the Girardoni air rifle, which
> could hold one lead ball in the chamber and 19 in the magazine, back
> in the late 1700s. Lewis and Clark famously carried one on their
> expedition.

A gun that really pissed of Naploean.


--
War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think
they are going to profit from it. - George Orwell