Dry Cured Ham[Smithfield Ham] in the Bay Area?
Theron
price? The only ongoing source I've seen lately is the Gwaltney at Ranch 99.
Do any have a good mail order source?
Ed
evergene
I've gotten excellent country ham from Newsom's, in Kentucky
http://www.newsomscountryham.com/
And from Benton's, in Tennessee:
https://bentonshams.com/order/index.php
Both places age their country ham for about a year. Benton's will
slice and vacuum-pack an entire ham for you, if you don't want to deal
with a whole ham. If you call Benton's, the sales guy, who may be a
Benton, will tell you that "folks out in San Francisco like my bacon a
lot." He's correct.
Newsome's sometimes sells ham made from free-range piggies, but I
believe you have to order an entire ham, and it ain't cheap.
Theron
"evergene" <ever...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:5jhra5pr0vn2pm9j0...@4ax.com...
Smithfield or Country ham without cooking it? I don't see that it's any
different than a dry cured "proscuitto" ham. I can't imagine these are any
more organism free than proscuitto is. I don't know what the generic term
for proscuitto is. Our butcher hangs curing Country Hams behind his butcher
counter and sells them as home maid "proscuitto". I don't think he's doing
anything derelict. I think he's doing just what Volpi in Milwaukee does.
RE: proscuitto: What's the taste difference between non nitrate, as is
Parma, and nitrate containing, as in most other proscuitto type hams?
RE: sliced country ham: How would you cook individual slices?
RE: country ham: The two country hams I have tried to cook have more or less
been disasters. They ended up too dry and the meat fell apart. How do you do
it?
TIA
Ed
RegForte
> Do you know why it's not advised, at least as far as I know, to eat a
> Smithfield or Country ham without cooking it? I don't see that it's any
> different than a dry cured "proscuitto" ham. I can't imagine these are any
> more organism free than proscuitto is.
Other than the fact that you're eating a salt nugget, there's nothing
wrong with it. Like eating uncooked salt cod or something (ouch).
> I don't know what the generic term
> for proscuitto is. Our butcher hangs curing Country Hams behind his butcher
> counter and sells them as home maid "proscuitto". I don't think he's doing
> anything derelict. I think he's doing just what Volpi in Milwaukee does.
>
Prosciutto is a generic Italian term for dry cured ham. It's
legit to say you produce homemade prosciutto. It's not permissible
to call it Prosciutto di Parma, Prosciutto di San Daniele, etc.
Unless it's actually made there.
> RE: proscuitto: What's the taste difference between non nitrate, as is
> Parma, and nitrate containing, as in most other proscuitto type hams?
Nitrates/nitrites change the flavor somewhat. The flavor is rather
difficult to describe, but it's distinct.
They're not a requirement to cure meat, but they do provide a
margin of safety. They also fix the color.
evergene
>Do you know why it's not advised, at least as far as I know, to eat a
>Smithfield or Country ham without cooking it? I don't see that it's any
>different than a dry cured "proscuitto" ham. I can't imagine these are any
>more organism free than proscuitto is.
I've eaten uncooked country ham from several US sources. You'll want
to scrub the mold off the ham first. :-)
> I don't know what the generic term
>for proscuitto is. Our butcher hangs curing Country Hams behind his butcher
>counter and sells them as home maid "proscuitto".
Have you tried it? How's it taste?
>RE: proscuitto: What's the taste difference between non nitrate, as is
>Parma, and nitrate containing, as in most other proscuitto type hams?
I think other factors influence country ham flavor at least as much as
the presence or absence of sodium nitrate in the cure: the pig's
lifestyle and diet, the presence or absence of sugar and pepper in the
cure, the weather during the curing year, not to mention whether the
country ham is smoked or unsmoked. And of course, the love,
dedication, and religious affiliation of the ham artist.
Benton's sells both smoked and unsmoked country ham, and uses sodium
nitrate (as well as sugar) in the cure. Newsom's hams are smoked;
their cure includes sugar but no sodium nitrate. Both of these places
now offer "prosciutto" which is probably very tasty and definitely not
prosciutto.
>RE: sliced country ham: How would you cook individual slices?
If you're hard core, you don't pre-soak, you fry the slice in fat, you
remove the slice from the pan and deglaze it with black coffee to
create red-eye gravy, and you pour the gravy over the ham slice. And
you smoke a Camel cigarette after the meal.
I'm soft core. Depending on the thickness of the slice, I simmer it
for a few seconds to a couple of minutes, then fry it, or slice it
into smaller pieces and add it to greens, or to rice.
>RE: country ham: The two country hams I have tried to cook have more or less
>been disasters. They ended up too dry and the meat fell apart. How do you do
>it?
Cooking a whole country ham is a time-consuming pain, requiring long
soaking (at least a day or two, with changes of water), long
simmering, and a huge kettle. These days I order vacuum-packed slices,
and cook as I describe above.
I'm fond of quoting Wikipedia, but their article on prosciutto is
misleading. Example: "In some places�for example Croatia�the ham is
smoked by burning different types of wood that give the prosciutto a
special flavor - this type of ham is often called by the German name
Speck." That statement is true only if the subject is country ham in
general. Speck is not prosciutto, and Croatia is not Parma.
Don Martinich
evergene <ever...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> I'm fond of quoting Wikipedia, but their article on prosciutto is
> misleading. Example: "In some places�for example Croatia�the ham is
> smoked by burning different types of wood that give the prosciutto a
> special flavor - this type of ham is often called by the German name
> Speck." That statement is true only if the subject is country ham in
> general. Speck is not prosciutto, and Croatia is not Parma.
In Dalmatia, the southern part of Croatia, ham is called prsut,
pronounced 'pur-shoot'. The regional country hams are smoked, pressed,
and air-cured. It is often served as an appetizer, uncooked and thinly
sliced, along with olives and goat or sheep cheese. The better versions
that I tasted were equally as enjoyable as prosciutto di Parma. Yes,
Wiki is a bit remiss here.
D.M.
spamtrap1888
> In article <kc4ta55did9pvqf7srmigk4ug2jn9k2...@4ax.com>,
Check out the speck from Suedtirol -- northernmost Italy ever since
the end of WW I
They specify as much of the pig as possible: you can get speck made
from
1. neck
2. shoulder
3. loin
4. belly
5. thigh
The thigh speck looks like pro-zoot to me.
evergene
>On Sep 14, 5:20�pm, Don Martinich <dmartin...@att.net> wrote:
>> In article <kc4ta55did9pvqf7srmigk4ug2jn9k2...@4ax.com>,
>>
>> �evergene <everg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I'm fond of quoting Wikipedia, but their article on prosciutto is
>> > misleading. Example: "In some places�for example Croatia�the ham is
>> > smoked by burning different types of wood that give the prosciutto a
>> > special flavor - this type of ham is often called by the German name
>> > Speck." That statement is true only if the subject is country ham in
>> > general. Speck is not prosciutto, and Croatia is not Parma.
>>
>> In Dalmatia, the southern part of Croatia, ham is called prsut,
>> pronounced 'pur-shoot'. The regional country hams are smoked, pressed,
>> and air-cured. It is often served as an appetizer, uncooked and thinly
>> sliced, along with olives and goat or sheep cheese. The better versions
>> that I tasted were equally as enjoyable as prosciutto di Parma. Yes,
>> Wiki is a bit remiss here.
>>
>
>Check out the speck from Suedtirol -- northernmost Italy ever since
>the end of WW I
>
>http://www.bauernspeck.org/
Wow. I want some of that. I dream of a world where all men/women live
as brothers/sisters, and each nation's ham, from China to Bayonne
(France, not New Jersey); from Parma, Italy to Princeton, Kentucky;
from Dalmatia to Salamanca, is available to me at Drewe's Brothers
market.
Don's transliteration of prsut reminds me of the way a Sicilian woman
I knew referred to osso bucco as "oss boos." She also pronounced
prosciutto as "berzhoot."
Al Eisner
> spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
>> Check out the speck from Suedtirol -- northernmost Italy ever since
>> the end of WW I
>>
>> http://www.bauernspeck.org/
>
> Wow. I want some of that. I dream of a world where all men/women live
> as brothers/sisters, and each nation's ham, from China to Bayonne
> (France, not New Jersey); from Parma, Italy to Princeton, Kentucky;
You presumably meant to write "Princeton (Kentucky, not New Jersey)"
Your disrespect for New Jersey is stunning!
> from Dalmatia to Salamanca, is available to me at Drewe's Brothers
> market.
Salamanca and Parma are of course in New York, which is close to New Jersey.
You see, your horizons are not necessarily as wide as you might think.
But dream on.
> Don's transliteration of prsut reminds me of the way a Sicilian woman
> I knew referred to osso bucco as "oss boos." She also pronounced
> prosciutto as "berzhoot."
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA
evergene
>On Tue, 15 Sep 2009, evergene wrote:
>
>> spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>
>>> Check out the speck from Suedtirol -- northernmost Italy ever since
>>> the end of WW I
>>>
>>> http://www.bauernspeck.org/
>>
>> Wow. I want some of that. I dream of a world where all men/women live
>> as brothers/sisters, and each nation's ham, from China to Bayonne
>> (France, not New Jersey); from Parma, Italy to Princeton, Kentucky;
>
>You presumably meant to write "Princeton (Kentucky, not New Jersey)"
>Your disrespect for New Jersey is stunning!
I grew up in Philadelphia. At its best, New Jersey was the shortest
distance between two points, the other point being New York. Except
for the tomatoes from New Jersey, which were excellent.
But perhaps you're right; perhaps New Jersey has much to offer. Are
you a big fan of Trenton ham? Or perhaps the fabulous cheese from, uh,
Edison?
>
>> from Dalmatia to Salamanca, is available to me at Drewe's Brothers
>> market.
>
>Salamanca and Parma are of course in New York, which is close to New Jersey.
>You see, your horizons are not necessarily as wide as you might think.
>But dream on.
You're welcome to indulge in the products and by-products of
Mid-Atlantic cuisine. I highly recommend scrapple and pepper pot soup
from Pennsylvania. But the topic is country ham, not Lebanon bologna
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon_bologna), which I also highly
recommend.
Al Eisner
> Al Eisner wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009, evergene wrote:
>>
>>> spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>>
>>>> Check out the speck from Suedtirol -- northernmost Italy ever since
>>>> the end of WW I
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bauernspeck.org/
>>>
>>> Wow. I want some of that. I dream of a world where all men/women live
>>> as brothers/sisters, and each nation's ham, from China to Bayonne
>>> (France, not New Jersey); from Parma, Italy to Princeton, Kentucky;
>>
>> You presumably meant to write "Princeton (Kentucky, not New Jersey)"
>> Your disrespect for New Jersey is stunning!
>
> I grew up in Philadelphia. At its best, New Jersey was the shortest
> distance between two points, the other point being New York. Except
> for the tomatoes from New Jersey, which were excellent.
Actually, as a native New Yorker, I had a similar view of Jersey at the
time. But Albert Einstein and Bruce Springsteen (stein?) did live there....
> But perhaps you're right; perhaps New Jersey has much to offer. Are
> you a big fan of Trenton ham? Or perhaps the fabulous cheese from, uh,
> Edison?
>>
>>> from Dalmatia to Salamanca, is available to me at Drewe's Brothers
>>> market.
>>
>> Salamanca and Parma are of course in New York, which is close to New Jersey.
>> You see, your horizons are not necessarily as wide as you might think.
>> But dream on.
>
> You're welcome to indulge in the products and by-products of
> Mid-Atlantic cuisine. I highly recommend scrapple and pepper pot soup
> from Pennsylvania. But the topic is country ham, not Lebanon bologna
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon_bologna), which I also highly
> recommend.
If you are suggesting my reply reminds you of baloney, well, perhaps.
Seriously, I'm not all that excited by country ham (perhaps inadequate
experience?). My preferences run toward another New York creature,
the pastrami. Herds of them can be found roaming Brooklyn and
Manhattan, or at least so I've been led to believe.
Todd Michel McComb
I think it's very good as an ingredient, but I use it in very small
quantities. Do people use pastrami to make quiche?
And have you tried the pastrami at The Kitchen Table in Mountain
View yet?
Peter Lawrence
>
> And have you tried the pastrami at The Kitchen Table in Mountain
> View yet?
I have. Langer's in L.A. has nothing do worry about. The pastrami at The
Kitchen Table was fine, but not out of this world like the pastrami they
serve at Langer's Deli.
I didn't find the pastrami at The Kitchen Table to be noticeably better than
the pastrami one can get from Boar's Head. Which means that it wasn't bad,
but it wasn't really special either. It was good, but maybe not worth it's
elevated price.
- Peter
evergene
>If you are suggesting my reply reminds you of baloney, well, perhaps.
>Seriously, I'm not all that excited by country ham (perhaps inadequate
>experience?). My preferences run toward another New York creature,
>the pastrami. Herds of them can be found roaming Brooklyn and
>Manhattan, or at least so I've been led to believe.
Country ham is an acquired taste, and I don't know how it is that I
acquired it, but I did. The last time I had to go to Cinncinnati for a
conference, I rented a car and drove into Kentucky, just to check out
the ham. That time I ended up buying some "Father's" brand and
stashing it in my carry-on bag on the flight home.
A few weeks ago I tasted some interesting pastrami, at Memphis
Minnie's, where "Wednesday is pastrami day." I believe they make it
in-house. It's not exactly like East Coast deli pastrami, but it's
well worth the price, which I forget.
Dorothy Parker famously defined eternity as two people and a ham.
Al Eisner
I was going to respond to Todd that I haven't made it yet to The Kitchen
Table, because its location is somewhat awkward for me on weekdays. I
still plan on trying it when I can, but now I don't need to try the
pastrami.
ObPastramiNot: on a recent SoCal trip, I made a point of stopping
again at Brent's Deli. On previous visits I've always had the pastrami
(excellent) but I decided to branch out this time, trying their chopped
liver (likewise) and matzoh ball soup. The latter was dominated by a
good (light) giant matzoh ball, but the soup was spoiled by being loaded
up with noodles and chicken shreds, neither better than "okay". I
checked with the waitress that it can be ordered without that stuff,
which I'll do if I ever order it again. I returned home with a container
of half-sours in my cooler. (I probably should have also gotten some
full-sours, but that leaves me something for next time.)
Don Martinich
evergene <ever...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Al Eisner wrote:
>
> >If you are suggesting my reply reminds you of baloney, well, perhaps.
> >Seriously, I'm not all that excited by country ham (perhaps inadequate
> >experience?). My preferences run toward another New York creature,
> >the pastrami. Herds of them can be found roaming Brooklyn and
> >Manhattan, or at least so I've been led to believe.
>
> Country ham is an acquired taste, and I don't know how it is that I
> acquired it, but I did.
I've had country hams from Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, and Virginia,
both smoked and unsmoked. Each ham had a unique flavor. Some were great
and others not. I liked the unsmoked best when eaten just thinly sliced.
The smoked were better when used as ingredients such as in omelettes or
in bean or garbanzo dishes. I would love to try aging a ham in my
basement but the climate is to dry here in the Valley.
D.M.
spamtrap1888
> ObPastramiNot: on a recent SoCal trip, I made a point of stopping
> again at Brent's Deli. On previous visits I've always had the pastrami
> (excellent) but I decided to branch out this time, trying their chopped
> liver (likewise) and matzoh ball soup. The latter was dominated by a
> good (light) giant matzoh ball, but the soup was spoiled by being loaded
> up with noodles and chicken shreds, neither better than "okay". I
> checked with the waitress that it can be ordered without that stuff,
> which I'll do if I ever order it again. I returned home with a container
> of half-sours in my cooler. (I probably should have also gotten some
> full-sours, but that leaves me something for next time.)
OK, neither of us can remember the name, but there's a Russian guy who
comes to the Cambrian Plaza Farmers Market (Wednesday, 4-??) who sells
half sour pickles, among other Eastern European treats. They were not
cheap, but cheaper than gas to Northridge. I think he's out of SF but
Google is ABSOLUTELY NO HELP.
For those who want more modulation to their pickle sourness, my wife
says that Polish delis in Detroit sell pickles listed by the number of
days they've been brining.
The Ranger
news:1fbaee5a-214b-42e6...@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
> For those who want more modulation to their
> pickle sourness, my wife says that Polish delis
> in Detroit sell pickles listed by the number of
> days they've been brining.
I'm sure they're well-worth the drive but isn't there something a *little*
closer than Michigan to get sour pickles?
The Ranger
spamtrap1888
> spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Range -- you live within shouting distance of Cambrian Plaza right
(the old-style one, with the Town & Country-look). Check out the
pickles from the Russian deli guy at their Wednesday evening farmers
market. They also have a Roti Roti guy if you don't feel like making
dinner. Cambrian Plaza is at Camden and Union in San Jose.
Al Eisner
Are Ba Tampte half-sours still to be found anywhere? About 5 years ago
Draeger;s had them, but stopped carrying them, claiming they had become
hard to get. Then I found them at my local Whole Foods, but they
stopped carrying them a year or two ago. At one time I heard Mollie
Stone's had them, but I don't know if that's still true. Anyway, this
was the one jarred pickle which was worth seeking out.
If they are found, try to select a jar in which the pickles are still
green, with little or no hint of yellow. The green ones are still crisp.
Sqwertz
> Are Ba Tampte half-sours still to be found anywhere? About 5 years ago
> Draeger;s had them, but stopped carrying them, claiming they had become
> hard to get. Then I found them at my local Whole Foods, but they
> stopped carrying them a year or two ago. At one time I heard Mollie
> Stone's had them, but I don't know if that's still true. Anyway, this
> was the one jarred pickle which was worth seeking out.
I still buy them here in Austin at the health/organic food stores.
I know it's tempting, but don't ever drink the juice down past the
pickles unless you plan on eating them with a day. Unlike vinegared
pickles, these must stay submerged in water.
The juice is slightly effervescent due to the fermentation. It's the
best drinking pickle juice around (I had 2 shots this morning before
work).
> If they are found, try to select a jar in which the pickles are still
> green, with little or no hint of yellow. The green ones are still crisp.
I've never seen any that are yellow. They don't have a very long
shelf life, that's for sure. 3 weeks by the time they get to the
shelves, IIRC. And that white cloudy stuff in the bottom is normal.
-sw
Al Eisner
> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:29:37 -0700, Al Eisner wrote:
>
>> Are Ba Tampte half-sours still to be found anywhere? About 5 years ago
>> Draeger;s had them, but stopped carrying them, claiming they had become
>> hard to get. Then I found them at my local Whole Foods, but they
>> stopped carrying them a year or two ago. At one time I heard Mollie
>> Stone's had them, but I don't know if that's still true. Anyway, this
>> was the one jarred pickle which was worth seeking out.
>
> I still buy them here in Austin at the health/organic food stores.
Since the context was a question as to whether one could get half-sour
pickles closer to SF than Northridge or Michigan, I'm not quite sure
that Austin is the answer....
> I know it's tempting, but don't ever drink the juice down past the
> pickles unless you plan on eating them with a day. Unlike vinegared
> pickles, these must stay submerged in water.
Right.
> The juice is slightly effervescent due to the fermentation. It's the
> best drinking pickle juice around (I had 2 shots this morning before
> work).
>
>> If they are found, try to select a jar in which the pickles are still
>> green, with little or no hint of yellow. The green ones are still crisp.
>
> I've never seen any that are yellow. They don't have a very long
> shelf life, that's for sure. 3 weeks by the time they get to the
> shelves, IIRC. And that white cloudy stuff in the bottom is normal.
I suspect some must have been on the shelves longer to get that yellow
tint.
RegForte
> Are Ba Tampte half-sours still to be found anywhere? About 5 years ago
> Draeger;s had them, but stopped carrying them, claiming they had become
> hard to get. Then I found them at my local Whole Foods, but they
> stopped carrying them a year or two ago. At one time I heard Mollie
> Stone's had them, but I don't know if that's still true. Anyway, this
> was the one jarred pickle which was worth seeking out.
>
> If they are found, try to select a jar in which the pickles are still
> green, with little or no hint of yellow. The green ones are still crisp.
Lucky carries them in the Kosher section.
--
Reg
Al Eisner
It would have to be in a refrigerated case.
Sqwertz
> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009, Sqwertz wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:29:37 -0700, Al Eisner wrote:
>>
>>> Are Ba Tampte half-sours still to be found anywhere? About 5 years ago
>>> Draeger;s had them, but stopped carrying them, claiming they had become
>>> hard to get. Then I found them at my local Whole Foods, but they
>>> stopped carrying them a year or two ago. At one time I heard Mollie
>>> Stone's had them, but I don't know if that's still true. Anyway, this
>>> was the one jarred pickle which was worth seeking out.
>>
>> I still buy them here in Austin at the health/organic food stores.
>
> Since the context was a question as to whether one could get half-sour
> pickles closer to SF than Northridge or Michigan, I'm not quite sure
> that Austin is the answer....
Uh, no. Mr. Stuffy. Your question was: "Are Ba Tampte half-sours
still to be found anywhere?". Which was followed by the name of A
national chain where one can't find them anymore (which coincidently
happens to be headquartered in Austin - where you *can* find them).
Have a chill pickle.
-sw (eating 1 each of the #3 and #5 Ba Tampte pickles now)
Sqwertz
Duh. Kosher laws, and all that.
-sw
Gary Brainin
Forgive my ignorance, but which kosher law(s) apply to pickles, and
require them to be refrigerated?
-Gary
Dan Abel
<70571292-0aa3-4443...@h40g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Gary Brainin <gary.b...@mailinator.com> wrote:
Good question, and I had no clue, so I asked Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_pickle
"Kosher dill
A "kosher" dill pickle (or "dickle") is not necessarily kosher in the
sense that it has been prepared under rabbinical supervision, which
would ensure that no non-kosher ingredients were used, and that no
utensil in contact with the pickles had ever been in contact with food
that was not kosher. Rather, it is a pickle made in the traditional
manner of Jewish New York City pickle makers, with generous addition of
garlic to the brine.[2][3]"
There was also reference to Kool Aid pickles, also mentioned in this
thread.
--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
da...@sonic.net
Sqwertz
The Kosher Law of Sarcasm. Page 496 section B, article 9.
-sw
Gary Brainin
Thank you for the lesson, Rebbe. I will study it and attempt to
use the knowledge well. L'shana Tovah.
-Gary
The Ranger
On Sep 17, 1:41 am, "The Ranger" <cuhulain_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1fbaee5a-214b-42e6...@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> [snip]
>
> > > For those who want more modulation to their
> > > pickle sourness, my wife says that Polish delis
> > > in Detroit sell pickles listed by the number of
> > > days they've been brining.
> > >
> > I'm sure they're well-worth the drive but isn't there something
> > a *little* closer than Michigan to get sour pickles?
> >
> Range -- you live within shouting distance of Cambrian Plaza right
> (the old-style one, with the Town & Country-look).
There's one there?! Damnation!
/gooja'ing
Sumbitch! Wednesdays 4-8! Coolness!
Thanks! I'll be sure to let those vendors know I was steered to 'em! ;)
The Ranger
Ian B MacLure
news:h8k7pg$t7f$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
> Do any know of a source for dry cured ham in the bay area, and at the
> best price? The only ongoing source I've seen lately is the Gwaltney
> at Ranch 99. Do any have a good mail order source?
Hmm, not the BA but Bristol Farms has had Edwards' Country Ham.
Might try a similar high end purveyor of comestibles to yupdom
in your vicinity.
IBM
Ian B MacLure
news:h8lsth$762$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
[snip]
> RE: country ham: The two country hams I have tried to cook have more
> or less been disasters. They ended up too dry and the meat fell apart.
> How do you do it?
I believe you're supposed to soak them prior to cooking.
IBM
Peter Lawrence
There's actually one Bristol Farms store in San Francisco, located in the
Westfield San Francisco Centre on Market Street.
http://www.bristolfarms.com/locations/san-francisco.html
- Peter
Ian B MacLure
news:h9uv9b$780$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
In Hell-A I can get to a Bristol Farms easier than a VONS.
IBM
Peter Lawrence
> Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote in
> news:h9uv9b$780$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> Ian B MacLure wrote:
>>>
>>> Hmm, not the BA but Bristol Farms has had Edwards' Country
>>> Ham. Might try a similar high end purveyor of comestibles to
>>> yupdom in your vicinity.
>>
>> the Westfield San Francisco Centre on Market Street.
>>
>> http://www.bristolfarms.com/locations/san-francisco.html
>
> In Hell-A I can get to a Bristol Farms easier than a VONS.
The same as in San Francisco.
;)
- Peter