What's up with bananas lately?
Gavin Scott
go directly from green to brown these days, bypassing the whole
traditional "banana yellow" step in the middle?
I'm wondering if there's some new preservation method being used
that is keeping them green longer, or if I'm hallucinating or what.
I would be inclined to believe the latter except I've now heard
other people comment that they've noticed the same thing.
G.
serene
> Is it just me, or have other people noticed that bananas seem to
> go directly from green to brown these days, bypassing the whole
> traditional "banana yellow" step in the middle?
James and I were wondering that just the other day. We don't buy as many
bananas now because of it.
serene
Steve Pope
>Gavin Scott <ga...@allegro.com> wrote:
I understand that bananas as we know them may become extinct
within a decade, because they've been cloned so many times
the gene pool is "wearing out" or something. Perhaps the
lack of yellowness is a symptom of this genetic shift.
S.
PeterL
Why would anyone waste the resource to clone bananas? They grow on
trees (as they say). There is no shortage.
The "gene pool is wearing out", I guess that's the technical term, for
whatever.
> S.
Jed
>Steve Pope wrote:
>> I understand that bananas as we know them may become extinct
>> within a decade, because they've been cloned so many times
>> the gene pool is "wearing out" or something. Perhaps the
>> lack of yellowness is a symptom of this genetic shift.
>>
>
>Why would anyone waste the resource to clone bananas? They grow on
>trees (as they say). There is no shortage.
>
>The "gene pool is wearing out", I guess that's the technical term, for
>whatever.
Excerpts from a longish article at Popular Science:
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,20967,1076199,00.html
"The banana as we know it is on a crash course toward extinction. For
scientists, the battle to resuscitate the world’s favorite fruit has
begun—a race against time that just may be too late to win.
[...]
"For nearly everyone in the U.S., Canada and Europe, a banana is a
banana: yellow and sweet, uniformly sized, firmly textured, always
seedless. Our banana, called the Cavendish, is one variety Aguilar
doesn’t grow here. “And for you,” says the chief banana breeder for
the Honduran Foundation for Agricultural Investigation (FHIA), "the
Cavendish is the banana."
[...]
"It doesn’t matter if it comes from Honduras or Thailand, Jamaica or
the Canary Islands—each Cavendish is an identical twin to one first
found in Southeast Asia, brought to a Caribbean botanic garden in the
early part of the 20th century, and put into commercial production
about 50 years ago.
[...]
"That sameness is the banana’s paradox. After 15,000 years of human
cultivation, the banana is too perfect, lacking the genetic diversity
that is key to species health. What can ail one banana can ail all. A
fungus or bacterial disease that infects one plantation could march
around the globe and destroy millions of bunches, leaving supermarket
shelves empty."
PeterL
Jed wrote:
> On 3 Aug 2005 14:03:16 -0700, "PeterL" <po....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Steve Pope wrote:
>
> >> I understand that bananas as we know them may become extinct
> >> within a decade, because they've been cloned so many times
> >> the gene pool is "wearing out" or something. Perhaps the
> >> lack of yellowness is a symptom of this genetic shift.
> >>
> >
> >Why would anyone waste the resource to clone bananas? They grow on
> >trees (as they say). There is no shortage.
> >
> >The "gene pool is wearing out", I guess that's the technical term, for
> >whatever.
>
> Excerpts from a longish article at Popular Science:
>
> http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,20967,1076199,00.html
well that's not "cloning".
>
> "The banana as we know it is on a crash course toward extinction. For
> scientists, the battle to resuscitate the world's favorite fruit has
> begun-a race against time that just may be too late to win.
>
> [...]
>
> "For nearly everyone in the U.S., Canada and Europe, a banana is a
> banana: yellow and sweet, uniformly sized, firmly textured, always
> seedless. Our banana, called the Cavendish, is one variety Aguilar
> doesn't grow here. "And for you," says the chief banana breeder for
> the Honduran Foundation for Agricultural Investigation (FHIA), "the
> Cavendish is the banana."
>
> [...]
>
> "It doesn't matter if it comes from Honduras or Thailand, Jamaica or
> the Canary Islands-each Cavendish is an identical twin to one first
Jed
>well that's not "cloning".
Yeah, so what?
Cloning wasn't the only damn issue.
dhi...@sonic.net
> well that's not "cloning".
Yes it is. All commercial bananas (of this variety) are clones of a
single ancestor plant. All "cloning" is not equal; cloning many types
of plants is trivial and people have been doing it for thousands of
years (i.e. cut off part of a plant, stick it in the ground, later get
another identical plant)
-- Dave
Pete Fraser
news:11f2a70...@news.supernews.com...
> Is it just me, or have other people noticed that bananas seem to
> go directly from green to brown these days, bypassing the whole
> traditional "banana yellow" step in the middle?
>
> I'm wondering if there's some new preservation method being used
> that is keeping them green longer, or if I'm hallucinating or what.
It seems to vary depending where I buy them.
Costco bananas never seem to go through an edible phase,
whereas Safeway's seem OK.
I've given up on Costco for bananas.
Guy Bannis
Jed <slot...@example.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 3 Aug 2005 14:03:16 -0700, "PeterL" <po....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Steve Pope wrote:
>
> >> I understand that bananas as we know them may become extinct
> >> within a decade, because they've been cloned so many times
> >> the gene pool is "wearing out" or something. Perhaps the
> >> lack of yellowness is a symptom of this genetic shift.
> >>
> >
> >Why would anyone waste the resource to clone bananas? They grow on
> >trees (as they say). There is no shortage.
> >
> >The "gene pool is wearing out", I guess that's the technical term, for
> >whatever.
>
> Excerpts from a longish article at Popular Science:
>
> http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,20967,1076199,00.html
You know, nothing in the article indicates that the "gene pool is
'wearing out.'"
It says that the entire supply of Cavendish bananas is vulnerable to a
single source of damage, be it a germ or mold or similar. That comes
with lack of genetic diversity but not weakness in the genes.
Weak genes, I would think, are usually associated with deformities or
sterility, neither of which afflicts the Cavendish banana.
Steve Pope
>> >Steve Pope wrote:
>> >> I understand that bananas as we know them may become extinct
>> >> within a decade, because they've been cloned so many times
>> >> the gene pool is "wearing out" or something.
>You know, nothing in the article indicates that the "gene pool is
>'wearing out.'"
That's why I included the qualifying phrase "or something".
Steve
Paulo da Costa
> In article <2ee2f1lp751en3th5...@4ax.com>,
> Jed <slot...@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>>http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,20967,1076199,00.html
>
> You know, nothing in the article indicates that the "gene pool is
> 'wearing out.'"
It has worn out long ago, for the Cavendish.
> Weak genes, I would think, are usually associated with deformities or
> sterility, neither of which afflicts the Cavendish banana.
The Cavendish, as the article points out, is completely sterile. Other
varieties still have a chance (short of genetic manipulation) because
they produce one seed for every 300 fruit.
ll
> It seems to vary depending where I buy them.
> Costco bananas never seem to go through an edible phase,
> whereas Safeway's seem OK.
> I've given up on Costco for bananas.
Much of Costco's produce goes bad quickly. Great prices,
poor quality. I suspect that it's how the produce is
transported and how it's stored once it gets there.
Joseph Michael Bay
>Jed wrote:
>> http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,20967,1076199,00.html
>well that's not "cloning".
The term "cloning" means different things in context -- with plants a
"clone" is sort of like a "breed", and cloning is a form of vegetative
propagation that's probably a bit trickier than planting a seed but is
nowhere near as hard as cloning a mammal.
--
Chimes peal joy. Bah. Joseph Michael Bay
Icy colon barge Cancer Biology
Frosty divine Saturn Stanford University
By reading this line you agree to mow my lawn. NO GIVEBACKS.
Joseph Michael Bay
>Guy Bannis <g...@ether.net> wrote:
>>> >Steve Pope wrote:
"Wearing out" isn't too bad a term, really -- the gene *pool*,
as opposed to the genome of a single organism, is a term that
describes, more or less, the genetic diversity available.
Of course since the Cavendish is sterile, one can't really
breed it. It would be possible to introduce genes from other
banana clones, or wild bananas, but then they'd be Genetically
Modified Scaryfoods. I'm not sure how the public would react
to a type of banana that was developed by something like cell
fusion.
Alison Chaiken
ga...@allegro.com (Gavin Scott) writes:
> Is it just me, or have other people noticed that bananas seem to go
> directly from green to brown these days, bypassing the whole
> traditional "banana yellow" step in the middle?
We're having this experience with bananas from Trader Joe's. First
the bananas were green, then they turned a uniform brown, not a spotty
yellow like most bananas. Here I went out of my way to buy the ones
that weren't labelled organic.
At least Trader Joe's fruit juices are excellent. I also picked up
some champagne at bargain prices from the Fremont location. Six or
eight varieties of champagne were on sale; I bought six of Korbel
Natural for $9 each. Haven't tasted it yet so perhaps it isn't a
bargain after all.
This afternoon I went to Raley's, which I visit specifically to buy
bulgur wheat in bulk. Alas, the bin was empty; no tabouleh for us.
Raley's strikes me as the most outlandlishly californicated store. I
mean, they have *organic* toaster pastries and *organic* cookies.
Yeah, eating organic sucrose is really going to improve your health.
--
Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid.
(650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/
Mr. Wilson [ . . . ] and even his wife's outing have as much to do with
the real story here as Janet Leigh's theft of office cash has to do
with the mayhem that ensues at the Bates Motel in "Psycho."
-- Frank Rich, NY Times, July 17
Steve Pope
>Raley's strikes me as the most outlandlishly californicated store. I
>mean, they have *organic* toaster pastries and *organic* cookies.
>Yeah, eating organic sucrose is really going to improve your health.
For some the motivation in buying organic items is not health,
but because the collateral effects on the environment are lesser.
Steve
Mark Lipton
> It says that the entire supply of Cavendish bananas is vulnerable to a
> single source of damage, be it a germ or mold or similar. That comes
> with lack of genetic diversity but not weakness in the genes.
Yes, the real issue is that there is a monoculture of Cavendish bananas,
which makes it especially vulnerable to pathogens. This is true for any
monoculture, of which there are quite a few in agriculture. The poster
child for this problem is the Russet potato, which grown almost to the
exclusion of other varieties in the US and which is primed for an attack
of potato blight, as detailed by Michael Pollan in his fascinating book,
"Botany of Desire."
>
> Weak genes, I would think, are usually associated with deformities or
> sterility, neither of which afflicts the Cavendish banana.
Genetic instability can be a feature instead of a problem. It affords
higher mutation rates which promotes diversity, after all. The apple is
a prime example of natural genetic instability (from Pollan again), as
is corn and our own immune system.
Mark Lipton
Mark Lipton
> Raley's strikes me as the most outlandlishly californicated store. I
> mean, they have *organic* toaster pastries and *organic* cookies.
> Yeah, eating organic sucrose is really going to improve your health.
That's interesting. Most of my exposure to Raley's came in the early
'80s, when I lived for 2 years in Modesto. At that time, they seemed to
be the quintessential Central Valley store, not something I'd associate
with Californication. Maybe as they've expanded their territory they've
adopted the habits of their competitors. And, as was already pointd
out, people buy organically grown products for a lot of reasons beyond
the (dubious) health benefits of such.
Mark Lipton
ObFood: Some of the best organic produce I've ever had came from Shell
Development's control plots for pesticide testing in Modesto. They'd
release the test plots to us employees, and we'd go out into the corn
fields with a backpacking stove and a pot of water to eat our corn as
fresh-picked as you could get it.
Guy Bannis
jm...@Stanford.EDU (Joseph Michael Bay) wrote:
> spo...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) writes:
>
> >Guy Bannis <g...@ether.net> wrote:
>
> >>> >Steve Pope wrote:
>
> >>> >> I understand that bananas as we know them may become extinct
> >>> >> within a decade, because they've been cloned so many times
> >>> >> the gene pool is "wearing out" or something.
>
> >>You know, nothing in the article indicates that the "gene pool is
> >>'wearing out.'"
>
> >That's why I included the qualifying phrase "or something".
>
> "Wearing out" isn't too bad a term, really -- the gene *pool*,
> as opposed to the genome of a single organism, is a term that
> describes, more or less, the genetic diversity available.
>
> Of course since the Cavendish is sterile, one can't really
> breed it. It would be possible to introduce genes from other
> banana clones, or wild bananas, but then they'd be Genetically
> Modified Scaryfoods. I'm not sure how the public would react
> to a type of banana that was developed by something like cell
> fusion.
From the UN Food and Agriculture Organization: "Banana is essentially a
clonal crop with many sterile species, which makes progress through
conventional breeding slow and difficult."
http://www.fao.org/english/newsroom/news/2003/13120-en.html
There is a strain of Fusarium wilt threatening Cavendishes but it's a
problem only seen in Southeast Asia so far.
Given that edible bananas in general come from seedless species or were
hybridized with sterile species, the Cavendish's sterility does not come
from a "weakening" of its gene pool.
BTW, it's interesting that people are scared of genetic modification
when we've essentially been doing the same thing with hybridization.
Steve Pope
>BTW, it's interesting that people are scared of genetic modification
>when we've essentially been doing the same thing with hybridization.
Hybridization does not result in mouse genes ending up in corn,
S.
Alison Chaiken
http://bayosphere.com/node/903
Covering such topics as the correct order of eating sushi, arm-shaving
in sushi chefs, the correct way to pour soy sauce, etc.
evergene
>http://bayosphere.com/node/903
>
>Covering such topics as the correct order of eating sushi, arm-shaving
>in sushi chefs, the correct way to pour soy sauce, etc.
And providing us with this connection to the discussion about food poisoning:
"In good sushi restaurant, they serve sushi directly on the counter (without any
plate)." - from Part II of "How to Eat Sushi."
Karen
Pete Fraser wrote:
> It seems to vary depending where I buy them.
> Costco bananas never seem to go through an edible phase,
> whereas Safeway's seem OK.
>
> I've given up on Costco for bananas.
Don't give up entirely. Safeway stores are air conditioned while Costco
warehouses are not. Things should get better for Costco bananas later
on in the year.
Karen
Karen
It's the hot August heat.
Karen
Karen
Pete Fraser wrote:
> I've given up on Costco for bananas.
Costco and Trader Joe's have a storage problem. The get the best stuff
and ruin it by the way they handle it.
Karen
Leila
That is the motivation, yes. However there are plenty of underinformed
middle class moms with elastic food budgets who buy the organic chips,
organic toaster pastries, and organic chicken nuggets because they
think they're "healthier." From what we're learning about processed
foods, your kids would be a lot better of with a slice of bread spread
with jelly, home popped popcorn (the unadulterated stuff) and baked
(hormone- and antibiotic-free) chicken.
There's a Thorsten Veblen element to buying all the processed, packaged
stuff. When you arrive at the kiddie park laden with small-label
juices, chips, and cookies, you are announcing to the other Moms that
you care enough about your children to spend lots of extra money on
their snacks. Our home made sandwiches, bulk purchased raisins, and
Food Mill bar cookies just don't broadcast the same message. But I have
an ideology behind it all so I'm one up on the simple conspicuous
consumer. (Since I care enough to notice the other's snacks, I must
care a little, right?)
Leila
Al Eisner
No, it takes restaurants or roach coaches to accomplish that. (I thought
I could merge two threads here.)
ObBananas: I really haven't noticed any problem with recent banana
purchases, which have tended to be from Draeger's (one of the few
produce items which is inexpensive enough so I don't mind buying it
there) or Sigona's.
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA
Guy Bannis
spo...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
Where did that remark come from?!
FYI, scientists have found naturally occurring crosses between "animal"
and "vegetable" genes.
SMS
> Pete Fraser wrote:
>
>>It seems to vary depending where I buy them.
>>Costco bananas never seem to go through an edible phase,
>>whereas Safeway's seem OK.
>>
>>I've given up on Costco for bananas.
>
>
> Don't give up entirely. Safeway stores are air conditioned while Costco
> warehouses are not.
Huh? What city are you in? The Costco's in the Bay Area are all
air-conditioned.
> Things should get better for Costco bananas later
> on in the year.
I have no problem with Costco bananas, other than they are usually very
green.
Michael Sierchio
> FYI, scientists have found naturally occurring crosses between "animal"
> and "vegetable" genes.
What are you talking about? We share 40% of our genes with seaweed.
No "cross" involved.
Martin Frankel
PeterL wrote:
> well that's not "cloning".
Yes it is.
"The term clone is used in horticulture to mean all descendants of a
single plant, produced by vegetative reproduction. Many horticultural
varieties of plants are clones, having been derived from a single
individual, multiplied by some process other than sexual reproduction.
As an example, some European varieties of grapes represent clones that
have been propagated for over two millennia. This is a genuine example
of cloning in the broader biological sense, as it creates genetically
identical organisms by biological means, but this particular kind of
cloning has not come under ethical scrutiny and is generally treated as
an entirely different kind of operation."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloning#Cloning_in_horticulture
Martin
Karen
SMS wrote:
> Huh? What city are you in? The Costco's in the Bay Area are all
> air-conditioned.
hmmmmmmm, Mountain View, Redwood City and Lawrence Expressway Costcos
aren't air-conditioned, I don't think. I used to work at the MV Costco
part-time, and it got pretty dang hot under those skylights in the
summertime.
I don't even think the warehouses are heated, are they? Isn't that why
they have the space heaters at the front door?
Seems like it would be cost prohibitive to cool/heat a warehouse, at
least around here where usually the temps are quite mild. That's a lot
of air to deal with.
Karen
ll
> What city are you in? The Costcos in the Bay Area are all
> air-conditioned.
The Danville Costco just got _some_ air conditioning a few
months ago. In both it and the Livermore Costco only a small
area has air conditioning. It holds _some_ fruits and vegetables.
Out on the floor, a much larger amount of fruits and
vegetables sit without A.C.
Even the air conditioned vegetables are often in poor condition.
Example: the bag of 5 heads of romaine. They usually look old.
With the turnover at Costco, you know they're not old. They have
probably been kept badly.
And then there's the beer. Those cases never see A.C.
at the Costcos that I've been to.
Guy Bannis
Michael Sierchio <kudzu-...@tenebras.com> wrote:
I don't mean crossing in that kind of ancestral sense but in the active
sense. You can look it up. I read about it in, of all places, The
Economist, in an article about genetic engineering.
Michael Sierchio
> I don't mean crossing in that kind of ancestral sense but in the active
> sense. You can look it up. I read about it in, of all places, The
> Economist, in an article about genetic engineering.
Oh, they've inserted bacteria genes into plants, etc. As long
as they don't fill in the missing dinosaur sequences with
amphibian DNA, I'm okay with that.
Guy Bannis
Michael Sierchio <kudzu-...@tenebras.com> wrote:
Not engineered by humans but by nature.
Joseph Michael Bay
>Raley's strikes me as the most outlandlishly californicated store. I
>mean, they have *organic* toaster pastries and *organic* cookies.
>Yeah, eating organic sucrose is really going to improve your health.
Much like Meg, a lot of people prefer to buy organic for reasons
other than their own health. I'm not sure how effective it is,
but there you go.
Joseph Michael Bay
>In article <dcrura$kfq$1...@news.Stanford.EDU>,
> jm...@Stanford.EDU (Joseph Michael Bay) wrote:
>> Of course since the Cavendish is sterile, one can't really
>> breed it. It would be possible to introduce genes from other
>> banana clones, or wild bananas, but then they'd be Genetically
>> Modified Scaryfoods. I'm not sure how the public would react
>> to a type of banana that was developed by something like cell
>> fusion.
>From the UN Food and Agriculture Organization: "Banana is essentially a
>clonal crop with many sterile species, which makes progress through
>conventional breeding slow and difficult."
>http://www.fao.org/english/newsroom/news/2003/13120-en.html
>There is a strain of Fusarium wilt threatening Cavendishes but it's a
>problem only seen in Southeast Asia so far.
I was sure it's hit South Africa already.
>Given that edible bananas in general come from seedless species or were
>hybridized with sterile species, the Cavendish's sterility does not come
>from a "weakening" of its gene pool.
The sterility is something that was selected for. Being sterile,
though, sharply limits its gene pool, to say the least.
>BTW, it's interesting that people are scared of genetic modification
>when we've essentially been doing the same thing with hybridization.
I think there's a difference of more than just degree --
you can cross corn with other corn for centuries and it won't
introduce genes from soybeans, peanuts, or bacteria.
Joseph Michael Bay
But that's not what we've been doing through hybridization; it's
a different phenomenon entirely.
Stef
Joseph Michael Bay <jm...@Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>Alison Chaiken
><alison+gnus20...@dailyplanet.dontspam.wsrcc.com> writes:
>
>>Raley's strikes me as the most outlandlishly californicated store. I
>>mean, they have *organic* toaster pastries and *organic* cookies.
>>Yeah, eating organic sucrose is really going to improve your health.
>
>Much like Meg, a lot of people prefer to buy organic for reasons
>other than their own health. I'm not sure how effective it is,
>but there you go.
Well, I suppose it's effective in that it keeps companies making organic
products. Whether that helps the environment...?
--
Stef ** avid/sensible/sensual/wise/essential/elemental/tangle
** st...@cat-and-dragon.com <*> http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef
**
You can't get eight cats to pull a sled. -- Jeff Valdez
Steve Pope
>Joseph Michael Bay <jm...@Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>>Much like Meg, a lot of people prefer to buy organic for reasons
>>other than their own health. I'm not sure how effective it is,
>>but there you go.
>Well, I suppose it's effective in that it keeps companies making organic
>products. Whether that helps the environment...?
Agricultural chemicals have been very damaging to the environment.
Whether organic labeling laws are strict enough to affect
results is another question.
Steve
Joseph Michael Bay
>Stef <st...@cat-and-dragon.com> wrote:
My worry about the value of buying organic is that maybe it's sort
of like being the one guy at the campsite who doesn't crap right
next to the stream.
Guy Bannis
jm...@Stanford.EDU (Joseph Michael Bay) wrote:
> Guy Bannis <g...@ether.net> writes:
>
> >In article <dcs74i$4k5$1...@blue.rahul.net>,
> > spo...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
> >> Guy Bannis <g...@ether.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >BTW, it's interesting that people are scared of genetic modification
> >> >when we've essentially been doing the same thing with hybridization.
> >>
> >> Hybridization does not result in mouse genes ending up in corn,
> >>
> >> S.
>
> >Where did that remark come from?!
>
> >FYI, scientists have found naturally occurring crosses between "animal"
> >and "vegetable" genes.
>
> But that's not what we've been doing through hybridization; it's
> a different phenomenon entirely.
Notice I said "naturally occurring" ...
Guy Bannis
spo...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
Agriculture has been very damaging to the environment!
Steve Pope
> spo...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
>> Agricultural chemicals have been very damaging to the environment.
>> Whether organic labeling laws are strict enough to affect
>> results is another question.
>Agriculture has been very damaging to the environment!
That's true, there has been much habitat loss due to
agriculture. And until we put a lid on the human
population that will continue.
S.
Joseph Michael Bay
>In article <dd0b2v$o21$1...@news.Stanford.EDU>,
> jm...@Stanford.EDU (Joseph Michael Bay) wrote:
>> Guy Bannis <g...@ether.net> writes:
>>
>> >In article <dcs74i$4k5$1...@blue.rahul.net>,
>> > spo...@speedymail.org (Steve Pope) wrote:
>>
>> >> Guy Bannis <g...@ether.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >BTW, it's interesting that people are scared of genetic modification
>> >> >when we've essentially been doing the same thing with hybridization.
>> >>
>> >> Hybridization does not result in mouse genes ending up in corn,
>> >>
>> >> S.
>>
>> >Where did that remark come from?!
>>
>> >FYI, scientists have found naturally occurring crosses between "animal"
>> >and "vegetable" genes.
>>
>> But that's not what we've been doing through hybridization; it's
>> a different phenomenon entirely.
>Notice I said "naturally occurring" ...
Exactly -- *we* weren't doing it.
rone
Gavin Scott <ga...@allegro.com> wrote:
>Is it just me, or have other people noticed that bananas seem to
>go directly from green to brown these days, bypassing the whole
>traditional "banana yellow" step in the middle?
It's just you. Or maybe the bananas you buy.
rone
--
"If the movie was an episode of 'Battlestar Galactica' with a guest appearance
by the Smurfs and everyone spoke Dutch, the graphic novel is 'Citizen Kane'
with added sex scenes and music by your favourite ten bands and everyone in
the world you ever hated dies at the end." -- Warren Ellis, on 'From Hell'
rone
Joseph Michael Bay <jm...@Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>Guy Bannis <g...@ether.net> writes:
>>Notice I said "naturally occurring" ...
Ah, at some point humans stopped being part of nature. Gotcha.
Guy Bannis
wrote:
> In article <dd1ale$m1u$1...@news.stanford.edu>,
> Joseph Michael Bay <jm...@Stanford.EDU> wrote:
> >Guy Bannis <g...@ether.net> writes:
> >>Notice I said "naturally occurring" ...
> >Exactly -- *we* weren't doing it.
>
> Ah, at some point humans stopped being part of nature. Gotcha.
Yeah, you can play with words but the point remains.
Betty Lee
+ Karen wrote:
+ > Things should get better for Costco bananas later
+ > on in the year.
But they won't. I've noticed this problem with bananas and a lot of
other fruits I buy from Costco. If they're not ripe at the store before
being bought, they keep looking underripe until they're suddenly overripe
and rotting.
+ I have no problem with Costco bananas, other than they are usually very
+ green.
Do you eat them while they're still green? Even during winter, Costco
bananas (in particular) are very weird. They're green, green, green,
brown/dead/rotten. I used to buy underripe Costco fruits so they can
slowly ripen, but that just doesn't work. I've tried experimenting with
the bananas by putting them in the refrigerator when they're still green
to see if that will slow down their ripening, but putting them in the
fridge seems to turn them into a solid brown overnight. I don't know
if that's normal for bananas, though -- I've never tried to refrigerate
normal bananas.
I've shopped at Costco during weekdays a few times, and I noticed a very
big difference between quality of Costco produce during weekdays and
weekends. Costco produce seems to look significantly better on weekdays,
and they seem to behave better too. During weekends, however, I get
these strange fruits that go from green to brown with basically no ripe
stage in between. Maybe they do something to the fruits to make them
last the weekend.
So, my tips would be to only buy ready-to-eat fruits from Costco (don't
buy green fruits and expect them to ripen) and to shop on weekdays
to increase the chances of finding good-looking ready-to-eat fruits.
I've been getting boxes of rather tasty peaches from Costco recently.
I found it funny that the peach boxes say, "I'm ripe".
Robert Klute
<bett...@netflight.com> wrote:
>SMS <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>+ Karen wrote:
>+ > Things should get better for Costco bananas later
>+ > on in the year.
>
>But they won't. I've noticed this problem with bananas and a lot of
>other fruits I buy from Costco. If they're not ripe at the store before
>being bought, they keep looking underripe until they're suddenly overripe
>and rotting.
>
>+ I have no problem with Costco bananas, other than they are usually very
>+ green.
>
>Do you eat them while they're still green? Even during winter, Costco
>bananas (in particular) are very weird. They're green, green, green,
>brown/dead/rotten. I used to buy underripe Costco fruits so they can
>slowly ripen, but that just doesn't work. I've tried experimenting with
>the bananas by putting them in the refrigerator when they're still green
>to see if that will slow down their ripening, but putting them in the
>fridge seems to turn them into a solid brown overnight. I don't know
>if that's normal for bananas, though -- I've never tried to refrigerate
>normal bananas.
>
I thought green straight to brown/grey was a symptom of being
refrigerated below 54F.
Todd Michel McComb
Betty Lee <bett...@netflight.com> wrote:
>I don't know if that's normal for bananas, though -- I've never
>tried to refrigerate normal bananas.
That is normal; you cannot refrigerate bananas (unless you want
them brown, that is).
You might try putting them in a brown paper bag to ripen. I haven't
tried it, but it might work.
Betty Lee
+ Betty Lee <bett...@netflight.com> wrote:
+ >I don't know if that's normal for bananas, though -- I've never
+ >tried to refrigerate normal bananas.
+
+ That is normal; you cannot refrigerate bananas (unless you want
+ them brown, that is).
+
+ You might try putting them in a brown paper bag to ripen. I haven't
+ tried it, but it might work.
Interesting. Thanks for the information! I'll try that.
(I wonder if the brown bag would work for mangos too...)
Al Eisner
Ah, rumors. Perhaps a yellow paper bag would be better, to encourage
them properly.
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA
Betty Lee
[about refrigerating green bananas]
+ I thought green straight to brown/grey was a symptom of being
+ refrigerated below 54F.
OK, you've inspired me to do some web searching. :-)
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbanana.html
http://sarasota.extension.ufl.edu/FCS/FlaFoodFare/Banana.htm
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/04.29.99/dining-9917.html
http://www.chiquita.com/chiquita/Discover/cbripen.asp
(Boy, the web pages sure sound a lot alike.)
You're right. Bananas in the refrigerator go straight to brown without
ripening. Refrigerating ripe bananas will brown them, but in that case,
brown apparently doesn't mean they're bad. And, bananas are apparently
shipped in refrigerated trucks. I suppose, if the temperature is wrong
or if shipping takes too long, it seems reasonable that the journey
might possibly confuse the banana's normal ripening processes and cause
the green-to-brown phenomenon we're seeing, even if we ourselves don't
subject the banana to refrigeration. So, maybe it's not a problem
with genetic modifications or strange chemicals in the banana itself.
It also might explain why I disagree that the problem is likely to clear
up during winter. If it's a shipping problem, then it might also be
possible that the problem might get worse during winter instead of better
because bananas might have to be shipped from further away then.
Betty Lee
+ On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Todd Michel McComb wrote:
+ > Betty Lee <bett...@netflight.com> wrote:
+ > >I don't know if that's normal for bananas, though -- I've never
+ > >tried to refrigerate normal bananas.
+ >
+ > That is normal; you cannot refrigerate bananas (unless you want
+ > them brown, that is).
+ >
+ > tried it, but it might work.
+
+ Ah, rumors. Perhaps a yellow paper bag would be better, to encourage
+ them properly.
Nah, "going bananas" doesn't exactly imply following the crowd. So,
proper encouragement would be to lock it up with a red apple or tomato
instead. ;-)
rone
Instead of dismissing the above as rumor with a clever quip, you
could, of course, try to ascertain the truth in the above suggestion.
Googling for 'banana ripen "brown paper bag"' yields
<http://www.eatmorebananas.com/facts/care.htm>:
If you want to ripen a banana quickly, put it in a brown paper bag
with an apple or tomato overnight (out of direct sunlight). The two
will work together to speed the ripening of each other.
Apples give off ethylene gas, which helps ripen bananas and other fruit.
Joseph Michael Bay
>In article <Pine.GSO.4.58.05...@flora05.slac.stanford.edu>,
>Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Todd Michel McComb wrote:
>>> You might try putting them in a brown paper bag to ripen. I haven't
>>> tried it, but it might work.
>>Ah, rumors. Perhaps a yellow paper bag would be better, to encourage
>>them properly.
>Instead of dismissing the above as rumor with a clever quip, you
>could, of course, try to ascertain the truth in the above suggestion.
>Googling for 'banana ripen "brown paper bag"' yields
><http://www.eatmorebananas.com/facts/care.htm>:
> If you want to ripen a banana quickly, put it in a brown paper bag
> with an apple or tomato overnight (out of direct sunlight). The two
> will work together to speed the ripening of each other.
>Apples give off ethylene gas, which helps ripen bananas and other fruit.
Also if you burn a bunch of kerosene you can get that. The apple
is probably a safer method though.
Ernie Klein
> SMS <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> + Karen wrote:
> + > Things should get better for Costco bananas later
> + > on in the year.
>
> But they won't. I've noticed this problem with bananas and a lot of
> other fruits I buy from Costco. If they're not ripe at the store before
> being bought, they keep looking underripe until they're suddenly overripe
> and rotting.
>
My experience also. I hate ripe bananas, i.e. yellow or yellow with a
few black spots. Those are too ripe for me. Semi-green is what I like.
Usually I buy the greenest bananas I can find at Albersons and in a day
or two they are ready to eat and last 3 or 4 days before they become too
ripe.
Not with Costco. I had never purchased bananas at Costco before, but a
week ago they had bananas that were quite green and looked great. They
were much too green to eat when I bought them, but one day later they
were yellow with black spots and much too ripe for my liking. I've
never seen such a banana transformation before in my life. I would have
thought it an oddity, except for this thread and other's experiences
with Costco's bananas.
--
-Ernie-
"There are only two kinds of computer users -- those who have
suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure, and those who will."
Have you done your backup today?
SMS
> I have no problem with Costco bananas, other than they are usually very
> green.
I take that back. I do notice that they go from green to brown now. Del
Monte and Dole don't have such problems.
rone
Joseph Michael Bay <jm...@Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>>Apples give off ethylene gas, which helps ripen bananas and other fruit.
>Also if you burn a bunch of kerosene you can get that. The apple
>is probably a safer method though.
I keep a lot of ethylene on hand because that's what the Reptoids from
Zeta Reticuli breathe.
rone
obfood: humans... err, i mean, human food
Todd Michel McComb
>If you want to ripen a banana quickly, put it in a brown paper bag
Well, yes, I knew that part (although I hadn't tried using the
apple). I just don't know about the issues people are apparently
having with Costco bananas in particular, so maybe it won't help
with them.
Joseph Michael Bay
>In article <ddeeml$m1$1...@news.stanford.edu>,
>Joseph Michael Bay <jm...@Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>>"rone" <^*&#$@ennui.org> writes:
>>>Apples give off ethylene gas, which helps ripen bananas and other fruit.
>>Also if you burn a bunch of kerosene you can get that. The apple
>>is probably a safer method though.
>I keep a lot of ethylene on hand because that's what the Reptoids from
>Zeta Reticuli breathe.
>rone
>obfood: humans... err, i mean, human food
Yes, fellow human! I also enjoy eating human food, such as earth cows
and earth bananas. I mean bananas! What other kind are there, heh heh?
Al Eisner
> In article <Pine.GSO.4.58.05...@flora05.slac.stanford.edu>,
> Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Todd Michel McComb wrote:
> >> You might try putting them in a brown paper bag to ripen. I haven't
> >> tried it, but it might work.
> >Ah, rumors. Perhaps a yellow paper bag would be better, to encourage
> >them properly.
>
> Instead of dismissing the above as rumor with a clever quip, you
> could, of course, try to ascertain the truth in the above suggestion.
How about "In addition to" rather than "Instead of"? Let's at least
have some fun here!
> Googling for 'banana ripen "brown paper bag"' yields
> <http://www.eatmorebananas.com/facts/care.htm>:
>
> If you want to ripen a banana quickly, put it in a brown paper bag
> with an apple or tomato overnight (out of direct sunlight). The two
> will work together to speed the ripening of each other.
>
> Apples give off ethylene gas, which helps ripen bananas and other fruit.
But I doubt if a brown paper bag by itself would accomplish this.
Also, I suspect that this method would not solve the problem being
discussed, i.e., a much-too-rapid passage through the "ripe" stage
(or perhaps even the bypassing of that stage). Just in case it might,
however, I'd suggest someone with the Costco bananas trying the
experiment -- it's simple enough.
rone
Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>But I doubt if a brown paper bag by itself would accomplish this.
It would probably help keep the ethylene the banana gives off around
it. It won't be as effective as putting something else in the bag,
but it's probably better than leaving it out on the counter.
>Just in case it might, however, I'd suggest someone with the Costco
>bananas trying the experiment -- it's simple enough.
Indeed. Science is easy -- and fun!
SMS
> I bought some bananas at the SF Costco last Wednesday. I selected a bunch
> where the bananas were a mixture of yellow and green in color. I am happy
> to report that all the bananas ripened normally. I had the last one today -
> it was yellow with black spots, and just slightly overripe.
>
> Anyway, for the victims of the Costco mutant banana conspiracy, here's my
> recipe for banana bread:
<snip>
I just put them in the blender with ice, orange juice, and yogurt, and
make smoothies.
Alison Chaiken
"rone" <^*&#$@ennui.org> writes:
> It would probably help keep the ethylene the banana gives off around
> it. It won't be as effective as putting something else in the bag,
> but it's probably better than leaving it out on the counter.
Can you breathe into the same paper bag to control hiccups, or will
the bag be used up by the bananas? The experiment is easy enough to
try.
ObFood: Sierra Nevada Summerfest, light but with just the right note
of bitterness.
--
Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid.
(650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/
Mr. Wilson [ . . . ] and even his wife's outing have as much to do with
the real story here as Janet Leigh's theft of office cash has to do
with the mayhem that ensues at the Bates Motel in "Psycho."
-- Frank Rich, NY Times, July 17
Al Eisner
> ObFood: Sierra Nevada Summerfest, light but with just the right note
> of bitterness.
Hmmm -- summer, fest, beer.... Does anyone know if the Mountain View
Small Brewers Fest is simply not occurring this year? I've found nothing
on the web. I know they previously had skipped a year, but I thought
they had gone back to an annual schedule.
jswa...@yahoo.com
Al Eisner wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2005, Alison Chaiken wrote:
>
> > ObFood: Sierra Nevada Summerfest, light but with just the right note
> > of bitterness.
>
> Hmmm -- summer, fest, beer.... Does anyone know if the Mountain View
> Small Brewers Fest is simply not occurring this year?
Its simply not happening.
> I've found nothing
> on the web. I know they previously had skipped a year, but I thought
> they had gone back to an annual schedule.
I don't know anything about the future SBF's.
I'll just have to go to Speakeasy's anniversary party on the 20th
instead.
Pete Fraser
news:ddfu04$c1c$1...@agricola.medieval.org...
I tried it about a year ago.
They still go from green to rotten overnight.
It just happens sooner.
Pete Fraser
news:Q3TKe.8799$p%3.3...@typhoon.sonic.net...
> David DiGiacomo wrote:
>
> I just put them in the blender with ice, orange juice, and yogurt, and
> make smoothies.
That doesn't work with unripe bananas though.
Your smoothies just taste of unripe banana.
The folks at the Blue Nile in Berkeley never learned this.
rone
Pete Fraser <pfr...@covad.net> wrote:
>"Todd Michel McComb" <mcc...@medieval.org> wrote in message
>news:ddfu04$c1c$1...@agricola.medieval.org...
>> apple). I just don't know about the issues people are apparently
>> having with Costco bananas in particular, so maybe it won't help
>> with them.
>I tried it about a year ago.
>They still go from green to rotten overnight.
>It just happens sooner.
Our experience with the quality of Costco fruit is hit-and-miss. And,
anyway, it's hard to eat that much fruit unless you have a bunch of
kids in the house (which we did for a while).
rone
--
I never noticed the size of my feet
`Til i kicked you in the shins
SMS
> "SMS" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:Q3TKe.8799$p%3.3...@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
>>David DiGiacomo wrote:
>
>
>>I just put them in the blender with ice, orange juice, and yogurt, and
>>make smoothies.
>
>
> That doesn't work with unripe bananas though.
> Your smoothies just taste of unripe banana.
It works fine with brown bananas.