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Electro-Voice RE20
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chris319
May 20, 2012, 2:30:27 PM5/20/12
to
This being a board about broadcasting, I imagine an post about an
actual engineering topic wouldn't be out of place here, even though it
has nothing to do with child-molesting music teachers or sauerkraut.
Take note of post #14 in this thread about the Electro-Voice RE20, a
commonly-used mic in radio broadcasting. I know MicDaddy. He works for
E-V.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/719912-ev-re20-noise.html#post7897474
actual engineering topic wouldn't be out of place here, even though it
has nothing to do with child-molesting music teachers or sauerkraut.
Take note of post #14 in this thread about the Electro-Voice RE20, a
commonly-used mic in radio broadcasting. I know MicDaddy. He works for
E-V.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/719912-ev-re20-noise.html#post7897474
John Higdon
May 20, 2012, 6:23:29 PM5/20/12
to
In article
<e90e3570-d215-47c4...@x6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>,
SM-7B. Not only does the microphone seem to be more impervious to stray
magnetic fields, it is a better-sounding microphone for voice. I have
never been a fan of the RE-20 and frankly I have never seen what the
attraction is. Many stations use them, but not mine. When I came on
board here, the first things to go were the RE-20s. The air staff, in
chorus, proclaimed "wow...what a difference".
But the most unruly mics I ever had to use were Sony C37A (large
diaphram capacitor studio mics). While these units can't be beat for
recording symphony orchestras, they are damned near impossible to make
the human voice sound pleasing in a studio utilizing them.
--
John Higdon
+1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
<e90e3570-d215-47c4...@x6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>,
chris319 <c319...@aol.com> wrote:
> Take note of post #14 in this thread about the Electro-Voice RE20, a
> commonly-used mic in radio broadcasting. I know MicDaddy. He works for
> E-V.
>
> http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/719912-ev-re20-noise.html#post7897474
Unfortunately, I have to agree with the recommendation to try a Shure
> Take note of post #14 in this thread about the Electro-Voice RE20, a
> commonly-used mic in radio broadcasting. I know MicDaddy. He works for
> E-V.
>
> http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/719912-ev-re20-noise.html#post7897474
SM-7B. Not only does the microphone seem to be more impervious to stray
magnetic fields, it is a better-sounding microphone for voice. I have
never been a fan of the RE-20 and frankly I have never seen what the
attraction is. Many stations use them, but not mine. When I came on
board here, the first things to go were the RE-20s. The air staff, in
chorus, proclaimed "wow...what a difference".
But the most unruly mics I ever had to use were Sony C37A (large
diaphram capacitor studio mics). While these units can't be beat for
recording symphony orchestras, they are damned near impossible to make
the human voice sound pleasing in a studio utilizing them.
--
John Higdon
+1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
chris319
May 20, 2012, 8:16:20 PM5/20/12
to
I take it you replaced the RE20s with SM7Bs?
The guys who do high-high-end symphony recording don't use large-
diaphragm condensers at all, so they would never go near a Sony C37A.
Most of them use Schoeps small-diaphragm condensers, a few use DPA
(formerly B&K) and not very many use Neumanns.
Dynamics seem to be the most popular mic for radio work. You
absolutely can't go wrong with an SM7B as a voice mic. A lot of voice-
over people like the Sennheiser MKH416 short shotgun condenser but it
has never become popular in radio studios. Radio people who don't know
any better tend to have a lockstep preference for the RE20. Whatever
the mic, plosive resistance is a big factor. Plosives are to be
avoided like the plague in all voice and musical vocal work.
The Sennheiser MD421 also deserves honorable mention. Heil Sound mics
should be avoided at all costs in my opinion, especially the PR20 and
PR40. Don't fall for the Heil hype; don't drink the Heil Sound Kool-
Aid.
On May 20, 3:23 pm, John Higdon <hi...@kome.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately, I have to agree with the recommendation to try a Shure
> SM-7B. Not only does the microphone seem to be more impervious to stray
> magnetic fields, it is a better-sounding microphone for voice. I have
> never been a fan of the RE-20 and frankly I have never seen what the
> attraction is. Many stations use them, but not mine. When I came on
> board here, the first things to go were the RE-20s. The air staff, in
> chorus, proclaimed "wow...what a difference".
>
> But the most unruly mics I ever had to use were Sony C37A (large
> diaphragm capacitor studio mics). While these units can't be beat for
The guys who do high-high-end symphony recording don't use large-
diaphragm condensers at all, so they would never go near a Sony C37A.
Most of them use Schoeps small-diaphragm condensers, a few use DPA
(formerly B&K) and not very many use Neumanns.
Dynamics seem to be the most popular mic for radio work. You
absolutely can't go wrong with an SM7B as a voice mic. A lot of voice-
over people like the Sennheiser MKH416 short shotgun condenser but it
has never become popular in radio studios. Radio people who don't know
any better tend to have a lockstep preference for the RE20. Whatever
the mic, plosive resistance is a big factor. Plosives are to be
avoided like the plague in all voice and musical vocal work.
The Sennheiser MD421 also deserves honorable mention. Heil Sound mics
should be avoided at all costs in my opinion, especially the PR20 and
PR40. Don't fall for the Heil hype; don't drink the Heil Sound Kool-
Aid.
On May 20, 3:23 pm, John Higdon <hi...@kome.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately, I have to agree with the recommendation to try a Shure
> SM-7B. Not only does the microphone seem to be more impervious to stray
> magnetic fields, it is a better-sounding microphone for voice. I have
> never been a fan of the RE-20 and frankly I have never seen what the
> attraction is. Many stations use them, but not mine. When I came on
> board here, the first things to go were the RE-20s. The air staff, in
> chorus, proclaimed "wow...what a difference".
>
> But the most unruly mics I ever had to use were Sony C37A (large
John Higdon
May 20, 2012, 9:08:28 PM5/20/12
to
In article
<f32d9e9e-8f74-428f...@n5g2000pbg.googlegroups.com>,
(under Cleve) for years. Sounded pretty damned good to me.
> The Sennheiser MD421 also deserves honorable mention.
The old KBAY loved those mikes. However, I discovered that no two
sounded anywhere near alike. If you couldn't get one to sound right,
just pop in another and you would probably be OK.
> Heil Sound mics
> should be avoided at all costs in my opinion, especially the PR20 and
> PR40. Don't fall for the Heil hype; don't drink the Heil Sound Kool-
> Aid.
KKUP uses them (not my decision...I'm a board member, not the engineer)
and they sound OK to me. They're only used for voice, I believe.
--
John Higdon
+1 415 852-3811
<f32d9e9e-8f74-428f...@n5g2000pbg.googlegroups.com>,
chris319 <c319...@aol.com> wrote:
> The guys who do high-high-end symphony recording don't use large-
> diaphragm condensers at all, so they would never go near a Sony C37A.
Could you reveal why? I used my C27As for recording the SJ Symphony
> The guys who do high-high-end symphony recording don't use large-
> diaphragm condensers at all, so they would never go near a Sony C37A.
(under Cleve) for years. Sounded pretty damned good to me.
> The Sennheiser MD421 also deserves honorable mention.
sounded anywhere near alike. If you couldn't get one to sound right,
just pop in another and you would probably be OK.
> Heil Sound mics
> should be avoided at all costs in my opinion, especially the PR20 and
> PR40. Don't fall for the Heil hype; don't drink the Heil Sound Kool-
> Aid.
and they sound OK to me. They're only used for voice, I believe.
--
John Higdon
+1 415 852-3811
D. Peter Maus
May 20, 2012, 9:21:12 PM5/20/12
to
On 5/20/12 17:23 , John Higdon wrote:
> In article
> <e90e3570-d215-47c4...@x6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>,
> chris319 <c319...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Take note of post #14 in this thread about the Electro-Voice RE20, a
>> commonly-used mic in radio broadcasting. I know MicDaddy. He works for
>> E-V.
>>
>> http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/719912-ev-re20-noise.html#post7897474
>
> Unfortunately, I have to agree with the recommendation to try a Shure
> SM-7B. Not only does the microphone seem to be more impervious to stray
> magnetic fields, it is a better-sounding microphone for voice. I have
> never been a fan of the RE-20 and frankly I have never seen what the
> attraction is. Many stations use them, but not mine. When I came on
> board here, the first things to go were the RE-20s. The air staff, in
> chorus, proclaimed "wow...what a difference".
Electrovoice -- I want to say it was durng the 70's -- put a good
> In article
> <e90e3570-d215-47c4...@x6g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>,
> chris319 <c319...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Take note of post #14 in this thread about the Electro-Voice RE20, a
>> commonly-used mic in radio broadcasting. I know MicDaddy. He works for
>> E-V.
>>
>> http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/719912-ev-re20-noise.html#post7897474
>
> Unfortunately, I have to agree with the recommendation to try a Shure
> SM-7B. Not only does the microphone seem to be more impervious to stray
> magnetic fields, it is a better-sounding microphone for voice. I have
> never been a fan of the RE-20 and frankly I have never seen what the
> attraction is. Many stations use them, but not mine. When I came on
> board here, the first things to go were the RE-20s. The air staff, in
> chorus, proclaimed "wow...what a difference".
deal of effort into getting RE-20's into radio stations. There were
price/volume bonuses, and SM-5B and SM-7 were expensive. So,
stations picked them up in droves. A number of my stations used
them. And abandoned them, when I brought my SM-7 into the production
studio. Once the work hit the air, jocks and manglement took notice.
And changes were made.
Over the years, I evaluated a lot of microphones for my stations.
RE-20's were always on the list by manglement and engineering
specification, but I found them to be, sonically, wildly
inconsistent unit to unit, and within production runs, and prone to
significant sonic change over time. SM-7's were/are more consistent
unit to unit, within and without production runs, and were more
likely to retain their sonics. They were also more likely to produce
a good sound with a jock's poor mic technique.
Every station I worked at, eventually found their ways to SM-7's.
>
> But the most unruly mics I ever had to use were Sony C37A (large
> diaphram capacitor studio mics). While these units can't be beat for
> recording symphony orchestras, they are damned near impossible to make
> the human voice sound pleasing in a studio utilizing them.
at radio know how to use them. Or have the mic techniques necessary
to bring out the great potential built into them. I don't know how
many times I tried to find a workable large diaphragm capacitor mic
for on-air and production use at radio stations. The mics were
great. The techniques applied to them...not so much.
I had a manager who noticed that Howard Stern was using a Neumann
when his radio show was on television. So, he ordered that one be
acquired for evaluation in the main on-air studio. I believe it was
a U-87. He about had a stroke on the price.
Not nearly as bad as the stroke the engineer had when he caught a
weekender spraying Lysol in to that Neumann microphone the week it
was installed.
>
John Higdon
May 20, 2012, 9:39:57 PM5/20/12
to
In article <jpc5a9$mfs$1...@dont-email.me>,
(the squatier-looking mics) on the shelf. He couldn't wait to get his
hands on them. We put them on the air and they sounded terrible. Turns
out they had considerable abuse and all needed to be refurbished. For
the amount of money that cost, we could have bought a case of SM-7s.
After the refurbishing, bad technique still had them performing well
below that of the SM-7s they replaced. After the PD left, I sent them
off to other stations and reinstalled the SM-7s. That whole episode no
doubt had far more to do with phallic prowess than it did with audio
quality on the air.
> Not nearly as bad as the stroke the engineer had when he caught a
> weekender spraying Lysol in to that Neumann microphone the week it
> was installed.
Which is why they have to be sent off frequently for repair. Few
stations can afford to use Neumanns, even if they get them "free" from
another station in the group.
"D. Peter Maus" <dpete...@att.net> wrote:
> I had a manager who noticed that Howard Stern was using a Neumann
> when his radio show was on television. So, he ordered that one be
> acquired for evaluation in the main on-air studio. I believe it was
> a U-87. He about had a stroke on the price.
At KOME, the PD discovered that sister station, WBCN, had Neumann U-47s
> I had a manager who noticed that Howard Stern was using a Neumann
> when his radio show was on television. So, he ordered that one be
> acquired for evaluation in the main on-air studio. I believe it was
> a U-87. He about had a stroke on the price.
(the squatier-looking mics) on the shelf. He couldn't wait to get his
hands on them. We put them on the air and they sounded terrible. Turns
out they had considerable abuse and all needed to be refurbished. For
the amount of money that cost, we could have bought a case of SM-7s.
After the refurbishing, bad technique still had them performing well
below that of the SM-7s they replaced. After the PD left, I sent them
off to other stations and reinstalled the SM-7s. That whole episode no
doubt had far more to do with phallic prowess than it did with audio
quality on the air.
> Not nearly as bad as the stroke the engineer had when he caught a
> weekender spraying Lysol in to that Neumann microphone the week it
> was installed.
stations can afford to use Neumanns, even if they get them "free" from
another station in the group.
Jeff Liebermann
May 21, 2012, 12:01:55 AM5/21/12
to
On Sun, 20 May 2012 20:21:12 -0500, "D. Peter Maus"
<dpete...@att.net> wrote:
>There were
>price/volume bonuses, and SM-5B and SM-7 were expensive.
Then, there are counterfeit mics.
<dpete...@att.net> wrote:
>There were
>price/volume bonuses, and SM-5B and SM-7 were expensive.
"Shure SM58, How to spot the fake." (13 min):
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whfm6F-wK6g>
> I had a manager who noticed that Howard Stern was using a Neumann
>when his radio show was on television. So, he ordered that one be
>acquired for evaluation in the main on-air studio. I believe it was
>a U-87. He about had a stroke on the price.
"How a Neumann U87 microphone is manufactured" (5 min):
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvtjHhtxmpI>
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
chris319
May 21, 2012, 12:31:35 AM5/21/12
to
Classical recordists prefer the faster transient response of SDC's.
The tradeoff is that SDC's are noisier. A lot of them rave about the
DPA 4060, believe it or not:
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=item&category=193&item=24035
On Leo Laporte's current venture, Twit TV, there is a show called Ham
Nation hosted by none other than Bob Heil himself. Guess what brand of
mics they use on Ham Nation? Why Heil Sound, of course. The mics sound
terribly colored to me with lots of proximity effect, and the plosives
drive me nuts. Heil makes one mic, the PR30, which is not half bad. It
has a warm ribbon-y sound (due presumably to proximity effect). If
KKUP uses PR30's then you're not as bad off.
On May 20, 6:08 pm, John Higdon <hi...@kome.com> wrote:
> In article
> <f32d9e9e-8f74-428f-b5da-3c3c360bc...@n5g2000pbg.googlegroups.com>,
The tradeoff is that SDC's are noisier. A lot of them rave about the
DPA 4060, believe it or not:
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=item&category=193&item=24035
On Leo Laporte's current venture, Twit TV, there is a show called Ham
Nation hosted by none other than Bob Heil himself. Guess what brand of
mics they use on Ham Nation? Why Heil Sound, of course. The mics sound
terribly colored to me with lots of proximity effect, and the plosives
drive me nuts. Heil makes one mic, the PR30, which is not half bad. It
has a warm ribbon-y sound (due presumably to proximity effect). If
KKUP uses PR30's then you're not as bad off.
On May 20, 6:08 pm, John Higdon <hi...@kome.com> wrote:
> In article
> <f32d9e9e-8f74-428f-b5da-3c3c360bc...@n5g2000pbg.googlegroups.com>,
David Kaye
May 21, 2012, 1:46:47 AM5/21/12
to
"chris319" <c319...@aol.com> wrote
> This being a board about broadcasting, I imagine an post about an
> actual engineering topic wouldn't be out of place here [....]
Congratulations for actually STARTING a thread instead of bitching a streak
about an existing one.
> This being a board about broadcasting, I imagine an post about an
Congratulations for actually STARTING a thread instead of bitching a streak
about an existing one.
David Kaye
May 21, 2012, 1:58:32 AM5/21/12
to
"chris319" <c319...@aol.com> wrote
> Take note of post #14 in this thread about the Electro-Voice RE20, a
> commonly-used mic in radio broadcasting. I know MicDaddy. He works for
> E-V.
I go with the recommendation about the Shure SM-7B, or 7A or anything in
that series. Flat response from about 50Hz to 10k and just a moderate
dropoff to 15k. The series also doesn't suffer the "puffing" that I find
annoying in many EV models.
I'm speaking to this more for voice recording such as singing, but I've seen
them in the field in broadcasting, so I think the Shures are the better bet.
> Take note of post #14 in this thread about the Electro-Voice RE20, a
> commonly-used mic in radio broadcasting. I know MicDaddy. He works for
> E-V.
that series. Flat response from about 50Hz to 10k and just a moderate
dropoff to 15k. The series also doesn't suffer the "puffing" that I find
annoying in many EV models.
I'm speaking to this more for voice recording such as singing, but I've seen
them in the field in broadcasting, so I think the Shures are the better bet.
spamtrap1888
May 21, 2012, 2:15:27 AM5/21/12
to
On May 20, 11:30 am, chris319 <c319ch...@aol.com> wrote:
> Take note of post #14 in this thread about the Electro-Voice RE20, a
> commonly-used mic in radio broadcasting. I know MicDaddy. He works for
> E-V.
>
> http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/719912-ev-re20-noise.html#pos...
> Take note of post #14 in this thread about the Electro-Voice RE20, a
> commonly-used mic in radio broadcasting. I know MicDaddy. He works for
> E-V.
>
When did E-V move to Minnesota? When I knew E-V people they were in
Buchanan Michigan.
spamtrap1888
May 21, 2012, 2:20:46 AM5/21/12
to
On May 20, 5:16 pm, chris319 <c319ch...@aol.com> wrote:
> I take it you replaced the RE20s with SM7Bs?
>
> The guys who do high-high-end symphony recording don't use large-
> diaphragm condensers at all, so they would never go near a Sony C37A.
> Most of them use Schoeps small-diaphragm condensers, a few use DPA
> (formerly B&K)
This shift from Kruel and Bizarre to DPA was also news to me. At first
> I take it you replaced the RE20s with SM7Bs?
>
> The guys who do high-high-end symphony recording don't use large-
> diaphragm condensers at all, so they would never go near a Sony C37A.
> Most of them use Schoeps small-diaphragm condensers, a few use DPA
> (formerly B&K)
I thought recorders were using B&K measurement mikes, which sacrifice
everything for flat on-axis response.
> and not very many use Neumanns.
liner notes specified which microphones were used -- a Neumann would
have been dangled over a grand piano, for example.
chris319
May 21, 2012, 8:51:58 AM5/21/12
to
Electro-Voice merged with Telex in 1998. The Buchanan plant closed in
2001.
Neumann has been making mics since 1928.
Eric Weaver
May 22, 2012, 12:42:43 AM5/22/12
to
Meadow break time.
David Kaye
May 22, 2012, 3:07:19 AM5/22/12
to
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