Chromebook or macbook?

[Devin Prater]

Hi all. I'm trying to decide if I want a chromebook or a macbook. I want honest, unbiased opinions here, fore this is no light request. Apple, in the past few years, seems to have dropped a bit in accessibility, while Google seoms to have grown a little. Now, my birthday is coming up, and I need an answer before May 7, sooner if possible. I know computers are more about use cases, so I'll list mine below.
I do some web browsing, chatting on iMessage and hangouts sometimes, and have a gmail and iCloud email accounts, which I use most often. I use Windows mainly for MUD gaming, with I do a lot of, so an accessible MUD clccent will go a long way to assuring I buy a Chromebook, lol. Seriously though: I do write documents, mainly for school though. Those documents usually may have images, or every, a table of contents. I watch youtube somewhat, and also sometimes make music, so a good music creation tool would be good, especially because I just got a pedal for my keyboard. I also use facebook chat, and kik sometimes, but I know that's just on mobile devices for now.
My web browsing mainly is reading Biblical things and articles from emails. I usually spend a good 10 hours a day on a computg, so a good keyboard would be nice. Good TTS would be good too, and I do wish Chromebooks could get the high qualtion voices within the chromebook, like British and Indian English. I may need braille display support when I go to work for the IRS, or whereever I end up, lol. Also, I need committed accessibility. I want a system that is ensured to be accessible 3 or so years from now. I like Apple, and like this iPhone, but I also want to know what Google has in store, and if it could be a more reliable, accessible, less expensive but just as good, as that $900 chromebook.

[kenny Hitt]

Hi.  I do a lot with my Chromebook, but it can't become my main computer.  I keep hitting accessibility issues that force me to boot up the Windows laptop.  Accessibility is slowly improving, but it isn't there yet.

This message is an example of a minor but important issue with the Chromebook.  If it has miss spelled words, I can't tell or fix them.  Until this is fixed, I use my Android smart phone or Firefox on Windows to send mail so things are spelled correctly.

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[Devin Prater]

Thanks. I'll probably go with a Macbook. This experience alone has shown that the Chromebook, even though it is cheaper, won't probably ever  be as good as a main computer.

Devin Pratersent from Gmail.

[Trenton Matthews]

Keep in mind, Chromevox is geting a major update in may.

As for spell checking, though Chromevox doesn't tell you  there is a missed-spelled word if you are in Google Docs for example, you are able to still press shift-f10 to bring up a context menu for word suggestions.

 

On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 6:17:56 AM UTC-6, Devin Prater wrote:

Thanks. I'll probably go with a Macbook. This experience alone has shown that the Chromebook, even though it is cheaper, won't probably ever  be as good as a main computer.

Devin Pratersent from Gmail.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 AM, kenny Hitt <hitt...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi.  I do a lot with my Chromebook, but it can't become my main computer.  I keep hitting accessibility issues that force me to boot up the Windows laptop.  Accessibility is slowly improving, but it isn't there yet.

This message is an example of a minor but important issue with the Chromebook.  If it has miss spelled words, I can't tell or fix them.  Until this is fixed, I use my Android smart phone or Firefox on Windows to send mail so things are spelled correctly.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:13 AM, Devin Prater <r.d.t....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all. I'm trying to decide if I want a chromebook or a macbook. I want honest, unbiased opinions here, fore this is no light request. Apple, in the past few years, seems to have dropped a bit in accessibility, while Google seoms to have grown a little. Now, my birthday is coming up, and I need an answer before May 7, sooner if possible. I know computers are more about use cases, so I'll list mine below.
I do some web browsing, chatting on iMessage and hangouts sometimes, and have a gmail and iCloud email accounts, which I use most often. I use Windows mainly for MUD gaming, with I do a lot of, so an accessible MUD clccent will go a long way to assuring I buy a Chromebook, lol. Seriously though: I do write documents, mainly for school though. Those documents usually may have images, or every, a table of contents. I watch youtube somewhat, and also sometimes make music, so a good music creation tool would be good, especially because I just got a pedal for my keyboard. I also use facebook chat, and kik sometimes, but I know that's just on mobile devices for now.
My web browsing mainly is reading Biblical things and articles from emails. I usually spend a good 10 hours a day on a computg, so a good keyboard would be nice. Good TTS would be good too, and I do wish Chromebooks could get the high qualtion voices within the chromebook, like British and Indian English. I may need braille display support when I go to work for the IRS, or whereever I end up, lol. Also, I need committed accessibility. I want a system that is ensured to be accessible 3 or so years from now. I like Apple, and like this iPhone, but I also want to know what Google has in store, and if it could be a more reliable, accessible, less expensive but just as good, as that $900 chromebook.

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[kenny Hitt]

Hi. For some reason, shift f10 never opens the menu on my Chromebook.

On Apr 24, 2015 8:27 AM, "Trenton Matthews" <trenton...@gmail.com> wrote:

Keep in mind, Chromevox is geting a major update in may.

As for spell checking, though Chromevox doesn't tell you  there is a missed-spelled word if you are in Google Docs for example, you are able to still press shift-f10 to bring up a context menu for word suggestions.

 

On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 6:17:56 AM UTC-6, Devin Prater wrote:

Thanks. I'll probably go with a Macbook. This experience alone has shown that the Chromebook, even though it is cheaper, won't probably ever  be as good as a main computer.

Devin Pratersent from Gmail.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 AM, kenny Hitt <hitt...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi.  I do a lot with my Chromebook, but it can't become my main computer.  I keep hitting accessibility issues that force me to boot up the Windows laptop.  Accessibility is slowly improving, but it isn't there yet.

This message is an example of a minor but important issue with the Chromebook.  If it has miss spelled words, I can't tell or fix them.  Until this is fixed, I use my Android smart phone or Firefox on Windows to send mail so things are spelled correctly.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:13 AM, Devin Prater <r.d.t....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all. I'm trying to decide if I want a chromebook or a macbook. I want honest, unbiased opinions here, fore this is no light request. Apple, in the past few years, seems to have dropped a bit in accessibility, while Google seoms to have grown a little. Now, my birthday is coming up, and I need an answer before May 7, sooner if possible. I know computers are more about use cases, so I'll list mine below.
I do some web browsing, chatting on iMessage and hangouts sometimes, and have a gmail and iCloud email accounts, which I use most often. I use Windows mainly for MUD gaming, with I do a lot of, so an accessible MUD clccent will go a long way to assuring I buy a Chromebook, lol. Seriously though: I do write documents, mainly for school though. Those documents usually may have images, or every, a table of contents. I watch youtube somewhat, and also sometimes make music, so a good music creation tool would be good, especially because I just got a pedal for my keyboard. I also use facebook chat, and kik sometimes, but I know that's just on mobile devices for now.
My web browsing mainly is reading Biblical things and articles from emails. I usually spend a good 10 hours a day on a computg, so a good keyboard would be nice. Good TTS would be good too, and I do wish Chromebooks could get the high qualtion voices within the chromebook, like British and Indian English. I may need braille display support when I go to work for the IRS, or whereever I end up, lol. Also, I need committed accessibility. I want a system that is ensured to be accessible 3 or so years from now. I like Apple, and like this iPhone, but I also want to know what Google has in store, and if it could be a more reliable, accessible, less expensive but just as good, as that $900 chromebook.

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[Trenton Matthews]

Ah, to correct myself somewhat, it will tell there is a missed spell word if in Docs, but not outside it.

If you are a gamer, and can't wait for HTML5 audio games, Chrome OS ain't  for you either.

Music production you can do, though not "advanced" editing yet. You are alb eot merge files, thanks to a site called Audio Expert:

http://audioexpert.com

[Trenton Matthews]

Hi,

You may need to change the top row of keys to act like "function" keys.

Choose the "Treat Top Row Of Keys As Function Keys" within the keyboard settings, under Chrome OS settings.

 Alternatively, do a Chromevox-0, and it does the same thing.

In fact, doing a Chromevox-5 though 0 on the number row, will preform their f5 through f10 counter parts.

  

 

On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 7:30:19 AM UTC-6, kenny Hitt wrote:

Hi. For some reason, shift f10 never opens the menu on my Chromebook.

On Apr 24, 2015 8:27 AM, "Trenton Matthews" <trenton...@gmail.com> wrote:

Keep in mind, Chromevox is geting a major update in may.

As for spell checking, though Chromevox doesn't tell you  there is a missed-spelled word if you are in Google Docs for example, you are able to still press shift-f10 to bring up a context menu for word suggestions.

 

On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 6:17:56 AM UTC-6, Devin Prater wrote:

Thanks. I'll probably go with a Macbook. This experience alone has shown that the Chromebook, even though it is cheaper, won't probably ever  be as good as a main computer.

Devin Pratersent from Gmail.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 AM, kenny Hitt <hitt...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi.  I do a lot with my Chromebook, but it can't become my main computer.  I keep hitting accessibility issues that force me to boot up the Windows laptop.  Accessibility is slowly improving, but it isn't there yet.

This message is an example of a minor but important issue with the Chromebook.  If it has miss spelled words, I can't tell or fix them.  Until this is fixed, I use my Android smart phone or Firefox on Windows to send mail so things are spelled correctly.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:13 AM, Devin Prater <r.d.t....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all. I'm trying to decide if I want a chromebook or a macbook. I want honest, unbiased opinions here, fore this is no light request. Apple, in the past few years, seems to have dropped a bit in accessibility, while Google seoms to have grown a little. Now, my birthday is coming up, and I need an answer before May 7, sooner if possible. I know computers are more about use cases, so I'll list mine below.
I do some web browsing, chatting on iMessage and hangouts sometimes, and have a gmail and iCloud email accounts, which I use most often. I use Windows mainly for MUD gaming, with I do a lot of, so an accessible MUD clccent will go a long way to assuring I buy a Chromebook, lol. Seriously though: I do write documents, mainly for school though. Those documents usually may have images, or every, a table of contents. I watch youtube somewhat, and also sometimes make music, so a good music creation tool would be good, especially because I just got a pedal for my keyboard. I also use facebook chat, and kik sometimes, but I know that's just on mobile devices for now.
My web browsing mainly is reading Biblical things and articles from emails. I usually spend a good 10 hours a day on a computg, so a good keyboard would be nice. Good TTS would be good too, and I do wish Chromebooks could get the high qualtion voices within the chromebook, like British and Indian English. I may need braille display support when I go to work for the IRS, or whereever I end up, lol. Also, I need committed accessibility. I want a system that is ensured to be accessible 3 or so years from now. I like Apple, and like this iPhone, but I also want to know what Google has in store, and if it could be a more reliable, accessible, less expensive but just as good, as that $900 chromebook.

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[Mike Arrigo]

I would get a macbook, no question. It costs more than a chromebook,
but the chromebooks are just too limiting. They are good at what they
do, they just don't do enough. You really can't run any applications
besides what is available for chrome itself. The macbook will do
everything the chromebook does, and much more.
Original message:

> an email to axs-chrome-disc...@googlegroups.com.

[B. Henry]

You are really asking an apples and oranges question.
I'm not an apple fan mostly because of there "Apple knows best", our size fits all attitude, but also because I do not think their pricing is
reasonable, and from time to time they appear to go in to damage control modes that do not put the consumer first or even 2nd that may well be old
fashioned cover ups.
That being said, a macbook is still a more versitile machine, and only a few chromebook models have hardware specs that are in the same league last I
checked.
I'm not aware of audio mixing/production software for chrome-os, macs are known for doing that kind of thing well.
Trying to read what accessiblity will be like more than a few months out is a dice game don't you think?
I do not trust Apple to do a great job supporting non-apple software, ever, nor do I thik it likely that they will give any honest/rellevent signals
about what's coming re accessiblity.
I think Google has good intentions, and as you mention of late progress seems to be steadier on the access front than it perhaps was a few years ago,
but I'm not sure it's going to speed up, and honestly Google's got to stay on course for another year or two before I"m convinced that they are really
dedicating anywhere near the resources required to make their apps, services and hence their hardware consistently comfortable for blind folks to use.
I also think that looking 1, 2 or 3 years out either one of these companies may do someting that helps people in general, and or specifically blinks to
have significantly nicer tech experiences. Let's hope that if some cool breakthrough occurs that it backports to existing hardware...lol
Other than a better experience using google-docs, and perhaps some other g-apps I don't see what you hae to gain compared with the windows you use now.
The best I can imagine from a chromebook would be coming close to a well configured traditional email client when it comes to email,. Your accessible
web-browsing options are limited on a Mac compared with Windows.
And to get the most out of a chrome book you'll want consistently fast and reliable internet connections.
The only conditions that would get me seriously interested in a chromebook would be either studying at a school where g-docs, and maybe other
apps&services like hangouts or books have been officially adopted/integrated in to the info-structure, (is info-structure my invention/never read that
word before that I remember), or if I got a job in a g-aps using company.
If you get a mac you can always put Linux on it...smile
How about a VM? Can virtual machines be run on chrome-os?
As for voices, that's about personal prefference of course. A lot of people like some of the google-tts choices, a lot of others like Apple voices, and
others do not particularly like either.
If you are talking a highend chromebook, and this will be your 2nd notebook then you would get a bit more bang for your buck with it I guess. That's
assuming the quality internet connection at school and aroundthe places you frequent. On the other hand if you don't have a fairly fast and reliable
laptop now and want to do most things on the new machine then you are probably better off with the mac.
We don't really know how win10 will turn out, but I think it pretty funny that windows finally seems to be heading down some more interesting paths and
people are more ready to jump ship. I'm certainly unlikely to move away from Linux as my primary OS, butthink MS has some interestng irons in the fire,
and am glad to see them adopting some things they should have half a decade ago.
It's a pretty interesting time for personal computing, and I do think that all of the platforms will be helping us integrate the famous/infamous
"internet of things" in to our lives if we wish to do so. I hope both google and Apple make sure that there are interfaces that we all can use
You also mention that you like apple stuff, and even if you do not have much of a financial investment in apps you do have hardware and experience
using it. Apple, Google, Microsoft... all count on these investments keeping users/consumers around.
Assuming no major accessibility issues Android apps now being usable on Chrome-OS is great, and if you were an Android user then that could be a strong
factor in your decission, but since you have an iphone you may find the integration between it and a macbook valuable.
Maybe my comments are not the details you are looking for. I hope I help you put things in a perspectifve or two at any rate.

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Devin Prater wrote:
Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:13:41AM -0500

> Hi all. I'm trying to decide if I want a chromebook or a macbook. I want honest, unbiased opinions here, fore this is no light request. Apple, in the past few years, seems to have dropped a bit in accessibility, while Google seoms to have grown a little. Now, my birthday is coming up, and I need an answer before May 7, sooner if possible. I know computers are more about use cases, so I'll list mine below.
> I do some web browsing, chatting on iMessage and hangouts sometimes, and have a gmail and iCloud email accounts, which I use most often. I use Windows mainly for MUD gaming, with I do a lot of, so an accessible MUD clccent will go a long way to assuring I buy a Chromebook, lol. Seriously though: I do write documents, mainly for school though. Those documents usually may have images, or every, a table of contents. I watch youtube somewhat, and also sometimes make music, so a good music creation tool would be good, especially because I just got a pedal for my keyboard. I also use facebook chat, and kik sometimes, but I know that's just on mobile devices for now.
> My web browsing mainly is reading Biblical things and articles from emails. I usually spend a good 10 hours a day on a computg, so a good keyboard would be nice. Good TTS would be good too, and I do wish Chromebooks could get the high qualtion voices within the chromebook, like British and Indian English. I may need braille display support when I go to work for the IRS, or whereever I end up, lol. Also, I need committed accessibility. I want a system that is ensured to be accessible 3 or so years from now. I like Apple, and like this iPhone, but I also want to know what Google has in store, and if it could be a more reliable, accessible, less expensive but just as good, as that $900 chromebook.
>

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Well, it depends, of course. If all your needs are met by ChromeOS, then really this is just the classic “Accessibility vs choice” trade-off. As others have said, ChromeOS is itself less capable than OS X, but it can still do a surprising amount: it works offline, it can access external drives, and is in many ways its own little universe of software with enormous potential for enjoyable computing. But, you can’t run arbitrary software, so unless your task is doable on a remote machine (and a surprising amount is) then you really can’t do it in ChromeOS. From what you’ve been asking, audio editing sounds like the big sticking point.

I agree with you that Apple accessibility—at least with regard to OS X—is diminishing steadily. For my ongoing gripes (and I think you’ve seen this, but others mightn’t have) see:
http://www.applevis.com/forum/accessibility-advocacy/suggestion-report-accessibility-bug-friday
AppleVis records active OS X bugs here:
http://www.applevis.com/bugs/osx/active

There’s just one problem with having a more and more frustrating experience with OS X: ChromeVox isn’t even finished yet.

I don’t want to be unkind, but Google has a habit of belching out unfinished software, and IMO ChromeVox is such software. I really, really want to like ChromeOS—perhaps more so than Android, owing to the privacy controls on the Chrome browser—but you’ll have to accept that as things currently stand you can’t actually use all the functions of your ChromeOS device, and every so often an update will fix one thing and break others in annoying and sometimes unfixable ways. I sincerely hope this is remedied, and soon, but I’m going to reserve judgement until it happens on the strength of Android accessibility developments, and I advise you to do the same. Right now, I still take my MacBook about with me, simply because it works, where ChromeVox just doesn’t, yet. My ChromeBook is an enjoyable plaything, but I can’t trust it for anything more than web browsing in the garden. Perhaps Google’s being in the education sector will make it all better; the online Google apps shine their very best on ChromeOS. But they will need to get the accessibility entirely right for this dream to be reality.

As a side note: ironically, I’m dancing with the idea of going back to Windows. At a time when Apple rescued us all from having to use Windows with a very-much-unfinished screen reader called VoiceOver, the Mac was the obvious choice; now, I’m going back to Windows just to get a choice of usable screen readers, and Google is offering a promising new upstart as an alternative. Oh, how times change!

[Trenton Matthews]

As ya mentioned Android, and as ya probably know by now, there's now a Talkback public beta, version of TB 4.2.0.

Although 4.2.0 of TB now lets you dim the screen, change those circle menus in to list views which act like normal menus, and you can now suspend Talkback with the volume keys by holding them for a few seconds which doesn't work with rocker style volume keys which thus it needs changing, typing is still needing fixing. It broke after 4.0, where it doesn't interuppt itself. Cool Blind tech's got a write up on it:

http://www.coolblindtech.com/talkback-4-2-0-is-in-beta-provides-a-huge-upgrade-of-features-based-on-feedback/

In the case of Chrome OS for now, no speech is given for Chrome OS Android apps yet, such as Podcast Addict.

I use my Acer chromebook 11 daily, in conjunction with my Android tablet, though the CB gets way more use.

For those fans who are in to audio gaming, most programs are on Windows or iOS, thus a Chromebook will not be for those folks, blind or sighted. And many Chromies won't touch a Chrome OS device till Skype properly comes to it, as they won't use Hangouts or Facebook Messenger via the web at all. Or any Web RTC service for that matter... *sigh*

 

Unless Google can capture the people with what folks want, and more mainstream apps come to the web store, Chrome OS users will be most likely "users within the educational" market. 

I mean, look at the Chrosh! (AKA The "Chrome Shell.")

Chrome vox can read it, (control-alt-t to enter it,) but actually trying to use it, well...

That's the same with the "telnet" clients, though at least there are a few mud clients that work ok... IRC working pretty Good!

Particularly the "Bird IRC" client:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/byrd-irc-client/endimfdcgfnlmoankhocnkhgohmoecoi?hl=en

Plus Microsoft build conference is next friday, so can Google get the hype in May with Google IO? 

Hey I would "love" more Audio Games come to Chrome OS, and GNU/Linux for that matter, but that folks so far ain't happening! 

We Penguins need more respect around here!

Ok, rant over... That email was way too long...

PS. Talkback now requires Android 4.1 and later.

No the change log in Google Play hasn't been updated yet...

[Mike Arrigo]

Certainly Apple devices are often more expensive than many other
brands, but Apple really never has competed on price. In their mind,
you are paying a higher price for the experience you get with an Apple
product, which other brands cannot provide. Of course whether that is
worth paying for is up to each person.
Original message:

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Yes, Crosh, indeed. With crouton, I could be happy with the combination of essential tools and a web browser, most likely, to judge from the apps I’m using now. All the power can be on my server at home, accessible via ssh. But I’ve been disappointed to find that Crosh, and parts of the file manager, are largely impossible to use.

[Christopher Chaltain]

It's true that a ChromeBook won't ever be a laptop, for reasons others
have already stated, but whether it's an option for you depends on what
you want it to do for you. The fact that there are some accessibility
issues on the ChromeBook though are no reason to think it won't ever be
as accessible as a laptop. Laptops have their own accessibility issues
regardless of what operating system they're running, and there's no
technical reason the ChromeBook couldn't be as accessible or even more
accessible than any laptop out there.

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[B. Henry]

Accessibility bugs come and go, even with old favorit software. There was a windows XP update that was supposed to improve some compatibility with
accessiblity API soething or another that actually broke much more accessiblity than it fixed for most if not all users., and that was with a fairly
mature XP, end of sp2 days I think.
Sometimes a new relese of a $1000 screenreader has major regressions that make some program unusable with it.
For several months I was able to use native Linux speech with chromoevox, but then bugs that had existed all along broke things with chrome/cjrp,evpx
i[date, and this functionality has not returned.
I don't know if your perception that Apple seems to be slipping when it comes to how things work with voiceover is accurate or not, but it does not
matter if this is generally true if the program you want or need to usestops working well for you.
I think we shouldmostly base decissions on what works today. We can put some educated guesses based on a product's development roadmap tempered with
a bit of knowledge of their track record in to the mix, but stuff happens.
That stuph is likely to slow a project down, but good stuph happens unexpectedly from time to time as well, and as long as accessibility is largelly
treated as an add-on or parallel project we'll be stuck in this guessing game.
I think few if any main stream companies will hold back a product launch or major software update because it does not work correctly with speech or
other interfaces that are seen as catering to the disabled user.
The more integrated approach to universal accessiblity we have discussed of late will become more popular I reckon, but no holding of breath please.

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Christopher Chaltain wrote:
Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 08:36:20PM -0500

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[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

FWIW, I received my Apple Watch today, and it’s more-or-less completely accessible. Quite a miracle, really.

Not suggesting there aren’t motives involved that are not strictly altruistic—I’m sure there are--I just wanted to make the circumstantial counterargument to what would, on the face of it, be a historical trend of disinterest in accessibility in mainstream products. Sometimes, it really does take a leader.

OS X is sold at least a tenth of iOS units, possibly fewer even than that. Of course there’s no definite evidence, but yes, I think OS X accessibility is suffering because of a sheer change of direction at Apple; indeed the entire operating system is, even for the mainstream users. The appearance of a watch that’s accessible from the get go, even as the old bugs in OS X fester, is very hard to explain otherwise. But in the end it’s just guesswork. You’re right, the only question now is whether or not I’ll stick around. So far my attempts to go back to Windows have all been very miserable and unhappy, because I’ve always admired Apple’s approach despite the politics, and I haven’t been able to switch with any great satisfaction or conviction. But as the bugs creep up and the mediocrities match, Windows may at last prove worthwhile again. I am using more and more Windows software in virtual machines, and getting a lot of the benefit of having screen readers in combination with known-working programs as basic as Thunderbird and Firefox, even though the architecture sucks terribly and I’ve had to make some sacrifices.

Another thing to consider: if you want OS X for some things, but Windows for the rest, then Macs will run either virtual machines or boot a Windows partition. One of my Macs now in fact runs Windows full-time, with an OS X virtual machine (not supported by the great fruity one, of course).

And now we come to ChromeOS and the purpose of this list. Come on Google, pull your finger out! :)

[Shawn Krasniuk]

You know? I don't see where the accessibility issues are in OS X, even in my almost 5 years using a Mac and beta testing Yosemite. If you can show me where Apple is declining in terms of accessibility with regards to OS X, I'll look into it. However that's not going to turn me against them. I'd rather work with them then jump ship to something like Windows or ChromeOS, but if people want to do that, that's their own choice. It's not gonna hurt them if a handful of us decide to jump ship, because people like me will still use and buy their products. I'll probably buy a MacBook Air one of these days when this white MacBook I'm using no longer works. Besides, does Windows or ChromeOS have voices that take breaths and sound cool? I think not. You can call me an Apple fan boy all you want, but that's not gonna change where I stand.

Shawn
Sent from my White MacBook

[Jason White]

Trenton Matthews <trenton...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In the case of Chrome OS for now, no speech is given for Chrome OS Android
> apps yet, such as Podcast Addict.
>

Speech with such applications, using ChromeVox, was demonstrated live at the
CSUN conference in March. You can reasonably expect it to become available
when the developers consider it ready for release.

> I use my Acer chromebook 11 daily, in conjunction with my Android tablet,
> though the CB gets way more use.

Since this is becoming something of an operating system accessibility
comparison, my not very optimistic conclusion is this:
Almost everything has its frustrations so far as accessibility is concerned. Which
frustrations do you want to live with? For accessibility, the Linux console
and Emacs environments are the best, in my experience, and not merely because
that's what I'm most familiar with using. I very much like the navigational
model of ChromeVox. I haven't used it sufficiently to identify major
shortcomings, and a new version is under development in any case, making it
less useful to comment on the current release. Nevertheless, I'm very
impressed with ChromeVox and with the extent to which it simplifies the
assistive technology by moving it directly into the browser. Under Chrome OS,
this works especially well.

GNOME under Linux has good accessibility infrastructure, but the development
effort lacks the resources to fix bugs and produce high release quality.
Nevertheless, for Web browsing, it works well enough to be my primary
environment at home, where I mostly operate from the Linux console anyway
(including Emacs of course).

Third-party screen reader vendors have made Microsoft Windows very accessible.
I have an MS-Windows machine at work with a couple of well-known screen
readers installed. The major problem is system instability - application
crashes and long-running system hangs that require the screen reader and some
applications to be terminated and restarted, if that's possible, or the entire
machine hard reset otherwise. As a non-Windows user who is encountering
MS-Windows for the first time, I now appreciate first-hand why many Windows
users want to move elsewhere. Windows is living up to its reputation rather
well in my case. On the positive side, keyboard commands are extensive in the
Windows GUI. There's also a renewed focus by Microsoft on the command line
environment with Windows PowerShell, but Linux is still supreme so far as
command line tools are concerned.

OS X has good accessibility. As usual with GUI environments, the accessibility
of third-party applications varies considerably from good to non-functional.
Keyboard commands in OS X aren't as rich as those under Linux or MS-Windows,
which I find reduces my productivity, as do certain aspects of VoiceOver,
including its approach to navigation and shortcomings in braille display
support. Then there are the bugs, as others on this list have noted; but
you'll find bugs in any software environment if you use it sufficiently. I'm
using an OS X machine as my primary system at work, thus avoiding Windows for
the most part while still being able to access Microsoft Exchange-hosted mail
and calendar using Apple's tools. I also need access to UNIX tools for work
purposes, including Git repositories, shell and utilities, ssh, etc. OS X is
UNIX, being based on BSD. It is not my preferred software environment but it's
a somewhat usable compromise for now in the work situation.

My experience of Android is not recent, so I shouldn't comment on issues that
may have been resolved in recent releases. I found the bugs to be very
frustrating - the support for accessibility clearly needed more development resources than
it was apparently receiving. That statement could be made about every
operating system to some extent, but under Android I found the issues very
conspicuous. Braille display access was in its early stages of development and
not included by default. This may be changing however, and I also made the
mistake of not owning a Nexus device. If you want timely updates of an Android
device, get it directly from Google, and be aware that Android 5.0 introduces
significant accessibility improvements, so I'm informed.

For the most part, the accessibility of iOS is excellent, provided that you
use Apple's applications. In the world of third-party apps, the quality of
accessibility varies. I have iOS devices, but I mostly keep to their standard,
built-in functionality and apps that are known to be accessible. Nevertheless,
I think Apple should be credited with having implemented the accessibility
support very well. My current phone is an iOS device. The braille display
support is also quite good.


So ends my brief, personal survey of six different operating systems. The
experiences of others may vary greatly from mine. I've probably just annoyed
every operating system vendor/developer with the above comments; but at least
I'm striving for fairness in my opinions and I have used all of the systems
discussed.

[kenny Hitt]

Hi.  I would like to start a thread on this group about using Chromebooks.  My experience is that the documentation is not correct for my chromebook and suggested solutions for some of my issues don't seem to work.

I'd like to figure out what is happening and how I can fix it so I can get the most from my Chromebook.

[Christopher Chaltain]

I'd suggest starting a new thread by sending a new message to the list
with your question. Don't reply to a previous message or you'll be
hijacking another thread. I think one question per message works, and
use a clear descriptive subject line.

On 04/25/2015 10:37 AM, kenny Hitt wrote:
> Hi. I would like to start a thread on this group about using
> Chromebooks. My experience is that the documentation is not correct for
> my chromebook and suggested solutions for some of my issues don't seem
> to work.
> I'd like to figure out what is happening and how I can fix it so I can
> get the most from my Chromebook.
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Jason White <ja...@jasonjgw.net
> <mailto:ja...@jasonjgw.net>> wrote:
>
> Trenton Matthews <trenton...@gmail.com

> <mailto:axs-chrome-discuss%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "axs-chrome-discuss" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to axs-chrome-disc...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:axs-chrome-disc...@googlegroups.com>.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Trenton Matthews]

Hi there, and thanks for your insight.

Glad to know that CV will be able to work with Android apps officially, that'll be a great help to many.

Brailleback for Android also got a beta for public testing  recently as well.

To sum it all up, look how far we've dome!

[B. Henry]

I can't see myself going to a vendor who does everything they can to limit my choice as to how I use their products.
I can appreciate them locking things down to try and make things safe for those who can't or won't make smart decisisions, but do not try and make
jailbreaking illegal. No apple will not go broke because I don't have anything of theirs, and I don't want to see themn go away, just giving personal
prefs.
I admire them for including accessibility tools that while far from perfect by many accounts are pretty good and there by default.
But the bottom line is we are getting farther and farther away from the original question, which is really not one that we can answer I fear.
Devin buddy, you will need to reallly evaluate your needs and balance them out with what you can do well with the hardware you already have.
Do you want a device that can do everything more or less well, or one that can do a few things better and others not at all?
I think almost any platform can do what you want and with a bit of study and configuration do it well and accessibly with the exception of the audio
editing. I really doubt chrome-OS will be good for this, but windows, Linux or Mac will work.

--
B.H.
Registerd Linux User 521886

Shawn Krasniuk wrote:
Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 11:42:05PM -0500

[Jacob Schmude]

Hi

Macbook, no question. I'm getting so frustrated with my Acer C720P Chromebook that it's all I can do to avoid throwing it. With each update, even on the stable channel, it's not a matter of what old bugs they've fixed but what old bugs they've made even worse. It actually amazes me that, as awesome as Android accessibility is these days, that such a bad job could be done on Chrome OS, but as of the past few months the bugs I've seen here make the OS X Yosemite update look like it went perfectly for everyone. Everything from the tts failing to start on boot (caused, of all things, by extensions crashing) to ChromeVox randomly freezing and requiring a reboot to make it respond again.

Basically, it seems to me like Chrome OS is Google's "throw anything in see if it works" platform. It's too bad too, because when I got this little beauty it worked perfectly. And yes, I've wiped it, killed all my extensions, etc but it's done no good. Still, who the hell ever heard of a platform that won't load a tts engine for accessibility because of other browser extensions? This alone makes it almost unuseable, because I never know if the TTS is even going to start and have to reboot who knows how many times before I finally get it to speak. Note that CHromeVox itself loads when this happens (verified that with my USB Braille display) but no speech, and you can't manually start it either.

So bottom line is, if you need to do anything reliably, go Macbook or another full laptop. These Chromebooks are fun toys, but they'll never be reliable enough for accessibility until major problems are dealt with for good.