Jaycar blatant ripoff!!!!

[Don McKenzie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI

I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with electronics like I use to be.
Just cruising!

However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention, and I knew I had to do something about it.

Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.

Cheers Don...



--
Don McKenzie

Dontronics has just launched a new Shopping Cart.
Now located at: https://www.shop-dontronics.com

All Olimex products now 75% to 95% off normal Olimex Prices.
https://www.shop-dontronics.com/olimex-discounts
Many other items discounted up to 95% off.
Also discounts on Sparkfun, CCS, SimmStick, etc.

[Bruce]

Thanks for that link Don. I've rung and spoken to Jaycar and the guy
told me they've been flooded with complaints and links about their
apparent theft of intellectual property and their marketing people are
sorting out a response. Perhaps there's another side to the story but
I bet I'm not going to like Jaycar's version.

Cheers Bruce.

[Clocky]

On 19/10/2016 6:14 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI
>
> I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with
> electronics like I use to be.
> Just cruising!
>
> However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention, and I
> knew I had to do something about it.
>
> Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.
>
> Cheers Don...
>
>
>

That they would produce a similar kit is understandable but to copy the
box and documentation so blatantly is disgraceful in my view.

I noticed it has been brought up on the EEVblog forums. A video from
Dave would surely give plenty of world wide exposure to this blatant rip
off.

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Don McKenzie <5...@2.5a> wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI
>
> I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with electronics like I use to be.
> Just cruising!
>
> However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention, and I knew I had to do something about it.
>
> Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.

I admit I haven't watched the video, but looking at the two
product pages linked in the description, I can't see what
the fuss is about.

Jaycar packages an equivalent kit to Freetronics; with their
own colour and branding so I don't see how consumers would
mistake it for a Freetronics product. I hardly think
Freetronics would have patented their kit design, so what's
the problem?

The Freetronics Arduino (and possibly the Jaycar one as well)
is only an unofficial copy of the Open-Source Arduino design,
so I don't understand why there would be any sense of loyalty
to them in any case.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

[Phil Allison]

Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

>
> > However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention,
> >and I knew I had to do something about it.
> >
> > Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.
>
> I admit I haven't watched the video, but looking at the two
> product pages linked in the description, I can't see what
> the fuss is about.
>

** Watch the video - it explains things.

> Jaycar packages an equivalent kit to Freetronics; with their
> own colour and branding so I don't see how consumers would
> mistake it for a Freetronics product.
>

** This is not a consumer "rip-off" but an imitation of a existing product including packaging and documentation.

> I hardly think
> Freetronics would have patented their kit design, so what's
> the problem?
>

** It's a copyright issue - not a patent breach.

Jaycar have had the Freetronics kit cloned by the Chinese and are selling it using a brand they own.

The minor copyright infringement and the money involved does not justify legal action.


.... Phil

[Sylvia Else]

It's clear that they've copied the packaging design and the instruction
book, not just developed their own.

Depending on the terms of the open-source licence used by Freetronics,
that may, or may not, be a breach of copyright, since open-source is not
the same as public domain.

Sylvia.

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Phil Allison <palli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>
>>
>> > However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention,
>> >and I knew I had to do something about it.
>> >
>> > Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.
>>
>> I admit I haven't watched the video, but looking at the two
>> product pages linked in the description, I can't see what
>> the fuss is about.
>>
>
> ** Watch the video - it explains things.

OK, it did. It also highlighted the quite nice resistor colour chart
that Jaycar ripped off. That page will be handy to keep on my
computer.

>> Jaycar packages an equivalent kit to Freetronics; with their
>> own colour and branding so I don't see how consumers would
>> mistake it for a Freetronics product.
>>
>
> ** This is not a consumer "rip-off" but an imitation of a
> existing product including packaging and documentation.

OK, though anyone who's seen an ALDI store will understand
that such practice is hardly unusual.

>> I hardly think
>> Freetronics would have patented their kit design, so what's
>> the problem?
>
> ** It's a copyright issue - not a patent breach.

Yes the project guide has clearly been copied, at least with some
images. I doubt if the packaging would qualify as a copyright
breach, he says himself that there are differences and that they
never had the design files.

> Jaycar have had the Freetronics kit cloned by the Chinese and
> are selling it using a brand they own.

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with them
copying the overall kit design, besides it being a lazy. There's
nothing revolutionary about it (as I say, if there were they
should have patented it). However Jaycar should have been honest
enough to develop their own project guide, especially as they
no doubt have the resources to do so.

> The minor copyright infringement and the money involved does
> not justify legal action.

Unfortunately.

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:
> On 19/10/2016 1:50 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> Don McKenzie <5...@2.5a> wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI
>>>
>>> I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with electronics like I use to be.
>>> Just cruising!
>>>
>>> However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention, and I knew I had to do something about it.
>>>
>>> Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.
>>
>> I admit I haven't watched the video, but looking at the two
>> product pages linked in the description, I can't see what
>> the fuss is about.
>>
>> Jaycar packages an equivalent kit to Freetronics; with their
>> own colour and branding so I don't see how consumers would
>> mistake it for a Freetronics product. I hardly think
>> Freetronics would have patented their kit design, so what's
>> the problem?
>>
>> The Freetronics Arduino (and possibly the Jaycar one as well)
>> is only an unofficial copy of the Open-Source Arduino design,
>> so I don't understand why there would be any sense of loyalty
>> to them in any case.
>>
>
> It's clear that they've copied the packaging design and the instruction
> book, not just developed their own.

Yep, I'm with you at least as far as images in the book. The rest might
be called "reverse-engineered"

> Depending on the terms of the open-source licence used by Freetronics,
> that may, or may not, be a breach of copyright, since open-source is not
> the same as public domain.

The Terms and conditions page:
http://www.freetronics.com.au/pages/terms-conditions
spells out that all the information is for non-commercial use.

The original Arduino design is free for commercial use under
the GPL (according to Wikipedia). Maybe at a stretch the kit
is a derivative work and should thus be licenced under the
GPL. Though this might be akin to bundling GPL software with
other closed source software on CD which is specifically
allowed by the GPL:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License#Communicating_and_bundling_with_non-GPL_programs

Perhaps this is where the application of software licences
to hardware designs begins to break down.

[Sylvia Else]

The video indicates that the Jaycar book, or significant parts of it,
are word for word copies of the Freetronics book. Further, I can see
nothing to suggest that the book is anything other than copyright to
Freetronics, with no provision allowing others to appropriate it in any
way whatsoever.

However, enforcing copyright on the book would probably just result in
Jaycar writing their own.

Clearly, in its present form, Jaycar's product is a blatant rip-off of
Freetronics, but the idea of having a kit is not one that can be
protected, and there was nothing to prevent Jaycar from producing their
own - provided they did it without copying the parts of Freetronics'
work that can be protected by copyright.

Sylvia.

[Gordon Levi]

Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI
>
>I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with electronics like I use to be.
>Just cruising!
>
>However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention, and I knew I had to do something about it.

As the video explains this seems to be routine for Jaycar. The only
thing I can do about it is to boycott Jaycar. Is there a comparable
shop in Melbourne's Eastern suburbs?

[F Murtz]

Hardly any few and far between nowadays.

[Trevor Wilson]

On 19/10/2016 9:14 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI
>
> I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with
> electronics like I use to be.
> Just cruising!
>
> However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention, and I
> knew I had to do something about it.
>
> Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.
>
> Cheers Don...
>

**Another good reason to avoid Jaycar whenever possible. Disgusting.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Clocky]

On 19/10/2016 4:14 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> Phil Allison <palli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention,
>>>> and I knew I had to do something about it.
>>>>
>>>> Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.
>>>
>>> I admit I haven't watched the video, but looking at the two
>>> product pages linked in the description, I can't see what
>>> the fuss is about.
>>>
>>
>> ** Watch the video - it explains things.
>
> OK, it did. It also highlighted the quite nice resistor colour chart
> that Jaycar ripped off. That page will be handy to keep on my
> computer.

I knew I'd seen a similar resistor colour chart before somewhere:

https://postimg.org/image/xnvx7is71/

That photo is from the data section of the Dick Smith catalogues from
the '90's and 2000's and a full size colour one was sold cat. no. B-1000

[Jasen Betts]

If you don't like Jaycar, the other chain is Altroics,
google says:

Altronics
891 Princes Highway
Springvale Victoria 3171

There are probably independent suppliers around too


If you have (or can make up) a business name you can open an
account with element14.com.au, Last time I checked they did
free next day delivery to Australia.

--
This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Free delivery is only on orders over $40 (or was it $45?), RS
Components have free delivery on all orders. They also have a
warehouse/store in Melbourne (don't remember which end) for
those who like the personal touch.

Rockby Electronics also live in Melbourne's East.

[Computer Nerd Kev]

A few years ago I printed off one from the 'net that also
showed the temperature coefficient colours for 6-band
resistors. Unfortunately I lost the file, it's probably
still online somewhere...

[keithr0]

Easy enough to remember the code. From my apprentice days -

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Black Brown Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Violet Gray White
Bye bye Rosie Off You Go to Birmingham Via Great Western
Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Virgins Go Without

[keithr0]

Freetronics are a pretty blatant ripoff themselves, they import the
stuff stick it in a packet and sell it at an outrageous markup.

[Computer Nerd Kev]

There are many versions of that last one. :)

Unfortunately the more fickle memories among us can need some
reassurance that 8 was Grey, not Green, and 6 was Blue, not
Brown.

[Sylvia Else]

Though I'm finding it less useful to know these days, because the 1%
resistors I buy seem to be coded with various shades of brown on a blue
background. I used to be confident that I could correctly read the code,
but now I have to check every one with a multimeter.

Sylvia.

[Clocky]

What do they charge for that kit?

[Xeno]

The Freetronics one is (was) about $80. I bought one last year or
thereabouts, from Jaycar too, and it was reasonable value, I thought,
compared to assembling the components myself. Even added a few modules
to it later on. With the book, it's a good starter kit and I don't
begrudge Freetronics the profit they may have made.

From the website, it looks like that kit is $109 now though I'm not
sure it's quite the same kit.


--

Xeno

First they ignore you,
Then they ridicule you,
Then they fight you,
Then you win.

Mahatma Ghandi

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Yes, I've run across a few truely impossible ones. Lighting can be
important though, florescent lights don't put out the complete
colour spectrum, which can be the cause of colour code issues.

Holding it up next to a window, or taking it as a potentially
well needed excuse for a breath of fresh air, can be useful.
Though I find that once the doubt has been planted, I usually
confirm with the DMM afterwards anyway.

[Computer Nerd Kev]

If you accept the "put a component on a PCB and up the price by a
factor of ten" business model, it's probably good value. Anyway, it
appeals to a market, but with a scheme like that there's no doubt
there'll be copiers, it's just a case of how ruthless they'll be.

> From the website, it looks like that kit is $109 now though I'm not
> sure it's quite the same kit.

$89, $0.95 less than Jaycar's $89.95

Links from the Video Description:

http://www.freetronics.com.au/products/experimenters-kit-for-arduino
https://www.jaycar.com.au/duinotech-experiments-kit/p/XC4287

[Sylvia Else]

Rather than store every value in a separate draw (which would take too
much room), I long ago decided to store them according to the first two
digits (so 27, 270, 2K7 etc. go in the same draw). That means that I
only have to look at the multiplier band to locate the one I want. It
used to work fine.

But I find that now I cannot reliably distinguish brown from red, red
from orange, orange from yellow, which means that I'm at risk of getting
a resistor that's an order of magnitude out, and often enough the
multimeter confirms that. It's a right pain.

Sylvia.

[~misfit~]

Once upon a time on usenet Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 19/10/2016 9:14 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI
>>
>> I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with
>> electronics like I use to be.
>> Just cruising!
>>
>> However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention, and
>> I knew I had to do something about it.
>>
>> Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.
>>
>> Cheers Don...
>>
>
> **Another good reason to avoid Jaycar whenever possible. Disgusting.

Seconded. I used to use them often before I knew better but now they are a
very last resort for time-sensitive items that need to over-rule prefernces.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

[Xeno]

I meant the Freetronics kit from Jaycar. http://tinyurl.com/zawsrau
That was the one I bought for $79.95, if I recall correctly. If the kit
in the link I provided is the same, Jaycar has whacked on a huge markup.
I daresay that is to differentiate the Freetronics product from their
own shonky one which they are no doubt making a killing on.

[Xeno]

On 22/10/2016 2:57 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
> Once upon a time on usenet Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 19/10/2016 9:14 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI
>>>
>>> I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with
>>> electronics like I use to be.
>>> Just cruising!
>>>
>>> However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention, and
>>> I knew I had to do something about it.
>>>
>>> Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.
>>>
>>> Cheers Don...
>>>
>>
>> **Another good reason to avoid Jaycar whenever possible. Disgusting.
>
> Seconded. I used to use them often before I knew better but now they are a
> very last resort for time-sensitive items that need to over-rule prefernces.
>

It's the only *local* option here but I may do a lot more mail order in
the future and give Jaycar a big miss.

[keithr0]

On Ebay

Breadboard with 65 connecting wires - $3.71
Arduino Uno - $2.97 - $16.95
servo $8.00
Light sensor $5.00
Rest of the bits maybe $20
total about $39

Better value if you really want a kit for $75.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Professional-UNO-R3-Starter-Kit-for-Arduino-LCD-Compass-Gyro-DIY-AU-Shipping-/152101508791?hash=item2369f4d6b7:g:MhYAAOSwAuNW6YbD

[Jasen Betts]

yeah, if you want to spend $50
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/For-Arduino-starter-Kit-Set-Upgraded-Version-arduino-uno-r3-DIY/32623912358.html?spm=2114.01020208.6.7.OhSC7K&s=p

[~misfit~]

Once upon a time on usenet Xeno wrote:
> On 22/10/2016 2:57 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Once upon a time on usenet Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 19/10/2016 9:14 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI
>>>>
>>>> I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with
>>>> electronics like I use to be.
>>>> Just cruising!
>>>>
>>>> However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention,
>>>> and I knew I had to do something about it.
>>>>
>>>> Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Don...
>>>>
>>>
>>> **Another good reason to avoid Jaycar whenever possible. Disgusting.
>>
>> Seconded. I used to use them often before I knew better but now they
>> are a very last resort for time-sensitive items that need to
>> over-rule prefernces.
> It's the only *local* option here but I may do a lot more mail order
> in the future and give Jaycar a big miss.

Likewise, there is nowhere else I can buy locally. I've started buying mixed
packs of components (as well as selected items) from AliExpress so I'm less
likely to need to go to Jaycar for anything at all.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Wed, 19 Oct 2016 11:09:00 +1100, Bruce
<notarea...@notreal.com> wrote:

>Thanks for that link Don. I've rung and spoken to Jaycar and the guy
>told me they've been flooded with complaints and links about their
>apparent theft of intellectual property and their marketing people are
>sorting out a response. Perhaps there's another side to the story but
>I bet I'm not going to like Jaycar's version.
>
>Cheers Bruce.

https://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html

>On Wed, 19 Oct 2016 09:14:43 +1100, Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:
>
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI
>>
>>I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with electronics like I use to be.
>>Just cruising!
>>
>>However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention, and I knew I had to do something about it.
>>
>>Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.
>>
>>Cheers Don...

--
I call shenanigans on all theistic religions

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On 20 Oct 2016 04:25:08 GMT, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

>On 2016-10-19, Gordon Levi <gor...@address.invalid> wrote:
>> Don McKenzie <5...@2.5A> wrote:
>>
>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI
>>>
>>>I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with electronics like I use to be.
>>>Just cruising!
>>>
>>>However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention, and I knew I had to do something about it.
>>
>> As the video explains this seems to be routine for Jaycar. The only
>> thing I can do about it is to boycott Jaycar. Is there a comparable
>> shop in Melbourne's Eastern suburbs?
>
>If you don't like Jaycar, the other chain is Altroics,

That name is a rip off of Altronics!

[hhedw...@gmail.com]

RE: Is there a comparable shop in Melbourne's Eastern suburbs?

Try Semtronics Pty Ltd in Nunawading
(I have no association with them -just a happy customer)