Ford Everest catches fire on a test drive.

Diesel Damo

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Dec 7, 2015, 1:13:14 AM12/7/15

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It says it took the fireys a while to put it out. I'm not
surprised with all that plastic and shit under the bonnet.
Even blasting shrapnel outwards. Wonderful.

------------------------------------------------------------
http://tinyurl.com/j9wlzmc

I parked the Everest and returned to find it wouldn't unlock using
the key fob despite a number of attempts. The electric tailgate
wouldn't open either.

I finally gained access through the driver's door and tried to
unlock the other doors -- no go. Lucky that didn't happen when the
thing went up in flames.

The Everest took two attempts before it fired up. Once on the road,
things began to go haywire again. Warnings flashed on the instrument
panel that the radar cruise and other functions weren't available.
Then the screen blinked off and the engine cut out. I rolled down
the hill about 300m to a bus stop, pulled in and stopped.

That's when the fireworks began.
------------------------------------------------------------

Jason James

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Dec 7, 2015, 2:36:48 AM12/7/15

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You know, a company as big as Ford can weather many setbacks, but sooner or later even they must wake the hell up and smell the coffee, cause they're at a stage with many, who might just stop looking at what they have to offer when looking for a new/2nd-hand vehicle.

They may think the little things like internal switches made out of crap dont matter,...not so, people remember everything...

Jason

Xeno

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Dec 7, 2015, 6:17:50 AM12/7/15

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I think you'll find people did that quite some time back and that's why
Ford local manufacture is in the shit that it is. The Everest is made in
Thailand and, generally, the quality from there is right up there with
the best of them. I suspect the accountants, and their cost cutting,
have had a hand in this latest issue.

>
> They may think the little things like internal switches made out of
> crap dont matter,...not so, people remember everything...
>
> Jason
>
>

You will find that it is difficult for a company to maintain quality
control when such things as switches are outsourced from places like
China. If you want products made in China, you had best set up your own
manufacturing plants and keep a tight rein on production. Corruption is
rife. My mates daughter is a mechanical engineer with Futuris and she
has been spending time in both China and Thailand and she has had some
interesting stories to tell. In the next few days she will be moving
permanently to the US as Futuris has been awarded a new contract with
Tesla. She has been working with Elon Musk, off and on, for a couple of
years now.

http://tinyurl.com/h993r4x

http://tinyurl.com/zl4fcfg

Some Aussie manufacturers will survive. The problem is, only the ones
who made the move offshore years ago will last out the distance.

--

Xeno

keithr

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Dec 9, 2015, 7:00:33 AM12/9/15

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Ford don't see a problem

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/ford-no-safety-issue-with-everest-20151208-glin7r.html

Noddy

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Dec 9, 2015, 7:29:34 AM12/9/15

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On 09/12/15 11:00 PM, keithr wrote:

> Ford don't see a problem
>
> http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/ford-no-safety-issue-with-everest-20151208-glin7r.html

And why should they? The article claims it was a short started by an
incorrectly fitted battery, which is hardly the fault of the vehicle itself.

If you have information to the contrary, then feel free to share it.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Sylvia Else

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Dec 9, 2015, 8:23:13 PM12/9/15

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Ok, not connecting the battery correctly is not a good look,
particularly when something has contact with something it shouldn't.
But, all the same, how did such a simple mistake send the thing up in
flames?

Sylvia.

felix_unger

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Dec 9, 2015, 8:29:40 PM12/9/15

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might I suggest sparks and petrol vapor?

>
> Sylvia.
>

--
rgds,

Pete
-------
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Noddy

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Dec 9, 2015, 9:22:37 PM12/9/15

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On 10/12/15 12:23 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

> Ok, not connecting the battery correctly is not a good look,
> particularly when something has contact with something it shouldn't.
> But, all the same, how did such a simple mistake send the thing up in
> flames?

Have you ever looked under the bonnet of a relatively new car?

Noddy

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Dec 9, 2015, 9:23:14 PM12/9/15

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On 10/12/15 12:29 PM, felix_unger wrote:

>
> might I suggest sparks and petrol vapor?

Suggest all you like Vagina boy, but it's clear you have no idea.

D Walford

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Dec 9, 2015, 9:36:07 PM12/9/15

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Lots of arcing causing lots of heat and lots of flammable material
equals a fire.

--
Daryl

Jason James

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Dec 9, 2015, 9:48:50 PM12/9/15

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Indeed... fuel, oxygen,...heat = fire

Jason

Noddy

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Dec 9, 2015, 9:56:08 PM12/9/15

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On 10/12/15 1:35 PM, D Walford wrote:

> Lots of arcing causing lots of heat and lots of flammable material
> equals a fire.

Pretty much.

The engine bays of modern cars are *loaded* with plastic, and it doesn't
take much for an under bonnet fire to get out of control.

Sylvia Else

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Dec 10, 2015, 2:49:50 AM12/10/15

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There shouldn't be flammable material anywhere where significant arcing
is in prospect.

Sylvia.

Sylvia Else

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Dec 10, 2015, 2:50:56 AM12/10/15

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There shouldn't be petrol vapour there. Sparks happen on the road
sometimes, after all.

Sylvia.

Xeno

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Dec 10, 2015, 3:04:35 AM12/10/15

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There generally isn't. The problem lies in how fire retardant plastic
deals with fire. This article deals with the issue;

http://tinyurl.com/zbgxtz9

The salient point is this;

> Modern vehicles contain hundreds of pounds of plastic material, the
> majority of which are thermoplastics containing flame retardant.
> Thermoplastic melting temperatures are approximately 340°F and up.
> It is not until these plastics begin to melt that the fire retardant
> gets driven out. At this point, the material becomes virgin plastic,
> and will burn intensely.

My take on the Ford Everest issue is that they really needed a scapegoat
and a battery change in Thailand is as good as any. I suspect there is a
lot more to the story than we will ever be likely to find out.

--

Xeno

Noddy

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Dec 10, 2015, 4:30:01 AM12/10/15

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On 10/12/15 6:49 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

> There shouldn't be flammable material anywhere where significant arcing
> is in prospect.

It may have escaped your view, but cars are *loaded* with flammable
materials and significant arcing isn't a normal prospect.

Noddy

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Dec 10, 2015, 4:35:54 AM12/10/15

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On 10/12/15 6:50 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

>> might I suggest sparks and petrol vapor?
>>
> There shouldn't be petrol vapour there.

That's right. There shouldn't be. Mr. Unger doesn't know his arse from
his elbow when it comes to such things, and is talking nonsense.

> Sparks happen on the road sometimes, after all.

Really? When was the last time you saw such an event?

If the article quoted is to be believed, it was a direct unfused battery
short that would have created enough heat to weld with. Anything that
was in the area that wasn't made of metal was going up in smoke, and
given that modern cars are loaded with plastic, rubber and other easily
burnt materials it certainly doesn't take long before a small fire
becomes a very big one.

A matter of minutes usually, and often in single digits.

D Walford

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Dec 10, 2015, 6:39:13 AM12/10/15

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LOL, it would be near impossible to build a car to meet that criteria.
The point is there should never be any significant arcing, it is a very
unusual fault in cars that haven't had a big crash.
I've not seen or heard of another example except where a car has been in
a major collision, the first thing I do if I am unlucky enough to see a
major crash is to try and disconnect the cars battery, its the best way
to reduce the risk of a fire.

--
Daryl

keithr

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Dec 10, 2015, 6:48:47 AM12/10/15

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Perhaps you could explain why anybody would think that I would have any
information to the contrary, "Ford don't see a problem" is a statement
of fact not an opinion.

Sylvia Else

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Dec 10, 2015, 8:02:00 AM12/10/15

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I don't think that's true, at least if one assumes that the actual
wiring doesn't fail. Arcing due to a badly fitted connector wouldn't
usually be enough to be a problem, and if a connector comes loose and
touches something it shouldn't, one would expect a fuse to blow before a
larger arc can do any harm. Further, the wiring look will usually impose
some limitation on what an unconnected wire can touch.

Starter motor wiring might be a special case, but if that wasn't
connected properly, the car wouldn't have started.

In the incident car, if one's to believe Ford, a connector that should
be been attached to the battery had enough scope for movement to touch
something else, no fuse protected it, and there was something flammable
right there to be ignited. Actually, I'm not sure I'm buying it.

Sylvia.

Noddy

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Dec 10, 2015, 8:10:24 AM12/10/15

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On 11/12/15 12:01 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:

>
> I don't think that's true, at least if one assumes that the actual
> wiring doesn't fail. Arcing due to a badly fitted connector wouldn't
> usually be enough to be a problem, and if a connector comes loose and
> touches something it shouldn't, one would expect a fuse to blow before a
> larger arc can do any harm.

What fuse?

If the positive lead end touches something metal on the negatively
earthed body you'll get an instant dead short with no fuse in between
them to prevent it. It's no different to getting a piece of metal rod
and bending it to touch both battery terminals at the same time.

With some of the batteries in today's cars, doing so could see the rod melt.

> Further, the wiring look will usually impose
> some limitation on what an unconnected wire can touch.
>
> Starter motor wiring might be a special case, but if that wasn't
> connected properly, the car wouldn't have started.

The wire was connected. The battery cable was connected wrong.

> In the incident car, if one's to believe Ford, a connector that should
> be been attached to the battery had enough scope for movement to touch
> something else, no fuse protected it, and there was something flammable
> right there to be ignited. Actually, I'm not sure I'm buying it.

I'm sure they're pleased about that. I know I would be.

D Walford

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Dec 10, 2015, 5:43:59 PM12/10/15

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I'm afraid that just shows up your lack of experience with cars, if you
have even seen a battery being dead shorted you would know that it can
create a huge arc, I've seen battery terminals melted off batteries so
fast you don't have enough time to do anything about it.
Its why I refuse to wear any rings on my fingers, I once shorted a
battery with a ring which arced and melted causing a very nasty burn.
There are no fuses in the main power cable that runs from the battery to
the starter on any car, there is usually a fuse in the form of a fusible
link in the main power feed to the cars electrics.

> Starter motor wiring might be a special case, but if that wasn't
> connected properly, the car wouldn't have started.

In this case it sounds like it was loose and then fell off at some
stage, a loose battery connection won't always stop a car starting, it
may have been tight enough to allow a start then dislodged when the car
hit a decent bump, also the battery might not have been secured properly.

>
> In the incident car, if one's to believe Ford, a connector that should
> be been attached to the battery had enough scope for movement to touch
> something else, no fuse protected it, and there was something flammable
> right there to be ignited. Actually, I'm not sure I'm buying it.
>

Funny then how mechanics with plenty of hands on experience think
otherwise, I've seen cars catch fire after a crash where the battery has
been crushed but there was no fuel leaks, even wiring insulation can
catch fire, I've seen that many times.
If there is anything to note its that the car lasted 3mths with no
evidence of a fault, its also a failure of the pre delivery service and
any subsequent service the car is supposed to get, checking the
tightness of battery connections is usually listed in service
instructions as one of the things to check at all services.

--
Daryl

Jason James

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Dec 10, 2015, 6:22:33 PM12/10/15

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On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 9:43:59 AM UTC+11, D Walford wrote:

> I'm afraid that just shows up your lack of experience with cars, if you
> have even seen a battery being dead shorted you would know that it can
> create a huge arc, I've seen battery terminals melted off batteries so
> fast you don't have enough time to do anything about it.
> Its why I refuse to wear any rings on my fingers, I once shorted a
> battery with a ring which arced and melted causing a very nasty burn.

One fellow shorted a large 24v battery set with his wrist-watch metal band. Left a neat looking red band mark,...I had occassion to pull up staff who during their break decided to check their car battery electrolyte with a fag in their hand/mouth. A hydrogen explosion is on the cards,..tho thankfully not that common. To really be safe from this, you'd need to complete the battery lead connection by doing the earth-cable to chassis last [meaning away from the batt]

Jason

Sylvia Else

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Dec 10, 2015, 8:32:03 PM12/10/15

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The crash scenario is somewhat different, in that insulation can be
damaged in multiple places, and fuses may end up being bypasses. In a
crash, all bets are off.

But the incident car hadn't crashed.

Sylvia.

D Walford

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Dec 10, 2015, 9:19:26 PM12/10/15

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I am well aware of that, the fact remains that it was a pretty unusual
incident but it does demonstrate that it is possible for arcing to cause
a fire.

--
Daryl

Noddy

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Dec 10, 2015, 9:43:07 PM12/10/15

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On 11/12/15 12:32 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

> The crash scenario is somewhat different, in that insulation can be
> damaged in multiple places, and fuses may end up being bypasses. In a
> crash, all bets are off.
>
> But the incident car hadn't crashed.

Read the article. It was stated that the battery was fitted incorrectly
with a powered lead contacting the negatively earthed body. The result
of which is *exactly* the same as the damage you could see in an accident.

Between the positive battery terminal and the earthed body/chassis,
there are no fuses.

Jason James

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Dec 10, 2015, 11:09:01 PM12/10/15

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Batteries are potential bombs. They hold enormous energy capable of at least 600++ amps [lock-torque current drain from the series-wound starter-motor for example] They emit hydrogen en masse if overcharged,..that tells the story. An exploded battery event aint pretty, especially if you have your dial under the bonnet at the time.

Jason