Laser Scheduling

[Amy]

We've got someone with one email address using 2 different names to
hog 4hr time blocks from 6pm-10pm all week.
this is against laser rules and unfair to those of us that want/need to use it.

[Robert Ristroph]

Hi Amy,

Can you check that the offending reservations you are seeing are
actually on the laser calendar and not another one, and that you are
on the right week ?

I have attached a screenshot of what I see on the laser calendar,
and I clicked on the reservations to make sure that they were
different email addresses. It looks within the rules to me. In
particular the Red Laser is not reserved at 6pm for Wednesday, Friday,
or Saturday.

--Rob

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[Thomas Elrod]

The calendar looked different this morning. There where the Alvin and Sean reserved spots every day across the week. Some have moved/been removed since I last looked at the calendar.

On Nov 28, 2016 21:33, "Robert Ristroph" <rgris...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Amy,

   Can you check that the offending reservations you are seeing are
actually on the laser calendar and not another one, and that you are
on the right week ?

   I have attached a screenshot of what I see on the laser calendar,
and I clicked on the reservations to make sure that they were
different email addresses.  It looks within the rules to me.  In
particular the Red Laser is not reserved at 6pm for Wednesday, Friday,
or Saturday.

--Rob


On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Amy <pensy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We've got someone with one email address using 2 different names to
> hog 4hr time blocks from 6pm-10pm all week.
> this is against laser rules and unfair to those of us that want/need to use it.
>
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[Danny Miller]

The two names actually ARE two different members working on a
collaborative project. However the two reservations were made from one
person's account.

However, the rules aren't being followed here all around- in fact,
they're not even STATED correctly here at the top of the page. I will
edit if I can.

You may only have 2 hrs reserved on the calendar per day, and only 2hrs
reserved total on the calendar at any one time.

That is, perhaps you'd like to have 7pm-9pm every night for the next two
weeks. You can reserve 7-9pm on Monday. You cannot reserve Monday AND
Tuesday.

When you're done at 9PM on Monday, you can look at the calendar and see
if 7PM-9PM is open on Tuesday, and if it is, you're free to take it.
Maybe 1-3PM is open and you'll take it if you can get it. Maybe the
hours "good" for you are booked Tuesday and Wednesday, but not Thurs,
you can book Thursday.

But you CANNOT book Monday and Tuesday, even if you asked a month in
advance. That's to prevent people from locking up the calendar in
advance. At one point we had a case where someone just booked the same
2 hrs every day for the next 3 months because... why not.

Well, technically we have that second "bumpable" slot, but it doesn't
mean much and I'm not sure why we have it. It's not a hard reservation
anymore.

And outside of the 2 hrs entitled reservation, if no one else is using
it at those hours, we have no interest in it NOT being used. Hourly
operating costs are very low. If no one else has it reserved and we
don't have multiple people who've already used up their 2 hr daily
reservation getting into a fight over it, I don't care if someone uses
it 10 hrs straight through the night, "bumpable" or not.

Danny

[Amy]

Since I made the complaint publicly, the reservation times were moved.
They are from 10pm-2am now, but still 8hra of time EACH blocked out. 16hrs is ridiculous. The rest of us make do and cooperate .

@Danny, I thought the laser rules were 4hrs on the cal at any one time- in 2 hr chunks.
Not just 2 hrs.

On Nov 28, 2016 9:33 PM, "Robert Ristroph" <rgris...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Amy,

   Can you check that the offending reservations you are seeing are
actually on the laser calendar and not another one, and that you are
on the right week ?

   I have attached a screenshot of what I see on the laser calendar,
and I clicked on the reservations to make sure that they were
different email addresses.  It looks within the rules to me.  In
particular the Red Laser is not reserved at 6pm for Wednesday, Friday,
or Saturday.

--Rob


On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Amy <pensy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We've got someone with one email address using 2 different names to
> hog 4hr time blocks from 6pm-10pm all week.
> this is against laser rules and unfair to those of us that want/need to use it.
>
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[H Pack]

From my understanding of this, the 2 guys who share this same email are 2 separate people.

The usage for laser is 2 hours and 2 hours bumpable. 

Since these are in fact 2 different guys them working on the same projects using the laser this way they are using the 2 hour + 2 hour they each have and the 2 hour bumpable between them to a total of 8 hours yes. 

I think they've been talked to about not using the same email to schedule times, but I'm sure we can go over that with them again.

But looking at that criteria that they're falling under, it doesn't look like anything is actually being abused/broken as far as our regulations go. 

If they are conflicting regularly with a time frame that you want to use, you might want to try emailing them or coming up to the space and talking directly to see if y'all can arrange a time for their project , or for you to come in and use the laser when you need. 

[Amy]

They have 32 hours on the cal.
That is 4x the 8 hrs they should have

[pjennings-atxhs]

I appreciate the idea of the bumpable slot because I often have enough flexibility to avoid someone else's bumpable slot. Otherwise I have no idea if they really only needed 2 hours or if they wanted more. I think the 2 hour guarantee plus 2 hours bumpable plus free-for-all if no one is sitting there is a good compromise between scheduling overhead/abuse and maximizing utilization. 

I was aware of the 2 hour per day limit, but I was not aware of the 2 hour total limit. It is possible that I was informed but misheard or misunderstood. Now that I know about it, I think this is also a good rule. As Amy mentioned, it is currently being violated by Alvin/Sean since they have reservations every day through Sunday except tomorrow. 

In any case, the text on the laser calendar page should be updated with whatever the rules actually are. As it is now, it doesn't even explicitly say that there is a 2 hour per day limit.

Paul

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[Sean Boose]

heya, i'm half of those slots.

we went ahead and removed the offending slots and weren't aware of the two-hours-per-person-total limit. sorry about that.

[alvinycheung]

Hi Amy,

I see you haven't been on the laser in over a month and are having trouble with the layout of the laser schedule, something that I seem to have caused you quite a bit of grief over. My and Sean's overages in laser scheduling have been removed immediately upon finding this thread and are now aware of these previously unstated rule about having a 2 hour total limit. Sorry about that, please accept my apology.

-Alvin

[Joe N]

Thank you Sean, Alvin, and Amy for this getting this cleared up.

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[Clairissa Simmons]

Who can ensure the laser pages have the most clear and updated rules?

[Robert Ristroph]

I don't think Alvin and Sean did anything wrong. It's OK for two
people to collaborate and reserve slots accordingly, and I put
reservations on behalf of people who have calendar problems all the
time.

I don't remember exactly what the limitation was on how many slots you
can on the calendar at a time, but I can find a proposal to limit it
to 2 per person at once back in 2014. It's not clear if that included
"bumpable" or if bumpable came later, and in any case there's no
evidence of a Helios vote actually going out.

However, this is Earth, not Betazed, no one can read anyone's mind.
If there's a policy that's NOT on the wiki ( which any member can edit
) then it IS NOT POLICY. Alvin and Sean joined after that
discussion, and it's silly to expect them to know about it if it was
not written down.

The main problem then was people pre-reserving time and then not
showing up or canceling at the last minute. Please remember to cancel
any reservation as soon as you know you can't make it, especially
since we are getting into the Christmas season and the laser will see
a lot of heavy use.

To edit the wiki go to the upper right hand corner and click "request
account" if you don't have one.

--Rob

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Clairissa Simmons
<clair...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Who can ensure the laser pages have the most clear and updated rules?
>
>>

[dan...@austin.rr.com]

The rules have been unchanged since we first got it at the Rutherford building.

1 2hr reservation and 1 "bumpable" 2hr reservation. That's both per-day and on-the-calendar-at-any-one-time. No problem using more hrs if it's not reserved.

Those are the original rules.

The 2014 proposal came up because a member had pre-reserved 2hrs+2hr bumpable like 4 days of the week for the next 3 months of calendar time. The proposal was withdrawn when it became apparent that we already had a rule against multiple reservations that was partially forgotten at the time.


Also at the time of the 2014 proposal, there were accusations of people not showing up for reservations. There was talk of somehow monitoring and punishment for taking a reservation and not using it. IMHO there's both no practicality to that because we're not set up to record who's using it, and weird/unfriendly to do something like that to individuals. The problem seems to have been tied to the mistake of booking time every day "just in case I need it, but I can't show up every day, things come up". The proposal of punishment was deferred once the "only one hard reservation" was brought up, and the problem seems to have gone away on its own once we reasserted the rule.

Danny

[Yama Ploskonka]

Danny, two questions

1), where are the rules, in the wiki? could you provide a link, please? (as someone mentioned, that's where they should live, and IMHO, that's the authoritative site for rules, not the forum)

2) what about people reserving two hours Red *and* two hours Blue? Is that OK (IMHO, no, it's not OK)

Thank you!

On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 11:58:02 AM UTC-6, Danny wrote:wo

[dan...@austin.rr.com]

They're not on the Wiki AFAIK. Not much is. I don't have an account to edit it. The rules that are listed there are also poorly worded.

As I recall, Red and Blue are two separate tools and thus you could technically have one reservation for each one at the same time on the schedule. There was some discussion on whether that made sense but no actual actionable plan for it.

Danny

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[Amy]

@sean and alvin-
I'm sorry this turned into such a big stink. I was informed pretty
brusquely at my red laser training of the '4hrs at any one time on the
laser schedule' rule... which seems to be inaccurate- even though it
is the rule that many professionals were abiding by. This was indeed
because 3-4ppl were scheduling themselves for the majority of the
'prime' laser time for months at a time.

I am sorry for my poor attitude to you about it.

lol
Now we have ppl scheduling entire 4hr blocks over the next 3 days
totaling 12 hrs and they are siting this thread??
*sigh*
We just need some clear, fair rules. They kinda suck. They are
inconvenient. But the lasers are one of our biggest draws, and we need
to use them fairly.

[flip]

Thanks for clarifying the rules. I've removed offending blocks of time and will be careful to observe them in future.

flip 

[ATXHS Public Relations]

Guys, I'm closing this thread here. If you want to continue the discussion of laser rules we can do it on the member's forum where it belongs.

In the future, use atxhs-members for all member and facility related discussions.

David Glusenco
Director of Public Relations
www.atxhs.org | p...@atxhs.org

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