DustDeputy upgrade

[evan]

The 5-gallon plastic bucket on the DustDeputy could use some improvement. I considered some circular baffles inside the bucket for some crush-resistance, but something like a 10-gallon steel drum would be even better, and I believe the size that cart was intended to accommodate.

I toured a few scrap yards looking for anything even remotely close and airtight but found next to nothing. Does anyone have any suggestions as to sourcing one of these less expensively than they can be found new online ($56 pictured)?

[Robert Ristroph]

It would be cool if it was clear or had a clear lid so we could see
when it was full.

I searched for a clear bucket on uline and other places but didn't
find one that was appropriate. There are some can liners for 55 gal
drums of PET or other transparent plastic, but I doubt those would
withstand the suction without re-enforcement.

We could make one out of a sheet of acrylic heated with a heat gun and
wrapped around disks of plywood for the top and bottom. But it seems
like more work than necessary.

Maybe the best option is to go with a metal can and try to make a lid
out of thick acrylic or with an acrylic window.

--Rob

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 6:52 PM, evan <ev...@evanweinberger.com> wrote:
> The 5-gallon plastic bucket on the DustDeputy could use some improvement. I considered some circular baffles inside the bucket for some crush-resistance, but something like a 10-gallon steel drum would be even better, and I believe the size that cart was intended to accommodate.
>
> I toured a few scrap yards looking for anything even remotely close and airtight but found next to nothing. Does anyone have any suggestions as to sourcing one of these less expensively than they can be found new online ($56 pictured)?
>

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[Jeffrey Cicolani]

We could go with a metal or plastic can, cut out a window along one side, then use acrylic, some gasket or weather stripping, and a few screws to make a level gauge. Still a lot of work, but a lot less than bending acrylic to the same size.

Jeffrey Cicolani

Vice President

The Robot Group

http://therobotgroup.org

See my most recent geekiness at www.cicolanistudios.com

"Power to the people powerful enough to crush the other people" Joss Whedon

"Always be yourself... unless you suck." Joss Whedon

[Joseph Bridgewater]

Does it need to be bucket shaped?  Maybe it does, and perhaps there's critical size constraints too, but could something like this be used:

http://www.target.com/p/sterilite-air-tight-storage-tote-transparent-with-aquarium-blue-latch-54qt/-/A-15079778#prodSlot=_1_11

[Robert Ristroph]

That's a good idea Joseph.

It will fit on the cart better if it's round though. Also, the
suction is pretty strong -- if you put your hand over the vacuum hose
it can collapse an ordinary 5 gal paint bucket. We'll have to make a
plywood insert to hold it open if it is too weak.

--Rob

[sarole]

Those steel drums are a rip off.

I'm actually thinking maybe we can build a rectangular box of the correct size using MDF. It can have a lid with a foam gasket and made of thick acrylic.

If we use the right kind of joinery (I like rabbets and dados)  we could build it to be implosion resistant.

Or we could go a step further and make a drawer which can be removed for dust collection. That way the dust deputy and the drawer housing can be screwed down to the cart.

The seals don't have to be super tight, if there is a foam gasket the negative pressure will hold the seal.

We do need a better hose from the cyclone to the various sanders and such. Bosch makes a nice one: 

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-VAC005-5-Meter-Vacuum-Hose/dp/B0000AV78B

[Danny Miller]

Evan is on the right track. These normally use 10 gal steel drums,
which are able to withstand that vacuum. Larger drums probably can't,
which is a shame, because I can get 55 gal drums anywhere. But 55 gal
is too big anyhow.

I'm at a loss how to get one cheaply. No one on Craigslist has anything
but 55 gal barrels. Amazon's got 10 gal, but for $56:

http://www.amazon.com/SKOLNIK-Carbon-Steel-gallons-0-9mm/dp/B006P5RKWK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442477239&sr=8-1&keywords=10+gallon+drum

Huh actually Woodcraft shows they used 17 gal drums, not 10 gal, but
they're $100:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/154756/oneida-air-systems-17gallon-steel-drum-for-super-dust-deputy.aspx

Already have a hole cut in the top.

They may come in different gauges. Some risk that if that's the case
and we blindly get a super-thin one, it'd crush itself in the vacuum.

Danny

[sarole]

There is some sort of relationship between blower CFM and the size of the drum you can use. The air has to be pumped out at a certain rate and speed in order to keep the cyclone going. Too big an air volume will defeat that.

The right size drum volume should be about 5 gal for that sized dust deputy and vac. 10 Gal can probably work.

The steel drum woodcraft sells is designed for a super dust deputy, which I think has a bigger inlet/outlet and designed for a dust collector with much higher CFM. I may be wrong here, but that is what I found when reading up about this.

The brief amount of time I spent looking at this, it became clear building a custom box to do this job makes the most economic sense.

Sundeep

[Danny Miller]

The container is on the low pressure side.  It will absolutely crush the thick plastic bucket.  MDF probably isn't a viable material.  Plus it needs to be large capacity and easy to dump out, MDF is heavy.

Woodcraft does sell "high quality" vacuum hose:

http://www.woodcraft.com/search2/search.aspx?query=vacuum%20hose

Well, some are "high quality", some are just hoses.  They come in different diameters and the end fittings do need to match.

Danny

[Sundeep Arole]

Well, one possibility is to buy 18ga steel sheet and roll our own drum. The bottom can be welded on, the top could be wood with a groove to accommodate the steel. We can line the groove with a rubber gasket. The pressure will clamp the lid down, so simple clamps to hold the lid will be sufficient.

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[Evan Weinberger]

If we roll our own, we would have to find a way to raise chines or ribs around the circumference, or the steel would just buckle like the plastic. Imagine a soda can, very strong when pressurized or under compression, but very weak in vacuum. 

This could be done with a custom stake anvil and a lot of patience, but again, what we would save in cost we lose multiple times over in time and labor. 

[Tim Fredlund]

Would this be a non-issue if someone put the money forward for the correct, re-inforced, 10gal can? I'm willing to put that money forward for this project; we've gone far, far, (embarrassingly far) too long without a good dust-collection solution.

Tim Fredlund | @ethosrot | #tc

[Danny Miller]

The drum would have to have deep fluting, and I don't think that's practical for us to do.  18ga steel will likely collapse under that sort of force.  Most of the stiffness comes from the flutes.

AH- how about kegs???

http://austin.craigslist.org/for/5224354191.html

http://austin.craigslist.org/for/5191545320.html

Lotsa stainless or aluminum kegs on Craigslist.

Also, there's a blue and a yellow shop vac I brought over to see what we could do with.  I know one's got a "dubious" motor.  Maybe the shell itself would be good??  Obviously it can handle the low pressure.


Danny

[Danny Miller]

The 10-gal should be fluted to the appropriate strength.

This is NOT a shop dust collector.  We're just talking about improving the dust collector cart, which does work except that if you close off the hose by letting it flatten against something, the bucket collapses itself.

Danny

[Evan Weinberger]

I agree, and I'll happily split the cost.

[Joe N]

I'm in for $10

[Sundeep Arole]

MDF is heavy, yes, but we are talking about a box of size which would roughly accommodate a 5gal pail. I haven't worked the numbers, but that can't be too much heavier than 2way speakers I've built before. I could trivially lift and move those.

But, all said and done, by the time we count materials and labor, the purchased solutions seem to make sense.

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[Sundeep Arole]

If we are crowdfunding, we should include a tool hose in the order. I don't know much about the woodcraft one, but there is a very similar one by Powertech on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Collection-Power-Fittings-Peachtree-Woodworking/dp/B000XXXT9S

People don't like it as much as the Bosch one I linked earlier. But then, it also costs half as much.

I'm in for $10 if we get both items.

[Evan Weinberger]

I don't know if the fittings on that hose are a common diameter - I believe many of ours are 1-1/4".

[Sundeep Arole]

I don't know either.  But the answered questions indicate the small end outside diameter is roughly 1 1/4 if that helps any. I think there is a small taper so the diameter varies a bit.

[sarole]

Of course the tool hose is just a nice thing to add. We certainly don't have to get it. We probably can make do with the larger shop vac hose and some kind of reducer.

My earlier post was a bit confusing, I'm good for $10 either way. If we raise enough for the drum and the hose, great; otherwise we get just the drum.