5 months and I'm stll an atheist

[Neil Kelsey]

Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
despite her prayers I haven't seen anything. I did see a hummingbird
on January 3rd in Canada, which might be considered a minor sort of
miracle, but hummingbirds aren't God.

[Simon Ewins]

They may be.

1) If God answers to no one then no one can prove that anything or anyone is not God.

2) If no one can prove that anything or anyone is not God then anything or anyone may be God.

3) If anything or anyone may be God this makes "God" meaningless.

But Hummingbirds would be an excellent choice.

;)

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 5, 9:36 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 5, 2011 12:07:35 PM UTC-5, Neil Kelsey wrote:
>
> > Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
> > despite her prayers I haven't seen anything. I did see a hummingbird
> > on January 3rd in Canada, which might be considered a minor sort of
> > miracle, but hummingbirds aren't God.
>
> They may be.
>
> 1) If God answers to no one then no one can prove that anything or anyone is
> not God.

I hear the Christian God answers prayers when he isn't busy answering
to no one. I think it's Section IV, Article 3, Clause 2.a of the
Christian Manual of Mental Gymnastics, the part about "how to blithely
contradict yourself without blinking".

> 2) If no one can prove that anything or anyone is not God then anything or
> anyone may be God.
> 3) If anything or anyone may be God this makes "God" meaningless.

Works for me. I know for sure that I am not God.

> But Hummingbirds would be an excellent choice.
>
> ;)

If I feel joy from seeing a hummingbird (and I do), does that mean I
am a Christian, since they are the only ones who feel joy?

[Simon Ewins]

On Wednesday, January 5, 2011 1:18:42 PM UTC-5, Neil Kelsey wrote:

I dunno. However, I know I did feel Joy quite frequently in high school. Hmmm, I should look her up again.

[Wes]

>God would "make himself known to me"

13And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with
all your heart. 14And I will be found of you, saith the LORD:

[Simon Ewins]

On Wednesday, January 5, 2011 7:47:25 PM UTC-5, Wes wrote:

>God would "make himself known to me"

13And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with
all your heart. 14And I will be found of you, saith the LORD:

Another robot checks in.

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 5, 4:47 pm, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >God would "make himself known to me"
>

> 13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with
> all your heart. 14 And I will be found of you, saith the LORD:

You don't understand. Thea, a Christian, "guaranteed" that God would
"make himself known" to me because she put me on her prayer list. That
means that I don't have to seek God at all, not with all my heart, not
even with a quarter of my heart and all four of my kidneys (yes, I
have four kidneys). That means that God is supposed to come and find
*me*. So far, nothing. Where is he? Could it be that God doesn't
answer prayers because God doesn't exist?

> On Jan 5, 9:07 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
> > despite her prayers I haven't seen anything. I did see a hummingbird
> > on January 3rd in Canada, which might be considered a minor sort of

> > miracle, but hummingbirds aren't God.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Neil Kelsey]

She may have changed quite a bit...

[Wes]

> 2) If no one can prove that anything or anyone is not God then anything or
> anyone may be God.

>Works for me. I know for sure that I am not God.

6I have said, Ye are gods;

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most
High.

7But ye shall die like men


But ye shall die


51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall
never see death.

52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil.
Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my
saying, he shall never taste of death.

26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest
thou this? - http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/

God told me, I've already got the life - Korn-http://www.elyrics.net/
read/k/korn-lyrics/got-the-life-lyrics.html

[Simon Ewins]

On Wednesday, January 5, 2011 8:06:17 PM UTC-5, Neil Kelsey wrote:

Sadly, if she has grown as old and flabby as I have, the thought loses some considerable amount of appeal.

Oh dear.

[thea]

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 5, 4:47 pm, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >God would "make himself known to me"
>

> 13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with
> all your heart. 14 And I will be found of you, saith the LORD:

You don't understand. Thea, a Christian, "guaranteed" that God would
"make himself known" to me because she put me on her prayer list. That
means that I don't have to seek God at all, not with all my heart, not
even with a quarter of my heart and all four of my kidneys (yes, I
have four kidneys). That means that God is supposed to come and find
*me*. So far, nothing. Where is he? Could it be that God doesn't
answer prayers because God doesn't exist?

Like I have said before - HE, God, is making Himself known to you and
you are so busy kicking and screaming for the exit - that it is all your
fault you have not seen HIM. 
 

> On Jan 5, 9:07 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
> > despite her prayers I haven't seen anything. I did see a hummingbird
> > on January 3rd in Canada, which might be considered a minor sort of

> > miracle, but hummingbirds aren't God.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 5, 5:14 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 5, 4:47 pm, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >God would "make himself known to me"
>
> > > 13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with
> > > all your heart. 14 And I will be found of you, saith the LORD:
>
> > You don't understand. Thea, a Christian, "guaranteed" that God would
> > "make himself known" to me because she put me on her prayer list. That
> > means that I don't have to seek God at all, not with all my heart, not
> > even with a quarter of my heart and all four of my kidneys (yes, I
> > have four kidneys). That means that God is supposed to come and find
> > *me*. So far, nothing. Where is he? Could it be that God doesn't
> > answer prayers because God doesn't exist?
>
> Like I have said before - HE, God, is making Himself known to you and
> you are so busy kicking and screaming for the exit - that it is all your
> fault you have not seen HIM.

No, he hasn't shown up. I'm pretty sure I would remember.

It is not my fault that your prayers are ineffective and that your
"guarantee" is worthless.

> > > On Jan 5, 9:07 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
> > > > despite her prayers I haven't seen anything. I did see a hummingbird
> > > > on January 3rd in Canada, which might be considered a minor sort of
> > > > miracle, but hummingbirds aren't God.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit­y%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

> > For more options, visit this group at

> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 5, 5:07 pm, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 2) If no one can prove that anything or anyone is not God then anything or
> > anyone may be God.
> >Works for me. I know for sure that I am not God.
>
> 6I have said, Ye are gods;

No, I'm not. I have no magic powers. Neither does any other human.

> 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most

> High.
>
> 7But ye shall die like men
>
> But ye shall die
>
> 51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall
> never see death.
>
> 52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil.
> Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my
> saying, he shall never taste of death.
>
> 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest

> thou this? -http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/

>
> God told me, I've already got the life - Korn-http://www.elyrics.net/
> read/k/korn-lyrics/got-the-life-lyrics.html

Time for you to stop proselytizing...

> On Jan 5, 10:18 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 5, 9:36 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Wednesday, January 5, 2011 12:07:35 PM UTC-5, Neil Kelsey wrote:
>
> > > > Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
> > > > despite her prayers I haven't seen anything. I did see a hummingbird
> > > > on January 3rd in Canada, which might be considered a minor sort of
> > > > miracle, but hummingbirds aren't God.
>
> > > They may be.
>
> > > 1) If God answers to no one then no one can prove that anything or anyone is
> > > not God.
>
> > I hear the Christian God answers prayers  when he isn't busy answering
> > to no one. I think it's Section IV, Article 3, Clause 2.a of the
> > Christian Manual of Mental Gymnastics, the part about "how to blithely
> > contradict yourself without blinking".
>
> > > 2) If no one can prove that anything or anyone is not God then anything or
> > > anyone may be God.
> > > 3) If anything or anyone may be God this makes "God" meaningless.
>
> > Works for me. I know for sure that I am not God.
>
> > > But Hummingbirds would be an excellent choice.
>
> > > ;)
>
> > If I feel joy from seeing a hummingbird (and I do), does that mean I

> > am a Christian, since they are the only ones who feel joy?- Hide quoted text -

[Wes]

> Time for you to stop proselytizing...

I'm not trying to convert you, just inform you and others.

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 5, 5:29 pm, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Time for you to stop proselytizing...
>
> I'm not trying to convert you, just inform you and others.

Of course you're trying to convert me, and I'm trying to deconvert
you. You can tell this because you're arguing your case for
Christianity and I'm arguing my case for atheism.

Is there some secret agreement amongst Christians to never admit that
they are trying to convert others?

[Wes]

> Another robot checks in.

I bet I'm more open minded and rational than you.

[Wes]

>Of course you're trying to convert me, and I'm trying to deconvert
you. You can tell this because you're arguing your case for
Christianity and I'm arguing my case for atheism.

I guess i hope you’ll convert but I wasn’t arguing my case why I’m a
Christian I was just showing you what their book says. I can’t hardly
stand going to church (now I’m arguing why I’m not a Christian) but i
used to love watching sermons and teachings on T.V., I’m just a guy
who needs to figure it out because I’m unhappy with the way it is. I
showed you that their book says we are gods and never having a funeral
is an option, but nobody preaches that. Also if you listen to them
they tell you to send all your money even after you run out so you
become penniless and then they tell you to get a job you lazy bum.
There’s millions of us trapped in an ungainful employment prison,
which of these jobs do you want me to take? so I’m unhappy and this is
my way of doing something about it. Love your employee as yourself?
Some people go postal and some do school shootings but what i do is
try to convert people to what I think is right.

[Wes]

> 6I have said, Ye are gods;
>No, I'm not. I have no magic powers. Neither does any other human.

Apparently I have magical powers, after my last post I started to
check my email and this is the first one I checked. It’s from a weekly
quote site and they never do this type, they usually do more
philosophical quotes. So it’s the first one I checked and
interestingly they used a lower case g for god, I’ve been using lower
case god but they shouldn’t have. I think it’s a small miracle, but
you must admit it’s a good coincidence.


Here’s the quote-


In order for life to have appeared spontaneously on Earth, there first
had to be hundreds of millions of protein molecules of the Ninth
Configuration. But, given the size of the planet Earth, do you know
how long it would take for just one of these protein molecules to
appear by chance? Roughly 10 to the 243rd power, billions of years;
and I find that far, far more fantastic than simply believing in a
god.

- William Peter Blatty, "The Ninth Configuration (movie)


Here’s the site - http://www.quoteland.com/

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Trance Gemini]

Just curious Wes. Why do you use a lower case 'g' in god?

On 2011-01-07 5:22 AM, "Wes" <wesley...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> 6I have said, Ye are gods;
>No, I'm not. I have no magic powers. Neither does any other human.

Apparently I have magical powers, after my last post I started to
check my email and this is the first one I checked. It’s from a weekly
quote site and they never do this type, they usually do more
philosophical quotes. So it’s the first one I checked and
interestingly they used a lower case g for god, I’ve been using lower
case god but they shouldn’t have. I think it’s a small miracle, but
you must admit it’s a good coincidence.


Here’s the quote-


In order for life to have appeared spontaneously on Earth, there first
had to be hundreds of millions of protein molecules of the Ninth
Configuration. But, given the size of the planet Earth, do you know
how long it would take for just one of these protein molecules to
appear by chance? Roughly 10 to the 243rd power, billions of years;
and I find that far, far more fantastic than simply believing in a
god.

- William Peter Blatty, "The Ninth Configuration (movie)


Here’s the site - http://www.quoteland.com/

On Jan 5, 5:18 pm, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 5, 5:07 pm, Wes <wesleyk...

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro...

[Anselm Kersten]

On Thursday, January 6, 2011 1:14:52 AM UTC, thea wrote:

 

<snip>

Like I have said before - HE, God, is making Himself known to you and
you are so busy kicking and screaming for the exit - that it is all your
fault you have not seen HIM. 

 

OK, that might be true for Neil. However, I'm an ex-fundie who spent a couple of decades kicking and screaming to STAY IN, believing that I believed what I've since realised to be obvious BS, praying earnestly for faith, tortured by periods of doubt and praying twice as hard to overcome it - before I learned to stop being tortured, just "doubted" and followed where that led. It led to atheism, a perfectly logical outcome in which I recognise that religion and all its manifestations is a purely human phenomenon that involves people conning themselves into believing something that patently isn't true.

 

Now Thea, how do you explain the LORD's failure to "be found of me" when I "searched for him with all my heart?" You'll have your explanation (and it used to be mine, remember) - but I'll tell you now, it will involve one of two things: circular reasoning, in which you assume what you actually need to prove, or arbitrary redefinitions of terms to make my efforts inadequate no matter how genuinely and how hard I tried - sort of "heads you win tails I lose". Sounds great, but it's quite meaningless.

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 7, 1:59 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >Of course you're trying to convert me, and I'm trying to deconvert
>
> you. You can tell this because you're arguing your case for
> Christianity and I'm arguing my case for atheism.
>
> I guess i hope you’ll convert but I wasn’t arguing my case why I’m a
> Christian I was just showing you what their book says.

Which is making your case for Christianity, which is trying to show
that you are right, which is trying to convert me.

> I can’t hardly
> stand going to church (now I’m arguing why I’m not a Christian)

Just because you might not go to church does not mean you aren't a
Christian.

> but i used to love watching sermons and teachings on T.V., I’m just a guy
> who needs to figure it out because I’m unhappy with the way it is.

Figure what out? Unhappy with what?

> I showed you that their book says we are gods and never having a funeral
> is an option, but nobody preaches that.

I know for sure I am not a god, and I know I am not anatomically any
different from anyone else (more or less) so I know for sure other
people aren't gods either. So "their" book is wrong.

> Also if you listen to them
> they tell you to send all your money even after you run out so you
> become penniless and then they tell you to get a job you lazy bum.
> There’s millions of us trapped in an ungainful employment prison,
> which of these jobs do you want me to take?
> so I’m unhappy and this is
> my way of doing something about it.

I'm not convinced that believing a magic invisible man is going to
make it all better is a very good solution to your problem. And I
don't have your problem, I'm not unhappy, so I have no reason to
intentionally deludd myself that God exists.

> Love your employee as yourself?

Why not? Isn't your employee your neighbour too?

While it is a bit simplistic I think the Golden Rule isn't a bad idea
(and it isn't a Christian idea, either).

> Some people go postal and some do school shootings but what i do is
> try to convert people to what I think is right.

So do I, so does most people I meet. It's just weird that most
Christians I talk to don't admit they are trying to convert me when
they so obviously are, which I find odd.

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 7, 2:22 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 6I have said, Ye are gods;
> >No, I'm not. I have no magic powers. Neither does any other human.
>
> Apparently I have magical powers, after my last post I started to
> check my email and this is the first one I checked. It’s from a weekly
> quote site and they never do this type, they usually do more
> philosophical quotes. So it’s the first one I checked and
> interestingly they used a lower case g for god, I’ve been using lower
> case god but they shouldn’t have. I think it’s a small miracle, but
> you must admit it’s a good coincidence.

Coincidences aren't magic. You don't have magic powers.

> Here’s the quote-
>
> In order for life to have appeared spontaneously on Earth, there first
> had to be hundreds of millions of protein molecules of the Ninth
> Configuration. But, given the size of the planet Earth, do you know
> how long it would take for just one of these protein molecules to
> appear by chance? Roughly 10 to the 243rd power, billions of years;
> and I find that far, far more fantastic than simply believing in a
> god.

Reality is fantastic (if that's reality), I agree!

> - William Peter Blatty, "The Ninth Configuration (movie)
>

> Here’s the site -http://www.quoteland.com/

[Simon Ewins]

On Friday, January 7, 2011 4:30:27 AM UTC-5, Wes wrote:

> Another robot checks in.

I bet I'm more open minded and rational than you.

The fact that you suggest a bet like that proves that I would win it.

[thea]

I discovered over the last 38 years of studying and from all I could read - included from almost all denominations, that
most of all, I became aware that it was some *man's* idea of Christianity that I was reading about.
When I took the Bible by itself, and started dissecting it like I would do a *frog in biology lab* I
found that there are parallel truths and perpendicular truths.
I discovered that, for me, to be a Christian, all I had to do is be the *thief next to Jesus on
the Cross.*  I could yelp, *Remember Me*.  That all of Christianity was tied in to believing
that God Existed, that Jesus paid the ransom price for all of humanity (taking the sin
of Adam to the Cross) and that all of our sins were paid for, past, present and not
yet committed.
I discovered that when I was willing to be *out in left field all by myself*, that over a
period of 15 years of studying, that I knew I had found the *Truth* I was searching
for when I realized that *God lives in the praises of His Saints* - and to receive all the
good things that HE can give us - is through *Praise to the Name of Jesus* that
brings answers to all my prayers.
In other words, after I discovered that there was *truth* to find.  I then asked God to show
me where the *power* was.  In other words, I have to have *power* in order to know
that God Exists.  Many believe that when you prove God through giving money to their
outfits because you will receive back more than you gave - yep - if you have written
songs or books and have money owed to you - you receive more than you've given.
Yep, if you are a pastor, priest, people give to you.  However, if you are like me
a rustin out piece of *whatever* sitting in a pew and getting all moldy from what you believe
to be the stupidity of sitting in a pew - then you discover that all you do is give out -
and never get back.
So - how does the average person get on the *feeding line* that the pastors and priests
are on.  Well, this is where I believe that life is a lot easier when we do things God's
way.  All God demands from us is that we acknowledge His Existence.  When we do
we receive blessings - our house sold in 10 days after we prayed and then started
Thanking Jesus for doing it. 

Why did you not get?  Where did you go to learn?  Did you stay in one denomination?
I found that all denominations, or seminaries have a little bit of the truth - but
none have *all of the truth*.  And, some denominations definitely do not teach
salvation correctly.  They believe that you have to do something for it.  And, in
so doing, negate what Jesus has for us.
We are being handed a *platter with all good things*, and our failure is to
not understand that it is not who, what, where, why, or when I have studied,
it is not ME - it is that God did something for me - and all I can do is accept
what HE Says -- believe that I EXIST!

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 7, 3:16 am, Anselm Kersten

<anselm.kersten.proofrea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, January 6, 2011 1:14:52 AM UTC, thea wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
> > Like I have said before - HE, God, is making Himself known to you and
> > you are so busy kicking and screaming for the exit - that it is all your
> > fault you have not seen HIM.  
>
> OK, that might be true for Neil.

It's not my fault that figments of thea's imagination can't make
themselves known to me. This is a tactic that I see theists use all
the time, to make it seem like there's something wrong with someone
when they can't communicate with magic invisible beings. Not a chance
I'm buying into that guilt.

> However, I'm an ex-fundie who spent a
> couple of decades kicking and screaming to STAY IN, believing that I
> believed what I've since realised to be obvious BS, praying earnestly for
> faith, tortured by periods of doubt and praying twice as hard to overcome it
> - before I learned to stop being tortured, just "doubted" and followed where
> that led. It led to atheism, a perfectly logical outcome in which I
> recognise that religion and all its manifestations is a purely human
> phenomenon that involves people conning themselves into believing something
> that patently isn't true.

Nice work, congratulations. I've been an atheists from the moment I
was told about God, but quitting the God Delusion seems more difficult
than quitting smoking.

[Wes]

> Just curious Wes. Why do you use a lower case 'g' in god?

If you go here you'll see there are several meanings to the word god,
(by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god - there are gods and then
there is the God. in this following verse it shows that the God was
first a god who was formed, he gained a following large enough to
place him in most high status. We saw this play out when Jesus lived
his life, it's still happening though, Jesus is becoming God little by
little. And it can't be stopped.

Isaiah 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have
chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he:
before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

You remember the Bible says that the devil said in his heart, "I will
be like the most high" see he tried and is trying to build his own
world but the main thing about him is he would rather be in charge
than be right, Jesus is,was, and, will be the one in charge at the end
of the day.

You can be my god if you want but if you start to treat me like a
diaper, getting rich off my sacrifice then discarding me I'll start my
own kingdom and your following will fail to take you God status.
you'll be just another devil claiming to be God.

On Jan 7, 4:34 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just curious Wes. Why do you use a lower case 'g' in god?
>

> On 2011-01-07 5:22 AM, "Wes" <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 6I have said, Ye are gods;
> >No, I'm not. I have no magic powers. Neither does any other human.
>
> Apparently I have magical powers, after my last post I started to
> check my email and this is the first one I checked. It’s from a weekly
> quote site and they never do this type, they usually do more
> philosophical quotes. So it’s the first one I checked and
> interestingly they used a lower case g for god, I’ve been using lower
> case god but they shouldn’t have. I think it’s a small miracle, but
> you must admit it’s a good coincidence.
>
> Here’s the quote-
>
> In order for life to have appeared spontaneously on Earth, there first
> had to be hundreds of millions of protein molecules of the Ninth
> Configuration. But, given the size of the planet Earth, do you know
> how long it would take for just one of these protein molecules to
> appear by chance? Roughly 10 to the 243rd power, billions of years;
> and I find that far, far more fantastic than simply believing in a
> god.
>
> - William Peter Blatty, "The Ninth Configuration (movie)
>

> Here’s the site -http://www.quoteland.com/

[Trance Gemini]

On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 7:22 AM, Wes <wesley...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Just curious Wes. Why do you use a lower case 'g' in god?

If you go here you'll see there are several meanings to the word god,
(by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god - there are gods and then
there is the God. in this following verse it shows that the God was
first a god who was formed, he gained a following large enough to
place him in most high status. We saw this play out when Jesus lived
his life, it's still happening though, Jesus is becoming God little by
little. And it can't be stopped.

Isaiah 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have
chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he:
before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

You remember the Bible says that the devil said in his heart, "I will
be like the most high" see he tried and is trying to build his own
world but the main thing about him is he would rather be in charge
than be right, Jesus is,was, and, will be the one in charge at the end
of the day.

You can be my god if you want but if you start to treat me like a
diaper, getting rich off my sacrifice then discarding me I'll start my
own kingdom and your following will fail to take you God status.
you'll be just another devil claiming to be God.

Very interesting take on it.

So you are a polytheist not a monotheist?

And, btw, I agree with your interpretation since that is exactly what the Bible actually says but I find that most Christians don't accept that.

I'm not sure why since it's pretty clearly stated.

One can't be a monotheist if one believes in multiple gods even if there is only one leading God.

--
Tweet: "#wikileaks #cablegate "We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." --Edward R. Murrow"

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."  ~Noam Chomsky

"Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government."  ~Lenny Bruce

[Wes]

there's song that comes to mind by TG Shepard, look it up and listen,
it goes ,"there's only one mona lisa - one leaning tower of pisa
http://www.burbler.com/tg-sheppard-only-one-you-lyrics.html" I
couldn't find the audio

Psalm 82:1
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the
gods.

there's more than one like the pres has cabinet members

gotta go battery's low


On Jan 8, 6:27 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 7:22 AM, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Just curious Wes. Why do you use a lower case 'g' in god?
>
> > If you go here you'll see there are several meanings to the word god,
> > (by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -

> >http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god- there are gods and then

> the government."  ~Lenny Bruce- Hide quoted text -

[Bob T.]

On Jan 8, 4:22 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Just curious Wes. Why do you use a lower case 'g' in god?
>

> If you go here you'll see there are several meanings to the word god,

> (by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god- there are gods and then
> there is the God.

Similarly, there are goblins and there are orcs.

- Bob T

> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro...- Hide quoted text -

[Wes]

> Similarly, there are goblins and there are orcs.

Right, from our standpoint gods (i think i mean angels when i say
gods) gods and/or angels are fictional and imaginary, but does't
necessarily mean they aren't real. The Matrix (the world) is upheld by
the immutability of the number system, which includes imaginary
numbers. Imaginary numbers are both real and imaginary at the same
time. i = the square root of a negative 1, square roots are found by
multiplying a number times itself in reverse. A neg. times a neg.
equals a pos. so imaginary numbers are impossible but they are real
because i squared equals plain old 1. Did I get everything right, it's
been awhile since I learned that? Another thing that's real but
imaginary at the same time is Santa Clause, he's practically real
real. Like Santa, Jesus and therefore gods and angels is real even if
he's imaginary. At one time Jesus was actually real real, but he's
more imaginary right now. I said before that his following is and will
continue to increase, eventually everything will be governed as Jesus
would have it even though he hasn't shown up yet. That's pretty real
for an imaginary guy.

On Jan 8, 7:48 am, "Bob T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote:
> On Jan 8, 4:22 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Just curious Wes. Why do you use a lower case 'g' in god?
>
> > If you go here you'll see there are several meanings to the word god,

> > (by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god-there are gods and then

[Wes]

Another thing that's very real yet imaginary is Lucifer, please go
here - http://www.bing.com/search?q=666+missing+seat&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC
- and see that he has a throne waiting for him. Like I just said
Jesus' kingdom will build itself even if he's the last one allowed in.
The Bible says seek ye first the kindom of God, My question to all the
people that have pushed me around is, "when did you get to heaven and
how come I can't join in the happiness?"

On Jan 8, 7:48 am, "Bob T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote:

> On Jan 8, 4:22 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Just curious Wes. Why do you use a lower case 'g' in god?
>
> > If you go here you'll see there are several meanings to the word god,

> > (by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god-there are gods and then

[Wes]

> The fact that you suggest a bet like that proves that I would win it.

Please clarify your reasoning, i don't get it

[Bob T.]

On Jan 9, 2:47 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Similarly, there are goblins and there are orcs.
>
> Right, from our standpoint gods (i think i mean angels when i say
> gods) gods and/or angels are fictional and imaginary, but does't
> necessarily mean they aren't real. The Matrix (the world) is upheld by
> the immutability of the number system, which includes imaginary
> numbers. Imaginary numbers are both real and imaginary at the same
> time. i = the square root of a negative 1, square roots are found by
> multiplying a number times itself in reverse. A neg. times a neg.
> equals a pos. so imaginary numbers are impossible but they are real
> because i squared equals plain old 1. Did I get everything right, it's
> been awhile since I learned that?

The words "real" and "imaginary" do not mean the same thing when they
are applied to numbers, any more than you can expect an elementary
particle with "charm" to seduce your wife.

> Another thing that's real but imaginary at the same time is Santa Clause, he's practically real real.

It doesn't matter how popular a fictional character is, he's still
fictional.

> Like Santa, Jesus and therefore gods and angels is real even if
> he's imaginary. At one time Jesus was actually real real, but he's
> more imaginary right now.

Not "imaginary" so much as "dead".

> I said before that his following is and will
> continue to increase, eventually everything will be governed as Jesus
> would have it even though he hasn't shown up yet. That's pretty real
> for an imaginary guy.

Have you followed the latest statistics? In another decade or two
there will be more Muslims than Christians in the world. Will that
make Allah less imaginary than Jesus?

- Bob T

>
> On Jan 8, 7:48 am, "Bob T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 8, 4:22 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Just curious Wes. Why do you use a lower case 'g' in god?
>
> > > If you go here you'll see there are several meanings to the word god,

> > > (by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god-thereare gods and then

[Bob T.]

On Jan 9, 3:03 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Another thing that's very real yet imaginary is Lucifer, please go

> here -http://www.bing.com/search?q=666+missing+seat&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=I...

> - and see that he has a throne waiting for him. Like I just said
> Jesus' kingdom will build itself even if he's the last one allowed in.
> The Bible says seek ye first the kindom of God, My question to all the
> people that have pushed me around is, "when did you get to heaven and
> how come I can't join in the happiness?"

Seat "666" - I hope you're joking, but I fear you're serious. Haven't
you gotten the memo? The actual "Number of the Beast" was 616, not
666.

- Bob T

[Mulhid Murtad]

crazy semantics!

--

[Anselm Kersten]

Mine was a Biblically literalist Presbyterian denomination that at least professed to be firmly Calvanist. We are all predestined to heaven or hell, according to this theology - there's nothing we can "do" about it. And yet we're each responsible for the choice we make for or against Christ, even though it's not actually a choice. Many sermons were preached in our church, many study sessions wer held about it, belief in the concept was confidently proclaimed, Calvin's quote about "this comfortable doctrine" was trotted out - but the circle was never actually squared, at least not in this world. (Just like contradictions, which were made out to be no contradicitons without actually being explained.) So I'm quite familiar with the whole "it's not what you do, it's what God does for you" lark.

 

But let me see if I understand you correctly. There are roughly two billion Christians in the world. Are you saying that all of them except those belonging to your denomination have got it wrong? Every Roman Catholic, every Orthodox Christian, every Anglican and Episcopalian, every Methodist...? This is the kind of bigger picture that finally made me realise the futility of religion. It only works if you assume. Step back and question or challenge your assumptions, and the religious delusion dissolves in the harsh glare of reality and common sense.

 

In this case, your god sent his son to earth as a revelation of the most important thing ever to have happened to each and every one of us: the offer of salvation from our sins, if only we'd accept it (well, actually we don't accept it because this god has already chosen us, but it feels to us as if we accept it... oh, hell, whatever....). Is this something that so many professing Christians could get wrong for 2,000 years? Has Christ's own church, his own body, been teaching them wrong? How could Christ have failed to ensure that his message was properly understood? Why did you have to go through everything you did for so long to discover your "truth"?

 

And moreover, you have still failed to question your basic assumption that God exists. Same question to you as to so many others: why are you a Christian at all? I'm assuming you were brought up in a culture whose religious background was Christian. Doesn't that tell you that you'd hardly turn out Muslim or Hindu? And the fact that you were born in a Christian era means that you wouldn't have become a worshipper of Isis and Osiris or Odin.  Your questioning only extended to the confines of your own limited experience, and the truth you've discovered is narrowly circumscribed as a result. It's not universal, as you pretend, because you haven't tackled the Big Picture, but only one detail of it.

[LL]

On Jan 5, 9:07 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
> despite her prayers I haven't seen anything. I did see a hummingbird
> on January 3rd in Canada, which might be considered a minor sort of
> miracle, but hummingbirds aren't God.

LL: I'm afraid you're not trying hard enough, Neil. You should
communicate with Thea more.


*****************************

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 9, 2:33 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jan 5, 9:07 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
> > despite her prayers I haven't seen anything. I did see a hummingbird
> > on January 3rd in Canada, which might be considered a minor sort of
> > miracle, but hummingbirds aren't God.
>
> LL: I'm afraid you're not trying hard enough, Neil.

She keeps trying to blame me too, but I don't see how God not coming
to visit me is my fault. After all, it was her "guarantee", not mine.

> You should communicate with Thea more.

I might have more luck communicating with a baked potato.

[thea]

Haw haw!
Thank you, Neal, I would never have thought about a baked potato - since
we also heard that we were half baked.
 

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 9, 4:06 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 5:21 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 2:33 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > On Jan 5, 9:07 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
> > > > despite her prayers I haven't seen anything. I did see a hummingbird
> > > > on January 3rd in Canada, which might be considered a minor sort of
> > > > miracle, but hummingbirds aren't God.
>
> > > LL: I'm afraid you're not trying hard enough, Neil.
> > She keeps trying to blame me too, but I don't see how God not coming
> > to visit me is my fault. After all, it was her "guarantee", not mine.
>
> > > You should communicate with Thea more.
>
> > I might have more luck communicating with a baked potato.
>
> Haw haw!
> Thank you, Neal,

Neil

> I would never have thought about a baked potato - since
> we also heard that we were half baked.

You think reptiles can talk, do you also think that potatoes can talk?

[thea]

And why would I think an inanimate object could talk?

 

[Medusa]

On Jan 9, 4:47 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Similarly, there are goblins and there are orcs.
>
> Right, from our standpoint gods (i think i mean angels when i say
> gods) gods and/or angels are fictional and imaginary, but does't
> necessarily mean they aren't real. The Matrix (the world) is upheld by
> the immutability of the number system, which includes imaginary
> numbers. Imaginary numbers are both real and imaginary at the same
> time. i = the square root of a negative 1, square roots are found by
> multiplying a number times itself in reverse. A neg. times a neg.
> equals a pos. so imaginary numbers are impossible but they are real
> because i squared equals plain old 1. Did I get everything right, it's
> been awhile since I learned that?

Ummm. . .math was never my best subject, but I think you have this all
wrong. We have scientists on this NG. so perhaps one of them can
explain where you are wrong. And calling the real world "the Matrix"
puts you into the category of science fiction, not real science.

> Another thing that's real but
> imaginary at the same time is Santa Clause, he's practically real
> real.

No, I hate to tell you this, but Santa Claus is a fictional character;
your parents or other adults in your life left those gifts for you on
Christmas morning.

> Like Santa, Jesus and therefore gods and angels is real even if
> he's imaginary.

Yes, Jesus, God, and the Holy Ghost were something else the adults
told you are real. But all are myths, like Zeus, Thor, and the rest
of the gods in human history.

>At one time Jesus was actually real real,

Maybe yes, but most likely no. There is no record of hlm outside the
Bible, and the Romans kept careful records of what happened in the
lands under their rule. Surely there would have been a Roman record
of a rebellion (as they supposedly saw it) in one of their provences.

>but he's
> more imaginary right now. I said before that his following is and will
> continue to increase, eventually everything will be governed as Jesus
> would have it even though he hasn't shown up yet. That's pretty real
> for an imaginary guy.

No, it isn't. Jesus said he'd be back within the lifetimes of some
who were listening to him speak.

Well, what happened? Nothing.

Medusa

>
> On Jan 8, 7:48 am, "Bob T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 8, 4:22 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Just curious Wes. Why do you use a lower case 'g' in god?
>
> > > If you go here you'll see there are several meanings to the word god,

> > > (by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god-thereare gods and then

[Answer_42]

On Jan 9, 6:18 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > The fact that you suggest a bet like that proves that I would win it.
>
> Please clarify your reasoning, i don't get it

Q.E.D.
___________________________________________
We are the products of editing, rather than of authorship.
-- George Wald

[Wes]

Bob T

>The words "real" and "imaginary" do not mean the same thing when they

>are applied to numbers.

The supernatural realm is mostly an imaginary concept, yet we can talk
about it as if it were real because it is. Same goes for imaginary
numbers.

>Not "imaginary" so much as "dead".

If that’s an admission that Jesus did exist please explain why I
shouldn’t mostly believe what the Bible says about him.

>Have you followed the latest statistics? In another decade or two
>there will be more Muslims than Christians in the world. Will that
>make Allah less imaginary than Jesus?

12Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is
come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he
hath but a short time. -
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=devil+come+down&searchtype=all&version1=9&spanbegin=1&spanend=73

I haven’t got my arms all the way around it but the devil is coming to
earth, he’s going to be known by 666, the muslims will know him as the
12th imam or their messiah, or Allah incarnate so yes Allah is going
to be less imaginary than jesus.

>Seat "666" - I hope you're joking, but I fear you're serious. Haven't
>you gotten the memo? The actual "Number of the Beast" was 616, not
>666.

No I did’nt get that memo, please explain.

> > > > (by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god-therearegods and then

[Wes]

I still don't get it, what's QED, please explain

[Christina Holm]

QUOTE: "You think reptiles can talk, do you also think that potatoes can talk?"

I'd say, it depends from what the bible teaches us ... LOL. Talking potatoes have the same degree of probability as talking snakes, or similar miracles of nature.
********************************************************************************

2011/1/10 Neil Kelsey <neil_m...@hotmail.com>

[Wes]

>calling the real world "the Matrix"
>puts you into the category of science fiction, not real science.

Everything is science fiction before it is accepted as fact. (And I
don’t believe in science … at all – that’s a joke to show that we are
believers I the same religion Science - tology)
The world could be a dream we all share which is what the Matrix was
trying to show us.

>But all are myths, like Zeus, Thor, and the rest
>of the gods in human history.

You’re being unfaithful to the God of sciece – tology, we know Jesus
was real and extrodinary because there’s a church that sprang up
around him, that’s more than a myth.

>Maybe yes, but most likely no. There is no record of hlm outside the
>Bible,

There is Josephus see here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus but
that is a pretty good point you make.

>Jesus said he'd be back within the lifetimes of some
>who were listening to him speak.

Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not
taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

I’d like an explaination about that also.

My girlfriend just told me it was 1-11-11 today, post your response at
11:11 and 11 seconds.

> > > > (by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god-therearegods and then

[Trance Gemini]

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 5:53 AM, Wes <wesley...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Bob T

>The words "real" and "imaginary" do not mean the same thing when they

>are applied to numbers.

The supernatural realm is mostly an imaginary concept, yet we can talk
about it as if it were real because it is. Same goes for imaginary
numbers.

Hi Wes,

I'm not a mathematician and I was hoping that Rupert would see and respond to this.

However, I will say that imaginary numbers aren't "imaginary" in the way that you appear to think they are. And it's for that reason that your argument fails.

" Similarly, imaginary numbers have essential concrete applications in a variety of scientific and related areas such as signal processing, control theory, electromagnetism, fluid dynamics, quantum mechanics, cartography, and vibration analysis."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_number

--

[Trance Gemini]

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Wes <wesley...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I still don't get it, what's QED, please explain

"Quod Erat Demonstratum". It means "demonstrated".

[Bob T.]

On Jan 11, 2:53 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Bob T
>
> >The words "real" and "imaginary" do not mean the same thing when they
> >are applied to numbers.
>
> The supernatural realm is mostly an imaginary concept, yet we can talk
> about it as if it were real because it is. Same goes for imaginary numbers.

No, Wes, the words have completely different meanings when applied to
numbers. Have you heard of the sub-atomic property called "charm"?
Even though it's the same word, sub-atomic particles with positive
charm are not better with the ladies.

>
> >Not "imaginary" so much as "dead".
>
> If that’s an admission that Jesus did exist please explain why I
> shouldn’t mostly believe what the Bible says about him.

Most people believe that a person named "Jesus" or "Yeshuah" lived,
preached, and died in the Middle East. That does not even slightly
imply that he walked on water or was resurrected.

>
> >Have you followed the latest statistics?  In another decade or two
> >there will be more Muslims than Christians in the world.  Will that
> >make Allah less imaginary than Jesus?
>
> 12Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is
> come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he

> hath but a short time. -http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=devil+come+down&searchtyp...

Quoting your book of mythology does not in any way convince me that
there is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet.

>
> I haven’t got my arms all the way around it but the devil is coming to
> earth, he’s going to be known by 666, the muslims will know him as the
> 12th imam or their messiah, or Allah incarnate so yes Allah is going
> to be less imaginary than jesus.

This is superstitious nonsense.

>
> >Seat "666" - I hope you're joking, but I fear you're serious.  Haven't
> >you gotten the memo?  The actual "Number of the Beast" was 616, not >666.
>
> No I did’nt get that memo, please explain.

I'm going to teach you something useful, Wes:

Step 1) Connect to the Internet
Step 2) Bring up Wikipedia
Step 3) Type "Number of the Beast" in the search box
Step 4) Read a short summary of the subject

Then you, too, will know about the two different Numbers of the
Beast.

> > > > > (by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god-therearegodsand then

[Bob T.]

On Jan 11, 2:58 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I still don't get it, what's QED, please explain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.E.D.

- Bob T

>
> On Jan 10, 1:13 pm, Answer_42 <ipu.belie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 6:18 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > The fact that you suggest a bet like that proves that I would win it.
>
> > > Please clarify your reasoning, i don't get it
>
> > Q.E.D.
> > ___________________________________________
> > We are the products of editing, rather than of authorship.

> > -- George Wald- Hide quoted text -

[Bob T.]

On Jan 11, 3:25 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >calling the real world "the Matrix"
> >puts you into the category of science fiction, not real science.
>
> Everything is science fiction before it is accepted as fact. (And I
> don’t believe in science … at all – that’s a joke to show that we are
> believers I the same religion Science - tology)

> The world could be a dream we all share which is what the Matrix was trying to show us.

No, the purpose of The Matrix was to sell movie tickets and entertain
people. It's fiction.

>
> >But all are myths, like Zeus, Thor, and the rest
> >of the gods in human history.
>
> You’re being unfaithful to the God of sciece – tology, we know Jesus
> was real and extrodinary because there’s a church that sprang up
> around him, that’s more than a myth.

You are a remarkably gullible person.

- Bob T

> > > > > (by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god-therearegodsand then

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 10, 7:52 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 4:06 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 5:21 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com
> > >wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 2:33 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Jan 5, 9:07 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
> > > > > > despite her prayers I haven't seen anything. I did see a
> > hummingbird
> > > > > > on January 3rd in Canada, which might be considered a minor sort of
> > > > > > miracle, but hummingbirds aren't God.
>
> > > > > LL: I'm afraid you're not trying hard enough, Neil.
> > > > She keeps trying to blame me too, but I don't see how God not coming
> > > > to visit me is my fault. After all, it was her "guarantee", not mine.
>
> > > > > You should communicate with Thea more.
>
> > > > I might have more luck communicating with a baked potato.
>
> > > Haw haw!
> > > Thank you, Neal,
>
> > Neil
>
> > > I would never have thought about a baked potato - since
> > > we also heard that we were half baked.
>
> > You think reptiles can talk, do you also think that potatoes can talk?
>
> And why would I think an inanimate object could talk?

Potatoes are alive - they are a type of plant. So now that you know
this, do you think that potatoes can talk? Do you think that they used
to be able to talk in the Garden of Eden?

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 11, 3:08 am, Christina Holm <christinaholm2...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> QUOTE: "You think reptiles can talk, do you also think that potatoes can
> talk?"
>
> I'd say, it depends from what the bible teaches us ... LOL. Talking potatoes
> have the same degree of probability as talking snakes, or similar miracles
> of nature.

It's a good thing for Religion Inc. that they don't ask themselves
these questions

> ***************************************************************************­*****
>
> 2011/1/10 Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>

> > atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit­y%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

> > For more options, visit this group at

> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

[JTB]

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 3:53 AM, Wes <wesley...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Bob T

>The words "real" and "imaginary" do not mean the same thing when they

>are applied to numbers.

The supernatural realm is mostly an imaginary concept, yet we can talk
about it as if it were real because it is. Same goes for imaginary
numbers.

>Not "imaginary" so much as "dead".

If that’s an admission that Jesus did exist please explain why I
shouldn’t mostly believe what the Bible says about him.

>Have you followed the latest statistics?  In another decade or two
>there will be more Muslims than Christians in the world.  Will that
>make Allah less imaginary than Jesus?

12Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is
come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he
hath but a short time. -
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=devil+come+down&searchtype=all&version1=9&spanbegin=1&spanend=73

I haven’t got my arms all the way around it but the devil is coming to
earth

Why would you want to put your arms all the way around the devil? Won't he maybe get the wrong idea?
 

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com.

[thea]

Potatoes can not get out of the ground by themselves.  There are not alive
like we people are alive.
This is the place where in English we do not have verbs that distinguish
between, we animals being alive, and that tree outside my window being
alive.
My life is a being with a soul and a spirit, and the dividing asunder of both.
 

[thea]

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 11, 3:26 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

Okay, so then do you think that hazelnuts can talk? They are plants
just like potatoes, but they can "get out of the ground by
themselves". Do you think that hazelnuts used to have conversations
with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden?

> There are not alive
> like we people are alive.

Yes, they are. They are born, they live, they reproduce, and they
die.

> This is the place where in English we do not have verbs that distinguish
> between, we animals being alive, and that tree outside my window being
> alive.

That's because there is no difference. Life is life - an object is
either alive or it isn't.

> My life is a being with a soul and a spirit, and the dividing asunder of
> both.

Figments of your imagination do not mean that life means something
different for a plant than it does for an animal.

[thea]

And you are pointing out what has happened to our knowledge in the last 50 years.
50 years ago, human beings were distinctively different *alive* and the distinctions
were noted. 
Today, since we have accepted Psychology as being true - and everything is
*alive* - we are now living in the age of the *grand master lie*.
 

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 12, 5:19 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

No, they weren't. 50 years ago you were as confused about science as
you still are today.

> Today, since we have accepted Psychology as being true - and everything is
> *alive* - we are now living in the age of the *grand master lie*.

Psychology has nothing to do with whether or not plants are just as
alive as animals. You are living in the age of grand master ignorance.

[thea]

When Psychology came on the scene - and I believe one day we will understand
the brainwashing we have received - everything changed.  The verbiage of who you
are changed.
You are a smart guy, who is determined that what you believe is the only way to
believe.
The problem with us, is that in the language called English - we don't have
enough ways to discuss *Life* and what it means for an inanimate object
and what it means for a human being.



 

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 12, 7:23 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

The definition of what is alive and what is not did not change.

> The verbiage of who
> you
> are changed.

My physical existence is not dependent upon verbiage, and neither is
the existence of plants.

> You are a smart guy, who is determined that what you believe is the only way
> to believe.
> The problem with us, is that in the language called English - we don't have
> enough ways to discuss *Life* and what it means for an inanimate object
> and what it means for a human being.

The problem with you is that you don't understand what "animate" means
- it means "infused with life". It does not mean "able to move
around". You are confused by English, not me.

[LL]

On Jan 5, 9:36 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, January 5, 2011 12:07:35 PM UTC-5, Neil Kelsey wrote:
>
> > Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
> > despite her prayers I haven't seen anything. I did see a hummingbird
> > on January 3rd in Canada, which might be considered a minor sort of
> > miracle, but hummingbirds aren't God.
>

> They may be.
>
> 1) If God answers to no one then no one can prove that anything or anyone is
> not God.
> 2) If no one can prove that anything or anyone is not God then anything or
> anyone may be God.
> 3) If anything or anyone may be God this makes "God" meaningless.
>
> But Hummingbirds would be an excellent choice.

LL: Especially since they don't proselytize and mind their own
business.

**********************************************
>
> ;)

[thea]

Atheism versus Christianity - I think this forum is called.
Ain't it interesting how the natives (Atheist) don't like to hear about how
great a God the Christians have?
 

[LL]

On Jan 13, 4:30 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 12:35 PM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 5, 9:36 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, January 5, 2011 12:07:35 PM UTC-5, Neil Kelsey wrote:
>
> > > > Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
> > > > despite her prayers I haven't seen anything. I did see a hummingbird
> > > > on January 3rd in Canada, which might be considered a minor sort of
> > > > miracle, but hummingbirds aren't God.
>
> > > They may be.
>
> > > 1) If God answers to no one then no one can prove that anything or anyone
> > is
> > > not God.
> > > 2) If no one can prove that anything or anyone is not God then anything
> > or
> > > anyone may be God.
> > > 3) If anything or anyone may be God this makes "God" meaningless.
>
> > > But Hummingbirds would be an excellent choice.
>
> > LL: Especially since they don't proselytize and mind their own
> > business.
>
> > **********************************************
>
> > > ;)
>
> Atheism versus Christianity - I think this forum is called.
> Ain't it interesting how the natives (Atheist) don't like to hear about how
> great a God the Christians have?

LL: We've heard all about it, over and over and over again. It's not
that we have a problem hearing about it. We have a problem being
inundated with it. You can find it on every street corner, radio
stations, television stations, newspapers, etc., etc., etc. It has
become like the worst advertising messages ever devised. It is now a
part of background noise--or more like a mosquito buzzing in your ear.
The only thing we can do is try to ignore it.

*****************************************

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit y%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

[Wes]

Bob T.

There was an episode on Southpark where they got so full of themselves
they started to love smelling their own farts, that picture is what
comes to mind when I read your posts. If I'm too far beneath you then
please don't talk to me. I siad earlier that I'm just a guy trying to
figure it out because I'm unhappy, so wait for me to catch up. I think
there are 2 or 3 billion Christians on the planet and only a handful
of Atheists, so when I do my figuring i'm gonna have to give them some
ear.

[Wes]

When I said I didn't have my arms all the way around it I meant that I
didn't completely understand the subject.

On Jan 11, 12:27 pm, JTB <jel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 3:53 AM, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Bob T
>
> > >The words "real" and "imaginary" do not mean the same thing when they
> > >are applied to numbers.
>
> > The supernatural realm is mostly an imaginary concept, yet we can talk
> > about it as if it were real because it is. Same goes for imaginary
> > numbers.
>
> > >Not "imaginary" so much as "dead".
>
> > If that’s an admission that Jesus did exist please explain why I
> > shouldn’t mostly believe what the Bible says about him.
>
> > >Have you followed the latest statistics?  In another decade or two
> > >there will be more Muslims than Christians in the world.  Will that
> > >make Allah less imaginary than Jesus?
>
> > 12Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is
> > come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he
> > hath but a short time. -
>

> >http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=devil+come+down&searchtyp...

> > atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com<atheism-vs-christianit­y%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

> > For more options, visit this group at

> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

[Wes]

In the book of Numbers there's a story about a talking donkey, and
Peter referred to it in his book.

28 Then the LORD opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam,
“What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?”
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+22&version=NIV

16But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's
voice forbad the madness of the prophet. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2
Peter+2:15-17&version=KJV

Please go here there's a video of a talking bird http://victorthebudgie.com/
and here http://www.bing.com/search?q=victor+talking+budgee&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC

> around". You are confused by English, not me.- Hide quoted text -

[Neil Kelsey]

On Jan 14, 5:35 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In the book of Numbers there's a story about a talking donkey, and
> Peter referred to it in his book.

That's one more reason to be an atheist, because donkeys can't talk.

> 28 Then the LORD opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam,
> “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?”http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+22&version=NIV
>
> 16But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's

> voice forbad the madness of the prophet.http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2

> Peter+2:15-17&version=KJV
>
> Please go here there's a video of a talking birdhttp://victorthebudgie.com/

> and herehttp://www.bing.com/search?q=victor+talking+budgee&src=IE-SearchBox&F...

Satan didn't disguise himself as a parrot.

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Bob T.]

On Jan 14, 5:04 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Bob T.
>
> There was an episode on Southpark where they got so full of themselves
> they started to love smelling their own farts, that picture is what
> comes to mind when I read your posts. If I'm too far beneath you then
> please don't talk to me.

Look, Wes, if you're going to make claims like "You’re being

unfaithful to the God of sciece – tology, we know Jesus was real and
extrodinary because there’s a church that sprang up around him, that’s

more than a myth." in a discussion group, you just have expect
somebody to point out what a silly claim it is. There is no "God" of
science, and "science-tology" is a made up word the expresses
unwarranted disrespect for the scientific method.

> I siad earlier that I'm just a guy trying to
> figure it out because I'm unhappy, so wait for me to catch up. I think
> there are 2 or 3 billion Christians on the planet and only a handful
> of Atheists, so when I do my figuring i'm gonna have to give them some ear.

In a couple of decades there are going to be more Muslims than
Christians on this planet. Will you change faiths at that time?

- Bob T

[LL]

On Jan 14, 5:04 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Bob T.
>
> There was an episode on Southpark where they got so full of themselves
> they started to love smelling their own farts, that picture is what
> comes to mind when I read your posts. If I'm too far beneath you then
> please don't talk to me. I siad earlier that I'm just a guy trying to
> figure it out because I'm unhappy, so wait for me to catch up. I think
> there are 2 or 3 billion Christians on the planet and only a handful
> of Atheists, so when I do my figuring i'm gonna have to give them some
> ear.

LL: That's a fallacy called Argumentum ad popularum. In other words,
it doesn't matter how many people think a particular argument or
position is correct, it has no bearing on the truth. At one time
nearly everyone on earth thought the sun revolved around the earth.
The fact that nearly everyone thought that way had no bearing on the
fact that the earth actually revolves around the sun. People were
killed for accepting that idea. If you want to know anything, forget
about how many people embrace the idea. Instead, analyze the idea
rationally.

***********************

[thea]

On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 9:31 PM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:

On Jan 14, 5:04 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Bob T.
>
> There was an episode on Southpark where they got so full of themselves
> they started to love smelling their own farts, that picture is what
> comes to mind when I read your posts. If I'm too far beneath you then
> please don't talk to me. I siad earlier that I'm just a guy trying to
> figure it out because I'm unhappy, so wait for me to catch up. I think
> there are 2 or 3 billion Christians on the planet and only a handful
> of Atheists, so when I do my figuring i'm gonna have to give them some
> ear.


LL: That's a fallacy called Argumentum ad popularum. In other words,
it doesn't matter how many people think a particular argument or
position is correct, it has no bearing on the truth.

This sounds interesting, especially as a Christian, and understanding that
today (since we are in Revelation 3 - the Laodicean church age) we have
so many different ways that we can supposedly find God.
And just because everyone is jumping on some guys bandwagon and
believing what he says - because it sounds good - doesn't mean
that he is right either.
The only way to know the Truth, is to ask God to show you the Truth,
and be willing to pay the price.  It costs you the willingness to be
*out in left field all by your lonesome* if need be.



 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com.

[LL]

On Jan 15, 3:21 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 9:31 PM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 14, 5:04 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Bob T.
>
> > > There was an episode on Southpark where they got so full of themselves
> > > they started to love smelling their own farts, that picture is what
> > > comes to mind when I read your posts. If I'm too far beneath you then
> > > please don't talk to me. I siad earlier that I'm just a guy trying to
> > > figure it out because I'm unhappy, so wait for me to catch up. I think
> > > there are 2 or 3 billion Christians on the planet and only a handful
> > > of Atheists, so when I do my figuring i'm gonna have to give them some
> > > ear.
>
> > LL: That's a fallacy called Argumentum ad popularum. In other words,
> > it doesn't matter how many people think a particular argument or
> > position is correct, it has no bearing on the truth.
>
> This sounds interesting, especially as a Christian, and understanding that
> today (since we are in Revelation 3 - the Laodicean church age) we have
> so many different ways that we can supposedly find God.
> And just because everyone is jumping on some guys bandwagon and
> believing what he says - because it sounds good - doesn't mean
> that he is right either.
> The only way to know the Truth, is to ask God to show you the Truth,
> and be willing to pay the price.  It costs you the willingness to be
> *out in left field all by your lonesome* if need be.

LL: So the way to know whether god exists is to ask god? Do you really
think that makes sense? Maybe you should ask Allah, or Odin, or
Olympus or Zeus. Ask them for the truth.

**************************************************

> ...
>
> read more »

[Wes]

Bob T.

If God does exist he knows what we know before we know it. Science is
basically what we know and Science says that Muhomed and Jesus did
exist therefore i must have some questions about these charactors. I'm
not going to become a muslim because they seem to love violence and
they convert you with sword, but I do happen to believe that Jesus is/
was mostly like what the Bible says about him. The Bible started being
written when the Jews came out of Egypt, and I can see that Israel
does exist therefore I believe the bible is an archeological authority
as well as the religiuos stuff. Israel does exist, I must come to some
conclusion.

[Wes]

Science is true, but science is continually being adjusted. God and
Science are virtually the same I think, the question is what does
science say? I say it says that Jesus was very much like what the
Bible says, but we dom have to continue hashing it out untill everyone
is convinced. Then Science will have spoken - Thus saith Science ???

[thea]

You want to know that God exists.  Do what Malachi says in Chapter 3:10.
If you expect to have blessing and more - you will get it.
If is up to you to experience personally that there is a God in Heaven
who says, *if you do this* - *I will give you that* and it works, if you
work it.
 

--

[Simon Ewins]

On Saturday, January 15, 2011 7:01:47 PM UTC-5, thea wrote:

On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:32 PM, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:

Then tell your God that what you would like is an immediate end to the deaths from starvation of children everywhere.

I'll watch the papers for news for the next few days.

[LL]

On Jan 15, 1:57 pm, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Science is true, but science is continually being adjusted. God and
> Science are virtually the same I think, the question is what does
> science say? I say it says that Jesus was very much like what the
> Bible says

LL: Please show us where "science" says that. As far as I know science
doesn't say anything about religion.

************************************

> ...
>
> read more »

[LL]

LL: If you want people to think you know what you're talking about and
that you're rational in your thinking, you'll have to stop trying to
prove that the bible is true by using the bible. The Koran "proves"
the Koran is true, too, so do you believe in Islam? The "Book of
Mormon" proves the Mormon religion is true. Are you ready to claim
you're a Mormon? The Torah "proves" that Judaism is true. Are you
ready to be a Jew?

*************************

> ...
>
> read more »

[thea]

Jesus said in Matthew 26:11 *For ye have the poor always with you,...*
In other words, there will always be *poor people, who need help, who don't have
enough to eat, etc.*
I read a story years ago now about a young preacher's wife who didn't have
enough food in the house for their next meal.
She and her husband prayed for food, and while they were praying an
evangelist came by and gave them a bag of food.
While telling the evangelist that he was an answer to their prayer,
the evangelist said,
*You can keep your refrigerator full,  if,  every time you go past it, you
Thank Jesus for Keeping it full.*
The pastor's wife was telling how every time she went past that
refrigerator, she would Thank Jesus for keeping it full.
And full to overflowing it was.
This is one of those secrets that most people never hear or learn
that they can use.  Thank Jesus for food - and HE supply's you
will Manna from heaven.

There are many secrets in the Bible that are hidden from view until
you learn how to read it.  And, when you put the Bible into practice
in your own life, you find that sometimes it takes a month of two
until you get to the place when you can do something all the time.
It is easy to do something once, and then here comes Satan sitting
on your shoulder telling you, *you're stupid, that won't work.*
But, if you keep doing it - Praising the Name of Jesus, you find
that HE fulfills the longings of your heart.
My brother kept a journal when he was in college to see if
his prayers were getting answered.  Most of the time he received
something far better than what he had asked for.

 

[Wes]

Scholars … have variously argued that the gospel accounts of the
baptism of Jesus, his preaching, and the crucifixion of Jesus, are
generally deemed to be historically authentic, while the two accounts
of the nativity of Jesus, as well as certain details about the
crucifixion and the resurrection, are generally deemed to be non-
authentic.

See here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jan 5, 12:36 pm, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, January 5, 2011 12:07:35 PM UTC-5, Neil Kelsey wrote:
>
> > Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
> > despite her prayers I haven't seen anything. I did see a hummingbird
> > on January 3rd in Canada, which might be considered a minor sort of
> > miracle, but hummingbirds aren't God.
>

> They may be.
>
> 1) If God answers to no one then no one can prove that anything or anyone is
> not God.
> 2) If no one can prove that anything or anyone is not God then anything or
> anyone may be God.
> 3) If anything or anyone may be God this makes "God" meaningless.
>
> But Hummingbirds would be an excellent choice.

> ;)

A prankster joined parts of different dead bugs together and asked
Darwin to identify it. Darwin identified it as a humbug.

[Wes]

> You can be my god if you want but if you start to treat me like a
> diaper, getting rich off my sacrifice then discarding me I'll start my
> own kingdom and your following will fail to take you God status.

Nobody took me up on it so I'll suggest it again, Wanna be my god?

Isaiah 9:7
Of the increase of {your} government and peace there shall be no end,
upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to
establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for
ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

On Jan 8, 6:22 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Just curious Wes. Why do you use a lower case 'g' in god?
>
> If you go here you'll see there are several meanings to the word god,

> (by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god- there are gods and then
> there is the God. in this following verse it shows that the God was

> > how long it would take for just one of these protein molecules to
> > appear by chance? Roughly 10 to the 243rd power, billions of years;
> > and I find that far, far more fantastic than simply believing in a
> > god.
>
> > - William Peter Blatty, "The Ninth Configuration (movie)
>
> > Here’s the site -http://www.quoteland.com/
>
> > On Jan 5, 5:18 pm, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>

> > > On Jan 5, 5:07 pm, Wes <wesleyk...

> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>

> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro...- Hide quoted text -

[Brock]

On Jan 5, 12:07 pm, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thea "guaranteed" that God would "make himself known to me", and
> despite her prayers I haven't seen anything.

Not true:

http://bible.cc

Regards,

Brock

[Wes]

Wanna be my god or perhaps you'll let me be your's for awhile?

Isaiah 43:10
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have

chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he:

before me [you] there was no God formed, neither shall there be after
me [you]. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+43:10&version=KJV

On Jan 18, 7:24 pm, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > You can be my god if you want but if you start to treat me like a
> > diaper, getting rich off my sacrifice then discarding me I'll start my
> > own kingdom and your following will fail to take you God status.
>
> Nobody took me up on it so I'll suggest it again, Wanna be my god?
>
> Isaiah 9:7
> Of the increase of {your} government and peace there shall be no end,
> upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to
> establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for
> ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
>
> On Jan 8, 6:22 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Just curious Wes. Why do you use a lower case 'g' in god?
>
> > If you go here you'll see there are several meanings to the word god,

> > (by the way it's the Bible using a lower case g not me) -http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god-there are gods and then

[Observer]

On Jan 16, 3:02 pm, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Scholars … have variously argued that the gospel accounts of the
> baptism of Jesus, his preaching, and the crucifixion of Jesus, are
> generally deemed to be historically authentic, while the two accounts
> of the nativity of Jesus, as well as certain details about the
> crucifixion and the resurrection, are generally deemed to be non-
> authentic.

Observer
And what of this view ?

Quote

Jesus Has No History
1.1. No Primary Source (First-Person) Accounts of Jesus Exist

No historians of the time mention Jesus. Suetonius (65-135) does not.
Pliny the Younger only mentions Christians (Paulists) with no comment
of Jesus himself. Tacitus mentions a Jesus, but it is likely that
after a century of Christian preaching Tacitus was just reacting to
these rumours, or probably talking about one of the many other
Messiah's of the time. Josephus, a methodical, accurate and dedicated
historian of the time mentions John the Baptist, Herod, Pilate and
many aspects of Jewish life but does not mention Jesus. (The
Testimonium Flavianum has been shown to be a third century Christian
fraud). He once mentions a Jesus, but gives no information other than
that he is a brother of a James. Jesus was not an unusual name,
either. Justus, another Jewish historian who lived in Tiberias (near
Kapernaum, a place Jesus frequented) did not mention Jesus nor any of
his miracles. It is only in the evidence of later writers, writing
about earlier times, that we find a Jesus. What is more surprising
(Jesus could simply have been unknown to local historians) is that
academics note that the gospels themselves do not allude to first-hand
historical sources, either!

End quote

If you would refute it then provide verifiable substantiating data for
your claims of historicity as you stated above.

I am delighted that you find my offerings are unwanted here by such as
you .

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

Psychonomist

Could
>
> See here -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

> ...
>
> read more »

[Observer]

Observer

Or rather

http://www.evilbible.com/

Using your dim logic the above is evidence that the bible is evil and
it is therefor to believed that the bible is indeed EVIL.

Psychonomist




>
> Regards,
>
> Brock

[Wes]

> If you would refute it then provide verifiable substantiating data for
> your claims of historicity as you stated above.

Josephus writes of a Jewish sect led by James the Just, whom he calls
the brother of Jesus. Josephus' history includes sections on John the
Baptist, the High Priest Annas, Pontius Pilate, and Jesus called the
Messiah. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to
call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of
such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both
many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and
when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had
condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not
forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the
divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful
things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him
are not extinct at this day. - http://www.bede.org.uk/Josephus.htm

> I am delighted that you find my offerings are unwanted here by such as
> you .

Not true, let's have it out.

> Psychonomist

what's that mean

[Wes]

> Using your dim logic the above is evidence that the bible is evil and
> it is therefor to believed that the bible is indeed EVIL.

Parts of it are and should be filtered out and veiwed as obselete -
here Jesus adjusts a common misunderstanding of moses which is still
commonly missunderstood.

38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth
for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but
whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other
also. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5:37-39&version=KJV

Which parts are obselete? please answer that because dismissing the
bible wholesale does not work for me.

> > Brock- Hide quoted text -

[Answer_42]

On Feb 9, 2:57 am, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Using your dim logic the above is evidence that the bible is evil  and
> > it  is therefor to believed that the bible is indeed EVIL.
>
> Parts of it are and should be filtered out and veiwed as obselete -
> here Jesus adjusts a common misunderstanding of moses which is still
> commonly missunderstood.
>
> 38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth
> for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but
> whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other
> also.http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5:37-39&version=KJV

Yet, as we can read in some psalms:
"
Psalm 119:151-2
Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded
them for ever.

Psalm 119:160
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy
righteous judgments endureth for ever.
"

So those god inspired words are wrong?

And, in the NT:
"
Matthew 5:18-19
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass
from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break
one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be
called the least in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 16:17
It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the
law to fail.
"

Ain't the bible fun? We can use it to support whatever fancies our
imagination!
___________________________________________________
They put the Negroes in the schools, and now they've driven God out.
-- George Andrews

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jan 7, 9:16 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I found that all denominations, or seminaries have a little bit of the truth
> - but none have *all of the truth*.  And, some denominations definitely
> do not teach salvation correctly.  They believe that you have to do
> something for it.

Did Jesus always teach salvation correctly or did he sometimes teach
it wrongly?

> And, in so doing, negate what Jesus has for us.

What did Jesus say he has done for people?

[Wes]

1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and
his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and
to eat. 2But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold,
thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
3But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was
an hungred, and they that were with him; 4How he entered into the
house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him
to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the
priests? 5Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days
the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6But
I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

Jesus sort of broke the law.

the Bible does require some cherry picking but to me Jesus did exist
and came back from the dead and that's all there is to it.

[Bob T.]

On Feb 11, 5:00 pm, Wes <wesleykell...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>   1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and
> his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and
> to eat. 2But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold,
> thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
> 3But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was
> an hungred, and they that were with him; 4How he entered into the
> house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him
> to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the
> priests? 5Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days
> the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6But
> I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
>
> Jesus sort of broke the law.
>
> the Bible does require some cherry picking but to me Jesus did exist
> and came back from the dead and that's all there is to it.

Similarly, Thor exists and makes thunder & lightning with his mighty
hammer, and that's all there is to it.

- Bob T

> > -- George Andrews- Hide quoted text -

[Simon Ewins]

On Friday, February 11, 2011 8:00:54 PM UTC-5, Wes wrote:

 1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and
his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and
to eat. 2But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold,
thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
3But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was
an hungred, and they that were with him; 4How he entered into the
house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him
to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the
priests? 5Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days
the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6But
I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

Jesus sort of broke the law.

Not 'sort of', definitely.

Mark's version makes it worse for Jesus since the supposed son of a god made a mistake.

"And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?" [Mark 2:23-26]

If we turn to 1 Samuel 21:1-7 and read the story for ourselves we find that the high priest was Ahimelech not Abiathar.

You would think that a divinity could get his history right.

the Bible does require some cherry picking but to me Jesus did exist
and came back from the dead and that's all there is to it.

Some?
 

On Feb 10, 9:07 am, Answer_42 <ipu.be...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Wes]

> > > -- George Andrews- Hide quoted text -
>

> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Wes]

There are great big red apples all over the tree - you find a few
little cherries and try to claim the apple tree doesn't exist.
Whatever!

On Feb 12, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Wes]

please explain polystrate fossils to me - see here -
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0h&oq=poly&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS414US415&q=polystrate+fossils+pictures

On Feb 12, 7:49 am, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Simon Ewins]

On 17 February 2011 19:41, Wes <wesley...@hotmail.com> wrote:

There are great big red apples all over the tree - you find a few
little cherries and try to claim the apple tree doesn't exist.

It exists but it ain't perfect and it is supposed to be. Especially what the god-son itself is supposed to have said. You'd think it could get its facts straight.

 

Whatever!

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
To post to this group, send email to atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.

--
Musique.

http://www.facebook.com/simon.ewins
http://picasaweb.google.com/sjewins

http://reverbnation.com/simonewins

http://youtube.com/sjewins

[Wes]

> It exists but it ain't perfect and it is supposed to be. Especially what the
> god-son itself is supposed to have said. You'd think it could get its facts
> straight.

It does exist (Moses, King David, Solomon's temple, Jesus, Apostle
Paul) are all great big apples that did actually exist and make the
Bible believable. it would be nice if nobody could ever find any dents
but i'm not going to make that claim.


On Feb 17, 7:32 pm, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  <http://www.facebook.com/simon.ewins>http://reverbnation.com/simonewinshttp://youtube.com/sjewins- Hide quoted text -