Understanding Atheism

[Jesus is Your Creator]

Why do atheists ignore the fact that Jesus Christ died to take away
their sins, which means he lived, was buried, which means he died and
rose again, which means He lives and was seen by many eyewitnesses?
There is countless documentation of these occurances and HIs teachings
parallel Jewish teachings from thousands of years, all documented. If
there is proof Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again. What proof do
you have that God does not exist?

[Trance Gemini]

Welcome to AvC JIYC

On Aug 4, 11:18 am, Jesus is Your Creator <adedicatedwo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Why do atheists ignore the fact that Jesus Christ died to take away
> their sins,

As an atheist, I don't ignore it. I jjust don't believe it's true.

> which means he lived, was buried, which means he died

This is all possible.

> and
> rose again, which means He lives

This violates the Laws of Nature and is quite unlikely. Do you have
any verifiable evidence to support this claim?

> and was seen by many eyewitnesses?

Well we don't actually know that.

We know that some people wrote years later, that other people claimed
that they saw this.

That's hearsay and doesn't constitute verifiable evidence.

> There is countless documentation of these occurances and HIs teachings
> parallel Jewish teachings from thousands of years, all documented.

Where? Josephus only wrote that the Christus existed and that their
leader was crucified because he was considered a troublemaker. The
other items found in Josephus are considered forgeries even by
theologians.

And that's probably the most compelling account.

Even the Bible isn't consistent on Jesus rising from the dead. Only
one Apostle makes that claim. The others don't mention it.

And the Gospel of Judas indicates that Jesus asked Judas to betray him
mostly likely so that he could be a martyr.

> If
> there is proof Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again. What proof do
> you have that God does not exist?

There is no verifiable evidence that Jesus rose from the dead.

There is one claim by *one* apostle in the Bible that he did.

And I believe Paul (who didn't know Jesus) also supported that claim.

[Drafterman]

On Aug 4, 11:18 am, Jesus is Your Creator <adedicatedwo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Why do atheists ignore the fact that Jesus Christ died to take away
> their sins, which means he lived, was buried, which means he died and
> rose again, which means He lives and was seen by many eyewitnesses?

I don't accept that as a fact because I haven't been made aware of a
good reason to.

> There is countless documentation of these occurances and HIs teachings
> parallel Jewish teachings from thousands of years, all documented.

Actually, the amount of documentation is very countable: the few
references in the Bible. If these were enough, then why don't Jews
accept Jesus as their savior?

> If
> there is proof Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again. What proof do
> you have that God does not exist?

I find the problem of evil most compelling in this case.

[Bob T.]

On Aug 4, 8:18 am, Jesus is Your Creator <adedicatedwo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Why do atheists ignore the fact that Jesus Christ died to take away
> their sins, which means he lived, was buried, which means he died and
> rose again, which means He lives and was seen by many eyewitnesses?

Why do so many Christians ignore the fact that Thor is the God of
Thunder, which means that each bolt of lighting and each crack of
thunder is testimony to His mighty hammer?

> There is countless documentation of these occurances and HIs teachings
> parallel Jewish teachings from thousands of years, all documented.

Not as well documented as thunder and lightning!

> If there is proof Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again.

There is twice as much proof for Thor!

> What proof do you have that God does not exist?

What proof do you have that Thor does not exist?

- Bob T

[e_space]

why do you believe what was written by men thousands of years ago?

nobody has proof that "god" doesnt exist, just as you dont have proof
that "he" does ...

On Aug 4, 11:18 am, Jesus is Your Creator <adedicatedwo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Simon Ewins]

[Jesus is Your Creator]

> Why do atheists ignore the fact that Jesus Christ died

Insufficient evidence that he died.

> to take away
> their sins,

Too convoluted. There are easier ways.

> which means he lived,

Unlikely.

> was buried,

Unlikely.

> which means he died

Not demonstrated.

> and
> rose again,

Impossible.

> which means He lives and was seen by many eyewitnesses?

Being seen after a faked death and resurrection is not remarkable.

> There is countless documentation of these occurances and HIs teachings

All written by those exhibiting schizophrenic tendencies.

> parallel Jewish teachings from thousands of years, all documented. If
> there is proof Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again. What proof do
> you have that God does not exist?

His goofy believers.

--
"Only that in you which is me can hear what I'm saying." [Baba Ram Dass]

"The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys several times the same
good things for the first time."
[Nietzsche]

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 4, 8:18 am, Jesus is Your Creator <adedicatedwo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Why do atheists ignore the fact that Jesus Christ died to take away
> their sins, which means he lived, was buried, which means he died and
> rose again, which means He lives and was seen by many eyewitnesses?

Try this, and then tell me that eyewitness testimonials are
reliable. :

http://viscog.beckman.illinois.edu/grafs/demos/15.html

And then convince me that an account written decades after the event
allegedly took place by pre-scientific superstitious goat herders with
an agenda to force their religion upon non-believers is reliable.

Testimonials aren't scientifically valid evidence that an event
occurred.

> There is countless documentation of these occurances

There's also countless documents, including a court decree, that OJ
Simpson was innocent of murdering two people. So what?

> and HIs teachings parallel Jewish teachings from thousands of years, all documented. If
> there is proof Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again. What proof do
> you have that God does not exist?

Reality contradicts the Bible, for one. For example, adult men do not
give birth to adult women by the magic extraction of one of his ribs,
humans were not formed from dust - they evolved, stars and planets are
still being formed despite the fact that the Bible claims that God is
resting. The list is endless.

[dali_70]

On Aug 4, 11:18 am, Jesus is Your Creator <adedicatedwo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>snipped

Why do you ignore the Odin, Mithra, Ra, Zeus, Vishnu, the IPU or any
of the other "gods" that humanity has created over the centuries?
They're all old, they all have texts that their adherents say back up
their claims and many people over the ages have believed in them.

[Eris]

On Aug 4, 11:18 am, Jesus is Your Creator <adedicatedwo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> y\ou have that God does not exist?


Does your Zombie god eat brains?

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 4, 11:18 am, Jesus is Your Creator <adedicatedwo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Why do atheists ignore the fact that Jesus Christ died to take away
> their sins,

Did Jesus preach that he died to take away people's sins? If not, why
did Jesus ignore the fact that he died to take away people's sins?

> which means he lived, was buried, which means he died and
> rose again, which means He lives and was seen by many eyewitnesses?

Did he teach these many eyewitnesses that he died to take away
people's sins?

> There is countless documentation of these occurances and HIs teachings
> parallel Jewish teachings from thousands of years, all documented.

Do any of these countless pieces of documentation say that he preached
that he died to take away people's sins?

> If there is proof Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again.

If there is such proof, then all it tells us is that he died and rose
again. It doesn't tell us that he died to take away people's sins.

> What proof do you have that God does not exist?

Do you believe in all gods and goddesses? If not, what proof do you
have that they don't exist?

[Observer]

On Aug 4, 10:18 am, Jesus is Your Creator <adedicatedwo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Why do atheists ignore the fact that Jesus Christ died to take away
> their sins,

Observer
Because it is a lie !

which means he lived, was buried, which means he died and
> rose again,

Observer
He did not if you believe otherwise then just lay the proof on us.

Psychonomist

which means He lives and was seen by many eyewitnesses?

There is a difference between hearsay and eye witness.

> There is countless documentation of these occurances and HIs teachings
> parallel Jewish teachings from thousands of years, all documented.

Observer
There exists not one iota of proof for this wretched story.

If
> there is proof Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again. What proof do
> you have that God does not exist?

Observer
What is a god ? Not what do you think it did or can do but what
exactly id it ?

Negative proof is the failure to understand what it means to prove the
negative are you really that stupid?

Well you must be as you have failed to understand just what is
necessary for such as negative proof.


Psychonomist

[thea]

Psyc:  Can you prove the sun came up today - or is it only a figment
of your imagination that there is a sun?
And, can you prove that a tree actually exists, when it is only an
image that comes from your eyes to your brain?
Where do we get how to prove anything, when Psychology teaches
us in Psyc 101 that we know nothing?
 

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[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 7, 6:48 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you believe we know nothing why do you pretend to know that God
exists?

[Mystic Merman]

> Psyc:  Can you prove the sun came up today - or is it only a figment
> of your imagination that there is a sun?
> And, can you prove that a tree actually exists, when it is only an
> image that comes from your eyes to your brain?
> Where do we get how to prove anything, when Psychology teaches
> us in Psyc 101 that we know nothing?

Thea, reality is based on what we all share through our senses. If
you put any human being in front of the Eiffel Tower (provided they
are able to see or not insane), they will be able to see it. If
someone really believes it does not exist, then they should present
evidence showing why they believe this. Even a totally crazy person
on the street who is very hungry will see the sandwich I put in front
of him or her. The sandwich can be seen, tasted, smelled, felt, and
heard (as one bites into it). What purpose does it serve to assume
that our senses are just tricking us? Have you been listening to
Deepak Chopra?

[thea]

Not answering my questions -- you are asking me a question??
so sorry - answer my questions and I will answer your question.
 

[thea]

I understand what you are saying about reality being based on what we all share through
our senses.  This is why I am distressed at the fact that churches no longer what the
presence of the Holy Spirit in them, so people don't know what it is like to have
*God in them and with them* as was promised - the *Comforter, or the Holy Spirit's
down-payment* is a know-so salvation.

 

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 8, 9:53 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thea, don't be a hypocrite. You ignore everyone's questions all the
time.

My question *is* an answer to your question. See what happens when you
try to answer it.

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 8, 12:55 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 10:56 PM, Mystic Merman <mysticmer...@yahoo.com>wrote:
> > > Psyc:  Can you prove the sun came up today - or is it only a figment
> > > of your imagination that there is a sun?
> > > And, can you prove that a tree actually exists, when it is only an
> > > image that comes from your eyes to your brain?
> > > Where do we get how to prove anything, when Psychology teaches
> > > us in Psyc 101 that we know nothing?
>
> > Thea, reality is based on what we all share through our senses.  If
> > you put any human being in front of the Eiffel Tower (provided they
> > are able to see or not insane), they will be able to see it.  If
> > someone really believes it does not exist, then they should present
> > evidence showing why they believe this.  Even a totally crazy person
> > on the street who is very hungry will see the sandwich I put in front
> > of him or her.  The sandwich can be seen, tasted, smelled, felt, and
> > heard (as one bites into it).  What purpose does it serve to assume
> > that our senses are just tricking us?  Have you been listening to
> > Deepak Chopra?
>
> I understand what you are saying about reality being based on what we all
> share through our senses.  This is why I am distressed at the fact that
> churches no longer what the
> presence of the Holy Spirit in them,

Ironically, the people who claim the presence of God within them are
Hindus. God within oneself is called Antaryami in Sanskrit and Kadavul
in Tamil. Perhaps if the church won't help Christians sense God within
them, Christians can find Hindus of one of the right sects and ask how
to sense God within themselves:->

[thea]

Here we go 'round the mulberry bush again and again and again.
The problem is that philosophy 101 teaches that we know nothing.
The question is do we really exist or is this life all a figment of our imagination?
 

[thea]

The biggest problem with sensing the presence of God within - is given
in the Bible as when two or three are gathered together in the Name of Jesus -
HE (the Holy Spirit) is with them.  It is at this point that you can also know
if someone else is a Christian, because the Spirit will only witness as you
are talking about Jesus.
It is not something within yourself that you can sense all the time - Satan
comes and tries to get you to think you can - but it is only when you are
in company with others who know who Jesus Is, that the presence of the
Holy Spirit is felt.
That is why in a church service is you don't know the Holy Spirit is in
the service, it is because all the pastor can talk about is god.  And I
always ask - which god - the god of this present evil age better know
as Satan, or the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
It is necessary to sing praises to Jesus constantly - that is what
St. Paul tells us to do.

 

> so people don't know what it is like to have
> *God in them and with them* as was promised - the *Comforter, or the Holy
> Spirit's down-payment* is a know-so salvation.

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 8, 5:57 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

My point is that I don't think that is a sincere question, which I can
prove by asking you this question:

Do you know that God exists?

If you answer "yes," and I *know* that's your answer whether you dodge
the question or not, then *you* don't believe what you were taught in
your psychology 101 class. So if *you* don't believe that "we know
nothing," what difference does it make whether I answer your question
or not?

For the record, I'm not a solipsist - and I really, really dont' think
you are either (I'm also guessing you don't know what a solipsist is).
I think we can, and do, know lots of things. We know that the earth
orbits the sun. We know that evolution is fact. We know the Chicago
Blackhawks won the 2010 Stanley Cup.

Drafterman has a great formula:

Knowledge = Belief + Justification + Truth

In other words, knowledge has those three elements to it. Which is why
you don't really *know* that God exists because even though you
believe it, and your belief is justified by your childhood
indoctrination, but you have no valid evidence so you don't know if
it's true that God exists.

[Observer]

On Aug 7, 8:48 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

Obasever
When are you ever going to learn to argue intelligently?
When you have nothing to say you say it all here.
Are you that uneducated of just stupid?

Utility of Scientific Evidence

Philosophers, such as Karl R. Popper, have provided influential
theories of the scientific method within which scientific evidence
plays a central role[7]. In summary, Popper provides that a scientist
creatively develops a theory which may be falsified by testing the
theory against evidence or known facts. Popper’s theory presents an
asymmetry in that evidence can prove a theory wrong, by establishing
facts that are inconsistent with the theory. In contrast, evidence
cannot prove a theory correct because other evidence, yet to be
discovered, may exist that is inconsistent with the theory[8]. See
falsificationism for more on this view of scientific evidence.

Com on why remain a stupid old woman when a world of information
awaits you?

Ignorance is the base property of all humans but refusal to learn is
genuinely a criminal act.

If there were a god certainly it would honor the scholarly above the
indolent. Your self inflicted ignorance is a deadly sin and gets you
naught but the ignorance you display here. What gratification is there
in that?

Psychonomist

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[Observer]

addendum

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_proof


>
> Come on why remain a stupid old woman when a world of information

[Tell it like it is.]

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Every atheist agrees darkness exists.If according to
Christian teaching darkness is an abscence of light, how can darkness
exist, to Christians, except as an abscence of light. God we
Christians are told is unapproachaeble light. Indeed, God is the
source of light, and in him there is no darkness. Atheists believe
darkness exists.
An atheist will say when the sun sets, there is proof
darkness exists.
If darkness is an abscence of light does darkness exists?
To an atheist darkness exists.
To a Christian darkness is seen as an abscence of light.
To an atheist darkness exist by its own right.
Does God exist?

"God is dead."
- Nietzche
Nietzche is dead.
-God

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 14, 6:16 pm, "Tell it like it is."

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>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>               Every atheist agrees darkness exists.If according to
> Christian teaching darkness is an abscence of light, how can darkness
> exist, to Christians, except as an abscence of light. God we

> Christians are told is unapproachaeble light.Indeed, God is the

> source of light, and in him there is no darkness. Atheists believe
> darkness exists.

Atheists, I think I can safely say, believe that light exists too. We
just aren't in the habit of giving elementary particles like photons
supernatural names like "God" as you are.

>              An atheist will say when the sun sets, there is proof
> darkness exists.

I'd be more inclined to say that there is proof the the earth isn't
even the centre of the solar system, let alone the centre of the
universe like the authors of the Bible believed.

>              If darkness is an abscence of light does darkness exists?

Yes.

> To an atheist darkness exists.

To any sane being darkness exists. So does light.

> To a Christian darkness is seen as an abscence of light.

Same thing for any atheist with basic scientific knowledge.

> To an atheist darkness exist by its own right.

To any sensible atheist darkness is the absence of light.

> Does God exist?

There's no valid evidence that he does, and lots of scientific
evidence that the Bible is false. So I'd say "no," God does not exist.

>               "God is dead."

God would have to exist and be mortal to be capable of being dead.

>   -  Nietzche

> Nietzche is dead.

>  -God

God doesn't seem to understand irony. I thought he was supposed to be
omniintelligent.

[Jean Briscoe]

When the sun does not shine and the moon does not shine

His love will shine and be your light.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com.

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 8, 9:02 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is necessary to sing praises to Jesus constantly

Did Jesus ask anyone to sing praises to him constantly?

> - that is what St. Paul tells us to do.

In which verse does Paul ask his audiences to do this?

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 15, 10:30 pm, Jean Briscoe <briscoe.jea...@gmail.com> wrote:

> When the sun does not shine and the moon does not shine
> His love will shine and be your light.

Emotions do not shine, particularly the emotions of your non-existent
imaginary friends.

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>
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[Kilmir]

On 16 aug, 07:30, Jean Briscoe <briscoe.jea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> When the sun does not shine and the moon does not shine
> His love will shine and be your light.

Just making sure here, you do know the moon only reflects the sun's
light and doesn't shine by itself. Right?

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

The earth shines too.

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 4, 12:12 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Welcome to AvC JIYC
>
> On Aug 4, 11:18 am, Jesus is Your Creator <adedicatedwo...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> > Why do atheists ignore the fact that Jesus Christ died to take away
> > their sins,
>

> As an atheist, I don't ignore it. I jjust don't believe it's true.

>
> > which means he lived, was buried, which means he died
>

> This is all possible.

>
> > and
> > rose again, which means He lives
>

> This violates the Laws of Nature and is quite unlikely. Do you have
> any verifiable evidence to support this claim?

>
> > and was seen by many eyewitnesses?
>

> Well we don't actually know that.
>
> We know that some people wrote years later, that other people claimed
> that they saw this.
>
> That's hearsay and doesn't constitute verifiable evidence.

>
> > There is countless documentation of these occurances and HIs teachings
> > parallel Jewish teachings from thousands of years, all documented.
>

> Where? Josephus only wrote that the Christus existed and that their
> leader was crucified because he was considered a troublemaker. The
> other items found in Josephus are considered forgeries even by
> theologians.
>
> And that's probably the most compelling account.
>
> Even the Bible isn't consistent on Jesus rising from the dead. Only
> one Apostle makes that claim. The others don't mention it.
>
> And the Gospel of Judas indicates that Jesus asked Judas to betray him
> mostly likely so that he could be a martyr.

>
> > If
> > there is proof Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again. What proof do
> > you have that God does not exist?
>

> There is no verifiable evidence that Jesus rose from the dead.
>
> There is one claim by *one* apostle in the Bible that he did.

We don't know that the gospels were authored by apostles. Be that as
it may, more than one of the gospels claims that Jesus' tomb was
unoccupied (or had been vacated) on Easter Sunday.
>
> And I believe Paul (who didn't know Jesus) also supported that claim.

[Observer]

On Aug 8, 7:57 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are you decrying the ultimate stupidity of what is taught by
philosophers or trying to impress us that you may have taken
philosophy 101 in middle school?

Do you not yet understand that the entirety of your belief system and
mine are the product of fictions made to represent what appears to
exist extrinsically?

Surly you can not be so utterly stupid as to believe that you or
anyone can ingest the actualities of the universe and contain them in
their being?

Fictions , my poor stupid old woman are all that man can produce in
hopes that these can help him/her to deal with actualities.

Each has a philosophy of as if that that person hopes is close enough
to emulating reality so as not to get them torn apart by the world
around him/her .

When that crazy old man convinced you to be a Christian he took away
your birth right, the ability to exercise critical thought and to
understand scientific method and the role these must play in
structuring and living out your philosophy of as if.

His act was one of criminality.

Psychonomist

>
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