Sharia ensures freedoms and rights for all equally

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood’s Supreme Guide Mohammed Badie explained to
US Ambassador Anne Patterson that the principles of Islamic Sharia law
are the main source of legislation and the biggest guarantee of public
and private freedoms, as it ensures the freedom of belief, religion
and personal rights to all citizens equally.
http://bikyamasr.com/54187/muslim-brotherhood-to-us-ambassador-in-egypt-sharia-law-ensures-personal-freedoms/

[thea]

Except Freedom from Religion.  Note the *from*.   I do not believe in Sharia Law because
they do not believe in Freedom for the woman. 
And Sharia Law does not believe
in the God and Father of Abraham, Isaac and Israel - who sent His Only Son, Jesus,
to redeem us.
And, until they quit mutilating women - I think they have it wrong, wrong, and wrong again.
thea

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[Ian]

Sharia law is only against woman in countries like Saudi Arabia not in the UK for instance.     And why should they believe what you do Thea, both of then are fantasies.     -------Original Message-------

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jan 24, 12:15 pm, "Ian" <igbett...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Sharia law is only against woman in countries like Saudi Arabia not in the
> UK for instance.

This is a thought provoking proposition. How is Sharia law different
in the UK?

[LL]

On Jan 24, 6:58 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Except Freedom from Religion.  Note the *from*.   I do not believe in
> Sharia Law because
> they do not believe in Freedom for the woman

LL: Psst, Thea. Neither does the bible.

- Deuteronomy 22:13-21:
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,
And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name
upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found
her not a maid:
Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring
forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city
in the gate:
And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter
unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;
And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I
found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my
daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the
elders of the city.
And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give
them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil
name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not
put her away all his days.
But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found
for the damsel:
Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's
house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she
die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in
her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

- 1 Corinthians 7:10-11:
A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must
remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. NIV

- Ephesians 5:22-24:
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the
head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of
which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also
wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

- I Corinthians 11:8-9:
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was
the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

- 1 Tim 2:12:
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority to teach,
nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

- I Corinthians 11:6:
So if a woman does not cover her head, she should cut off her hair. If
it is a disgrace for a woman to cut off her hair or shave her head,
let her cover her own head. ISV

- Exodus 21:7:
If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free
as the male slaves do NASB


********.

> And Sharia Law does not believe
> in the God and Father of Abraham, Isaac and Israel - who sent His Only Son,
> Jesus,
> to redeem us.
> And, until they quit mutilating women - I think they have it wrong, wrong,
> and wrong again.
> thea
>

> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 1:01 AM, ranjit_math...@yahoo.com <

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood’s Supreme Guide Mohammed Badie explained to
> > US Ambassador Anne Patterson that the principles of Islamic Sharia law
> > are the main source of legislation and the biggest guarantee of public
> > and private freedoms, as it ensures the freedom of belief, religion
> > and personal rights to all citizens equally.
>

> >http://bikyamasr.com/54187/muslim-brotherhood-to-us-ambassador-in-egy...

[ynot]

On Jan 24, 7:15 pm, "Ian" <igbett...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Sharia law is only against woman in countries like Saudi Arabia not in the
> UK for instance.
>

Sharia law is based on the Quran and as such it is Allah's law. I did
not know that there was an Allah in Saudi Arabia and another one in
UK. You better brush off your knowledge about Islam before saying
things like that.

ynot

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

The UK already has state laws many of which are alternatives to laws
in the Sharia. If in the UK, state law were to take precedence in a
circumstance where there are two laws on a given issue (a state law
and a Sharia law), then Sharia law in the UK would be a subset of
Sharia law in the Koran and would address only issues with respect to
which there is no state law.

[thea]

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 2:37 PM, LL <llpen...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 24, 6:58 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Except Freedom from Religion.  Note the *from*.   I do not believe in
> Sharia Law because
> they do not believe in Freedom for the woman

LL: Psst, Thea. Neither does the bible.

Thanks, LL, I appreciate your thoughtfulness at giving the following.
However, the difference is that *women* were set free when Jesus was
born.  It should be noted that when talking about *his mother* Jesus
called her *woman*.  Now I know the commentaries all have something
to say about this -- but it directly corresponds to the time when God
gave the *promise* to the *woman* in Genesis 3:15 -- this was before
Adam named Eve, Eve, because he had yet to find out her attributes.

The OT was set aside -- Jesus said HE fulfilled all the law and the prophets.

In Proverbs 31:10- we see the portrait of a virtuous woman.
In Romans 1:16 we find that Salvation was to everyone who believeth;
to the Jew first and also to the Greek (or Gentile).

50 years of being a wife, I happen to like it.  And, it just gets better
with age.  Knowing that I am being *taken care of* is just fine with me.

thea


 

[LL]

On Jan 24, 4:17 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 2:37 PM, LL <llpens3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 24, 6:58 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Except Freedom from Religion.  Note the *from*.   I do not believe in
> > > Sharia Law because
> > > they do not believe in Freedom for the woman
>
> > LL: Psst, Thea. Neither does the bible.
>
> Thanks, LL, I appreciate your thoughtfulness at giving the following.
> However, the difference is that *women* were set free when Jesus was
> born.  It should be noted that when talking about *his mother* Jesus
> called her *woman*.  Now I know the commentaries all have something
> to say about this -- but it directly corresponds to the time when God
> gave the *promise* to the *woman* in Genesis 3:15 -- this was before
> Adam named Eve, Eve, because he had yet to find out her attributes.
>
> The OT was set aside -- Jesus said HE fulfilled all the law and the
> prophets.
>
> In Proverbs 31:10- we see the portrait of a virtuous woman.
> In Romans 1:16 we find that Salvation was to everyone who believeth;
> to the Jew first and also to the Greek (or Gentile).
>
> 50 years of being a wife, I happen to like it.  And, it just gets better
> with age.  Knowing that I am being *taken care of* is just fine with me.

LL. Thea, i'm glad you've had a happy marriage. Somehow I don't think
you would think it was so hsppy if your husband took the positions
commanded in the New Testament.

Some of the worst verses against women are in Corinthians. These were
the Christian
Paul's writings, not in the writings that were to become known as the
OT. Jesus never disavowed Paul's positions. He also never disavowed
the Torah or other Jewish writings. Jesus was a Jew, he lived as a Jew
and he died a Jew, following the Torah. He did not establish a new
religion, his followers did, and they saw women as inferior.
.......



.....

[Ian]

The Bible may I remind you was written 40 years after the events. Jesus has not therefore influenced the writers in the bible to respect  females only to suggest stoning top death,       -------Original Message-------

From: thea Date: 01/25/12 00:18:03 To: atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

Do you believe Jesus was alive to disavow Paul's positions?

[thea]

I am battling this idea of a woman has to be stupid stuff -- and it
ain't a grand experience when men have them chips so big on their
shoulders - going to hell in a hand basket must have a feel goody
feeling - because men think they are so grand.  I understand this.
I worked for over 40 years with bosses who thought theirs didn't .....
And was talked down to -- until I learned to speak up and back.
Then -- ah ha - they discovered that I wasn't a dumb chick and
started listening to my opinion -
Water under the bridge - as they say.

My walk with the Lord Jesus Christ started, I believe, when my
son was in a cradle at the foot of our bed.  I realized that it
was up to me to teach him about Jesus.  I had sat in Sunday school
classes with teachers who read something out of a book -- one
size fits all applies to Christianity -- uh oh -- I don't think so.
I asked God to show me the truth.  I was willing to pay the price
in keeping my nose in a book for years -- in fact my husband
will tell you that when we saw the movie *Yentel* (spelling)
that when Barbra had her nose in a book, and the fish she was
cooking was turning black - my husband turned to me in the theatre and
said - *that's you*.  I spouted back that I had never fed
him burnt offering -- and the guy in front of us laughed.

I believe that we can know God, because I have discovered the
secrets in the Bible.  I have read the commentaries from cover
to cover, and seen what some man says something means -
then watched as God worked miracles in my life and disproved
what I had been reading.

I have seen God work miracles -- much like the NT story
of the Apostle Paul, where men in prison have more of the
presence of the Holy Spirit - than you find in a church service
of prominent churches in your area.

I have seen God work and know HE does work.
I know that it doesn't happen like so many of these men *fellows*
think it does.  They think they are doing something with
*healing services* - and don't understand.
I have seen pastors get up and sing songs and sing and sing
and sing, and nothing happens.
I have seen other pastors who spent a day fasting and praying
before getting up to preach, and watched lives changed.

I wish there was a pastor around who was willing to pay the price
to *fast and pray* until the Lord came and made a physical
appearance so we in this day and age could see mighty miracles.

There was such a pastor I read about, who had the angels come
and talk with him, more than once.  He described how he knew
they were there before he could see them, because his
dog was looking up and down.  He was always lying down
when they came because they had weight to them.
The fact that they were of different sizes -- one taller than the
other -- the fact that they said the most fun they had
ever had was when they took the chariot wheels off the
Egyptian army that was going through to sea to get Israel.

I see this -- I want miracles in my life as a woman.
And, I have had the healing - happened in me, but not in
a church service.

I believe that anyone who is willing to *pay the price* to know
who Jesus Is, will find that they have miracles happen in their
life.

I also believe like a few women pastors I have read about, that
if a *man* *human male of this species* were willing to *pay the
price* that God would use the men.  But, when men are
not willing or cannot do what is necessary, God will use a woman.
Ruth in the Bible is an example of God using a woman.
Esther in the Bible is an example of God using a woman.

And the big deal -- God could not have sent His Son, Jesus, to earth
if HE had not had a *woman* who was willing to be used.
thea

[Eric Griswold, R.C.]

Thea,
I am puzzled by something. You say the OT was "set aside". But you
quote from the OT.
I hear this a lot---people will say that the OT was set aside by
Jesus, but then (for example) they will quote from Leviticus to say
that gay people are bad.

Can you explain this? If people believe that Jesus fulfilled the OT,
and the OT is set aside, why don't you have a bible that is only the
New Testament?

Some people make this even more confusing. They say that *some parts*
of the OT were set aside. For example, Jesus once said that what comes
out of a man's mouth is more important than what goes in.
Notice, he didn't say that what goes in is unimportant! But most
Christians interperet this to mean that they can eat pork, and
shellfish, and all the things that Jahweh and Moses commanded them
again and again *never* to eat.

I wish Christains would make a bible, and all the parts of the OT that
they don't believe in any more would be printed in red. But I think
each denomination would have it's own bible, with different parts
printed in red!

Do you see how this is confusing? Imagine, if you were talking to a
Marxist, and they said "After Lenin, the Communist Manifesto has been
set aside....well, SOME parts have been set aside... but people
disagree on exactly *which* parts have been set aside...." This would
make it hard to have a good discussion with the fellow.






On Jan 24, 6:17 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[LL]

On Jan 25, 5:36 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

LL. No, he wasn't and he didn't. That was my point. But we're talking
about the bible here--the claimed word of god, the book Christians use
to bash every non-christian they come across.

My point is that the bible is not the word of Jesus and Christianity
was not his religion, nor did he create it, despite what Christians
say. If Jesus were true god, as they claim, he would have known what
people would say about him and how they would attribute false doctrine
to him and create a religion that had nothing to do with his
teachings. That he didn't tells a lot about his godliness.

....

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Jan 25, 11:01 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

OTOH, if you say "a woman doesn't have to be stupid", it could be
unfortunately interpreted as:
A woman is stupid out of choice rather than necessity:-)

> and it
> ain't a grand experience when men have them chips so big on their
> shoulders - going to hell in a hand basket must have a feel goody
> feeling - because men think they are so grand.  I understand this.
> I worked for over 40 years with bosses who thought theirs didn't .....
> And was talked down to -- until I learned to speak up and back.
> Then -- ah ha - they discovered that I wasn't a dumb chick and
> started listening to my opinion -
> Water under the bridge - as they say.
>
> My walk with the Lord Jesus Christ started, I believe, when my
> son was in a cradle at the foot of our bed.  I realized that it
> was up to me to teach him about Jesus.  I had sat in Sunday school
> classes with teachers who read something out of a book -- one
> size fits all applies to Christianity -- uh oh -- I don't think so.
> I asked God to show me the truth.

Did God ask you not to read the Koran and book of Mormon to find the
truth about Jesus? If not, who asked you not to read these?

Why was God incapable of sending his son if no woman was willing to be
used? Couldn't God have fashioned his son from clay if there was no
woman willing to be used?

[LL]

On Jan 25, 1:42 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

LL. I'd like to know why he couldn't have fashioned Jesus the way he
did Adam with no woman or womb at all. He didn't even need clay, just
a little dust. Did he lose his magic touch?

....

[thea]

The Christian church has argued this and forever.  Some denominations
wish we were *barefoot and preg. just so we would be so busy, we couldn't
think for ourselves.*
However, since the church decided to give us the same education as a man,
if you were lucky enough to get into theology classes in college, we
finally knew what they were being taught - by other men, of course.

One of the things I have learned, is that God does not make differences
between who can be a Christian, and who HE is willing to work through.
Many a man has been side whipped, because of his affection for women
who are not his wife or wives.
Many a man has said things in a pulpit that put him in his place later.
And, when a man makes judgement calls from the pulpit and puts
any person, man or women in hell - they have made a mistake.
Because, God is not mocked and whatever a man sows that
will be reap.

The church loves to blame the woman for everything, and yet the
Apostle Paul says that the woman was fooled -- but the man
Adam, sinned with his eyes wide open.
thea

[thea]

Saint Paul says in Galatians 1:8-9 that we will be judged in this
Dispensation of the Grace of God (as Gentiles) by Saint Paul's Gospel.
So - since we learn of Grace from Saint Paul in Romans 10:9,
and our position from Saint Paul in Ephesians 1, and our
home going from Saint Paul in I Thessalonians 4:17,
I believe that the Apostle Paul is telling us what God wants and
needs for us to know today.

And, since the Holy Spirit witnesses to Saint Paul's gospel by sending
that *flash* of lightning that allows our brains to *light up* with a
hearty - *so that's what it says feeling*, I believe we are on the
right track.
thea


 

> He also never disavowed
> the Torah or other Jewish writings. Jesus was a Jew, he lived as a Jew
> and he died a Jew, following the Torah. He did not establish a new
> religion, his followers did, and they saw women as inferior.