OT: Obama's Socialism

[Tracey]

Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
it?

[Trance Gemini]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tracey <Tracey.M...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
it?

In Canada we all do.
 

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[Tracey]

On Sep 27, 1:14 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
> > it?
>
> In Canada we all do.

I know, you Canadians are like the French Socialist Republic. Do you
speak French?

[Trance Gemini]

You do know that France is the only other country which is a Republic and structured on lines similar to the US?

You *have* heard of the French Revolution haven't you?

You know, when they got rid of the Monarchy and created a Secular Republic just like the Americans did during with the American Revolution?

And the I believe the current government of France is a conservative one not a left wing one.

You might want to brush up on your knowledge of politics before trying to start a thread discussing politics.

And yes I speak a little French and no I'm not fluent in the language.

 

[Trance Gemini]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Trance Gemini <trance...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Tracey <Tracey.M...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sep 27, 1:14 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
> > it?
>
> In Canada we all do.

I know, you Canadians are like the French Socialist Republic. Do you
speak French?

You do know that France is the only other country which is a Republic and structured on lines similar to the US?

You *have* heard of the French Revolution haven't you?

You know, when they got rid of the Monarchy and created a Secular Republic just like the Americans did during with the American Revolution?

And the I believe the current government of France is a conservative one not a left wing one.

You might want to brush up on your knowledge of politics before trying to start a thread discussing politics.

And yes I speak a little French and no I'm not fluent in the language.

Oh, and the current Canadian governing party is also Conservative FYI.
 

 

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[hucktunes]

I approve. Unregulated capitalism is much too destructive in the
modern world. Insurance companies should not be in the health care
business.

[Tracey]

On Sep 27, 1:30 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 27, 1:14 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > > Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
> > > > it?
>
> > > In Canada we all do.
>
> > I know, you Canadians are like the French Socialist Republic. Do you
> > speak French?
>
> You do know that France is the only other country which is a Republic and
> structured on lines similar to the US?
>
> You *have* heard of the French Revolution haven't you?

Yes, I've seen Les Miserables.

> You know, when they got rid of the Monarchy and created a Secular Republic
> just like the Americans did during with the American Revolution?

Yes, Socialist in other words.

> And the I believe the current government of France is a conservative one not
> a left wing one.

Yes, leftist.

> You might want to brush up on your knowledge of politics before trying to
> start a thread discussing politics.

Politics is my game.

> And yes I speak a little French and no I'm not fluent in the language.

Good, you're still an aspiring communist.

[Trance Gemini]

Good. You're still a complete loon. Nothing aspiring about you.
 

[Tracey]

On Sep 27, 1:38 pm, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I approve. Unregulated capitalism is much too destructive in the
> modern world. Insurance companies should not be in the health care
> business.

It's the lesser of two evils. Why would you want your government to
meddle with the affairs of doctors and insurance companies. The USA is
a striving capitalist nation afterall. Why be like the French,
Canadians and the Chinese? And the Cubans too. They're all communists.

> On Sep 27, 1:00 pm, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for

> > it?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[klytu]

On Sep 27, 4:00 pm, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
> it?

klytu: I would approve of a socialized U.S. health care system. It
could be paid for like the U.S. public school system is paid for. The
current privatized medical system could be left in place alongside the
current one. And just as those people who have the desire and
financial means can choose to use the private school system, those
with the means and desire could continue to utilize the privatized
health care system that already exists. What is really the problem
with that?

Outside of a socialized health care option, another way to pay for the
upfront costs of many of the proposed heatlh care reforms would be to
bring all of our troops home and cease military operations abroad. The
cost of the wars we are fighting is enormous and would easily pay for
a lot of health care reform.

What I find telling about much of the politics surrounding U.S. health
care reform is rarely do I hear a critic of President Obama's health
care proposals publicly say something along the lines of "That part of
your proposal I agree with and I'll support you on it; but I don't
agree with this other part and we'll need to do more work on that."
This leads me to think that many critics don't really want to reform
the existing system, but want to use this issue as a means to forward
other political agendas.

[Dev]

Do you approve of "socialist", government-supported institutions such
as the post office, public school systems, sidewalks and roads and
bridges, state parks, zoos, libraries, museums and the military?

Have you petitioned your favorite right-wing politicians to give up
their government-paid health care?

Do you consider everyone who has served our country to be a dirty
socialist for accepting government aid in health care?

You realize you're a fucking moron, don't you?

[Simon Ewins]

Canajuns is communists?

Damn, I sure dint know thet, get muh gun Maude, I'se gone out ta tha porch
an shoot me some damn commies.


On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:08:15 -0400, Tracey <Tracey.M...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

--
-------------------------------------------------
No Gods - No Masters
http://nitheism.blogspot.com/

"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years
before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from
it." [ Mark Twain ]

[Trance Gemini]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Simon Ewins <sje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Canajuns is communists?

Damn, I sure dint know thet, get muh gun Maude, I'se gone out ta tha porch
an shoot me some damn commies.

C'est une imbecile. ;-)
 

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:08:15 -0400, Tracey <Tracey.M...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> On Sep 27, 1:38 pm, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I approve. Unregulated capitalism is much too destructive in the
>> modern world. Insurance companies should not be in the health care
>> business.
>
> It's the lesser of two evils. Why would you want your government to
> meddle with the affairs of doctors and insurance companies. The USA is
> a striving capitalist nation afterall. Why be like the French,
> Canadians and the Chinese? And the Cubans too. They're all communists.
>
>> On Sep 27, 1:00 pm, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
>> > it?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> >


--

-------------------------------------------------
No Gods - No Masters
http://nitheism.blogspot.com/

"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years
before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from
it." [ Mark Twain ]

[Simon Ewins]

Oui, c'est sur. Mon poisson rouge a perdu plus de cellules du cerveau que ce qu'elle a fait.

;)

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[Dev]

Paraphrased Bill Maher on the anti-Obama teabagger protests: "Old
white people and guns--now that's a bad combination. One person yells
out 'AK-47!' and another yells 'Bingo'!"

On Sep 27, 3:32 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Simon Ewins <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Canajuns is communists?
>
> > Damn, I sure dint know thet, get muh gun Maude, I'se gone out ta tha porch
> > an shoot me some damn commies.
>
> C'est une imbecile. ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> > On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:08:15 -0400, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------- Hide quoted text -

[Simon Ewins]

LOL. Excellent. Love Bill Maher.

[Trance Gemini]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Simon Ewins <sje...@gmail.com> wrote:

Oui, c'est sur. Mon poisson rouge a perdu plus de cellules du cerveau que ce qu'elle a fait.

;)

LMAO!!
 

[Trance Gemini]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Dev <thede...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

Paraphrased Bill Maher on the anti-Obama teabagger protests: "Old
white people and guns--now that's a bad combination. One person yells
out 'AK-47!' and another yells 'Bingo'!"

That says it all! LOL!
 

[Steve in Virginia]

Then you would agree - based upon your position that universal health
care is a communist/socialist agenda - that all the members of
congress and the military fully embrace Communism. Those two
organizations enjoy absolutely free medical care for as long as they
serve, or it can continue on for life is they retire.

Steve

[Steve in Virginia]

Well jes a dern minit Bill-Joe-Bob. Doan goin-a killin' those commie
cajoons 'til we git a gud recipee fer Chikin' en sausage gumbo en one
fer that there shrimp e-too-fay.

On Sep 27, 5:30 pm, "Simon Ewins" <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Canajuns is communists?
>
> Damn, I sure dint know thet, get muh gun Maude, I'se gone out ta tha porch  
> an shoot me some damn commies.
>

> On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:08:15 -0400, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com>  

> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 27, 1:38 pm, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I approve. Unregulated capitalism is much too destructive in the
> >> modern world. Insurance companies should not be in the health care
> >> business.
>
> > It's the lesser of two evils. Why would you want your government to
> > meddle with the affairs of doctors and insurance companies. The USA is
> > a striving capitalist nation afterall. Why be like the French,
> > Canadians and the Chinese? And the Cubans too. They're all communists.
>
> >> On Sep 27, 1:00 pm, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
> >> > it?- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------

> No Gods - No Mastershttp://nitheism.blogspot.com/

[Observer]

On Sep 27, 1:00 pm, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
> it?

In asking such a question you display a belief that there is anyone in
this country that is turned away from hospital emergency rooms when
the need help. They are not and guess who is paying for that?

The differences that arise when everyone has quality health care is
that preventative medicine and early treatment will be practiced
allowing people to remain healthier for much longer periods of time.

Such is a much more beneficial process for all concerned. At present
large numbers of people wait until diseases are life threatening and
exorbitantly expensive to treat..

An extremely important part of a * properly run* health care system
lies in the management of information which of course must contain the
entirety of every persons complete health treatments , and medical
history. .Such information can save untold numbers of lives when
immediate access to such is available universally . Further such
information will expose multiplicity of unnecessary medical
procedures and unnecessary expenses/charges for which we all pay at
present.

I am at present an out patient at the VA hospital and am dying of a
heart disease the care I have received has been outstanding in every
way . They extend not only my life some fifteen years beyond what I
was told to expect, but the enhanced the quality thereof with skill
and professionalism that few can imagine.

Yes the VA hospital is run by the United States Government and I am
proud to say that they deserve every honor for their
professionalism ,and the quality of care given . They are in
possession of the finest and most up to date medical equipment that
anyone could ask for . Their personnel are top quality and I am amazed
that they are able to consistently find and hire such.

Moving on to the question of whether or not to supply universal health
care. The answer is a resounding yes . We are at present spending the
current health care system into oblivion. That is that Americans pay
exorbitantly for care that is really rather mediocre and not on a par
with many European countries. As the costs rise ,access is thereby
denied, to the lower income segments of our nation.

Further more the first principle of insurance has been completely
forgotten by all who participate , control, or otherwise , pretend to
contribute to such.
The basic and common sense understanding of insurance is the division
of risk , not the elimination of such for either the insurer of the
insured.

It is deeply unethical for the human condition to be held hostage by
the insane lust to distort the proper function of health care delivery
and to profit thereby.

Please understand I am a capitalist and as such am deeply influenced
by the profit motive which drives the capitalistic system. Intelligent
profit is the impetus to a successful and thriving nation.

It is however of vital importance for the players to learn difference
between shearing sheep and eating mutton.


People die every year because they are refused the more expensive
surgeries and treatments which are necessary due to the fact that they
have never practiced any wellness/fitness programs or due to the fact
that these, now fatal, diseases were not diagnosed early enough for
the patient to respond to early and much less expensive treatment.

When there is a response system in place to assist the uninsured or
under insured the bill goes directly to the insured , a charitable
organization , and to the tax payers . These billings are often
obscenely inflated by both the quantity of procedures necessary and
by the fact that no one is overseeing the charges and requiring an
appropriateness there of.


It is unethical and immoral for any nation as wealthy as are we, to
deny proper health care to any human being under any circumstance .

The only task of the insuring companies and that for which they are
entitled to compensation is that of administration, this due to the
fact that “we the people” are and have been been assuming the
entirety of the risks by paying medical bills, paying increased
premiums, absorbing the huge increase of costs hospitals add out of
fear that some bills will not be paid by those the companies refusing
to cover some people expenses. Such by exercising bail out clauses in
the insuring agreements. The only reason to abandon their insureds is
because the are going to need financial assistance with their medical
bills.
Which is the very reason that their industry exists.

It is time to eliminate the breach of anti trust morality that exists
in relation to insurance companies. We must as a rational , wealthy
and powerful nation turn to the needs the people and disallow the
pilliging of the poor and defenseless at the whim of the powerful and
the greedy. They are so lost in their brutishness that they fail to
see that they are about to kill the goose which lays the golden egg.

We either take control now or loose what is left of our health care
delivery system altogether.

Too many thieves spoil even the most successful of criminal
enterprises. (which is in this case sucking up the money and denying
reasonable coverage.)

Think become active don't allow the Washington insiders who are
beneficiaries of the insurance companies as lobbyists to continue
this perverse travesty ,this gross criminality.

Regards to all

Psychonomist

[Dev]

Eloquent post, Obs.

[Observer]

On Sep 27, 4:06 pm, Dev <thedevil...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Eloquent post, Obs.

Observer

Thank you Sir.

Regards

Psychonomist

[Trance Gemini]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Observer <mayo...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sep 27, 4:06 pm, Dev <thedevil...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Eloquent post, Obs.

Observer

Yes it was excellent Obs.
 

[Observer]

On Sep 27, 4:36 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 27, 4:06 pm, Dev <thedevil...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > > Eloquent post, Obs.
>
> > Observer
>
> Yes it was excellent Obs.

Thank you Kitty

You guys made my day.

Psychonomist

[hucktunes]

On Sep 27, 4:01 pm, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In asking such a question you display a belief that there is anyone in
> this country that is turned away from hospital emergency rooms when
> the need help. They are not and guess who is paying for that?

That may be true but the fact is that hospitalization as well as
medical insurance are very expensive. My gal dislocated her shoulder
last November and the ER treatment cost a couple thousand dollars. The
rotator cuff broke and the cost to repair it was one hundred thousand
dollars which is unaffordable. By the time she got Stanford to approve
an 80% discount the damage is too extensive and now the shoulder needs
to be replaced. She does not qualify for assistance and so far has
spent ten thousand dollars on MRIs etc. Social Security has approved
disability but Medicare will not kick in for two tears.

[Observer]

On Sep 27, 7:25 pm, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 27, 4:01 pm, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In asking such a question you display a belief that there is anyone in
> > this country that is turned away from hospital emergency rooms when
> > the need help. They are not and guess who is paying for that?
>
> That may be true but the fact is that hospitalization as well as
> medical insurance are very expensive. My gal dislocated her shoulder
> last November and the ER treatment cost a couple thousand dollars. The
> rotator cuff broke and the cost to repair it was one hundred thousand
> dollars which is unaffordable. By the time she got Stanford to approve
> an 80% discount the damage is too extensive and now the shoulder needs
> to be replaced. She does not qualify for assistance and so far has
> spent ten thousand dollars on MRIs etc. Social Security has approved
> disability but Medicare will not kick in for two tears.

Observer
Yours is the kind of horror story that must not be repeated there can
be no valid reason for health insurers to avoid paying what is
contracted for WHEN IT IS NEEDED. Furthermore there should be no
reason for overly large deductibles or co-pays and no reason that you
should have had to seek out the coverage which came too late. Upper
limits for coverage in $$ for necessary coveraGES MUST BE FACTORED INT
THE STRUVTURE OF THE HEALTH CARE COSTS necessary coverage save in the
case of people wealthy enough to afford the risk and educated enough
to understand it.

[Dead Kennedy]

well lets talk money.

I pay around £10 a week in national insurance contributions (which of
course also covers unemployment insurance) and as im self employed, i
usually need to top up at the end of the year. This year cost £86. On
top of that we also pay £7.50 per item of medication or, if you use a
lot you can get a prepayment certificate for £109/year that will cover
any meds you need so, to access everything offered by the national
health sevice i pay...£715/annum.

How does that compare with your insurace payments, once the profit has
been taken out?

[Answer_42]

On Sep 27, 5:43 pm, "Simon Ewins" <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oui, c'est sur. Mon poisson rouge a perdu plus de cellules du cerveau que  
> ce qu'elle a fait.
>
> ;)

C'est difficile de te contredire, même si tu es un communiste!
_____________________________________________
A cult is a religion with no political power.
-- Tom Wolfe

[philosophy]

On Sep 28, 6:00 am, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
> it?

We have Medicare in Australia.
It's a matter of priorities. It's not socialism.
It's whether you believe that everyone is
entitled to basic health care, or not.

[philosophy]

On Sep 28, 6:38 am, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I approve. Unregulated capitalism is much too destructive in the
> modern world. Insurance companies should not be in the health care
> business.

We have both in Australia. There is a medicare levy for all
Australians.
Then, if anyone chooses to pay up to the Insurance Companies, they
can get private health care. In reality what happens is that those
who
pay for private have access to both the public and the private
sector.
For those who don't pay for private insurance also have access to both
sectors - it's just they have to pay for their operation if they
choose to
have it in a private facility. That is where it becomes expensive.
Where
we have major problems is three main areas:
1. Young doctors are overworked and mistakes are made - unnecessary
deaths.
2. The public sector requires more money injected than it currently
has.
3. Because it's the bean counters who are in charge of rosters,
staff, etc., they run the hospitals at 100% capacity with as few staff
as possible. There's always complaints about the doctors and the
nurses. My complaint is not about them, but with administration,
where it should be. The doctors and nurses do their best in difficult
circumstances.
Public health has it's good side and bad side. Personally I think we
need
it in both hospital and pharmacy areas. It is up to our Governments to
fund
it appropriately, to cut the wastage and get rid of the fat. The fat
is in the bureaucracy - not at the front line. There is so much money
wasted behind the scenes of government. Remember the old adage - a
hospital (put in school, anything) would run very well if it didn't
have patients - they clog up the system. Well, that's how
bureaucracies run, and they need to be pulled to account.

[philosophy]

On Sep 28, 7:05 am, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 27, 1:30 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 27, 1:14 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com>

> > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
> > > > > it?
>

> > > > In Canada we all do.
>
> > > I know, you Canadians are like the French Socialist Republic. Do you
> > > speak French?
>
> > You do know that France is the only other country which is a Republic and
> > structured on lines similar to the US?
>
> > You *have* heard of the French Revolution haven't you?
>
> Yes, I've seen Les Miserables.
>
> > You know, when they got rid of the Monarchy and created a Secular Republic
> > just like the Americans did during with the American Revolution?
>
> Yes, Socialist in other words.
>
> > And the I believe the current government of France is a conservative one not
> > a left wing one.
>
> Yes, leftist.
>
> > You might want to brush up on your knowledge of politics before trying to
> > start a thread discussing politics.
>
> Politics is my game.
>
> > And yes I speak a little French and no I'm not fluent in the language.
>
> Good, you're still an aspiring communist.

Tracey, you are full of shit.

[philosophy]

On Sep 28, 7:08 am, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 27, 1:38 pm, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I approve. Unregulated capitalism is much too destructive in the
> > modern world. Insurance companies should not be in the health care
> > business.
>
> It's the lesser of two evils. Why would you want your government to
> meddle with the affairs of doctors and insurance companies. The USA is
> a striving capitalist nation afterall. Why be like the French,
> Canadians and the Chinese? And the Cubans too. They're all communists.

Having lived in many sorts of countries with different ideologies, I
can
honestly say that you have no bloody idea of what you are talking
about.

[Simon Ewins]

Merci, mon ami.

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:16:57 -0400, Answer_42 <ipu.be...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[philosophy]

On Sep 28, 7:13 am, klytu <jazzyjef...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Sep 27, 4:00 pm, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
> > it?
>

> klytu: I would approve of a socialized U.S. health care system. It
> could be paid for like the U.S. public school system is paid for. The
> current privatized medical system could be left in place alongside the
> current one. And just as those people who have the desire and
> financial means can choose to use the private school system, those
> with the means and desire could continue to utilize the privatized
> health care system that already exists.  What is really the problem
> with that?
>
> Outside of a socialized health care option, another way to pay for the
> upfront costs of many of the proposed heatlh care reforms would be to
> bring all of our troops home and cease military operations abroad. The
> cost of the wars we are fighting is enormous and would easily pay for
> a lot of health care reform.

I agree, have you ever looked at the DOW? In September of 2003 (I
think it was) when GWB declared war on Iran, the DOW took off, and it
didn't stop until it reached over 14000 in 2008. It really is amazing
how wars actually make money, even though they do cost money.

>
> What I find telling about much of the politics surrounding U.S. health
> care reform is rarely do I hear a critic of President Obama's health
> care proposals publicly say something along the lines of "That part of
> your proposal I agree with and I'll support you on it; but I don't
> agree with this other part and we'll need to do more work on that."
> This leads me to think that many critics don't really want to reform
> the existing system, but want to use this issue as a means to forward
> other political agendas.
Absolutely. The reality is that change upsets the status quo, and most
of these people in governments are only after feathering their own
nests. What amazes me here in Australia is that many local government
officials are actually getting paid more than the prime minister -
it's all self gratuity and interest. Greed comes in all forms.

[Simon Ewins]

One of the measures of a civilized society is how it cares for its
citizens. I believe that everyone has a right in my society to unfettered
health care.

[philosophy]

Sorry to hear about your health Obs - that's a crock. This may not be
of
any use to you, but it is fantastic what is currently being done as
far as
heart problems are concerned.
http://www.heartware.com.au/IRM/content/home.html

[philosophy]

On Sep 28, 12:25 pm, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 27, 4:01 pm, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In asking such a question you display a belief that there is anyone in
> > this country that is turned away from hospital emergency rooms when
> > the need help. They are not and guess who is paying for that?
>
> That may be true but the fact is that hospitalization as well as
> medical insurance are very expensive. My gal dislocated her shoulder
> last November and the ER treatment cost a couple thousand dollars. The
> rotator cuff broke and the cost to repair it was one hundred thousand
> dollars which is unaffordable. By the time she got Stanford to approve
> an 80% discount the damage is too extensive and now the shoulder needs
> to be replaced. She does not qualify for assistance and so far has
> spent ten thousand dollars on MRIs etc. Social Security has approved
> disability but Medicare will not kick in for two tears.

Why on earth does she have to wait two years?
In this country, she would be put on a priority list, and I am sure
that
in her case, she would have an operation before that. Mind you, there
are many people on what they call the "elective surgery" list who have
to wait years. The problem is what they call elective surgery, is in
many
cases what I would deem to be necessary surgery.

[philosophy]

Agreed.

[philosophy]

On Sep 29, 7:04 am, "Simon Ewins" <sjew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> One of the measures of a civilized society is how it cares for its  
> citizens. I believe that everyone has a right in my society to unfettered  
> health care.

Yes, I agree totally. Those who want to pay for private insurance are
entitled to do so. I have paid for private health insurance ever
since I got into the work force. That was one of the few stipulations
my parents forced on me. However, it is now in my life as I quickly
head towards my sixties, that I am starting to use some of it. I can
see the value in it. I can also see that if more people who could
afford to take it out, and there are a lot who can but who choose not
to, would make it easier on the public health system. I have not been
in the happy position of being able to afford it - it has just been a
matter of priority that I was really given no choice, and then as I
grew older, it was just factored into my psyche to continue with it.
As it becomes more expensive every year (now over two thousand
dollars) it can be tempting to ditch it, but I prefer to maintain the
payments, because in reality one small operation per year can gobble
the premium up in one hit.

>
> On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:45:24 -0400, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > On Sep 28, 6:00 am, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
> >> it?
>
> > We have Medicare in Australia.
> > It's a matter of priorities.  It's not socialism.
> > It's whether you believe that everyone is
> > entitled to basic health care, or not.
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------

> No Gods - No Mastershttp://nitheism.blogspot.com/

[Dead Kennedy]

one problem we in the UK has is it is the consultant surgeons work so
few hours for the NHS.

So, to get waiting lists down, the NHS pays for "private" surgery.
Which in reality means paying the same consultant surgeon who then
"rents" an NHS operating theatre and NHS nurses etc to carry out the
operation.

it actually works out cheaper, but thats only because the surgeon is
paid so much on the NHS in the first place. We still get it free at
the point of delivery of course ;0)

[hucktunes]

On Sep 28, 2:12 pm, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:

> Why on earth does she have to wait two years?

Beats me. That's what the papers say. The Medicare will not be
activated for two years. As for the hospital administrators, that's
who originally screwed things up at Stanford. They filed her papers
under her maiden name so every time we contacted them it was back to
square one. We found this out the day before our last trip to
Stanford. Her muscles have now healed to the point that the operation
is no longer possible. We learned a lot about needing medical care
without insurance. First, don't use a credit card or you'll owe the
bank. Second, using cash you can get 80% discounts.

[philosophy]

On Sep 29, 7:24 am, Dead Kennedy <dead.kenne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> one problem we in the UK has is it is the consultant surgeons work so
> few hours for the NHS.
>
> So, to get waiting lists down, the NHS pays for "private" surgery.
> Which in reality means paying the same consultant surgeon who then
> "rents" an NHS operating theatre and NHS nurses etc to carry out the
> operation.
>
> it actually works out cheaper, but thats only because the surgeon is
> paid so much on the NHS in the first place. We still get it free at
> the point of delivery of course ;0)

Well, I'm glad you get it free.
I really do wonder about some doctors. I see some of them a bit like
the CEOs - some are really overpaid, and they are greedy. I am all
for reasonable compensation for their time, because they have
studied for a long time. They have huge insurances to pay etc.
But, I do wonder as to how much their "take home" pay is. I must
admit I would not like to be a medico, so I suppose I have no choice
but to pay. A friend of mine has just been told he has prostate
cancer. He has private cover, but the therapy he has chosen is not
covered. He has chosen to have radioactive seeds placed in the
prostate. The whole procedure will cost him just over twenty grand.
Still, it's his money to do with what he will.

[philosophy]

On Sep 29, 7:52 am, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 28, 2:12 pm, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>
> > Why on earth does she have to wait two years?
>
> Beats me. That's what the papers say. The Medicare will not be
> activated for two years. As for the hospital administrators, that's
> who originally screwed things up at Stanford. They filed her papers
> under her maiden name so every time we contacted them it was back to
> square one. We found this out the day before our last trip to
> Stanford. Her muscles have now healed to the point that the operation
> is no longer possible. We learned a lot about needing medical care
> without insurance. First, don't use a credit card or you'll owe the
> bank. Second, using cash you can get 80% discounts.

Man, that's huge. 80% discounts to me simply means it's 80%
overpriced in the first place.
It seems to me from what you have said that instead of having
"waiting lists", you guys are managed by rules of engagement.
Weird. Certainly, when you are talking about paying medical
bills, unless you have the ready cash to pay off the card, don't
put them on the card. I've never heard of a discount in this
country, how do you get discounts in yours? Just ask for one?

[Dead Kennedy]

there was a tv programme a few months back where a high profile
british CEO was sent to run a hospital for a month. The first thing he
discovered was that there was no surgery EVER booked on a wednesday,
because that was traditionally the consultants "golf day".

oh, and their insurance is picked up by NHS (so us!)

Still, i'd rather our system than the yanks.

[philosophy]

On Sep 29, 8:32 am, Dead Kennedy <dead.kenne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> there was a tv programme a few months back where a high profile
> british CEO was sent to run a hospital for a month. The first thing he
> discovered was that there was no surgery EVER booked on a wednesday,
> because that was traditionally the consultants "golf day".

One really has to wonder! So, you guys are paying for them to play
golf all day - wow - they really are dedicated :-)

>
> oh, and their insurance is picked up by NHS (so us!)
>
> Still, i'd rather our system than the yanks.
>

Yes, it is better, or so it seems. Ours needs a bit more tweeking,
but
at least most people are catered for. The ones who really have a
problem are those who live a long way from services such as oncology
etc., and when you consider how vast Australia is, there must be quite
a lot of them. Thank goodness for the Flying Doctors. Most of these
people can't do without them. Angel Flight is another good one.
I wouldn't want what is in the US, either. When there are people
like Tracey who equate free health care with Communism/Socialism,
man they really have some dumb, dumb people!

> ...
>
> read more »

[hucktunes]

On Sep 28, 3:26 pm, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>I've never heard of a discount in this
> country, how do you get discounts in yours? Just ask for one?

Yep, just ask. She got a 60% discount on the hospital bills for our
local hospital, X rays, MRI etc. and 80% at Stanford in Redwood City.
She also got 60% off the visits to the doctor's office. No discounts
for the doctors themselves but it's the hospitals and admin, nurses
etc. that cost so much.

[philosophy]

On Sep 29, 1:04 pm, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 28, 3:26 pm, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>
> >I've never heard of a discount in this
> > country, how do you get discounts in yours?  Just ask for one?
>
> Yep, just ask. She got a 60% discount on the hospital bills for our
> local hospital, X rays, MRI etc. and 80% at Stanford in Redwood City.
> She also got 60% off the visits to the doctor's office. No discounts
> for the doctors themselves but it's the hospitals and admin, nurses
> etc. that cost so much.

That's almost like a barter system.
Very interesting. Just finished looking at books by Arianna
Huffington
called "How to overthrow the Government", and "Pigs at the Trough" -
they will be on my wish list. I have always maintained that Lobbyists
should be banned - she tends to prove my point:
On page 2 she says "From 1997 to 1999, according to the Center for
Responsive Politics, the number of registered lobbyists in Washington
grew by 37 percent to more than 20,000, while the amount of money they
spent reached $1.42 billion.... That's roughly 38 lobbyists for each
member of Congress." I guess that number would have grown even more
by now. How pathetic! This, and they can't even give you a decent
Health Care System.

> ...
>
> read more »

[LL]

On Sep 27, 1:00 pm, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for
> it?

LL: Yes. The same people will pay for it as are paying for a much more
expensive, disorganized system now--the American taxpayers. This is
how government works.

************************************************************************

[LL]

On Sep 27, 2:08 pm, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 27, 1:38 pm, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I approve. Unregulated capitalism is much too destructive in the
> > modern world. Insurance companies should not be in the health care
> > business.
>
> It's the lesser of two evils. Why would you want your government to
> meddle with the affairs of doctors and insurance companies.

LL: It would beat the meddling of insurance companies in our health
care--all to increase their profits.

Tracey: The USA is

> a striving capitalist nation afterall. Why be like the French,
> Canadians and the Chinese? And the Cubans too. They're all communists.

LL: Communists have government run military, post office, public
education, highway system, welfare system, just like the Americans.
Does that make Americans Communists or does it make Communists
capitalists?

**************************

>
>
>
> > On Sep 27, 1:00 pm, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for

[LL]

On Sep 27, 2:13 pm, klytu <jazzyjef...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Sep 27, 4:00 pm, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay for

> > it?
>
> klytu: I would approve of a socialized U.S. health care system. It
> could be paid for like the U.S. public school system is paid for. The
> current privatized medical system could be left in place alongside the
> current one. And just as those people who have the desire and
> financial means can choose to use the private school system, those
> with the means and desire could continue to utilize the privatized
> health care system that already exists.  What is really the problem
> with that?
>
> Outside of a socialized health care option, another way to pay for the
> upfront costs of many of the proposed heatlh care reforms would be to
> bring all of our troops home and cease military operations abroad. The
> cost of the wars we are fighting is enormous and would easily pay for
> a lot of health care reform.
>

> What I find telling about much of the politics surrounding U.S. health
> care reform is rarely do I hear a critic of President Obama's health
> care proposals publicly say something along the lines of "That part of
> your proposal I agree with and I'll support you on it; but I don't
> agree with this other part and we'll need to do more work on that."
> This leads me to think that many critics don't really want to reform
> the existing system, but want to use this issue as a means to forward
> other political agendas.

LL: Absolutely right! For the most part the ones against health care
proposals don't want to do anything that will interfere with insurance
companies' profits. They like it the way it is, no matter how bad it
is for a large percentage of the population.

****************************************************

[hucktunes]

On Sep 29, 3:38 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:

> LL: Communists have government run military, post office, public
> education, highway system, welfare system, just like the Americans.
> Does that make Americans Communists or does it make Communists
> capitalists?

All systems are ultimately financed by banks. Bankers financed the
Russian Revolution in the first place. It matters not if a system is
called communist, socialist, democratic, autocratic, whatever, they
are all capitalistic.

[Dev]

Arianna Huffington I agree with on a lot of things, but she's more of
a TV pundit in the US and I wouldn't waste your money on her books.
You should spend your money on books by actual experts and not
promotional materials for cable celebrities. Still, she's not entirely
crazy. Here's what she thinks of huck:

---

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/thank-you-glenn-beck_b_278839.html

I despise 9/11 "truther" conspiracies. Indeed, one of the guidelines
for bloggers on HuffPost is a ban on posts putting forth those kinds
of theories. And it was stupid of Van to put his name on a very stupid
"9/11 Truth Statement." I've spoken to Van. He doesn't believe that
the Bush administration orchestrated the 9/11 attacks or allowed the
attacks to happen in a cold-hearted attempt to gin up support. The
9/11 "Truthers" are fringe-dwellers and Van was completely wrong to
allow himself to be associated with them.

---

Arianna is right that you don't even want to be associated with
someone like huck.

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[hucktunes]

Quit stalking me, creep.

On Sep 29, 8:27 pm, Dev <thedevil...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Arianna Huffington I agree with on a lot of things, but she's more of
> a TV pundit in the US and I wouldn't waste your money on her books.
> You should spend your money on books by actual experts and not
> promotional materials for cable celebrities. Still, she's not entirely
> crazy. Here's what she thinks of huck:
>
> ---
>

> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/thank-you-glenn-beck...

> ...
>
> read more »

[philosophy]

On Sep 30, 1:27 pm, Dev <thedevil...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Arianna Huffington I agree with on a lot of things, but she's more of
> a TV pundit in the US and I wouldn't waste your money on her books.

Well, I haven't bought any of them yet. What I liked about the title
of
one in particular was the pigs in the trough. I think the CEOs, or
some
should I say, really do need to be held accountable for their
corporate
greed. Unfortunately they are not, and hence we will have a repeat
of the last downturn, except this one may just be worse. I'm into the
changing of this nonsense, because in the end analysis it is the
little
player, the Mums and Dads and the average family, who will be hit.
Just look what happened in Iceland. For all the rhetoric by the
British, they have not arrested those bankers yet, and at least
one of them is living in London.

> You should spend your money on books by actual experts and not
> promotional materials for cable celebrities. Still, she's not entirely
> crazy. Here's what she thinks of huck:
>
> ---
>

> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/thank-you-glenn-beck...

> ...
>
> read more »

[LL]

On Sep 27, 7:25 pm, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 27, 4:01 pm, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In asking such a question you display a belief that there is anyone in
> > this country that is turned away from hospital emergency rooms when
> > the need help. They are not and guess who is paying for that?
>
> That may be true but the fact is that hospitalization as well as
> medical insurance are very expensive. My gal dislocated her shoulder
> last November and the ER treatment cost a couple thousand dollars. The
> rotator cuff broke and the cost to repair it was one hundred thousand
> dollars which is unaffordable. By the time she got Stanford to approve
> an 80% discount the damage is too extensive and now the shoulder needs
> to be replaced. She does not qualify for assistance and so far has
> spent ten thousand dollars on MRIs etc. Social Security has approved
> disability but Medicare will not kick in for two tears.

LL: That's true. Emergency rooms are for emergencies--and minor
complaints. If you need anything more complicated than what amounts to
first aid, you're out of luck. I know about people who have been told
they may have cancer and that they should see a doctor. They have no
insurance--emergency rooms don't do cancer surgery and they don't
provide chemotherapy or radiation. What is an uninsured or
underinsured person supposed to do? Beg for charity?

*****************************

**********************

> > When there is a response system in place to assist the uninsured or
> > under insured the bill goes directly to the insured ,  a charitable
> > organization , and to the tax payers .  These billings are often
> > obscenely inflated  by both the quantity of procedures necessary and
> > by the fact that no one is overseeing the charges and requiring an
> > appropriateness there of.
>
> > It is unethical and immoral for any nation as wealthy as are we, to
> > deny proper  health care to any human being under any circumstance .
>
> > The only task of the insuring companies and that for which they are
> > entitled to compensation is that of administration, this  due to the
> > fact that  “we the people” are and have been been assuming the
> > entirety of the risks by paying medical bills, paying increased
> > premiums,  absorbing the huge increase of costs hospitals add out of
> > fear that some bills will not be paid by those the companies refusing
> > to cover some people expenses. Such by exercising bail out clauses in
> > the insuring agreements.  The only reason to abandon their insureds is
> > because the are going to need financial assistance with their medical
> > bills.

> > Which is the very reason that their industry exists.
>
> > It is time to eliminate the breach of anti trust morality that exists
> > in relation to insurance companies. We must as a rational , wealthy
> > and powerful nation turn to the needs the people and disallow the
> > pilliging of the poor and defenseless at the whim of the powerful and
> > the greedy. They are so lost in their brutishness that they fail to
> > see that they are about to kill the goose which lays the golden egg.
>
> > We either take control now or loose what is left of our health care
> > delivery system altogether.
>
> > Too many thieves spoil even the most  successful of criminal
> > enterprises. (which is in this case sucking up the money and denying
> > reasonable coverage.)
>
> > Think become active don't allow the Washington insiders who are
> > beneficiaries of the insurance companies as lobbyists  to continue
> > this perverse travesty ,this gross criminality.
>

> > Regards to all
>
> > Psychonomist

[LL]

On Sep 28, 1:20 am, Dead Kennedy <dead.kenne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> well lets talk money.
>
> I pay around £10 a week in national insurance contributions (which of
> course also covers unemployment insurance) and as im self employed, i
> usually need to top up at the end of the year. This year cost £86. On
> top of that we also pay £7.50 per item of medication or, if you use a
> lot you can get a prepayment certificate for £109/year that will cover
> any meds you need so, to access everything offered by the national
> health sevice i pay...£715/annum.
>
> How does that compare with your insurace payments, once the profit has
> been taken out?


LL: Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We're lucky if we can get away with a couple of thousand a year--and
that doesn't count what we'd have to pay for serious care.


***************************

[LL]

On Sep 28, 3:32 pm, Dead Kennedy <dead.kenne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> there was a tv programme a few months back where a high profile
> british CEO was sent to run a hospital for a month. The first thing he
> discovered was that there was no surgery EVER booked on a wednesday,
> because that was traditionally the consultants "golf day".
>
> oh, and their insurance is picked up by NHS (so us!)
>
> Still, i'd rather our system than the yanks.

LL: So would anyone else with at least half his brain functioning.

****************************************

> > > > > > Regards to all...
>
> read more »

[LL]

On Sep 29, 4:17 pm, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 29, 3:38 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > LL: Communists have government run military, post office, public
> > education, highway system, welfare system, just like the Americans.
> > Does that make Americans Communists or does it make Communists
> > capitalists?
>
> All systems are ultimately financed by banks. Bankers financed the
> Russian Revolution in the first place. It matters not if a system is
> called communist, socialist, democratic, autocratic, whatever, they
> are all capitalistic.

LL: I agree!

**************************

[LL]

On Sep 30, 11:48 am, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sep 28, 1:20 am, Dead Kennedy <dead.kenne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > well lets talk money.
>
> > I pay around £10 a week in national insurance contributions (which of
> > course also covers unemployment insurance) and as im self employed, i
> > usually need to top up at the end of the year. This year cost £86. On
> > top of that we also pay £7.50 per item of medication or, if you use a
> > lot you can get a prepayment certificate for £109/year that will cover
> > any meds you need so, to access everything offered by the national
> > health sevice i pay...£715/annum.
>
> > How does that compare with your insurace payments, once the profit has
> > been taken out?
>
> LL: Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> We're lucky if we can get away with a couple of thousand a year--and
> that doesn't count what we'd have to pay for serious care.

LL: Of course, I meant dollars.

[Dev]

I would recommend Naomi Klein's _The Shock Doctrine_ if you want a
well-researched hard-left perspective on this. I disagree with her on
some historical points, but she is a more serious source than
Huffington (who I'm sure cites Klein's first-hand material, because
it's a primary source for Huffington types). Not really many people in
the US admit to agreeing with the CEOs. Both the left and right
publically claim to be against their excesses--the difference is
merely in approach. In terms of politicians, they all have a little
cash from the lobbyists in their pockets, but even they pretend to be
with non-politicians on this.

By the way, I would be interested in you starting threads regarding
your thoughts on any recent reading you've done.

[philosophy]

On Oct 1, 2:45 pm, Dev <thedevil...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> I would recommend Naomi Klein's _The Shock Doctrine_ if you want a
> well-researched hard-left perspective on this. I disagree with her on
> some historical points, but she is a more serious source than
> Huffington (who I'm sure cites Klein's first-hand material, because
> it's a primary source for Huffington types). Not really many people in
> the US admit to agreeing with the CEOs. Both the left and right
> publically claim to be against their excesses--the difference is
> merely in approach. In terms of politicians, they all have a little
> cash from the lobbyists in their pockets, but even they pretend to be
> with non-politicians on this.

Thanks Dev.
I'll put it on the list.

>
> By the way, I would be interested in you starting threads regarding
> your thoughts on any recent reading you've done.

Really? I think the one I'm reading at the moment would not be of
interest to anyone. I, however, find it hilarious.
It's an old book - ed 1979 called "Animal Days" by Desmond Morris.
I'm very much into animals, and have just finished "Dewey - the
library
cat." I liked that one so much, I bought both books on Dewey and will
give them to the school library. They arrived from the US the other
day.
I read a lot of different stuff Dev which may not be appropriate for
discussion here. The book before that was on "High Octane Trading"
by Steve Wirrick. I've been sick for a week, so I got through quite
a
few while relaxing in bed and on the verandah. Then of course, was
the Three Swans. Wonderful, wonderful book. About three generations
of Chinese, from the start of the revolution in China to the present
day.
Very appropriate considering the Chinese have just celebrated 60 years
of communism. I never really know what I will be reading, but will
keep
this in mind so I can share anything that comes up which may have some
bearing on religion, in a broad sense.
What about you Dev - you read a lot. Maybe something from you would
be more appropriate.
Cheers

> ...
>
> read more »

[Dev]

I think OT threads are fine if they're marked "OT" and pertain to the
interests of other posters--Trance and the TV show "Dexter", for
example, which a lot of us watch. I don't know how many people have
read _Dewey_, but Trance would probably be interested. :) I bring up
all sorts of books here. If you've read any of the ones I've
mentioned, I'd love for you to start a thread about them.

[philosophy]

On Oct 2, 1:27 pm, Dev <thedevil...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> I think OT threads are fine if they're marked "OT" and pertain to the
> interests of other posters--Trance and the TV show "Dexter", for
> example, which a lot of us watch. I don't know how many people have
> read _Dewey_, but Trance would probably be interested. :) I bring up
> all sorts of books here. If you've read any of the ones I've
> mentioned, I'd love for you to start a thread about them.

Oh, okay. I probably haven't read many. I will check them out.
Yes, Trance probably would like Dewey. It's a lovely story.
I have ordered the Naomi Klein book you mentioned through
Amazon.com, so it should get here in a few weeks.

Just FYI, here we go again.
http://brokenrites.alphalink.com.au/nletter/page180-current-court-cases.html
The whole thing really is sickening.

> ...
>
> read more »

[hucktunes]

Here's a Google Video of Naomi Klein talking about The Shock Doctrine.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4231109320246838401#

On Oct 1, 11:06 pm, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 1:27 pm, Dev <thedevil...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> > I think OT threads are fine if they're marked "OT" and pertain to the
> > interests of other posters--Trance and the TV show "Dexter", for
> > example, which a lot of us watch. I don't know how many people have
> > read _Dewey_, but Trance would probably be interested. :) I bring up
> > all sorts of books here. If you've read any of the ones I've
> > mentioned, I'd love for you to start a thread about them.
>
> Oh, okay.  I probably haven't read many. I will check them out.
> Yes, Trance probably would like Dewey.  It's a lovely story.
> I have ordered the Naomi Klein book  you mentioned through
> Amazon.com, so it should get here in a few weeks.
>

> Just FYI, here we go again.http://brokenrites.alphalink.com.au/nletter/page180-current-court-cas...

> ...
>
> read more »

[Trance Gemini]

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 2:06 AM, philosophy <smwi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:

On Oct 2, 1:27 pm, Dev <thedevil...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> I think OT threads are fine if they're marked "OT" and pertain to the
> interests of other posters--Trance and the TV show "Dexter", for
> example, which a lot of us watch. I don't know how many people have
> read _Dewey_, but Trance would probably be interested. :) I bring up
> all sorts of books here. If you've read any of the ones I've
> mentioned, I'd love for you to start a thread about them.

Oh, okay.  I probably haven't read many. I will check them out.
Yes, Trance probably would like Dewey.  It's a lovely story.
I have ordered the Naomi Klein book  you mentioned through
Amazon.com, so it should get here in a few weeks.

I think Dev might be on to something.

Timmy was doing a column style post on UUists.

Now that Dexter has started again I'm going to be keeping that running.

Having a column style book post might be great and others could contribute what they're reading as well.

Books by atheists as well as other books of interest could be reviewed.

If you have time Philosophy you might want to give it some thought.

It's up to you.

I will be starting a thread this weekend on the book, The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout.

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[philosophy]

On Oct 2, 10:15 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 2:06 AM, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 2, 1:27 pm, Dev <thedevil...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > > I think OT threads are fine if they're marked "OT" and pertain to the
> > > interests of other posters--Trance and the TV show "Dexter", for
> > > example, which a lot of us watch. I don't know how many people have
> > > read _Dewey_, but Trance would probably be interested. :) I bring up
> > > all sorts of books here. If you've read any of the ones I've
> > > mentioned, I'd love for you to start a thread about them.
>
> > Oh, okay.  I probably haven't read many. I will check them out.
> > Yes, Trance probably would like Dewey.  It's a lovely story.
> > I have ordered the Naomi Klein book  you mentioned through
> > Amazon.com, so it should get here in a few weeks.
>
> I think Dev might be on to something.
>
> Timmy was doing a column style post on UUists.
>
> Now that Dexter has started again I'm going to be keeping that running.
>
> Having a column style book post might be great and others could contribute
> what they're reading as well.
>
> Books by atheists as well as other books of interest could be reviewed.
>
> If you have time Philosophy you might want to give it some thought.
>
> It's up to you.
>
> I will be starting a thread this weekend on the book, The Sociopath Next
> Door by Martha Stout.
>

I'll observe with interest, and maybe will take it on. We'll see.
That sounds like a great title, and very apt.

> > Just FYI, here we go again.
>

> >http://brokenrites.alphalink.com.au/nletter/page180-current-court-cas...

> ...
>
> read more »

[philosophy]

On Oct 2, 4:19 pm, hucktunes <bob.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's a Google Video of Naomi Klein talking about The Shock Doctrine.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4231109320246838401#

Thank you for that. I found it very interesting, and I would hazard a
guess
that she is closer to the truth than not.

> ...
>
> read more »

[hucktunes]

A friend saw Michael Moore's new movie Capitalism yesterday and took
all his money out of B of A and put it in the credit union that
afternoon. I'd never heard of Dead Peasants Insurance before, he
learned about it in the movie.
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Insurance/P64954.asp

> ...
>
> read more »

[Observer]

On Sep 27, 1:07 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 27, 1:30 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > > On Sep 27, 1:14 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tracey <Tracey.Maddow...@yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Do you approve it? Health care to everyone, but who's going to pay
> > for
> > > > > > it?
>

> > > > > In Canada we all do.
>
> > > > I know, you Canadians are like the French Socialist Republic. Do you
> > > > speak French?
>
> > > You do know that France is the only other country which is a Republic and
> > > structured on lines similar to the US?
>
> > > You *have* heard of the French Revolution haven't you?
>
> > Yes, I've seen Les Miserables.
>
> > > You know, when they got rid of the Monarchy and created a Secular
> > Republic
> > > just like the Americans did during with the American Revolution?
>
> > Yes, Socialist in other words.
>
> > > And the I believe the current government of France is a conservative one
> > not
> > > a left wing one.
>
> > Yes, leftist.
>
> > > You might want to brush up on your knowledge of politics before trying to
> > > start a thread discussing politics.
>
> > Politics is my game.
>
> > > And yes I speak a little French and no I'm not fluent in the language.
>
> > Good, you're still an aspiring communist.
>
> Good. You're still a complete loon. Nothing aspiring about you.


Observer
Amen Trance This broad is as full of shit as they come.

Psychonomist
>
>
>
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