Atheists hate Christmas

[Bill Bowden]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/10/atheist-group-seeks-banner-to-join-christmas-display/

In Elmwood City, Pa., the foundation has proposed hoisting a banner
that reads: "At this season of the Winter Solstice, LET REASON
PREVAIL. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell.
There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition
that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

Merry Christmas to all.

[dillan]

I think it's these kinds of antics that causes people to think
Atheists are evil.

There is no reason to get political about Christmas. Majority of
people celebrate it, so let them enjoy it without making a big fuss.
Make your political statements any other time. Don't ruin people's
holidays with political antics.

On Dec 14, 11:30 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:
> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/10/atheist-group-seeks-banner-to-jo...

[Rupert]

On Dec 15, 7:41 am, dillan <dferna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it's these kinds of antics that causes people to think
> Atheists are evil.
>
> There is no reason to get political about Christmas. Majority of
> people celebrate it, so let them enjoy it without making a big fuss.
> Make your political statements any other time. Don't ruin people's
> holidays with political antics.
>

I will be celebrating Christmas while still taking the advice on that
banner.

[dillan]

But the problem is that when they do raise banner like that, it just
starts up a whole fight, and people chose sides, dinner conversations
get heated, etc.
Atheist get to celebrate the holidays any way they want. Why ruin it
for everyone, just to make a point? There is no reason for atheists
to be that insensitive, unless you just hate people enjoying the
holiday.

[Rupert]

On Dec 15, 7:55 am, dillan <dferna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 15, 1:48 am, Rupert <rupertmccal...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 15, 7:41 am, dillan <dferna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I think it's these kinds of antics that causes people to think
> > > Atheists are evil.
>
> > > There is no reason to get political about Christmas. Majority of
> > > people celebrate it, so let them enjoy it without making a big fuss.
> > > Make your political statements any other time. Don't ruin people's
> > > holidays with political antics.
>
> > I will be celebrating Christmas while still taking the advice on that
> > banner.
>
> But the problem is that when they do raise banner like that, it just
> starts up a whole fight, and people chose sides, dinner conversations
> get heated, etc.

As happens when Catholics take pro-life positions and anti-same-sex-
marriage positions, as of course they have every right to do.

> Atheist get to celebrate the holidays any way they want. Why ruin it
> for everyone, just to make a point?  There is no reason for atheists
> to be that insensitive, unless you just hate people enjoying the
> holiday.

Well, in that case then there are plenty of things that theists should
stop saying as well. Like saying that my cousin being with her life
partner is the work of the devil. She finds that insensitive. But of
course if I were to bring that up you would start making noises about
free speech. Free speech is indeed a very fine thing; you should learn
to deal with it.

[dillan]

My issue is with the antics like raising banner criticizing Christmas,
for no other reason that it being Christmas, and to make a point.
Why? Just let people enjoy their holidays.

PS: Your cousin is not the devil In fact, she is a beautiful creation
of God. We all condemn such hateful comments.

[lawrey]

dillan,

> "so let them enjoy it without making a big fuss.
> Make your political statements any other time. Don't ruin people's
> holidays with political antics.

Without making a big fuss?? You do realise that christmas is
one of the biggest commercial enterprises on the planet and
religion makes the biggest fuss of it every year throughout the
year.

And just because some dares to say "LET REASON PREVAIL"
they are making a fuss??

More people die from overdosing and alcoholic related binging.
and heart attacks from over-eating and frolicking, than any other
time. So according to you christmas is all about party time is it?
What hypocrisy!

[xeno]

On Dec 14, 11:09 pm, dillan <dferna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My issue is with the antics like raising banner criticizing Christmas,

> for no other reason that it being Christmas ....

That's not the case. The banner doesn't even say anything about
Christmas. It starts off by saying "At the season of the Winter
Solstice...". then makes a plea for an atheistic-naturalistic view of
the world. You're protesting an opinion being made during the
Christmas season merely because it doesn't reinforce the predominate
view of things as if that view has ownership over public space.
That's really anti-democratic.

There are far bigger things for you to complain about that affects us
all. The season is totally commercialized & people are urged
constantly through mass media to spend a lot of money and that's got
to be damaging a lot of people financially and psychologically. Why is
any of that necessary? If our economy needs to do that to people what
does that say about our economic system? You should find all of that
exponentially more offensive than a banner expressing an adverse
opinion.

[Trance Gemini]

Actually we don't hate Christmas. It's a secular tradition and has been for a very long time. 

Christians just add their Christ celebrations.

Atheists ignore that part.

Merry Christmyth to all as well.

-- 

“You can safely assume you have created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates the same people you do.” --Annie Lamott (paraphrased)

"To no form of religion is woman indebted for one impulse of freedom..." --Susan B. Anthony

[Trance Gemini]

No. The problem is that anti-atheists bigots like you can't stand it when atheists express their opinions on your mythology.

And you particularly hate it when we do it publicly.

If you weren't such an anti-atheist bigot you would have not problem accepting our right to do that.

[rappoccio]

On Dec 14, 11:30 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:
> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/10/atheist-group-seeks-banner-to-jo...
>

> In Elmwood City, Pa., the foundation has proposed hoisting a banner
> that reads: "At this season of the Winter Solstice, LET REASON
> PREVAIL. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell.
> There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition
> that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."
>
> Merry Christmas to all.

A few things here...

1. There's nothing in the post you made that suggests that atheists
hate Christmas. The actual headline is "Atheist Group Seeks Banner to
Join Christmas Display". Sounds like they're interested in joining the
fun.

2. If the Christian groups are allowed to put up their decorations,
then why not everyone else? First amendment, and all that? Are you
arguing that exercising a constitutional right is equivalent to
"Hating Christmas"? Clearly if other groups are able to put up their
religious paraphernalia at this winter solstice holiday, then atheist
groups are also able to do so. I see signs like "Peace. Faith. Love"
and advertisements of God everywhere I look during the entire month of
December. The oldies stations blare religious songs, religious groups
scour my neighborhood for converts, the churches put banners up
proclaiming the birth of Jesus, etc, etc, etc. One banner proclaiming
that religion is all bunk in *THE ENTIRE COUNTRY* makes national news,
but somehow we're "hating Christmas".

3. The likelihood that Jesus was actually born on Christmas is
virtually zero, and it really was the Christians taking over pagan
holidays to begin with. So really, you have no specific rights to that
day any more than anyone else.

[Duke of Omnium]

On Dec 14, 8:30 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:
> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/10/atheist-group-seeks-banner-to-jo...
>

> In Elmwood City, Pa., the foundation has proposed hoisting a banner
> that reads: "At this season of the Winter Solstice, LET REASON
> PREVAIL. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell.
> There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition
> that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."
>
> Merry Christmas to all.

Personally, I love the thoroughly secularized holiday called
Christmas. An occasion that gets the Heat Miser on my TV is a good
occasion.

But, if christian groups want to religify, on public ground, a
wonderfully commercialized holiday, atheists have a right (and some of
us might say, a duty) to dereligify it.

[Bob T.]

On Dec 14, 10:41 pm, dillan <dferna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think it's these kinds of antics that causes people to think Atheists are evil.

Sure - similarly, shooting doctors is the kind of antic that causes
people to think theists are evil. I wonder if there is any kind of
antic that discourages people from making silly generalizations?

- Bob T

> > Merry Christmas to all.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Alexia]

Agreed

To heaven? Is that where she thinks she's going? Is she really that
sure of going to a place that isn't even on a map? And how can she be
sure she'd like it once she got there?
Jenna, The Adoration of Jenna Fox

I know not all that may be coming, but be it what it will, I'll go to
it laughing.
--Stubb in Moby Dick

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[Alexia]

Scrooge!!! Lol

To heaven? Is that where she thinks she's going? Is she really that
sure of going to a place that isn't even on a map? And how can she be
sure she'd like it once she got there?
Jenna, The Adoration of Jenna Fox

I know not all that may be coming, but be it what it will, I'll go to
it laughing.
--Stubb in Moby Dick

[LL]

On Dec 14, 10:55 pm, dillan <dferna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 15, 1:48 am, Rupert <rupertmccal...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 15, 7:41 am, dillan <dferna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I think it's these kinds of antics that causes people to think
> > > Atheists are evil.
>
> > > There is no reason to get political about Christmas. Majority of
> > > people celebrate it, so let them enjoy it without making a big fuss.
> > > Make your political statements any other time. Don't ruin people's
> > > holidays with political antics.
>
> > I will be celebrating Christmas while still taking the advice on that
> > banner.
>
> But the problem is that when they do raise banner like that, it just
> starts up a whole fight, and people chose sides, dinner conversations
> get heated, etc.
> Atheist get to celebrate the holidays any way they want.

LL. So does everybody.

Why ruin it
> for everyone, just to make a point?  There is no reason for atheists
> to be that insensitive, unless you just hate people enjoying the
> holiday.

LL. What point are atheists making except that to express their
opinion about the existence of a god? I haven't seen atheists
shooting people over it or destroying property or invading churches.
They have simply expressed an very benign opinion. I also wonder why
you don't assume that Jews, Muslims and Buddhists also "hate"
Christmas, since they also don't celebrate it. Jews and Muslims
specifically state that they don't believe in Jesus as Messiah. How
are they any different from atheists on that issue?

It is possible to have an opinion on a religion without "hating" it.
Don't you reject all other religions but your own? does that mean you
hate all the others?

.......

.........

[Timbo]

I think atheist enjoy human celebration and don't mind that what is
being celebrated is not something they believe. I view weakness in the
Christian faith when the faithful wake-up on Christmas morning with
thoughts of themselves and family instead of Jesus. The same goes for
the weeks leading up to, the shopping, the food prep, the invites.
They should live in their delusion and enjoy it. Pleases take mass
transit or call an atheist friend and don't drive, you scare me when
your head is elsewhere. I think that all humans would be better served
if they set aside a period of delusional existence rather than trying
to work it into day to day associations that may effect others.

[Neil Kelsey]

On Dec 14, 8:30 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:
> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/10/atheist-group-seeks-banner-to-jo...
>

> In Elmwood City, Pa., the foundation has proposed hoisting a banner
> that reads: "At this season of the Winter Solstice, LET REASON
> PREVAIL.

I agree with them.

> There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell.
> There is only our natural world.

Couldn't agree more.

> Religion is but myth and superstition
> that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

I know what they mean.

> Merry Christmas to all.

And happy Festivus to the rest of us!

[Jelrak TB]

On Dec 14, 11:41 pm, dillan <dferna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it's these kinds of antics that causes people to think
> Atheists are evil.
>
> There is no reason to get political about Christmas. Majority of
> people celebrate it, so let them enjoy it without making a big fuss.
> Make your political statements any other time. Don't ruin people's
> holidays with political antics.
>

I don't get it. In the other thread you were complaining that atheists
don't go out and do anything concrete about things, but just sit
around complaining. Now here is a group doing something concrete and
you are annoyed? Which one bothers you more?

[Bill Bowden]

On Dec 15, 4:11 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Bill Bowden <
>

> bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> wrote:
>
> >http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/10/atheist-group-seeks-banner-to-jo...
>

> > In Elmwood City, Pa., the foundation has proposed hoisting a banner
> > that reads: "At this season of the Winter Solstice, LET REASON
> > PREVAIL. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell.
> > There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition
> > that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."
>
> > Merry Christmas to all.

>
> Actually we don't hate Christmas. It's a secular tradition and has been for
> a very long time.
>
> Christians just add their Christ celebrations.
>
> Atheists ignore that part.
>

Seems Atheists are activists demanding expression of their non-
religious views to gain recognition. How come they don't put up
banners disclaiming Santa Claus and ruin the holiday for the kids as
well? You like telling adults there is no God, why not tell the kids
there is no Santa?

-Bill

[Rupert]

It's not criticising Christmas.

[Frederick]

I view those people the way I view the guy who shot the abortion
doctor or jihadists. A rather extreme minorty who over-react in an
inappropriate manner.
In defense of athiests, I've never heard of people killing others in
the name of Non-God.

On Dec 14, 8:30 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:
> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/10/atheist-group-seeks-banner-to-jo...
>

[Trance Gemini]

Wonderful analogy.

Who says there's no Santa? Evidence below.

[Bob T.]

On Dec 15, 8:24 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:

> there is no Santa?d

Wow! I've been telling people for years that believing in God is just
like believing in Santa Claus, but I didn't expect that to be
confirmed by such a staunch theist!

Yes, Bill, adults believing in God, Jesus and eternal life is very
much like kids believing in Santa Claus. If only you theists were as
harmless as children, it would be safe to allow you to go on living in
your fantasy world.

- Bob T

[Bill Bowden]

Yes, but Atheist protesters trying to gain recognition seem to be
attacking other cities now. Sort of "in your face" wouldn't you say?
Why can't they just leave the Christians alone to enjoy themselves?

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2011-12/66798254.jpg

-Bill

[xeno]

On Dec 15, 8:24 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:

> You like telling adults there is no God, why not tell the kids
> there is no Santa?

Because adults should know better, whereas kids have a limited
understanding, for starters.

[Bill Bowden]

Sure, but atheists frequently point out theism is learned early in
life, just like Santa Claus. What is the difference of teaching
religion or Santa Claus to little kids?

-Bill

[Neil Kelsey]

On Dec 17, 10:00 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>

wrote:
> On Dec 17, 7:54 pm, xeno <69black...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 15, 8:24 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
> > wrote:
>
> > >  You like telling adults there is no God, why not tell the kids
> > > there is no Santa?
>
> > Because adults should know better, whereas kids have a limited
> > understanding, for starters.
>
> Sure, but atheists frequently point out theism is learned early in
> life, just like Santa Claus. What is the difference of teaching
> religion or Santa Claus to little kids?

Ummm...doesn't "Santa Claus" translate as Saint Nicholas"? Isn't that
religious anyway? Doesn't that make teaching Santa Claus the same as
teaching religion? Personally, I regard Santa Claus as training wheels
for God and I told my daughters that Santa is make-believe.

[zencycle]

On Dec 17, 9:28 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:
>

> Yes, but Atheist protesters trying to gain recognition seem to be
> attacking other cities now.

atheists are "attacking"?

> Sort of "in your face" wouldn't you say?

No more than the prosletyzers I have to throw off my porch every few
weeks.

> Why can't they just leave the Christians alone to enjoy themselves?

Because invariably, when you leave a religious zealot on his "own" to
"enjoy" himself, there ends up being a body count.

[Neil Kelsey]

10

[LL]

On Dec 15, 8:24 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:

LL. Even better would be to not tell little kids about Santa in the
first place, or, at least explain to them what a legend is.

I haven't heard about atheists telling little kids anything about
Santa. Most simply don't comment on it and let them have their fun.
What does Santa have to do with the birth of Jesus and Christmas
celebrations, anyway? Can you explain that? Could you explain it to a
little kid without lying?

,,,,,,
>
> -Bill

[LL]

On Dec 17, 6:28 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>

wrote:
> On Dec 16, 5:22 am, "Bob T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 15, 8:24 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Seems Atheists are activists demanding expression of their non-
> > > religious views to gain recognition. How come they don't put up
> > > banners disclaiming Santa Claus and ruin the holiday for the kids as
> > > well? You like telling adults there is no God, why not tell the kids
> > > there is no Santa?d
>
> > Wow!  I've been telling people for years that believing in God is just
> > like believing in Santa Claus, but I didn't expect that to be
> > confirmed by such a staunch theist!
>
> > Yes, Bill, adults believing in God, Jesus and eternal life is very
> > much like kids believing in Santa Claus.  If only you theists were as
> > harmless as children, it would be safe to allow you to go on living in
> > your fantasy world.
>
> Yes, but Atheist protesters trying to gain recognition seem to be
> attacking other cities now. Sort of "in your face" wouldn't you say?
> Why can't they just leave the Christians alone to enjoy themselves?

LL. We're very happy to let Christians enjoy themselves as long as
they do it on private property. There are plenty of places for
Christians to celebrate Christmas without going into the public square
to do it and, worse, expecting the government to help them celebrate
and advance their religion--and shut everyone else out in the
process. That's all that atheists are asking for, yet Christians want
to make a war out of it. If they really cared about the spirit of
Christmas, they'd spread good cheer to everyone and stop acting as if
non believers are out to crush their celebrations. Nothing could be
further from the truth. But, of course, to accuse non believers of
trying to ruin their celebrations is such a good dramatic story,
isn't it?
>
> http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2011-12/66798254.jpg
>
> -Bill

[Bill Bowden]

Not as dramatic as Atheists taking over 18 of 21 available plots for
Xmas displays in Santa Monica, leaving the Christians with only
three.

http://susanflutterbys.blogspot.com/2011/12/atheists-hijack-santa-monicas-christmas.html

"Atheist groups objected to use of the park by churches to espouse a
religious message and applied to the city of Santa Monica for their
own spaces.

Officials used a lottery to dole out spots in the prime location along
Ocean Avenue. The atheists turned out to be the lucky ones: Of the 21
plots in the park open for displays, they won 18. The Nativity story
that once took 14 displays to tell — from the Annunciation, continuing
to the manger in Bethlehem and onto infant Jesus' journey to Egypt and
back to Nazareth — had to be abridged to three and crammed into two
plots."

Looks like a war to me, and the Atheists won.

-Bill

[Duke of Omnium]

Well, if you're going to enter lotteries, you shouldn't whine when
they come up against you.

On Dec 19, 8:31 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>

wrote:
> On Dec 19, 11:58 am, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 6:28 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Yes, but Atheist protesters trying to gain recognition seem to be
> > > attacking other cities now. Sort of "in your face" wouldn't you say?
> > > Why can't they just leave the Christians alone to enjoy themselves?
>
> > LL.  We're very happy to let Christians enjoy themselves as long as
> > they do it on private property. There are plenty of places for
> > Christians to celebrate Christmas without going into the public square
> > to do it and, worse, expecting the government to help them celebrate
> > and advance their religion--and shut everyone else out in the
> > process.  That's all that atheists are asking for, yet Christians want
> > to make a war out of it. If they really cared about the spirit of
> > Christmas, they'd spread good cheer to everyone and stop acting as if
> > non believers are out to crush their celebrations. Nothing could be
> > further from the truth. But, of course, to accuse non believers of
> > trying to ruin their celebrations is such a good dramatic  story,
> > isn't it?
>
> Not as dramatic as Atheists taking over 18 of 21 available plots for
> Xmas displays in Santa Monica, leaving the Christians with only
> three.
>

> http://susanflutterbys.blogspot.com/2011/12/atheists-hijack-santa-mon...

[LL]

On Dec 19, 8:31 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>

wrote:
> On Dec 19, 11:58 am, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 6:28 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Yes, but Atheist protesters trying to gain recognition seem to be
> > > attacking other cities now. Sort of "in your face" wouldn't you say?
> > > Why can't they just leave the Christians alone to enjoy themselves?
>
> > LL.  We're very happy to let Christians enjoy themselves as long as
> > they do it on private property. There are plenty of places for
> > Christians to celebrate Christmas without going into the public square
> > to do it and, worse, expecting the government to help them celebrate
> > and advance their religion--and shut everyone else out in the
> > process.  That's all that atheists are asking for, yet Christians want
> > to make a war out of it. If they really cared about the spirit of
> > Christmas, they'd spread good cheer to everyone and stop acting as if
> > non believers are out to crush their celebrations. Nothing could be
> > further from the truth. But, of course, to accuse non believers of
> > trying to ruin their celebrations is such a good dramatic  story,
> > isn't it?
>
> Not as dramatic as Atheists taking over 18 of 21 available plots for
> Xmas displays in Santa Monica, leaving the Christians with only
> three.
>

> http://susanflutterbys.blogspot.com/2011/12/atheists-hijack-santa-mon...

>
> "Atheist groups objected to use of the park by churches to espouse a
> religious message and applied to the city of Santa Monica for their
> own spaces.
>
> Officials used a lottery to dole out spots in the prime location along
> Ocean Avenue. The atheists turned out to be the lucky ones: Of the 21
> plots in the park open for displays, they won 18.  The Nativity story
> that once took 14 displays to tell — from the Annunciation, continuing
> to the manger in Bethlehem and onto infant Jesus' journey to Egypt and
> back to Nazareth — had to be abridged to three and crammed into two
> plots."
>
> Looks like a war to me, and the Atheists won.
>

LL. It's war to win a lottery?

Was it war when Christians had all the spots every year before this?

You have an interesting definition of war.

..........
> -Bill

[JTB]

I guess God loved the atheists more, huh?

[Bill Bowden]

On Dec 19, 10:23 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Dec 19, 8:31 pm, Bill Bowden
>

> > Looks like a war to me, and the Atheists won.

>
> LL. It's war to win a lottery?
>
> Was it war when Christians had all the spots every year before this?
>
> You have an interesting definition of war.
>

It's easy to win a lottery if you buy enough tickets.

Why do you suppose 15 of the Atheist spaces have nothing but an empty
lot and a security fence to display? And many of the Atheist
applicants were organized from outside the city. Seems all they want
to do is run the Christians out of town.

-Bill

[LL]

On Dec 20, 7:20 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:

LL. No, they're just making a point that should be made.

.......

.....
>
> -Bill

[Bill Bowden]

And the point is Atheists have only complaints, and nothing of value
or interest to say.

-Bill

[Bob T.]

On Dec 21, 7:40 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>

Thanks, Bill. Merry Christmas to you, too.

- Bob T
>
> -Bill- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[rappoccio]

On Dec 21, 10:40 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>

I think that's more than a little unfair, Bill.

[JTB]

And you come here to read all of this uninteresting stuff because...?

[Bill Bowden]

It's no more unfair than a group of Atheists taking over public
property to push religious groups out. And most of the atheist space
remains unused with nothing to say, other than "keep out".

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/us/santa-monica-nativity-scenes-replaced-by-atheists.html

“Rather than use it to put forth a message of their own, they’ve
really shown that their goal is just an effort to take something away
rather than give anything to the community,” Mr. Jameson said.
“They’re trying to censor something that the community has clearly
shown it appreciates.”

-Bill

[Trance Gemini]

I think you've got it backwards Bill.

How is having atheist scenes "censoring" Christians?

When atheists couldn't have their displays, *that* was censorship.

[Bill Bowden]

> >http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/us/santa-monica-nativity-scenes-rep...

>
> > “Rather than use it to put forth a message of their own, they’ve
> > really shown that their goal is just an effort to take something away
> > rather than give anything to the community,” Mr. Jameson said.
> > “They’re trying to censor something that the community has clearly
> > shown it appreciates.”

>
> I think you've got it backwards Bill.
>
> How is having atheist scenes "censoring" Christians?
>
> When atheists couldn't have their displays, *that* was censorship.
>

And when was that? The fact is, Atheists had access to all the space
eleven months out of the year and never used any of it. And when they
did get the space, they have nothing to say other than "keep out, and
God is a myth".

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/12/atheists-takes-santa-monica-nativity-scenes-spots-in-park.html

"The truth is this: The Nativity Scenes Committee has no objection to
displays anyone else puts up under the rules that disagree with ours.
That is fine. That is the American way of free speech and fair play.
Unlike our opponents, we are not trying to push anyone out of
Palisades Park. There is plenty of room for all the displays that ever
have been erected at Christmas, including this year."

-Bill

[Eris]

Bill, how is the truth hatred?

[Trance Gemini]

When they weren't given access to putting up displays at Christmas time.

Atheists have never tried to stop Christians or any of the other religious groups from putting up displays.

We are simply asserting our right to do so as well.

 

The fact is, Atheists had access to all the space
eleven months out of the year and never used any of it. And when they
did get the space, they have nothing to say other than "keep out, and
God is a myth".

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/12/atheists-takes-santa-monica-nativity-scenes-spots-in-park.html

"The truth is this: The Nativity Scenes Committee has no objection to
displays anyone else puts up under the rules that disagree with ours.
That is fine. That is the American way of free speech and fair play.
Unlike our opponents, we are not trying to push anyone out of
Palisades Park. There is plenty of room for all the displays that ever
have been erected at Christmas, including this year."

-Bill

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[Trance Gemini]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/atheists-threaten-legal-action-if-anti-god-sign-isnt-posted-next-to-michigan-nativity/ 

[TLC]

Let's get some things right. The only people who have ever banned
christmas and who are still against yuletide celebrations; They were
Christians!

"In 1644 Oliver Cromwell, supported by his christian Puritan forces,
enforced an Act of Parliament banning Christmas celebrations.
Christmas was regarded by the Puritans as a wasteful festival that
threatened core Christian beliefs. Consequently, all activities
relating to Christmas, including attending mass, were forbidden. Not
surprisingly, the ban was hugely unpopular and many people continued
to celebrate Christmas secretly.

The Puritan War on Christmas lasted until 1660. Under the
Commonwealth, mince pies, holly and other popular customs fell victim
to the spirited Puritan attempt to eradicate every last remnant of
merrymaking during the Christmas period.

In January 1645 parliament enlisted the help of a group of ministers
to create a Directory of Public Worship establishing a new
organisation of the church and new forms of worship that were to be
adopted and followed in both England and Wales. According to the
Directory, the population was to strictly observe Sundays as holy days
and were not to recognise other festival days, including Christmas,
since they had no biblical justification.

Parliamentary legislation embraced the Directory of Public Worship as
the only legal form of worship allowed in England and Wales. Two years
later Parliament reinstated the law by passing an Ordinance affirming
the abolition of the feasts of Christmas, Easter and Whitsun.

Once Charles II was restored to the throne, all legislation banning
Christmas -- enforced from 1642 to 1660 -- was dropped and the common
people were once again allowed to mark the Twelve Days of Christmas.
Old traditions were revived with renewed enthusiasm and Christmas was
celebrated throughout the country as both a religious and secular
festival. "

What happened to these misable and fanatical christian Puritans?
Well, they wanted their own religious state and with this ideal some
moved to America.







On Dec 18, 2:28 am, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:

[Trance Gemini]

And once in America, the Puritans who were the Pilgrims banned Christmas celebrations there.

In Boston where Christmas was officially outlawed people would be fined 5 shillings for spreading Christmas joy.

Christmas was restored to America after the American Revolutions (by all of those Deist and atheist Founding Fathers no less).

And was established as a holiday tradition of peace as a result of the social and civil unrest in the early 19th century which pitted the Industrial working classes against the wealthy.

http://www.thehistoryofchristmas.com/ch/in_america.htm 

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[Bill Bowden]

On Dec 24, 4:54 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Bill Bowden <
>>

>> And when was that?

>
> When they weren't given access to putting up displays at Christmas
time.
>
> Atheists have never tried to stop Christians or any of the other
religious
> groups from putting up displays.
>
> We are simply asserting our right to do so as well.
>

Problem is, in Santa Monica, Atheists are simply taking property to
stop Christians from putting up Xmas displays. You can disagree all
you want, but any sensible reader of this thread knows exactly what
the Atheists are doing. There is no contest, the atheists are simply
attacking the Christians with nothing of their own to say, and
everybody knows that.

-Bill

[LL]

On Dec 26, 7:05 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:

LL. Atheists have plenty to say and they're saying it, finally.

If the atheists are attacking Christians, then, by the same token,
Christians must have been attacking everyone who is not a Christian
from time immemorial with every Christian display they put up,
including crosses, streetcorner preachers, television and radio
programs, movies and boooks that give a Christian perspective or that
are downright efforts at proselytizing. If expressing one's opinion
about religion is "attacking" those who think differently, then it's
an attack no matter who's making the statement. You're the pot calling
the kettle black.

.........


.......
>
> -Bill

[Trance Gemini]

Atheists are simply taking property for their displays much like the Christians have done for years.

There is no intent to prevent Christians from displaying unlike the activity of Christians for years.

Believe what you want. Those are the facts.

[Bill Bowden]

On Dec 27, 3:28 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Bill Bowden <
>

>> Problem is, in Santa Monica, Atheists are simply taking property
to
>> stop Christians from putting up Xmas displays. You can disagree
all
>> you want, but any sensible reader of this thread knows exactly
what
>> the Atheists are doing. There is no contest, the atheists are
simply
>> attacking the Christians with nothing of their own to say, and
>> everybody knows that.
>


> Atheists are simply taking property for their displays much like
the
> Christians have done for years.
>
> There is no intent to prevent Christians from displaying unlike the
> activity of Christians for years.
>
> Believe what you want. Those are the facts.
>
> --

Unsupported facts. Do you have any evidence Atheists were denied equal
Xmas display space in Santa Monica in the past? I have cited several
references, and you have cited nothing but your opinion.

-Bill

[Bill Bowden]

And exactly, what do the atheists have to say? A bunch of empty lots
wasting space where something interesting could have been said? They
could have used the space to display the evolution of man and the
universe, or the advantages of solar power, or any number of
interesting things, but they choose to just leave the space vacant
because they had nothing of interest to say, other than they don't
like Christians.

-Bill

[LL]

On Dec 27, 7:13 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>

LL.I doubt they "chose" to say nothing. They were probably as
surprised as anyone that they won the lottery. I expect they were
taken off guard. They could easily have put something up that would
have been offensive to Christians, but they didn't. You make a big
mistake when you assume that atheists will be as disturbing and in-
your-face as Christians so often show themselves to be.

.......


>
>

On Dec 27, 7:13 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>

[Trance Gemini]

I'm not just talking about Santa Monica and I believe I did post at least one link which indicated that had been the case elsewhere.

[Bill Bowden]

On Dec 27, 10:06 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:

>
> LL.I doubt they "chose" to say nothing. They were probably as
> surprised as anyone that they won the lottery. I expect they were
> taken off guard. They could easily have put something up that would
> have been offensive to Christians, but they didn't. You make a big
> mistake when you assume that atheists will be as disturbing and in-
> your-face as Christians so often show themselves to be.
>
> .......
>

The atheists did put up something offensive to Christians. I think 3
atheists spaces were used to discredit Christianity, which was the
only purpose they had. The situation will be interesting next year
when the dust settles, and both sides have time to rethink the
situation. As for Christians using in-your-face tactics against
atheists, do you have some examples? I'm interested.

http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-los-angeles/what-photo

-Bill

[LL]

On Dec 19, 8:31 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:
> On Dec 19, 11:58 am, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 6:28 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>

> > wrote:
>
> > > Yes, but Atheist protesters trying to gain recognition seem to be
> > > attacking other cities now. Sort of "in your face" wouldn't you say?
> > > Why can't they just leave the Christians alone to enjoy themselves?
>

> > LL.  We're very happy to let Christians enjoy themselves as long as
> > they do it on private property. There are plenty of places for
> > Christians to celebrate Christmas without going into the public square
> > to do it and, worse, expecting the government to help them celebrate
> > and advance their religion--and shut everyone else out in the
> > process.  That's all that atheists are asking for, yet Christians want
> > to make a war out of it. If they really cared about the spirit of
> > Christmas, they'd spread good cheer to everyone and stop acting as if
> > non believers are out to crush their celebrations. Nothing could be
> > further from the truth. But, of course, to accuse non believers of
> > trying to ruin their celebrations is such a good dramatic  story,
> > isn't it?
>
> Not as dramatic as Atheists taking over 18 of 21 available plots for
> Xmas displays in Santa Monica, leaving the Christians with only
> three.

LL: How did they "take them over"?
>
> http://susanflutterbys.blogspot.com/2011/12/atheists-hijack-santa-mon...

>
> "Atheist groups objected to use of the park by churches to espouse a
> religious message and applied to the city of Santa Monica for their
> own spaces.
>
> Officials used a lottery to dole out spots in the prime location along
> Ocean Avenue. The atheists turned out to be the lucky ones: Of the 21
> plots in the park open for displays, they won 18.  The Nativity story
> that once took 14 displays to tell — from the Annunciation, continuing
> to the manger in Bethlehem and onto infant Jesus' journey to Egypt and
> back to Nazareth — had to be abridged to three and crammed into two
> plots."

LL: Oh, the poor dears. For the first time they've had the least bit
of competition. It doesn't sound to me as if the atheist "took over"
the spaces. They won them fair and square. If you won a lottery, would
you think it was ok for people to say you "took it over"?

>
> Looks like a war to me, and the Atheists won.

LL If they won, they deserved to win. What did you call it when it was
reserved for churches and nobody could make a statement that wasn't
Christian? Was that "taking over"?


*******
>
> -Bill

[LL]

On Dec 21, 7:40 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>

LL: And now the Christians have only complaints. Many people think
they never had anything of value or interest to say. But they made
sure they were the only ones who had a chance to display their belief
system. That's what we call Christian fairness.


******
>

[LL]

On Dec 28, 7:36 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>
wrote:

LL: Since you seem to be familiar with Santa Monica, you must have
noticed the street corner preachers setting up loudspeakers on the
Third Street Mall to harangue people, saying they must repent or go to
hell, not just atheists, of course, but anyone who comes along.

Every Christian display on public land is an in-your-face effort to
get people to hear about or notice their religion whether they want to
or not.

*****


>
> http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-los-angeles/what-photo
>
> -Bill

[Trance Gemini]

Since when is disagreeing with the religious "insulting". Ever heard of free speech?

By that argument the religious insult atheists every day of our lives.

[Bill Bowden]

On Dec 29, 4:00 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 10:36 PM, Bill Bowden <
>
>
>
> bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> wrote:
> > On Dec 27, 10:06 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >  > LL.I doubt they "chose" to say nothing. They were probably as
> >  > surprised as anyone that they won the lottery. I expect they were
> >  > taken off guard. They could easily have put something up that would
> >  > have been offensive to Christians, but they didn't. You make a big
> >  > mistake when you assume that atheists will be as disturbing and in-
> >  > your-face as Christians so often show themselves to be.
>
> >  > .......
>
> > The atheists did put up something offensive to Christians. I think 3
> > atheists spaces were used to discredit Christianity, which was the
> > only purpose they had. The situation will be interesting next year
> > when the dust settles, and both sides have time to rethink the
> > situation. As for Christians using in-your-face tactics against
> > atheists, do you have some examples? I'm interested.
>
> >http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-los-angeles/what-photo
>
> Since when is disagreeing with the religious "insulting". Ever heard of
> free speech?
>
> By that argument the religious insult atheists every day of our lives.
>

Can you cite some examples of religious people insulting atheists? I
may agree with you, but would like to see some evidence. As for Santa
Monica, looks like public opinion is running 86% in favor of the Xmas
displays which may be a problem for city council members running for
re-election next year.

http://santamonica.patch.com/articles/poll-room-for-jesus-only-petition-urges-nativity-return-at-park

-Bill

[Trance Gemini]

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 10:49 PM, Bill Bowden <bpe...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> wrote:

On Dec 29, 4:00 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 10:36 PM, Bill Bowden <
>
>
>

> bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> wrote:
> > On Dec 27, 10:06 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >  > LL.I doubt they "chose" to say nothing. They were probably as
> >  > surprised as anyone that they won the lottery. I expect they were
> >  > taken off guard. They could easily have put something up that would
> >  > have been offensive to Christians, but they didn't. You make a big
> >  > mistake when you assume that atheists will be as disturbing and in-
> >  > your-face as Christians so often show themselves to be.
>
> >  > .......
>
> > The atheists did put up something offensive to Christians. I think 3
> > atheists spaces were used to discredit Christianity, which was the
> > only purpose they had. The situation will be interesting next year
> > when the dust settles, and both sides have time to rethink the
> > situation. As for Christians using in-your-face tactics against
> > atheists, do you have some examples? I'm interested.
>
> >http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-los-angeles/what-photo
>
> Since when is disagreeing with the religious "insulting". Ever heard of
> free speech?
>
> By that argument the religious insult atheists every day of our lives.
>

Can you cite some examples of religious people insulting atheists?

According to you expressing disagreement would be insulting.

It happens here every day.

It happens in life every day.

Do you really need a cite?

 

I
may agree with you, but would like to see some evidence. As for Santa
Monica, looks like public opinion is running 86% in favor of the Xmas
displays which may be a problem for city council members running for
re-election next year.

http://santamonica.patch.com/articles/poll-room-for-jesus-only-petition-urges-nativity-return-at-park

-Bill

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[Eris]

Christians kill atheist babies and drink their blood.

On Wednesday, December 14, 2011 11:30:09 PM UTC-5, Bill Bowden wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/10/atheist-group-seeks-banner-to-join-christmas-display/

In Elmwood City, Pa., the foundation has proposed hoisting a banner
that reads: "At this season of the Winter Solstice, LET REASON
PREVAIL. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell.
There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition
that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

Merry Christmas to all.

[TLC]

"If religious people could be reasoned with there would be no
religious people."

On Jan 1, 1:07 am, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Christians kill atheist babies and drink their blood.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2011 11:30:09 PM UTC-5, Bill Bowden wrote:
>

> >http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/10/atheist-group-seeks-banner-to-jo...

[Eric Griswold, R.C.]

Christmas is fun! It is the most psychedelic holiday.
All those blinky colored lights....
A guy is flying around in the sky, with animals.....
Elves!
All those bells, bells, bells....
People see a star in the sky that leads them around....
A chick has a kid but it's not her old mans', she tells him she like
wasn't with anybody, dude....
Then all these animals start talking....
I've got the munchies, time to eat a big meal and play with little
shiny things around a big tree... a tree that is, like, indoors!


However you take it, hope you enjoyed it!













On Dec 14 2011, 10:30 pm, Bill Bowden

[Bill Bowden]

On Dec 30 2011, 3:38 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Well, I doubt real Christians use in-your-face tactics to promote
their cause. Please cite evidence if you have any.

-Bill

[Bill Bowden]

I haven't visited SM in many years. I live in Anaheim near Disneyland.

And no credible preacher would harass the public with claims of going
to hell for not agreeing with them. The idea is absurd. And the SM
Nativity Scene had nothing to do with hell. It was simply a story of
the birth of Christ.

As for in-your-face tactics, the Rose Parade in Pasadena today had
a few protesters:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/01/rose-parade-occupy-protest-smaller-crowd.html

"The parade was punctuated this year by a demonstration by hundreds of
members of the group Occupy the Rose Parade carrying signs to draw
attention to their cause of income inequality. They marched at the end
of the parade with an Occupy Octopus float constructed of plastic
bags.

Reaction was mixed: A group of onlookers on an apartment balcony
cheered and waved, while some people in the grandstands booed. One man
walked past some protesters and said, "You guys had your 15 minutes."

Some of the onlookers yelled "Get a Job".

-Bill

[LL]

On Jan 2, 8:40 pm, Bill Bowden <bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info>

LL. Then you don't know what you're missing. it's an amazing place.

>
> And no credible preacher would harass the public with claims of going
> to hell for not agreeing with them.

LL. That's a typical tactic of theists, especially Christians. If
someone does something you don't particularly approve of that person
is simply "not credible". If a person claims to be a Christian and
preaches on a street corner, he's as credible as anyone intil he's
shown, with evidence, to be a fraud.

The idea is absurd. And the SM
> Nativity Scene had nothing to do with hell. It was simply a story of
> the birth of Christ.

LL. It's also the story of one religion that has never shown that
it's any better than any bother religion. The government, including
municipal governments are not supposed to allow public land to be used
for proselytizing, no matter how benign you claim your brand to be.
There is no shortage of church property to tell their story if that's
what Christians wish to do. In Santa Monica, especially, there's a
church on nearly every corner. But they insist on "telling their
story" on publicly-owned property that belongs to the public, believer
and non-believer alike, and there is a Constitutional amendment
against it.

>
> As for in-your-face tactics, the Rose Parade in Pasadena today had
> a few protesters:
>

> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/01/rose-parade-occupy-prot...

>
> "The parade was punctuated this year by a demonstration by hundreds of
> members of the group Occupy the Rose Parade carrying signs to draw
> attention to their cause of income inequality. They marched at the end
> of the parade with an Occupy Octopus float constructed of plastic
> bags.

LL. There is no law that I know of that would prevent them from
demonstrating at a public venue. They have the right to peaceably
assemble, in case you've forgotten the Bill of Rights. No matter how
ugly the signs, they broke no law by carrying them. It's free speech--
and the weren't proselytizing a religion.

>
> Reaction was mixed:  A group of onlookers on an apartment balcony
> cheered and waved, while some people in the grandstands booed. One man
> walked past some protesters and said, "You guys had your 15 minutes."
>
> Some of the onlookers yelled "Get a Job".

LL. All of which was perfectly legal and Constitutional.

.......
>
> -Bill

[Trance Gemini]

Do I have to cite evidence of Christians going door to door or standing on street corners and imposing their beliefs on people?

Do I have to cite evidence of Christians inappropriately proselytizing in the work place?

Do I have to cite evidence of Christians lobbying illegally to influence laws?

Come on Bill. All of that is known in the public domain.

--

"Heaven No! I Won't Go!" --Neil Kelsey

“You can safely assume you have created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates the same people you do.” --Annie Lamott (paraphrased)

"To no form of religion is woman indebted for one impulse of freedom..." --Susan B. Anthony

http://newatheism.blogspot.com/

[Trance Gemini]

As a public supporter of the Occupy Movement I say Good For Them!

And may I remind you that the First Amendment gives them that right.

The Constitution does not give the religious the right to impose their views on the state and laws.

It gives the religious the right to hold their views and express them.

--

"Heaven No! I Won't Go!" --Neil Kelsey

“You can safely assume you have created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates the same people you do.” --Annie Lamott (paraphrased)

"To no form of religion is woman indebted for one impulse of freedom..." --Susan B. Anthony

http://newatheism.blogspot.com/

[Bill Bowden]

On Jan 3, 4:19 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 11:40 PM, Bill Bowden <
>
>
>
> bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> wrote:
>
> > And no credible preacher would harass the public with claims of going
> > to hell for not agreeing with them. The idea is absurd. And the SM
> > Nativity Scene had nothing to do with hell. It was simply a story of
> > the birth of Christ.
>
> > As for in-your-face tactics, the Rose Parade in Pasadena today had
> > a few protesters:
>

> >http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/01/rose-parade-occupy-prot...

>

> As a public supporter of the Occupy Movement I say Good For Them!
>
> And may I remind you that the First Amendment gives them that
right.
>
> The Constitution does not give the religious the right to impose
their
> views on the state and laws.
>

Does the First Amendment also allow the news media to shut off the TV
cameras when they feel the content is no longer interesting?

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2012/01/occupy_the_rose_parade_5000_protesters_giant_octopus_fail_to_make_live_tv.php

"Apparently the 70-foot octopus float carried by an estimated 5,000
Occupy L.A. protesters at the end of today's Rose Parade wasn't
awesome enough for KTLA, the premiere local station covering the
event."

"Reporters gushed over marching bands, floral arrangements and even a
police horse brigade led by LAPD Chief Charlie Beck. But after float
No. 43 had passed the finish line, the cameras shut off."

-Bill

[Trance Gemini]

On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 12:10 AM, Bill Bowden <bpe...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> wrote:

On Jan 3, 4:19 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 11:40 PM, Bill Bowden <
>
>
>

> bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> wrote:
>
> > And no credible preacher would harass the public with claims of going
> > to hell for not agreeing with them. The idea is absurd. And the SM
> > Nativity Scene had nothing to do with hell. It was simply a story of
> > the birth of Christ.
>
> > As for in-your-face tactics, the Rose Parade in Pasadena today had
> > a few protesters:
>

> >http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/01/rose-parade-occupy-prot...

>

 > As a public supporter of the Occupy Movement I say Good For Them!
 >
 > And may I remind you that the First Amendment gives them that
right.
 >
 > The Constitution does not give the religious the right to impose
their
 > views on the state and laws.
 >

Does the First Amendment also allow the news media to shut off the TV
cameras when they feel the content is no longer interesting?

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2012/01/occupy_the_rose_parade_5000_protesters_giant_octopus_fail_to_make_live_tv.php

Sure it does but that doesn't mean it isn't sleazy of them to do so.

 

"Apparently the 70-foot octopus float carried by an estimated 5,000
Occupy L.A. protesters at the end of today's Rose Parade wasn't
awesome enough for KTLA, the premiere local station covering the
event."

"Reporters gushed over marching bands, floral arrangements and even a
police horse brigade led by LAPD Chief Charlie Beck. But after float
No. 43 had passed the finish line, the cameras shut off."

-Bill

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