details on small metal lathe?

[Jim S]

Does anyone know the model of the small metal lathe?  I am looking for the size of the hole in the spindle and length of bed.  I need to cut threads on the end of a shaft and need to figure out if it will fit.  And, now that I think about it, if it has gears for threading - I went to the recent lathe demo but can't remember. I can look when I am at the space but if someone knows that's even better.  BTW, I would be willing to help get some of this type info on the equipment page...

[Travis Megee]

It's a Taig Micro Lathe and I don't believe it has gears for threading.  Keith can definitely give you more detailed information if needed.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 7:48 AM Jim S <jimski...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone know the model of the small metal lathe?  I am looking for the size of the hole in the spindle and length of bed.  I need to cut threads on the end of a shaft and need to figure out if it will fit.  And, now that I think about it, if it has gears for threading - I went to the recent lathe demo but can't remember. I can look when I am at the space but if someone knows that's even better.  BTW, I would be willing to help get some of this type info on the equipment page...

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[Keith Rogers]

Spindle through hole is 0.343 inches diameter.  This only way to cut threads is to place stock in the spindle and use a button die on the end and turn by hand.  There is a button die holder accessories that mounts on the tailstock for straight threads, but no gearing for holding a traditional ratio of spindle to carriage motion needed for normal lathe threading.  Model is a TAIG Microlathe II.  Specs are here:

http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html

Sent from my mobile device

On Dec 2, 2016, at 7:48 AM, Jim S <jimski...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone know the model of the small metal lathe?  I am looking for the size of the hole in the spindle and length of bed.  I need to cut threads on the end of a shaft and need to figure out if it will fit.  And, now that I think about it, if it has gears for threading - I went to the recent lathe demo but can't remember. I can look when I am at the space but if someone knows that's even better.  BTW, I would be willing to help get some of this type info on the equipment page...

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[Jim S]

Thanks for the info.  As I thought this is  way too small.  And I need to actually cut the threads so they are aligned well.  I already did the die method and ended up with the threads _slightly_ out of line.  Hoping to cut the threads ever so slightly smaller to straighten them out.  Or I might be able to get a new part and cut new threads.  And I need about twice as big a through hole...

[Jim S]

I have another project with much smaller parts so am giving the lathe another look.  According to the data sheet this lathe can "hog" 1/8" cuts in steel but realize that is sales sheet bragging and not realistic in normal use.  Still, I did some fooling with it last night and could take only very, very light cuts without it stalling and the belt slipping (and then quickly turning it off - didn't seem to hurt the belt).  The cutter mounted didn't look too good so I tried a different one with not much better results.  Is this thing really capable of steel?  I realize I need to take light cuts...  Part of the problem was the 3 jaw chuck.  I only found one of the rod wrenches and used a drill bit for the other one but I thought I got reasonable torque on it.  Now that I think about it I should have reversed the jaws to get a longer clamping area.  Wasn't able to find any cutting oil either which didn't help.  Material was a scrap of 1/2 water pipe about 2" long.  I suppose support for the end would have helped but I didn't find anything like a live or dead center.  I did find one thing I think is a center support - would support the center of a long part - but part wasn't long enough to use it.  I'm not blaming it all on the equipment - I probably was doing a number of things wrong or at least not the best way.  Any advice?

[Keith Rogers]

Jim - I wouldn't hesitate to get the carbide insert, 1/4" cutters.  I have a set from littlemachineshop and they work well.  You can generally cut deeper with them than with HSS.  You can sharpen the HSS bits with a grinder and stone and adjust their heights to center (shim in the tool holder) to improve performance.  The 1/8" hogging is a bit extreme in my experience.  I've never taken that kind of cut before, even in aluminum but you can certainly cut steel with the Taig.  I've made parts from stainless and cold rolled.  Generally I start out turning 5 thou and then try 10 and then 15 and then 20, 50 etc.  You will feel when things are going wrong or you get a jam as you describe.  The belt slipping is a good indicator it's being pushed too far for the current setup (rigidity, diameter, speed, tool type and sharpness).  Every time I address the lathe, the 3 jaw chuck keys are missing.  I believe they are 1/8" steel rod so easy to replace with stock from home depot and a hack saw.  I should probably make a dozen sets and just have them hidden somewhere for future use.  You can adjust the speed by placing the belt in parallel pulley locations.  If having trouble with slippage in the 3 jaw, try using hex stock.  Otherwise, use the 4 jaw with steel hard jaws and you can get a much better grip.  The tailstock h as a dead center you can use for supporting longer stock.  Just use a center drill to prepare the stock and grease the tail stock dead center (might have a jacobs chuck installed on it).  There is a live center available as well that clamps in the tailstock.  Finally there is a steady rest that I believe is at the space.  It's more useful for long small diameter parts and restricts access to the work.  I can do another demo sometime this year when things settle back down.. mid January.  Let me know how it goes!

On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Jim S <jimski...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have another project with much smaller parts so am giving the lathe another look.  According to the data sheet this lathe can "hog" 1/8" cuts in steel but realize that is sales sheet bragging and not realistic in normal use.  Still, I did some fooling with it last night and could take only very, very light cuts without it stalling and the belt slipping (and then quickly turning it off - didn't seem to hurt the belt).  The cutter mounted didn't look too good so I tried a different one with not much better results.  Is this thing really capable of steel?  I realize I need to take light cuts...  Part of the problem was the 3 jaw chuck.  I only found one of the rod wrenches and used a drill bit for the other one but I thought I got reasonable torque on it.  Now that I think about it I should have reversed the jaws to get a longer clamping area.  Wasn't able to find any cutting oil either which didn't help.  Material was a scrap of 1/2 water pipe about 2" long.  I suppose support for the end would have helped but I didn't find anything like a live or dead center.  I did find one thing I think is a center support - would support the center of a long part - but part wasn't long enough to use it.  I'm not blaming it all on the equipment - I probably was doing a number of things wrong or at least not the best way.  Any advice?

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[Jim S]

Thanks for the feedback.  After thinking about this a bit more I think one of the main issues was the limited clamping of the 3 jaw chuck.  I think the force from the cutter moved the end of the part up and then when that rotated around to the cutter the cut was much deeper and stopped the spindle.  If I had reversed the jaws I would have had about 3 times more length giving much stiffer clamping.  The pipe was a little rough which made things worse too.

1/8" sounds a bit weak for the check bars - I would think they might bend a little too easily if it was just cheap, big box store rod.  I hope to be at AR tomorrow night and will measure them.  The one bar I found looked to be higher grade steel.

I didn't find the 1/4" insert cutter set on littlemachineshop site but there was a set in the toolbox at AR that sounds like exactly the same thing.  I used one of them for most of my trials.  One thing I wondered about was the height.  I didn't check too carefully but it seemed to put the cutter about at center line but I didn't use a spacer to raise it up to the same level as the 5/16 tools.  Should I have used a 1/16" spacer?  I will check it a bit closer next time.

[Keith Rogers]

Tops of 1/4 inch cutters should end up at center on stock tool posts.  5/16 blanks would need to be ground such that they cut 1/16 below their top in the same tool post.  All turning should be at center ideally.  Yes, cheap steel from Home Depot is fine for the keys.  The ends bend a little but it's kind of a feature in my opinion.  Keeps folks from over tightening and prevents gouging out the key holes in the chuck (total speculation here lol).  But at any rate, you can spin them on the next tightening to bend back.  That's how my stock keys work anyhow.  

Sent from my mobile device

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[Jim S]

Keith,

Thanks for clarifying the tool height.  The 1/4" tools seemed to be the right height but the opening in the tool holder is slightly over 5/16 so it seemed sized for 5/16.  Also a 5/16 tool was mounted when I started (so I put it back - guess I shouldn't have).

Good point on the rods limiting the torque applied - I hadn't considered that.  The holes in the chuck HAVE been mangled quite a bit but are still usable.  Would be good to limit further damage - much more and it will be hard to use.

[Keith Rogers]

Ahh, using a cutting tool 1/16 over center will give you problems.  Usually you end up with rubbing under the cutting edge as the stock is not retreating away as it passes.  Machinists bother to shim within a few thou of center so I can imagine .063 having an impact.  You should see much better results with centered tooling.  Also, you can practice on the leaded steel (free machining) blanks if you like.  They are about $3 and threaded to attach directly to the spindle.  I believe there are a few laying around in the box.  Generally they are used for making custom arbors or tool holders.  You can't get any more ideal on work holding and machinability so you can focus on speeds, cutter, technique.

Sent from my mobile device

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[Jim S]

I was using a 1/4" tool for practically all my previous session so the height wasn't the issue. 

I have been reading up a bit and the grip of the Taig three jaw chuck (actually the limited grip) seems to come up a lot. 

Are the jaws of the 3 jaw chuck easily reversed?  I was reading that some chucks jaws don't reverse and actually have another set of jaws that are "reverse".  It wasn't specific for the Taig though.  If not I may try the 4 jaw chuck.

[Keith Rogers]

Ok, good deal on using the 1/4 inch cutters.  Regarding the 3-jaw soft jaws are reversible via removal of each aluminum jaw from the steel base and just flipping it around 180 and reattaching (two socket head cap screws per jaw).  I've never checked how repeatable the jaws are once flipped but probably good enough.  If not, just touch up with boring tool (be sure to preload though).

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[Keith Rogers]

Here are the soft jaws I sell.  10 bucks for a set.

[Jim S]

Thanks.  I thought the whole jaw reversed but apparently the teeth are curved to match the scroll so wouldn't match up if reversed.  Getting a lot better understanding of how things work...  or are meant to work :)

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 12:11:19 PM UTC-6, phoglite wrote:

Ok, good deal on using the 1/4 inch cutters.  Regarding the 3-jaw soft jaws are reversible via removal of each aluminum jaw from the steel base and just flipping it around 180 and reattaching (two socket head cap screws per jaw).  I've never checked how repeatable the jaws are once flipped but probably good enough.  If not, just touch up with boring tool (be sure to preload though).

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Jim S <jimski...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was using a 1/4" tool for practically all my previous session so the height wasn't the issue. 

I have been reading up a bit and the grip of the Taig three jaw chuck (actually the limited grip) seems to come up a lot. 

Are the jaws of the 3 jaw chuck easily reversed?  I was reading that some chucks jaws don't reverse and actually have another set of jaws that are "reverse".  It wasn't specific for the Taig though.  If not I may try the 4 jaw chuck.

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[Frank Kallal]

The Trick is Convincing Keith to Come in and Teach a Class :)   

Fk

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[EschewObfuscation]

With any small lathe, there are cost-driven design compromises. The Taig is no exception. If you want to turn between centers (you might need to screw on an end cap so the dead center has something to engage), there is a *minimum* part length you can set up, as the tool holder prevents the tailstock from getting too close to the chuck. If a piece of water pipe is truly your desired workpiece (and not just an expedient), you might want to consider making an arbor to run its full length, then pin the pipe to the arbor, through some bit you're willing to trim off after turning.

[Jim S]

The 4 jaw chuck worked much better than the 3 jaw although it took some time to get parts centered.   I was able to turn down one piece and bore the other so they were a loose slip fit.  Then cut a slot in the larger tube with a hacksaw.  Cleaned off the burrs and was able to clip the corner off 0.27" thick aluminum sheet metal easily in a vise with very little burr.  Basically proved I could make punches for the sheet out of readily machined steel without hardening.  Next step is to work on a corner radius punch.  Harder to do, especially when incorporating the punch and die alignment into the parts and not rely on the press or a die set for alignment but I have some ideas.  May be a job for a mill rather than a lathe...