No captcha input possible for password revovery and skier symbol ("S[") not displayed on APRS.FI

[Chris]

Hello,

being quite new to hamradio an especially APRS I´m currently trying to resurrect my aprs.fi login.
However, password recovery attempts result in:
<snip>
You need to type the CAPTCHA string exactly as shown. Sorry for the trouble, this test is done to make spamming harder. (incorrect-captcha-sol)
</snip>
but there is neither a captcha nor an entry field for captchas shown on: https://aprs.fi/forgot/

Furthermore, when playing around with APRS symbols I recognized that certain human symbols (such as skier, "S[") are displayed as the original defined "wall cloud" ("\[") and I don´t know if this is intentional or just a missing update (I guess the skier symbol was already introduced in 2007, though).

Thank you for any comments!

Regards,

 Chris

[Heikki Hannikainen]

Hi,

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017, Chris wrote:

> being quite new to hamradio an especially APRS I´m currently trying to resurrect my aprs.fi login.
> However, password recovery attempts result in:
> <snip>
> You need to type the CAPTCHA string exactly as shown. Sorry for the trouble, this test is done to make spamming harder. (incorrect-captcha-sol)
> </snip>
> but there is neither a captcha nor an entry field for captchas shown on: https://aprs.fi/forgot/

Oops, I forgot to fix that while switching to the new recaptcha model in
signup. Fixed it now; please try again!

> Furthermore, when playing around with APRS symbols I recognized that
> certain human symbols (such as skier, "S[") are displayed as the
> original defined "wall cloud" ("\[") and I don´t know if this is
> intentional or just a missing update (I guess the skier symbol was
> already introduced in 2007, though).

aprs.fi (and most other APRS apps) do not switch symbol graphics based on
the overlay character. Maybe YAAC does, but I don't know if any other apps
do. Can anyone point out an app that does, actually?

Bob has been defining additional symbols faster than anyone has managed to
draw those into graphics, so those additional symbols are not widely
supported at this point. Drawing those graphics and managing the
collection is actually a lot of work, and it's very slow to get them
deployed to all of the various applications. Bob can put in a new one in
the text file in a minute, but someone might have to spend hours turning
that single symbol into a pretty image that shows up somewhere, aligns
well on the correct center point, and scales well to different
resolutions. And then a little bit more to fix alignment again since it
wasn't quite right on the first attempt. :)

The aprs.fi symbol graphics set is here, I've put it together in vector
format and published it in a way that allows other apps to use the same:

https://github.com/hessu/aprs-symbols

That's compatible with the older symbol graphics most other apps and
devices currently use:

http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/APRS_symbols.htm

The symbol description strings to go with that are here:

https://github.com/hessu/aprs-symbol-index/blob/master/symbols.csv

It is certainly out of date with http://aprs.org/symbols/symbols-new.txt
but I currently can't invest the time to draw many more; there are a few
more important things to do first.

Also, about the large amount of new symbols: I don't think anyone cares so
much if my house is nuclear, geothermal or coal powered, that there should
be a symbol drawn for each. (For the record: it is geothermally heated
with nuclear+coal+hydroelectric+wind generated 50 Hz 3-phase 240V
electricity, can I have a symbol for that combination please?)

- Hessu

[Chris]

Hello Heikki,

thank you very much for your reply and I can confirm captchas work again now :-)
You do great work!

I totally agree that the new-symbols dataset is massive and that the benefit of such a huge set may at least be disputed.
However, there might be some newer icons that would be at least "nice to have".
Would you also accept user contributed icons on a single base, e.g. like I do the skier, you integrate it? I read someone else was requesting a certain weather balloon icon or something. Or would you prefer/only accept the entire symbol set, or maybe subgroups like the human symbols ("*[") etc.?

Thank you in advance,

 Chris

[Heikki Hannikainen]

Hi,

On Fri, 10 Mar 2017, Chris wrote:

> thank you very much for your reply and I can confirm captchas work again now :-)

Excellent, thank you!

> However, there might be some newer icons that would be at least "nice to have".
> Would you also accept user contributed icons on a single base, e.g. like I do the skier, you integrate it? I read someone else was requesting a certain weather balloon icon
> or something. Or would you prefer/only accept the entire symbol set, or maybe subgroups like the human symbols ("*[") etc.?

The integration work of per-overlay symbol graphics is pretty high, on the
order of couple full days (for conversion scripts, aprs.fi symbol
mappings, and the iOS app support). So, I might not do that just for one
or two symbols. I think there are some higher-priority items going in
first, like APRS messaging in the app, fixing the alerts system, and so
on.

But, if there would be a reasonably large bunch of *usable* symbol
graphics, i.e. vector format (.ai or .svg), and pretty enough, renders
well in the necessary pixel resolutions (please do check pixel alignment
of straight horizontal / vertical lines at 24x24 resolution), sure. Not as
the next thing, but later, sure.

Probably these individual symbols would have to be maintained as separate
.ai or .svg files, one file per symbol, which would then be rendered
automatically to a new set of sprite sheets by the conversion script in
https://github.com/hessu/aprs-symbols . A JSON config file would be
maintained to map the overlays/codes to the SVGs and sprite coordinates.

- Hessu

[Chris]

Hello Hessu,

now that the skiing season ist more or less over I eventually found some time to look into the symbol thing again.
I realized that some of the symbols on http://www.aprs.org/symbols/symbols-new.txt do have a "Recommend special symbol" flag.
Luckily, the skier is one of them :-)
In particular, the recommended symbols are:

A\ = Avmap G5
S[ = Skier
KY = Kenwood       
and
YY = Yaesu/Standard

I quite don´t understand why suggested symbols for other brands, like

AY = Alinco
BY = Byonics
IY = Icom

are not recommended though.
However, with only four symbols of the entire new alternate symbols set being recommended this opens the possibility to add only those four symbols to your symbol set and still being somewhat congruent with the specification.
I have therefore tried to create corresponding vector files. However, I´m not very much into computer graphics nor do I understand the exact specifications of your symbol set. For instance, I simply loaded a graphics of the avmap g5 (http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamacc/5063.jpg) into inkscape and converted it to vector graphics. This resulted into a very large file (around 300k) even though I reduced the colors to 8. I couldn´t figure out how to reduce the file/symbole size yet.
What would you think - would it be reasonable to add those four symbols to your symbol set and may I ask you to assist me in converting the symbols? I would presume that adding a product image,  a skier icon and two brand icons should be an conceivable amount of work?
Best regards and thank you for your service!

Chris

[Heikki Hannikainen]

Hi,

Converting from bitmap to vector is generally a bit tricky. Some vector
formats allow you to embed a bitmap image, so you might actually still
have a bitmap within the file. You may also end up a with a huge file.

Generally, to get good results, you really do have to *redraw*, by hand,
or start with vector source material.

Don't expect it to be easy, it can take an hour or two to make a symbol
even once you're quite familiar with the process. After drawing it you'll
need to confirm that that the horizontal and vertical edges are aligned so
that they'll render sharply at 24x24 bitmap resolution.

If you grab an image off someone else's web site, you'll also have to
figure out the licensing of that image. They're copyrighted material, and
unless it's explicitly open-sourced, you'll have to ask for permission to
redistribute it under an open source license.

The copyright/license situation for each image in the high-resolution set
is documented here:

https://github.com/hessu/aprs-symbols/blob/master/COPYRIGHT.md

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- Hessu

[Chris]

Hello Hessu,

I have now decided to use google image search which can filter for licenses.
I chose those four files which appear to be free to use:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Logo_AvMap.png
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:CH-Zusatztafel-Skifahren.svg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Vertex_Standard_Logo_Stacked.jpg
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Kenwood_Logo.svg

I attached them to this posting. Do you like them? Would those be fine?
I decided to use a general AVMAP logo in favor to the suggested AVMAP G5 since the G5 is not in production any longer and has been replaced with the G6.
I couldn't find a "free" Yaesu (apart from the VS) logo though and I don't know if it would be fine to just use and convert the one wikipedia is using (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DivisionLogo_65.gif)? I guess people barely use Vertex Standard in hamradio nowadays.

There are plenty of skier logos available: https://www.google.de/search?q=avmap&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiK6vvpp7_TAhXMthQKHeFJBA8Q_AUIBygC&biw=1280&bih=664#tbs=sur:fmc&tbm=isch&q=skier+logo&imgrc=7QRELcA_FAt8HM:
I decided to use a more traditional one but I don't mind.

Thank you and best regards,

 Chris

[Heikki Hannikainen]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017, Chris wrote:

> I have now decided to use google image search which can filter for licenses.
> I chose those four files which appear to be free to use:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Logo_AvMap.png

The small text under AvMap is probably too small to be readable, but
maybe it can be removed, if AvMap allows this kind of usage in their
terms.

> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:CH-Zusatztafel-Skifahren.svg

For the skier, please choose one which can indicate course/direction, and
one that is pointing to the right (90°) by default, that's the standard
starting point for rotation on the symbol set. Otherwise it'll be more
tricky to get it pointing to the correct direction when rotating.

> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Kenwood_Logo.svg

The kenwood 'W' is already in the symbol set, so that's not needed.

> I couldn't find a "free" Yaesu (apart from the VS) logo though and I don't know if it would be fine to just use and convert the one wikipedia is
> using (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DivisionLogo_65.gif)? I guess people barely use Vertex Standard in hamradio nowadays.

Depends on Yaesu, it's up to them whether they allow using it. The
trademarks are never free like that - even if I draw a new copy that looks
the same, it's still their trademark and if you use it in ways not
appreciated by the trademark owner, it can get difficult and complicated.

- Hessu

[Chris]

Hey Heikki,

I simply mirrored the Skier gif and it does now point to the right. Regarding the direktion, since skiing is usually downhill (apart from ski touring/cross country) I guess it is the poles which indicate the direction of the skier.
For the AVMAP logo, I have already removed the small text. For the VS logo, I only kept the logo and removed the entire text since I found that a bit to wide.
How is the trademark thing handled for logos already in the symbol set, e.g. the Kenwood logo? Do you have a written consent or something?
I don't mind converting another logo, I figured it out in Inkscape and it is pretty straight forward :-)
Best regards and thank you,

 Chris

[Chris]

Hi again,

I just came accross https://pixabay.com/p-34546/?no_redirect which would certainly be a nice hiker (H[ = Hiker) symbol as it is entirely free to use.
Since skiing season ist just over that is probably the other big thing people do in the mountains ;-)
I attatched a mirrored version of the hiker directed to the right.

Best regards,

Chris

[Heikki Hannikainen]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017, Chris wrote:

> I just came accross https://pixabay.com/p-34546/?no_redirect which would certainly be a nice hiker (H[ = Hiker) symbol as it
> is entirely free to use.
> Since skiing season ist just over that is probably the other big thing people do in the mountains ;-)
> I attatched a mirrored version of the hiker directed to the right.

Hi,

Have you confirmed that these SVG images are square (all symbols are
rendered 24x24, 32x32, 48x48, 64x64 or such), and that the rendering to
small bitmaps works as I described earlier?

"renders well in the necessary pixel resolutions (please do check pixel
alignment of straight horizontal / vertical lines at 24x24 resolution)"

"After drawing it you'll need to confirm that that the horizontal and
vertical edges are aligned so that they'll render sharply at 24x24 bitmap
resolution."

At least the skier symbol has so narrow lines that at 24x24 they might not
show up at all, have you tried and confirmed how it looks at that
resolution?

> I simply mirrored the Skier gif and it does now point to the
> right. Regarding the direktion, since skiing is usually downhill
> (apart from ski touring/cross country) I guess it is the poles
> which indicate the direction of the skier.

Over here in Finland cross country skiing is equally common, I wouldn't
dare to say "usually downhill". In fact, no downhill skis in this house at
all, 100% cross country. Well, there's a snowboard too.

The symbol is also fully black. Fully black symbols can be very hard to
see when they are placed on dark background. Symbols consisting of
multiple colours would be preferable, they have better change of being
visible on various different backgrounds.

> How is the trademark thing handled for logos already in the symbol set,
> e.g. the Kenwood logo? Do you have a written consent or something?

For Kenwood, it's been in the symbol set for much longer than I've been
around on APRS; I figured if they've been OK with it this long, they're
probably OK with it in the future. Probably Bob talked with them, or they
asked for it to be included; I don't know.

- Hessu