Weight and balance

[Domenic]

Any thoughts about adding weight and balance tab (including helicopters)?

[Zubair Khan]

That's a very comprehensive separate app. For example GPS location is a different thing from stability. If we make one, it will not be in Avare.
Z

On May 9, 2015 12:45 PM, "Domenic" <maj.do...@gmail.com> wrote:

Any thoughts about adding weight and balance tab (including helicopters)?

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[Domenic]

OK. I use a spreadsheet with two charts so I didn't think it was that difficult. There are already tables in Avare. No problem though. I'll keep using my spreadsheet on my tablet.

[Peter Gustafson]

At risk of stating the obvious, I think the primary problem here is that wide variety of cg envelopes will be difficult to accommodate. Every aircraft having a different basic empty, etc. The perturbations are just endless. I'm also personally doubtful that entering this info into my tablet would ever be faster and easier than the spreadsheet I already have.

Conceptually, I think this would be fun. If you also think it's interesting, perhaps you could mock up a user interface and we could start talking about what it would take. Having said that, I think it's going to be a low priority.

On May 9, 2015 1:14 PM, "Domenic" <maj.do...@gmail.com> wrote:

OK. I use a spreadsheet with two charts so I didn't think it was that difficult. There are already tables in Avare. No problem though. I'll keep using my spreadsheet on my tablet.

[Domenic]

All of the values would be user entered once in the aircraft profile feature that's already under development.

[Rivpilot]

Why clutter up the app when there are plenty of free W&B apps available. I've set up a free account with flightplan.com and use their W&B tool in their Android app. Check it out.

[Domenic]

It would make it more of a complete, one stop shop app.

Also, try finding a helicopter weight and balance app that works. Plenty for airplanes. Helicopters are often left out of most aviation apps.

[Mike]

I consider creating one app for all aircraft types challenging. I have created a simple Robinson Weight and Balance calculator for Android, the differences between each aircraft found made me stick to specific types.

Regards, Mike

[John W SBA]

> I consider creating one app for all aircraft types challenging.

Guess I'm just lucky, because the four SEL types I've flown all used
fairly similar w/b calculation methods. In fact, for my 172Q all I
needed was to calculate the max CG envelope for both seats, baggage and
fuel and found that in essence if it fits it flies if below gross. Four
real people with 2 hours' fuel is easy.

Is the wider problem due to complex, hi-perf or other factors?
Different methods of calculating w/b and/or envelope? If some types
don't provide enough data for calculation, might it be possible to
calculate backward from known values assuming they're provided in some
sort of envelope or examples?

Since you already have one for helicopters (well, at least one), it
could be helpful to base a new app on that code and at least add the
easy and most popular types like the Cessnas. If it were built as a
distinct app, perhaps adding in some I-FI & I-Timer code, it could be
called by Avare with a button for smooth integration while keeping the
Avare code clean and simple for anyone not wanting those features.

[Mike]

Happy to share the code, but since it is based on JS, I would rather start from scratch and only use it as a reference.

Regards, Mike

[Domenic]

Hi, just curious if any progress has been made with respect to an integrated weight and balanced tab?

[Zubair Khan]

How many seats? Empty, Fuel, Front, Mid, Back, Baggage, Aux Fuel etc?

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Zubair Khan
apps4av.com
zk4u.blogspot.com
Sudbury, MA 01776

[Domenic]

I'd like to do an open format where the user can enter the ARM and Moment of each point, num of seats, etc.  Once you do that once, it's easy to recalculate for different weights. I have attached a screenshot of an example excel sheet I use. It shows both longitudinal and lateral CG and full and empty fuel.

[David Vancina]

Zubair, just say "No". Please keep Avare focused on navigation. I'm shocked at the whining over everyone's pet feature. There's simply no reason to bloat Avare with all this stuff. There are lots of ways and apps that can do W&B. The more peripheral features you cram into the code the more complex it's going to be to use and the harder it's going to get to maintain and test. If it's not nav, don't do it, please!

I like a quote I read from a flight systems QA engineer: "Your feature is my failure mode."

Thanks for your great work. Much appreciated.

DJV

[Domenic Padula]

That's a cynical view and the name calling isn't really appreciated.

Do you carry separate things for every purpose like a cell phone, paper maps, gps, pager, computer, mp3 player, camera, video camera, books to read, scanner, dictionary, dictation machine, etc or do you have a smartphone? Thank God we have converged devices. No need to be afraid of adding features. If we were afraid of adding features, you'd be carrying paper maps and a compass still.

I understand that you're an airplane pilot but there is exactly 1 app that does helicopter weight and balance properly. Yes, there are plenty of airplane W&B apps. I appealed here knowing that a great app could benefit by adding useful features and that the developers here could do it properly.

In any case, there is no need to disparage people for having a request. A simple "I'd rather keep Avare more pure" would be a more constructive comment.

[David Vancina]

Yes, I'm a pilot, but I've spent close to 30 years in the software business. I've been both a software engineer and development manager, so I know somewhat whereof I speak.

I've observed several threads here lately with strident, even demanding cries for features that can already be satisfied by other means. This will, without doubt, have a deleterious effect on Avare over time. Two effects, actually. One being the bloated code that will result, the other the eventually fed-up developers who decide keeping up the code is no longer worth the abuse.

Your analogy makes my point. Video camera, mp3 player, voice recorder, book reader, dictionary... these are all useful things to have on my smartphone, and I have them. But making them part of Avare would be foolish. The architecture of Android lends itself very well to switching between small apps, less well to big ones.  Avare is a flight planning and navigation app. Loading it up with features to do every single thing a pilot needs to do in the cockpit, or before getting into the cockpit, or after getting out, would be unwise. I'd rather see the developers add valuable planning and navigation features, vs. being pecked at to satisfy ancillary requests that can already be met by existing apps.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh. No offense is intended. I'd just like to see everyone think a little more carefully about what NEEDS to go into Avare, about what can be better satisfied another way, and make feature suggestions accordingly.

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“Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.”  -- C.S. Lewis

[David Vancina]

BTW... your spreadsheet looks really good. I made one to do W&B for the 172 I fly, and have it on Google Sheets. I personally think that's the best way to approach that requirement. (I haven't worked out the graphical depiction. I just use conditional formatting to go "red" when CG or weight limits are exceeded.)