'Voyager' observations - **Spoilers**

[Laura1-07]

I'm currently reading Voyager for the third time.  I can't believe it didn't register before that both Jamie and Claire are reading smutty novels at some point.  Jamie when he's in the Lake District and Claire when she is at the hospital in Boston.  Lol!  It's a shame DG didn't have them comparing notes later on.

[Laura1-07]

Another observation.  I am re-reading these books for the first time since seeing Richard Rankin as Roger.  It is amazing how he embodies that role.  I now see RR very much as I am reading.  Not Sophie Skelton as Brianna though.  She is just so physically different and the book is always mentioning Brianna height.

[broughps]

Maybe after Sophie has been Bree a while she'll start to be Bree in my head, but nope not now. But yes to RR already being Roger.

[lyn foley]

Yeah verra verra bad casting choice...

[broughps]

Cait was miscast too, but look how far she's come.

[Laura1-07]

Another 'Voyager' observation is that Brianna seems much nicer than I remember.  Definitely better than in DIA.

[broughps]

Well she had gotten the shock of her life in DIA. By Voyager she's realized Claire is telling the truth and now she's actively searching for Jamie.

[Laura1-07]

I've just been reading the reunion scene.  It has got to be my favourite scene in any book I have ever read.  I was wondering what lines they will keep and from the scenes which follow.  I know the bicycles line was mentioned but I do hope that they keep this:

“Well, I don’t know, do I?” I pointed out, with some asperity. “The first thing you do when I find you is faint, and as soon as I’ve got you back on your feet, you get me assaulted in a pub and chased through Edinburgh in company with a deviant Chinese, ending up in a brothel—whose madam seems to be on awfully familiar terms with you, I might add.” The tips of his ears had gone pink, and he seemed to be struggling between laughter and indignation.

“You then take off your clothes, announce that you’re a terrible person with a depraved past, and take me to bed. What did you expect me to think?”

[Laura1-07]

Another observation about Claire's hair.  I recall some said that in the book Claire had a streak of grey hair like they gave her in the last episode of Season 2.  But in chapter 26 when Jamie is stroking her hair she is thinking that it hasn't gone grey just paler in places where it has gone a 'softer gold' with just the 'glint' of silver strands.  But then in the book Claire's hair is a lighter brown so grey wouldn't show as early.  

[Laura1-07]

I felt so sorry for Claire when they got back to Lallybroch.  Not just because of the actual Laoghaire business, but because of Jenny.  She had been so looking forward to seeing her again because she regarded her as the nearest thing she had had to a sister and the closest woman friend of her life.  Then after all the events that follow at Lallybroch they are never really close again until Jenny comes to America.  Also on this re-read I noticed for the first time that Jamie had told Jenny that Claire was pregnant when he ‘lost’ her.  I wonder why Jenny never asked about the child, unless she assumed it had died, like Claire’s first and didn’t like to ask.   

[BaileyCallie]

While I love  the Print shop, my favorite is when Claire is nursing Jamie after she returns.    The really gets to me.

[Dwinn]

Funny you should say that, been watching True Blood on demand and seeing how much Deborah Ann Woll looks so much like the Bree character and Sam. I think she is too old to play Bree now but Deborah was always my choice for Bree!
http://pin.it/DKZxCzv

[Laura1-07]

While I love  the Print shop, my favorite is when Claire is nursing Jamie after she returns.    The really gets to me.

I hate the stuff before that though, when they are fighting.  It is unfair of Jamie to blame Claire for leaving him and going back to Frank when she didn't want to go and he made her.

[BaileyCallie]

Of course it is not fair....but for some reason I think I like it when Claire and Jamie argue...I love the making up!

[Dwinn]

I love their fights too! They have some really good fights!!

[Laura1-07]

Of course it is not fair....but for some reason I think I like it when Claire and Jamie argue...I love the making up!

I don't usually mind, but for some reason, I hate this one.  Perhaps because I love Jamie so much and  I am disappointed in the way he behaves.  Not just him blaming Claire for leaving,  but also because I can't believe he didn't tell Claire about Laoghaire, especially after he took her back to Lallybroch.  She was bound to find out.  I also don't like Jenny here.  I'm always relieved when they leave Lallybroch.

[Krish728]

 I'm always relieved when they leave Lallybroch. 

Lol.. I'm always bothered when they leave Lallyborch. Always something very bad happens when someone leaves Lallybroch. 

When Jamie gets raped the first time. Jamie and Claire had to go through a 20 years' separation the second time. Young Ian gets kidnapped the thirdd time. Brianna gets raped the fourth time. 

[Laura1-07]

When Jamie gets raped the first time. Jamie and Claire had to go through a 20 years' separation the second time. Young Ian gets kidnapped the thirdd time. Brianna gets raped the fourth time. 

Very true.  It's only this time I am relieved.  I know young Ian has been kidnapped but they are together and things are out in the open as well, apart from the other secret Jamie is keeping, that of William. 

A part of me is sad that they couldn't settle and be happy at Lallybroch though.  I suppose there would be no story then.  lol

[Krish728]

A part of me is sad that they couldn't settle and be happy at Lallybroch though.  I suppose there would be no story then.  lol 

I hope the series could end like that.

[broughps]

But Lallybroch is no longer home. Fraser's Ridge is. I don't think given the choice that Jamie would settle back at Lallybroch now.

[Krish728]

Yes, I know. Just my hope. I always preferred Lallybroch.

[Laura1-07]

He signed it over the Young Jamie anyway.

[Une Pensee]

You're right about the Ridge, but if Raymond showed up and gave Jamie a one-time pass to travel to when Bree and Roger own Lallybroch he might go.

[broughps]

Nah not when he knows Bree and Roger are coming back to him anyway. But even if he went I think it would only be for a quick look to see modern times and then back to the Ridge. Even with Bree and Roger owning Lallybroch (and I'd really like to know when the Murray's lost Lallbroch) it still wasn't Jamie's home.

[BaileyCallie]

Besides, Jamie was born to be a Laird and on the RIdge he is

[broughps]

Like he told Claire, he must have a mountain.

[India Ana]

[Edit]

Hid the spoiler. Sorry.

[/Edit]

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[Spoiler] 

I think Jamie will be ecstatic that Lallybroch ends up in Bree's hands. It will relieve his guilt of never having been Laird there. *shrugs* 

[/Spoiler]

[Laura1-07]

I think Jamie will be ecstatic that Lallybroch ends up in Bree's hands. It will relieve his guilt of never having been Laird there. *shrugs*

I never really thought about it before but he would love that.  Doesn't he know though when he sees them in his dreams.  I remember he dreams about Amanda. Does he not know they are at Lallybroch?

[lyn foley]

Ah spoiler spoiler....

[broughps]

I want to say he does, but I'm not sure if he actually gets a good look at where they are as opposed to what they're doing.

[Laura1-07]

I want to say he does, but I'm not sure if he actually gets a good look at where they are as opposed to what they're doing.

Thanks.  I suppose Roger and Bree didn't have Lallybroch long either, but at least they restored it.  They didn't sell it before they went back through the stones did they?  

[Laura1-07]

Another observation from 'Voyager'.  I'm surprised that before Claire returns and sticks Jamie with the antibiotics, Jenny hadn't done the same to his wound than she did to the one he received after Culloden.  Instead it seems she has accepted that he is dying and is just sitting by his bed.

[lyn foley]

Eh seriously spoiler alert... thanks girls

[broughps]

Spoilers below













No they didn't sell it. I think Bree set it up to be rented. Iirc the new tenants sent Roger's letter to her in Boston.

[broughps]

Spoilers

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Well she probably cleaned it out best she could but it would have been a smaller place to slick Jamie open and he probably would have lost his arm.

More spoiler space because book 9











But she does say later that she figured he'd get better on his own and would have gone after Claire.

[broughps]

I tried to put spoiler space (after you reminded us)  but what ever we put up shows even before you click the post.

The thread does say it's talking about Voyager so you do know that if you haven't read it there will be spoilers for you.

[Laura1-07]

spoilers  - It's a shame we cant' do this any other way.




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Well she probably cleaned it out best she could but it would have been a smaller place to slick Jamie open and he probably would have lost his arm.

I couldn't decide if the infection was in his arm or his side (which was also injured),  or both.

But she does say later that she figured he'd get better on his own and would have gone after Claire.

I'd forgotten that.

P.S.
This the third time I've read and I still don't know where Jamie said the quote that Claire remembers after she has left.  The one that goes something like  'Do you know what it means to say again I love you and to mean it?'

 

[Andorra97]

The one that goes something like  'Do you know what it means to say again I love you and to mean it?' 

 

Oh, I know when that is. It's one of my all time favorite scenes! It's when they're at the tavern and then go up into a private room. Don't ask me for the chapter though. The day after their reunion! 

[Andorra97]

Am Dienstag, 21. März 2017 17:21:04 UTC+1 schrieb broughps:

I tried to put spoiler space (after you reminded us)  but what ever we put up shows even before you click the post.

The thread does say it's talking about Voyager so you do know that if you haven't read it there will be spoilers for you.

Maybe we should put a (spoiler) in the title as a warning? We could also open a "Voyager specuation" thread (spoiler free), but I doubt there are many here besides Lynn, who haven't read the books? 

[Laura1-07]

Oh, I know when that is. It's one of my all time favorite scenes! It's when they're at the tavern and then go up into a private room. Don't ask me for the chapter though. The day after their reunion!

Is it after they go to the private room?  I've looked but can't see it.

[Laura1-07]

Maybe we should put a (spoiler) in the title as a warning?

Done that.  :)

[Andorra97]

OK, I looked it up. It is not in the scene that I thought. 

 "Do you know, his voice said, whispering, what it means, to say again " I love you," and mean it?" (Voyager - Chapter 38 - Flight from Eden - page 440) "

[Krish728]

It's in Lallybroch.. after Jamie gets shot.

[India Ana]

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On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 4:58:14 AM UTC-5, Laura1-07 wrote:

[Spoiler] I think Jamie will be ecstatic that Lallybroch ends up in Bree's hands. It will relieve his guilt of never having been Laird there. *shrugs* [/Spoiler]

[Spoiler] I never really thought about it before but he would love that.  Doesn't he know though when he sees them in his dreams.  I remember he dreams about Amanda. Does he not know they are at Lallybroch? [/Spoiler]

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Apologies for the spoiler ... I keep forgetting not everyone has read all the books. I've hidden the spoiler quotes above. Just click "ctrl plus a" to have it show up.

[Spoiler] I've only read the books once, and that was during the first half of season one. I remember he felt danger. hmm I think he did recognize landmarks. But dreaming of it, and knowing for sure the dreams are real are two different things. *shrugs* [/Spoiler]

[India Ana]

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On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 10:58:50 AM UTC-5, Laura1-07 wrote:

[Spoiler] I want to say he does, but I'm not sure if he actually gets a good look at where they are as opposed to what they're doing. [/Spoiler]

[Spoiler] Thanks.  I suppose Roger and Bree didn't have Lallybroch long either, but at least they restored it.  They didn't sell it before they went back through the stones did they? [/Spoiler]

 

[Spoiler]

I believe Bree had Joe Abernathy rent out Lallybroch  ... IIRC. *shrugs*

[/Spoiler]

[India Ana]

Sorry ... this isn't a spoiler ... it's just to show you have to type SPOILER many times in order to keep the spoiler from showing up on a collapsed post.

[Edit]

Man, they really make it hard to hide spoilers don't they?

[/Edit]

[India Ana]

I give up. There's no way to hide spoilers here.

[Krish728]

Actually, this one hided the spoiler. How did you do that? And it's like you said... Ctrl+A will reveal what's in it.

[India Ana]

Oh! My co-Admin at Whoosh set this up years ago, before Proboards added a spoiler code to their forums, so why not use it here?

http://lesigns.com/whoosh/community/rot13.html

Copy/Paste the comment below in the top box at the page linked above:

Guvf zvtug or gur orfg jnl gb cbfg fcbvyref. *fuehtf* Rirelguvat V qvq gb gel naq uvqr gurz snvyrq gb xrrc gurz bhg bs gur pbyyncfrq cbfg. Fb, whfg glcr lbhe pbzzrag va gur gbc obk, naq pbcl cnfgr jung pbzrf hc va gur obggbz obk.

To write your spoiler, type your comment in the top box, and copy/paste your comment from the bottom box into your comment box here.

[India Ana]

On Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 11:31:03 PM UTC-5, Krish728 wrote:

Actually, this one hided the spoiler. How did you do that? And it's like you said... Ctrl+A will reveal what's in it.

It hides the spoiler within an expanded post, but not within a collapsed post. Here's how I did it: After I typed out my spoiler, I highlighted it, and made the font white so that it disappeared into the white background. You can also highlight a spoiler and make the background black in order to hide the text within it too. You can also use any color you want, as long as both font and background are the same exact color the spoiler will remain hidden until you click "ctrl plus a".

Text Color --- Text Background Color ---------- Black Text Color --- White Text Background Color

Text Color --- Text Background Color

Text Color --- Text Background Color

Text Color --- Text Background Color

Text Color --- Text Background Color

Text Color --- Text Background Color

[India Ana]

* SPOILER * ALERT * SPOILER * ALERT * SPOILER * ALERT * SPOILER * ALERT * SPOILER * ALERT * SPOILER * ALERT * SPOILER * ALERT * SPOILER * ALERT * SPOILER * ALERT *

One final test. Not sure why my "spoiler" space keeps getting hidden as quotes, thus allowing the spoiler to show up in a collapsed post. The decoder I linked to may be the best bet. *shrugs* 

http://lesigns.com/whoosh/community/rot13.html

[Andorra97]

I can't read the hidden spoilers with a phone. I just get a black space.

[Laura1-07]

OK, I looked it up. It is not in the scene that I thought. 

 "Do you know, his voice said, whispering, what it means, to say again " I love you," and mean it?" (Voyager - Chapter 38 - Flight from Eden - page 440) "

That is when Claire is remembering Jamie saying it after she has fled Lallybroch.  I am unable to find the spot when Jamie actually said it to her.  Thanks anyway.  :)

[Laura1-07]

It's in Lallybroch.. after Jamie gets shot.

 

But she is remembering it after she has fled and then she finds out Jamie has been shot.

[Krish728]

Yes, she was remembering.. but it's nowhere else. I always wondered where did Jamie or Claire say this. I think Diana wrote it in one of her drafts and it got left out by the editors?

[Bunny]

Doesn't show up on an iPad either. 😕 Isn't typing "spoiler" and tabbing down a few lines enough of a warning to proceed at your own risk of spoilage?

[Andorra97]

OK now I have it. Chapter 37 page 583. Weird, it's actually after the chapter where she remembers it?? Never noticed that!

"To say `'I love you' and mean it with all your heart," I said softly to the dark "Aye," he answered, barely audible. "To say that"

[Andorra97]

Am Mittwoch, 22. März 2017 12:09:06 UTC+1 schrieb Bunny:

Doesn't show up on an iPad either.  😕  Isn't typing "spoiler" and tabbing down a few lines enough of a warning to proceed at your own risk of spoilage?

I actually think a warning in the header of the thread should be enough, wouldn't it?  

[broughps]

That's how we pretty much did spoilers on the Farscape google group years ago.

[Lyntochter]

 I was a bit confused with the spoiler conversation above as I was on my phone and couldn't see or do much anyway.  Would it work if you typed it then used the black text background colour to cover it.  Is it then possible to uncover the post?  Just going to try this with a line below.  However, probably still would not work on phones or tablets?

Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, this is a spoiler

I probably think just putting spoiler in the title should be OK 

Ok - what happens is that you don't get the toolbar for a post.  However if you select the black with your mouse you can see underneath.  But I guess that wouldn't work with phone or tablet, although you should be able to select with keystrokes?  

[Bunny]

Can't see not nothin'...

[Lyntochter]

Are you using a phone or tablet?

[Laura1-07]

Well she probably cleaned it out best she could but it would have been a smaller place to slick Jamie open and he probably would have lost his arm.

Going back to this.  I wonder if Jenny felt any responsibility for Jamie’s injury.  If she hadn’t sent for Laoghaire he wouldn’t have been shot.  I understand that she wanted to bring things out in the open but she had no right sending for Laoghaire like that.  It was cruel to everyone concerned.  And then encouraging Claire to leave when she knew how much Jamie loved her.  What did she think was going to happen, that he would get back with Laoghaire.

[Laura1-07]

OK now I have it. Chapter 37 page 583. Weird, it's actually after the chapter where she remembers it?? Never noticed that!

"To say `'I love you' and mean it with all your heart," I said softly to the dark "Aye," he answered, barely audible. "To say that"

Yes, It is like they are remembering it again together there.  But his original words are not there.  Maybe it is like Krish said, that DG wrote it and it was left out by her editors. Maybe it should have been during the reunion scene.

[broughps]

The thing is not only did she send for Laoghaire but she had to have sent Laoghaire and Marsali up to Jamie's bedroom. No reason for them to be there otherwise.

I understand why Jenny sent Claire away and why she acted as she did when Ian was dying. The first she admitted she was scared Jamie would go with Claire and she'd never see him again. The second was anger talking. She knew there was no hope for Ian and she took out her anger on Claire, she being the most convenient.

The anger over Ian was ridiculous though. Ian went of his own accord, Jamie didn't force him into it.

[broughps]

By the sounds of it they don't  hardly edit anything out and that would be one they wouldn't touch. I'm thinking DG wrote the memory scene first and didn't realize until later that she never had Jamie and Claire saying it in the first place. The hazards of piece meal writing.

[Bunny]

Tablet (iPad)

[Bunny]

Langnebbit

[lyn foley]

Work away I just won't read this thread

[India Ana]

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 6:09:06 AM UTC-5, Bunny wrote:

Doesn't show up on an iPad either.  😕  Isn't typing "spoiler" and tabbing down a few lines enough of a warning to proceed at your own risk of spoilage?

It's okay for an 'expanded' post, but not for a 'collapsed' post. After I've read a thread, and come back to read new posts, the spoilers show up on the collapsed posts. All the spaces and returns are omitted that keep the spoiler down the page. Sometimes the spoiler tags get turned into hidden quotes, and that allows the spoiler to show up on the collapsed post. Making the font and background doesn't work on a collapsed post either. Which led to my suggestion of my co-Admin's spoiler decoder. Only the decoder will keep spoilers hidden on a collapsed post.

My spoiler came from a latter book, so even if everyone has read 'Voyager,' I'd still have to hide my comment from those who haven't read latter books.

[Laura1-07]

The thing is not only did she send for Laoghaire but she had to have sent Laoghaire and Marsali up to Jamie's bedroom. No reason for them to be there otherwise.

Yes, that was cruel to Marsali and to Laoghaire and had to fuel her anger resulting in her shooting Jamie.

The first she admitted she was scared Jamie would go with Claire and she'd never see him again.

Yes, I re-read that bit last night.  She knew he wouldn't go back to Laoghaire but that he had married her and he wouldn't leave her altogether even though he was spending most of his time in Edinburgh.  But she feared he would leave with Claire.  She was just being selfish though, not thinking of Jamie or Claire at all.

[Laura1-07]

Another observation.  I hope that they include the scene where Jenny's grandchildren are climbing all over Jamie, braiding his hair and calling him 'pretty Nunkie' and when Claire comes back into the room he has random plaits and ribbons in his hair.  Lol!  It might not be possible though with Sam's hair being so short.

[broughps]

The "cowardly lion". Yes I hope that's in there too.

"I must hit her, she called me Snotty."

[Laura1-07]

The "cowardly lion". Yes I hope that's in there too.

I suppose he could just have ribbons tied in his rather than plaits if it too short to braid.  It would be a lovely light hearted moment after all the drama and before the next drama with young Ian.

[broughps]

It would.

[Laura1-07]

Let's hope one of the book readers on the writers' team puts it forward.

[Laura1-07]

I've just reached the part where young Ian is taken and noticed something else for the first time.  When Claire asks Jamie if he noticed the name on the ship he says that ships don't have names painted on them then.  That is news to me.  They do not much later during the Napoleonic Wars.  Certainly  Lord Nelson's flagship 'Victory' does.  I visited it in Portsmouth last year.

[broughps]

I know ships had names, but I don't think they were painted on them. Maybe the Victory has it's name on it now, but not back then?

[Laura1-07]

 Maybe the Victory has it's name on it now, but not back then?

That was a thought that I had afterwards.

[cbookout1]

I remember the movie "Master and Commander" with Russell Crowe which took place during the Napoleonic wars of the late 1700s/early 1800s. I remember seeing the names on the ships painted on the stern. Now, grant you, I don't know how historically correct that is....just an observation.

[cbookout1]

I'll add something else here.  When J&C sail for France in S1 Ep16. The name of the ship was painted on the stern...."Cristobel".

[Laura1-07]

I'll add something else here.  When J&C sail for France in S1 Ep16. The name of the ship was painted on the stern...."Cristobel".

I was trying to remember yesterday if it was painted on the ship.  Thanks for that.  But I suppose that was in the series not the books. It might not have been historically accurate.  It will be interesting to see if this conversation takes place in the series and if the ships have their names painted on them.

[Redheid]

WHY did they never discuss their pasts? They start to do it but stop. Jamie says it doesn't signify or something like that. But each tells the other in their own ways that they have not been celibate for the last 20 years. They never talk about it, though. Why not? If I were Claire I would be concerned about a sexually transmitted disease-she's a doctor!  Bring up the subject, talk about the past, acknowledge it, don't ignore it. Then move on.

I would have a hard time forgiving Jenny for informing Laoghaire. Jenny betrayed her brother, in my opinion, and hurt him, Claire, and Laoghaire. Granted, Jamie should have told Claire he was married, but it was HIS place to do it, not Jenny's. Her actions made sure that Claire found out in the worst way and nearly cost her brother's life. How on earth did Jenny think knowing about Laoghaire would get rid of Claire and Jamie would be fine with that? I am not much of a Jenny fan.

Another thing, Claire again is upset during the Malva stuff, when Jamie tells her about Mary. (Although she does calm down.) Once again, When Claire returned to him, Jamie told her he hadn't lived as a monk so she either should have asked about that or not been upset to learn there were a couple one night stands. Most people would have expected a lot  more activity on Jamie's part during 20 years. But no discussion of their time apart, for years. When Jamie told Claire about Willie it would have been the perfect time to also mention that there was onnnnnnne other time... If not before that. Jamie and Claire talk about so much, why not that?

[broughps]

Apparently it wasn't that important to them.

[cbookout1]

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 4:19:51 PM UTC-5, Redheid wrote:

WHY did they never discuss their pasts? They start to do it but stop. Jamie says it doesn't signify or something like that. But each tells the other in their own ways that they have not been celibate for the last 20 years. They never talk about it, though. Why not? If I were Claire I would be concerned about a sexually transmitted disease-she's a doctor!  Bring up the subject, talk about the past, acknowledge it, don't ignore it. Then move on.

At least Claire seemed to have wanted to bring up the subject, though delicately, when they arrived up in the brothel bedroom when she states "I know you'll have a life now...maybe you have...other ties" (I'm sure he knew what "other ties" meant) which he ignored and only answered her question of if he wanted her to stay. The conversation branches off in that direction and the "other ties" subject is dropped.  I agree with you about getting their pasts out in the open...early in the reunion. That's one of the first things I would want to know about, but then again I'm not Claire. 

I also didn't like Jenny after she betrayed Jamie and fetched Laoghaire, and continued to dislike her in Book 7 after Claire "reveals all" to the Lallybroch clan. Jenny's more rational and tolerable when she's in N.Carolina in Book 8, but for some reason (maybe her natural selfishness), I still don't like, or trust, her yet.

[Krish728]

Well, Jenny is a typical sister who thinks no woman is good enough for her brother.. certainly not a woman who left them during a crisis and never sent a word to inquire their well being (that's the impression Jenny got). And also seeing that Claire might take Jamie away from her for good has forced her to act like she did. She's the woman who went through all kinds of hell in those 20 years.. Ian getting taken away by the Redcoats again and again.. long years of famine.. Saved Jamie by herself (we should thank Jenny for saving Jamie here.. if not for her, Jamie would either be dead or a cripple lol). Watched him get wasted.. get arrested.. and all kinds of horror. So, yeah.. if she got scared by Claire - who either got back from dead (like a fairy or whatever).. or didn't care what happened to Lallybroch and now came back to claim her husband once she found him alive.. to which she has no right to do so (In Jenny's mind Claire abandoned them and she has no right to come back and claim Jamie when she found him alive) - I wouldn't blame her. Jenny, in her own sense, wanted to protect Jamie.. and acted on that impulse.

[Laura1-07]

WHY did they never discuss their pasts?

I know it is frustrating at time.  In another thread I was asking when he would tell her about Laoghaire.  I know he would have, but taking her back to Lallybroch, surely he knew she would find out.  So many people knew already.  He should have told her as they were travelling back.

[Newguise]

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 11:59:31 PM UTC+1, cbookout1 wrote:

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 4:19:51 PM UTC-5, Redheid wrote:

I also didn't like Jenny after she betrayed Jamie and fetched Laoghaire, and continued to dislike her in Book 7 after Claire "reveals all" to the Lallybroch clan. Jenny's more rational and tolerable when she's in N.Carolina in Book 8, but for some reason (maybe her natural selfishness), I still don't like, or trust, her yet.

Jenny's a woman and because of the life she's led, I think we forget that she is also a warrior and a survivor.  She is not Claire who gets fully stuck in, she has very few opportunities to go out there and actively contribute to getting the result she wants.  So she chooses to do it at one remove, by using other people, and manipulating them, and guessing their feelings and resulting actions, hoping to get her way through them.  

No wonder she gets that wrong.  That is basically impossible to get right, no matter how good a judge of character you are!

[Lyntochter]

Yes, I agree with Krish and Newguise about Jenny.  I always liked Jenny and Jamie really should have said something to Claire.  I think he tried to but was too scared she would disappear again.  We have to remember Jenny didn't know at this time about Claire's time travelling and even when she did know, I don't think she really understood.  Very few people at that time would have believed it.  Heck, if you think about it how many people do you know that can time travel through stones?  If someone told you they had what would you think?

Fergus nearly spills the beans when he first meets Claire again - says something like 'But what about .....? Then either gets interrupted or thinks he shouldn't say anything.  I think there was also another incident - maybe young Ian?  Will have to go back to the book.  Maybe Claire should have tackled Jamie then and said something like - so you didn't marry again?  But perhaps she was a bit head in the sand as well.

[Laura1-07]

I also didn't like Jenny after she betrayed Jamie and fetched Laoghaire, and continued to dislike her in Book 7 after Claire "reveals all" to the Lallybroch clan. Jenny's more rational and tolerable when she's in N.Carolina in Book 8, but for some reason (maybe her natural selfishness), I still don't like, or trust, her yet.

I feel the same I know she was grieving but I didn't like the way she blames Claire for not being able to help Ian.

[Laura1-07]

Fergus nearly spills the beans when he first meets Claire again - says something like 'But what about .....? Then either gets interrupted or thinks he shouldn't say anything.  I think there was also another incident - maybe young Ian?

Yes, and in Edinburgh Claire leaves the room at one point leaving Jamie, Ian and young Ian together.  Things fall quiet when Claire re-enters the room and she is thinking that she has missed something.  Young Ian avoids her eye and Ian looks flushed and uneasy.  I wonder if they had been speaking about it then or whether that was just about young Ian.

[Redheid]

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 11:08:51 PM UTC-7, Laura1-07 wrote:

WHY did they never discuss their pasts?

I know it is frustrating at time.  In another thread I was asking when he would tell her about Laoghaire.  I know he would have, but taking her back to Lallybroch, surely he knew she would find out.  So many people knew already.  He should have told her as they were travelling back.

 All it would have taken was one slip and Claire would find out from someone else, and it should come from Jamie. What was the point of taking Claire to Lallybroch before he told her? Did Jamie think she'd be too far away from the city or the stones to leave if she wanted? Or was he going to tell Claire and then Laoghaire in one really bad day? Going to Lallybroch to tell Claire was not necessary.

[Redheid]

On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 9:51:27 AM UTC-7, Laura1-07 wrote:

Fergus nearly spills the beans when he first meets Claire again - says something like 'But what about .....? Then either gets interrupted or thinks he shouldn't say anything.  I think there was also another incident - maybe young Ian?

Yes, and in Edinburgh Claire leaves the room at one point leaving Jamie, Ian and young Ian together.  Things fall quiet when Claire re-enters the room and she is thinking that she has missed something.  Young Ian avoids her eye and Ian looks flushed and uneasy.  I wonder if they had been speaking about it then or whether that was just about young Ian.

I definitely think they had been speaking of Laoghaire. Didn't Ian or Young Ian also nearly spill the beans around this time?  I keep thinking one of them started to ask about Laoghaire and was cut off. I could be remembering wrong, though. Maybe it was just Fergus I'm thinking about.

[Redheid]

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 9:59:34 PM UTC-7, Krish728 wrote:

Well, Jenny is a typical sister who thinks no woman is good enough for her brother.. certainly not a woman who left them during a crisis and never sent a word to inquire their well being (that's the impression Jenny got). And also seeing that Claire might take Jamie away from her for good has forced her to act like she did. She's the woman who went through all kinds of hell in those 20 years.. Ian getting taken away by the Redcoats again and again.. long years of famine.. Saved Jamie by herself (we should thank Jenny for saving Jamie here.. if not for her, Jamie would either be dead or a cripple lol). Watched him get wasted.. get arrested.. and all kinds of horror. So, yeah.. if she got scared by Claire - who either got back from dead (like a fairy or whatever).. or didn't care what happened to Lallybroch and now came back to claim her husband once she found him alive.. to which she has no right to do so (In Jenny's mind Claire abandoned them and she has no right to come back and claim Jamie when she found him alive) - I wouldn't blame her. Jenny, in her own sense, wanted to protect Jamie.. and acted on that impulse.

You make good points, but still.... I'm not a Jenny fan, but she does get better in the last book. Jury is still out on her, though. Jenny still needs to stop trying to control Jamie's life-she hasn't done a bang up job, has she?

[cbookout1]

On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 2:48:34 PM UTC-5, Redheid wrote:

You make good points, but still.... I'm not a Jenny fan, but she does get better in the last book. Jury is still out on her, though. Jenny still needs to stop trying to control Jamie's life-she hasn't done a bang up job, has she?

👍👍👍 Even Jamie called Jenny a "meddling besom".

[Laura1-07]

Going to Lallybroch to tell Claire was not necessary.

He was in a tricky situation.  He had to take young Ian back to Lallybroch and he couldn't really leave Claire behind.  Maybe he should have sent young Ian on ahead with Fergus and told Claire as they were travelling back.  Even is Jenny hadn't brought thing to a head, it was only a matter of time before one of the children let it slip once back.

[Laura1-07]

Didn't Ian or Young Ian also nearly spill the beans around this time?  I keep thinking one of them started to ask about Laoghaire and was cut off. I could be remembering wrong, though. Maybe it was just Fergus I'm thinking about.

Yes, it is shortly after the incident when they had stopped talking when Claire re-enters the room.  Jamie says they will be taking young Ian back to Lallybroch and Claire says it will be good to see Jenny and the family again and young Ian blurts out 'But Uncle, what about.....'  Jamie then cuts him off with 'Be still.....Not another word, aye?'

Of course, Fergus said 'What about..' when he first met Claire again as well.