>On Oct 23, 2:43 pm, "Noel Friesen" <noel.frie...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>"oxtail" <oxtail@empty> wrote in message
>>
>>news:p-SdncBec7sMMJ3U...@ptd.net...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Noel Friesen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"oxtail" <oxtail@empty> wrote in message
>>>>news:Q46dneJq-YOF62LV...@ptd.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Awaken21 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Oct 22, 2:28 pm, oxtail <oxtail@empty> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Awaken21 wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Oct 22, 12:30 pm, oxtail <oxtail@empty> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Awaken21 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Oct 21, 11:52 pm, oxtail <oxtail@empty> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Awaken21 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Oct 21, 10:05 pm, oxtail <oxtail@empty> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Awaken21 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Oct 21, 8:41 pm, oxtail <oxtail@empty> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Awaken21 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Oct 21, 1:33 pm, oxtail <oxtail@empty> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Awaken21 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Oct 21, 12:24 pm, oxtail <oxtail@empty> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Awaken21 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Oct 21, 12:01 am, oxtail <oxtail@empty> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Awaken21 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Oct 20, 11:07 pm, oxtail <oxtail@empty>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Awaken21 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Oct 20, 6:23 pm, oxtail <oxtail@empty>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Awaken21 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Oct 19, 10:16 pm, oxtail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><oxtail@empty>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dj Flu wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>oxtail wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dj Flu wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>halfawake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>so you're not impressed by the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>guy?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>no.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>remember, I'm a just a jaded cynic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>waiting to be surprised. well, not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>exactly waiting 'cause surprises
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>always nice... I'm hoping he's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>consummate liar, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Isn't it about time for you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to stop lying to yourself?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Isn't it about time for you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to stop lying to yourself?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Isn't it rather difficult to deceive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>yourself while asking questions all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>No.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Have you tried to deceive yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>while asking yourself whether you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>deceiving yourself?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The deception happens before the queston is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>asked, and is often quite apparent within
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>question itself. Takes less than a split
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>second, it's instinctive, emotional, you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to pay close attention to catch yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>doing it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>For that matter,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all thoughts are delusional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>When you are mindful,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>who is really there to be mindful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and what is really there to be mindful of?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thankfully the question itself doesn't even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>arise,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>because even here it's quite tedious , how much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>more so if it's actually being carried around.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Too hard to be mindful of the tedious?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Too hard to create the conditions where these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>questions don't arise at all?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I don't try to check my thinking.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I just try to be mindful of what I'm thinking.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you're skilled at being mindful without acting on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thoughts eventually they'll learn to shut up all by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>themselves, no need for any direct effort to check
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>them on your part. Which means your answer is "No,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>not as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>skillful as I could be at cultivating conditions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>distracting questions etc. don't arise at all."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Are you usually grateful for everything?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You first, how many of those thoughts rolling around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in there involve gratitude?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm even grateful to be on the Usenet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Me too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>This is a good place for me to practice compassion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I think this place sucks to practice compassion. Better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to volunteer at local Hospice, or jail program, or soup
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kitchen, or even by just being more patient with your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>family and friends.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And I don't have to talk to myself!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>hehehe. That just makes me wonder why you still mostly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>talk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>yourself (your own admission) when this is such nice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>opportunity to speak to and with peers on the path,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is one of the things this place is good for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I talk to myself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>while waiting for the unexpected.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You like it here because you don't have to talk yourself,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>but you do talk to yourself because no one else is worthy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>actually talk to, most of us unenlightened heathens need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your help and that's accomplished by having us listen to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>talking to yourself ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I love to be surprised.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wonder when was the last time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I was surprised by the generosity and kindness
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of anyone here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Just like everywhere you get what you give?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Many people don't deserve what they get.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject switch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Do you ever laugh at yourself?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Do you ever see what arrogant ass you are?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Don't I make an ass of myself in public often enough?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Nicely done, second point conceded. Seems like you just need to
>>>>>>>>practice "not doing".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Do you ever rise above "this and that"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'd describe it as this and that dropping away, but even that is
>>>>>>somewhat deceptive because this and that don't really go anywhere.
>>>>>>I've answered this question from you earlier this week. I'm getting
>>>>>>the idea you're not paying attention to what I'm saying. lol
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>You hardly ever come across as free and empty.
>>>>>Usually not even as kind and generous.
>>>>>Would you like to?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I disagree. Luke seems freer than most here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Freer than you?
>>>
>>>
>>I haven't thought about it until now but yes, I think so.
>>
>>
>
>It's impossible to know under the circumstances. Even under better
>circumstances it would be dicey to guess, too many factors to juggle.
>And finally how helpful is it to compare person to person. Oxtail
>likes doing it, but how productive is it? I'm not so sure there's any
>benefit whatsoever to that line of thinking.
>
>
>
>
yeah, but otherwise how can we compose a good mental scorecard? I mean,
that's the fun of the game, isn't it? ;)
Robert
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Oh, oh, sorry. I seemed to have the impression we were playing "put
down the scorecard and step away" . My bad.
:)
you must have mistaken this for a "zen" list. :)
Robert
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