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'Now you will listen': Putin claims new nuclear weapons can bypass any missile defense system - Thanks for the Uranium Clintons!
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Treat The Problem Not The Noise
Mar 1, 2018, 9:56:42 PM3/1/18
to
Russian President Vladimir Putin boasted Thursday that Russia has
developed a new generation of nuclear weapons capable of bypassing any
missile defense system — a claim that drew a rebuke from the White
House and raised the specter of a rekindled Cold War-style arms
rivalry.
Some analysts said the bellicose tone of Putin's state of the nation
speech appeared mainly meant to bolster a tough image in advance of
this month's presidential election, in which his victory is a foregone
conclusion. Others questioned whether the new Russian weapon, if it
exists, would represent a genuine threat to American security.
Putin's rhetoric, replete with warnings that the Kremlin would respond
accordingly to any nuclear attack on Russia or its allies, marked some
of the most aggressive language he has deployed in the 13 months that
President Trump has been in office.
"No one was listening," the Russian leader declared. "Now you will
listen."
The White House, in turn, called Putin's comments a vindication of
Trump's pledge to modernize the U.S. nuclear arsenal and beef up
defensive capabilities.
"President Putin has confirmed what the United States government has
known all along, which Russia has denied — Russia has been developing
destabilizing weapon systems for over a decade, in direct violations
of its treaty obligations," said White House Press Secretary Sarah
Huckabee Sanders.
Trump, she said, "understands the threats facing America and our
allies in this century, and is determined to protect our homeland and
preserve peace through strength."
Putin's annual address to the Federal Assembly, which includes both
houses of Russia's parliament, was marked by not only rhetorical
flourishes, but also eye-catching visuals. As he stood at the podium,
animated videos and graphics were projected onto the large screen
behind him, aiming to illustrate the might of the new weapons, which
he said included the nuclear-powered, nuclear-armed cruise missile, an
underwater drone and a hypersonic missile.
The new weapons would render NATO's U.S.-led missile defense system
"useless," Putin intoned as a video behind him showed a graphic of a
missile weaving around purported missile defense systems on a spinning
model of the Earth.
In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert called the
simulated attack "cheesy," adding, "We don't regard that as the
behavior of a responsible international player."
The Putin presentation marked "a mix of old and new news," said
Malcolm Chalmers, the deputy director-general of the Royal United
Services Institute, a British defense think tank.
"This is an election speech he was making," said Chalmers, noting that
the United States and Russia have for decades had the ability to
overwhelm each other's defenses with a massive nuclear strike aimed at
multiple cities — but with the deterrent factor that such a strike
would be met in kind while missiles were still in the air.
Nonetheless, he and others said the new cruise missile, as described
by Putin, reflects Russian fears about U.S. defensive capabilities.
The Trump administration last month released a Nuclear Posture Review
that says the U.S. "now faces a more diverse and advanced
nuclear-threat environment than ever before," which it vowed to
contain.
Some analysts said the Putin speech reflected an increasingly muscular
posture by Moscow that is already playing out on the ground.
Thomas Karako, the director of the Missile Defense Project at the
Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, said
Putin's speech demonstrates a desire to "come up with new and
innovative ways to deliver nuclear weapons," but also fit a larger
pattern of menacing neighbors and North Atlantic Treaty Organization
allies.
"This is an example of Russia being provocative," Karako said. "We
have to take that seriously."
In his speech, Putin accused other nations of fuel????ing the arms
race by trying to outdo Russia's weapons and imposing sanctions meant
to hinder Russia's weapons development.
"All [that] you wanted to impede with your policies already happened,"
he said. "You have failed to contain Russia."
The new cruise missiles, which Putin said were tested in the fall,
have unlimited range and the ability to operate at high speeds,
allowing them to avoid any missile defense system. The Russian leader
also devoted nearly 40 minutes to touting development of underwater
drones, hypersonic warheads and "menacing" intercontinental ballistic
missiles.
Putin blamed the U.S. for abandoning the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile
Treaty, from which President George W. Bush withdrew the United States
in 2002, and subsequently refusing to cooperate.
"At some point, it seemed to me that a compromise [on missile defense
with the U.S.] could be found. But no," Putin said.
Because of this, he said, Russia was forced to create new weapons to
respond to U.S. actions that deployed missile defenses on the
territory of other countries. Putin was probably referring to NATO's
defense systems in former Warsaw Pact countries that Russia has said
threaten regional stability.
Some observers saw an increasingly dangerous dynamic.
"For the foreseeable future, it looks that the U.S.-Russia agenda will
be limited to just one item: war prevention. Good luck to us all,"
Dmitri Trenin, an analyst with the Carnegie Moscow Center, tweeted
after Putin's address.
Only three weeks before the March 18 presidential election, Putin's
annual address was meant to outline his vision for the country for the
first time since announcing his bid for reelection in December. With
an 80% approval rating, Putin — who has been either prime minister or
president since 1999 — is expected to easily win a fourth term and
remain in power until 2024.
Until Thursday's speech, Russian voters had heard very little about
the president's goals for the next six years. With the outcome of the
election all but guaranteed, the buildup to the vote has been met with
very little excitement from the Russian public.
Seven other candidates are competing for Putin's post, although none
are considered to be in real opposition to the Kremlin.
Putin predictably focused the first hour of the speech on domestic
issues, such as poverty reduction and improving the country's health
and education infrastructures.The Kremlin leader said Russia's
economic growth, which was 1.6% in 2017, should exceed the expected
global level of growth of 3.1% in 2018 — a forecast some analysts
deemed overly rosy.
"He seems to be talking about something wildly optimistic," said
William Courtney, a Rand Corp. analyst and a former ambassador to
Georgia and Kazakhstan, both ex-Soviet republics. Nationalist rhetoric
on weaponry, he said, may have been intended to paper over sagging
economic prospects.
The annual national address has in the past been held at the gilded
Kremlin Palace. Thursday's speech was relocated to the Moscow Manege,
a 19th century exhibition hall just outside the Kremlin's red-brick
walls.
The audience included both houses of parliament, regional governors
and members of the Cabinet and administration. Prime Minister Dmitry
Medvedev sat in the front row close to the head of the Russian
Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kirill, whose presence in Russian politics
had played a key role in Putin's nationalistic response to what the
Kremlin sees as Western attempts to undermine Russia's emergence.
In a seemingly lighthearted echo of Trump's populist showmanship,
Putin announced a name-the-weapon contest for Russia's new cruise
missile and unmanned underwater drone. Participants can log onto
Russia's Defense Ministry website to enter their ideas, he said.
"We are waiting for your responses," Putin said to applause.
Special correspondent Ayres reported from Moscow and Times staff
writer King from Washington. Staff writer Tracy Wilkinson in
Washington contributed to this report.
sabra...@latimes.com
Twitter: @SabraAyres
laura...@latimes.com
Twitter: @LauraKingLAT
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-russia-nuclear-weapons-20180301-story.html
developed a new generation of nuclear weapons capable of bypassing any
missile defense system — a claim that drew a rebuke from the White
House and raised the specter of a rekindled Cold War-style arms
rivalry.
Some analysts said the bellicose tone of Putin's state of the nation
speech appeared mainly meant to bolster a tough image in advance of
this month's presidential election, in which his victory is a foregone
conclusion. Others questioned whether the new Russian weapon, if it
exists, would represent a genuine threat to American security.
Putin's rhetoric, replete with warnings that the Kremlin would respond
accordingly to any nuclear attack on Russia or its allies, marked some
of the most aggressive language he has deployed in the 13 months that
President Trump has been in office.
"No one was listening," the Russian leader declared. "Now you will
listen."
The White House, in turn, called Putin's comments a vindication of
Trump's pledge to modernize the U.S. nuclear arsenal and beef up
defensive capabilities.
"President Putin has confirmed what the United States government has
known all along, which Russia has denied — Russia has been developing
destabilizing weapon systems for over a decade, in direct violations
of its treaty obligations," said White House Press Secretary Sarah
Huckabee Sanders.
Trump, she said, "understands the threats facing America and our
allies in this century, and is determined to protect our homeland and
preserve peace through strength."
Putin's annual address to the Federal Assembly, which includes both
houses of Russia's parliament, was marked by not only rhetorical
flourishes, but also eye-catching visuals. As he stood at the podium,
animated videos and graphics were projected onto the large screen
behind him, aiming to illustrate the might of the new weapons, which
he said included the nuclear-powered, nuclear-armed cruise missile, an
underwater drone and a hypersonic missile.
The new weapons would render NATO's U.S.-led missile defense system
"useless," Putin intoned as a video behind him showed a graphic of a
missile weaving around purported missile defense systems on a spinning
model of the Earth.
In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert called the
simulated attack "cheesy," adding, "We don't regard that as the
behavior of a responsible international player."
The Putin presentation marked "a mix of old and new news," said
Malcolm Chalmers, the deputy director-general of the Royal United
Services Institute, a British defense think tank.
"This is an election speech he was making," said Chalmers, noting that
the United States and Russia have for decades had the ability to
overwhelm each other's defenses with a massive nuclear strike aimed at
multiple cities — but with the deterrent factor that such a strike
would be met in kind while missiles were still in the air.
Nonetheless, he and others said the new cruise missile, as described
by Putin, reflects Russian fears about U.S. defensive capabilities.
The Trump administration last month released a Nuclear Posture Review
that says the U.S. "now faces a more diverse and advanced
nuclear-threat environment than ever before," which it vowed to
contain.
Some analysts said the Putin speech reflected an increasingly muscular
posture by Moscow that is already playing out on the ground.
Thomas Karako, the director of the Missile Defense Project at the
Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, said
Putin's speech demonstrates a desire to "come up with new and
innovative ways to deliver nuclear weapons," but also fit a larger
pattern of menacing neighbors and North Atlantic Treaty Organization
allies.
"This is an example of Russia being provocative," Karako said. "We
have to take that seriously."
In his speech, Putin accused other nations of fuel????ing the arms
race by trying to outdo Russia's weapons and imposing sanctions meant
to hinder Russia's weapons development.
"All [that] you wanted to impede with your policies already happened,"
he said. "You have failed to contain Russia."
The new cruise missiles, which Putin said were tested in the fall,
have unlimited range and the ability to operate at high speeds,
allowing them to avoid any missile defense system. The Russian leader
also devoted nearly 40 minutes to touting development of underwater
drones, hypersonic warheads and "menacing" intercontinental ballistic
missiles.
Putin blamed the U.S. for abandoning the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile
Treaty, from which President George W. Bush withdrew the United States
in 2002, and subsequently refusing to cooperate.
"At some point, it seemed to me that a compromise [on missile defense
with the U.S.] could be found. But no," Putin said.
Because of this, he said, Russia was forced to create new weapons to
respond to U.S. actions that deployed missile defenses on the
territory of other countries. Putin was probably referring to NATO's
defense systems in former Warsaw Pact countries that Russia has said
threaten regional stability.
Some observers saw an increasingly dangerous dynamic.
"For the foreseeable future, it looks that the U.S.-Russia agenda will
be limited to just one item: war prevention. Good luck to us all,"
Dmitri Trenin, an analyst with the Carnegie Moscow Center, tweeted
after Putin's address.
Only three weeks before the March 18 presidential election, Putin's
annual address was meant to outline his vision for the country for the
first time since announcing his bid for reelection in December. With
an 80% approval rating, Putin — who has been either prime minister or
president since 1999 — is expected to easily win a fourth term and
remain in power until 2024.
Until Thursday's speech, Russian voters had heard very little about
the president's goals for the next six years. With the outcome of the
election all but guaranteed, the buildup to the vote has been met with
very little excitement from the Russian public.
Seven other candidates are competing for Putin's post, although none
are considered to be in real opposition to the Kremlin.
Putin predictably focused the first hour of the speech on domestic
issues, such as poverty reduction and improving the country's health
and education infrastructures.The Kremlin leader said Russia's
economic growth, which was 1.6% in 2017, should exceed the expected
global level of growth of 3.1% in 2018 — a forecast some analysts
deemed overly rosy.
"He seems to be talking about something wildly optimistic," said
William Courtney, a Rand Corp. analyst and a former ambassador to
Georgia and Kazakhstan, both ex-Soviet republics. Nationalist rhetoric
on weaponry, he said, may have been intended to paper over sagging
economic prospects.
The annual national address has in the past been held at the gilded
Kremlin Palace. Thursday's speech was relocated to the Moscow Manege,
a 19th century exhibition hall just outside the Kremlin's red-brick
walls.
The audience included both houses of parliament, regional governors
and members of the Cabinet and administration. Prime Minister Dmitry
Medvedev sat in the front row close to the head of the Russian
Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kirill, whose presence in Russian politics
had played a key role in Putin's nationalistic response to what the
Kremlin sees as Western attempts to undermine Russia's emergence.
In a seemingly lighthearted echo of Trump's populist showmanship,
Putin announced a name-the-weapon contest for Russia's new cruise
missile and unmanned underwater drone. Participants can log onto
Russia's Defense Ministry website to enter their ideas, he said.
"We are waiting for your responses," Putin said to applause.
Special correspondent Ayres reported from Moscow and Times staff
writer King from Washington. Staff writer Tracy Wilkinson in
Washington contributed to this report.
sabra...@latimes.com
Twitter: @SabraAyres
laura...@latimes.com
Twitter: @LauraKingLAT
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-russia-nuclear-weapons-20180301-story.html
Daryl
Mar 1, 2018, 10:41:36 PM3/1/18
to
know that the Russian Sponsored Press has reported that the US F-22 does
not fly since the SU-57 has arrived in Syria out of Fear. I correct him
on that of course. What the hell is wrong with those people.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Oleg Smirnov
Mar 2, 2018, 3:33:41 AM3/2/18
to
Daryl, <news:p7ah5f$ngg$1...@dont-email.me>
> I am in communcication with a Russian Retired Military Member who let me
> know that the Russian Sponsored Press has reported that the US F-22 does
> not fly since the SU-57 has arrived in Syria out of Fear. I correct him
> on that of course. What the hell is wrong with those people.
What tf would 'Russian Sponsored Press' be.
Neither of Russian state-owned/sposored media reported so.
OTOH, you can not know all the details about the avia activities there.
> I am in communcication with a Russian Retired Military Member who let me
> know that the Russian Sponsored Press has reported that the US F-22 does
> not fly since the SU-57 has arrived in Syria out of Fear. I correct him
> on that of course. What the hell is wrong with those people.
Neither of Russian state-owned/sposored media reported so.
OTOH, you can not know all the details about the avia activities there.
Daryl
Mar 2, 2018, 5:23:54 AM3/2/18
to
times when we talk about the best Vodka, Gin and how to raise the best
veggies, we also talk about the local news since neither of us have
access to each others news. I do notice he no longer comments on it
anymore. I wonder why that is? Could it be that he is in trouble over
it? Speaking the truth even when it's a lie by your news agency still
gets your people in trouble I guess. I do hope he continues to comment
on other things like his love of farming. But he's stopped doing that
as well. Your Government is in a sad state of affairs.
Oleg Smirnov
Mar 2, 2018, 7:07:46 AM3/2/18
to
Daryl, <news:p7b8no$m1v$1...@dont-email.me>
You has thought it up too much.
The man really might pick it up from somewhere, - various unverified
stuff circulates in the internet. However, as I said, neither of
Russian official or state-controlled news outlets had "reported" it.
In contrast to the US, the Russian major media less abuse references
to unverifiable undisclosed sources and anonymous officials/experts.
The man really might pick it up from somewhere, - various unverified
stuff circulates in the internet. However, as I said, neither of
Russian official or state-controlled news outlets had "reported" it.
In contrast to the US, the Russian major media less abuse references
to unverifiable undisclosed sources and anonymous officials/experts.
thang ornerythinchus
Mar 9, 2018, 7:42:29 AM3/9/18
to
On Fri, 2 Mar 2018 15:07:17 +0300, "Oleg Smirnov" <os...@netc.eu>
wrote:
It's very enlightening to note that even the common person in Russia
thinks about international defence postures in context of Russia's
military strength - this attitude hasn't seeped down to the equivalent
rank in the US and certainly hasn't in most European countries of
note. It connotes a big inferiority complex.
I have met Russian tourists in south east asia and they are unvariably
aggressive belligerent and out to prove something. It's as though
they know the world doesn't think much of them. In Vietnam, the
Russian sailors on shore leave are considered "just like American
sailors but without the money".
Putin knows his 12 time zone sandpit is targeted by Trident 3 mirvs,
20 rockets each for 14 Ohio's each of which can sit in the bottom or
close of the ocean offshore Russia for 3 months without moving, then
launch around 200 or more warheads each, and these babies are way more
accurate than anything the Russians or Chicoms can send to sea. They
have really incredible CEPs like able to put 200 kt down Putin's
dacha's toilet while he's sitting on the bowl from a thousand miles
offshore and metres under the ocean.
These are the things which wake Putin and the other dictators up at
3.00hrs in cold sweats. They are the things which make the Yanks
laugh at Putin's posturing. It has very little to do with the
Minutemen. Tridents are the things of nightmares.
As democracy is perfected, the office of the president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the
people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of
the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
——— H. L. MENCKEN ———
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
wrote:
thinks about international defence postures in context of Russia's
military strength - this attitude hasn't seeped down to the equivalent
rank in the US and certainly hasn't in most European countries of
note. It connotes a big inferiority complex.
I have met Russian tourists in south east asia and they are unvariably
aggressive belligerent and out to prove something. It's as though
they know the world doesn't think much of them. In Vietnam, the
Russian sailors on shore leave are considered "just like American
sailors but without the money".
Putin knows his 12 time zone sandpit is targeted by Trident 3 mirvs,
20 rockets each for 14 Ohio's each of which can sit in the bottom or
close of the ocean offshore Russia for 3 months without moving, then
launch around 200 or more warheads each, and these babies are way more
accurate than anything the Russians or Chicoms can send to sea. They
have really incredible CEPs like able to put 200 kt down Putin's
dacha's toilet while he's sitting on the bowl from a thousand miles
offshore and metres under the ocean.
These are the things which wake Putin and the other dictators up at
3.00hrs in cold sweats. They are the things which make the Yanks
laugh at Putin's posturing. It has very little to do with the
Minutemen. Tridents are the things of nightmares.
As democracy is perfected, the office of the president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the
people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of
the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
——— H. L. MENCKEN ———
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Oleg Smirnov
Mar 9, 2018, 12:27:38 PM3/9/18
to
thang ornerythinchus, <news:7hv4adpa8d8fjtksm...@4ax.com>
You can't and should not speak for the world.
Learn more here <http://bit.ly/2oWxORV> if you are a novice.
You folks look bit comic while persisting in the talks about
the Russians among yourselves, and then one more boob seeks to
tell a Russian about 'the world doesn't think much of them'.
> On Fri, 2 Mar 2018 15:07:17 +0300, "Oleg Smirnov" <os...@netc.eu>
Learn more here <http://bit.ly/2oWxORV> if you are a novice.
You folks look bit comic while persisting in the talks about
the Russians among yourselves, and then one more boob seeks to
tell a Russian about 'the world doesn't think much of them'.
Byker
Mar 10, 2018, 3:47:32 PM3/10/18
to
"Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message news:p7ug69$bu$1...@os.motzarella.org...
I suppose Putin will now be boasting about ICBMs rolling off assembly lines
"like sausages"...
>
> You folks look bit comic while persisting in the talks about the Russians
> among yourselves, and then one more boob seeks to tell a Russian about
> 'the world doesn't think much of them'.
We're still snickering about Khrushchev's antics.
> You folks look bit comic while persisting in the talks about the Russians
> among yourselves, and then one more boob seeks to tell a Russian about
> 'the world doesn't think much of them'.
I suppose Putin will now be boasting about ICBMs rolling off assembly lines
"like sausages"...
george152
Mar 10, 2018, 4:31:18 PM3/10/18
to
and threaten the world with an arsenal that lies between his ears and
his mouth
Oleg Smirnov
Mar 11, 2018, 8:52:24 AM3/11/18
to
Byker the Shithead, <news:E56dnX3NcePC2TnH...@supernews.com>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruPYfofbpdU>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJzbzMa0-zE>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqfIZxu2urM>
Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJzbzMa0-zE>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqfIZxu2urM>
Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
thang ornerythinchus
Mar 12, 2018, 11:09:21 PM3/12/18
to
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 15:48:04 +0300, "Oleg Smirnov" <os...@netc.eu>
wrote:
Joke of course. The Yanks could pull one of these our of their asses
in a nanosecond if they considered it worthwhile - but why worry when
your entire POS country is ringed by Ohio's with advanced rocketry
sufficient to vaporize every conurbation with population >100K across
those 12 time zones.
There are 12 cities in Russia, population >1 million.
201 cities population 100K -> 1 million.
1292 towns/cities population 10K -> 100K
The 14 Ohios have between them, say, (24 * 12) = ~4,000 MIRVed 450kt
warheads...
After reducing Russia to the stone age, if that, by removing every
gathering of warmongering scum with population >10K, there would
*still* be ~2,500 warheads left for cleaning up purposes.
Why worry about hypersonic cruise missiles, Satans with inefficient
20mt warheads and the like? Just rely on unstoppable armageddon
platforms like the Ohio's which sit patiently waiting for the TACAMO
planes to settle Russia's warmongering chips once and for all :)
Take charge and move out, baby...
Every Night and every Morn
Some to Misery are Born.
Every Morn and every Night
Some are Born to sweet delight.
Some are Born to sweet delight,
Some are Born to Endless Night.
William Blake
wrote:
in a nanosecond if they considered it worthwhile - but why worry when
your entire POS country is ringed by Ohio's with advanced rocketry
sufficient to vaporize every conurbation with population >100K across
those 12 time zones.
There are 12 cities in Russia, population >1 million.
201 cities population 100K -> 1 million.
1292 towns/cities population 10K -> 100K
The 14 Ohios have between them, say, (24 * 12) = ~4,000 MIRVed 450kt
warheads...
After reducing Russia to the stone age, if that, by removing every
gathering of warmongering scum with population >10K, there would
*still* be ~2,500 warheads left for cleaning up purposes.
Why worry about hypersonic cruise missiles, Satans with inefficient
20mt warheads and the like? Just rely on unstoppable armageddon
platforms like the Ohio's which sit patiently waiting for the TACAMO
planes to settle Russia's warmongering chips once and for all :)
Take charge and move out, baby...
Every Night and every Morn
Some to Misery are Born.
Every Morn and every Night
Some are Born to sweet delight.
Some are Born to sweet delight,
Some are Born to Endless Night.
William Blake
Oleg Smirnov
Mar 13, 2018, 4:52:33 AM3/13/18
to
thang ornerythinchus, <news:acfead50devf10qa6...@4ax.com>
> The Yanks could pull one of these our of their asses
> in a nanosecond if they considered it worthwhile - but why worry when
> your entire POS country is ringed by Ohio's with advanced rocketry
> sufficient to vaporize every conurbation with population >100K across
> those 12 time zones.
>
> There are 12 cities in Russia, population >1 million.
> 201 cities population 100K -> 1 million.
> 1292 towns/cities population 10K -> 100K
>
> The 14 Ohios have between them, say, (24 * 12) = ~4,000 MIRVed 450kt
> warheads...
>
> After reducing Russia to the stone age, if that, by removing every
> gathering of warmongering scum with population >10K, there would
> *still* be ~2,500 warheads left for cleaning up purposes.
So I see that the main American interest is about extermination of
civilians (and they already did it by genociding out the natives of
North America). However, Russian military assets aren't concentrated
in the cities. American attacks on the cities won't harm the military
but rather make them more angry. Also you should become aware of the
fact that the Russian cities are protected with air and anti-missile
defense that is way better than the American one (so that even the US
'allies' seek to buy the anti-missile systems in Russia while the US
government exerts incredible pressure to prevent them from that).
> Why worry about hypersonic cruise missiles, Satans with inefficient
> 20mt warheads and the like? Just rely on unstoppable armageddon
Don't worry, take one more opioid pill and tell me more funny things.
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 15:48:04 +0300, "Oleg Smirnov" <os...@netc.eu>
>>> I suppose Putin will now be boasting about ICBMs rolling off assembly lines
>>> "like sausages"...
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruPYfofbpdU>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJzbzMa0-zE>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqfIZxu2urM>
>>
>> Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
>
> Joke of course.
This little missile rather makes the big aircraft carriers a joke.
>>> "like sausages"...
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruPYfofbpdU>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJzbzMa0-zE>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqfIZxu2urM>
>>
>> Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
>
> Joke of course.
> The Yanks could pull one of these our of their asses
> in a nanosecond if they considered it worthwhile - but why worry when
> your entire POS country is ringed by Ohio's with advanced rocketry
> sufficient to vaporize every conurbation with population >100K across
> those 12 time zones.
>
> There are 12 cities in Russia, population >1 million.
> 201 cities population 100K -> 1 million.
> 1292 towns/cities population 10K -> 100K
>
> The 14 Ohios have between them, say, (24 * 12) = ~4,000 MIRVed 450kt
> warheads...
>
> After reducing Russia to the stone age, if that, by removing every
> gathering of warmongering scum with population >10K, there would
> *still* be ~2,500 warheads left for cleaning up purposes.
civilians (and they already did it by genociding out the natives of
North America). However, Russian military assets aren't concentrated
in the cities. American attacks on the cities won't harm the military
but rather make them more angry. Also you should become aware of the
fact that the Russian cities are protected with air and anti-missile
defense that is way better than the American one (so that even the US
'allies' seek to buy the anti-missile systems in Russia while the US
government exerts incredible pressure to prevent them from that).
> Why worry about hypersonic cruise missiles, Satans with inefficient
> 20mt warheads and the like? Just rely on unstoppable armageddon
Juergen Nieveler
Mar 13, 2018, 9:08:04 AM3/13/18
to
On 13.03.2018 09:52, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
>>> Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
>>
>> Joke of course.
>
> This little missile rather makes the big aircraft carriers a joke.
Well, yes and no... it's just an SS-21 slung to a plane. No
>>> Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
>>
>> Joke of course.
>
> This little missile rather makes the big aircraft carriers a joke.
antiship-guidance, for example... and a carrier battlegroup would have a
Hawkeye up and operating, and would probably see the launch aircraft
quite early.
The main news about Kinzhal is that it allows to fire an SRBM (short
flight time, low apogee, not likely to be detected by ABM radar) against
targets that were formerly not in range of such a weapon.
It's not as if the USA don't have systems that might be able to kill a
Kinzhal, it's just that the reaction time needed would be much shorter
than for an ICBM.
--
Juergen Nieveler
Fred J. McCall
Mar 13, 2018, 6:56:15 PM3/13/18
to
Juergen Nieveler <jue...@nieveler.org> wrote on Tue, 13 Mar 2018
13:24:23 +0100:
>On 13.03.2018 09:52, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
>>>> Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
>>>
>>> Joke of course.
>>
>> This little missile rather makes the big aircraft carriers a joke.
>>
>
>Well, yes and no... it's just an SS-21 slung to a plane.
>
Where do you get that idea? Kinzhal as described seems quite
different from SS-21.
>
>No
>antiship-guidance, for example... and a carrier battlegroup would have a
>Hawkeye up and operating, and would probably see the launch aircraft
>quite early.
>
Maybe, although we don't have the sort of outer defense we used to
have back when the Tomcat was in the fleet.
>
>The main news about Kinzhal is that it allows to fire an SRBM (short
>flight time, low apogee, not likely to be detected by ABM radar) against
>targets that were formerly not in range of such a weapon.
>
>It's not as if the USA don't have systems that might be able to kill a
>Kinzhal, it's just that the reaction time needed would be much shorter
>than for an ICBM.
>
Kinzhal can supposedly maneuver right up to the target and flies twice
the speed of an SS-21. Such a weapon would be a bitch to intercept.
--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney
13:24:23 +0100:
>On 13.03.2018 09:52, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
>>>> Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
>>>
>>> Joke of course.
>>
>> This little missile rather makes the big aircraft carriers a joke.
>>
>
>Well, yes and no... it's just an SS-21 slung to a plane.
>
different from SS-21.
>
>No
>antiship-guidance, for example... and a carrier battlegroup would have a
>Hawkeye up and operating, and would probably see the launch aircraft
>quite early.
>
have back when the Tomcat was in the fleet.
>
>The main news about Kinzhal is that it allows to fire an SRBM (short
>flight time, low apogee, not likely to be detected by ABM radar) against
>targets that were formerly not in range of such a weapon.
>
>It's not as if the USA don't have systems that might be able to kill a
>Kinzhal, it's just that the reaction time needed would be much shorter
>than for an ICBM.
>
the speed of an SS-21. Such a weapon would be a bitch to intercept.
--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney
PaxPerPoten
Mar 13, 2018, 7:43:52 PM3/13/18
to
enough to start a conflict that would only decimate Russia and do a lot
of damage to America. America would survive such a conflict and Russia
definitely would not. The loss of Russia would hurt the world as it does
have a rich history and it is an integral part of the world..in
particular Europe. Keep in mind..America has tolerated a lot of damage
and insults without striking out with its very capable war machine.
Everything has been a punitive sanction. Remember the Pueblo, the USS
Liberty...And dozens of other incidents that a few hundred years ago
would have been answered by a full invasion. You really do not want that
to happen in modern times as it would be Centuries before the
radioactive vapor cleared. We now have control of our War Profiting
Democrats! The same ilk that created Vietnam. By the way ..Thank Mr
Putin for taking that mess in Syria off our hands. Who is profiting by that?
--
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster
Juergen Nieveler
Mar 14, 2018, 8:08:03 AM3/14/18
to
On 13.03.2018 23:56, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> Juergen Nieveler <jue...@nieveler.org> wrote on Tue, 13 Mar 2018
> 13:24:23 +0100:
>
>> On 13.03.2018 09:52, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
>>>>> Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
>>>>
>>>> Joke of course.
>>>
>>> This little missile rather makes the big aircraft carriers a joke.
>>>
>>
>> Well, yes and no... it's just an SS-21 slung to a plane.
>>
>
> Where do you get that idea? Kinzhal as described seems quite
> different from SS-21.
SS-26, sorry. It's believed to be a repurposed Iskander.
> Juergen Nieveler <jue...@nieveler.org> wrote on Tue, 13 Mar 2018
> 13:24:23 +0100:
>
>> On 13.03.2018 09:52, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
>>>>> Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
>>>>
>>>> Joke of course.
>>>
>>> This little missile rather makes the big aircraft carriers a joke.
>>>
>>
>> Well, yes and no... it's just an SS-21 slung to a plane.
>>
>
> Where do you get that idea? Kinzhal as described seems quite
> different from SS-21.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18943/putins-air-launched-hypersonic-weapon-appears-to-be-a-modified-iskander-ballistic-missile
The weapon has about the same shape and size, and matches the
capabilities...
>> The main news about Kinzhal is that it allows to fire an SRBM (short
>> flight time, low apogee, not likely to be detected by ABM radar) against
>> targets that were formerly not in range of such a weapon.
>>
>> It's not as if the USA don't have systems that might be able to kill a
>> Kinzhal, it's just that the reaction time needed would be much shorter
>> than for an ICBM.
>>
>
> Kinzhal can supposedly maneuver right up to the target and flies twice
> the speed of an SS-21. Such a weapon would be a bitch to intercept.
which also maneuver to some degree. The problem is getting a KV up and
on the right trajectory fast enough. The high speed of course also means
lasers are less effective... if you have to stay on target for 5 seconds
but the missile is out of your envelope in 4, that kind of sucks ;-)
--
Juergen Nieveler
Fred J. McCall
Mar 14, 2018, 2:35:54 PM3/14/18
to
Juergen Nieveler <jue...@nieveler.org> wrote on Wed, 14 Mar 2018
12:56:24 +0100:
>On 13.03.2018 23:56, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> Juergen Nieveler <jue...@nieveler.org> wrote on Tue, 13 Mar 2018
>> 13:24:23 +0100:
>>
>>> On 13.03.2018 09:52, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
>>>>>> Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
>>>>>
>>>>> Joke of course.
>>>>
>>>> This little missile rather makes the big aircraft carriers a joke.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, yes and no... it's just an SS-21 slung to a plane.
>>>
>>
>> Where do you get that idea? Kinzhal as described seems quite
>> different from SS-21.
>
>SS-26, sorry. It's believed to be a repurposed Iskander.
>
>http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18943/putins-air-launched-hypersonic-weapon-appears-to-be-a-modified-iskander-ballistic-missile
>
>The weapon has about the same shape and size, and matches the
>capabilities...
>
Well, it certainly looks like it, but if one believes what Putin said
it doesn't really match the claimed characteristics, being much slower
and shorter ranged than the claimed system.
>>> The main news about Kinzhal is that it allows to fire an SRBM (short
>>> flight time, low apogee, not likely to be detected by ABM radar) against
>>> targets that were formerly not in range of such a weapon.
>>>
>>> It's not as if the USA don't have systems that might be able to kill a
>>> Kinzhal, it's just that the reaction time needed would be much shorter
>>> than for an ICBM.
>>>
>>
>> Kinzhal can supposedly maneuver right up to the target and flies twice
>> the speed of an SS-21. Such a weapon would be a bitch to intercept.
>
>ABM systems are supposed to intercept even faster and smaller targets,
>which also maneuver to some degree. The problem is getting a KV up and
>on the right trajectory fast enough. The high speed of course also means
>lasers are less effective... if you have to stay on target for 5 seconds
>but the missile is out of your envelope in 4, that kind of sucks ;-)
>
Burnout of an SS-26 is only Mach 6 (vice the claimed Mach 10) and it's
not under power for most of its flight, so not maneuvering. It also
can't reach anything like the range Putin claimed. If it really is
just an SS-26 on an airplane, then it's not as big a deal. But if it
can fly at Mach 10 under power for the long range Putin gave, it's a
BIG problem.
--
"Rule Number One for Slayers - Don't die."
-- Buffy, the Vampire Slayer
12:56:24 +0100:
>On 13.03.2018 23:56, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> Juergen Nieveler <jue...@nieveler.org> wrote on Tue, 13 Mar 2018
>> 13:24:23 +0100:
>>
>>> On 13.03.2018 09:52, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
>>>>>> Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
>>>>>
>>>>> Joke of course.
>>>>
>>>> This little missile rather makes the big aircraft carriers a joke.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, yes and no... it's just an SS-21 slung to a plane.
>>>
>>
>> Where do you get that idea? Kinzhal as described seems quite
>> different from SS-21.
>
>SS-26, sorry. It's believed to be a repurposed Iskander.
>
>http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18943/putins-air-launched-hypersonic-weapon-appears-to-be-a-modified-iskander-ballistic-missile
>
>The weapon has about the same shape and size, and matches the
>capabilities...
>
it doesn't really match the claimed characteristics, being much slower
and shorter ranged than the claimed system.
>>> The main news about Kinzhal is that it allows to fire an SRBM (short
>>> flight time, low apogee, not likely to be detected by ABM radar) against
>>> targets that were formerly not in range of such a weapon.
>>>
>>> It's not as if the USA don't have systems that might be able to kill a
>>> Kinzhal, it's just that the reaction time needed would be much shorter
>>> than for an ICBM.
>>>
>>
>> Kinzhal can supposedly maneuver right up to the target and flies twice
>> the speed of an SS-21. Such a weapon would be a bitch to intercept.
>
>ABM systems are supposed to intercept even faster and smaller targets,
>which also maneuver to some degree. The problem is getting a KV up and
>on the right trajectory fast enough. The high speed of course also means
>lasers are less effective... if you have to stay on target for 5 seconds
>but the missile is out of your envelope in 4, that kind of sucks ;-)
>
not under power for most of its flight, so not maneuvering. It also
can't reach anything like the range Putin claimed. If it really is
just an SS-26 on an airplane, then it's not as big a deal. But if it
can fly at Mach 10 under power for the long range Putin gave, it's a
BIG problem.
--
"Rule Number One for Slayers - Don't die."
-- Buffy, the Vampire Slayer
thang ornerythinchus
Mar 14, 2018, 6:44:37 PM3/14/18
to
On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 11:52:03 +0300, "Oleg Smirnov" <os...@netc.eu>
wrote:
>thang ornerythinchus, <news:acfead50devf10qa6...@4ax.com>
>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 15:48:04 +0300, "Oleg Smirnov" <os...@netc.eu>
>>> Byker the Shithead, <news:E56dnX3NcePC2TnH...@supernews.com>
>
>>>> I suppose Putin will now be boasting about ICBMs rolling off assembly lines
>>>> "like sausages"...
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruPYfofbpdU>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJzbzMa0-zE>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqfIZxu2urM>
>>>
>>> Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
>>
>> Joke of course.
>
>This little missile rather makes the big aircraft carriers a joke.
Aircraft carriers are an anachronism. The Yanks know this, but they
are also symbolically prestigious. The latter factor is far more
important to "projection" of power, the difference in said power being
apparent when one flies over Manhattan -v- when one flies over Moscow.
I know English is your second language but don't you think "big
aircraft carriers" is a little redundant?
>
>> The Yanks could pull one of these our of their asses
>> in a nanosecond if they considered it worthwhile - but why worry when
>> your entire POS country is ringed by Ohio's with advanced rocketry
>> sufficient to vaporize every conurbation with population >100K across
>> those 12 time zones.
>>
>> There are 12 cities in Russia, population >1 million.
>> 201 cities population 100K -> 1 million.
>> 1292 towns/cities population 10K -> 100K
>>
>> The 14 Ohios have between them, say, (24 * 12) = ~4,000 MIRVed 450kt
>> warheads...
>>
>> After reducing Russia to the stone age, if that, by removing every
>> gathering of warmongering scum with population >10K, there would
>> *still* be ~2,500 warheads left for cleaning up purposes.
>
>So I see that the main American interest is about extermination of
>civilians (and they already did it by genociding out the natives of
>North America). However, Russian military assets aren't concentrated
>in the cities. American attacks on the cities won't harm the military
>but rather make them more angry. Also you should become aware of the
>fact that the Russian cities are protected with air and anti-missile
>defense that is way better than the American one (so that even the US
>'allies' seek to buy the anti-missile systems in Russia while the US
>government exerts incredible pressure to prevent them from that).
I'm not American so can't speak for them, but I can certainly speak
about them.
As far as genocide goes, there is a saying "the pot calling the kettle
black". Your compatriots tried to destroy Ukraine in the 1930's,
causing uncounted millions of deaths through collectivisation. They
made a secret pact with Hitler, a sworn enemy, to partition Poland
knowing full well what Hitler would do to the German side. Then,
there was the Kulak deportations, the Chechen deportations, the German
deportations, the army purges, the Katyn massacre, the millions dead
in the Gulags and so on. Not to mention the millions destroyed by
Lenin. If I were you, I wouldn't be talking too much about the US and
early wars with Indians...
>
>> Why worry about hypersonic cruise missiles, Satans with inefficient
>> 20mt warheads and the like? Just rely on unstoppable armageddon
>
>Don't worry, take one more opioid pill and tell me more funny things.
I don't take drugs of any kind, nor smoke, nor drink alcohol. I have
no dependencies and I'm completely realistic and pragmatic. The truth
of the matter is, your gangster overlord is a lying festering sore on
the face of this planet as is being exposed right now by Theresa May
after Putin has left a trail of poisoned bodies across Europe (he
wouldn't have the balls to assasinate someone on US territory). Right
now, Russia and all it stands for is rightly condemned by the entire
planet (except for puppets like Kadyrov) and slowly but surely
becoming completely isolated - it is a cancer. Don't forget MH17 and
the children men and women on that plane shot down with a Russian BUK
over eastern Ukraine...
Putin keeps pushing but sooner or later he will push over the line and
then he, you and all the other gangsters in that benighted country
will pay.
wrote:
>thang ornerythinchus, <news:acfead50devf10qa6...@4ax.com>
>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 15:48:04 +0300, "Oleg Smirnov" <os...@netc.eu>
>>> Byker the Shithead, <news:E56dnX3NcePC2TnH...@supernews.com>
>
>>>> I suppose Putin will now be boasting about ICBMs rolling off assembly lines
>>>> "like sausages"...
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruPYfofbpdU>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJzbzMa0-zE>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqfIZxu2urM>
>>>
>>> Watch: "Russian Aerospace Forces launch missile of Kinzhal system"
>>
>> Joke of course.
>
>This little missile rather makes the big aircraft carriers a joke.
are also symbolically prestigious. The latter factor is far more
important to "projection" of power, the difference in said power being
apparent when one flies over Manhattan -v- when one flies over Moscow.
I know English is your second language but don't you think "big
aircraft carriers" is a little redundant?
>
>> The Yanks could pull one of these our of their asses
>> in a nanosecond if they considered it worthwhile - but why worry when
>> your entire POS country is ringed by Ohio's with advanced rocketry
>> sufficient to vaporize every conurbation with population >100K across
>> those 12 time zones.
>>
>> There are 12 cities in Russia, population >1 million.
>> 201 cities population 100K -> 1 million.
>> 1292 towns/cities population 10K -> 100K
>>
>> The 14 Ohios have between them, say, (24 * 12) = ~4,000 MIRVed 450kt
>> warheads...
>>
>> After reducing Russia to the stone age, if that, by removing every
>> gathering of warmongering scum with population >10K, there would
>> *still* be ~2,500 warheads left for cleaning up purposes.
>
>So I see that the main American interest is about extermination of
>civilians (and they already did it by genociding out the natives of
>North America). However, Russian military assets aren't concentrated
>in the cities. American attacks on the cities won't harm the military
>but rather make them more angry. Also you should become aware of the
>fact that the Russian cities are protected with air and anti-missile
>defense that is way better than the American one (so that even the US
>'allies' seek to buy the anti-missile systems in Russia while the US
>government exerts incredible pressure to prevent them from that).
about them.
As far as genocide goes, there is a saying "the pot calling the kettle
black". Your compatriots tried to destroy Ukraine in the 1930's,
causing uncounted millions of deaths through collectivisation. They
made a secret pact with Hitler, a sworn enemy, to partition Poland
knowing full well what Hitler would do to the German side. Then,
there was the Kulak deportations, the Chechen deportations, the German
deportations, the army purges, the Katyn massacre, the millions dead
in the Gulags and so on. Not to mention the millions destroyed by
Lenin. If I were you, I wouldn't be talking too much about the US and
early wars with Indians...
>
>> Why worry about hypersonic cruise missiles, Satans with inefficient
>> 20mt warheads and the like? Just rely on unstoppable armageddon
>
>Don't worry, take one more opioid pill and tell me more funny things.
no dependencies and I'm completely realistic and pragmatic. The truth
of the matter is, your gangster overlord is a lying festering sore on
the face of this planet as is being exposed right now by Theresa May
after Putin has left a trail of poisoned bodies across Europe (he
wouldn't have the balls to assasinate someone on US territory). Right
now, Russia and all it stands for is rightly condemned by the entire
planet (except for puppets like Kadyrov) and slowly but surely
becoming completely isolated - it is a cancer. Don't forget MH17 and
the children men and women on that plane shot down with a Russian BUK
over eastern Ukraine...
Putin keeps pushing but sooner or later he will push over the line and
then he, you and all the other gangsters in that benighted country
will pay.
Oleg Smirnov
Mar 15, 2018, 3:41:29 AM3/15/18
to
Looks like one more kind of Jonathan has emerged.
thang ornerythinchus, <news:db7jad1k8afd7v2bp...@4ax.com>
thang ornerythinchus, <news:db7jad1k8afd7v2bp...@4ax.com>
> On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 11:52:03 +0300, "Oleg Smirnov" <os...@netc.eu>
Juergen Nieveler
Mar 15, 2018, 4:08:03 AM3/15/18
to
On 14.03.2018 19:35, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> Burnout of an SS-26 is only Mach 6 (vice the claimed Mach 10) and it's
> not under power for most of its flight, so not maneuvering. It also
> can't reach anything like the range Putin claimed. If it really is
> just an SS-26 on an airplane, then it's not as big a deal. But if it
> can fly at Mach 10 under power for the long range Putin gave, it's a
> BIG problem.
An SS-26 starts its flight at 0 km/h, and has to climb first. This new
> Burnout of an SS-26 is only Mach 6 (vice the claimed Mach 10) and it's
> not under power for most of its flight, so not maneuvering. It also
> can't reach anything like the range Putin claimed. If it really is
> just an SS-26 on an airplane, then it's not as big a deal. But if it
> can fly at Mach 10 under power for the long range Putin gave, it's a
> BIG problem.
missile gets launched by a plane capable of almost Mach 3, and only goes
downward... if they can launch at that speed, that would result in a
higher top speed for the missile as well. Wether it's enough to get to
Mach 10 at high altitude or not would remain to be seen, but it will
definitely be quite a bit faster than a ground-launched Iskander.
And you don't need to have the engine running to maneuver - Iskander
reportedly has terminal guidance, and thus IS able to maneuver after
engine burnout. According to Wackypedia, it uses control vanes in the
exhaust during boost, but aerodynamic and gas-dynamic systems later in
the flight phase.
--
Juergen Nieveler
thang ornerythinchus
Mar 15, 2018, 4:08:22 AM3/15/18
to
On Thu, 15 Mar 2018 10:40:34 +0300, "Oleg Smirnov" <os...@netc.eu>
wrote:
>Looks like one more kind of Jonathan has emerged.
Usenet phenomenon - when faced with unarguable facts and unavoidable
truth, top post nonsense as a deflection.
I have an axe to grind with you Russians after the MH17 banditry and
after seeing your filthy cousins plundering the corpses of little kids
and women and men shot down by the BUK on their way home from
holidays.
Putin's days are numbered. It's likely he'll be despatched by his
own cronies as is the usual way of the world in the Kremlin. In the
old days, it would have been feet first into the ovens of the Lubianka
without the saving grace of a 9mm parabellum to the nape of the neck -
Beria and his contemporaries were experts in those pre-KGB days. Putin
is likely to just disappear however. His hold is tenuous.
While you're on the matter of sophisticated weaponry, google Virginia
class Block V attack submarine. These really are marvels of
technology for which Russia has, nor will have, any counterpart.
wrote:
>Looks like one more kind of Jonathan has emerged.
truth, top post nonsense as a deflection.
I have an axe to grind with you Russians after the MH17 banditry and
after seeing your filthy cousins plundering the corpses of little kids
and women and men shot down by the BUK on their way home from
holidays.
Putin's days are numbered. It's likely he'll be despatched by his
own cronies as is the usual way of the world in the Kremlin. In the
old days, it would have been feet first into the ovens of the Lubianka
without the saving grace of a 9mm parabellum to the nape of the neck -
Beria and his contemporaries were experts in those pre-KGB days. Putin
is likely to just disappear however. His hold is tenuous.
While you're on the matter of sophisticated weaponry, google Virginia
class Block V attack submarine. These really are marvels of
technology for which Russia has, nor will have, any counterpart.
Oleg Smirnov
Mar 15, 2018, 4:35:48 AM3/15/18
to
thang ornerythinchus, <news:t19kadt81n3mlkns3...@4ax.com>
speech is a passionate and agitatated mixture of various nonsenses, and
this all in one is an incoherent hateful mess.
If you want to discuss some topic on the merits, then you're welcome.
>> Looks like one more kind of Jonathan has emerged.
>
> Usenet phenomenon - when faced with unarguable facts and unavoidable
> truth, top post nonsense as a deflection.
I'm in no way afraid of discussion on any topic I know about, but your
>
> Usenet phenomenon - when faced with unarguable facts and unavoidable
> truth, top post nonsense as a deflection.
speech is a passionate and agitatated mixture of various nonsenses, and
this all in one is an incoherent hateful mess.
If you want to discuss some topic on the merits, then you're welcome.
Fred J. McCall
Mar 15, 2018, 7:05:20 AM3/15/18
to
Juergen Nieveler <jue...@nieveler.org> wrote on Thu, 15 Mar 2018
08:23:28 +0100:
>On 14.03.2018 19:35, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> Burnout of an SS-26 is only Mach 6 (vice the claimed Mach 10) and it's
>> not under power for most of its flight, so not maneuvering. It also
>> can't reach anything like the range Putin claimed. If it really is
>> just an SS-26 on an airplane, then it's not as big a deal. But if it
>> can fly at Mach 10 under power for the long range Putin gave, it's a
>> BIG problem.
>
>An SS-26 starts its flight at 0 km/h, and has to climb first. This new
>missile gets launched by a plane capable of almost Mach 3, and only goes
>downward... if they can launch at that speed, that would result in a
>higher top speed for the missile as well. Wether it's enough to get to
>Mach 10 at high altitude or not would remain to be seen, but it will
>definitely be quite a bit faster than a ground-launched Iskander.
>
No way the plane is going to do anything close to Mach 3 with that big
an external store loaded. And they're certainly not going to be able
to launch it at anything like those speeds if it could fly that fast
with it hung. Yes, you get some amount of 'head start' by launching
from an airplane, but it's not going to get you from Mach 6 to Mach
10.
>
>And you don't need to have the engine running to maneuver - Iskander
>reportedly has terminal guidance, and thus IS able to maneuver after
>engine burnout. According to Wackypedia, it uses control vanes in the
>exhaust during boost, but aerodynamic and gas-dynamic systems later in
>the flight phase.
>
Yes, you can do some amount of maneuvering that way, but it's pretty
limited. That's why MARV warheads have relatively small footprints.
08:23:28 +0100:
>On 14.03.2018 19:35, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> Burnout of an SS-26 is only Mach 6 (vice the claimed Mach 10) and it's
>> not under power for most of its flight, so not maneuvering. It also
>> can't reach anything like the range Putin claimed. If it really is
>> just an SS-26 on an airplane, then it's not as big a deal. But if it
>> can fly at Mach 10 under power for the long range Putin gave, it's a
>> BIG problem.
>
>An SS-26 starts its flight at 0 km/h, and has to climb first. This new
>missile gets launched by a plane capable of almost Mach 3, and only goes
>downward... if they can launch at that speed, that would result in a
>higher top speed for the missile as well. Wether it's enough to get to
>Mach 10 at high altitude or not would remain to be seen, but it will
>definitely be quite a bit faster than a ground-launched Iskander.
>
an external store loaded. And they're certainly not going to be able
to launch it at anything like those speeds if it could fly that fast
with it hung. Yes, you get some amount of 'head start' by launching
from an airplane, but it's not going to get you from Mach 6 to Mach
10.
>
>And you don't need to have the engine running to maneuver - Iskander
>reportedly has terminal guidance, and thus IS able to maneuver after
>engine burnout. According to Wackypedia, it uses control vanes in the
>exhaust during boost, but aerodynamic and gas-dynamic systems later in
>the flight phase.
>
limited. That's why MARV warheads have relatively small footprints.
george152
Mar 15, 2018, 3:19:51 PM3/15/18
to
'diplomatic' demands then
Juergen Nieveler
Mar 16, 2018, 3:08:07 AM3/16/18
to
On 15.03.2018 12:05, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> An SS-26 starts its flight at 0 km/h, and has to climb first. This new
>> missile gets launched by a plane capable of almost Mach 3, and only goes
>> downward... if they can launch at that speed, that would result in a
>> higher top speed for the missile as well. Wether it's enough to get to
>> Mach 10 at high altitude or not would remain to be seen, but it will
>> definitely be quite a bit faster than a ground-launched Iskander.
>>
>
> No way the plane is going to do anything close to Mach 3 with that big
> an external store loaded. And they're certainly not going to be able
> to launch it at anything like those speeds if it could fly that fast
> with it hung. Yes, you get some amount of 'head start' by launching
> from an airplane, but it's not going to get you from Mach 6 to Mach
> 10.
However, the speed of the launch platform seems to matter - otherwise,
>> An SS-26 starts its flight at 0 km/h, and has to climb first. This new
>> missile gets launched by a plane capable of almost Mach 3, and only goes
>> downward... if they can launch at that speed, that would result in a
>> higher top speed for the missile as well. Wether it's enough to get to
>> Mach 10 at high altitude or not would remain to be seen, but it will
>> definitely be quite a bit faster than a ground-launched Iskander.
>>
>
> No way the plane is going to do anything close to Mach 3 with that big
> an external store loaded. And they're certainly not going to be able
> to launch it at anything like those speeds if it could fly that fast
> with it hung. Yes, you get some amount of 'head start' by launching
> from an airplane, but it's not going to get you from Mach 6 to Mach
> 10.
why bother using a Mig-31? A Backfire or Blackjack would have made more
sense, the Mig-31 is not really known as a bomber (and has short legs..)
But the Tupolevs are slower - so the new air-launched Iskander wouldn't
have made much of a difference compared to existing ASMs the bombers carry.
Unless of course the whole thing is a maskirovska ;-)
>> And you don't need to have the engine running to maneuver - Iskander
>> reportedly has terminal guidance, and thus IS able to maneuver after
>> engine burnout. According to Wackypedia, it uses control vanes in the
>> exhaust during boost, but aerodynamic and gas-dynamic systems later in
>> the flight phase.
>>
>
> Yes, you can do some amount of maneuvering that way, but it's pretty
> limited. That's why MARV warheads have relatively small footprints.
evade interception, not to use deceptive routes like a cruise missile
would.
--
Juergen Nieveler
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