Year 1942 Filipinos are reclassified as US citizens
Kayumanggi
to the States and become US citizens?
Please visit these 3 different links and read the 1942 timelines, that
say, "Year 1942 Filipinos are reclassified as US citizens."
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/historyonline/immigration_chron.cfm
http://schools.nycenet.edu/csd1/museums/timelines/timeline.html
http://www.immigrantvoice.org/programs/files/immigration_timeline.pdf
Can this help interested Filipinos to immigrate to America and become
US citizens? Coz their Grandparents and parents were natural born US
citizens too, coz of being born at the exact time all Filipinos were
reclassified as US citizens. Could a Filipino born today apply for US
citizenship under pursuing this case with the above facts? Is this a
form of racial discrimination case of the pre black civil rights US
government? What steps must one do to become a US citizen in this
case?
For 300 years the Philippines was a Spanish colony. In 1898 the US
acquired the Philippines from Spain. From 1898 to 1946 the
Philippines was a US territory.
In 1898 up to 1935 all Filipinos are recognized as US citizens. In
fact, 300,000+ European Spanish (white skinned) descended Filipinos
immigrated to the States with no sweat at all during that time frame.
They were very much European than Asian, hence they assimilated pretty
easy in the US, and the pre black civil rights US government had no
problem regarding them as regular Americans coz they are white skinned
Spanish Filipinos. They immigrated to the States before the great
depression.
In 1935, most white Filipinos had already immigrated to the States and
all that was left in the Philippines were the brown Filipinos. I
guess, by that time, the pre black civil rights US government began to
have objection in considering brown colored Filipinos as US citizens.
So with the help of the Haciendero elite dominated Philippine
commonwealth government, laws were passed that will pave the way for a
gradual transition for Philippine independence, and this also removed
the US citizenship of Filipinos without their individual consent. In
that time, majority of Filipinos were still genuine jungle people who
can't read and write, living in remote places.
At the start of WWII, Filipinos are again "reclassified" as US
citizens to allow them to join the US military to help fight the
Japanese. And after the war and in 1946 (Philippine Independence), US
citizenship of the Filipinos was removed again without their
individual consent. But at that time, majority of ordinary Filipinos
don't want independence from the US, coz they grown to love the
friendship with Americans. Until now, it's easier for an ordinary
Filipino to relate to Americans than to interact with snobbish elite
Filipinos. Sure, you will say the US was an imperial master, but so
as the Spanish/Chinese bred Filipino elite haciendero families who
control Philippine politics. In fact, immediately after independence,
those same elite Filipinos who favor independence immediately started
to land grab the ancestral lands of indigenous Filipinos. The posh
areas today in Manila (Philippine capital) were ancestral lands of
indigenous Filipinos stolen by the elite Chinese/Spanish bred Filipino
families through land grabbing after Philippine independence from the
US. And these are the same elite families who eagerly supported
Philippine independence. The squatters in Manila that you see today
are the true owners of those posh properties.
After Philippine independence the Haciendero Filipino elite families
took advantage of the illiterate Filipinos. Philippine independence
was for their own benefit. In fact, the elite businessmen politicians
of the Philippines today are not interested to implement the Jury
System in the Philippines. To finally give ordinary Filipinos power
over big fish crime and corruption issues, that are always just
dismissed by concerted delaying tactics of the Filipino elite
community who control everything in the Philippines. Well obviously,
why would they help create something that will lead to their own
downfall.
So again, can this help an interested Filipino to immigrate to America
and become a US citizen? Coz their Grandparents and parents were
natural born US citizens too, coz of being born at the exact time all
Filipinos were reclassified as US citizens. Could a Filipino born
today apply for US citizenship under pursuing this case with the above
facts? Is this a form of racial discrimination case of the pre black
civil rights US government? What steps must one do to become a US
citizen in this case?
Ingo Pakleppa
law, my guess is that the reasoning will be roughly along the lines that
US citizenship was not taken away in this case. Rather, it was split in
two separate citizenships, namely the Philippine citizenship and the US
citizenship. So everybody kept their citizenship.
That is, if Filipinos even were US citizens. I'm not sure if that is true.
There is a provision in immigration law (INA 326) that seems to suggest
that Filipinos indeed were NOT US citizens (but may have been nationals
instead):
Sec. 326. [8 U.S.C. 1437] Any person who (1) was a citizen of the
Commonwealth of the Philippines on July 2, 1946, (2) entered the United
States prior to May 1, 1934, and (3) has, since such entry, resided
continuously in the United States shall be regarded as having been
lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence for the
purpose of applying for naturalization under this title. <<
I can't see how discrimination would play into this at all.
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Kayumanggi
further research their site to determine their credibility. So, that
makes me sure they're not making a typo error when they simultaneously
said Filipinos are reclassified as US "citizens" not US "nationals."
This may be a racial discrimination issue, coz in those days, majority
of ordinary Filipinos wanted to remain as US citizens, (coz again,
they don't want to end up being governed by the snobbish Filipino
Haciendero elite families once the Philippines gained independence)
but despite that, after the year 1946 (Philippine independence) only
50 Filipinos per year (quota) were allowed to regain their US
citizenship and immigrate to the US mainland. And as far as I know,
(if a person did not commit any crime or treason, then) only the
individual has the sole right to decide whether he/she wants to
renounce or maintain his/her US citizenship once a person is already a
US citizen in the first place by either by birth, naturalization, or
with the Filipinos' case by the decree of the US government itself.
You know, today's US laws are very sensitive to individual rights, and
because Filipinos born prior to Philippine independence (1946) are
still alive today, then maybe they can reclaim their US citizenship
that were stripped away from them without their individual consent.
If the US government can give and take away the US citizenship of the
Filipinos through unorthodox ways, then maybe Filipinos can reclaim
their US citizenship through unorthodox ways too.
Ingo Pakleppa
> I think those American history sites are quite credible. You may
> further research their site to determine their credibility. So, that
> makes me sure they're not making a typo error when they simultaneously
> said Filipinos are reclassified as US "citizens" not US "nationals."
>
> This may be a racial discrimination issue, coz in those days, majority
> of ordinary Filipinos wanted to remain as US citizens, (coz again, they
> don't want to end up being governed by the snobbish Filipino Haciendero
> elite families once the Philippines gained independence)
Whether or not they wanted to retain their US citizenship is plain
immaterial in this kind of situation. Until 1946, apparently there was no
Filipino citizenship, and independence is the one situation where you
could end up with a non-US citizenship. This would be no different if,
say, Puerto Rico gained independence. For that matter, it was similar in
the case of several Pacific Islands that gained independence over the past
30 years or so.
Basically, the idea is that you can't have it both ways: if you want
independence (and obviously the Philippines as a whole did want
independence), then it also goes with its own citizenship, not US
citizenship.
> but despite that, after the year 1946 (Philippine independence) only 50
> Filipinos per year (quota) were allowed to regain their US citizenship
> and immigrate to the US mainland.
Actually, the quota is around 26000 per year (and has been in that range
since the 1950s), and this number is indeed exhausted for the Philippines
(as well as for Mexico, and in some years China and India). Also, somebody
who immigrates to the US does not automatically become a citizen! In the
case of Filipinos, they would remain Filipino citizens even after
immigrating to the US, and would receive US citizenship only upon
naturalization, five years later at the earliest.
> And as far as I know, (if a person did not commit any crime or treason,
> then) only the individual has the sole right to decide whether he/she
> wants to renounce or maintain his/her US citizenship once a person is
> already a US citizen in the first place by either by birth,
> naturalization, or with the Filipinos' case by the decree of the US
> government itself.
See above; independence is a special case because it is not a LOSS of
citizenship, but rather a conversion.
> You know, today's US laws are very sensitive to individual rights, and
> because Filipinos born prior to Philippine independence (1946) are still
> alive today, then maybe they can reclaim their US citizenship that were
> stripped away from them without their individual consent.
There is nothing that keeps you from hiring an attorney and trying. But my
guess is that the legal theory is extremely shaky. This is the kind of
thing that would almost certainly end up in the Supreme Court, and I can't
see it surviving there.
matrix
1. Acquired from Spain by treaty effective April 11, 1899 (Spanish American
War)
2. Inhabitants of the Philippine Islands acquired U.S. nationality on that
date, except for Spanish subjects who took affirmative steps to retain
Spanish allegiance.
3. Children born in the Philippine Island after April 11, 1899, and prior to
January 13, 1941, acquired U.S. nationality at birth; provided their parents
acquired and retained U.S. nationality pursuant to the treaty.
4. Children born in the Philippine Islands on of after January 13, 1941, and
prior to July 4, 1946, acquired U.S. nationality at birth; provided at least
one parent was a national of the United states at the time of the child's
birth.
5. The Philippine Islands became an independent nation July 4, 1946, and all
Philippine citizens ***LOST*** U.S. nationality status on that date whether
they were residing in the islands or the United States.
"Kayumanggi" <kma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0b4fa2d.03071...@posting.google.com...
Rich Wales
> > I think those American history sites are quite
> > credible.
I disagree. The sites you cited have, in and of themselves, no
credibility at all. There's no way, for example, that you could
convince the State Dept. or any federal court to rule in your
favor on the basis of any (or even all three) of these sites.
You need to go find the primary sources -- the federal statutes
and regulations as they existed in 1942 -- and see exactly what
=they= said at the time in question. Unfortunately, the source
of the three sites (and, given the similarities between them,
I wouldn't be at all surprised if they all drew from a single
common source) doesn't appear to have included references to the
statutes or regulations.
Failing something definite to the contrary in 1942-vintage US
law, I would tend to assume that Filipinos were considered to be
nationals, but not citizens, of the US -- and that the common
source of the three history sites simply garbled the distinction
between a US citizen and a non-citizen US national.
Ingo Pakleppa wrote:
> independence is the one situation where you could
> end up with a non-US citizenship. This would be no
> different if, say, Puerto Rico gained independence.
I'm not at all certain, FWIW, that Puerto Rican independence would
necessarily lead to involuntary loss of US citizenship by Puerto
Ricans. Given that Puerto Rico is considered just as much a part
of the US nowadays as, say, the District of Columbia, I can easily
see the courts concluding that the 14th Amendment's "citizenship
clause" applies to Puerto Ricans.
> For that matter, it was similar in the case of several
> Pacific Islands that gained independence over the past
> 30 years or so.
Those Pacific islands, IIRC, were classified in US law as "outlying
possessions" -- which meant that their inhabitants were non-citizen
US nationals, rather than US citizens.
At present, BTW, the only remaining "outlying possessions" of the
US are American Samoa and Swains Island. The inhabitants of Puerto
Rico (and, for that matter, the US Virgin Islands and Guam) are
explicitly defined in current US law as being full-fledged citizens
of the US.
Rich Wales ri...@richw.org http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
*DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant,
or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and
are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.
Rich Wales
Philippines acquired "U.S. nationality", and then lost it in 1946
when the Philippines became independent.
If the original sources (statutes and/or regulations) from which
"matrix" got this information did in fact say "nationality", and
not "citizenship", this would strongly suggest that Filipinos
were in fact nationals (but not citizens) of the US -- just as
the inhabitants of American Samoa are today.
If "matrix" can cite the source of his material, I for one would
be most grateful.
Kayumanggi
> Philippine Islands:
>
> 1. Acquired from Spain by treaty effective April 11, 1899 (Spanish American
> War)
>
> 2. Inhabitants of the Philippine Islands acquired U.S. nationality on that
> date, except for Spanish subjects who took affirmative steps to retain
> Spanish allegiance.
>
> 3. Children born in the Philippine Island after April 11, 1899, and prior to
> January 13, 1941, acquired U.S. nationality at birth; provided their parents
> acquired and retained U.S. nationality pursuant to the treaty.
>
> 4. Children born in the Philippine Islands on of after January 13, 1941, and
> prior to July 4, 1946, acquired U.S. nationality at birth; provided at least
> one parent was a national of the United states at the time of the child's
> birth.
>
> 5. The Philippine Islands became an independent nation July 4, 1946, and all
> Philippine citizens ***LOST*** U.S. nationality status on that date whether
> they were residing in the islands or the United States.
I'm aware of that data. For years that's my knowledge of it. But
suddenly I came across or discovered these very credible American
history sites, stating that in 1942 Filipinos are "reclassified" as US
"citizens" not US "nationals." And when you say "reclassified" that
means Filipinos were already classified previously as US "citizens"
not US "nationals." You know, these are websites of quite credible
organizations, (you may further research their site to determine their
credibility as I did) for sure they know the difference between US
"citizens" and US "nationals." Actually, some of the people running
those American history sites are themselves the actual leading
custodians and experts on American history. <Shrug>
Kayumanggi
for about 200 years. And the Roman citizens throughout the Middle
East are now all dead too for about 2,000 years. But all Filipinos
who were given US citizenship by decree of the US government between
the years 1942 to 1946 are still alive today.
Of course, Filipinos born after 1946 (Philippine independence) until
the present are not US citizens. But those Filipinos who were alive
and born between 1942 and 1946 were US citizens by decree of the US
government. And if a person did not commit any crime or treason, then
only the individual US citizen can decide whether to renounce or
maintain his/her US citizenship.
We're not talking about Filipinos wanting to have dual citizenship
here, or wanting to have US citizenship while permanently living in
the Philippines. No Sir, not like that. It's more like this, for
example, if the State of California declares independence, then the
people of California will be given the individual right to choose
whether they want to renounce or maintain their US citizenship,
individually. And if an individual choose to remain as a US citizen,
then the US government must assist them to resettle to a US territory.
But sadly, that kind of individual option and resettlement assistance
were not given to the Filipino-Americans who are interested to remain
as US citizens and immigrate to the US mainland before 1946
(Philippine independence) happens. Even though those Filipinos did
seek the help of the US government for resettlement to a US territory,
sadly, the pre black civil rights US government ignored them. Well, I
guess the pre black civil rights US government ignored these
Filipino-Americans coz the pre black civil rights US government
doesn't want colored people to swarm into the US mainland during the
pre black civil rights era. Don't want colored people to outnumber
the whites in the US mainland.
Again, we're not talking about Filipinos wanting to have dual
citizenship here, or wanting to have US citizenship while permanently
living in the Philippines. We're talking about a group of Filipinos,
(majority of ordinary Filipinos) before Philippine independence (1946)
who don't want to become Filipino citizens in the first place but
instead wanted to remain as US citizens and then resettle or immigrate
to the US mainland before Philippines independence (1946) happens.
And these Filipinos did ask the US government for resettlement
assistance to a US territory but was ignored and left behind by the
pre black civil rights US government. The US government itself
decreed that Filipinos are US citizens between 1942 and 1946! So why
didn't the US government help these Filipino-Americans to resettle in
a US territory before Philippine independence (1946) happened?
Anyway, coz it's the job of the US government to take care of US
citizens whether they are US citizens by birth, US citizens by
naturalization, or US citizens by decree as in the Filipinos' case in
1942. Well again, I guess the pre black civil rights US government
ignored these Filipino-Americans coz the pre black civil rights US
government doesn't want colored people to swarm into the US mainland
during the pre black civil rights era. Don't want colored people to
outnumber the whites in the US mainland.
Majority of ordinary Filipinos prior to 1946 (Philippine independence)
don't want independence. Only the Filipino elite were eager and
wanted independence, they control the politics and media in the
Philippines. Ordinary Filipinos have no voice in those days. The
Filipino elite doesn't want the American Jury System to be installed
in the Philippines coz they will end up in jail.
And as US citizens, they (the Filipinos who lived and born between
1942 and 1946) have the right to be assisted by the US government, if
they wanted to immigrate or resettle to the US mainland before
Philippine independence (1946) happens. Coz it's the responsibility
of the US government to take good care of all US citizens. And do
whatever the US government can to assist all American citizens no
matter where they are, no matter how they have legally acquired their
US citizenship, no matter how many they are, what color they are, and
how much money they have.
Ingo Pakleppa
> "Kayumanggi" wrote:
>
> > > I think those American history sites are quite credible.
>
> I disagree. The sites you cited have, in and of themselves, no
> credibility at all. There's no way, for example, that you could
> convince the State Dept. or any federal court to rule in your favor on
> the basis of any (or even all three) of these sites. You need to go find
> the primary sources -- the federal statutes and regulations as they
> existed in 1942 -- and see exactly what =they= said at the time in
> question. Unfortunately, the source of the three sites (and, given the
> similarities between them, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they all
> drew from a single common source) doesn't appear to have included
> references to the statutes or regulations.
>
> Failing something definite to the contrary in 1942-vintage US law, I
> would tend to assume that Filipinos were considered to be nationals, but
> not citizens, of the US -- and that the common source of the three
> history sites simply garbled the distinction between a US citizen and a
> non-citizen US national.
A quick google search came up with a couple of sites that indicate that
the US passed two separate laws addressing Filipino citizenship, both
around the time of independence of the Philippines.
The first one allowed Filipino veterans of the US military to become US
citizens. The other was the Filipino Citizenship Act, which became law on
July 3, 1946 (I believe the day of Philippine independence).
Unfortunately, this seems to be almost a googlewhack; there was only a
single hit searching for it.
I have been unable to find out exactly what it says, but the BCIS Web site
mentions it as
60. Act of July 2, 1946 (60 Statutes-at-Large 416)
Amended the Immigration Act of 1917, granting the privilege of admission
to the United States as quota immigrants and eligibility for
naturalization races indigenous to India and persons of Filipino descent.
<<
Incidentally, I have to correct myself. The original poster mentioned a
quota of 50 per year for Filipinos. That turns out to be correct, although
a bit different from the way it originally sounded: from 1934 until the
Filipino Citizenship Act, there indeed was an immigration quota of 50 per
year for Filipinos. The law that established Filipino independence and
this quota was the Tydings-McDuffie Act.
Incidentally, July 4, 1946 was the date Filipino independence was
*completed*. It was started more than ten years earlier (including a
Constitution, and forming the Philippines as a separate country), so even
if the original poster was able to argue his case, he would have to go
back to 1934 rather than 1946.
> Ingo Pakleppa wrote:
>
> > independence is the one situation where you could end up with a
> > non-US citizenship. This would be no different if, say, Puerto
> > Rico gained independence.
>
> I'm not at all certain, FWIW, that Puerto Rican independence would
> necessarily lead to involuntary loss of US citizenship by Puerto Ricans.
> Given that Puerto Rico is considered just as much a part of the US
> nowadays as, say, the District of Columbia, I can easily see the courts
> concluding that the 14th Amendment's "citizenship clause" applies to
> Puerto Ricans.
>
> > For that matter, it was similar in the case of several Pacific
> > Islands that gained independence over the past 30 years or so.
>
> Those Pacific islands, IIRC, were classified in US law as "outlying
> possessions" -- which meant that their inhabitants were non-citizen US
> nationals, rather than US citizens.
>
> At present, BTW, the only remaining "outlying possessions" of the US are
> American Samoa and Swains Island. The inhabitants of Puerto Rico (and,
> for that matter, the US Virgin Islands and Guam) are explicitly defined
> in current US law as being full-fledged citizens of the US.
Actually, people from the Marshall Islands, FSM (Federated States of
Micronesia) and CNMI (Commonwealth of Northern Mariana Islands) and Palau
(freely associated states, or Compact States) are also still US nationals.
Either that, or they have some special status: such citizens are permitted
to enter the US without passport, visa and have employment authorized as
non-immigrants. See http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/diaz.2.ltr.htm
By the way, it doesn't seem widely known at the border patrol that people
in Guam are US citizens. I recently visited Tijuana with a friend from
Guam. On the way back, she was sent to secondary inspection because the
officer didn't believe that a US passport issued in Guam was valid. For
that matter, I don't think these guys were aware of the difference between
citizenship and nationality, either.
Kayumanggi
residing and working in the Philippines were issued regular US citizen
passports from 1898 up to 1946, not US nationals passports but regular
US citizen passports. These are now antique US citizen passports that
Filipinos still have in their possession. I think those antique US
citizen passports alone are already sufficient enough to prove that
Filipinos are US citizens during 1898 up to 1946. Those antique US
citizen passports are to be presented in court someday.
I now believe that classic racial discrimination is to blame for this
present confusion with the status of citizenship of the Filipinos
during US colonization. In those days it is common knowledge that
there was an epic tug of war between the white supremacist Americans
and the colorblind Americans. As was revealed in the historical
movies, to name a few, movies like, "The Tuskegee Airmen" and "Men of
Honor." In those historical movies or true to life stories, we'll see
that there was indeed an epic tug of war between white supremacist
Americans and colorblind Americans, whether it be among politicians,
among military generals, police force, business establishments, among
school faculties, among students, among families, etc.
With the Philippines' case during US colonization, there too was a tug
of war between white supremacist American politicians and colorblind
American politicians regarding the governance and treatment of the
Philippines and Filipinos.
In 1898 I think the US president was Mckinley? Now this US president
promoted what is called "Benevolent Assimilation." Wherein he really
wanted the Filipinos to become assimilated to American society and
become as equal US citizens. Obviously, I will categorize this
president as one of those colorblind politicians I've mentioned. And
I'm sure it's safe to say, this is when the Filipinos were first given
US citizenship.
I think another influence of the colorblind Americans is the fact
that, regular US citizen passports were issued to Filipinos between
1898 to 1946. These antique US citizen passports were issued to
Filipinos who are permanently residing and working in the Philippines
but sometimes have to travel to the US mainland and in other
countries. That's right, even when traveling to other countries
Filipinos were issued US citizen passports not as US nationals. And
are recognized by other countries as US citizens not US nationals coz
of the passport they're carrying. Those passports are now antique US
citizen passports. Antique passports before the 1930's are just made
of plain paper. Only around the middle of the 1930's passports were
issued in the pocket booklet form. And Filipinos still have in
possession of those antique US citizen passports, maybe presented as
evidence in court someday.
Kayumanggi
the year 1942 Filipinos are reclassified as US citizens to allow them
to register in the US military to help fight the Japanese. And if you
further research on one of those American history sites, you will find
that it's supported by some of the actual leading institutions,
custodians, and experts on American history. You know, like, federal
officials, institutions, Pulitzer prize winners, officials of the Bush
administration, university faculties, etc.
Rich Wales
(I'm sorry for Kayumanggi's sake) does NOT support the claim that
inhabitants of the Philippines, in general, are (or ever were)
entitled to US citizenship.
Regarding Filipinos being "reclassified" as US citizens in 1942,
it appears that Congress amended the Nationality Act of 1940 (the
citizenship law of that time) to allow Filipinos who had served
in the US Armed Forces to acquire US citizenship. I found (but
have not yet had time to look up) a cite to United States Statutes
at Large (the massive periodical publication that contains the raw
text of every act of Congress): 56 Stat. 176, 182. This law was
in effect only through the end of 1946.
I haven't been able to find anything from 1942 (or any other time)
granting or acknowledging US citizenship on a blanket basis to all
Filipinos. If Kayumanggi (or anyone else) can find a statute to
that effect, I would like to see it. In any case, Kayumanggi is
simply going to have to get over his dogged insistence on treating
three web sites -- no matter how distinguished the organizations
sponsoring them -- as reliable primary sources of this sort of
information, because no one in the State Department, the BCIS, or
any US court is going to accept anything on a web site as a valid
substitute for a proper cite to statutes enacted by Congress,
regulations from the Executive Branch, or rulings by the Supreme
Court or other courts.
I also found two fairly recent court decisions -- one from the US
Supreme Court, and one from a federal appeals court -- which go
against Kayumanggi's line of argument.
In 1988, the Supreme Court rejected (by an 8-0 vote) claims from 16
WWII-era Filipino veterans of the US Armed Forces that they were
entitled to US citizenship under the aforementioned 1942-46 law,
even though they didn't apply for naturalization until decades
later. INS v. Pangilinan, 486 U.S. 875 (1988). Incidentally, I
would speculate that if there had in fact ever been a recognition
in 1942 that all Filipinos were US citizens, this point would
surely have been mentioned in the Supreme Court's ruling in this
case (but it wasn't). I would encourage Kayumanggi (and others)
to go to www.findlaw.com and study the full opinion of the court
in the Pangilinan case very carefully.
In 1998, a three-judge panel of the Second Circuit Court of Appeals
rejected a claim from a woman that her birth in the Philippines in
1934 meant she had been born in the US and was thus a US citizen
under the 14th Amendment's "citizenship clause". The 2nd Circuit
concluded that the inhabitants of the Philippines were nationals
(not citizens) of the US. Valmonte v. INS, 96-4194 (2nd Cir. 1998).
I haven't had time to look up this case's cite in the Federal
Reporter (F.3d), but you should still be able to find the ruling
in FindLaw by searching the 2nd Circuit files for the docket number
(96-4194). I also haven't had a chance to "shepardize" (cross-
reference) the case to see whether the Supreme Court did anything
with it, but I did try searching for the party name "Valmonte" in
FindLaw's Supreme Court search page, and there wasn't anything,
which suggests either that the 2nd Circuit's decision wasn't
appealed or that the Supreme Court refused to get involved and
allowed the lower court ruling to stand (i.e., denied certiorari).
Now, one could perhaps argue that these court decisions are unjust
(and "wrong" in the moral sense), but no argument of that type is
going to get anywhere at all before the courts, the BCIS, or the
State Dept. If Kayumanggi feels passionately enough about this
cause, I believe his only hope (albeit probably an extremely bleak
one) would be to convince Congress to change the law.
Ingo Pakleppa
> I'm aware of that data. For years that's my knowledge of it. But
> suddenly I came across or discovered these very credible American
> history sites, stating that in 1942 Filipinos are "reclassified" as US
> "citizens" not US "nationals." And when you say "reclassified" that
> means Filipinos were already classified previously as US "citizens" not
> US "nationals." You know, these are websites of quite credible
> organizations, (you may further research their site to determine their
> credibility as I did) for sure they know the difference between US
> "citizens" and US "nationals." Actually, some of the people running
> those American history sites are themselves the actual leading
> custodians and experts on American history. <Shrug>
I suspect that this meant "reclassified for purposes of enlisting in the
military" rather than "granted full citizenship".
Ingo Pakleppa
> Well, the British citizens in the American colonies are now all dead for
> about 200 years. And the Roman citizens throughout the Middle East are
> now all dead too for about 2,000 years. But all Filipinos who were
> given US citizenship by decree of the US government between the years
> 1942 to 1946 are still alive today.
>
> Of course, Filipinos born after 1946 (Philippine independence) until the
> present are not US citizens.
If we stipulate that between 1942 and 1946, all Filipinos were US
citizens, then their children, too, would have inherited citizenship (at
least those whose parents were adults by 1946 and had fulfilled the
residency requirements to pass on citizenship). US citizenship in that
case would have been lost only one generation further down.
> Majority of ordinary Filipinos prior to 1946 (Philippine independence)
> don't want independence. Only the Filipino elite were eager and wanted
> independence, they control the politics and media in the Philippines.
> Ordinary Filipinos have no voice in those days. The Filipino elite
> doesn't want the American Jury System to be installed in the Philippines
> coz they will end up in jail.
This statement contradicts assertions that Filipinos were US citizens.
All this is moot, though - you don't have to convince me, or anybody else
here. You would have to convince a Supreme Court judge.
Michael D. Young
> I did some more research online and found the following, which
> (I'm sorry for Kayumanggi's sake) does NOT support the claim that
> inhabitants of the Philippines, in general, are (or ever were)
> entitled to US citizenship.
Hi All,
Don't know if this is adds anything to the discussion, but there is a
special SSI benefit for WW II veterans from the Philippines and some
military order of the President is cited:
http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/ssact/title08/0812.htm
1) WORLD WAR II VETERAN.--The term "World War II veteran" means a person
who--
(A) served during World War II--
i) in the active military, naval, or air service of the United States
during World War II; or
(ii) in the organized military forces of the Government of the Commonwealth
of the Philippines, while the forces were in the service of the Armed
Forces of the United States pursuant to the military order of the President
dated July 26, 1941, including among the military forces organized
guerrilla forces under commanders appointed, designated, or subsequently
recognized by the Commander in Chief, Southwest Pacific Area, or other
competent authority in the Army of the United States, in any case in which
the service was rendered before December 31, 1946; and
It's under Title VIII of the Social Security Act
http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/ssact/title08/0800.htm
Take care,
Mike :)
Kayumanggi
for this confusion. They're the ones whose contradicted and violated
their own laws. You say, Filipinos are not US citizens in most
statutes. Then why do Filipinos permanently residing and working in
the Philippines issued with regular US citizen passports from 1898 up
to 1946? That are now antique US citizen passports that Filipinos
still have in their possession? (Some of those Filipinos who carried
those antique US citizen passports are still presently living in the
Philippines) When Filipinos travel abroad they are recognized as US
citizens by other countries coz of the US citizen passports they are
carrying! And again, these are Filipinos who are permanently residing
and working in the Philippines from 1898 up to 1946 and are now still
living in the Philippines.
When Filipinos heard of the Valmonte v. INS case in 1998 that's when
they started to dig up their antique US citizen passports, thinking
that it may help someday. Experts have already tested their
authenticity, and they concluded it's genuine. Now if the US
government can be kind enough to disclose the antique records of
Filipinos who traveled abroad in the old days then that would be good
for us. I heard these antique US citizen passports will be presented
as evidence, maybe reopen the Valmonte v. INS case in 1998 due to
having new tangible evidence. Therefore it means there's no Double
Jeopardy.
Again, I'm pretty sure there are official documents stating that in
the year 1942 Filipinos are reclassified as US citizens allowing
civilian Filipinos at that time to quickly enlist in the US military
to help fight the Japanese. Coz I think even the number of Filipinos
who were already enlisted in the US military, even before the war took
place, were not enough to fight the Japanese. And so the US
government made a decree to again reclassify Filipinos as US citizens
to encourage presently civilian Filipinos to enlist in the US military
to help fight the Japanese. I think Japanese invasion of the
Philippines happened in December 3, 1941 a day after the Pearl Harbor
bombing? And so, a month later or the next year in 1942, I guess in
desperate need of supply of soldiers, Filipinos are reclassified again
as US citizens to encourage Filipinos who were presently civilians in
status to be allowed to enlist in the US military as an addition or to
immediately re supply the number of strength of the US military to
help fight the Japanese along with other Americans and with other
Filipinos who were already enlisted even before the war took place.
I think the Filipinos engaged in the Valmonte v. INS case will be
talking to the actual leading experts on American history. The ones
who posted that Year 1942 Filipinos are reclassified as US citizens in
their site. I guess they may call upon those experts to serve as
witness in court regarding this case.
Ingo Pakleppa
decided; Valmonte seems to be a binding legal precendent and says that
between 1899 and 1934, Filipino citizens were US nationals but not
citizens.
http://www.tourolaw.edu/2ndCircuit/February98/96-41940.html
BTW, double jeopardy wouldn't be an issue here - it only applies in
criminal cases.
The fact that other countries recognized Filipino passports as US
passports is plain immaterial here. If the government of Russia declared
all Filipinos Brazilian citizens, would that have any legal effect at all
outside of Russia? Also, note that a passport by itself does not establish
citizenship. Only the underlying facts establish citizenship. Otherwise,
somebody who obtained a US passport through fraud would automatically
become a US citizen. In this case, the fact that Filipinos were issued
regular US passports merely proves one thing: that US passports were
issued to both citizens and nationals.
--
Kayumanggi
yet. Indeed you're right, the law needs to be changed. Actually,
this is, about changing the pre black civil rights era laws and
policies regarding the Filipinos. About laws and policies that are
contradicting with other laws and policies. Like, it's written that
Filipinos are not US citizens but why are Filipinos issued with
regular US citizen passports? Why are Filipinos documented as US
citizens when traveling coz of the US citizen passports they're
carrying?
Obviously, you are all relying on the very laws and policies that are
actually needed to be changed. Laws that need to be straightened out.
Policies that were created or was descended on previous laws that
were weaved during the time when racial discrimination was rampant and
regular within all sectors of the United States. You know, the epic
tug of war between white supremacist Americans and colorblind
Americans in all sectors of American society during the pre black
civil rights era. Which are presented in the historical or true to
life movies like the "Tuskegee Air Men" and "Men of Honor the movie,"
etc.
Indeed this US citizenship for the Filipinos issue is no different
from the black civil rights movement, the women's right (gender
equality) movement, and the Native American rights movement, etc etc.
I know, I know. Filipinos are several decades behind in fighting for
their rights in America. You know, the Black civil rights, Native
American rights, Women's right movement have already won decades ago.
But you gotta understand those movements have an advantage coz they
were inside the US mainland, that's why their antagonists had a
difficult time subduing them. But with the Filipinos case, the white
supremacists were able to pin the Filipinos down coz Filipinos were
not inside the US mainland to fight for their rights, unlike the
Blacks, Women, and Native Americans were privileged to have.
There is some kind of Filipino-American rights movement in the
Philippines. I think they are now let's say in a kind of first stage
communication with the US Congress and the US Supreme Court. I have
yet to check them out on how far their current progress is.
Kayumanggi
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:41:31 -0700, Kayumanggi wrote:
>
> > I'm aware of that data. For years that's my knowledge of it. But
> > suddenly I came across or discovered these very credible American
> > history sites, stating that in 1942 Filipinos are "reclassified" as US
> > "citizens" not US "nationals." And when you say "reclassified" that
> > means Filipinos were already classified previously as US "citizens" not
> > US "nationals." You know, these are websites of quite credible
> > organizations, (you may further research their site to determine their
> > credibility as I did) for sure they know the difference between US
> > "citizens" and US "nationals." Actually, some of the people running
> > those American history sites are themselves the actual leading
> > custodians and experts on American history. <Shrug>
>
> I suspect that this meant "reclassified for purposes of enlisting in the
> military" rather than "granted full citizenship".
I think the Filipinos are speedily granted full citizenship to enable
them to quickly enlist as regular US military, due to America's
desperate need of new military recruits at that time.
Rich Wales
> Like, it's written that Filipinos are not US citizens
They aren't. At least, not in general. Those Filipinos who have
emigrated to the US and have been naturalized -- or who were born
in the US -- or, in some cases, those who have an American parent
-- would of course be exceptions.
> but why are Filipinos issued with regular US citizen
> passports?
They aren't. At least, not since 1946.
I assume you're talking about Filipinos who were issued US pass-
ports prior to 1946 -- in which case you may have accidentally used
"are" instead of "were" in your question. Are you absolutely sure
that those passports do =not= say that the bearer is a "national"
of the US? Don't answer this question unless you've actually seen
one of these passports with your own eyes. If you have, please let
us know =exactly= what it says.
Note that =current= US passports refer to the bearer as a "citizen /
national of the United States" -- a phraseology commonly understood
as meaning that the bearer could be =either= a US citizen =or= a
(non-citizen) US national. Present-day inhabitants of American
Samoa, for example, can get US passports, even though most of them
are not US citizens, but are instead non-citizen nationals of the US.
> Why are Filipinos documented as US citizens when traveling
> coz of the US citizen passports they're carrying?
Any US passport which was issued to anyone prior to 1946 would have
expired decades ago. There is no possible way that a traveller
could successfully use a US passport from that time period for
international travel today -- unless the immigration officials in
whatever countries they were travelling to were totally lazy and
incompetent.
Kayumanggi
or possibly the changing of existing laws. Coz even actual US
immigration experts say that it is a contradiction, issuing Filipinos
US citizen passports that are strictly for US citizens only, is indeed
a contradiction to the belief that Filipinos were just US nationals.
So, this needs clarification. And now were finding documents from
actual leading custodians and experts of American history, (who will
serve as witnesses in court someday) stating that Filipinos are
reclassified as US citizens in 1942, is also a major contradiction.
You know, what's the deal here? So, we must ask for clarification and
possibly for the changing of existing laws.
Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that Double Jeopardy was only for criminal
cases. I'm not a lawyer myself. <shrug> :-) But anyway, I think
there are still 11 (eleven) circuit courts to try this case? Or there
are 11 more chances to try this case. And of course, there's also the
US Congress and the US Supreme Court, wherein in my last knowledge the
Filipino-American rights movement or the Back to American Citizenship
movement or whatever they call it, is already in the first stages of
communication with regarding this matter.
Rich Wales
> even actual US immigration experts say that it is a
> contradiction, issuing Filipinos US citizen passports
> that are strictly for US citizens only, is indeed a
> contradiction to the belief that Filipinos were just
> US nationals.
Please find one of these passports and read =every= =word= to see
if the passport really, REALLY says the bearer is a US =citizen=
(and not a "citizen or national", "citizen / national", etc.).
If the passport contains both English and some other language
(such as French -- US passports have contained both English and
French for a long time, and I believe current US passports have
Spanish now as well), look at the wording in the other language
too. For example, my US passport (issued in 1995) calls the
bearer a "citizen / national of the United States" in English,
which could be confusing (what's a "citizen / national"?), but
the French text says "citoyen ou ressortissant des Etats-Unis",
which unambiguously means a citizen OR a national (i.e., the
bearer might or might not be a full-fledged US citizen).
> And now we're finding documents from actual leading
> custodians and experts of American history (who will
> serve as witnesses in court someday) stating that
> Filipinos are reclassified as US citizens in 1942,
I'm sorry, forgive me for getting a bit harsh with you here, but
I really don't want to read another word from you about those
three precious web sites you found. If you're imagining you're
going to be able to go to court over this matter, those sites
are TOTALLY useless as primary sources. I don't care who wrote
them, or which organizations posted them, or what their academic
or professional credentials might be, and neither will any judge,
in any court, anywhere.
If all Filipinos were in fact, at any time, declared (or classi-
fied, or "reclassified") to be full-fledged US citizens (and not
just non-citizen US nationals), there will be a federal statute
somewhere saying so. Find that statute (or have a lawyer or
knowledgeable legal researcher find it for you). If you can't
find the statute anywhere, then ask those "actual leading cus-
todians and experts of American history" to help you find it.
And if =they= can't find the statute anywhere, then they aren't
likely to have anything to testify to on the subject that any
US court is going to be interested in hearing.
Again, if you intend to fight this matter in court -- or even
if you want to try to get Congress to enact a new law on the
subject -- you NEED to find a PRIMARY source for your informa-
tion. Those three web sites, no matter how appealing they may
sound to you, ARE NOT PRIMARY SOURCES and will NOT counter the
accepted claims (backed up by federal statutes, regulations,
and court decisions) which ALL insist that Filipinos prior to
1946 were non-citizen nationals and NOT citizens of the US.
> But anyway, I think there are still 11 (eleven) circuit
> courts to try this case?
BTW, I found a "proper" cite to the Valmonte case:
Valmonte v. INS, 136 F.3d 914 (2nd Cir. 1998),
cert. denied, 142 L.Ed.2d 463 (1998).
"Cert. denied", in case this term is new to you, means that the
losing party (in this case, Ms. Valmonte) tried to get the US
Supreme Court to review the case, but the Supreme Court refused
(without comment) to get involved and allowed the appellate
court's decision to stand.
A denial of certiorari doesn't automatically mean that the
Supreme Court will rule one way or the other if it ever does
decide to hear a similar case, and it doesn't set a binding
precedent that would force all other courts in the US to go
along with the Valmonte ruling. However, it really isn't a good
sign as far as you're concerned. And especially if you consider
a case on this general subject which the Supreme Court =did=
rule on -- INS v. Pangilinan, 486 U.S. 875 (1988) -- it seems
=extremely= unlikely that the Supreme Court is going to accept
the proposition that all Filipinos have a pre-1946 claim to US
citizenship.
If you haven't already read both the Valmonte and Pangilinan
decisions in their entirety, I would again urge you to do so.
You may not (and, indeed, almost certainly =will= not) agree
with much of anything either court said, but you do need to
understand what these courts said and =why= they said it,
because you aren't going to get anywhere at all simply by
insisting that their rulings were factually and/or morally
mistaken.
> the Filipino-American rights movement or the Back to
> American Citizenship movement or whatever they call it,
> is already in the first stages of communication with
> [Congress and the Supreme Court] regarding this matter.
Uhhh . . . people and organizations don't enter into "first
stages of communication" with the Supreme Court in the way you
seem to think they do. The Supreme Court won't (and, indeed,
can't) get involved in matters like this until and unless they
are asked to decide a specific case from a lower court.
Kayumanggi
is a US citizen, no US nationals mentioned. And the holder of those
antique US citizen passports have no American parent, did not go
through naturalization, did not immigrated or resided in the US
mainland but only visited for a while, but who are permanently
residing and working in the Philippines.
Kayumanggi
checking out the latest news about the NGO or the lobbying group
pursuing this case about the US citizenship of the Filipinos. Don't
know the legal details and procedures, but I do understand and I am
expressing in my own words what this NGO's general direction is.
But if you want to personally contact the NGO or the movement itself,
and personally examine their tangible evidence (example, antique US
citizen passports) and arguments, and to contact their affiliated US
immigration and American history experts, and catch up with their
latest business with the US congress and US Supreme Court. You may do
so, I can give you their office address and contact information. But
it's been a long time since I've contacted them myself. So I'm not
aware if there are changes in their contact information or slight
change of organization name. But you may call the US embassy in
Manila, Philippines if there's indeed a change. Anyway, this
organization already has official ties and cooperation with the US
embassy in Manila, Philippines.
Here's their contact information:
Discovery Crusade of the Philippines Inc. (D.C.P.I.) aka Back to
American Citizenship Movement
Room 402-B, Building in front of the US embassy, Manila, Philippines
Telephone Numbers: 63 (2) 302-2524 and 63 (2) 525-9209 local 15
If you're unable to contact them, then again you may ask the US
Embassy in Manila for their new contact information coz they already
have official ties and cooperation with the US embassy. They don't
have a website. Again, you may also personally examine their antique
US citizen passports, etc etc.
P.S. they have lots of enemies. If you first want to make a
background research before you actually contact this NGO, then please,
I suggest you first directly contact the US government itself or the
US embassy in Manila to get a direct information background about this
NGO. Coz if you first surf the internet to get background information
about this NGO, you will mostly find bad information and lies
discrediting and demonizing the Discovery Crusade of the Philippines
Inc. So again, it's very important that you must first contact the US
government itself or the US embassy in Manila, Philippines to get the
true background information about this NGO. Coz again, this NGO
already has official ties and cooperation with the US embassy in
Manila, Philippines.
That is how you will find all the answers and information you're
asking for about this issue. :-)
matrix
Rich Wales asked you if you have actually SEEN (and read) those US passports
with YOUR OWN eyes. Have you?
"Kayumanggi" <kma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0b4fa2d.03071...@posting.google.com...
Kayumanggi
only on TV. But the good news is, anyone can personally examine and
investigate its authenticity, or hold it personally. You can bring
your own experts, history or chemist experts to test its authenticity.
Just go to this NGO's office. I'm sure they'll be very happy to
accommodate you all.
Ingo Pakleppa
I don't think they need to accomodate me. I'm not the one who is
interested in this question. You made an argument, and you are the one who
would have to prove it. Rich, matrix and I merely point out where there
might be holes in it. For that matter, you also don't have to convince me
for another reason: I do think that the treatment that you seek would be
fairer. I just do not see any legal basis for it.
If you are serious about helping Filipinos get US citizenship, you don't
need to play to the audience. You need to play to the courts (a long shot)
or to Congress (an even longer shot).
I can tell that you are very passionate about this. Personally, I think
that you are wasting your passion. This game is over, and has been over at
least since Valmonte, if not since 1934.
Kayumanggi
> Have all Filipinos given up on the future of the Philippines ?
In my point of view, there's nothing wrong with the actual
independence of the Philippines. The wrong thing is, allowing the
Philippines to become independent when it still doesn't have a Jury
System installed.
Yes, some Filipinos have given up on the future of the Philippines.
But only with its Justice System when handling high profile bad guys.
High profile crime and corruption is the root of the present poverty
in the Philippines. It's draining the government's money to pay for
its social and infrastructure development and repairs. And these high
profile bad guys are untouchable coz the Philippines doesn't have a
Jury System. Unfortunately, it's now impossible to implement the Jury
System in the Philippines coz the actual people in power there don't
want the Jury System installed coz they will end up in jail for sure.
I hope that someday there would be an organization to promote the Jury
System in the Philippines. Or I hope there is someone out there
specializing on the Jury System or has the talent to start an
organization specializing for such a particular matter to start
promoting the Jury System to be installed in the Philippines someday.
Even Filipino-American US soldiers would die for America if need be.
In fact, the first case of the three US soldiers stationed at a road
checkpoint on Northern Iraq during Operation Iraqi Freedom, who were
killed by an Iraqi suicide bomber, wherein one of those three US
soldiers killed was actually a Filipino-American US soldier. And also
during Operation Iraqi Freedom, a US supply convoy was hit and
captured by Iraqi forces. The captured American POWs were humiliated
by the Iraqis by broadcasting their video around the world, showing
they are kept in a hospital room. One of the American POWs who is
said to be the only American POW captured in Iraq who didn't show a
frightened face is a Filipino-American. President W. Bush also
personally awarded a Filipino-American US soldier with a Purple Heart
while sitting on his wheelchair, for doing his duty on Operation Iraqi
Freedom. And during the early months of the year 2001 a US spy plane
accidentally collided with a Chinese jet fighter and then made an
emergency landing on Chinese territory. The American spy plane's crew
were captured and interrogated by the Chinese for about a week. One
of that US spy plane's crew is also a Filipino-American.
So, you don't have to worry about Filipinos immigrating to the States.
It's now proven that Filipinos are successful in integrating to
American society. First generation Filipino immigrants may still look
and act like 3rd world people and some may temporarily rely on welfare
programs, but it's proven that they and their children (the second
geners) do grow up as normal genuine Americans and become productive
taxpayers. No problem about that. That's what they said about the
first generation Irish and Italian immigrants during the 19th and
early 20th century. People said that the Irish and Italians are a
burden. But the Irish and the Italians have proven that they and
their children (second geners) did grow up as genuine Americans and
became productive taxpayers too. Again, in most cases, first
generation immigrants will still act, behave, and look like what they
are when they were still in their country of origin, but the second
generation immigrants (their children) will grow up as normal genuine
Americans and become productive taxpayers. The pioneers and the
European immigrants have gone through that same by generation gradual
behavioral integration too. Or in other words, even the pioneers and
first generation European immigrants would also look 3rd world in the
eyes of present day Americans.
Even before 1935 or 1946 (Philippine independence) majority of
ordinary Filipinos don't want independence. Most Filipinos don't want
to become Filipino citizens in the first place. Only the elite wants
independence coz they don't want the Jury System to be installed in
the Philippines coz it will immediately put them in jail coz of their
past abuses towards ordinary Filipinos. The elite controls the
politics and media in the Philippines even in the old days. Ordinary
Filipinos had no voice back then. And some of the ethnic indigenous
Filipino tribes even wanted to apply for Statehood for their areas
instead of being part of the Independent Republic of the Philippines,
but sadly they were ignored, their voices were not heard. Therefore,
be rest assured that most Filipinos are Americans by heart or by
personal choice, or don't want to become Filipino citizens in the
first place even before 1935 and 1946 (Philippine Independence)
happened. And again, be rest assured that Filipinos whole heartedly
love America not just for economic reasons.
The Asian triad has now entered the Philippines, illegal drug lords,
illegal gambling lords and such. They now made friends with corrupt
Filipino politicians and with some of the elite. They're untouchable
coz we don't have a Jury System in the Philippines. The Philippines
today is like the State of New York or New Jersey during the time of
the Italian-American mafias. If the State of New York or New Jersey
has no Jury System then the Mafia can easily bribe and intimidate a
single Judge. The mafia would then have reasonably full control of
those States if they didn't have a Jury System. That's what's
happening in the Philippines today coz we don't have a Jury System.
The Philippines was doing just fine at the early decades of
independence coz they don't have the same level of corruption and high
profile crimes as they have now. And the Asian triad has not yet
entered the Philippines during those early decades of independence.
Even though the Philippines have a communist rebellion problem in
those days the Philippines was still performing well. They may have
squatters in Manila (Philippine Capital) in that time but they are
mostly refugees escaping the crossfire between Philippine soldiers and
the Communist rebels at the provinces, so their poverty is not much
caused by corruption as it is now. Anyway, some of the people who
joined the Communist rebels have joined coz they want to seek justice
for the injustices committed by some of the untouchable elite towards
them. But if the Philippines had a Jury System, then they would have
attained justice even without having to join the Communist rebel
movement in the first place. Then there would be no Communist
rebellion movement in the Philippines in the first place during the
cold war era.
Kayumanggi
coz this was the situation. When the Valmonte case was finished and
obviously the Filipinos lost that case, everybody did accept that
that's it! It's over! They've lost! You know, everybody have
already accepted that they've lost the case! And that's it! Nada!
It's over! Just like what you're saying.
Then I think months or years later, suddenly, Filipinos were
approaching the immigration lawyer of Valmonte showing their antique
US citizen passports. So obviously, coz of that, everybody was
suddenly surprised by the existence of those antique US citizen
passports that are strictly for US citizens only! Or nobody knew that
those antique US citizen passports ever existed before! Everybody was
so surprised that Filipinos were issued US citizen passports that are
strictly for US citizens only, during US colonial times! So, they
examined it. Called some experts to check its authenticity and it
came out okay. And that's only when that everybody decided to pursue
this case anew or to give it a try again. Coz they have a new
evidence to present.
To make it clear, during the Valmonte case, all the people involved in
the Valmonte case were not aware of the existence of those antique US
citizen passports and that in the year 1942 Filipinos are reclassified
as US citizens. Those antique US citizen passports and the 1942
reclassification were not included in the evidence. The only argument
that the Filipinos presented is the 14th amendment.
http://www.tourolaw.edu/2ndCircuit/February98/96-41940.html
And of course, later they've discovered in the internet that in the
year 1942 Filipinos are reclassified as US citizens. And so I think
they also contacted the people who posted that information in their
site, etc etc. That too will be presented as evidence.
So that's why we can't blame them for trying this case anew, coz of
the new evidences that can be presented in court. And which may lead
to the changing of existing laws etc etc. You know, if you have new
evidence, then go try it! Nothing wrong with that.
Rich Wales
> Then I think months or years later, suddenly, Filipinos
> were approaching the immigration lawyer of Valmonte
> showing their antique US citizen passports. . . .
The existence of "antique" US passports, apparently identifying
the bearers as full-fledged US citizens, would obviously be an
interesting development. However, in and of itself, it would
NOT prove that there was a statute (law) in effect before 1946
declaring all Filipinos to be US citizens.
Even if no other explanation can be found (e.g., naturalization
of the individual passport bearers), it might simply be the case
that the US consular officials who issued the passports made
a mistake (e.g, perhaps no one noticed that the passports in
question didn't properly indicate the bearer's true status).
And a US passport issued by mistake can NOT force the US to
accept as a citizen someone who, in fact, never should have been
issued the passport (or should have been issued a passport with
a restrictive notation).
As I suggested before, someone (in the Discovery Crusade of the
Philippines or some other group) needs to do a thorough search
for a specific statute (i.e., act of Congress) conferring US
citizenship (not just US nationality) on all Filipinos. The
existence of the "antique" passports might possibly be evidence
suggesting that such a statute might exist -- but it's not proof.
And if a statute does exist, an exhaustive search of United
States Statutes at Large (known in legal circles as "Stat.")
will eventually find it. Conversely, if no trace of such a
statute can be found in Stat., that's overwhelming evidence
that no such statute was in fact ever enacted by Congress.
Unless an actual statute can be found, no US court is likely to
rule that all pre-1946 Filipinos were US citizens (given that
the statutes generally known to exist on the subject declare
Filipinos to be non-citizen US nationals). Not even the exis-
tence of the "antique" passports is likely to be good enough,
because in the absence of statutory backing for citizenship for
the bearers of the passports, the courts are virtually certain
to conclude that the passports were issued in error.
Similarly, the web sites claiming a 1942 "reclassification" of
all Filipinos as US citizens may perhaps be evidence suggesting
that there was a statute to this effect. But unless someone
can find the actual statute, there's no point in going to court;
the web sites themselves are useless as evidence in court. At
least, in this case, there is a limited time range (just one
year, 1942) -- and it should be possible for someone to contact
the authors of the web sites and ask them for their sources for
their claim.
Obviously, if a a new case on this topic comes before the courts,
I'll be very interested in hearing about it (at least for the
sake of curiosity). If I seem skeptical, it's only because the
kinds of new evidence you've been bringing up so far are clearly
not going to be enough to pique the interest of any US court,
and I honestly think anyone pursuing this case is wasting their
time unless they can find an actual, literal statute supporting
their view.
Kayumanggi
is about probability. You know, with the Jury System at least there
is more probability of getting a true verdict, especially when
handling the cases of rich and well connected people. Unlike the
present Philippine Justice System wherein the probability of getting a
true verdict is absolutely zero whenever handling cases of rich and
well connected people.
You're correct, Filipinos will have to work hard to get the
Philippines straightened out. But still they need some leverage to do
it. (Not necessarily immigration to America or to apply for US
statehood, of course) Everybody in general needs one.
Ah yes I understand that too. Mass migration. You have a point
there. Well, I think the solution to avoid mass migration would be to
force all 3rd world countries to adopt the Jury System and America's
Electorate System etc, to straighten out all 3rd world countries. For
example, if we force all Muslim countries to adopt the Jury System
wherein half of the Jury members are always composed of women, then
that would have a positive influence to the Muslim world! The Macho
Islamic tendencies of Muslim societies will certainly be extinguished!
No more Honor killing or Honor burning of teenage Muslim girls caught
behaving like regular American teenage girls! And of course, if
America has no Electorate System, then politicians will only meet the
needs of the State of California and ignore the needs of the rest of
the US states. Coz California has the biggest population number of
voters concentrated in one immediate area. That's what's happening in
the Philippines, you know. Most of the time, Philippine politicians
only meet the needs of Metro Manila (Philippine Capital) and its
surrounding provinces and other key cities coz these are where the big
population number of voters are concentrated. As much as possible,
catch them in one blow with less effort as they say. You know, the
world should adopt the things that make America work. And great!
It's all tested already. The world only needs to do are to adopt all
of it, so that 3rd world countries around the world will improve and
become a better place to live in. Therefore, there will no longer be
a need for mass migration in the first place.
Marcos' departure didn't much improve anything. In fact, things have
gotten worse. And when the Philippine government in the early 1990's
kicked out the US 7th fleet, things have gotten worse too. Literally,
the next day after the departure of the US navy and closing of US
bases in the Philippines, the Chinese Navy then immediately occupied
the oil rich islands within the 200 miles from the shoreline water
territory of the western Philippines coz the US Navy was gone. And so
the Chinese was no longer afraid to claim all of South East Asia. And
coz the Chinese Navy is not afraid of the weaker power of other South
East Asian country's Navy including the weakest the Philippines. Even
Chinese Fishing boats that illegally enter the water territory of the
Philippines are sometimes escorted by Chinese Navy boats that protects
them from being arrested by the weaker Philippine Coast Guard. Coz of
that, Chinese fishermen are free and confident in stealing tons of
commercial fish quantity from the rich fishing waters of the
Philippines. The Philippines is losing millions and millions of
dollars everyday coz of this. That never happened when the US bases
and the US navy was still in the Philippines. The US navy is indeed a
true friend of the Philippines and of the Filipinos.
The Asian triad has now entered the Philippines too, illegal drug
lords and illegal gambling lords, they are now controlling the corrupt
politics and some of the business in the Philippines. So I think,
even though the Jury System is not perfect, at least there's more
probability that those big fish bad guys will be put to jail with the
help of the Jury System. You know, it worked in New York and in New
Jersey during the days of the Italian-American mafias. May have taken
long but it worked.
But again, be rest assured that greater majority of Filipinos
sincerely love America. Mostly, it was only some of the Filipino
elite and elite Filipino intellectuals who hate America and who kicked
the US 7th fleet out of the Philippines. And yet their families are
US citizens living in the States! Talk about political hypocrites!
And BTW, a Filipino-American Fireman was also killed while he was
rescuing the victims of the 9/11 terrorist attack at the NY twin
towers. And again, even Filipino-American US soldiers would die for
America if need be, as I've already mentioned previously. Therefore
my point is, that greater majority of Filipinos sincerely loves
America.
Kayumanggi
ri...@richw.org (Rich Wales) wrote in message news:<2003072102303...@jessejames.Stanford.EDU>...
Kayumanggi
> Ah yes I understand that too. Mass migration. You have a point
> there. Well, I think the solution to avoid mass migration would be to
> force all 3rd world countries to adopt the Jury System and America's
> Electorate System etc, to straighten out all 3rd world countries. For
> example, if we force all Muslim countries to adopt the Jury System
> wherein half of the Jury members are always composed of women, then
> that would have a positive influence to the Muslim world! The Macho
> Islamic tendencies of Muslim societies will certainly be extinguished!
> No more Honor killing or Honor burning of teenage Muslim girls caught
> behaving like regular American teenage girls! And of course, if
> America has no Electorate System, then politicians will only meet the
> needs of the State of California and ignore the needs of the rest of
> the US states. Coz California has the biggest population number of
> voters concentrated in one immediate area. That's what's happening in
> the Philippines, you know. Most of the time, Philippine politicians
> only meet the needs of Metro Manila (Philippine Capital) and its
> surrounding provinces and other key cities coz these are where the big
> population number of voters are concentrated. As much as possible,
> catch them in one blow with less effort as they say. You know, the
> world should adopt the things that make America work. And great!
> It's all tested already. The world only needs to do are to adopt all
> of it, so that 3rd world countries around the world will improve and
> become a better place to live in. Therefore, there will no longer be
> a need for mass migration in the first place.
People will no longer need to go to America if we bring America to them.
Norm³©®
"Kayumanggi" <kma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0b4fa2d.03072...@posting.google.com...
Kayumanggi
> I agree but they don't want our help.
Coz corrupt politicians don't want their countries to improve. Only
in corrupt environments can corrupt politicians stay in power.
Kayumanggi
Norm³©®
"Kayumanggi" <kma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0b4fa2d.03072...@posting.google.com...
Kayumanggi
> Then why isn't it a paradise, answer OVERPOPULATION!
You didn't get it. It's a joke. I was talking about the Philippines
having too many smart *ss politicians.
Kayumanggi
pension plan or retirement plan. LOL. You know, even in the early
1900's and before the 1900's, greater majority of Westerners (like
most 3rd world families today) didn't have a retirement or pension
system available for them too. Most North Americans and Europeans
were farmers at that time. So, in the old days even Westerners don't
have a pension to secure their welfare when they grow old. They too
only relied on their children to take care of them when they grow old.
And there's a reason why early Westerners and today's 3rd world
people resorted to produce lots of children as much as possible in
order to secure their own welfare when they grow old.
During the old days, in North America, Europe, and in today's 3rd
world countries, children's mortality rates are very high coz of lack
of modern medical technologies available. And there's also the
possibility of one or several of your children being a black sheep.
Obviously, you can't much rely on your black sheep children to take
care of you when you're old. Coz your black sheep children might even
deliberately kill you to end their responsibility for taking care of
you when you're old. Taking care of old people is a major boredom to
black sheep children. So, the reason why 3rd world people (and our
European ancestors) produce lots of babies as much as possible is coz
they don't have a pension system to secure their personal welfare when
they grow old, they wanted someone to take care of them when they grow
old, therefore, produce lots of children as much as possible coz they
don't expect some of their children to survive to adulthood coz of
lack of available medical technology at the time and with plagues and
wars going on, and some of their children may be a black sheep.
Most 3rd world people don't have a pension when they grow old. So,
they have no money or can't afford to live in senior homes or to hire
caregivers for themselves when they grow old. Most 3rd world
countries don't have a senior home for their whole aging population in
the first place, anyway. So, in a poor or primitive society with no
pension or retirement system, and no medical technologies to sustain
children's good health, the only way for a person to secure their
welfare when they grow old is to produce lots of children. Coz even
if you don't have a pension or live in a country that doesn't provide
a pension system, or with low minimum wage (no chance for personally
saving money for retirement) but if you have lots of children, then
your future welfare when you grow old will still be secured. Coz you
will never become much of a burden to your children, if you have lots
of children coz each of your children can take turns or divide the
responsibility and financial resources in taking care of you when you
grow old.
In modern cultures or in rich countries, people are busy making money
and manufacturing new products and services that will contribute in
the production and consumption cycle of modern consumer societies.
People in rich countries don't want to produce lots of children coz
they want to enjoy and spend more time consuming and experiencing the
modern gadgets, services, and lifestyles. If they have lots of
children then they will never get to enjoy all the material things in
modern life coz they will then have to spend more time raising their
many children. More added responsibilities. When Westerners or the
Japanese grow old, they have a pension. And even without pension they
can still save some of their own money for their retirement. They can
hire caregivers and afford to live in senior homes when they grow old.
In the West and in Japan, children's mortality rates are low coz of
the available modern medical technologies. So even though you only
have a few children, you can be sure there's great probability that
they will survive to grow up as adults.
But the low birthrates in Japan and the West are also economically
disadvantageous in the long term. Unless Westerners and the Japanese
produce more babies today, or develop highly intelligent caregiver
robots, or invite more 3rd world immigrants to spawn more westernized
second geners, in time for re supplying the shrinking number of
Western and Japanese workforce and consumer population and caregivers
for the aging baby boomer population, then in the future (in a worse
case scenario), we may likely see the baby boomer and hippy generation
literally dying alone neglected on the streets or dying neglected in a
lonely room coz of lack of available caregivers due to today's low
Western and Japanese birthrates that should've grown up to become the
future workforce.
Coz even if you have the money to hire a caregiver when you grow old,
not all seniors in the future will be able to hire a caregiver, coz of
the workforce shortage due to today's low birthrates which will lead
to the decreasing population number of the future workforce
generation. And you can't always rely on your children to take care
of you if you only have a few children. Coz your children are also
very stressfully busy making ends meat and raising your grandchildren.
So again, unless Westerners and the Japanese produce more babies
today, or develop highly intelligent caregiver robots, or invite more
3rd world immigrants to spawn more westernized second geners, in time
for re supplying the shrinking number of Western and Japanese
workforce and consumer population and caregivers for the aging baby
boomer population, then in the future (in a worse case scenario), we
may likely see the baby boomer and hippy generation literally dying
alone neglected on the streets or dying neglected in a lonely room coz
of lack of available caregivers due to today's low Western and
Japanese birthrates that should've grown up to become the future
workforce.
I think we can't blame 3rd world people for their actual prolific
production of babies. We should blame their primitive mindset and
culture. I think it's their primitive culture's fault. Coz the
children (second geners) of 3rd world immigrants who settle on
industrialized countries grow up as normal westerners. The second
geners grow up in Western culture, therefore the second geners grow up
as regular normal westerners. The only difference of second geners
from the rest is their skin color. But their attitude, thinking, and
behavior are very much regular westerners. Therefore, it all depends
on the culture or environment a child has grown up to.
Even ancient Europeans have a lot to thank the ancient Romans for
forcing them to adopt the western or Roman/Greek style of civilization
which further been modified as to what it is now. And we can argue
that western civilization has been very much influenced by
Judean/Christian values and of course some technologies from the East
and Middle East.
The age demographic pyramid is now starting to be turned upside down
in the Japanese and Western world. In the old days, the senior
population is represented at the top or at the apex of the pyramid.
The senior population was small compared to the younger generation's
population. But today and in the future, the base of the pyramid is
at the top representing the bigger senior population of Western and
Japanese societies compared to the smaller population number of their
younger generation workforce. There are long term and short term
trade offs involved here, you know.
But I'm not saying it's still practical to have lots of children in
today's modern reality of the world having only finite limited
resources. I'm just explaining why people in primitive cultures still
produce lots of babies despite of being in extreme impoverished
conditions.
Kayumanggi
collar immigrants coz we need them. Western kids and teenagers
nowadays have no ambition to become professional caregivers. They
don't like the job of changing old people's diapers. And washing with
their bare hands old people's bottoms after defecating or peeing on
the toilet bowl, or bathing old people, changing their clothes,
feeding them, or cleaning old people's bed littered with feces and
pee.
The baby boomer and hippy generation will soon grow old, frail, and
weak. And they also represent the bulk of Western and Japanese
population. They almost outnumber or maybe do outnumber the young gen
x and gen y generation. The aging baby boomer and hippy generation
are numbering tens of millions. So, they will also need to hire tens
of millions of caregivers in the future. When the gen x and gen y
generation becomes the workforce, they will not have time to take care
of the old baby boomer and hippy generation full time. Coz they also
will become stressfully busy making ends meat (filling in the white
collar jobs) and raising their own children, putting their children to
day care, and school. Therefore, they can never care for old people
24 hours a day.
American and Western kids and teenagers nowadays don't ambition to
work in such blue collar jobs. And besides, most of the American and
Western kids and teenagers today will definitely fill in the white
collar jobs in the future. And the only people who can fill in the
blue collar jobs are the immigrants. That's the long term
disadvantages of low birthrates in rich countries. There are long
term and short term trade offs indeed.
But in an extremist socialist state, there's no problem. The solution
is simple. Coz in extremist socialist states, once a person becomes
old and useless, then they will exterminate that person through a
firing squad and dump his/her body on mass graves with other executed
old people and cover them up with dirt, and convert the top soil into
agricultural land, and hence their bodies will serve as fertilizers
for the state's agricultural industry.
Kayumanggi
trend is the Japanese. Some schools and universities in Japan had
already closed coz there are no children and teenagers to teach. At
some parts of Japan, there's only one pupil per (classroom)
kindergarten or grade school level, or literally only a dozen students
per high school level. I think the Japanese population statistics
ministry also made a forecast that if the low birth rate trend
steadily continues, then soon the Japanese population will be zero.
The Japanese race will be extinct.
Although Western culture allows wealth, freedom, and curiosity in
science, it also has long term negative side effects for the community
itself. Westerners including the Japanese, choose to stay single with
no children. And even if they marry, divorce, and marry again, they
option to produce only a few children. Like the Ally McBeal
lifestyle, a single parent with a single child, relying on modern
medical technology and modern safety standards for the survival to
adulthood of her single child. And this Ally McBeal TV character
(representative of some Westerner's modern lifestyle) is also relying
on the pension system, her personal savings for retirement, and the
caregiver senior home facilities of her community to care for her
after retirement once she becomes old and weak.
Which will not work, if the community she's living in has a low birth
rate situation, or does not produce an adequate enough population
number of youngsters that should replace the retiring workforce to
become the next workforce generation in the future. And this is
further made worse by the fact that western kids and teenagers
nowadays have no ambition to work as caregivers in the future.
It's an inconvenient situation wherein the population number of the
old generation and the young generation are almost equal, or in an
extreme case such as in Japan, the old generation outnumbers the
younger generation. This may also lead to the extinction of Miss Ally
McBeal's race, like the Japanese are destined to, if the low birth
rates continue in Japan.
Tiny Human Ferret
> The most hardest hit by the population implosion (low birth rate)
> trend is the Japanese. Some schools and universities in Japan had
> already closed coz there are no children and teenagers to teach. At
> some parts of Japan, there's only one pupil per (classroom)
> kindergarten or grade school level, or literally only a dozen students
> per high school level. I think the Japanese population statistics
> ministry also made a forecast that if the low birth rate trend
> steadily continues, then soon the Japanese population will be zero.
> The Japanese race will be extinct.
This is ridiculous! There will never be a "shortage" of Japanese. The
Japanese people have made personal decisions -- which we should honor -- to
reduce their populations to a level with which they feel more comfortable.
If there are small class sizes in school, this is for the best, because now
teachers have more time per student, to allow for individualized
instruction. The quality of education, and thus the quality of the graduate,
will be improved. I believe that probably the majoriy of Japanese would agree.
When the Japanese feel that there is a need to maintain the population at a
certain level, or to increase it, the Japanese can certainly have more
children. Remember, it is their choice to have less children, it's not some
strange plague of infertility. I have no doubt that Japanese men and women
could have very large families if they chose to have large families.
>
> Although Western culture allows wealth, freedom, and curiosity in
> science, it also has long term negative side effects for the community
> itself. Westerners including the Japanese, choose to stay single with
> no children. And even if they marry, divorce, and marry again, they
> option to produce only a few children.
With a population increase of almost 15% in the last decade in the USA, of
course people are having less children! There are already too many people in
the USA, everyone who is from the USA knows it, and that is why they are
having less children! Who would want to bring children into a world that is
already very overcrowded? Nobody responsible would consider such an action!
> Like the Ally McBeal
> lifestyle, a single parent with a single child, relying on modern
> medical technology and modern safety standards for the survival to
> adulthood of her single child. And this Ally McBeal TV character
> (representative of some Westerner's modern lifestyle) is also relying
> on the pension system, her personal savings for retirement, and the
> caregiver senior home facilities of her community to care for her
> after retirement once she becomes old and weak.
Have you never heard of automation? Possibly the majority of an elderly
person's needs could be assisted by automatic or robotic devices.
>
> Which will not work, if the community she's living in has a low birth
> rate situation, or does not produce an adequate enough population
> number of youngsters that should replace the retiring workforce to
> become the next workforce generation in the future.
The workforce of the future is robotic. The Japanese definitely understand
this, they led the way in industrial automation. They were so successful at
automating production that they captured almost all industrial production
from the US in the 1970s and 1980s. Robotic production is vastly superior to
non-robotic production.
> And this is
> further made worse by the fact that western kids and teenagers
> nowadays have no ambition to work as caregivers in the future.
You sound like a very selfish and demanding older person who doesn't
understand that the objective of the working adult is production, not
caretaking. Let the younger retirees assist in taking care of the very
elderly. The very elderly prefer the sympathy of someone close to their own
age, and the young adults prefer to work rather than have their patience
tried by the very elderly.
> It's an inconvenient situation wherein the population number of the
> old generation and the young generation are almost equal, or in an
> extreme case such as in Japan, the old generation outnumbers the
> younger generation. This may also lead to the extinction of Miss Ally
> McBeal's race, like the Japanese are destined to, if the low birth
> rates continue in Japan.
The Japanese will never be extinct due to their honorable choice to have
smaller families which can live in greater harmony with Nature and the
realities of concern for the environment.
The Japanese are extremely innovative in many ways; and I expect that by the
time there could be an actual problem with a lack of caretakers for the
elderly, Honda or Sony will have developed very affordable robots to do most
of the physical assistance work. For instance, the Honda ASIMO robot isn't
very strong, and does not think of its own will, but it can go anyplace an
elderly person could go, and it could fetch and carry, and in time it will
be able to prepare meals and keep track of an elderly person's medicines and
remind them of appointments. It could also call for help in case of medical
emergencies. Sony also makes a very small robot, of complexity similar to
their AIBO robotic pet, but the new Sony robot is bipedal and small. It
could certainly follow and elderly person and act as the eyes, ears, and
light-duty limbs of a more powerful central home computer which could remind
elderly persons of appointments and medicines, or be watchful for signs of
distress or emergency.
Of course, minimally-independent robotic servants can't provide interesting
conversation, which would require a person. But an elderly person could say
"bring me some water" or "should I take my medicine" or "answer the
telephone" or "bring me my dinner", and a robot could handle all of those
things, leaving a working adult much more time to be productive. That would
leave more time and patience towards the end of conversations or other
quality-time interactions.
--
Be kind to your neighbors, even | "Global domination, of course!"
though they be transgenic chimerae. | -- The Brain
"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive
positions and have a tremendous impact on history." -- Dan Quayle
Kayumanggi
intelligent robots which is not far fetched nowadays that may either
lead to a Utopian future or a future like in the Terminator movies.
But if for example only, like I said before, if in case in the near
future we haven't yet developed robots that can intuitively understand
the special needs of the senile, then we still need some human
caregivers.
So, in the future we have a situation wherein almost half or possibly
more than half of the population is composed of retirees. And coz
almost half or possibly more than half of the population is
unproductive, then the workforce will then have to be more productive
than ever before. (Germany is planning to extend the retirement age
to 70 to anticipate this future problem) And in that situation,
obviously, it's not practical to designate some of the workforce as
caregivers for the retirees. So, you're right. We'll have to ask the
young retirees to volunteer as caregivers for the senile retirees.
And if there's still a shortage of caregivers, then maybe draft the
young retirees to work as caregivers with salaries.
So I think that's one of the disadvantages due to the low birthrates
that I'm talking about. Today, when we say retirement, we mean,
retirees settling in Florida, golfing, knitting sweaters, playing with
grandchildren, and caring for their grand children, etc. But in the
future, there's no such thing as retirement at all. Young retirees
will be immediately drafted to work as caregivers for the older senile
retirees until the day that they too become senile coz of lack of
available young caregivers. Only when the young retiree (serving as
the caregiver) itself actually becomes the senile and the useless will
a retiree actually at last experience retirement.
I'm sure by then we'll have robots to do all the manual job in caring
for the senile. But still, young retirees are needed to operate the
robots and guard the senile 24 hours a day. Coz I believe that in the
near future, robots are still not intuitive enough to understand the
special needs of the senile. Sure, a normal minded person can clearly
command a robot anything like, fetch me a glass of water, cook me
food, change my clothes, brush my teeth, etc. But a senile person is
not competent to command a robot, at least in the near future.
Interaction between a senile person and a confused robot may also be
fatal. So, again, you're right. We need young retirees to operate
the robots and guard the senile 24 hours a day.
I'm not saying that care taking is bad. And I'm sure caring for
senile retirees will also be fulfilling and satisfying for the younger
retirees. But it's just that or my point is, all the privileges that
a retiree used to fully enjoy will no longer be available for future
retirees. I'm just pointing out the difference between today and the
future. Again, today, when we say retirement, we mean, retirees
settling in Florida, golfing, knitting sweaters, playing with
grandchildren, and caring for their grand children, etc. But in the
future, there's no such thing as retirement at all. Young retirees
will be immediately drafted to work as caregivers for the older senile
retirees until the day that they too become senile coz of lack of
available young caregivers. Only when the young retiree (serving as
the caregiver) itself actually becomes the senile and the useless will
a retiree actually at last experience retirement.
Kayumanggi
Genetics and cyborg technology (which is also partly robotic and
organic) can also benefit the community if we develop those
technologies responsibly.