Major Upgrade to Forte Usenet Service

[Forte]

Holiday Greetings!

We have made major improvements to our Agent Usenet Service:
- Binary retention of 1500 days
- Text retention over 8 years
- Increase in GB for measured accounts, automatically
applied at your next renewal
20GB @$2.95/month
45GB @$5.95/month
90GB @$9.95/month
(Unlimited accounts remain @14.75/month)

To use the new service please take note of the following.

1. You can change the name of your current APN server or
you can disable your current server and create a new
one. Use menu option Tools | Servers and Accounts and
provide this information:

Server name / host name: news80.forteinc.com
Username: Your current APN username
Password: Your current APN password

2. You will need to synchronize your current Agent data
with the new server. Here's how to do that.

a. The Get New Headers command needs to reset it's
starting point. In each of your newsgroups use the
command Catch-Up with Newsgroups (Action Menu | Get
Headers option). You won't see anything happen, but
the next time you get new headers Agent will know
where to start.

b. Message body retrieval may not work correctly. Here are
two different ways to solve this problem.
- Upgrade to Agent 7.0 which retrieves bodies by
message-ID, not by article number.
- Sample recent headers for each of your newsgroups
(Action Menu | Get Headers). This will get a limited
number of headers based on time or number. Make sure
you check the box "Update record of headers that have
been retrieved" on the Sample Recent Headers dialog.

*** Using the Account Manager ***
There are no changes here. Access it at
https://newsaccount80.forteinc.com
using your current login information.

We hope that the transition to our new, upgraded service goes
smoothly for you. If you have any problems or questions, please
use this URL to contact us:

http://www.forteinc.com/apn/contact.php

Enjoy the new service!

[Nicolas]

On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 09:36:53 -0800, Forte <agents...@forteinc.com>
wrote:

>Enjoy the new service!

Very good news, thank you!

--

Nicolas

[Rich Webb]

You mis-spelled "total fucking cock-up" as "good news." I don't give a
flying poop about "binary retention" or eight freakin' years of text. I
do care about *current* threads in actual discussion groups that are now
quite well arfed-up, thank you very much.

I supposed I can recover the threads after a few hours that I totally
did NOT want to spend, due to this "improvement" but Holy Crap, it's a
pain in the ass.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

[Ralph Fox]

On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 17:10:10 -0500, Rich Webb wrote:

> You mis-spelled "total fucking cock-up" as "good news." I don't give a
> flying poop about "binary retention" or eight freakin' years of text. I
> do care about *current* threads in actual discussion groups that are now
> quite well arfed-up, thank you very much.
>
> I supposed I can recover the threads after a few hours that I totally
> did NOT want to spend, due to this "improvement" but Holy Crap, it's a
> pain in the ass.

For anyone else about to make the switch to news80...


To avoid Rich's problem, follow the OP's instructions to synchronize
your current Agent data with the new server before you get new headers.
Sample headers from the new server back only as many days as you need.
When you sample, be sure to check "Update record of headers that have
been retrieved".

If you don't follow the instructions to synchronize, then Agent's
"get new headers" could get all 8 years of retention. If that happens,
the "hash collision" problem may mix up your threads.

If you are running Agent 3 or later, I recommend setting up news80
as a new server in Agent and disabling the old server.

I have done the switch twice and in neither case have I had Rich's
problem.

--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Jeffrey Kaplan]

Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, Rich Webb said:

> You mis-spelled "total fucking cock-up" as "good news." I don't give a
> flying poop about "binary retention" or eight freakin' years of text. I
> do care about *current* threads in actual discussion groups that are now
> quite well arfed-up, thank you very much.

You mis-spelled "I cannot read instructions and instead will rudely and
profanely blame you for my own inadequacies."

> I supposed I can recover the threads after a few hours that I totally
> did NOT want to spend, due to this "improvement" but Holy Crap, it's a
> pain in the ass.

Or you could read the instructions Tom included in the announcement on
how to synchronize Agent to the upgraded service.

And apologize for your unwarranted rudeness and profanity.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection

"You don't get out much do you son?" "Well I... no, not really."
(Shopkeeper and Lt. Corwin, B5 "Exogenesis")

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

[Default] On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 02:15:13 +0000, Jeffrey Kaplan

<nom...@gordol.org> wrote:

>Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, Rich Webb said:
>
>> You mis-spelled "total fucking cock-up" as "good news." I don't give a
>> flying poop about "binary retention" or eight freakin' years of text. I
>> do care about *current* threads in actual discussion groups that are now
>> quite well arfed-up, thank you very much.
>
>You mis-spelled "I cannot read instructions and instead will rudely and
>profanely blame you for my own inadequacies."

There are certainly benefits to not being employed by Forte - no need
to bite your tongue!

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament],
'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will
the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the
kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."

[h...@h-gee.co.uk]

Well you didn't HAVE to change your server and you probably NEVER actually READ the
instructions so the "total fucking cock-up" is really down to you.

Hugh of Bognor

--
I used to be an Egotistical Megalomaniac - but now I'm just perfect!

Hugh Gundersen
h...@h-gee.co.uk

Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

[Rich Webb]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:50:59 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
wrote:

>On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 17:10:10 -0500, Rich Webb wrote:
>
>> You mis-spelled "total fucking cock-up" as "good news." I don't give a
>> flying poop about "binary retention" or eight freakin' years of text. I
>> do care about *current* threads in actual discussion groups that are now
>> quite well arfed-up, thank you very much.
>>
>> I supposed I can recover the threads after a few hours that I totally
>> did NOT want to spend, due to this "improvement" but Holy Crap, it's a
>> pain in the ass.
>
>
>For anyone else about to make the switch to news80...
>
>
>To avoid Rich's problem, follow the OP's instructions to synchronize
>your current Agent data with the new server before you get new headers.

I'm sure that works fine if Agent is connecting directly to news80[*],
which will be the case for most users. However, I use Hamster as an
intermediate (local) server [**] and the switchover made it, shall we
say, less than happy.

So, after a few hours of fiddle-farting around between Agent and
Hamster I'm back up but that surely wasn't what I had planned for this
morning, for no real benefit.

On the bright side, the breakfast biscuits turned out well...

[*] news20 wasn't responding last night so it appeared that the
changover was a fait accompli; no option to stay on the old one.

[**] I use Hamster as a local server to filter on body text and for
more complex regex matching. Agent is a client and I don't really
expect it to pull all the bodies in all subscribed groups. That's not
its job, nor does it have the tools to filter on body text. Hamster
does do that (automatically, in the background, and they're all text
groups), which helps the signal to noise ratio considerably.

[Jeffrey Kaplan]

Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, Rich Webb said:

> I'm sure that works fine if Agent is connecting directly to news80[*],
> which will be the case for most users. However, I use Hamster as an
> intermediate (local) server [**] and the switchover made it, shall we
> say, less than happy.

This is important information that you neglected to mention in your
rant earlier.

If you are savvy enough to want to use a proxy instead of connecting
directly and you have the knowledge to do so, then you are technically
operating outside of the design parameters. And you should be taking
to whatever support resources Hamster has on how to resync its database
to the server and do that FIRST, then resync Agent to Hamster.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection

"If I am ever the Hero top 100 list: #40. If my village allies defeat
the elite forces of the Evil Overlord, I will take a few minutes to
learn how they did it and incorporate the information gained into my
strategies.

[Jeffrey Kaplan]

Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, Joe Laut said:

> I for one like to hear what others have found or experienced and I am in
> NO rush to blunder into the un-tested or a pissing contest.

I followed the directions (which, btw, is what you should do whenever
you add or change a server, say if you're switching usenet services
entirely). I have no problems with the messages within newsgroups.

My only issue is with a newsgroup that was empty / abandoned anyway.
Even after retrieving the complete list of newsgroups, the newsgroup
directory says a group is there, but attempting to get new messages in
it results in an error that it does not exist on the server. (Forte
has been made aware already.)

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection

"He's out among his people, basking in their almost sincere
adulation." (Lord Refa, B5 "The Long Twilight Struggle")

[Dick Ballard]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:51:54 -0400, lucreti...@fl.it
wrote:

>I'm likely being thick, but I am not sure why I would switch. I have
>read the directions and query whether this is a good time of year to
>try and do it :)
>
>What's going to happen/or not happen if I ignore this ?

I also would like to hear the answer to this question. Is
the current feed going to disappear if I don't make this
change? I'm probably a light duty user, and I'm really
getting tired of all of updates (from various sources) to
add things I don't need. And those changes often require a
lot of fiddling and not infrequently break something.

How do I find how much data I'm using?

Dick

[Kirk Bubul]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 10:43:23 -0800, Dick Ballard
<dickb...@comcast.net> wrote:

> I'm probably a light duty user, and I'm really
>getting tired of all of updates (from various sources) to
>add things I don't need. And those changes often require a
>lot of fiddling and not infrequently break something.
>
>How do I find how much data I'm using?

Log on to your Forte account and see how many GB you've used:
On the last day of your plan month (My renewal date is the 23rd of the
month, so I'd check this on the 22nd):

1. Got to forteinc.com
2. Choose the Agent Usenet tab and select Manage my Usenet Account
from the dropdown;
3. Log in with your User ID and Password;
4. On the Customer Information page, select Statistics.

You are now on the page with shows your usage statistics for the plan
month-to-date.

Maybe someone else can help you in seeing the history from other
months.

[Bart Dinnissen]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 09:28:19 -0800, in

alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent Joe Laut <J...@Laut2011.com> wrote:


>I for one like to hear what others have found or experienced and I am in
>NO rush to blunder into the un-tested or a pissing contest.

I have used APN for binaries for years, and I have no objection to
signing up with APN for text groups too. So I added news80.forteinc.com
to my list of text servers and experienced no problems following Forte's
instructions. My existing password (for the binary server) opened the
door without any trouble.

I noticed however that news80.forteinc.com still carries nl-groups that
have been removed from the dutch group list quite some time ago, and is
not up to date with at least one newly proposed group (that was
newgroup'ed in may 2012).

It seems to me that Control Messages are not automagically honoured?
This could be a sign of sloppy maintenance, but it could also mean that
perhaps there is a policy regarding Control Messages or group
maintenance that I am not aware of.

Anyway, I'm therefore not completely happy with it, so I'll hang on to
news.individual.net a while longer.

--
Bart Dinnissen

Het is allemaal heel betreurenswaardig, met uw welnemen.
- Joost

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

[Default] On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 21:52:30 +0100, Bart Dinnissen

Drop Forte a support mail (Help/Post Support Question) (although Tom's
probably watching this thread) with the details - they like to know
these things so they can get fixed.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"People can be educated beyond their intelligence" -- Marilyn vos Savant

[Ralph Fox]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 10:43:23 -0800, Dick Ballard wrote:

> I also would like to hear the answer to this question. Is
> the current feed going to disappear if I don't make this
> change?

According to the APN FAQ at http://www.forteinc.com/apn/faq.php,
the current feed will be changed in a few weeks.

See the third paragraph in the APN FAQ entry
"Is there any difference between news20, news40 [...]"
http://www.forteinc.com/apn/faq.php#9CF2E3C2C22F317885257A9B00629DBB



--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Dick Ballard]

Yes, I already checked the FAQ, but that raises another
question. The FAQ seems to saying that all feeds will the
same (news80) at some future time, in which case my feed
will suddenly change, without my prior knowledge, to news80.
I will then experience the syncing malfunction without
having prepared for the change. How is that to be addressed?

Is it too much to ask that an essentially mandatory update
be designed to be fully automated to proceed smoothly
without operator intervention?

Dick

[Ralph Fox]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 18:48:33 -0800, Dick Ballard wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 11:47:46 +1300, Ralph Fox
> <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 10:43:23 -0800, Dick Ballard wrote:
> >
> >> I also would like to hear the answer to this question. Is
> >> the current feed going to disappear if I don't make this
> >> change?
> >
> >
> >According to the APN FAQ at http://www.forteinc.com/apn/faq.php,
> >the current feed will be changed in a few weeks.
> >
> >See the third paragraph in the APN FAQ entry
> >"Is there any difference between news20, news40 [...]"
> >http://www.forteinc.com/apn/faq.php#9CF2E3C2C22F317885257A9B00629DBB
>
> Yes, I already checked the FAQ,

So it was a rhetorical question for Fort�.

> but that raises another
> question. The FAQ seems to saying that all feeds will the
> same (news80) at some future time, in which case my feed
> will suddenly change, without my prior knowledge, to news80.
> I will then experience the syncing malfunction without
> having prepared for the change. How is that to be addressed?

Dick,

1) This is a user-to-user newsgroup, not a hotline to Fort�.

I suggest you contact Fort� through one of the links on its web
site. Fort� has replied to only one question in this group in
the last four years.


2) Back in 2008, Fort� sent out emails to APN users before the
APN feed was changed. Are you expecting it not to do so
this time round?

> Is it too much to ask that an essentially mandatory update
> be designed to be fully automated to proceed smoothly
> without operator intervention?

3) The NNTP protocol does not handle this in a fully automated way.
When my ISP in 2004 switched its newsgroup feed to its parent
company's news server, I had to manually re-synch.

It is something which happens very infrequently (years and years
apart). The designers of the NNTP protocol have not addressed
this, perhaps because it is so infrequent.


4) If your question is intended for Fort� to consider, and not for us
Agent users to answer, then I suggest you contact Fort� directly.

It seems as if you might be trying to ask Fort� to consider
something. (It also happens to be something which the NNTP
protocol does not handle.)


--
Kind regards
Ralph

[The Cook]

On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 19:10:08 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>

I just got an email from Forte with the announcement and a link to the
upgrade instructions.

--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

[h...@h-gee.co.uk]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:51:54 -0400, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:50:59 +1300, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >For anyone else about to make the switch to news80...
> >
> >
> >To avoid Rich's problem, follow the OP's instructions to synchronize
> >your current Agent data with the new server before you get new headers.
> >Sample headers from the new server back only as many days as you need.
> >When you sample, be sure to check "Update record of headers that have
> >been retrieved".
> >
> >If you don't follow the instructions to synchronize, then Agent's
> >"get new headers" could get all 8 years of retention. If that happens,
> >the "hash collision" problem may mix up your threads.
> >
> >If you are running Agent 3 or later, I recommend setting up news80
> >as a new server in Agent and disabling the old server.
> >
> >I have done the switch twice and in neither case have I had Rich's
> >problem.
>

> I'm likely being thick, but I am not sure why I would switch. I have
> read the directions and query whether this is a good time of year to
> try and do it :)
>
> What's going to happen/or not happen if I ignore this ?

Took ten seconds and works well - actually I installed news80 as a new server and
duplicated one important group and kept the original on news60.

Running both to make sure everything in synchronized and it is and fast too.

[h...@h-gee.co.uk]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 18:00:54 +0000, Jeffrey Kaplan <nom...@gordol.org> wrote:

> Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent, Rich Webb said:
>
> > I'm sure that works fine if Agent is connecting directly to news80[*],
> > which will be the case for most users. However, I use Hamster as an
> > intermediate (local) server [**] and the switchover made it, shall we
> > say, less than happy.
>
> This is important information that you neglected to mention in your
> rant earlier.
>
> If you are savvy enough to want to use a proxy instead of connecting
> directly and you have the knowledge to do so, then you are technically
> operating outside of the design parameters. And you should be taking
> to whatever support resources Hamster has on how to resync its database
> to the server and do that FIRST, then resync Agent to Hamster.

Some people - my brain hurts -------- should have been shot at birth.

All joking apart, as you say if you are working outside the designed criteria then you are
on your own.

Mess with your car's specification within the warranty period or whilst on HP (finance)
and you're on your own when it breaks.

Use your Corvette to tow a plough across the fields and GM won't want to know when the
wheels fall off.

[Jeffrey Kaplan]

Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,
lucreti...@fl.it said:

> Well I think perhaps I did it - the whole thing seems to be gathering
> thousands of posts in each of my groups. I only altered the servers
> and acts one to 80.

Did you tell Agent to "get all" or to "catch up"? There is a big
difference.

And to answer you other post, no. Changing the news server address
does not "un-killfile" anyone. If, however, you wound up duplicating
the newsgroup into a new message folder, that new folder would not have
your group-specific filters applied to it though it should have your
global filters.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection

"Take her to the Pit! Go, Big-booty. Use more honey! Find out what she
knows." (Lord John Whorfin, "Buckaroo Banzai")

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 09:36:53 -0800, Forte <agents...@forteinc.com>
wrote:

>Holiday Greetings!
>
>We have made major improvements to our Agent Usenet Service:
> - Binary retention of 1500 days
> - Text retention over 8 years
> - Increase in GB for measured accounts, automatically
> applied at your next renewal
> 20GB @$2.95/month
> 45GB @$5.95/month
> 90GB @$9.95/month
> (Unlimited accounts remain @14.75/month)

I see that Forte is continuing their exploitative fixed monthly billing
practices. Pity.

[Jennifer Murphy]

On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 14:59:18 -0400, lucreti...@fl.it wrote:

>Well I like to see some binary groups and at $2.95 per month, that is
>pretty damn reasonable compared to other options YMMV

If I use all 20GB each and every month, then it's about $0.15/GB, which
is reasonable, but not spectacular.

I haven't done the research lately, but when I did, there were a number
of servers that offered block plans with comparable features for
comparable rates.

But the block plans are the same bargain no matter how much you use each
month. APN, on the other hand, is only that good if you use the max
every month. If you use half your allocation, then the rate in $0.30/GB,
which is mediocre.

I'd wager that the average APN user wastes at least half and probably
2/3 of their capacity.

[h...@h-gee.co.uk]

On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 08:24:03 -0800, Sesquipedalian Sam <sesq...@nowhere.noway> wrote:

Depends - I only get billed when I get to my quota - sometimes twice a month and sometimes
once every two months. Depends on which service you opted for. Fixed quota monthly or when
on quota.

[h...@h-gee.co.uk]

As I have said before - if you opt to be billed on quota then you may be charged more
often but if you opt for fixed monthly rate then you get billed monthly.

Fixed quota and monthly fixed payment will cost more if you don't use all the quota but
then you may be billed more often if you use more per month.

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 22:45:44 +0000, h...@h-gee.co.uk wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 08:24:03 -0800, Sesquipedalian Sam <sesq...@nowhere.noway> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 09:36:53 -0800, Forte <agents...@forteinc.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Holiday Greetings!
>> >
>> >We have made major improvements to our Agent Usenet Service:
>> > - Binary retention of 1500 days
>> > - Text retention over 8 years
>> > - Increase in GB for measured accounts, automatically
>> > applied at your next renewal
>> > 20GB @$2.95/month
>> > 45GB @$5.95/month
>> > 90GB @$9.95/month
>> > (Unlimited accounts remain @14.75/month)
>>
>> I see that Forte is continuing their exploitative fixed monthly billing
>> practices. Pity.
>
>
>Depends - I only get billed when I get to my quota - sometimes twice a month and sometimes
>once every two months. Depends on which service you opted for. Fixed quota monthly or when
>on quota.

Are you saying that Forte offers a block plan that only bills you when
you reach that quota? Or are you getting that from some other vendor?

I only see monthly plans on the Forte website:

http://www.forteinc.com/apn/index.php

[h...@h-gee.co.uk]

Forte direct APN - check it out in your dashboard or account detail you have probably not
read it through.

[WildCard]

In article <8nvgd89ojmtehuvl3...@gordol.org>,

Jeffrey Kaplan <nom...@gordol.org> wrote:
>Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,
>lucreti...@fl.it said:
>
>> Well I think perhaps I did it - the whole thing seems to be gathering
>> thousands of posts in each of my groups. I only altered the servers
>> and acts one to 80.
>
>Did you tell Agent to "get all" or to "catch up"? There is a big
>difference.

Awww, krutz!! I need to learn to RTFM. I did a sample with the
update box checked, but I forgot to do the catch-up first. Hopefully
this will still let me resync.

Wayne (posting from Unix account while Agent does the sample on some
of the bigger newsgroups I follow)




--
"By the time one can afford the wardrobe, the opportunity to make the
most of it is usually fading away."
--- responce to my statement "I am still asking the same questions
I did a decade ago, but at least now I can afford the wardrobe."

[Nick Spalding]

WildCard wrote, in <50db4887$0$81473$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net>
on 26 Dec 2012 18:57:11 GMT:

> In article <8nvgd89ojmtehuvl3...@gordol.org>,
> Jeffrey Kaplan <nom...@gordol.org> wrote:
> >Previously on alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent,
> >lucreti...@fl.it said:
> >
> >> Well I think perhaps I did it - the whole thing seems to be gathering
> >> thousands of posts in each of my groups. I only altered the servers
> >> and acts one to 80.
> >
> >Did you tell Agent to "get all" or to "catch up"? There is a big
> >difference.
>
> Awww, krutz!! I need to learn to RTFM. I did a sample with the
> update box checked, but I forgot to do the catch-up first. Hopefully
> this will still let me resync.

It will.

> Wayne (posting from Unix account while Agent does the sample on some
> of the bigger newsgroups I follow)
--

Nick Spalding
IE8, Vista Home Premium SP2, 32 bit, Intel Viiv dual core
E6300 (1.86Ghz, 1066MHz FSB), 2GB RAM, 320GB NTFS HD,
Video Nvidia GeForce 7900GS LCD 1024x768x75Hz

[Ralph Fox]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 12:24:33 -0500, Rich Webb wrote:

> I'm sure that works fine if Agent is connecting directly to news80[*],
> which will be the case for most users. However, I use Hamster as an
> intermediate (local) server [**] and the switchover made it, shall we
> say, less than happy.

What I would guess has happened is that after news80 was added to
Hamster, Hamster downloaded the entire 8 years retention from news80.
Because Hamster is a news server in its own right, it has added any
messagers which it did not already have onto the end of its own
message list.

What would really be required for this case is some way to tell
Hamster not to download the entire history from a new server,
but to start from only so far back (configurable, e.g. x months).
But looking at the Hamster manual, I cannot see any option how
to do this <http://www.elbiah.de/hamster/doc/howto/addsrv.htm>.
I guess Hamster's design goals were defined almost decade ago
when news server retention was a lot less than it is today.
Perhaps you could submit a feature request to the author.


> So, after a few hours of fiddle-farting around between Agent and
> Hamster I'm back up but that surely wasn't what I had planned for this
> morning, for no real benefit.
>
> On the bright side, the breakfast biscuits turned out well...
>
> [*] news20 wasn't responding last night so it appeared that the
> changover was a fait accompli; no option to stay on the old one.
>
> [**] I use Hamster as a local server to filter on body text and for
> more complex regex matching. Agent is a client and I don't really
> expect it to pull all the bodies in all subscribed groups. That's not
> its job, nor does it have the tools to filter on body text. Hamster
> does do that (automatically, in the background, and they're all text
> groups), which helps the signal to noise ratio considerably.


--
A prosperous New Year to one and all!
Ralph

[Nick Spalding]

Ralph Fox wrote, in <chind85bc6v3hamk0...@4ax.com>
on Thu, 27 Dec 2012 17:43:19 +1300:

> On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 12:24:33 -0500, Rich Webb wrote:
>
> > I'm sure that works fine if Agent is connecting directly to news80[*],
> > which will be the case for most users. However, I use Hamster as an
> > intermediate (local) server [**] and the switchover made it, shall we
> > say, less than happy.
>
>
> What I would guess has happened is that after news80 was added to
> Hamster, Hamster downloaded the entire 8 years retention from news80.
> Because Hamster is a news server in its own right, it has added any
> messagers which it did not already have onto the end of its own
> message list.
>
> What would really be required for this case is some way to tell
> Hamster not to download the entire history from a new server,
> but to start from only so far back (configurable, e.g. x months).
> But looking at the Hamster manual, I cannot see any option how
> to do this <http://www.elbiah.de/hamster/doc/howto/addsrv.htm>.
> I guess Hamster's design goals were defined almost decade ago
> when news server retention was a lot less than it is today.
> Perhaps you could submit a feature request to the author.

It is a while since I used Hamster but I think the advice should be the
same as for individual servers in Agent, start with a new instance. I
think it should be possible to save the killfile from the original if
you use one and restore it into the new one.

> > So, after a few hours of fiddle-farting around between Agent and
> > Hamster I'm back up but that surely wasn't what I had planned for this
> > morning, for no real benefit.
> >
> > On the bright side, the breakfast biscuits turned out well...
> >
> > [*] news20 wasn't responding last night so it appeared that the
> > changover was a fait accompli; no option to stay on the old one.
> >
> > [**] I use Hamster as a local server to filter on body text and for
> > more complex regex matching. Agent is a client and I don't really
> > expect it to pull all the bodies in all subscribed groups. That's not
> > its job, nor does it have the tools to filter on body text. Hamster
> > does do that (automatically, in the background, and they're all text
> > groups), which helps the signal to noise ratio considerably.
--

[Ralph Fox]

Using a new instance of Hamster for the news80 server could be part
of a solution, at the expense of duplicating storage for message bodies.

[Nick Spalding]

Ralph Fox wrote, in <ovvod8hihnvvbnrgp...@4ax.com>
on Fri, 28 Dec 2012 06:08:06 +1300:

I meant a new instance including all the other servers except
news20/40/60 then deleting the old one. Agent addresses Hamster as
127.0.0.1 IIRC so there could only one Hamster running at a time.

[Ralph Fox]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 18:14:06 +0000, Nick Spalding wrote:

> I meant a new instance including all the other servers except
> news20/40/60 then deleting the old one.

Thanks for the explanation.

> Agent addresses Hamster as
> 127.0.0.1 IIRC so there could only one Hamster running at a time.

I expect there can be more than one, so long as they listen on
different port numbers.

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

Are you referring to something different than the link above? All I see
are monthly plans that bill once a month regardless of how much you use
(up to the limit).

I am asking about a "block" plan where I buy a block of bandwidth (eg
200 GB) and do not get billed again until I use it up.

Here's an example:

https://www.newsdemon.com/block-accounts.php

Does Forte offer anything like that?

[h...@h-gee.co.uk]

As I don't work for Forte inc I cannot comment on that but the way I am billed is this....

I have a $5.95 contract and at the moment I am billed or rather auto renewed when I reach
quota - I think it was 25Gb now upped to 45Gb - then Forte automatically debit my
bank-card.

This could be once a month or twice a month depending on how much I downloaded and has
been known to be three times on the odd occasion.

On the other hand I could have opted to stick to a due date and stop using the service
when I ran out of the 25Gb (45GB now).

Bit like your cell phone pre-paid - don't use it when your credit runs out or have auto
top-up.

I think this is changeable when you log into your APN account but I am sure Tom at Forte
can answer all your questions.

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 14:47:22 -0800, The Other Guy
<Knews...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 22:16:18 +0000, h...@h-gee.co.uk wrote:
>
>
>>I have a $5.95 contract and at the moment I am billed or rather auto renewed when I reach
>>quota - I think it was 25Gb now upped to 45Gb - then Forte automatically debit my
>>bank-card.
>

>I switched from APN to Supernews about 4 years ago.
>
>I was paying $12 a month, now down to $10, and get unlimited DLs.
>
>Service is EXCELLENT!

I switched to Eternal September in June 2010 when my ISP
discontinued newsgroups. It went from it being including in my ISP
bill to being free.

Its service is quite good. There are no limits on downloading
that I know of. ES does not have binary newsgroups that I know of.
This is not an issue for me since I am not interested in them, but
this could be an issue for others.

Register at
http://eternal-september.org/

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 22:16:18 +0000, h...@h-gee.co.uk wrote:

This is an incomplete statement. The complete statement is that you are
billed when (a) you reach your quote or (b) once a month, whichever
comes first. If you use zero in a month, you still pay $5.95. Correct?

>This could be once a month or twice a month depending on how much I downloaded and has
>been known to be three times on the odd occasion.

But it's never less than once a month regardless of usage.

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 14:47:22 -0800, The Other Guy <Knews...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 22:16:18 +0000, h...@h-gee.co.uk wrote:
>
>

>>I have a $5.95 contract and at the moment I am billed or rather auto renewed when I reach
>>quota - I think it was 25Gb now upped to 45Gb - then Forte automatically debit my
>>bank-card.
>

>I switched from APN to Supernews about 4 years ago.
>
>I was paying $12 a month, now down to $10, and get unlimited DLs.
>
>Service is EXCELLENT!

Again, this is a monthly plan -- not a block plan. It may be a good deal
if you use a lot of bandwidth. For me, it's exorbitant.

http://www.supernews.com/

Says it's $11.99.

[DevilsPGD]

In the last episode of <qrvgd8t6441p7kvhd...@4ax.com>,

Sesquipedalian Sam <sesq...@nowhere.noway> said:

>I see that Forte is continuing their exploitative fixed monthly billing
>practices

What exactly is exploitative about Forte's plans?

--
The nice thing about standards, there is enough for everyone to have their own.

[DevilsPGD]

In the last episode of <3l4qd8ddf7u3ohhmi...@4ax.com>,

Supernews has a $9.99/month and $99/year option too:

http://www.supernews.com/super-special/?i=bdrcVH1Pftw=

(And yes, that's a referral code... If it saves you a feel dollars, feel
free to use it. If you prefer, drop the ?i= and it's not a referral code
anymore and still gives you the same price)

Note that this isn't the old Supernews, it's just Giganews selling under
another brand and a slightly modified feature set.

[h...@h-gee.co.uk]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 19:29:35 -0800, Sesquipedalian Sam <sesq...@nowhere.noway> wrote:


> >> >> >> On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 09:36:53 -0800, Forte <agents...@forteinc.com>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>

CUT

> >
> >As I don't work for Forte inc I cannot comment on that but the way I am billed is this....
> >
> >I have a $5.95 contract and at the moment I am billed or rather auto renewed when I reach
> >quota - I think it was 25Gb now upped to 45Gb - then Forte automatically debit my
> >bank-card.
>
> This is an incomplete statement. The complete statement is that you are
> billed when (a) you reach your quote or (b) once a month, whichever
> comes first. If you use zero in a month, you still pay $5.95. Correct?

Probably but as the only time I never used it for a month I was in hospital following a
heart attack so have no idea and couldn't really care.

However, for normal use that is the operational factor and if one is that short get the
smallest quota and keep paying and as the cost is less than a can of coke or a packet of
cigarettes - who cares?

>
> >This could be once a month or twice a month depending on how much I downloaded and has
> >been known to be three times on the odd occasion.
>
> But it's never less than once a month regardless of usage.
>
> >On the other hand I could have opted to stick to a due date and stop using the service
> >when I ran out of the 25Gb (45GB now).
> >
> >Bit like your cell phone pre-paid - don't use it when your credit runs out or have auto
> >top-up.
> >
> >I think this is changeable when you log into your APN account but I am sure Tom at Forte
> >can answer all your questions.

[h...@h-gee.co.uk]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 19:42:12 -0800, DevilsPGD <booga...@crazyhat.net> wrote:

> In the last episode of <qrvgd8t6441p7kvhd...@4ax.com>,
> Sesquipedalian Sam <sesq...@nowhere.noway> said:
>
> >I see that Forte is continuing their exploitative fixed monthly billing
> >practices
>
> What exactly is exploitative about Forte's plans?

Nothing as far as I am concerned. Perhaps those that want everything for nothing might
object to people "earning" a living and buying food etc.

Although "News DEMON" seems a nice setup I wonder if they are ripping people off or then
again what about Supanews and giganews - they can't all be rip off artists.

Now if M$ started an NNTP server for USENET then that would be classed as a rip off as
would APPLE but then I consider the whole APPLE thing a total rip off.

[Gene Wirchenko]

On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 10:13:26 +0000, h...@h-gee.co.uk wrote:

[snip]

>Now if M$ started an NNTP server for USENET then that would be classed as a rip off as
>would APPLE but then I consider the whole APPLE thing a total rip off.

Instead, Microsoft moved their newsgroups to forums. I do not
like the idea of having to crawl through forums. USENET is much
easier to access.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 19:42:12 -0800, DevilsPGD <booga...@crazyhat.net>
wrote:

>In the last episode of <qrvgd8t6441p7kvhd...@4ax.com>,
>Sesquipedalian Sam <sesq...@nowhere.noway> said:
>
>>I see that Forte is continuing their exploitative fixed monthly billing
>>practices
>
>What exactly is exploitative about Forte's plans?

It's the same as the original cell phone plans. $20/month for up to X
minutes. Anything you don't use, you lose. It's a good deal for the
vendor. Not so much for the user. But if you like it, use it.

[DevilsPGD]

In the last episode of <7oprd8hpgm2cgim9c...@4ax.com>,

Sesquipedalian Sam <sesq...@nowhere.noway> said:

>On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 19:42:12 -0800, DevilsPGD <booga...@crazyhat.net>
>wrote:
>
>>In the last episode of <qrvgd8t6441p7kvhd...@4ax.com>,
>>Sesquipedalian Sam <sesq...@nowhere.noway> said:
>>
>>>I see that Forte is continuing their exploitative fixed monthly billing
>>>practices
>>
>>What exactly is exploitative about Forte's plans?
>
>It's the same as the original cell phone plans. $20/month for up to X
>minutes. Anything you don't use, you lose. It's a good deal for the
>vendor. Not so much for the user. But if you like it, use it.

Right... So what's exploitative about that?

[Tom Cole]

I use www.astraweb.com for my binaries, and the free
www.eternal-september.org for text.

Astraweb have unlimited time plans such as $10 for 25GB.

[h...@h-gee.co.uk]

Well the original cell phone plan was invented by Thomas Edison - he lit up the town so
everyone could see the new "Swan" light bulb and when they want electric light he gave
away light bulbs just as they gave away cell phones. When people wanted to use the light
bulbs (cell phones) they had to buy electricity and Edison sold it to them just as you got
a free phone but had to pay to use it.

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 09:24:30 -0800, Gene Wirchenko <ge...@telus.net>
wrote:

The MS forums are a pain in the head. I used them for a while as I
could solve many of the problems posted. Now there only seems to be
one person who answers questions.

Steve

--
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com