burger and sandwich

[Yurui Liu]

Hi,

I have a couple of questions about burgers and sandwiches.

Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?

On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'.
Why is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger?
It looks no different from a hamburger to my eyes.

I'd appreciate your help.

[the Omrud]

<Dons hard hat>

--
David

[charles]

In article <eecf7da9-dbf0-452a...@googlegroups.com>,

"Hamburger" is strictly speaking just the filling - which is made of beef -
not ham.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

[Pablo]

... in the USA. We call beefburgers beefburgers.

And for the OP, it would be a chicken burger.

--

Pablo

http://www.ipernity.com/home/313627
http://paulc.es/

[charles]

In article <ce90rb...@mid.individual.net>, Pablo <no...@nowhere.net>
wrote:

> charles wrote:

> > In article <eecf7da9-dbf0-452a...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Yurui Liu <liuyur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >
> >> I have a couple of questions about burgers and sandwiches.
> >
> >> Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?
> >
> >> On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'. Why
> >> is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger? It looks no different
> >> from a hamburger to my eyes.
> >
> >> I'd appreciate your help.
> >
> > "Hamburger" is strictly speaking just the filling - which is made of
> > beef - not ham.

> ... in the USA. We call beefburgers beefburgers.

do you make hamburger out of ham?

[Pablo]

I don't make hamburgers. The local Spanish make "hamburguesas" with pork.

I make beefburgers. With beef.

Anyway, don't they call the filling "patties" in the USA?

[Helen Lacedaemonian]

On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 10:18:46 AM UTC-8, Pablo wrote:
> charles wrote:
>
> > In article <ce90rb...@mid.individual.net>, Pablo <no...@nowhere.net>
> > wrote:
> >> charles wrote:
> >
> >> > In article <eecf7da9-dbf0-452a...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> > Yurui Liu <liuyur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >
> >> >> I have a couple of questions about burgers and sandwiches.
> >> >
> >> >> Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?
> >> >
> >> >> On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'. Why
> >> >> is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger? It looks no different
> >> >> from a hamburger to my eyes.
> >> >
> >> >> I'd appreciate your help.
> >> >
> >> > "Hamburger" is strictly speaking just the filling - which is made of
> >> > beef - not ham.
> >
> >> ... in the USA. We call beefburgers beefburgers.
> >
> > do you make hamburger out of ham?
> >
>
> I don't make hamburgers. The local Spanish make "hamburguesas" with pork.
>
> I make beefburgers. With beef.
>
> Anyway, don't they call the filling "patties" in the USA?

Uncooked and unformed, the stuff is called "ground beef" or "hamburger meat."

Formed but uncooked, they are "patties" or "hamburger patties."

When cooked, they are "hamburgers" or "patties" or "hamburger patties."

Once placed in a bun, they are "hamburgers."

Best,
Helen

[Don Phillipson]

>> > Yurui Liu <liuyur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?
>> >
>> >> On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'. Why
>> >> is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger? It looks no different

"charles" <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:547053f4...@charleshope.demon.co.uk...

> do you make hamburger out of ham?

As we might have guessed, Wikipedia is helpful at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger#Claims_of_invention
but settles few irreconcilable claims of folk etymology, first
creation and so on. But we can probably agree.

1. "Hamburger" = Hamburger steak, a patty of ground beef
(not much different from what Canadians used to call a
Salisbury steak and Britons a rissole.) The name invokes
the German port city (not ham = smoked pork.)
2. About 1900 some enterprising American vendor of fast
food started selling Hamburger sandwiches i.e. a Hamburger
steak inside a bread bun. This is now an American staple food,
the everyday hamburger.
3. The syllable ham- suggested creation of similar words
e.g. beefburger and cheeseburger (cf. also Frankfurter sausage,
shortened to franks, available for extension as in chickenfurter.)
4. The Macdonald's chain (international from the 1960s)
with associated TV advertising did much to make the
hamburger a common dish world-wide.
5. All this antedated contemporary concern about diet
(sugar pop, high-fat meats as in hamburger etc.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[DJ]

On 12/03/2014 12:05 PM, Yurui Liu wrote:

> On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'.
> Why is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger?
> It looks no different from a hamburger to my eyes.
>

http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/hamburger

From your IP, I assume you are from Taiwan. Same here.
When "hamburger(漢堡)" first started in Taiwan (mainly publicized by
McDonald's), we got the idea that anything resembles McDonald's
hamburger(particularly, the "bun") is a "hamburger", but the bun alone
doesn't make it a hamburger.

For example:
http://pcdn1.rimg.tw/photos/2919891_m5uaowr_l.jpg
We call it 雞排堡 / 雞排漢堡 in Taiwan，but it's just a chicken sandwich.

[charles]

In article <m5nkt2$995$1...@news.albasani.net>, Don Phillipson

<e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
> >> > Yurui Liu <liuyur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?
> >> >
> >> >> On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'.
> >> >> Why is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger? It looks no
> >> >> different

> "charles" <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:547053f4...@charleshope.demon.co.uk...

> > do you make hamburger out of ham?

> As we might have guessed, Wikipedia is helpful at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger#Claims_of_invention but settles
> few irreconcilable claims of folk etymology, first creation and so on.
> But we can probably agree.

> 1. "Hamburger" = Hamburger steak, a patty of ground beef (not much
> different from what Canadians used to call a Salisbury steak and Britons
> a rissole.)

A rissole, as my mother made them, was more egg shaped - certinly not flat.
the equivalent flat thing was called a "Vienna Steak".

[Snip]

> 3. The syllable
> ham- suggested creation of similar words e.g. beefburger and cheeseburger

but not "Weinburger"

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 12:50:39 PM UTC-5, Pablo wrote:
> charles wrote:
>
> > In article <eecf7da9-dbf0-452a...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Yurui Liu <liuyur...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> I have a couple of questions about burgers and sandwiches.
> >> Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?

When it was first introduced (at the 1904 St. Louis World's Fair, like
so many other standard American food items?) it was so called, but that's
a _very_ old-fashioned, even risible, expression.

> >> On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'.
> >> Why is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger?
> >> It looks no different from a hamburger to my eyes.
> >> I'd appreciate your help.
> > "Hamburger" is strictly speaking just the filling - which is made of beef
> > - not ham.

If you ask for a hamburger, you receive a hamburger patty served on (in) a
hamburger bun, probably garnished with a variety of accompaniments.

> ... in the USA. We call beefburgers beefburgers.

No, we don't. That's a sort of "folk correction" of hamburger, based on
the perception that something with "ham" in its name ought to comprise ham,
which it doesn't. Restaurants offering "beefburgers" are pretending to serve
something that's of a higher quality than ordinary hamburgers, which is what
they're called in the vast majority of outlets and homes.

> And for the OP, it would be a chicken burger.

Only if it were made from ground chicken.

The chicken sandwiches at fast-food restaurants are made with chicken breasts,
either grilled or deep-fryed.

Occasionally a special menu item is a turkeyburger, which is made with
ground turkey.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 1:18:46 PM UTC-5, Pablo wrote:
> charles wrote:
>
> > In article <ce90rb...@mid.individual.net>, Pablo <no...@nowhere.net>
> > wrote:
> >> charles wrote:
> >
> >> > In article <eecf7da9-dbf0-452a...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> > Yurui Liu <liuyur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >
> >> >> I have a couple of questions about burgers and sandwiches.
> >> >
> >> >> Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?
> >> >
> >> >> On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'. Why
> >> >> is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger? It looks no different
> >> >> from a hamburger to my eyes.
> >> >
> >> >> I'd appreciate your help.
> >> >
> >> > "Hamburger" is strictly speaking just the filling - which is made of
> >> > beef - not ham.
> >
> >> ... in the USA. We call beefburgers beefburgers.
> >
> > do you make hamburger out of ham?
> >
>
> I don't make hamburgers. The local Spanish make "hamburguesas" with pork.
>
> I make beefburgers. With beef.
>
> Anyway, don't they call the filling "patties" in the USA?

As an ingredient. Not as a served item. The descriptive menu might specify
"An 8-ounce all-beef patty ,,,," but you don't order "a patty."{

[charles]

In article <993ff8b3-f3fb-4c40...@googlegroups.com>, Peter

at "country" shows I've bought "veniburgers"

[Mack A. Damia]

On Wed, 3 Dec 2014 11:05:58 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 12:50:39 PM UTC-5, Pablo wrote:
>> charles wrote:

>> ... in the USA. We call beefburgers beefburgers.
>

>No, we don't. (snip)

I can attest to that. I don't think I have heard or seen the word,
"beefburger" since the 1970s during the Great Wave of Gentrification.

--

[Pablo]

Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 12:50:39 PM UTC-5, Pablo wrote:
>> charles wrote:

>> We call beefburgers beefburgers.
>
> No, we don't.

I always have since childhood. And every Brit I've ever known has too. And
whilst in the USA I believe, if I have referred to a beefburger I will have
called it a "burger". "Hamburger" was "what they call beefburgers in the
USA".

[Ross]

On Thursday, December 4, 2014 8:06:02 AM UTC+13, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> Occasionally a special menu item is a turkeyburger, which is made with
> ground turkey.

In the 1960s, my uncle ran a place by the highway in Silverdale, BC, called
"The Gobbler", where turkeyburgers were the central menu item. It was not
a success.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 3:24:02 PM UTC-5, Pablo wrote:
> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 12:50:39 PM UTC-5, Pablo wrote:
> >> charles wrote:

> >> We call beefburgers beefburgers.
> > No, we don't.
>
> I always have since childhood. And every Brit I've ever known has too. And
> whilst in the USA I believe, if I have referred to a beefburger I will have
> called it a "burger". "Hamburger" was "what they call beefburgers in the
> USA".

I was responding to your line

"> > ... in the USA. We call beefburgers beefburgers."

Apparently there was a period in there, but it made no sense in context.

[Peter T. Daniels]

In 2013, Burger King had turkeyburgers as a special item for about a month
-- until the week before Thanksgiving. They were even on the "2 for $5"
promotion that they still have (rotating various special items every few
weeks).

Unlike any other turkeyburger or turkey meatball I've ever experienced,
the BK ones were not dry. (I suppose that means they mixed in some fat
from some other source.) And they actually had the flavor of turkey.

[Charles Bishop]

In article <0381267f-dd0e-49ff...@googlegroups.com>,

It did if you see that it refers to the poster Pablo was replying to.

I think that's the reason for the ellipsis too.

--
charles

[Charles Bishop]

In article <18eba68c-504c-4851...@googlegroups.com>,

Too soon, do you think? The 60s were not a low-fat decade.

--
charles

[Oliver Cromm]

* Don Phillipson:

> 5. All this antedated contemporary concern about diet
> (sugar pop, high-fat meats as in hamburger etc.)

I don't associate hamburgers with high-fat meat. Especially not in
the fast-food chains.

--
Pentiums melt in your PC, not in your hand.

[Oliver Cromm]

* Charles Bishop:

Peter does not seem to be familiar with this function of the
ellipsis, completing a sentence that one feels is incomplete.

--
"Bother", said the Borg, as they assimilated Pooh.

[Oliver Cromm]

* Don Phillipson:

> 1. "Hamburger" = Hamburger steak, a patty of ground beef
> (not much different from what Canadians used to call a
> Salisbury steak and Britons a rissole.)

In Japan, it's called a "Hamburg steak". Sometimes shortened to
"Hamburg", not to be confused with "Hamburger".

--
Bill Gates working as a waiter:
- Waiter, there's a fly in my soup
- Try again, maybe it won't be there this time

[Peter Moylan]

On 04/12/14 05:18, Pablo wrote:

> Anyway, don't they call the filling "patties" in the USA?

That takes me back to an argument in AUE between Bun Mui and one of our
Irish RRs. I made a comment about "one all-beefcake Paddy on a Sesame
Street Bun".

Looking back, I'm now wondering whether that's why he left AUE.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org

[Peter Moylan]

On 04/12/14 06:05, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 12:50:39 PM UTC-5, Pablo wrote:

>> ... in the USA. We call beefburgers beefburgers.
>
> No, we don't.

What do you mean "we", white man? I don't believe Pablo is in the USA.

[John Varela]

Accurately said. Pablo and the OP are advised to ignore all others.

Just one comment: restaurants are liable to stray from these
definitions for reasons of their own. So for example you may see
something called a "Whopper" which is just a particular size of
hamburger offered by a particular restaurant chain.

The chicken sandwich, if served on a hamburger bun, might at some
restaurants be called a "chickenburger". You might also see
variations like "veggieburger" or "turkeyburger". None of those are
universal nomenclature. To the purist, a hamburger can only be made
with ground beef.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

On Wed, 3 Dec 2014 22:46:03 UTC, Oliver Cromm
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

> * Don Phillipson:
>
> > 1. "Hamburger" = Hamburger steak, a patty of ground beef
> > (not much different from what Canadians used to call a
> > Salisbury steak and Britons a rissole.)
>
> In Japan, it's called a "Hamburg steak". Sometimes shortened to
> "Hamburg", not to be confused with "Hamburger".

I've seen that on US menus. Probably that was in Boston, but maybe
elsewhere.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

On Wed, 3 Dec 2014 23:38:44 UTC, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org>
wrote:

> On 04/12/14 06:05, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 12:50:39 PM UTC-5, Pablo wrote:
>
> >> ... in the USA. We call beefburgers beefburgers.
> >
> > No, we don't.
>
> What do you mean "we", white man? I don't believe Pablo is in the USA.

I know that punch line as "What you mean-um 'we', Paleface?" said by
Tonto to the Lone Ranger.

I think Pablo is a Brit in Spain.

--
John Varela

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 18:43:38 +0000 (GMT), charles
<cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <m5nkt2$995$1...@news.albasani.net>, Don Phillipson
><e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
>> >> > Yurui Liu <liuyur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'.
>> >> >> Why is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger? It looks no
>> >> >> different
>
>> "charles" <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:547053f4...@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
>
>> > do you make hamburger out of ham?
>
>> As we might have guessed, Wikipedia is helpful at
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger#Claims_of_invention but settles
>> few irreconcilable claims of folk etymology, first creation and so on.
>> But we can probably agree.
>
>> 1. "Hamburger" = Hamburger steak, a patty of ground beef (not much
>> different from what Canadians used to call a Salisbury steak and Britons
>> a rissole.)
>
>A rissole, as my mother made them, was more egg shaped - certinly not flat.

In any case, a rissole may not be just meaty stuff: a pattie, a meatball
or some shape in between. It will often be coated with breadcrumbs, and
sometimes with batter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rissole

>the equivalent flat thing was called a "Vienna Steak".
>
>[Snip]
>
>> 3. The syllable
>> ham- suggested creation of similar words e.g. beefburger and cheeseburger
>
>but not "Weinburger"

--

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Don Phillipson]

"Oliver Cromm" <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote in message
news:1e3gosjj111fy$.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info...

> Peter does not seem to be familiar with this function of the
> ellipsis, completing a sentence that one feels is incomplete.

Peter may or may not be familiar with the ellipsis, but it
completes no sentences (except adventitiously.)

[Robert Bannister]

On 4/12/2014 2:29 am, Don Phillipson wrote:

> 4. The Macdonald's chain (international from the 1960s)
> with associated TV advertising did much to make the
> hamburger a common dish world-wide.

Which is interesting because MacD's never use the word "hamburger". From
memory, I don't think they even use "-burger". The last time I was
forced to eat there, I had an "Angus" something or other - I was hoping
for real steak, but it was minced beef, bacon and yellow-orange stuff.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

[Robert Bannister]

On 4/12/2014 4:23 am, Pablo wrote:
> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 12:50:39 PM UTC-5, Pablo wrote:
>>> charles wrote:
>
>>> We call beefburgers beefburgers.
>>
>> No, we don't.
>
> I always have since childhood. And every Brit I've ever known has too. And
> whilst in the USA I believe, if I have referred to a beefburger I will have
> called it a "burger". "Hamburger" was "what they call beefburgers in the
> USA".
>

How very odd. The first things like that sold in England (to the best of
my knowledge) were sold in Wimpy bars, and I think they were called
"Wimpies". They were small and rather dry and had no accompaniment
except possibly onion - my memory is faltering here. That was back in
the 60s, but we knew the word "hamburger" from films, TV and books. I
don't recall meeting the word "beefburger" until I had been in Australia
a while - so, late 70s. I think there is one fast-food chain here that
uses "beefburger", but I wouldn't swear to that. You don't even see
"hamburger" much any more - it's plain "burger" or [myfranchise]-burger.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Yurui Liu skrev:

> I have a couple of questions about burgers and sandwiches.

> Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?

No, it is meaningless. A hamburger is one thing and a sandwich is
another, but I can't tell you the difference as it applies to the
English language.

For me in Denmark, a sandwich is made with two slices of bread,
while a burger is made with a bun that is cut through. In both
cases you can put anything (edible) in between.

--
Bertel, Denmark

[Tony Cooper]

I certainly can't argue with what you think of as a sandwich, and as a
burger, but a visit here could be confusing for you.

There are restaurants here that serve fish and chicken on a bun. In
fact, I can't think of any that serve fish or chicken between two
slices of bread.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 5:44:21 PM UTC-5, Oliver Cromm wrote:
> * Don Phillipson:
>
> > 5. All this antedated contemporary concern about diet
> > (sugar pop, high-fat meats as in hamburger etc.)
>
> I don't associate hamburgers with high-fat meat. Especially not in
> the fast-food chains.

Why do you suppose Wendy's burgers are so "juicy" (i.e., greasy)? (I don't
go there any more.)

In the supermarket there are usually three grades of ground beef: 90%
lean, 85% lean, 80% lean -- referring to the proportion of non-fat in
the mixture. (The last is the least expensive.)

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 7:13:37 PM UTC-5, John Varela wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Dec 2014 23:38:44 UTC, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On 04/12/14 06:05, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 12:50:39 PM UTC-5, Pablo wrote:
> >
> > >> ... in the USA. We call beefburgers beefburgers.
> > >
> > > No, we don't.
> >
> > What do you mean "we", white man? I don't believe Pablo is in the USA.
>
> I know that punch line as "What you mean-um 'we', Paleface?" said by
> Tonto to the Lone Ranger.

When did Tonto ever throw in an "-um" like that? It was
"What you mean 'We," kimosabe?"

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 9:38:17 PM UTC-5, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 4/12/2014 2:29 am, Don Phillipson wrote:
>
> > 4. The Macdonald's chain (international from the 1960s)
> > with associated TV advertising did much to make the
> > hamburger a common dish world-wide.
>
> Which is interesting because MacD's never use the word "hamburger". From
> memory, I don't think they even use "-burger". The last time I was
> forced to eat there, I had an "Angus" something or other - I was hoping
> for real steak, but it was minced beef, bacon and yellow-orange stuff.

More weirdnesses from McDonalds Australia. The only "yellow-orange stuff"
I can imagine is mustard, which I've never seen offered at McDonalds.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 10:56:34 PM UTC-5, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Yurui Liu skrev:
>
> > I have a couple of questions about burgers and sandwiches.
>
> > Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?
>
> No, it is meaningless. A hamburger is one thing and a sandwich is
> another, but I can't tell you the difference as it applies to the
> English language.

No, it is not meaningless, just obsolete.

[Ross]

On Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:31:03 AM UTC+13, Don Phillipson wrote:
> >> > Yurui Liu <liuyur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >

> >> >> Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?
> >> >

> >> >> On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'. Why
> >> >> is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger? It looks no different
>
> "charles" <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:547053f4...@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
>
> > do you make hamburger out of ham?
>
> As we might have guessed, Wikipedia is helpful at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger#Claims_of_invention
> but settles few irreconcilable claims of folk etymology, first
> creation and so on. But we can probably agree.
>
> 1. "Hamburger" = Hamburger steak, a patty of ground beef
> (not much different from what Canadians used to call a

> Salisbury steak and Britons a rissole.) The name invokes
> the German port city (not ham = smoked pork.)
> 2. About 1900 some enterprising American vendor of fast
> food started selling Hamburger sandwiches i.e. a Hamburger
> steak inside a bread bun. This is now an American staple food,
> the everyday hamburger.

> 3. The syllable ham- suggested creation of similar words

> e.g. beefburger and cheeseburger (cf. also Frankfurter sausage,
> shortened to franks, available for extension as in chickenfurter.)

> 4. The Macdonald's chain (international from the 1960s)
> with associated TV advertising did much to make the
> hamburger a common dish world-wide.

Yes, well, they certainly sold a lot of them, but hamburgers were
well known, well made and popular in NZ well before McD's
arrived on the scene (late 1970s). I would associate their
arrival with the presence of American soldiers during WWII.
Someone else has mentioned the Wimpy's chain in the UK which
I'm pretty sure antedates Macca's.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Tony Cooper skrev:

> I certainly can't argue with what you think of as a sandwich, and as a
> burger, but a visit here could be confusing for you.

I think I could manage, but thanks for the warning.

> There are restaurants here that serve fish and chicken on a bun. In
> fact, I can't think of any that serve fish or chicken between two
> slices of bread.

How then do you tell the difference between a burger and a
sandwich?

--
Bertel, Denmark

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <75974537-83dc-48ee...@googlegroups.com>,

Popeye's pal Wimpy always was asking for a hamburger today, which he
would always promise to pay for on Tuesday.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Wellington_Wimpy>

[James Hogg]

Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 4/12/2014 2:29 am, Don Phillipson wrote:
>
>> 4. The Macdonald's chain (international from the 1960s)
>> with associated TV advertising did much to make the
>> hamburger a common dish world-wide.
>
> Which is interesting because MacD's never use the word "hamburger". From
> memory, I don't think they even use "-burger". The last time I was
> forced to eat there, I had an "Angus" something or other - I was hoping
> for real steak, but it was minced beef, bacon and yellow-orange stuff.

The corporation in question is McDonald's.

--
James

[R H Draney]

Yurui Liu filted:

>
>On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'.
>Why is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger?

>It looks no different from a hamburger to my eyes.

Well, *this* is certainly refreshing...instead of asking why a hamburger isn't a
sandwich as the question has been raised here time and time again, you've asked
why a sandwich isn't a hamburger....

Do we have some kind of award for this?...r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[R H Draney]

charles filted:

>
>In article <m5nkt2$995$1...@news.albasani.net>, Don Phillipson
><e9...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
>

>> 3. The syllable
>> ham- suggested creation of similar words e.g. beefburger and cheeseburger
>

>but not "Weinburger"

Certainly not with *that* atrocious spelling:

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bella/HarveysSign.jpg

Culver's sells something they call a "Butterburger"....r

[Pablo]

Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 3:24:02 PM UTC-5, Pablo wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:

>> > On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 12:50:39 PM UTC-5, Pablo wrote:

>> >> charles wrote:
>
>> >> We call beefburgers beefburgers.
>> > No, we don't.
>>

>> I always have since childhood. And every Brit I've ever known has too.
>> And whilst in the USA I believe, if I have referred to a beefburger I
>> will have called it a "burger". "Hamburger" was "what they call
>> beefburgers in the USA".
>

> I was responding to your line

> "> > ... in the USA. We call beefburgers beefburgers."
>

> Apparently there was a period in there, but it made no sense in context.

See those dots? It was supposed to be a continuation of the quoted text.
Then the following was a completely new sentence.

--

Pablo

http://www.ipernity.com/home/313627
http://paulc.es/

[Peter Moylan]

No, they call it cheese. It looks a bit like cheese, but doesn't taste
like it. The technical name, I'm told, is "American cheese", which they
can get away with because "cheese" is not a protected word.

Most of the time I avoid Maccas, but now and then I'll buy a
cheeseburger to eat while taking the shopping back to the car, when I'm
desperate for a sugar hit. They have more sugar in their buns than any
other bread product I've ever met.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, December 4, 2014 12:53:49 AM UTC-5, Ross wrote:

> Yes, well, they certainly sold a lot of them, but hamburgers were
> well known, well made and popular in NZ well before McD's
> arrived on the scene (late 1970s). I would associate their
> arrival with the presence of American soldiers during WWII.
> Someone else has mentioned the Wimpy's chain in the UK which
> I'm pretty sure antedates Macca's.

"Macca's"????

Is that somehow related to "Mickey D"?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, December 4, 2014 6:39:15 AM UTC-5, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 04/12/14 15:52, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 9:38:17 PM UTC-5, Robert Bannister wrote:
> >> On 4/12/2014 2:29 am, Don Phillipson wrote:

> >>> 4. The Macdonald's chain (international from the 1960s)
> >>> with associated TV advertising did much to make the
> >>> hamburger a common dish world-wide.
> >> Which is interesting because MacD's never use the word "hamburger". From
> >> memory, I don't think they even use "-burger". The last time I was
> >> forced to eat there, I had an "Angus" something or other - I was hoping
> >> for real steak, but it was minced beef, bacon and yellow-orange stuff.
> > More weirdnesses from McDonalds Australia. The only "yellow-orange stuff"
> > I can imagine is mustard, which I've never seen offered at McDonalds.
>
> No, they call it cheese. It looks a bit like cheese, but doesn't taste
> like it. The technical name, I'm told, is "American cheese", which they
> can get away with because "cheese" is not a protected word.

Its use in consumer product labeling suggests that it certainly is.
There are many different cheese-like products available in any grocery's
refrigerator cabinet, alongside "American cheese." These include "American
cheese food" and "American cheese food product." One no longer sees a similar
assortment with "Swiss" in place of "American."

Calling the McD's version "yellow-orange" should invoke reference to a
Pantone color chart.

> Most of the time I avoid Maccas, but now and then I'll buy a
> cheeseburger to eat while taking the shopping back to the car, when I'm
> desperate for a sugar hit. They have more sugar in their buns than any
> other bread product I've ever met.

You continue to present that canard, and it continues to show that the
Australian market must be very strange indeed.

[Jerry Friedman]

In America, anything with "burger" in its name has to contain a patty of
ground meat or something vegetarian with a similar texture.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Tony Cooper]

I don't see any need whatsoever to impose a strict distinction between
the two.

A burger, to me, is a patty of meat. If it's brought to me on a bun
or between two slices of bread, it's still a burger. Later in the
day, I would be perfectly comfortable saying I had a sandwich for
lunch regardless of what it was encased in.

Arguments about the difference between a sandwich and a burger are
fine in aue, but once you leave your keyboard they are meaningless.

[Tony Cooper]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 08:04:10 +0100, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
wrote:

McD's will add both ketchup and mustard to a hamburger unless you
specify different. I assume it's that combination that Rob sees as
"yellow-orange".

[Charles Bishop]

In article <b7u08adq3knnel54s...@4ax.com>,

Nooooooooo! Say it isn't so.

--
charles

[Charles Bishop]

In article <a9b0f8b2-e4f3-428d...@googlegroups.com>,

One of the chains had a "secret sauce" which was a combination of two or
more of mayonaise(?), mustard, ketchup, relish and possibly something
else. The color would have been that of the mixture.

--
charles

[Charles Bishop]

In article <m5ph4f$pcm$1...@dont-email.me>,

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org> wrote:

> On 04/12/14 15:52, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 9:38:17 PM UTC-5, Robert Bannister wrote:
> >> On 4/12/2014 2:29 am, Don Phillipson wrote:
> >>
> >>> 4. The Macdonald's chain (international from the 1960s)
> >>> with associated TV advertising did much to make the
> >>> hamburger a common dish world-wide.
> >>
> >> Which is interesting because MacD's never use the word "hamburger". From
> >> memory, I don't think they even use "-burger". The last time I was
> >> forced to eat there, I had an "Angus" something or other - I was hoping
> >> for real steak, but it was minced beef, bacon and yellow-orange stuff.
> >
> > More weirdnesses from McDonalds Australia. The only "yellow-orange stuff"
> > I can imagine is mustard, which I've never seen offered at McDonalds.
>
> No, they call it cheese. It looks a bit like cheese, but doesn't taste
> like it. The technical name, I'm told, is "American cheese", which they
> can get away with because "cheese" is not a protected word.

I think here, it's "cheese food" which I understand is offensive to
those who can easily find real cheese.

>
> Most of the time I avoid Maccas, but now and then I'll buy a
> cheeseburger to eat while taking the shopping back to the car, when I'm
> desperate for a sugar hit. They have more sugar in their buns than any
> other bread product I've ever met.

--

charles

[Peter T. Daniels]

Not around here, they don't. The standard ("unmarked," if you were familiar
with linguistic terminology) Quarter-Pounder or Hamburger (from the Dollar
Menu; two of them on one bun is a McDouble) has ketchup and dill pickle slices. The Quarter-Pounder also has segments of raw onion rings.

[Peter T. Daniels]

That's a Big Mac (which is now imitated in the superior Big King at BK):
"two all-beef patties special sauce lettuce cheese pickles onions on a
ses'me seed bun." Anyone of a certain age can sing that jingle. (There's
an additional thin round of bread between the patties.)

The "special sauce" was widely believed to be Thousand-Island dressing,
but it's white rather than Russian-dressing-colored.

[John Dawkins]

In article <m5ounv$qm4$1...@dont-email.me>,

Bertel Lund Hansen <gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

> Tony Cooper skrev:
>
> > I certainly can't argue with what you think of as a sandwich, and as a
> > burger, but a visit here could be confusing for you.
>
> I think I could manage, but thanks for the warning.
>
> > There are restaurants here that serve fish and chicken on a bun. In
> > fact, I can't think of any that serve fish or chicken between two
> > slices of bread.

Though chicken salad is often served between slices of toast. (Cue Jack
Nicholson.)

> How then do you tell the difference between a burger and a
> sandwich?

You ask Richard Fontana.
--
J.

[John Dawkins]

In article <oku08a1nhucd1ling...@4ax.com>,

More likely the slice of American cheese.
--
J.

[Mike Barnes]

the Omrud wrote:
> On 03/12/2014 17:05, Yurui Liu wrote:
>> Hi,

>>
>> I have a couple of questions about burgers and sandwiches.
>>

>> Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?
>>

>> On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'.
>> Why is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger?
>> It looks no different from a hamburger to my eyes.
>

> <Dons hard hat>

[kills thread]

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

[Oliver Cromm]

* Don Phillipson:

> "Oliver Cromm" <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote in message
> news:1e3gosjj111fy$.dlg@mid.crommatograph.info...
>
>> Peter does not seem to be familiar with this function of the
>> ellipsis, completing a sentence that one feels is incomplete.
>
> Peter may or may not be familiar with the ellipsis, but it
> completes no sentences (except adventitiously.)

Is this really the only reading of what I wrote? I wanted to say
that the ellipsis has a use in the process of completing
sentences, not that it does so on its own. More specifically, it
signals that what follows is a completion of the preceding
sentence.

--
Democracy means government by the uneducated,
while aristocracy means government by the badly educated.
-- G. K. Chesterton

[Katy Jennison]

On 04/12/2014 15:15, Tony Cooper wrote:

> Arguments about the difference between a sandwich and a burger are
> fine in aue, but once you leave your keyboard they are meaningless.

Maybe we should have a section on the website, to which we could refer
future enquirers, so we wouldn't have to re-run the whole shooting-match
every time.

--
Katy Jennison

[Charles Bishop]

In article <m5qa06$aos$1...@news.albasani.net>,

That'll work.




charles, you've been on USENET how long?

[Charles Bishop]

In article <artfldodgr-68D1A...@news.individual.net>,

Assuming he's who I think he is, what would he say?

--
charles

[Charles Bishop]

In article <1e3gosjj111fy$.d...@mid.crommatograph.info>,
Oliver Cromm <lispa...@crommatograph.info> .sigged:

> --
> "Bother", said the Borg, as they assimilated Pooh.

You were almost due a bill for a new keyboard, but I was able to swallow
rather than spit the tea. I made the mistake of sipping after I finished
reading the text but before glancing at the .sig.

I am more familiar with Pooh as a cultural reference, but do know enough
about the place of the Borg in same to have had to gulp tea.

--
cahrles

[Mack A. Damia]

I maintain that a burger is cooked and served on a round roll while a
sandwich may be cooked but is served between two slices of bread.

--

[Richard Bollard]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 10:38:11 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

>On 4/12/2014 2:29 am, Don Phillipson wrote:
>
>> 4. The Macdonald's chain (international from the 1960s)
>> with associated TV advertising did much to make the
>> hamburger a common dish world-wide.
>
>Which is interesting because MacD's never use the word "hamburger". From
>memory, I don't think they even use "-burger". The last time I was
>forced to eat there, I had an "Angus" something or other - I was hoping
>for real steak, but it was minced beef, bacon and yellow-orange stuff.

Bloody "Angus"-everything now. Angus beef is cod-ordinary cow but now
that it has a special name, everything is coming up Angus.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia

To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.

[Peter Moylan]

McD's should be given credit for one innovation. Prior to the arrival of
the chain in this country, Australian hamburger vendors hadn't thought
of putting cheese (or even imitation cheese) into a hamburger. Our
hamburgers contained only the beef patty, egg, bacon, lettuce, beetroot,
tomato, and onion. The pineapple came later, I think, and cheese is
still not often included.

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <mqn18adojup9vvejr...@4ax.com>,

Steer, I think, not cow. I hope.

"Black Angus" is a trademark (or certification mark) of a particular
beef marking group. I don't know what requirements they actually have
to apply that market to a product, but I had "Black Angus" hot dogs a
few days ago (in California, at a Wienerschnitzel drive-in[1]).

-GAWollman

[1] AFAICT, Wienerschnitzel doesn't actually sell any Wiener
Schnitzel. Presumably they just liked the name (for a play on
"wiener" = "hot dog") without regard to its actual meaning.
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[Ross]

This sounds pretty similar to what Kiwis think of as _their_ local
tradition. McD's even came up with a "Kiwiburger" to cater to this
taste:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwiburger

The article confirms the pre-Mac hamburger traditions of both Aus & NZ, and
even mentions the recent "Angus" fad (also seen here on fancier supermarket
pies). But the K-burger apparently does have cheese -- practically compulsory
here with the enormous dairy industry.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Cheese is not placed _into_ hamburgers. It is placed _on top_ of the
burger, part way through the cooking of the second side, so that it
melts just a little bit.

Though one of the "casual dining" chains that heavily advertise on TV
is now promoting its innovation of putting the various toppings _inside_
the burger (it looks like they layer them between two patties and crimp
the edges together before broiling or grilling).

If you use egg in your ground beef as a binder, it's no longer a burger,
but a meat loaf (perhaps this "rissole" thing some people have mentioned).

Beets and (especiallY) pineapple are not normally on any burger chain's
menu, but perhaps some "gourmet" places offer them and many other unlikely
possibilities for the curious.

[Mike L]

On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 17:17:21 +0000, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>On 03/12/2014 17:05, Yurui Liu wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have a couple of questions about burgers and sandwiches.
>>
>> Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?
>>
>> On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'.
>> Why is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger?
>> It looks no different from a hamburger to my eyes.
>
><Dons hard hat>

Victoria sandwich.

--
Mike.

[Mike L]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 10:34:19 +1100, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org>
wrote:

>On 04/12/14 05:18, Pablo wrote:
>
>> Anyway, don't they call the filling "patties" in the USA?
>
>That takes me back to an argument in AUE between Bun Mui and one of our
>Irish RRs. I made a comment about "one all-beefcake Paddy on a Sesame
>Street Bun".
>
>Looking back, I'm now wondering whether that's why he left AUE.

A RR I held in the highest esteem. _Did_ anybody ever find out why he
left us?

--
Mike.

[Peter Moylan]

From the picture in that article, it looks as if they committed a
fundamental error. A McDonald's bun is too small to contain all the
ingredients. I can imagine the customers having half the contents
falling to the floor as they struggled with it.

> The article confirms the pre-Mac hamburger traditions of both Aus & NZ, and
> even mentions the recent "Angus" fad (also seen here on fancier supermarket
> pies). But the K-burger apparently does have cheese -- practically compulsory
> here with the enormous dairy industry.

In the interests of accuracy, I should have added that the Australian
hamburger I described above is the one known as a "works burger" or
"hamburger with the lot" or something similar. (The terminology varies
with location.) It is also possible to buy a "plain hamburger" that
contains the meat and salad ingredients, but not the egg or bacon.

A variety of web pages confirm that the Australian and New Zealand
traditional hamburgers are similar. I would imagine that that is because
of the strong cultural ties between the two countries.

There used to be a hamburger place on the highway between here and
Sydney whose hamburger buns were the size of a dinner plate, with
contents to match. If you had one of those you didn't want to eat for
the rest of the day. That shop was put out of business when it was
bypassed by a highway upgrade.

[Katy Jennison]

On 04/12/2014 23:14, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Thursday, December 4, 2014 5:36:38 PM UTC-5, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>
>> McD's should be given credit for one innovation. Prior to the arrival of
>> the chain in this country, Australian hamburger vendors hadn't thought
>> of putting cheese (or even imitation cheese) into a hamburger. Our
>> hamburgers contained only the beef patty, egg, bacon, lettuce, beetroot,
>> tomato, and onion. The pineapple came later, I think, and cheese is
>> still not often included.
>
> Cheese is not placed _into_ hamburgers. It is placed _on top_ of the
> burger, part way through the cooking of the second side, so that it
> melts just a little bit.

I know I should resist adding to this thread, but - is not "the
hamburger" the whole kitten caboodle, ie the complete assemblage of bun,
patty, cheese, lettuce, tomato, onion, and sauce? Thus, placing the
cheese into the hamburger simply means putting it on top of the patty
and then putting the top half of the bun on top of it, with the result
that it's inside. If Peter Moylan had meant to convey the idea of
inserting the cheese into the patty itself, he'd have said it differently.

--
Katy Jennison

[Robert Bannister]

On 4/12/2014 12:52 pm, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 9:38:17 PM UTC-5, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 4/12/2014 2:29 am, Don Phillipson wrote:
>>
>>> 4. The Macdonald's chain (international from the 1960s)
>>> with associated TV advertising did much to make the
>>> hamburger a common dish world-wide.
>>
>> Which is interesting because MacD's never use the word "hamburger". From
>> memory, I don't think they even use "-burger". The last time I was
>> forced to eat there, I had an "Angus" something or other - I was hoping
>> for real steak, but it was minced beef, bacon and yellow-orange stuff.
>

> More weirdnesses from McDonalds Australia. The only "yellow-orange stuff"
> I can imagine is mustard, which I've never seen offered at McDonalds.
>

I believe it was meant to be cheese.

--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia

[Robert Bannister]

On 4/12/2014 3:04 pm, James Hogg wrote:
> Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 4/12/2014 2:29 am, Don Phillipson wrote:
>>
>>> 4. The Macdonald's chain (international from the 1960s)
>>> with associated TV advertising did much to make the
>>> hamburger a common dish world-wide.
>>
>> Which is interesting because MacD's never use the word "hamburger".
>> From memory, I don't think they even use "-burger". The last time I
>> was forced to eat there, I had an "Angus" something or other - I was
>> hoping for real steak, but it was minced beef, bacon and yellow-orange
>> stuff.
>

> The corporation in question is McDonald's.
>

I live barely 200m from one and yet I can still never remember whether
it's "Mac" or "Mc". This is not helped by the fact that many people here
call it "Macca's".

[Robert Bannister]

Yes.

[Robert Bannister]

On 4/12/2014 12:12 pm, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Dec 2014 04:58:35 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
> <gade...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
>
>> Yurui Liu skrev:

>>
>>> I have a couple of questions about burgers and sandwiches.
>>
>>> Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?
>>

>> No, it is meaningless. A hamburger is one thing and a sandwich is
>> another, but I can't tell you the difference as it applies to the
>> English language.
>>
>> For me in Denmark, a sandwich is made with two slices of bread,
>> while a burger is made with a bun that is cut through. In both
>> cases you can put anything (edible) in between.

>
> I certainly can't argue with what you think of as a sandwich, and as a
> burger, but a visit here could be confusing for you.
>

> There are restaurants here that serve fish and chicken on a bun. In
> fact, I can't think of any that serve fish or chicken between two
> slices of bread.
>

"Fishburger" and "chickenburger" are not unknown words here.

[Robert Bannister]

And I agree at least for English. In France, a "sandwich" is usually a
length-wise sliced section of a baguette.

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <eecf7da9-dbf0-452a...@googlegroups.com>,

Yurui Liu <liuyur...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I have a couple of questions about burgers and sandwiches.
>
>Is the combination "cheeseburger sandwich" unidiomatic?

It's an odd way to phrase it, yes, but some places probably do say
that, at least on their menus and in legal documentation (such as
franchise agreements). I have a suspicion that "cheeseburger" may
once have been claimed as a trademark. This also allows them to use
one word to describe both burgers (ham-, turkey-, and veggie-) and
other kinds of protein-between-two-slices-of-bread when they don't
want or need to make that distinction. Cheeseburgers are
conventionally served on burger buns (which can be potato rolls,
kaiser rolls, deli rolls, onion rolls, or just "hamburger buns", with
or without sesame or poppy seeds, depending on preference); if one is
served between two slices of loaf bread, particularly rye bread, it's
a "patty melt" instead. But if a beef patty with melted cheese is
served without a bun, it's still a cheeseburger. (If you go to
In-N-Out Burger and ask for a "cheeseburger protein style", you'll get
one wrapped in a lettuce leaf instead of a bun.)

>On Wendy's menu, I see an item called 'crispy chicken sandwich'.
>Why is it called a sandwich instead of a hamburger?

Because it's deep-fat fried (hamburgers are not), battered (hamburgers
are not), and made of chicken (hamburgers are not). Of course, they
also sell a "grilled chicken sandwich" or something similar, which is
neither deep-fried nor battered, but is made of a single piece of
chicken meat, so it's still not a hamburger. And in the supermarket,
you can buy a frozen par-cooked "chicken patty", which is made of
ground chicken-meat scraps, binder, and filler,[1] but even if you
serve it on a hamburger bun, it's still not a "hamburger", it's a
chicken patty on a bun.

-GAWollman

[1] When I was young, you could also get, in the deli case, "chicken
roll", which was ground-up chicken scraps wrapped in a casing, cooked,
and sliced, bologna style. I recall there being "turkey roll" as
well, although why you'd bother to make the distinction escapes me.
Today, similar products seem to be made with larger scraps of meat,
rather than ground meat, and glued together with transglutaminase
("meat glue") rather than vegetable fillers, so they have more of a
meat-like texture -- and they're usually sold just as "chicken breast"
and "turkey breast". Of course, turkey breasts are so huge these
days, and so popular as a deli meat, that it's hardly necessary to
assemble a blob of meat from scraps. I suppose the turkey scraps must
now go into pot pies.

[Tony Cooper]

On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 10:30:36 +1100, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org>
wrote:

>In the interests of accuracy, I should have added that the Australian
>hamburger I described above is the one known as a "works burger" or
>"hamburger with the lot" or something similar. (The terminology varies
>with location.) It is also possible to buy a "plain hamburger" that
>contains the meat and salad ingredients, but not the egg or bacon.

I don't think I've seen a hamburger combined with egg. How is done?
Fried egg on top of it?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

[David D S]

Robert Bannister wrote:

> On 4/12/2014 2:29 am, Don Phillipson wrote:
>
> > 4. The Macdonald's chain (international from the 1960s)
> > with associated TV advertising did much to make the
> > hamburger a common dish world-wide.
>
> Which is interesting because MacD's never use the word "hamburger".
> From memory, I don't think they even use "-burger". The last time I
> was forced to eat there, I had an "Angus" something or other - I was
> hoping for real steak, but it was minced beef, bacon and
> yellow-orange stuff.

They should market a similar thing for the extremely lethargic, and
should concoct a story that these variants originate from
Heidelberg. The extremely lazy people would then become what
they eat.

--
David D S: UK and PR China. (Native BrEng speaker)
Use Reply-To header for email. This email address will be
valid for at least 2 weeks from 2014/12/5 10:52:54

[Charles Bishop]

In article <m5qrcb$emt$1...@news.albasani.net>,

The cheese should be put on the hamburger patty during the last phase of
cooking while it's on the grill. The cheese melts a bit onto the meat
patty. Then the hamburger is assembled.

Still, the cheese could be said to be placed in the hamburger, which is,
as you say the whole assembly. PTD again didn't consider another usage.

--
charles

[Peter T. Daniels]

No. Think of the menu listing and what you order as a metonymy. "I had
two burgers for lunch": The bun and some assortment of condiments are
assumed. If you had just the meat, on a plate with a fork, you might
say "I had two hamburger patties." But when you're constructing one,
you're not referring to the finished product, but to the components.

[Peter T. Daniels]

When we fry (or deep-fry) balls of ground (AusE: mince) fish or chicken,
they're "croquettes." "Fishwich" is probably someone's trademark, since
it's not seen everywhere, but chicken sandwiches are just chicken sandwiches.

[Charles Bishop]

In article <f3238473-945e-4b40...@googlegroups.com>,

I'm making a hamburger, I'm going to put cheese in/on it.

I going to use "on" in this case.

What do you want in/on your hamburger?

"on", again.

Charles, Eugene, is that you?

[Peter Moylan]

As I recall it, he got into a heated argument with someone (Rey?), and
was offended because nobody else backed him.

[Peter Moylan]

Exactly. Usually cooked in an egg ring so that it doesn't spread out too
far.

[Tak To]

Who said anything about "balls"? Here, "chicken
burger", "turkey burger", "salmon burger", etc are
_patties_ (or sandwiches comprising these patties).

And burgers (all kinds) are typically _griddled_ or
grilled in a restaurant.

--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ta...@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr

[Peter Moylan]

Quite right. Before it's inserted into the hamburger, the meat is just a
meat patty. You don't have a hamburger until you've finished assembling
the various layers.

[James Hogg]

Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 4/12/2014 3:04 pm, James Hogg wrote:
>> Robert Bannister wrote:
>>> On 4/12/2014 2:29 am, Don Phillipson wrote:
>>>
>>>> 4. The Macdonald's chain (international from the 1960s)
>>>> with associated TV advertising did much to make the
>>>> hamburger a common dish world-wide.
>>>
>>> Which is interesting because MacD's never use the word "hamburger".
>>> From memory, I don't think they even use "-burger". The last time I
>>> was forced to eat there, I had an "Angus" something or other - I was
>>> hoping for real steak, but it was minced beef, bacon and yellow-orange
>>> stuff.
>>
>> The corporation in question is McDonald's.
>>
> I live barely 200m from one and yet I can still never remember whether
> it's "Mac" or "Mc". This is not helped by the fact that many people here
> call it "Macca's".

For consistency they should have used the same spelling in "Bg Mc".

--
James

[Snidely]

On Thursday, Peter Moylan pointed out that ...

Just another layer, like the 2nd beef patty and the 3 cheese slices.

(Not often seen in the US except in "conspicuous consumption" settings,
like the Giant Burger in Lake Oswego. Their "Giant Burger" was only
about 6 inches across, but about 12 inches high.)

/dps

--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

[charles]

In article <mn.28087decbb69da45.127094@snitoo>,

Snidely <snide...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, Peter Moylan pointed out that ...
> > On 05/12/14 11:01, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >> On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 10:30:36 +1100, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In the interests of accuracy, I should have added that the Australian
> >>> hamburger I described above is the one known as a "works burger" or
> >>> "hamburger with the lot" or something similar. (The terminology varies
> >>> with location.) It is also possible to buy a "plain hamburger" that
> >>> contains the meat and salad ingredients, but not the egg or bacon.
> >>
> >> I don't think I've seen a hamburger combined with egg. How is done?
> >> Fried egg on top of it?
> >
> > Exactly. Usually cooked in an egg ring so that it doesn't spread out too
> > far.

> Just another layer, like the 2nd beef patty and the 3 cheese slices.

> (Not often seen in the US except in "conspicuous consumption" settings,
> like the Giant Burger in Lake Oswego. Their "Giant Burger" was only
> about 6 inches across, but about 12 inches high.)

get your mouth round one of those ?

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

[the Omrud]

On 04/12/2014 02:38, Robert Bannister wrote:
> On 4/12/2014 2:29 am, Don Phillipson wrote:
>
>> 4. The Macdonald's chain (international from the 1960s)
>> with associated TV advertising did much to make the
>> hamburger a common dish world-wide.
>
> Which is interesting because MacD's never use the word "hamburger". From
> memory, I don't think they even use "-burger".

They do in the UK:

http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/Food/beef.html

What else would the the Hamburglar hoping to purloin?

> The last time I was
> forced to eat there, I had an "Angus" something or other - I was hoping
> for real steak, but it was minced beef, bacon and yellow-orange stuff.

I have not set foot in a Mcdonalds these 20 years.

--
David

[the Omrud]

On 04/12/2014 23:14, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> If you use egg in your ground beef as a binder, it's no longer a burger,
> but a meat loaf (perhaps this "rissole" thing some people have mentioned).

A rissole (in the UK anyway) is more like a large meat ball. It's not
completely spherical; more like an oblate spheroid. It's made with
"good" cuts of minced meat, unlike the faggot, which is very similar in
appearance but is made from offal and is served in gravy.

--
David

[Pablo]

Is liver "offal"?

--

Pablo

http://www.ipernity.com/home/313627
http://paulc.es/

[Peter T. Daniels]

The pattern appears to be that when the sociopath selects a new victim,
no one -- except "Dr. HotSalt" -- "backs" the victim, quite possibly for
fear of being the next victim. Or, of course, everyone has "killfiled"
the sociopath and so never sees the victimization.

The result at times is that a valued contributor -- perhaps even a RR --
is hounded from the group.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Who serves ground chicken patties?

> And burgers (all kinds) are typically _griddled_ or
> grilled in a restaurant.

That's why comestibles involving ground chicken or ground fish aren't
burgers.

[Peter T. Daniels]

The meat is not "inserted into the hamburger." The meat is placed on (not
inserted into) the bun. Unless you get hamburgers involving pita?

[Peter T. Daniels]

That confirms that a rissole is a small meat loaf -- both in containing
a binder and in shape. But meat loaves are baked rather than deep-fried,
which I believe was mentioned as a characteristic of rissoles.

This "faggot" sounds like a stomachless "haggis" -- and perhaps represents
origin from a P-Celtic rather than a Q-Celtic language?