"messenging"
Dylan Nicholson
"Instant Messenging"? It gets a good 24,000 google hits, so is
obviously in reasonable circulation, yet as a word it doesn't make a
lot of sense..what's wrong with messengering? (a mere 771 hits!)
Curious
Dylan
CyberCypher
What's wrong with "Instant messaging"? As ugly as it is, it seems
unremarkable to say something like "I'll (instant-)message you tonight
if you're online".
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor.
John Varela
wrote:
Hint: "instant messaging" gets 2,830,000 hits.
--
John Varela
(Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.)
I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much.
Pat Durkin
"CyberCypher" <cybercypher2...@NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:Xns944D5DEC4...@130.133.1.4...
I'm for IM-ing. (eye-emming)
CyberCypher
I'll switch. This is much better.
Pat Durkin
"CyberCypher" <cybercypher2...@NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
But will it catch on? I don't really know how to do a Google search that
gives counts of uses, so maybe it is old hat, or being used by some other
neat chat usage.
( I only use the IMs with 3 or 4 family members, and then rarely, for fear I
will find my time absorbed completely by getting involved in a real-time
chat.)
CyberCypher
>
> "CyberCypher" <cybercypher2...@NOSPAM.net> wrote
[...]
>> > I'm for IM-ing. (eye-emming)
>>
>> I'll switch. This is much better.
>
> But will it catch on? I don't really know how to do a Google
> search that gives counts of uses, so maybe it is old hat, or being
> used by some other neat chat usage.
>
> ( I only use the IMs with 3 or 4 family members, and then rarely,
> for fear I will find my time absorbed completely by getting
> involved in a real-time chat.)
It appears from someone else's post about a Google search that "instant
messaging" has already caught on.
Default User
Maybe because "message" is already a verb, with transitive and
intransitive senses, while "messenger" is only a noun (as far as the
sources I checked say).
Main Entry: 2message
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): mes新aged; mes新ag搏ng
Date: 1583
transitive senses
1 : to send as a message or by messenger
2 : to send a message to
intransitive senses : to communicate by message
Brian Rodenborn
Ray Heindl
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:02:42 UTC, wizo...@hotmail.com (Dylan
> Nicholson) wrote:
>
>> Has anyone noticed this odd word-formation, particular in the
>> phrase "Instant Messenging"? It gets a good 24,000 google hits,
>> so is obviously in reasonable circulation, yet as a word it
>> doesn't make a lot of sense..what's wrong with messengering? (a
>> mere 771 hits!)
>
> Hint: "instant messaging" gets 2,830,000 hits.
And "IMing" gets only 23,000 (including a generous sprinkling of other
meanings). Given IMers' propensity for abbreviation, I'm surprised
"IMIng" isn't more common.
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)
Dylan Nicholson
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:02:42 UTC, wizo...@hotmail.com (Dylan Nicholson)
> wrote:
>
> > Has anyone noticed this odd word-formation, particular in the phrase
> > "Instant Messenging"? It gets a good 24,000 google hits, so is
> > obviously in reasonable circulation, yet as a word it doesn't make a
> > lot of sense..what's wrong with messengering? (a mere 771 hits!)
>
> Hint: "instant messaging" gets 2,830,000 hits.
Well yes, that would seem to be the obvious choice. It's actually
amazing how common 'messenge/messenges/messenged' are too. I suppose
it's because we don't really have a verb to mean 'do what a messenger
does' (ie send a message). Are there are any other '-er' words
describing a person or device where you can't remove the -er (or the
-r) to get the base verb? (I can think of one, engineer, but that's
not pronounced as an '-er' word).
R H Draney
>
>Well yes, that would seem to be the obvious choice. It's actually
>amazing how common 'messenge/messenges/messenged' are too. I suppose
>it's because we don't really have a verb to mean 'do what a messenger
>does' (ie send a message). Are there are any other '-er' words
>describing a person or device where you can't remove the -er (or the
>-r) to get the base verb? (I can think of one, engineer, but that's
>not pronounced as an '-er' word).
"Minister"?...r
Mark Brader
> Dylan Nicholson filted:
Filted?
>> we don't really have a verb to mean 'do what a messenger
>> does' (ie send a message). Are there are any other '-er' words
>> describing a person or device where you can't remove the -er (or the
>> -r) to get the base verb? (I can think of one, engineer, but that's
>> not pronounced as an '-er' word).
Filter!
Washer. (The little flat thing with a hole in it, that is.)
Barber.
Teamster.
And somewhat like "messenger" is "passenger", related to "passage".
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Unjutsly malinged? I think not."
m...@vex.net -- Ross Howard
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Donna Richoux
> > Dylan Nicholson filted:
> >> we don't really have a verb to mean 'do what a messenger
> >> does' (ie send a message). Are there are any other '-er' words
> >> describing a person or device where you can't remove the -er (or the
> >> -r) to get the base verb? (I can think of one, engineer, but that's
> >> not pronounced as an '-er' word).
>
> Filter!
>
> Washer. (The little flat thing with a hole in it, that is.)
>
> Barber.
>
> Teamster.
>
> And somewhat like "messenger" is "passenger", related to "passage".
Carpenter.
Plumber (I've heard the verb jocularly)
Butcher.
Butler
Soldier
Doctor and tailor almost qualify.
Some archaic ones like fletcher, cooper, chandler, webster, fuller.
You'd have to fiddle with compounds like steamfitter, gravedigger,
shoemaker.
There are surnames that I don't know if they were supposed to be
occupations or what:
Parker
Foster
Tucker
Palmer
Spencer
Warner
You might do better to list what *can* be shortened. Driver, teacher,
farmer, gardener...
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
rzed
> Mark Brader <m...@vex.net> wrote:
>
>>> Dylan Nicholson filted:
>
>>>> we don't really have a verb to mean 'do what a messenger
>>>> does' (ie send a message). Are there are any other '-er' words
>>>> describing a person or device where you can't remove the -er (or
>>>> the
>>>> -r) to get the base verb? (I can think of one, engineer, but
>>>> that's not pronounced as an '-er' word).
>>
>> Filter!
>>
>> Washer. (The little flat thing with a hole in it, that is.)
>>
>> Barber.
>>
>> Teamster.
>>
>> And somewhat like "messenger" is "passenger", related to "passage".
>
> Carpenter.
>
> Plumber (I've heard the verb jocularly)
The online 1913 Webster's has, for plumb (v.t.) - "(4)To supply, as a
building, with a system of plumbing", as well as "(3)To seal with
lead; as, to plumb a drainpipe", both of which sound like the work of
a plumber. Old jokes, I guess.
--
rzed
John Varela
> Some archaic ones like fletcher, cooper, chandler, webster, fuller.
Main Entry: fletch
Pronunciation: 'flech
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: back-formation from fletcher
Date: circa 1656
: FEATHER <fletch an arrow>
Main Entry: 5full
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French fouler to trample under foot,
from Medieval Latin fullare to walk, trample, full, from Latin fullo fuller
Date: 14th century
: to shrink and thicken (woolen cloth) by moistening, heating, and pressing
Donna Richoux
> On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:22:43 UTC, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote:
>
> > Some archaic ones like fletcher, cooper, chandler, webster, fuller.
>
> Main Entry: fletch
> Pronunciation: 'flech
> Function: transitive verb
> Etymology: back-formation from fletcher
> Date: circa 1656
> : FEATHER <fletch an arrow>
Yeah, true, yet... notice that it's a back-formation, three hundred
years after "fletcher" (14th century).
>
> Main Entry: 5full
> Function: transitive verb
> Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French fouler to trample under foot,
> from Medieval Latin fullare to walk, trample, full, from Latin fullo fuller
> Date: 14th century
> : to shrink and thicken (woolen cloth) by moistening, heating, and pressing
Same problem. M-W.com says that "fuller" is *older*, before 12th
century.
So you're right, fletchers fletched and fullers fulled. Still, that only
was said a few centuries after the occupation names existed. If people
start saying now that butlers buttle (I think that one's been around,
actually) and carpenters carpent, then they'll qualify, too.
Now it crosses my mind to wonder if any of the ordinary ones, like
teacher and farmer, have this same reverse history.
R H Draney
>
>R.H. Draney writes:
>> Dylan Nicholson filted:
>
>Filted?
>
>>> we don't really have a verb to mean 'do what a messenger
>>> does' (ie send a message). Are there are any other '-er' words
>>> describing a person or device where you can't remove the -er (or the
>>> -r) to get the base verb? (I can think of one, engineer, but that's
>>> not pronounced as an '-er' word).
>
>Filter!
Yeah....
That occurred to me about two seconds after I sent my other answer....r
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Plumber (I've heard the verb jocularly)
And, I suspect, non-jocularly in the older sense, as in "plumb the
depths". Both words, of course, come from the use of lead.
> There are surnames that I don't know if they were supposed to be
> occupations or what:
> Palmer
13: And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes,
14: To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes;
15: And specially from every shires ende
16: Of engelond to caunterbury they wende,
17: The hooly blisful martir for to seke,
18: That hem hath holpen whan that they were seeke.
Main Entry: palm·er
Date: 13th century
: a person wearing two crossed palm leaves as a sign of a
pilgrimage made to the Holy Land
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The Society for the Preservation of
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Tithesis commends your ebriated and
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |scrutable use of delible and
|defatigable, which are gainly, sipid
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |and couth. We are gruntled and
(650)857-7572 |consolate that you have the ertia and
|eptitude to choose such putably
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |pensible tithesis, which we parage.
Skitt
> Mark Brader wrote:
>>> Dylan Nicholson filted:
>>>> we don't really have a verb to mean 'do what a messenger
>>>> does' (ie send a message). Are there are any other '-er' words
>>>> describing a person or device where you can't remove the -er (or
>>>> the -r) to get the base verb? (I can think of one, engineer, but
>>>> that's not pronounced as an '-er' word).
>>
>> Filter!
>>
>> Washer. (The little flat thing with a hole in it, that is.)
>>
>> Barber.
>>
>> Teamster.
>>
>> And somewhat like "messenger" is "passenger", related to "passage".
>
> Carpenter.
>
> Plumber (I've heard the verb jocularly)
No joke about it:
Main Entry: 3plumb
Function: verb
Date: 15th century
transitive senses
1 : to weight with lead
2 a : to measure the depth of with a plumb b : to examine minutely and
critically <plumbing the book's complexities>
3 : to adjust or test by a plumb line
4 : to seal with lead
5 [back-formation from plumber] : to supply with or install as plumbing
intransitive senses : to work as a plumber
AHD4 arees.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
Sara Moffat Lorimer
> Are there are any other '-er' words
> describing a person or device where you can't remove the -er (or the
> -r) to get the base verb? (I can think of one, engineer, but that's
> not pronounced as an '-er' word).
Lorimer -- it's from "lorum," Latin for thong. Lorimers make bridles.
(At least in theory we do, but I'm afraid of horses.)
--
SML
ess el five six zero at columbia dot edu
http://pirate-women.com
John Varela
> Some archaic ones like fletcher, cooper, chandler, webster, fuller.
Farrier.
Alec McKenzie
wizo...@hotmail.com (Dylan Nicholson) wrote:
> Are there are any other '-er' words
> describing a person or device where you can't remove the -er (or the
> -r) to get the base verb? (I can think of one, engineer, but that's
> not pronounced as an '-er' word).
Burglar
--
Alec McKenzie
mcke...@despammed.com
Jerry Friedman
> Mark Brader <m...@vex.net> wrote:
>
> > > Dylan Nicholson filted:
>
> > >> we don't really have a verb to mean 'do what a messenger
> > >> does' (ie send a message). Are there are any other '-er' words
> > >> describing a person or device where you can't remove the -er (or the
> > >> -r) to get the base verb? (I can think of one, engineer, but that's
> > >> not pronounced as an '-er' word).
> > Teamster.
> >
> > And somewhat like "messenger" is "passenger", related to "passage".
...
> Plumber (I've heard the verb jocularly)
I've heard it seriously from at least one engineer.
...
> Some archaic ones like fletcher, cooper, chandler, webster, fuller.
In fact, all the -ster words. Also all the -monger words, by the way.
...
> There are surnames that I don't know if they were supposed to be
> occupations or what:
I suspect that if I knew what a Ross constraint was, I'd think that
sentence violated one.
> Parker
"Old French for "keeper of the park," PARKER is an English nickname
used for a man who was gamekeeper at a medieval park."
<http://genealogy.about.com/library/surnames/p/bl_name-PARKER.htm>.
> Foster
"1) Foster-child or foster-parent 2) a forester 3) shearer or scissors
maker (from Old French " forceter")"
<http://genealogy.about.com/library/surnames/f/bl_name-FOSTER.htm>
> Tucker
"A fuller [again], who cleaned and thickened freshly woven cloth."
<http://www.nameseekers.co.uk/surname.htm>
> Palmer
Already answered. "And palm to palm is holy palmer's kiss."
> Spencer
Spencer: A household servant.
<http://www.nameseekers.co.uk/surname.htm>
> Warner
...
"WARNER (British). "Warin army" (German).
WARNER (German). "A warner" (Germanic)."
<http://www.familychronicle.com/surname.htm>. Looks like the most
comprehensive of these sites, but I don't know what a Warin is.
--
Jerry Friedman
Donna Richoux
> tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote
> > There are surnames that I don't know if they were supposed to be
> > occupations or what:
>
> I suspect that if I knew what a Ross constraint was, I'd think that
> sentence violated one.
Since I don't know what a Ross constraint is either, I hardly feel
constrained by it. If you have any doubt about what I meant, I'll be
happy to rephrase it.
> <http://genealogy.about.com/library/surnames/p/bl_name-PARKER.htm>.
> <http://www.nameseekers.co.uk/surname.htm>
> <http://www.nameseekers.co.uk/surname.htm>
I worked through that first site a couple of hours ago, finding it very
slow. It crashed and I lost what I had saved. I'll bookmark the other
URLs and hope they work better.
>
> > Warner
> ...
>
> "WARNER (British). "Warin army" (German).
> WARNER (German). "A warner" (Germanic)."
>
> <http://www.familychronicle.com/surname.htm>. Looks like the most
> comprehensive of these sites, but I don't know what a Warin is.
The genealogy.about site had Warner under Werner. As I recall, they
explained it came from a German (or Germanic?) word for guard or
watchkeeper. I'm reluctant to plow through those pages again.
They also had Turner, a lathe-turner.
I'm glad you found Spencer. I have some in my family tree, so I was
curious. There are some very aristocratic Spencers/Spensers (Princess
Di, Winston Churchill) that go back to a Norman named Le Dispenserie or
something like that. Someone tried to connect my ancestors to that
family -- but to do so, they had to make a Spencer older than his
(supposed) mother. C'mon. Anyway, I figured there was going to be a
simpler explanation.
John Varela
> Someone tried to connect my ancestors to that
> family -- but to do so, they had to make a Spencer older than his
> (supposed) mother.
I wouldn't say a word that could be reckoned as injurious,
But to find a mother younger than her son is very curious,
And that's a kind of mother that is usually spurious.
--
John "Taradiddle, taradiddle, tol lol lay!" Varela
John Varela
wrote:
> In article <7d428a77.03121...@posting.google.com>,
> wizo...@hotmail.com (Dylan Nicholson) wrote:
>
> > Are there are any other '-er' words
> > describing a person or device where you can't remove the -er (or the
> > -r) to get the base verb? (I can think of one, engineer, but that's
> > not pronounced as an '-er' word).
>
> Burglar
Main Entry: burśgle
Pronunciation: 'b&r-g&l
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): burśgled; burśgling /-g(&-)li[ng]/
Etymology: back-formation from burglar
Date: 1870
Alec McKenzie
<ZKRm3c4Ddl7U-p...@dialup-171.75.33.216.Dial1.Washington1.Le
vel3.net>,
"John Varela" <OLDl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:26:34 UTC, Alec McKenzie <mcke...@despammed.com>
> wrote:
>
> > In article <7d428a77.03121...@posting.google.com>,
> > wizo...@hotmail.com (Dylan Nicholson) wrote:
> >
> > > Are there are any other '-er' words
> > > describing a person or device where you can't remove the -er (or the
> > > -r) to get the base verb? (I can think of one, engineer, but that's
> > > not pronounced as an '-er' word).
> >
> > Burglar
>
> Main Entry: burśgle
> Pronunciation: 'b&r-g&l
> Function: transitive verb
> Inflected Form(s): burśgled; burśgling /-g(&-)li[ng]/
> Etymology: back-formation from burglar
> Date: 1870
Precisely. It is a back-formation from the noun. So you can't "get to
the base verb" because there is no such thing. The verb is based on the
noun.
--
Alec McKenzie
mcke...@despammed.com
Ray Heindl
> tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote in message
> news:<1g5surm.lndjx81tce63yN%tr...@euronet.nl>...
>
>> Plumber (I've heard the verb jocularly)
>
> I've heard it seriously from at least one engineer.
When I designed and built equipment that included pipes, valves, and
the like I used the term all the time. I don't know of a convenient
substitute. The usage usually included either "in" or "up"; e.g.,
"We're going to plumb up the new vacuum system next week."
Don Aitken
wrote:
I think "plumb in" has been common for a long time in the UK. When we
went over from the kind of washing machine my parents had, which lived
in the corner and had to be rolled over to beside the sink and filled
with a hose from the tap, to the more modern kind, the new ones were
"plumbed in".
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being
read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".
Mark Brader
>>>> Are there are any other '-er' words describing a person or
>>>> device where you can't remove the -er (or the -r) to get
Alec McKenzie:
>>> Burglar
John Varela:
>> Main Entry: burśgle
...
>> Etymology: back-formation from burglar
Alec McKenzie:
> Precisely. It is a back-formation ... you can't "get to the
> base verb" because there is no such thing.
Well, then it would depend on whether one takes "base" to include
a syntactic base might have been created by back-formation, or the
etymological base.
I say "would depend" because "burglar" is irrelevant in any case. Dylan
asked about words ending in -er, remember?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Whatever you are, be out and out,
m...@vex.net | not divided or in doubt." -- Brand (Ibsen)
Dylan Nicholson
> R.H. Draney writes:
> > Dylan Nicholson filted:
>
> Filted?
>
> >> we don't really have a verb to mean 'do what a messenger
> >> does' (ie send a message). Are there are any other '-er' words
> >> describing a person or device where you can't remove the -er (or the
> >> -r) to get the base verb? (I can think of one, engineer, but that's
> >> not pronounced as an '-er' word).
>
> And somewhat like "messenger" is "passenger", related to "passage".
And indeed, seems some people have formed passenge as verb, especially
"passenging".
Certainly would seem to be a useful word!
Another interesting example is 'carpenter', as I actually though that
carpenting was a word, but apparently the "correct" form is
carpentering (and indeed 'carpenter' is supposed to be a valid verb in
its own right, can't say I've ever heard it used).
Dylan