Aspirated "h" in French

[HVS]

I was reminded the other day of a 1960s' coffee house in Ottawa and did
a bit of googling to confirm the spelling of the name, which appears to
have been "Le Hibou" ("The Owl").

That surprised me -- I'd always assumed it was "L'Hibou" (or perhaps
"l'Hibou" or "L'hibou") -- but searching on the two versions turns up
examples of both spellings on French websites.

Does this mean that the French spelling depends on whether the
speaker/writer aspirates the "h" of "hibou" -- that is, that both are
standard spellings, as is the case with "a historical" vs "an
historical" in English?

(I was always under the impression that "correct" French was more
standardised than that, and that one or the other form would thus be
discouraged.)

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30 yrs) and BrEng (36 yrs),
indiscriminately mixed

[Lanarcam]

THe correct spelling is "Le hibou". The 'h' is said to be
aspirated which does not mean that 'h' is aspirated in French but that
the liaison is not done. We say 'le hibou' and not 'libou'.

[HVS]

On 20 Jan 2020, Lanarcam wrote

Many thanks for clarifying it.

I found that a google search turns up a large number of occurances of
"l'hibou" -- but many of these appear to be holiday rental properties,
so I wonder if they've been named by non-French owners.

[Lanarcam]

Le 20/01/2020 à 18:55, HVS a écrit :
> On 20 Jan 2020, Lanarcam wrote
>

>> Le 20/01/2020 à 18:28, HVS a écrit :

>>> I was reminded the other day of a 1960s' coffee house in Ottawa
>>> and did a bit of googling to confirm the spelling of the name,
>>> which appears to have been "Le Hibou" ("The Owl").
>>>
>>> That surprised me -- I'd always assumed it was "L'Hibou" (or
>>> perhaps "l'Hibou" or "L'hibou") -- but searching on the two
>>> versions turns up examples of both spellings on French websites.
>>>
>>> Does this mean that the French spelling depends on whether the
>>> speaker/writer aspirates the "h" of "hibou" -- that is, that both
>>> are standard spellings, as is the case with "a historical" vs "an
>>> historical" in English?
>>>
>>> (I was always under the impression that "correct" French was more
>>> standardised than that, and that one or the other form would thus
>>> be discouraged.)
>
>> THe correct spelling is "Le hibou". The 'h' is said to be
>> aspirated which does not mean that 'h' is aspirated in French but
>> that the liaison is not done. We say 'le hibou' and not 'libou'.
>
> Many thanks for clarifying it.
>
> I found that a google search turns up a large number of occurances of
> "l'hibou" -- but many of these appear to be holiday rental properties,
> so I wonder if they've been named by non-French owners.
>

I have also found many occurences of l'hibou but I cannot explain
why. Languages evolve or deteriorate as you want...

[occam]

Should we blame it all on Canadian French?

[bebe...@aol.com]

No.

[Lanarcam]

Canadian French people are making a good job of preserving the
French language. It must not be easy when you are surrounded
by so many English speakers.

[bil...@shaw.ca]

I'm sure it's easier in Quebec, where six million francophones
form a large majority, there are strong laws protecting the
status of French, and there is an influx of immigrants from
French-speaking nations.

It's much harder here in British Columbia, where there is just
one town -- Maillardville -- known for French-speakers. Nevertheless,
I regular hear French spoken on the streets of Vancouver.

Re the "h", I have a Quebecois friend here in Vancouver who says
airline when he means hairline, and hairline when he means airline.

bill

[Lanarcam]

A tricky one for French speakers.

[Mark Brader]

William Boei:

> Re the "h", I have a Quebecois friend here in Vancouver who says
> airline when he means hairline, and hairline when he means airline.

Hmm. Do you know any Cockneys to introduce him to? :-)
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "The English future is very confusing!
m...@vex.net (This is not a political statement.)"

[Tony Cooper]

I wonder how the Canadian French speakers fare with "technical
support". When I call technical support for any device, the English
spoken at the other end is usually very difficult for me to follow.

Many of the companies that make the devices I call about have 800 or
some other toll-free number. I've never seen an option for French.
Maybe it's just the websites I bring up to find out what number to
call, but a lot of these products are the same products that would
sold in Canada.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Quinn C]

* Tony Cooper:

Usually, you'd have to go to the company's Canadian website, where
there'd be a French version of the site. Example:
<https://www.cuisinart.ca/customer-support-landing.html?lang=fr>

It's probably less the case than with English, but even in French,
support may be staffed by non-native speakers in places like India. I
remember a colleague being annoyed by an agent who asked him to repeat
what he said "in French" - that colleague speaks with a noticeable, but
not heavy Quebec accent.

--
The Eskimoes had fifty-two names for snow because it was
important to them, there ought to be as many for love.
-- Margaret Atwood, Surfacing (novel), p.106

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I was taught it like that 70 years ago, and "hibou" was specifically
mentioned as an example of a common word with aspirated h.


--
athel

[Mark Brader]

Tony Cooper:

> I wonder how the Canadian French speakers fare with "technical
> support". When I call technical support for any device, the English
> spoken at the other end is usually very difficult for me to follow.

But before that happens, usually the first thing you (i.e. we)
hear is "For service in English, press 1. Pour la service en
français, appuyez sur le 2."

I have no idea of what sort of French you hear if you press 2 --
but I'd guess your call would probably be answered in Quebec.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Asps. Very dangerous. You go first."
m...@vex.net -- Raiders of the Lost Ark

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

It was the only example that I thought at the time (living close to the
countryside) I thought I might need to know. In practice, especially in
the past 30 years, I find I need to say "Le Havre" more often than I
need to say "le hibou".


--
athel

[J. J. Lodder]

Quinn C <lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:

> * Tony Cooper:
>
> > On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 12:19:55 -0800 (PST), bil...@shaw.ca wrote:
> >
> >>Re the "h", I have a Quebecois friend here in Vancouver who says
> >>airline when he means hairline, and hairline when he means airline.
> >>
> > I wonder how the Canadian French speakers fare with "technical
> > support". When I call technical support for any device, the English
> > spoken at the other end is usually very difficult for me to follow.
> >
> > Many of the companies that make the devices I call about have 800 or
> > some other toll-free number. I've never seen an option for French.
> > Maybe it's just the websites I bring up to find out what number to
> > call, but a lot of these products are the same products that would
> > sold in Canada.
>
> Usually, you'd have to go to the company's Canadian website, where
> there'd be a French version of the site. Example:
> <https://www.cuisinart.ca/customer-support-landing.html?lang=fr>
>
> It's probably less the case than with English, but even in French,
> support may be staffed by non-native speakers in places like India. I
> remember a colleague being annoyed by an agent who asked him to repeat
> what he said "in French" - that colleague speaks with a noticeable, but
> not heavy Quebec accent.

The French have L'Afrique Francophone for cheap phone labour.
More convenient even, because in about the same time zone,

Jan

[Peter Moylan]

But possibly just as difficult for the clients. From what I've heard,
the "petit nègre" of Africa is just as difficult for French people to
understand as the Indian accents are for people in English-speaking
countries.

A couple of weeks ago I had to call the help line of a parcel courier
service, in an attempt to find a parcel that had gone astray. It was a
waste of time, because I understood nothing of the explanation. I have
often been tempted to ask to speak to someone who speaks English. But
perhaps, in a spirit of toleration, I should learn Hindi in order to be
able to communicate with the call centre people.

Those call centres are often criticised for employing people whose
English is hard to understand. But consider: those people get very low
wages. It's a wonder that they can employ anyone who is fluent in _any_
language.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Peter Moylan]

The main example I've needed to remember is in the poem

Un petit d'un petit
S'étonne aux Halles

A point that I meant to mention further up the thread is that a
transplanted language is in general more conservative than the parent
language. That suggests that Canadian French will conserve usages that
have since disappeared from French French. The aspiration rules date
from a time when the "h aspirée" really was aspirated, i.e. when "le
hibou" was pronounced like that because it contained the genuine [h]
that modern French has since abandoned. Those factors tell me that
Canadians will be more strict about the aspiration rules than people in
France. By this logic, any appearance of "l'hibou" should be found in
France, not in Canada.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 20-Jan-20 19:49, Lanarcam wrote:

> Canadian French people are making a good job of preserving the
> French language. It must not be easy when you are surrounded
> by so many English speakers.

Which reminded me that London is France's 6th largest city.


--
Sam Plusnet

[Quinn C]

* Mark Brader:

> Tony Cooper:
>> I wonder how the Canadian French speakers fare with "technical
>> support". When I call technical support for any device, the English
>> spoken at the other end is usually very difficult for me to follow.
>
> But before that happens, usually the first thing you (i.e. we)
> hear is "For service in English, press 1. Pour la service en
> français, appuyez sur le 2."

I guess they use caller number localization, but when calling from
Quebec, it's almost always 1 for French (or just not pressing
anything), 2 or 9 for English.

> I have no idea of what sort of French you hear if you press 2 --
> but I'd guess your call would probably be answered in Quebec.

There's an accumulation of call centres in Moncton, NB, but I guess
many of the French-speaking agents are from Quebec.

--
In the old days, the complaints about the passing of the
golden age were much more sophisticated.
-- James Hogg in alt.usage.english

[bil...@shaw.ca]

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 11:23:34 AM UTC-8, Quinn C wrote:
> * Mark Brader:
>
> > Tony Cooper:
> >> I wonder how the Canadian French speakers fare with "technical
> >> support". When I call technical support for any device, the English
> >> spoken at the other end is usually very difficult for me to follow.
> >
> > But before that happens, usually the first thing you (i.e. we)
> > hear is "For service in English, press 1. Pour la service en
> > français, appuyez sur le 2."
>
> I guess they use caller number localization, but when calling from
> Quebec, it's almost always 1 for French (or just not pressing
> anything), 2 or 9 for English.
>
> > I have no idea of what sort of French you hear if you press 2 --
> > but I'd guess your call would probably be answered in Quebec.
>
> There's an accumulation of call centres in Moncton, NB, but I guess
> many of the French-speaking agents are from Quebec.
>

Remember that New Brunswick has two official languages. About a third
of its population is francophone, and would be able to supply at least
some of the French-speaking agents for call centres.

bill

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

There are plenty of French speakers in Canada across the whole country
-- at least as far as Alberta; I'm not sure about British Columbia.
When I shared the driving from about 150 km north of Toronto to
Vancouver, I was surprised at how often the radio station would be in
French if one chose it at random. Along the north shore of Lake
Superior it was mostly French.

Nearly all the Francophone North Africans that I know are highly
educated, and their French doesn't differ noticeably (even in accent)
from that of educated French people. However, I suppose that the people
who get jobs in call centres are less educated.

We sometimes get unsolicited telephone calls in English, and then the
speakers have strong Indian accents. They usually want to talk about
problems they have detected with my Windows computer.


--
athel

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 20:03:08 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
[]

> We sometimes get unsolicited telephone calls in English, and then the
> speakers have strong Indian accents. They usually want to talk about
> problems they have detected with my Windows computer.
>

You too? How do they know? Ah; all people have trouble with Windows
Computers.


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[Richard Heathfield]

On 21/01/2020 20:03, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

<snip>

> We sometimes get unsolicited telephone calls in English, and then the
> speakers have strong Indian accents. They usually want to talk about
> problems they have detected with my Windows computer.

-----------------

I'm from BT OpenWorld... (No, you're not.)

...your Internet Service Provider. (No, it isn't.)

We have been receiving messages that your IP address has been
compromised. (No, you haven't.)

We need to run some checks on your computer. (No, you don't.)

Please follow these instructions. (No, I can't.)

----------------

I do *try*. I press Windows-R, like they tell me to, but I don't get a
little box appearing in which to type the right command for downloading
their malware.

They eventually give up on me, convinced that I'm not following their
instructions correctly.

But I am!

It's just that Linux does things a little differently, that's all.

I don't feel even a little bit guilty. Time wasted talking to me is time
not available for scamming some poor bugger who doesn't know any better.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2020-01-21 20:36:40 +0000, Richard Heathfield said:

> On 21/01/2020 20:03, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> We sometimes get unsolicited telephone calls in English, and then the
>> speakers have strong Indian accents. They usually want to talk about
>> problems they have detected with my Windows computer.
>
> -----------------
>
> I'm from BT OpenWorld... (No, you're not.)
>
> ...your Internet Service Provider. (No, it isn't.)
>
> We have been receiving messages that your IP address has been
> compromised. (No, you haven't.)
>
> We need to run some checks on your computer. (No, you don't.)
>
> Please follow these instructions. (No, I can't.)
>
> ----------------
>
> I do *try*. I press Windows-R, like they tell me to, but I don't get a
> little box appearing in which to type the right command for downloading
> their malware.
>
> They eventually give up on me, convinced that I'm not following their
> instructions correctly.
>
> But I am!
>
> It's just that Linux does things a little differently, that's all.
>
> I don't feel even a little bit guilty. Time wasted talking to me is
> time not available for scamming some poor bugger who doesn't know any
> better.

Well, I once read some advice that I should talk to them for at least
30 minutes before revealing that I haven't actually got a Windows
computer. I tried it once but didn't manage more than 5 minutes.

--
athel

[charles]

In article <r07ncq$gg9$1...@dont-email.me>,

Richard Heathfield <r...@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
> On 21/01/2020 20:03, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> <snip>

> > We sometimes get unsolicited telephone calls in English, and then the
> > speakers have strong Indian accents. They usually want to talk about
> > problems they have detected with my Windows computer.

> -----------------

> I'm from BT OpenWorld... (No, you're not.)

> ...your Internet Service Provider. (No, it isn't.)

> We have been receiving messages that your IP address has been
> compromised. (No, you haven't.)

> We need to run some checks on your computer. (No, you don't.)

> Please follow these instructions. (No, I can't.)

> ----------------

> I do *try*. I press Windows-R, like they tell me to, but I don't get a
> little box appearing in which to type the right command for downloading
> their malware.

> They eventually give up on me, convinced that I'm not following their
> instructions correctly.

> But I am!

> It's just that Linux does things a little differently, that's all.

> I don't feel even a little bit guilty. Time wasted talking to me is time
> not available for scamming some poor bugger who doesn't know any better.

I've only once kept one of them on the phone. He wanted to know what the
key to the right of the ctrl key was and I said a 2cog wheel" - like the
sytem icon on an iPad. That confused him a bit. Eventually his said "is it
a Windows machine?" I said "no" and he hung up. (actually a RISC OS machine)

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Peter Moylan]

Melbourne, Victoria, used to be the second largest Greek city in the
world. Perhaps it still is.

[Peter Moylan]

A friend of mine once managed to keep such a person on line for 15
minutes, before finally admitting that he didn't have a computer.

The ones who claim that my internet address has been compromised are
getting more desperate these days. Now they say that my internet access
will be cut off in one hour.

It's been a while since I last heard from the fellow who has photos of
me watching pornography. There must have been a downturn in the
filthy-picture market.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2020-01-22 01:22:27 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

>
> [ … ]

>
>
> It's been a while since I last heard from the fellow who has photos of
> me watching pornography. There must have been a downturn in the
> filthy-picture market.

You're lucky. I had one of them a couple of days ago. I may find I've
had more recent ones if I check my junk folder. One thing I have
noticed, though, is that the amount of money they want seems to be
decreasing. Thefirst one I had wanted about $2000. Now they seem
content with as little as $400.

--
athel

[J. J. Lodder]

Someone in the UK Mac forum did that.
After breaking off finally the guy called back to say:
"I am very angry with you!"
"You have wasted my time!",

Jan

[Peter Moylan]

On 2020-Jan-22 19:53, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

>> Well, I once read some advice that I should talk to them for at
>> least 30 minutes before revealing that I haven't actually got a
>> Windows computer. I tried it once but didn't manage more than 5
>> minutes.
>
> Someone in the UK Mac forum did that. After breaking off finally the
> guy called back to say: "I am very angry with you!" "You have wasted
> my time!",

Somewhere in this thread I mentioned a friend who doesn't have a
computer, and who managed to keep the call going for a long time. He got
the same angry response. To that he simply said "I didn't call you. You
called me."

[Richard Heathfield]

It's not as if I begrudge them the money. After all, they've done the
work, right? It's not easy to get malware onto a Linux box, and it's
even harder to get it to work - and as for controlling my Webcam
programmatically, heck, even *I* can't control my Webcam
programmatically, so fair play to them.

But should I pay them for their compromising footage? Well, it would
obviously depend on what they consider compromising.

If it were something that I wouldn't want getting out to the wider
public (maybe, say, my weekly bassoon lesson; or perhaps that ghastly
eviction battle with an arthritic bathroom spider, a battle that I lost
in what some might cruelly consider to be humiliating circumstances),
then obviously it might be worth something to me to pay them off to keep
it a secret.

But I can't for the life of me work out what's so compromising about the
underside of a Post-It note.

[Katy Jennison]

On 22/01/2020 10:10, Richard Heathfield wrote:

[snip the lacunae in the scammers' technique]

>
> But should I pay them for their compromising footage? Well, it would
> obviously depend on what they consider compromising.
>
> If it were something that I wouldn't want getting out to the wider
> public (maybe, say, my weekly bassoon lesson; or perhaps that ghastly
> eviction battle with an arthritic bathroom spider, a battle that I lost
> in what some might cruelly consider to be humiliating circumstances),
> then obviously it might be worth something to me to pay them off to keep
> it a secret.
>

Were you here in Mike Lyle's day? Given encouragement, he would have
enlarged on this epic encounter in grand style, bringing in unlikely
weapons and probably his earlier life at Something-or-other Anabaptist
College or whatever it was.

--
Katy Jennison

[Richard Heathfield]

Alas, no, I wasn't. But you make him sound most intriguing.

[Peter Moylan]

Mike is still around, by the way. I often encounter him on BookFace. I
have no idea why our most valued regulars defect to the Other Side, but
it is happening.

[Katy Jennison]

On 22/01/2020 10:57, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 22/01/2020 10:52, Katy Jennison wrote:
>> On 22/01/2020 10:10, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>
>> [snip the lacunae in the scammers' technique]
>>
>>>
>>> But should I pay them for their compromising footage? Well, it would
>>> obviously depend on what they consider compromising.
>>>
>>> If it were something that I wouldn't want getting out to the wider
>>> public (maybe, say, my weekly bassoon lesson; or perhaps that ghastly
>>> eviction battle with an arthritic bathroom spider, a battle that I
>>> lost in what some might cruelly consider to be humiliating
>>> circumstances), then obviously it might be worth something to me to
>>> pay them off to keep it a secret.
>>>
>>
>> Were you here in Mike Lyle's day?  Given encouragement, he would have
>> enlarged on this epic encounter in grand style, bringing in unlikely
>> weapons and probably his earlier life at Something-or-other Anabaptist
>> College or whatever it was.
>
> Alas, no, I wasn't. But you make him sound most intriguing.
>

Alas indeed. Here's one of his from June 2003. Those who were around
at the time and don't need reminding, look away now.

> How I treasure the memories of 'Possum Week at West 'Gin Anabaptist! I
> have little time now to list the undergraduate pranks and jollities,
> but a note on the Faculty's amusements my not come amiss. A quirk of
> the school charter admitted Fullbright scholars to the Senior
> Combination Room for this celebration, and as you can imagine I was
> not backward in coming forward.
>
> In an admittedly rather Disneyesque attempt to set up what the
> nineteeth-century Authorities imagined to be a proper Medieval
> Gaudeamus-igitur sort of atmosphere, it was traditional for each diner
> at High Table to be presented with his 'possum duly roasted and
> flambéd with red-eye and surrounded by candied yams, but reinvested
> with its skin. As the College wind band played selections from light
> opera, one divested the meat of its pelt, and placed the tail on a
> special side-plate, and the staff didn't clear it away on completion
> of the course.
>
> After dessert, all awaited with bated breath the signal from the
> President: which indication having been given, the game was to rush to
> the opposite end of the Great Hall, and hurl one's 'possum-tail into
> the rafters (the majestic roof-beams of the building had been imported
> from one of Ludwig II's more dilapidated schlosses just after the War
> Between The States). Whoever first got his tail to hang from the
> woodwork was by custom appointed President for the next day's formal
> meal. Not many people seem to realize that it was this competitive
> haste which gave rise to the now-commonplace expression "to high-tail
> it".

Other delightful effusions may be discovered by putting the search term
'anabaptist' into google groups' simulacrum of aue.

--
Katy Jennison

[Richard Heathfield]

On 22/01/2020 12:03, Katy Jennison wrote:
> On 22/01/2020 10:57, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 22/01/2020 10:52, Katy Jennison wrote:

<epic encounter snipped>

>>> Were you here in Mike Lyle's day?  Given encouragement, he would have
>>> enlarged on this epic encounter in grand style, bringing in unlikely
>>> weapons and probably his earlier life at Something-or-other
>>> Anabaptist College or whatever it was.
>>
>> Alas, no, I wasn't. But you make him sound most intriguing.
>
> Alas indeed.  Here's one of his from June 2003.  Those who were around
> at the time and don't need reminding, look away now.
>
>> How I treasure the memories of 'Possum Week at West 'Gin Anabaptist! I
>> have little time now to list the undergraduate pranks and jollities,
>> but a note on the Faculty's amusements my not come amiss. A quirk of
>> the school charter admitted Fullbright scholars to the Senior
>> Combination Room for this celebration, and as you can imagine I was
>> not backward in coming forward.

<snip>

Oh dear. That's really rather good (and I mean not just the quoted text
but also the stuff I snipped). I can see I'm going to have to up my game.

[Katy Jennison]

On 22/01/2020 12:12, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 22/01/2020 12:03, Katy Jennison wrote:
>> On 22/01/2020 10:57, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> On 22/01/2020 10:52, Katy Jennison wrote:
>
> <epic encounter snipped>
>
>>>> Were you here in Mike Lyle's day?  Given encouragement, he would
>>>> have enlarged on this epic encounter in grand style, bringing in
>>>> unlikely weapons and probably his earlier life at Something-or-other
>>>> Anabaptist College or whatever it was.
>>>
>>> Alas, no, I wasn't. But you make him sound most intriguing.
>>
>> Alas indeed.  Here's one of his from June 2003.  Those who were around
>> at the time and don't need reminding, look away now.
>>
>>> How I treasure the memories of 'Possum Week at West 'Gin Anabaptist! I
>>> have little time now to list the undergraduate pranks and jollities,
>>> but a note on the Faculty's amusements my not come amiss. A quirk of
>>> the school charter admitted Fullbright scholars to the Senior
>>> Combination Room for this celebration, and as you can imagine I was
>>> not backward in coming forward.
>
> <snip>
>
> Oh dear. That's really rather good (and I mean not just the quoted text
> but also the stuff I snipped). I can see I'm going to have to up my game.
>

Here's another, from October 01. (But I haven't yet turned up some of
his trophy-hunting experiences.)

> Oh, dear! I had hoped to preserve the benign conciliatoriness implied
> by the non-specificity of my punt statement, but this is too much.
>
> I'd have expected an engineer to be familiar with the 1969
> *Proceedings of the International Symposium on Quantology* -- held,
> quite by chance, in Oxford. I was unable to leave West Virginia
> Anabaptist that summer, but I flatter myself I may in a small way have
> contributed to the former Rhodes Scholar Sally Schirmletscher's
> incisive concluding paper. (Sally, by the way tragically no longer
> with us, actually came from South Bend, but it's not to be wondered at
> that she was known to her many friends as "The Wabash Cannonball".)
>
> It was established that the on-the-box pose was utterly inefficient
> for a number of reasons: firstly, for the transfer of maximum energy
> the operator's feet must be placed on what the layman might call a
> "grippy" surface, and to maintain balance throughout the propulsive
> stroke, one foot must be slightly higher than the other.
>
> In addition, the nearer the water level the feet are planted, the
> greater the efficiency, for obvious reasons.
>
> On the outward journey when the box is sited at the front the extra
> mass of the bottles of champagne it contains enhances manoeuvrability
> by exaggerating any steering forces. (I need hardly draw a
> parallelogram of forces in the present company.)
>
> On the other hand, on the return journey the extra buoyancy provided
> by the now empty box -- most of the mass of its contents having been
> transferred to the occupants -- offers what in nautical terms is known
> as "sea-kindliness", and by attacking the water at a higher angle
> improves propellability.
>
> These are but a few of the more striking points made in an enthralling
> and lucid document -- I recommend it highly, even to amateurs such as
> myself. Needless to say, I take responsibility for any errors in the
> above summary: the full *Proceedings* speak for themselves.

I've mentioned before my conviction that we could all do with channeling
Mike Lyle occasionally.

--
Katy Jennison

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2020-01-22 10:57:40 +0000, Richard Heathfield said:

> On 22/01/2020 10:52, Katy Jennison wrote:
>> On 22/01/2020 10:10, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>
>> [snip the lacunae in the scammers' technique]
>>
>>>
>>> But should I pay them for their compromising footage? Well, it would
>>> obviously depend on what they consider compromising.
>>>
>>> If it were something that I wouldn't want getting out to the wider
>>> public (maybe, say, my weekly bassoon lesson; or perhaps that ghastly
>>> eviction battle with an arthritic bathroom spider, a battle that I lost
>>> in what some might cruelly consider to be humiliating circumstances),
>>> then obviously it might be worth something to me to pay them off to
>>> keep it a secret.
>>>
>>
>> Were you here in Mike Lyle's day?  Given encouragement, he would have
>> enlarged on this epic encounter in grand style, bringing in unlikely
>> weapons and probably his earlier life at Something-or-other Anabaptist
>> College or whatever it was.
>
> Alas, no, I wasn't. But you make him sound most intriguing.

He was. He's one of the earlier posters I miss the most.


--
athel

[Quinn C]

* Peter Moylan:

> On 2020-Jan-22 06:02, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 20-Jan-20 19:49, Lanarcam wrote:
>>
>>> Canadian French people are making a good job of preserving the
>>> French language. It must not be easy when you are surrounded by so
>>> many English speakers.
>>
>> Which reminded me that London is France's 6th largest city.
>
> Melbourne, Victoria, used to be the second largest Greek city in the
> world. Perhaps it still is.

No, no match to its sister city Thessaloniki these days, but according
to Wikipedia data, playing in the same league as the three next-biggest
ones.

--
But I have nver chosen my human environment. I have always
borrowed it from someone like you or Monk or Doris.
-- Jane Rule, This Is Not For You, p.152

[CDB]

On 1/22/2020 7:26 AM, Katy Jennison wrote:
> Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> Katy Jennison wrote:

Laughing out loud: good for body and soul.

May I make a suggestion to anyone who channels Mike in future? Adding
the Googrou URL would allow the true aficionadx quick access to a
context which might even enhance the experience. (I find there are not
as many fresh peak experiences in AUE as there used to be.)

I see that this one was before my time: renewed thanks!

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.usage.english/International$20Symposium$20on$20Quantology/alt.usage.english/yCp7vg_XO_s/KX2CTpYOYbwJ

https://tinyurl.com/to9sv6f