Strange Bushism

[Paul Epstein]

Everyone knows the Bushism: "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"

One of the strange aspects of this is that, if you translate it to
grammatically correct English, it's very obviously false.

"Rarely is the question asked: Are our children learning?"
Really?? Surely every parent asks that and every educator of children
asks that. There's hardly a more obvious question.

It's like saying "Rarely does a restaurant customer ask: Will the food
taste good?"

What point was Bush trying to make?

Paul Epstein

[Mark Brader]

Paul Epstein:

> Everyone knows the Bushism: "Rarely is the question asked: Is our
> children learning?"
>
> One of the strange aspects of this is that, if you translate it to
> grammatically correct English, it's very obviously false.
>
> "Rarely is the question asked: Are our children learning?"
> Really?? Surely every parent asks that and every educator of children
> asks that. There's hardly a more obvious question.

It's the school's *job* to make sure they're learning. Why would
people need to ask? (No, don't answer that.)

> It's like saying "Rarely does a restaurant customer ask: Will the food
> taste good?"

Yes. It's a restaurant -- it's their *job* to make the food taste good.
Why would we need to ask? (Don't answer that either.)

> What point was Bush trying to make?

Apparently that people aren't as suspicious about the schools' competence
as you are.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Asps. Very dangerous. You go first."
m...@vex.net -- Raiders of the Lost Ark

[RH Draney]

On 4/6/2020 1:47 PM, Paul Epstein wrote:
> Everyone knows the Bushism: "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"
>
> One of the strange aspects of this is that, if you translate it to
> grammatically correct English, it's very obviously false.

And in its present form, obviously true, since virtually nobody asks the
grammatically incorrect question....r

[Paul Epstein]

I actually think the grammatical misstep plays to Bush's advantage.
If you correct the grammar to get "Rarely is the question asked: Are our children learning?" then you get an incredibly stupid (and false) point (in my opinion).

All the attention went to the grammatical slip-up so the inanity of what he
was saying went unnoticed.

Paul Epstein

All the

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2020-04-06 20:47:12 +0000, Paul Epstein said:

> Everyone knows

Speak for yourself.

--
athel

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 2:34:33 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2020-04-06 20:47:12 +0000, Paul Epstein said:

> > Everyone knows
>
> Speak for yourself.

+1

I daresay a hundred Bushisms are (or were) familiar to US audiences,
but this isn't one of them. This is a simple slip.

> > the Bushism: "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"

Bushisms are things like "It's hard to put food on your family," where
two expressions get jumbled together. He did that a lot.

> > One of the strange aspects of this is that, if you translate it to
> > grammatically correct English, it's very obviously false.
> >
> > "Rarely is the question asked: Are our children learning?"
> > Really?? Surely every parent asks that and every educator of children
> > asks that. There's hardly a more obvious question.
> >
> > It's like saying "Rarely does a restaurant customer ask: Will the food
> > taste good?"
> >
> > What point was Bush trying to make?

One would need to know what the rest of the speech (the "context") was,
and then the import would be obvious.

[Unknown]

Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 2:34:33 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden
> wrote:
> > On 2020-04-06 20:47:12 +0000, Paul Epstein said:
>
> > > Everyone knows
> >
> > Speak for yourself.
>
> +1

Me also neither.

>
> I daresay a hundred Bushisms are (or were) familiar to US audiences,

Which Bush? W or HW? And either feel like beacons of wisdom these
days...

DC

--

[Snidely]

Paul Epstein was thinking very hard :

FWIW, the question I hear most asked by parents is, "WHAT are our
children learning?!?"

Especially by parents who would be using a private school if they had
the fees.

/dps


--
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

[Snidely]

Django Cat submitted this idea :

> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 2:34:33 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden
>> wrote:
>>> On 2020-04-06 20:47:12 +0000, Paul Epstein said:
>>>> Everyone knows
>>>
>>> Speak for yourself.
>>
>> +1
>
> Me also neither.

Well it is a minor episode in the 9/11 narrative.

>> I daresay a hundred Bushisms are (or were) familiar to US audiences,
>
> Which Bush? W or HW? And either feel like beacons of wisdom these
> days...

heh

/dps "Pops was one of the better qualified choices,
even if you didn't like what /he/ chose"

--
Rule #0: Don't be on fire.
In case of fire, exit the building before tweeting about it.
(Sighting reported by Adam F)

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Well yes: compared with the present incumbent they both seem like wise
statesmen.

--
athel

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 6:03:08 PM UTC-4, nor...@googlegroups.com wrote:
> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 2:34:33 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden
> > wrote:
> > > On 2020-04-06 20:47:12 +0000, Paul Epstein said:

> > > > Everyone knows
> > > Speak for yourself.
> > +1

[at this point nor..., or DC, deleted a saying attributed to GWB
that is far from familiar]

> Me also neither.
>
> > I daresay a hundred Bushisms are (or were) familiar to US audiences,
>
> Which Bush? W or HW? And either feel like beacons of wisdom these
> days...

"Bushism" refers to the odd things that GWB would off-the-cuff utter.

GHWB was a diplomat with decades of experience in tact and public
speaking -- his only gaffe in that area was throwing up on the
Japanese Prime Minister at a State banquet in Tokyo.

His most unfortunate statements -- "Read my lips, no new taxes" and
"a thousand points of light" -- were the product of Peggy Noonan,
who is _still_ trotted out on *Meet the Press* on occasion to utter
right-of center platitudes (though she isn't nearly so bad as Trump
apologist Hugh Hewitt, who is seen more frequently these days).

[Peter T. Daniels]

The day after the 2016 election, the question went round: Who is the
happiest person in America? Answer: George W. Bush. He is no longer
the Worst President Ever. (Except that the author of a book by that
title, a biography of James Buchanan, in the preface made the case
that GWB was not worse than JB; writing early in 2017, he said the
jury was still out on DJT, but by now it may be clear that Buchanan
is no longer at the bottom of the heap.

(The other most likely candidate is Warren G. Harding; Chester A.
Arthur, who was probably the most corrupt vice president until and
beyond Spiro Agnew, apparently really was changed by the presidency,
unlike Trump, and wasn't a disaster.)

[Sam Plusnet]

As in "Well, that was some strange shit."



--
Sam Plusnet

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Did anyone imagine in, say, 2003 that we would be looking back on the
early years of the century as a Golden Age? No one apart from watchers
of trashy reality programmes had heard of Trump, no one outside London
had heard of Boris, no one had heard of Covid-19. Few people knew where
Wuhan was.


--
athel

[Peter Moylan]

On 09/04/20 06:47, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> Did anyone imagine in, say, 2003 that we would be looking back on the
> early years of the century as a Golden Age? No one apart from
> watchers of trashy reality programmes had heard of Trump, no one
> outside London had heard of Boris, no one had heard of Covid-19. Few
> people knew where Wuhan was.

Australia's recent bushfires wrecked a lot of tourist areas, so a lot of
people were putting out messages like "Take a vacation on the South
Coast, and help their economy to recover". Then, just as people were
preparing to do just that, the message changed to "Please stay away".
And the promised government aid never eventuated, and the charities are
hoarding many millions in donations rather than spending it. The poor
victims just can't win.

For me, the scariest part is that sitting governments tend to be
re-elected at times of national crisis. Exactly when we're stuck with
the most incompetent government in living memory.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Mark Brader]

Athel Cornish-Bowden:

> Did anyone imagine in, say, 2003 that we would be looking back on the
> early years of the century as a Golden Age? No one apart from watchers
> of trashy reality programmes had heard of Trump, no one outside London
> had heard of Boris, no one had heard of Covid-19. Few people knew where
> Wuhan was.

I'd rather go back 2-3 more years and not have heard of al-Qaeda either.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Suspicion breeds confidence."
m...@vex.net -- BRAZIL

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Well, so are the Americans.


--
athel

[J. J. Lodder]

You remind my of 'A Distant Mirror', and the calamitous 14th century,
when everything went wrong from the start.
Barbara Tuchman was of course also thinking of the 20th,
but it looks like the 21th is going to be no better.

We haven't even had an Edwardian,

Jan

[Unknown]

Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 6:03:08 PM UTC-4,
> nor...@googlegroups.com wrote:
> > Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 2:34:33 AM UTC-4, Athel
> > > Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > > > On 2020-04-06 20:47:12 +0000, Paul Epstein said:
>
> > > > > Everyone knows
> > > > Speak for yourself.
> > > +1
>
> [at this point nor..., or DC, deleted a saying attributed to GWB
> that is far from familiar]
>
> > Me also neither.
> >
> > > I daresay a hundred Bushisms are (or were) familiar to US
> > > audiences,
> >
> > Which Bush? W or HW? And either feel like beacons of wisdom these
> > days...
>
> "Bushism" refers to the odd things that GWB would off-the-cuff utter.
>
> GHWB was a diplomat with decades of experience in tact and public
> speaking -- his only gaffe in that area was throwing up on the
> Japanese Prime Minister at a State banquet in Tokyo.
>

Could happen to anyone...
DC


--

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2020-04-09 08:11:55 +0000, Django Cat said:

> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
>>

>> [ … ]

>>
>> GHWB was a diplomat with decades of experience in tact and public
>> speaking -- his only gaffe in that area was throwing up on the
>> Japanese Prime Minister at a State banquet in Tokyo.
>>
>
> Could happen to anyone...

Happened to me once (though not as badly). I was at a big meeting in
Prague about 15 years ago, and at the opening reception I suddenly
sneezed with my mouth full of wine over someone I didn't know.

--
athel

[Janet]

In article <r6m0jv$96p$1...@dont-email.me>, pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid
says...

> For me, the scariest part is that sitting governments tend to be
> re-elected at times of national crisis. Exactly when we're stuck with
> the most incompetent government in living memory.
>

Hey, it could be worse. Try being stuck without your most incompetent
leader...

Janet

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

It would be "difficult" to have heard of Covid-19 in 2003.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Right. That's why no one had heard of it.


--
athel

[Peter Moylan]

The Americans have this advantage: because of the multiple devolved
levels of government, the country can continue to function even with a
complete fuckwit as a president.

[HVS]

On 09 Apr 2020, Peter Moylan wrote

> On 09/04/20 18:05, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2020-04-09 02:17:34 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
>
>>> For me, the scariest part is that sitting governments tend to be
>>> re-elected at times of national crisis. Exactly when we're stuck
>>> with the most incompetent government in living memory.
>>
>> Well, so are the Americans.
>
> The Americans have this advantage: because of the multiple
> devolved levels of government, the country can continue to
> function even with a complete fuckwit as a president.

In 2010-2011 Belgium went without an elected government for [...pauses
to check...] 589 days without their world collapsing.

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30 yrs) and BrEng (36 yrs),
indiscriminately mixed

[J. J. Lodder]

You could have heard about ebola though.
Perceptive observers underdtood that world-wide pandemics
with a new virus were still quite possible,

Jan

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I think I probably heard about Ebola in the 1990s. Before 2003, anyway.

> Perceptive observers underdtood that world-wide pandemics
> with a new virus were still quite possible,

--
athel

[J. J. Lodder]

HVS <off...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:

> On 09 Apr 2020, Peter Moylan wrote
>
> > On 09/04/20 18:05, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >> On 2020-04-09 02:17:34 +0000, Peter Moylan said:
> >
> >>> For me, the scariest part is that sitting governments tend to be
> >>> re-elected at times of national crisis. Exactly when we're stuck
> >>> with the most incompetent government in living memory.
> >>
> >> Well, so are the Americans.
> >
> > The Americans have this advantage: because of the multiple
> > devolved levels of government, the country can continue to
> > function even with a complete fuckwit as a president.
>
> In 2010-2011 Belgium went without an elected government for [...pauses
> to check...] 589 days without their world collapsing.

Eh, that's federal governemt only,
which is mostly irrelevant anyway.
Both Flanders and Wallonia had a functioning government
all the time,

Jan

--
"Sire, vous régnez sur 2 peuples. Il y a en Belgique des Wallons et des
Flamands, il n'y a pas de Belges" (Jules Destrée, 1912)

[David Kleinecke]

One of my takes is that civilization jumped the shark in the year 2000.

Another is that a biography of Bill Clinton will be given the title
"The Man Who Presided over the Golden Age".

[RH Draney]

On 4/9/2020 7:49 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> The Americans have this advantage: because of the multiple devolved
> levels of government, the country can continue to function even with a
> complete fuckwit as a president.

FSVO "continue to function"....r

[Eric Walker]

On Thu, 09 Apr 2020 17:12:06 +0200, J. J. Lodder wrote:

[...]

> You could have heard about ebola though.
> Perceptive observers underdtood that world-wide pandemics with a new
> virus were still quite possible,

Re the risk from Ebola: some wag remarked that more Americans had married
Kim Kardashian than had died from Ebola.


--
Cordially,
Eric Walker

[Eric Walker]

On Thu, 09 Apr 2020 09:40:40 -0700, David Kleinecke wrote:

[...]

> One of my takes is that civilization jumped the shark in the year

> 2000....

Perhaps; but my feeling is that it began the run-up somewhere around
1960. That seems, for no particular reason I can identify, to be about
when the process that became known as "the dumbing-down of America" began.


--
Cordially,
Eric Walker

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I think I'd rather catch Ebola. (Well, maybe not.)

--
athel

[Mack A. Damia]

My estimate on that is the Reagan era - the era of conservatives. We
put a man on the moon in 1969. That wasn't exactly, "dumb". But it
depends on what areas of life you consider to be dumb. Surely,
America's international relations have been stupid since WW2, maybe
earlier. Technology hasn't been too dumb. Look what we are doing
this minute.

[Eric Walker]

My understanding of the rise and fall of civilizations is that there is
quite commonly a surprising (and misleading) surge of technological
progress in the end days. I believe Toynbee, for one, noted that.



--
Cordially,
Eric Walker

[Mack A. Damia]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 23:20:04 -0000 (UTC), Eric Walker

<em...@owlcroft.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 09 Apr 2020 14:52:51 -0700, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 20:53:32 -0000 (UTC), Eric Walker
>> <em...@owlcroft.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 09 Apr 2020 09:40:40 -0700, David Kleinecke wrote:
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>> One of my takes is that civilization jumped the shark in the year
>>>> 2000....
>>>
>>>Perhaps; but my feeling is that it began the run-up somewhere around
>>>1960. That seems, for no particular reason I can identify, to be about
>>>when the process that became known as "the dumbing-down of America"
>>>began.
>>
>> My estimate on that is the Reagan era - the era of conservatives. We
>> put a man on the moon in 1969. That wasn't exactly, "dumb". But it
>> depends on what areas of life you consider to be dumb. Surely,
>> America's international relations have been stupid since WW2, maybe
>> earlier. Technology hasn't been too dumb. Look what we are doing this
>> minute.
>
>My understanding of the rise and fall of civilizations is that there is
>quite commonly a surprising (and misleading) surge of technological
>progress in the end days. I believe Toynbee, for one, noted that.

How long are the "end days"?

We could say there was a surge in technology beginning in 1765 with
the invention of the spinning jenny and Watt's steam engine about the
same time.

How is it even measured?

[Mack A. Damia]

Moreover, what are the "end days"? Define it.

Some kind of life will remain on planet Earth for a very long time. I
think we will be destroyed from the without rather than the within if
and when the time comes.

[David Kleinecke]

Humans will exist on Earth for a long time into the future.

John W. Campbell ("Twilight" 1934) gave us seven million years - albeit
with much better technology than I would predict. At that time mankind
was dying out. This seems about right to me. Give us ten million years -
a brief moment in the billion year history of the Earth. But we sure are
doing a lot of damage. Oh well.

PS: Campbell guessed we would exterminate all competitive species of
life (and that we were dying mostly of ennui) but I suspect that did
not include all the little stuff like bacteria.

PPS: The life continues as bacteria theme has been used in other
stories and comes close to a cliche by now. But I would say the link
does not need to be made. In the worst case DNA will still exist and
it will do its thing again and ...

[Mack A. Damia]

As to drastically changing conditions on earth, some of us will evolve
in order to acclimate ourselves to the new conditions.

The end will come from extraterrestrial events - perhaps next week or
perhaps in millions of years. It will come when Earth cannot sustain
any kind of life any longer - or simply, planet Earth is destroyed.

[Eric Walker]

On Thu, 09 Apr 2020 17:02:07 -0700, Mack A. Damia wrote:

[...]

> How long are the "end days"?
>
> We could say there was a surge in technology beginning in 1765 with the
> invention of the spinning jenny and Watt's steam engine about the same
> time.
>
> How is it even measured?

You are asking me to recall in some detail a work I read decades ago, and
at that only in Somervell's two-volume abridgment.

My vague impression is that the period would be the last few generations
before the effective collapse, but I am not betting money on my memory.
Also, that period would probably be shortened in an age of higher
technology like ours.

I really should sit down and re-read those two volumes.

--
Cordially,
Eric Walker

[Mack A. Damia]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 01:33:33 -0000 (UTC), Eric Walker
<em...@owlcroft.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 09 Apr 2020 17:02:07 -0700, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> How long are the "end days"?
>>
>> We could say there was a surge in technology beginning in 1765 with the
>> invention of the spinning jenny and Watt's steam engine about the same
>> time.
>>
>> How is it even measured?
>
>You are asking me to recall in some detail a work I read decades ago, and
>at that only in Somervell's two-volume abridgment.

That was a rhetorical question, M8E. How do we measure "technology"?
Isn't it relative?

[Rich Ulrich]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 18:11:04 -0700 (PDT), David Kleinecke
<dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dinosaurs ruled the earth for (IIRC) about 190 million years.
But there were different species abounding at different
times. I remember some generalization, that the average
"lifespan" of a dinosaur species was thought to be about
10 million years.

The author seemed willing to generalize to other large-bodied
animals. Mammals, I think, were fitted to that. The branch
that we call hominids do not yet span that many years.

>
>PS: Campbell guessed we would exterminate all competitive species of
>life (and that we were dying mostly of ennui) but I suspect that did
>not include all the little stuff like bacteria.

That calls to mind the metaphor of humans as a cancer on
the planet.

>
>PPS: The life continues as bacteria theme has been used in other
>stories and comes close to a cliche by now. But I would say the link
>does not need to be made. In the worst case DNA will still exist and
>it will do its thing again and ...
>

--
Rich Ulrich

[Paul Wolff]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, at 19:08:25, Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com>

>On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 01:33:33 -0000 (UTC), Eric Walker

There's an extensive interview with an[other] author of a future-gazing
book, /The Precipice: Existential Risk and the Future of Humanity/, Toby
Ord, of Oxford’s Future of Humanity Institute (I didn't know they had
one).

<https://www.alumni.ox.ac.uk/quad/article/we%E2%80%99re-all-playing-russi
an-roulette>

He proposes back-of-the-envelope(?) odds of 1 in 6 against humanity's
surviving another hundred years - the odds in Russian Roulette. The link
may be worth reading, for those who like their gloom served richly.
--
Paul

[Peter Moylan]

On 10/04/20 01:12, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> You could have heard about ebola though. Perceptive observers
> underdtood that world-wide pandemics with a new virus were still
> quite possible,

The likelihood of a new pandemic depends on population density. I'm not
sure that people have yet accepted that the next pandemic is not far in
the future, and is likely to be worse than the current one.

[Peter Moylan]

On 10/04/20 11:11, David Kleinecke wrote:
> On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 5:10:27 PM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:

>> Some kind of life will remain on planet Earth for a very long time.
>> I think we will be destroyed from the without rather than the
>> within if and when the time comes.
>
> Humans will exist on Earth for a long time into the future.

But not necessarily as a sapient species. There is already evidence - in
election results, for example - that human intelligence is already
declining.

[Katy Jennison]

On 10/04/2020 14:32, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 10/04/20 01:12, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
>> You could have heard about ebola though. Perceptive observers
>> underdtood that world-wide pandemics with a new virus were still
>> quite possible,
>
> The likelihood of a new pandemic depends on population density.

And on ease and speed of travel.

I'm not
> sure that people have yet accepted that the next pandemic is not far in
> the future, and is likely to be worse than the current one.
>

I'm damn sure they haven't.

--
Katy Jennison

[musika]

On 10/04/2020 14:32, Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 10/04/20 01:12, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
>> You could have heard about ebola though. Perceptive observers
>> underdtood that world-wide pandemics with a new virus were still
>> quite possible,
>
> The likelihood of a new pandemic depends on population density. I'm
> not sure that people have yet accepted that the next pandemic is not
> far in the future, and is likely to be worse than the current one.
>

Indeed, I've always thought that the spread of the virus depends on how
dense the population is.

--
Ray
UK

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 13:32:26 GMT, Peter Moylan
<pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 10/04/20 01:12, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
>> You could have heard about ebola though. Perceptive observers
>> underdtood that world-wide pandemics with a new virus were still
>> quite possible,
>
> The likelihood of a new pandemic depends on population density. I'm not

and unsanitary conditions. Oh.

> sure that people have yet accepted that the next pandemic is not far in
> the future, and is likely to be worse than the current one.
>



--

Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[Mack A. Damia]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:58:55 +0100, musika <mUs...@NOSPAMexcite.com>
wrote:

They are dense.

Reference open-door mega-church services on Easter.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

A good idea if they're filled to bursting with Trump voters.

--
athel

[CDB]

On 4/9/2020 10:39 PM, Rich Ulrich wrote:
> David Kleinecke <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>> Mack A. Damia <drstee...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>>> Eric Walker <em...@owlcroft.com> wrote:
>>>>> Mack A. Damia wrote:

>>>>>> Eric Walker <em...@owlcroft.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> David Kleinecke wrote

>>>>>>> [...]

>>>>>>>> One of my takes is that civilization jumped the shark
>>>>>>>> in the year 2000....

>>>>>>> Perhaps; but my feeling is that it began the run-up
>>>>>>> somewhere around 1960. That seems, for no particular
>>>>>>> reason I can identify, to be about when the process that
>>>>>>> became known as "the dumbing-down of America" began.

Flaming youth and their enablers. I am embarrassed to think how smug we
were, and how condescending to our elders. They were right about many
things and we were wrong, as experience has now shown.

But who cares? Life at that level can be seen as a disease of matter
(that reminds me of another series of SF stories, maybe by Saberhagen).
In order to decide if something is good or bad, you need a conscious will.

What's important is the great present living world, the intricately
multifarious and loveable organism that we evolved in; and we are well
along in the process of destroying that. Look on our metastases and
despair.

> That calls to mind the metaphor of humans as a cancer on the planet.

In the context of the biosphere, we are exactly that: cells that have
become able to evade or disrupt the control mechanisms that would
otherwise have limited their growth, or even eliminated them.

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 10/04/20 01:12, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
> > You could have heard about ebola though. Perceptive observers
> > underdtood that world-wide pandemics with a new virus were still
> > quite possible,
>
> The likelihood of a new pandemic depends on population density. I'm not
> sure that people have yet accepted that the next pandemic is not far in
> the future, and is likely to be worse than the current one.

You should know from Australian history.
In the pre-747 era even Australia was too small
to support diseases like measles or rubella,
so they died out there.
Next a generation grew up that wasn't immune,
and on accidental reintroduction a new round started.

Australia was quite fanatic about quarantine regulations,
in order to put off the recurrence for as long as possible,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Sure, pandemics are a recent invention,
evolutionary speaking.
Stone age hunter-gatherer societies
lacked the population density to support them,

Jan

[musika]

I know - that's why I wrote it that way.


--
Ray
UK

[J. J. Lodder]

I did see a headline about:
Virginia pastor who declared the virus to be a hoax dies from it,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 10/04/20 11:11, David Kleinecke wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 5:10:27 PM UTC-7, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
> >> Some kind of life will remain on planet Earth for a very long time.
> >> I think we will be destroyed from the without rather than the
> >> within if and when the time comes.
> >
> > Humans will exist on Earth for a long time into the future.
>
> But not necessarily as a sapient species. There is already evidence - in
> election results, for example - that human intelligence is already
> declining.

Settling things in the best of English ways,
as in the English civil war for example,
wasn't a wonder of intelligence either,

Jan

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 9:11:07 PM UTC-4, David Kleinecke wrote:

> Humans will exist on Earth for a long time into the future.
>
> John W. Campbell ("Twilight" 1934) gave us seven million years - albeit
> with much better technology than I would predict. At that time mankind
> was dying out. This seems about right to me. Give us ten million years -
> a brief moment in the billion year history of the Earth. But we sure are
> doing a lot of damage. Oh well.
>
> PS: Campbell guessed we would exterminate all competitive species of
> life (and that we were dying mostly of ennui) but I suspect that did
> not include all the little stuff like bacteria.

Asimov had no qualms about or shame in acknowledging that Campbell had
given him some of his best story ideas.

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 19:43:33 +0200, J. J. Lodder wrote:

[...]

>> But not necessarily as a sapient species. There is already evidence -
>> in election results, for example - that human intelligence is already

>> declining....

Was it not Truman Capote who remarked that for every year you live on the
west coast, you lose two points off your IQ?


--
Cordially,
Eric Walker

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

He wan't make that mistake again!

Actually, it seems that he didn't say it was a hoax.

Pastor Spradlin was one of those who became ill, but tested negative
for Covid-19. [1] Even as he was sick, he posted on social media
about "hysteria" surrounding the virus.

On the 13th of March Pastor Spradlin shared on Facebook a misleading
post comparing swine flu and coronavirus deaths.

It suggested that Barack Obama and Donald Trump respectively had
been treated very differently by the media and that it was a
politically motivated ploy to harm President Trump.

Earlier the very same day, the president himself had insinuated
something very similar at a news conference.
....

Pastor Spradlin's son, Landon Isaac, 32, told me that he and his
father had talked and agreed about what they felt was an irrational
frenzy and fear mongering about the virus, perhaps because it was an
election year.

"I want to say outright though, dad didn't think it was a hoax, he
knew it was a real virus," says Landon Isaac.

"But he did put up that post because he was frustrated that the
media was propagating fear as the main mode of communication," he
told me.

[1] Later:

he tested positive for the coronavirus.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Oops! I omitted the link:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52157824

[J. J. Lodder]

Peter Duncanson [BrE] <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 18:55:30 +0200, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> Lodder) wrote:
>
> >Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2020-04-10 15:44:13 +0000, Mack A. Damia said:
> >>
> >> > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:58:55 +0100, musika <mUs...@NOSPAMexcite.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 10/04/2020 14:32, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> >>> On 10/04/20 01:12, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> You could have heard about ebola though. Perceptive observers
> >> >>>> underdtood that world-wide pandemics with a new virus were still
> >> >>>> quite possible,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The likelihood of a new pandemic depends on population density. I'm
> >> >>> not sure that people have yet accepted that the next pandemic is not
> >> >>> far in the future, and is likely to be worse than the current one.
> >> >>>
> >> >> Indeed, I've always thought that the spread of the virus depends on how
> >> >> dense the population is.
> >> >
> >> > They are dense.
> >> >
> >> > Reference open-door mega-church services on Easter.
> >>
> >> A good idea if they're filled to bursting with Trump voters.
> >
> >I did see a headline about:
> >Virginia pastor who declared the virus to be a hoax dies from it,
> >
> >Jan
>
> He wan't make that mistake again!

That's one thing we can be sure off!

> Actually, it seems that he didn't say it was a hoax.

[snip - Smoothing of the story by followers, after the facts]

Nevertheless, it is an established fact
that denialism on the part of fanatical religionists of various kinds
has helped the virus to spread,

Jan

[Snidely]

Remember when Athel Cornish-Bowden bragged outrageously? That was
Thursday:
> On 2020-04-09 08:11:55 +0000, Django Cat said:
>
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> [ … ]
>>>
>>> GHWB was a diplomat with decades of experience in tact and public
>>> speaking -- his only gaffe in that area was throwing up on the
>>> Japanese Prime Minister at a State banquet in Tokyo.
>>>
>>
>> Could happen to anyone...
>
> Happened to me once (though not as badly). I was at a big meeting in Prague
> about 15 years ago, and at the opening reception I suddenly sneezed with my
> mouth full of wine over someone I didn't know.

I was in the second grade, it was after lunch, and they didn't let me
at the wine.

Actually, I think I missed everybody, but did get the desktop.

/dps

--
"That's a good sort of hectic, innit?"

" Very much so, and I'd recommend the haggis wontons."
-njm