Fearless Leader

[David Kleinecke]

Just now PTD posted on sci.lang:

If you're too stupid to read what you make stupid comments
about, then shut your shithole mouth (as our Fearless Leader
would say).

Fearless Leader is not a compliment. But it pre-dates
Donald Trump. Where did it start? What dictator did it
originally mock?

[Mack A. Damia]

It might be from the Rocky and Bullwinkle Show.

Yes. Fearless Leader is the dictator of the fictional country
Pottsylvania, and the employer of the inept government agents Boris
Badenov and Natasha Fatale. He could always be found in his
underground hideout, "Central Control."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fearless_Leader

[Jerry Friedman]

Well, it seems to have started in Scott's /Guy Mannering/ (1815).

"Edward of York—-I will not malign even an enemy—is a bold and fearless
leader..."

The first mocking use I see appears to be from 1950-2.

"Our fearless leader, Barry, was not with the party, for he was busy
in camp consuming his fourteenth trout for breakfast (the day's limit).
But soon we could see him prancing along at his 'arsenic-and-old-lace'
pace, that is, arsenic in the pants."

https://books.google.com/books?id=-xRVAAAAMAAJ&q=%22fearless+leader%22&dq=%22fearless+leader%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTkLHajtPYAhVCKWMKHf5FBj8Q6AEIPjAE

(which actually shows different snippets about "our fearless leader,
Barry" from the same article in /Trail and Timberline/.)

--
Jerry Friedman

[RH Draney]

On 1/12/2018 12:10 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 11:00:06 AM UTC-7, David Kleinecke wrote:
>>
>> Fearless Leader is not a compliment. But it pre-dates
>> Donald Trump. Where did it start? What dictator did it
>> originally mock?
>
> Well, it seems to have started in Scott's /Guy Mannering/ (1815).
>
> "Edward of York—-I will not malign even an enemy—is a bold and fearless
> leader..."
>
> The first mocking use I see appears to be from 1950-2.
>
> "Our fearless leader, Barry, was not with the party, for he was busy
> in camp consuming his fourteenth trout for breakfast (the day's limit).
> But soon we could see him prancing along at his 'arsenic-and-old-lace'
> pace, that is, arsenic in the pants."

When I was working on our Regional Gathering Committee (as the tech
person, the one who helps invited presenters hook up to projectors and
whatever other audio-visual stuff they ask for), I took to calling the
committee chairman "fearsome leader"...(he was not offended; the guy ran
around the Gathering wearing a badge identifying him as
"Krampus-in-Training")....r

[Peter T. Daniels]

The unnamed one to whom Boris Badenov and Natasha owed allegiance.

(As I mentioned in the wake of her death last summer, June Foray, who voiced
Natasha, said she had been instructed to _not_ make her specifically Russian
but to use a generalized "Eastern European" accent.)

North Korea has devised similar epithets for its three Leaders, but not yet
exactly that one.

[Peter Moylan]

Wasn't it originally Peerless Leader?

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Adam Funk]

On 2018-01-12, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 1:00:06 PM UTC-5, David Kleinecke wrote:
>> Just now PTD posted on sci.lang:
>>
>> If you're too stupid to read what you make stupid comments
>> about, then shut your shithole mouth (as our Fearless Leader
>> would say).
>>
>> Fearless Leader is not a compliment. But it pre-dates
>> Donald Trump. Where did it start? What dictator did it
>> originally mock?
>
> The unnamed one to whom Boris Badenov and Natasha owed allegiance.

Beeg trouble for moose and sqvirrel!

> (As I mentioned in the wake of her death last summer, June Foray, who voiced
> Natasha, said she had been instructed to _not_ make her specifically Russian
> but to use a generalized "Eastern European" accent.)

Interesting, although I'm not sure how many of the audience would spot
the difference.


--
The human brain, weighing about three pounds, has the computing
power of nearly one billion laptops. The brain has been credited
with notable accomplishments such as the Magna Carta, Special
Relativity, and Hee Haw. [Science Museum of Virginia]

[Adam Funk]

On 2018-01-12, RH Draney wrote:

> When I was working on our Regional Gathering Committee (as the tech
> person, the one who helps invited presenters hook up to projectors and
> whatever other audio-visual stuff they ask for), I took to calling the
> committee chairman "fearsome leader"...(he was not offended; the guy ran
> around the Gathering wearing a badge identifying him as
> "Krampus-in-Training")....r

Do you only get the horns when you pass the training?


--
A heretic is someone who shares ALMOST all your beliefs.
Kill him. --- Ivan Stang

[Colonel Edmund J. Burke]

Thanks for commenting, limey prick.

[Joy Beeson]

On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:48:51 +0000, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

> > (As I mentioned in the wake of her death last summer, June Foray, who voiced
> > Natasha, said she had been instructed to _not_ make her specifically Russian
> > but to use a generalized "Eastern European" accent.)
>
> Interesting, although I'm not sure how many of the audience would spot
> the difference.

Even those who did would find that subtle clue completely overwhelmed
by the name "Boris Badinov".

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net

[Wayne Brown]

I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."

--
F. Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net>

ur sag9-ga ur-tur-še3 ba-an-kur9
"A dog that is played with turns into a puppy." (Sumerian proverb)

[Madrigal Gurneyhalt]

On Thursday, 18 January 2018 21:55:38 UTC, Wayne Brown wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 17:50:34 in article <e6nv5d1o3pchclcpu...@4ax.com> Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> > On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:48:51 +0000, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> > (As I mentioned in the wake of her death last summer, June Foray, who voiced
> >> > Natasha, said she had been instructed to _not_ make her specifically Russian
> >> > but to use a generalized "Eastern European" accent.)
> >>
> >> Interesting, although I'm not sure how many of the audience would spot
> >> the difference.
> >
> > Even those who did would find that subtle clue completely overwhelmed
> > by the name "Boris Badinov".
>
> I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
> both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
> and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."
>

Why? It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
confirmed.

[Mark Brader]

Barry Etheridge:

> It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
> confirmed.

I would have thought the Wikipedia part alone took the whole 5 seconds.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "People say I'm a skeptic --
m...@vex.net but I find that hard to believe."

[Wayne Brown]

Well, I don't automatically take every idle speculation, opinion,
theory and conjecture that I formed decades ago and look them up
on Wikipedia to confirm them, unless there's something important
depending on them. And then I usually look for confirmation from
a more reliable source than Wikipedia. (Wikipedia undoubtedly does
play a part in forming some of the NEW idle speculations, opinions,
theories and conjectures that I'll be holding for the next two or
three decades, if I live that long.)

[Adam Funk]

I was aware of the Godunov pun, which is in Wikipedia, but where does
it mention _War and Peace_?

Badenov's name is a pun on that of the 16th-century Russian Tsar
Boris Godunov ("bad enough" vs. "good enough"). His accent and
explosive temper are an homage to Hollywood actor Akim Tamiroff,
especially Tamiroff's role in The Great McGinty, a 1940 movie
directed by Preston Sturges.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Badenov>


--
Consistently separating words by spaces became a general custom about
the tenth century A. D., and lasted until about 1957, when FORTRAN
abandoned the practice. --- Sun FORTRAN Reference Manual

[J. J. Lodder]

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2018-01-26, Wayne Brown wrote:
>

> > On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 Madrigal Gurneyhalt <purpl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> On Thursday, 18 January 2018 21:55:38 UTC, Wayne Brown wrote:
>
> >>> I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
> >>> both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
> >>> and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."
> >>>
> >>
> >> Why? It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
> >> confirmed.
> >
> > Well, I don't automatically take every idle speculation, opinion,
> > theory and conjecture that I formed decades ago and look them up
> > on Wikipedia to confirm them, unless there's something important
> > depending on them. And then I usually look for confirmation from
> > a more reliable source than Wikipedia. (Wikipedia undoubtedly does
> > play a part in forming some of the NEW idle speculations, opinions,
> > theories and conjectures that I'll be holding for the next two or
> > three decades, if I live that long.)
>
> I was aware of the Godunov pun, which is in Wikipedia, but where does
> it mention _War and Peace_?
>
> Badenov's name is a pun on that of the 16th-century Russian Tsar
> Boris Godunov ("bad enough" vs. "good enough"). His accent and
> explosive temper are an homage to Hollywood actor Akim Tamiroff,
> especially Tamiroff's role in The Great McGinty, a 1940 movie
> directed by Preston Sturges.
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Badenov>

Taken up again by by Goscinny with his Grand Vizier Iznogoud.

Jan

--
"I want to be Caliph instead of the Caliph"

[Madrigal Gurneyhalt]

On Friday, 26 January 2018 20:45:08 UTC, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2018-01-26, Wayne Brown wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 16:07:42 in article <9a6eec16-6f4a-4034...@googlegroups.com> Madrigal Gurneyhalt <purpl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> On Thursday, 18 January 2018 21:55:38 UTC, Wayne Brown wrote:
>
> >>> I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
> >>> both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
> >>> and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."
> >>>
> >>
> >> Why? It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
> >> confirmed.
> >
> > Well, I don't automatically take every idle speculation, opinion,
> > theory and conjecture that I formed decades ago and look them up
> > on Wikipedia to confirm them, unless there's something important
> > depending on them. And then I usually look for confirmation from
> > a more reliable source than Wikipedia. (Wikipedia undoubtedly does
> > play a part in forming some of the NEW idle speculations, opinions,
> > theories and conjectures that I'll be holding for the next two or
> > three decades, if I live that long.)
>
> I was aware of the Godunov pun, which is in Wikipedia, but where does
> it mention _War and Peace_?

It doesn't! He was right about Boris, wrong about Natasha.
>

[Adam Funk]

I haven't read _War and Peace_ [1], but if those characters' names are
correct, it's certainly plausible that the R&BS's creators were
influenced by them. Some true things are not covered in Wikipedia.

[1] Car Talk fans might recall from the closing credits, "Our official
Tolstoy biographer is Warren Peace, author of _Leo Tolstoy_ by
Warren Peace."


--
Unix is a user-friendly operating system. It's just very choosy about
its friends.

[J. J. Lodder]

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2018-01-26, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
>
> > On Friday, 26 January 2018 20:45:08 UTC, Adam Funk wrote:
> >> On 2018-01-26, Wayne Brown wrote:
> >>

> >> > On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 16:07:42 in article <9a6eec16-6f4a-4034-ae7e-3126a853
8b...@googlegroups.com> Madrigal Gurneyhalt <purpl...@googlemail.com>

wrote:
> >> >> On Thursday, 18 January 2018 21:55:38 UTC, Wayne Brown wrote:
> >>
> >> >>> I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
> >> >>> both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
> >> >>> and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> Why? It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
> >> >> confirmed.
> >> >
> >> > Well, I don't automatically take every idle speculation, opinion,
> >> > theory and conjecture that I formed decades ago and look them up
> >> > on Wikipedia to confirm them, unless there's something important
> >> > depending on them. And then I usually look for confirmation from
> >> > a more reliable source than Wikipedia. (Wikipedia undoubtedly does
> >> > play a part in forming some of the NEW idle speculations, opinions,
> >> > theories and conjectures that I'll be holding for the next two or
> >> > three decades, if I live that long.)
> >>
> >> I was aware of the Godunov pun, which is in Wikipedia, but where does
> >> it mention _War and Peace_?
> >
> > It doesn't! He was right about Boris, wrong about Natasha.
>
> I haven't read _War and Peace_ [1], but if those characters' names are
> correct, it's certainly plausible that the R&BS's creators were
> influenced by them. Some true things are not covered in Wikipedia.

All those are covered in the Wikipedia article
on all things that are not in Wikipedia,

Jan

[Madrigal Gurneyhalt]

Except that this one is. The creators intention was always to have a
femme fatale gag. Natasha was simply a very common Russian name.
Hence Natasha Fatale. Whilst the Boris Godunov comparison is
reasonably accessible, being the eponymous title of various works
including an opera, a play and a novel, to 'get' a play on Natasha you
would have to have read or at least be familiar with War and Peace,
and conclude that Natasha in that work is a femme fatale (which she
really isn't). On the basis of simplest explanation is sufficient, if nothing
else, I am confident in my original assessment.

[Colonel Edmund J. Burke]

On 1/12/2018 10:00 AM, David Kleinecke wrote:

I am the furst one to call him that, limey prick.

[RH Draney]

On 1/27/2018 2:31 AM, Adam Funk wrote:
>
> [1] Car Talk fans might recall from the closing credits, "Our official
> Tolstoy biographer is Warren Peace, author of _Leo Tolstoy_ by
> Warren Peace."

Disney fans may also recall that in the movie "Sky High", about a group
of high-school-aged budding superheroes, the dark brooding classmate
who's the son of the protagonist's father's arch-nemesis is also named
Warren Peace....r

[Adam Funk]

On 2018-01-27, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:

> On Saturday, 27 January 2018 09:45:08 UTC, Adam Funk wrote:

>> I haven't read _War and Peace_ [1], but if those characters' names are
>> correct, it's certainly plausible that the R&BS's creators were
>> influenced by them. Some true things are not covered in Wikipedia.
>>
>
> Except that this one is.

Is what, true or in Wikipedia?

> The creators intention was always to have a
> femme fatale gag. Natasha was simply a very common Russian name.
> Hence Natasha Fatale. Whilst the Boris Godunov comparison is
> reasonably accessible, being the eponymous title of various works
> including an opera, a play and a novel, to 'get' a play on Natasha you
> would have to have read or at least be familiar with War and Peace,
> and conclude that Natasha in that work is a femme fatale (which she
> really isn't). On the basis of simplest explanation is sufficient, if nothing
> else, I am confident in my original assessment.
>

--
There's no money in poetry, but there's no poetry in
money either. --- Robert Graves

[Adam Funk]

Hidden inside a Chinese encyclopedia.


--
A book lying idle on a shelf is wasted ammunition.
--- Henry Miller

[Adam Funk]

I haven't seen that one, but I would've noticed that.


--
I only regret that I have but one shirt to give for my country.
--- Abbie Hoffman

[RH Draney]

On 1/29/2018 2:55 AM, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2018-01-27, RH Draney wrote:
>
>> On 1/27/2018 2:31 AM, Adam Funk wrote:
>>>
>>> [1] Car Talk fans might recall from the closing credits, "Our official
>>> Tolstoy biographer is Warren Peace, author of _Leo Tolstoy_ by
>>> Warren Peace."
>>
>> Disney fans may also recall that in the movie "Sky High", about a group
>> of high-school-aged budding superheroes, the dark brooding classmate
>> who's the son of the protagonist's father's arch-nemesis is also named
>> Warren Peace....r
>
> I haven't seen that one, but I would've noticed that.

Do check it out...one gag that always cracks me up occurs when the
"sidekick" students are studying, and one of them reads an exercise that
beautifully parodies the "if a train leaves Chicago traveling at 50 mph"
type of word-problem....r

[Peter Moylan]

On 29/01/18 20:55, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2018-01-27, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, 27 January 2018 09:45:08 UTC, Adam Funk wrote:
>
>>> I haven't read _War and Peace_ [1], but if those characters' names are
>>> correct, it's certainly plausible that the R&BS's creators were
>>> influenced by them. Some true things are not covered in Wikipedia.
>>>
>>
>> Except that this one is.
>
> Is what, true or in Wikipedia?

Is than an exclusive OR?