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Keeping stum?

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Guy Barry

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Aug 25, 2012, 5:23:12 AM8/25/12
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Heard on the radio: "keeping stum", with "stum" pronounced like "stun" apart
from the final consonant. I'm not sure of the correct spelling, but I've
always heard "keeping schtoom" (presumably a Yiddish expression). Your
spelling and pronunciation please?

--
Guy Barry

Paul {Hamilton Rooney}

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Aug 25, 2012, 5:26:49 AM8/25/12
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Shtum, pronounced with a northern English u.

Don Phillipson

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Aug 25, 2012, 7:33:44 AM8/25/12
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"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0Q0_r.128246$Yw.3...@fx20.am4...
German stumm (adj.) = English dumb or silent. The word may
have entered British English via Yiddish but is pronounced just
the same in all three languages: so it might rank as slang or
thieves' cant in English but is an orthodox or everyday word
in German.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)



Whiskers

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Aug 25, 2012, 11:05:43 AM8/25/12
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"Shtum", with a Lancashire long u - I first encountered the word in
Salford, where I expect it had arrived with Yiddish speakers in the
19th century.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

Guy Barry

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Aug 25, 2012, 11:17:29 AM8/25/12
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"Whiskers" wrote in message
news:slrnk3hqfb.g...@ID-107770.user.individual.net...

> "Shtum", with a Lancashire long u - I first encountered the word in
> Salford, where I expect it had arrived with Yiddish speakers in the
> 19th century.

There doesn't appear to be much consensus about the spelling, if this
article is anything to go by:

http://phonetic-blog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/keeping-schtum.html

Everyone seems to agree, though, that the pronunciation is /StUm/ (i.e.
"shtoom" with the vowel of "good"), identical to the German "stumm". This
is why I was surprised to hear the pronunciation /stVm/ (like "stun"), as
though the speaker had read the word "stumm" but never heard it.

Interesting that, according to the article, it's not used in AmE. Is this
correct? I always assume that Yiddish borrowings normally come via the US.
(The meaning is "keeping silent", usually about something that might get you
into trouble.)

--
Guy Barry

Don Phillipson

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Aug 25, 2012, 12:15:09 PM8/25/12
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"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a06_r.32870$xH3....@fx02.am4...

> . . . I always assume that Yiddish borrowings normally come via the US.

Recordings of Peter Sellers on BBC Radio 1950-70 offer a sample
of common Yiddish words in Londoners' English, e.g. shtoom,
schmutter, schnorrer etc. There was a Yiddish-speaking community
in Stepney (east central London) for about 200 years. A difference
is that American English adopted lots of Yiddish from S.J. Perelman's
popular articles in the New Yorker from the 1930s onwards: no
British author made the Yiddish speech so attractive and amusing.

Pierre Jelenc

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Aug 25, 2012, 1:04:15 PM8/25/12
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In article <a06_r.32870$xH3....@fx02.am4>,
Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Interesting that, according to the article, it's not used in AmE. Is this
>correct?

That's true. It is barely known, mostly through British novels or TV
shows, but it's not used at all, even here in NYC.

Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org
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