Re: The first personal computer (PC)
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Stefan Ram <r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>Newsgroups: alt.usage.english,alt.folklore.computers
>
> JFTR:
>
> Who coined »personal computer«?
>
> What I found so far is:
>
> »the October 4, 1968, issue of Science (...) contains a
> Hewlett-Packard advertisement: "The new Hewlett-Packard
> 9100A personal computer"«
>
>http://www.gxut.edu.cn/jpkc/dxyy/word/A3shiti/05-06-1xinshyeB.doc
>
> And I found:
>
>http://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/a-hp9100a1st.jpg
>
> You can find the phrase »personal computer« in this ad!
>
> It predates the IBM 5100 or the Pet 2001 by years, by about
> a decade!
>
> Do you know any earlier use of that term?
>
> On the web, many pages instead give much later dates for the
> coinage, such as 1973 or 1975.
>
I would expect it to appear in science-fiction stories well before that
(though I have no proof of such).
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Quadibloc
> I would expect it to appear in science-fiction stories well before that
> (though I have no proof of such).
One thing I do know, though, is that at the time the first pocket
calculators came out, and the microcomputer revolution began, it was
discussed how science fiction had almost completely missed envisioning
that revolution.
A Star Trek communicator might look like a cell phone, and those
colored square chips look a bit like the Sony MiniDisc in terms of
size and capacity.
But in general, the common themes in this area in science fiction
were...
The big, enormous future computer. Isaac Asimov's Multivac was one
example, but there were many of those in science fiction - inspired by
real computers, of course. The curved lines of the IBM SSEC seem to
have inspired some artists who illustrated science fiction, for that
matter.
Robots. Their capabilities, of course, implied that the much lesser
capabilities of a computer should be able to fit in a small package -
but ordinary computing was seen as perhaps too dull to mention.
One Isaac Asimov novel, The Currents of Space, even took time to
mention how spaceships were piloted with the help of a much improved
and efficiently-designed form of slide rule.
On the other hand, Isaac Asimov - since I've mentioned him twice
already, and, of course, he's very famous for dealing with the theme
of the paragraph in which I didn't mention him - did come close to
predicting the pocket calculator - with his story "A Feeling of
Power", where, due to pocket calculators, people had forgotten how to
do arithmetic by hand. However, the pocket calculators in that story
had forced people into using some kind of modified binary notation for
numbers.
The idea that someone might own a machine on which, say, an ephemeris
of the planets for a year might be computed in seconds, and so on,
seemed just too mundane.
I do remember reading one exception. A short story set in a future
world where various devices, such as telephone answering machines and
typewriters were quite ordinary if left on their own... but if you
connected your tape recorder to your typewriter, suddenly you could
speak into the microphone, and the typewriter would type what you said
to it.
One eccentric refused to take advantage of this convenience, and so he
was able to rescue humanity when the connected gadgets went ahead to
take over the world.
John Savard
R H Draney
>
>On the other hand, Isaac Asimov - since I've mentioned him twice
>already, and, of course, he's very famous for dealing with the theme
>of the paragraph in which I didn't mention him - did come close to
>predicting the pocket calculator - with his story "A Feeling of
>Power", where, due to pocket calculators, people had forgotten how to
>do arithmetic by hand. However, the pocket calculators in that story
>had forced people into using some kind of modified binary notation for
>numbers.
I know the story well, and I don't remember anything like that last bit...what
Asimov used to brag on in connection with it was that he even predicted the
detail that the digits appeared in red....
In high school our English teacher thought it would be useful in some way to
have each of us come up with our own way of carrying out the calculation in the
story, the multiplication of seventeen by twenty-three...Asimov's character used
the same method we'd all learned in elementary school, and most of my classmates
handed in something similar, sometimes writing one number vertically and the
other horizontally or some similar difference in form but not substance...my
suggestion, which she asked me to demonstrate for the class, was as follows:
1 7
x 2 3
----- add each column straight down
1 9 3
Now read the result from right to left...at this point I tossed the chalk to
someone in the front row and walked back to my desk without so much as looking
back...the room was a chorus of audible gasps....
Several of my classmates approached me after the bell rang to ask why we had to
use such difficult procedures when it could be done that simply....
(I later graduated to demonstrating how easy it is to reduce the fraction 26/65
to simplest terms by merely "canceling the sixes")....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Mark Brader
> On the other hand, Isaac Asimov ... did come close to
> predicting the pocket calculator - with his story "A Feeling of
> Power", where, due to pocket calculators, people had forgotten how to
> do arithmetic by hand.
Yes. However, as we noted in alt.usage.english in 2000, although
the devices in the story never show any capability beyond that of
a calculator, the word used in the story for them is "computer".
Incidentally, they apparently have electromechnical displays, perhaps
like modern cash registers of the era when the story was written.
"He pushed the multiplication contact on his computer and let the
numbers whirl to a halt."
> However, the pocket calculators in that story had forced people into
> using some kind of modified binary notation for numbers.
I don't think so.
> The idea that someone might own a machine on which, say, an ephemeris
> of the planets for a year might be computed in seconds, and so on,
> seemed just too mundane.
On the other hand, when Arthur C. Clarke was working on "2001: A Space
Odyssey", he made the observation that the publicity department at MGM
was apparently equipped with typewriters where the pressing of a single
key would produce the words "Never before, in the history of motion
pictures," -- an idea which was, at the time, was pure science fiction.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto, m...@vex.net
We can design a system that's proof against accident and stupidity;
but we CAN'T design one that's proof against deliberate malice.
--a spaceship designer in Arthur C. Clarke's "2001: A Space Odyssey"
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Michael Wojcik
> Newsgroups: alt.usage.english,alt.folklore.computers
>
> JFTR:
>
> Who coined �personal computer�?
>
> What I found so far is:
>
> �the October 4, 1968, issue of Science (...) contains a
> Hewlett-Packard advertisement: "The new Hewlett-Packard
> 9100A personal computer"�
>
> http://www.gxut.edu.cn/jpkc/dxyy/word/A3shiti/05-06-1xinshyeB.doc
>
> And I found:
>
> http://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/a-hp9100a1st.jpg
>
> You can find the phrase �personal computer� in this ad!
>
> It predates the IBM 5100 or the Pet 2001 by years, by about
> a decade!
>
> Do you know any earlier use of that term?
I did a little Google N-Gram searching, and found what appears to be a
1966 use.[1] It's in Andries van Dam, "Computer Displays in Man /
Machine Interaction", _Advances in Computers_, v 7, ed Franz Alt: "The
current popularity of 'public utility' time sharing, and the
resurgence of the small personal computer with algebraic compiler, are
therefore both easily explained."
Of course, Google Books is notorious for inaccurate metadata, so it'd
be best to confirm this from an authoritive source (like an actual
copy of the book) before citing it.
There may well be earlier uses in Google Books. The N-Gram searcher
and GBooks are both fairly clumsy and produce lots of false positives,
and I didn't want to spend a lot of time poking into this.
[1]
http://books.google.com/books?id=72LOwpzU2XgC&pg=PA279&dq=%22personal+computer%22&hl=en&ei=KahSTdnsEsSx8QOrysyjCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CFUQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=%22personal%20computer%22&f=false
or
http://preview.tinyurl.com/4ot6jrr
--
Michael Wojcik
Micro Focus
Rhetoric & Writing, Michigan State University
Michael Wojcik
> On Feb 8, 8:18 pm, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
>
>> I would expect it to appear in science-fiction stories well before that
>> (though I have no proof of such).
>
> One thing I do know, though, is that at the time the first pocket
> calculators came out, and the microcomputer revolution began, it was
> discussed how science fiction had almost completely missed envisioning
> that revolution.
The "Tom Swift Jr" series of syndicate children's novels featured
Tom's "Little Idiot" pocket calculator / computer. Tom invented the
Little Idiot in the first book, _Tom Swift Jr and his Flying Lab_,
which came out in 1954. (If anyone is wondering, the Flying Lab was a
mobile laboratory, not an airborne dog.) That's a full decade before
Sony produced the first all-transistor desktop calculator.
I don't recall what all the LI was supposed to have been capable of,
but I think there were at least implications that it did
four-operation arithmetic and also had some sort of more advanced
features, like equation solving.
The Stratemeyer Syndicate books may have been pulps, but the authors
of the TSJ series did put a lot of effort into thinking about
supporting inventions - the little (highly implausible) things Tom
would invent in each volume to assist him in the major projects.
Joe Pfeiffer
with one point:
Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>
> The big, enormous future computer. Isaac Asimov's Multivac was one
> example, but there were many of those in science fiction - inspired by
> real computers, of course. The curved lines of the IBM SSEC seem to
> have inspired some artists who illustrated science fiction, for that
> matter.
Went back and checked some photos of it -- some of its components had
the same rounded edges as pretty much all the office furniture of its
time. All the panels and such were as rectilinear as you could hope
for. It looks like there were some steps leading up to it that were
curved; again, not much different from any other modern office building
of the time.
--
This sig block for rent
Joe Pfeiffer
>
> In high school our English teacher thought it would be useful in some way to
> have each of us come up with our own way of carrying out the calculation in the
> story, the multiplication of seventeen by twenty-three...Asimov's character used
> the same method we'd all learned in elementary school, and most of my classmates
> handed in something similar, sometimes writing one number vertically and the
> other horizontally or some similar difference in form but not substance...my
> suggestion, which she asked me to demonstrate for the class, was as follows:
>
> 1 7
> x 2 3
> ----- add each column straight down
> 1 9 3
>
> Now read the result from right to left...at this point I tossed the chalk to
> someone in the front row and walked back to my desk without so much as looking
> back...the room was a chorus of audible gasps....
>
> Several of my classmates approached me after the bell rang to ask why we had to
> use such difficult procedures when it could be done that simply....
>
> (I later graduated to demonstrating how easy it is to reduce the fraction 26/65
> to simplest terms by merely "canceling the sixes")....r
You're evil. :)
Joe Pfeiffer
> Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Feb 8, 8:18 pm, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
>>
>>> I would expect it to appear in science-fiction stories well before that
>>> (though I have no proof of such).
>>
>> One thing I do know, though, is that at the time the first pocket
>> calculators came out, and the microcomputer revolution began, it was
>> discussed how science fiction had almost completely missed envisioning
>> that revolution.
>
> The "Tom Swift Jr" series of syndicate children's novels featured
> Tom's "Little Idiot" pocket calculator / computer. Tom invented the
> Little Idiot in the first book, _Tom Swift Jr and his Flying Lab_,
> which came out in 1954. (If anyone is wondering, the Flying Lab was a
> mobile laboratory, not an airborne dog.) That's a full decade before
> Sony produced the first all-transistor desktop calculator.
I have great affection for the TSJ series -- Tom was one of my heroes
growing up. Since then, I've read a lot of the original Tom Swift books
as well, and they're also fun.
I have no recollection of the LI, which is sort of funny since I grew up
to be a computer scientist. Guess I've got an old book to track down
and reread!
> I don't recall what all the LI was supposed to have been capable of,
> but I think there were at least implications that it did
> four-operation arithmetic and also had some sort of more advanced
> features, like equation solving.
>
> The Stratemeyer Syndicate books may have been pulps, but the authors
> of the TSJ series did put a lot of effort into thinking about
> supporting inventions - the little (highly implausible) things Tom
> would invent in each volume to assist him in the major projects.
Stratemeyer was also responsible for Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew, which
were also really good kids' series.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I don't recall LI either, and I'm sure I read TSJ&HFL at least 20 times
as a kid. The name, in fact, sounds completely at odds with the
ethos of the series
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>In message <8rg2ia...@mid.individual.net>
>It seemed to me the hardy Boys were always being idiots and somehow
>getting out of it through dumb luck. Nancy Drew was clever and her jams
>were not caused by her foolishness. I also always imagined she was
>extremely cute! :)
>
>There was another series I read about some boys who had a detective
>agency and their headquarters was a mobile home that was buried under a
>huge mound of trash in a junkyard owned by one of the boy's parents.
>
That was "The Three Investigators" sometimes known as "Alfred Hitchcock
and The Three Investigators" though AH appeared only once or twice.
Default User
"Quadibloc" <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:500e0245-09f6-42cc...@m13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 8, 8:18 pm, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
> I would expect it to appear in science-fiction stories well before that
> (though I have no proof of such).
One thing I do know, though, is that at the time the first pocket
calculators came out, and the microcomputer revolution began, it was
discussed how science fiction had almost completely missed envisioning
that revolution.
A Star Trek communicator might look like a cell phone, and those
colored square chips look a bit like the Sony MiniDisc in terms of
size and capacity.
But in general, the common themes in this area in science fiction
were...
The big, enormous future computer. Isaac Asimov's Multivac was one
example, but there were many of those in science fiction - inspired by
real computers, of course.
-------------- reply --------------------
One story that did have elements much more like the current situation is the
Murray Leinster tale, "A Logic Named Joe".
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Logic_Named_Joe>
Brian
--
Day 734 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
Current music playing: None.
David Hatunen
> Stefan Ram wrote:
>> Newsgroups: alt.usage.english,alt.folklore.computers
>>
>> JFTR:
>>
>> Who coined »personal computer«?
>>
>> What I found so far is:
>>
>> »the October 4, 1968, issue of Science (...) contains a
>> Hewlett-Packard advertisement: "The new Hewlett-Packard 9100A
>> personal computer"«
>>
>> http://www.gxut.edu.cn/jpkc/dxyy/word/A3shiti/05-06-1xinshyeB.doc
>>
>> And I found:
>>
>> http://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/a-hp9100a1st.jpg
>>
>> You can find the phrase »personal computer« in this ad!
>>
>> It predates the IBM 5100 or the Pet 2001 by years, by about a decade!
>>
>> Do you know any earlier use of that term?
>
> I did a little Google N-Gram searching, and found what appears to be a
> 1966 use.[1] It's in Andries van Dam, "Computer Displays in Man /
> Machine Interaction", _Advances in Computers_, v 7, ed Franz Alt: "The
> current popularity of 'public utility' time sharing, and the resurgence
> of the small personal computer with algebraic compiler, are therefore
> both easily explained."
"Public utility time sharing" sounds like work stations. ".. small
personal computer with algebraic compiler .." sounds like an early small
electronic calculator. In 1967 where I worked had a desktop-sized
electronic calculator a stencil-type grid for onscreen number generation
and reverse polish notation, with the stack shown on the screen. At the
time I thought it was pretty marvelous even if it was the size of a
standard typewriter.
--
Dave Hatunen, Tucson, Arizona, out where the cacti grow
Joe Thompson
> »the October 4, 1968, issue of Science (...) contains a
> Hewlett-Packard advertisement: "The new Hewlett-Packard
> 9100A personal computer"«
>
> http://www.gxut.edu.cn/jpkc/dxyy/word/A3shiti/05-06-1xinshyeB.doc
>
> And I found:
>
> http://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/a-hp9100a1st.jpg
>
> You can find the phrase »personal computer« in this ad!
>
> It predates the IBM 5100 or the Pet 2001 by years, by about
> a decade!
But note that it appears the 9100A is a "computer" in the sense of "a
thing that computes" (derived from the earlier usage referring to people
who computed things like ballistics tables). It wasn't a computer in
the same sense as the IBM 5100. Today it would be referred to as a
scientific calculator. -- Joe
--
Joe Thompson | Sysadmin - Social Irritant - Political Dilettante
E-mail addresses in headers are valid. | http://www.orion-com.com/
"It is hard to imagine the Ayatollah Elmo." -- http://bit.ly/icLRjB
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> On the other hand, when Arthur C. Clarke was working on "2001: A Space
> Odyssey", he made the observation that the publicity department at MGM
> was apparently equipped with typewriters where the pressing of a single
> key would produce the words "Never before, in the history of motion
> pictures," -- an idea which was, at the time, was pure science fiction.
When did that take place?
I think this sort of thing was desired and envisioned a very long time
ago, but it was basically waiting for the cost the technology to come
down enough to outweigh the cost of a typist's time. For a great many
years typists were cheap and technology was not. Through the late
1960s it was common for organizations to have batteries of typists
retyping draft after draft of documents. When the authors "cut 'n
pasted" they did it for real and the typists made new drafts
reflecting the changes.
Even back in WW II some people were using punch cards and tab machines
as a crude word processor to maintain and print out things like
telephone directories.
Teletypewriters had a "Here is" key than when pressed automatically
sent out a string of characters, usually the machine's number but it
could be anything. The key could be triggered remotely by a WRU
character.
I recall seeing an ad for a add-on to a Model 33 Teletype. On the
right panel was a series of buttons than when pressed put out a string
of characters. In a sense of multiple of Here Is keys.
I'm not sure when the IBM MagCard Selectric came out, an early word
processor, but it could store phrases and print them upon request.
The Friden Flexowriters had tape readers which could do some of this,
and later the machines could be attached to a processor that was
programmable.
Long ago I added macros to my MS Word vers 6.0 that generated common
phrases I used in correspondance.
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> But in general, the common themes in this area in science fiction
> were...
>
> The big, enormous future computer. Isaac Asimov's Multivac was one
> example, but there were many of those in science fiction - inspired by
> real computers, of course. The curved lines of the IBM SSEC seem to
> have inspired some artists who illustrated science fiction, for that
> matter.
For many years the computer future was foreseen as giant computers
serving as a "computer utility", accessed by terminals people would
have at home and work. The giant size would create economies of scale
which would make the access cost low enough to be affordable.
IBM introduced a personal computer, the 610, in the late 1950s. It
didn't catch on.
Peter Flass
>
> I have great affection for the TSJ series -- Tom was one of my heroes
> growing up. Since then, I've read a lot of the original Tom Swift books
> as well, and they're also fun.
>
> I have no recollection of the LI, which is sort of funny since I grew up
> to be a computer scientist. Guess I've got an old book to track down
> and reread!
Ditto for both, except I never read any of the original series. My
father remembered them fondly, however. I had a big collection until a
few years ago. I think I kept one.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
I think that would have to be classified as a "deskside" computer:
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV4001.html
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Dave Garland
> I'm not sure when the IBM MagCard Selectric came out, an early word
> processor, but it could store phrases and print them upon request.
The MagTape Selectric came out in 1964. The MagCard in 1969. I saw
my first MTST in 1968 in a hospital transcription pool, where they
were guarded by grouchy old ladies who would break your fingers if you
touched their typewriter. But they didn't store "phrases" in any
particularly useful way, they stored entire documents (pages, in the
case of the MC/ST). I never used the MT/ST but I used the MC/ST a
lot. The big benefit wasn't so much cut-and-paste (which they could
only by shuffling cards) but that they would rewrap lines, so when you
made a correction, the following line breaks got automatically fixed.
And, of course, since you could save the changes, doing another draft
only meant playing the text until you got to an edit, hit "stop" and
do the correction, and then "play" again.
Dave
R H Draney
I never claimed otherwise...and this being a language group, I'll throw in a
free lesson in conjugating Italian verbs:
"ami" (you love) + "amo" (I love) = "amiamo" (we love)
Joe Pfeiffer
> In message <8rg5cc...@mid.individual.net>
> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> -------------- quote --------------------
>> "Quadibloc" <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in message
>> news:500e0245-09f6-42cc...@m13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 8, 8:18 pm, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
>
>>> I would expect it to appear in science-fiction stories well before that
>>> (though I have no proof of such).
>
>> One thing I do know, though, is that at the time the first pocket
>> calculators came out, and the microcomputer revolution began, it was
>> discussed how science fiction had almost completely missed envisioning
>> that revolution.
>
> The future (well, our present) turned out to be almost nothing like any
> sci-fi writer envisioned, and no one predicted that anything remotely
> like the iPhone would be possible.
>
> I still remember reading stories where some space pilot was using his
> slide rule to input the flight plan into the navigation system.
>
> The only thing even remotely like an iPhone I can recall from sci-fi was
> the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, and it couldn't make phone calls or
> play games or you know, do anything other than read the book.
A Kindle! But with only one book on it.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Steve Hayes
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>The only thing even remotely like an iPhone I can recall from sci-fi was
>the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, and it couldn't make phone calls or
>play games or you know, do anything other than read the book.
There was a book by James Follett, who used to take part in aue, where the
characters used what they called "click phones", which seemed to be something
between satellite phones and cell phones. At the date it was published,
however, there were already mobile phones in cars, and so it didn't take much
foresight to predict the development.
Follett, James. 1990. Torus. London: Methuen.
ISBN: 0-413-62860-4
A satellite is damaged by an unknown weapon,
and Harry Dysan, investigator for the US
National Security Agency, is asked to
investigate. He calls in the help of Lesa
Wessex, an interpreter of satellite mapping
data, who was a refugee from Vietnam, and is
pursuing a quest of vengeance of her own.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Mark Brader
>> On the other hand, when Arthur C. Clarke was working on "2001: A Space
>> Odyssey", he made the observation that the publicity department at MGM
>> was apparently equipped with typewriters where the pressing of a single
>> key would produce the words "Never before, in the history of motion
>> pictures," -- an idea which was, at the time, was pure science fiction.
"Hancock":
> When did that take place?
Well, the movie was released in 1968. I don't know exactly when he made
the quip.
--
Mark Brader "The spaghetti is put there by the designer of
Toronto the code, not the designer of the language."
m...@vex.net -- Richard Minner
Peter Flass
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 21:35:57 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
>> The only thing even remotely like an iPhone I can recall from sci-fi was
>> the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, and it couldn't make phone calls or
>> play games or you know, do anything other than read the book.
>
> There was a book by James Follett, who used to take part in aue, where the
> characters used what they called "click phones", which seemed to be something
> between satellite phones and cell phones. At the date it was published,
> however, there were already mobile phones in cars, and so it didn't take much
> foresight to predict the development.
>
> Follett, James. 1990. Torus. London: Methuen.
> ISBN: 0-413-62860-4
> A satellite is damaged by an unknown weapon,
> and Harry Dysan, investigator for the US
> National Security Agency, is asked to
> investigate. He calls in the help of Lesa
> Wessex, an interpreter of satellite mapping
> data, who was a refugee from Vietnam, and is
> pursuing a quest of vengeance of her own.
>
>
Wessex - a good old Vietnamese name. Was she a relative of the Da Nang
Wessexes, by any chance? ;-)
jmfbahciv
>> "Quadibloc" <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in message
>> news:500e0245-09f6-42cc...@m13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 8, 8:18 pm, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
>
>>> I would expect it to appear in science-fiction stories well before that
>>> (though I have no proof of such).
>
>> One thing I do know, though, is that at the time the first pocket
>> calculators came out, and the microcomputer revolution began, it was
>> discussed how science fiction had almost completely missed envisioning
>> that revolution.
>
> sci-fi writer envisioned, and no one predicted that anything remotely
> like the iPhone would be possible.
Dick Tracy had his phone in his wrist watch.
<snip>
/BAH
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:
Illya Kuryakin and Napoleon Solo had their phones (or were they
radios ?) in fountain pens.
Maxwell Smart kept his in his shoe.
Matt Dodson had a phone in his pouch in Space Cadet (R.A. Heinlein
1948) as did characters in several of his later stories. I like this bit
from "Lost Legacy":
-------
"How come," he asked as he came abreast, "they had to search for you?"
"Left my pocketphone in my other suit," Coburn returned briefly. "Did it on
purpose - I wanted a little peace and quiet. No luck."
-------
Not a bad prediction for 1953.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Roland Hutchinson
My high school had a couple of those in the same time frame. It was kind
of nifty to have had hands-on experience with maniuplating a stack in
real life before formally studying about stacks in automata theory.
Those machines were owned by the Science department. Not to be outdone,
the Math department in due course (ca. 1970) acquired an spiffy new-model
HP machine that was similar in form factor--but programmable (basically
the desktop precursor of the HP hand-held programmable calculator line).
It lived in the room adjacent to the by-then-aged Monrobot XI.
--
Roland Hutchinson
He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
Michael Wojcik
> In article <1blj1pr...@snowball.wb.pfeifferfamily.net>,
> Joe Pfeiffer <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>> Michael Wojcik <mwo...@newsguy.com> writes:
>>> The "Tom Swift Jr" series of syndicate children's novels featured
>>> Tom's "Little Idiot" pocket calculator / computer. Tom invented the
>>> Little Idiot in the first book, _Tom Swift Jr and his Flying Lab_,
>>> which came out in 1954.
>>
>> to be a computer scientist. Guess I've got an old book to track down
>> and reread!
>>
> as a kid. The name, in fact, sounds completely at odds with the
> ethos of the series
I don't know where my copy of HFL has gone to, but here's a brief
mention in _Tom Swift in the Race to the Moon_. (This is actually a
Tom Swift Jr book, despite the title; by this point in the series I
think they had dropped "Jr" from the titles.)
Bud grinned. "We'd better work this out on one
of Tom's Little Idiots."
These amazing miniature computers were the
smallest and most compact ever built. The oper-
ator simply "talked" his problem into a micro-
phone, and the computer then reeled off the
answer on tape. (38)
So it appears that the LI was one of those fanciful "speech
recognition but not speech generation" computers of popular culture,
like Batman's Bat-Computer in the 1960s TV series.
I also ran across this neat bit in TSJitRTM, where they're discussing
a "portable electronic brain" Tom has devised. (It has the handy
function of translating messages from their space-alien friends from
"mathematical symbols" to English. If I may cross a.f.c threads for a
moment, I'll note that it apparently prints in uppercase only.)
[Bud asks] "How'd you ever manage
to make a portable model and get all the equip-
ment in?"
Mr. Swift answered the question. "Tom figured
out an ingenious type of storage system. Literally,
there are a thousand pieces of wire to the square
inch." (14)
Ha! Integrated circuitry in 1958. Take that, Intel.
--
Michael Wojcik
Micro Focus
Rhetoric & Writing, Michigan State University
Michael Wojcik
>
> I read a few of the Hardy Boys books and a lot of the Nancy Drew books.
> It seemed to me the hardy Boys were always being idiots and somehow
> getting out of it through dumb luck.
Mostly they were distinguished by their unfailing ability to get
kidnapped at least once per mystery. Though often it was only one of
the boys (usually dark-haired, impetuous Joe), and sometimes it was
one of their chums (chubby Chet, quiet Biff, token ethnic Tony) who
was nabbed in their stead.
> Nancy Drew was clever and her jams
> were not caused by her foolishness.
Yes, the ND plots tended to be a bit more sophisticated than the HBs.
Mildred Wirt, who wrote most of them, wanted female characters who
could stand on their own. After the first fifteen or so, though,
Harriet Adams (one of Edward Stratemeyer's daughters), who inherited
the syndicate after Stratemeyer died, started to pressure her to make
Nancy more ladylike: less bold, "sweeter", etc.
And the ND books were hugely successful - they typically had sales
about twice of the HBs. Unfortunately Stratemeyer died two weeks after
the first one was released and never saw how popular they were.
> I also always imagined she was extremely cute! :)
No need to imagine it - we're told by the narrator that she's very
attractive. Though I always had a thing for her friend George, the
girl who didn't get asked to dance because the boys were afraid of
her. (I'm not so sure George was all that keen on boys anyway.)
But the best thing about syndicate books was that they got kids
reading. It's not a big step from _The Mystery of the Tolling Bell_ to
_Wuthering Heights_.
Michael Wojcik
> On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 09:51:30 -0500, Michael Wojcik wrote:
>
>> I did a little Google N-Gram searching, and found what appears to be a
>> 1966 use.[1] It's in Andries van Dam, "Computer Displays in Man /
>> Machine Interaction", _Advances in Computers_, v 7, ed Franz Alt: "The
>> current popularity of 'public utility' time sharing, and the resurgence
>> of the small personal computer with algebraic compiler, are therefore
>> both easily explained."
>
> "Public utility time sharing" sounds like work stations.
Centralized computing of some sort, certainly. It's clearly not a
reference to personal computers.
> ".. small
> personal computer with algebraic compiler .." sounds like an early small
> electronic calculator.
You think so? In a 1966 industry piece? I'd think "algebraic compiler"
would more likely imply something like ALGOL, and so an actual
general-purpose programmable machine.
Of course it now looks like (see elsethread) we have something close
to, if not verbatim, the phrase "personal computer" being used in
reference to the IBM 610 Auto-Point as far back as the late 1950s.
> In 1967 where I worked had a desktop-sized
> electronic calculator a stencil-type grid for onscreen number generation
> and reverse polish notation, with the stack shown on the screen.
I've seen pictures of some of those machines. Don't believe I've seen
one in the metal, as it were. (The Boston Museum of Science had an old
electronic calculator with nixie-tube display, but I don't remember it
being a stack-based RPN machine.)
David Hatunen
> David Hatunen wrote:
>> In 1967 where I worked had a desktop-sized electronic calculator a
>> stencil-type grid for onscreen number generation and reverse polish
>> notation, with the stack shown on the screen.
>
> I've seen pictures of some of those machines. Don't believe I've seen
> one in the metal, as it were. (The Boston Museum of Science had an old
> electronic calculator with nixie-tube display, but I don't remember it
> being a stack-based RPN machine.)
If memory serves, it was this one:
http://www.oldcalculatormuseum.com/friden130.html
Joe Pfeiffer
>
> I don't know where my copy of HFL has gone to, but here's a brief
> mention in _Tom Swift in the Race to the Moon_. (This is actually a
> Tom Swift Jr book, despite the title; by this point in the series I
> think they had dropped "Jr" from the titles.)
I don't think the Jr was ever part of the titles -- here's a page with
an image of the book cover.
http://www.tomswift.info/homepage/flylab.html
It trumpets "New Tom Swift Jr. Adventures" across the top, but the title
is "Tom Swift and His Flying Lab".
Mike Lyle
At the same time, Col. Dan Dare and the rest of Spacefleet had what I
remember as very like mobile 'phones, and which they called
"communicators".
--
Mike.
Scott Lurndal
>David Hatunen wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 09:51:30 -0500, Michael Wojcik wrote:
>>
>>> I did a little Google N-Gram searching, and found what appears to be a
>>> 1966 use.[1] It's in Andries van Dam, "Computer Displays in Man /
>>> Machine Interaction", _Advances in Computers_, v 7, ed Franz Alt: "The
>>> current popularity of 'public utility' time sharing, and the resurgence
>>> of the small personal computer with algebraic compiler, are therefore
>>> both easily explained."
>>
>> "Public utility time sharing" sounds like work stations.
>
>Centralized computing of some sort, certainly. It's clearly not a
>reference to personal computers.
Cloud Computing.
s
Anne & Lynn Wheeler
Michael Wojcik <mwo...@newsguy.com> writes:
> Centralized computing of some sort, certainly. It's clearly not a
> reference to personal computers.
there were some number of virtual machine based, commercial, online,
timesharing that sprung up in the 60s ... using some derivative of cp67.
the virtual machine part provided for a kind of personal
computers/computing.
I've made some number of references to it being the earlier generation
of cloud computing.
misc. past posts referring to virtual machine based, commercial, online
timesharing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#timeshare
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
Charles Richmond
Maybe it's *not* Tom Swift that is the "junior", but it is "Junior
Adventures". After all, a juvenile could only have "junior"
adventures. :-)
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond |
| |
| plano dot net at aquaporin4 dot com |
+----------------------------------------+
Charles Richmond
> In article<1b4o8cs...@snowball.wb.pfeifferfamily.net>,
> Joe Pfeiffer<pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The only thing even remotely like an iPhone I can recall from sci-fi was
>>> the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, and it couldn't make phone calls or
>>> play games or you know, do anything other than read the book.
>>
>> A Kindle! But with only one book on it.
>
It stands to reason... the *one* book on an iPhone... would be a
*phone* book! ;-)
Joe Pfeiffer
> On 2/10/11 1:31 PM, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>> Michael Wojcik<mwo...@newsguy.com> writes:
>>>
>>> I don't know where my copy of HFL has gone to, but here's a brief
>>> mention in _Tom Swift in the Race to the Moon_. (This is actually a
>>> Tom Swift Jr book, despite the title; by this point in the series I
>>> think they had dropped "Jr" from the titles.)
>>
>> I don't think the Jr was ever part of the titles -- here's a page with
>> an image of the book cover.
>>
>> http://www.tomswift.info/homepage/flylab.html
>>
>> It trumpets "New Tom Swift Jr. Adventures" across the top, but the title
>> is "Tom Swift and His Flying Lab".
>
> Maybe it's *not* Tom Swift that is the "junior", but it is "Junior
> Adventures". After all, a juvenile could only have "junior"
> adventures. :-)
Assuming (in spite of the smiley) you're serious -- it's established
early and often in the stories that this is Tom Jr., the son of the
famous inventor Tom Sr.
As a Jr. myself, that's actually part of the series that resonated with
me as a kid.
R H Draney
By the way, in connection with a related topic often discussed here, I noticed
this a couple of days ago:
http://content.comicskingdom.net/Bizarro/Bizarro.20110209_large.gif
Roland Hutchinson
> On Feb 9, 12:23 am, Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> But in general, the common themes in this area in science fiction
>> were...
>>
>> The big, enormous future computer. Isaac Asimov's Multivac was one
>> example, but there were many of those in science fiction - inspired by
>> real computers, of course. The curved lines of the IBM SSEC seem to
>> have inspired some artists who illustrated science fiction, for that
>> matter.
>
> For many years the computer future was foreseen as giant computers
> serving as a "computer utility", accessed by terminals people would have
> at home and work. The giant size would create economies of scale which
> would make the access cost low enough to be affordable.
Kind of like freezers, back in the day (a decade or three earlier).
jmfbahciv
> David Hatunen wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 09:51:30 -0500, Michael Wojcik wrote:
>>
>>> I did a little Google N-Gram searching, and found what appears to be a
>>> 1966 use.[1] It's in Andries van Dam, "Computer Displays in Man /
>>> Machine Interaction", _Advances in Computers_, v 7, ed Franz Alt: "The
>>> current popularity of 'public utility' time sharing, and the resurgence
>>> of the small personal computer with algebraic compiler, are therefore
>>> both easily explained."
>>
>> "Public utility time sharing" sounds like work stations.
>
> Centralized computing of some sort, certainly. It's clearly not a
> reference to personal computers.
If you logged into a TOPS-10, even a 4S72 system, you had the equivalent
experience of having the entire machine to yourself. That's why it was called
a general purpose timesharing system. Depending on how operations set
up the constraints of the system, every user had the feeling of unlimited
access to all computer resources. The industry had to wait for "small"
components before these same users could carry their system and
plug it in anywhere.
<snip>
/BAH
Lawrence Statton
>
> Maybe it's *not* Tom Swift that is the "junior", but it is "Junior
> Adventures". After all, a juvenile could only have "junior"
> adventures. :-)
>
At The Gaslighter Theater (a Campbell, California based
vaudeville/melodrama revival house that I visited frequently in the
early '90s), Leland Stanford Jr. University was frequently mentioned
in gags with the phrasing changed from "A university named for Leland
Stanford, Jr." to "A Junior University, named for Leland Stanford"
This always got laughs from the audience, mod a few boos from Stanford
Grads :)
Walter Bushell
jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:
> f you logged into a TOPS-10, even a 4S72 system, you had the equivalent
> experience of having the entire machine to yourself.
I worked with the TOP-10 and -20 and that was definately not the case.
The response time varied widely depending on how many other users were
on the system. I was doing development and was frequently told to stop
using the machine when the user load was high.
--
The Chinese pretend their goods are good and we pretend our money
is good, or is it the reverse?
Anne & Lynn Wheeler
> I worked with the TOP-10 and -20 and that was definately not the case.
> The response time varied widely depending on how many other users were
> on the system. I was doing development and was frequently told to stop
> using the machine when the user load was high.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#80 The first personal computer (PC)
they obvious didn't have my fairshare scheduler ... that i had
originally done for cp67 as undergraduate (it actually established
generalized resource consumption policies ... with the default being
"fairshare")
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare
things would still degrade under heavy load ... but much more gracefully
... and trivial interactive activity tended to be fairly well insulated
from heavy users.
This was dropped in part of the simplification morph from cp67 to vm370
... but I got later re-introduce it as the "resource manager". However,
this was after the future system demise and the mad rush to get products
back into the 370 hardware&software product pipelines (contributing to
decided to release stuff that I had been doing all during the future
system period) ... misc. past posts mentioning "future system"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
the distraction of future system (and future system doing its best to
kill off all 370 activity ... as part of supporting their strategic
position) ... is claimed as contributing to clone processors getting
market foothold.
the 23jun69 unbundling announcement (in response to various litigation)
had started charging for software (and other changes) ... but the
company managed to make the case (with the gov) that kernel software
should still be free.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#unbundle
however, later with the clone processors in the market, the decision was
made to transition to charging for kernel software ... and my resource
manager was selected as guinea pig ... which met that I to spend a lot
of time with business & legal people on policies for kernel software
charging. the transition period also had other implications
... discussed in this recent long-winded post:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#61 VM13025 ... zombie/hung users
During the transition, there was combination of free & charged-for
kernel software ... with sometimes peculiar interaction ... after
several years ... the transition was complete and all software was being
charged for. About that time, the OCO-wars (object code only) began, in
addition to charging for all software ... also no longer provided full
source.
David Hatunen
It's always sort of amused me that the major educational institution near
Palo Alto, California, is the Leland Stanford Junior University.
R H Draney
>
>In message <ij22uq$k0d$2...@news.eternal-september.org>
>
>> It stands to reason... the *one* book on an iPhone... would be a
>> *phone* book! ;-)
>
You sit on DSL to reach the table at a restaurant?...
Seriously, they keep leaving them by my back door, and there doesn't seem to be
an opt-out...so I put them in the car to use when I'm driving around and need to
look up an address....r
Patrick Scheible
> In message <ij22uq$k0d$2...@news.eternal-september.org>
> Charles Richmond <fri...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
> > On 2/9/11 10:22 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> >> In article<1b4o8cs...@snowball.wb.pfeifferfamily.net>,
> >> Joe Pfeiffer<pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...]
> > >>
> >>>> The only thing even remotely like an iPhone I can recall from sci-fi was
> >>>> the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, and it couldn't make phone calls or
> >>>> play games or you know, do anything other than read the book.
> >>>
> >>> A Kindle! But with only one book on it.
> >>
> >> What other book would you need?
>
> > It stands to reason... the *one* book on an iPhone... would be a
> > *phone* book! ;-)
>
> Ugh. I haven't used a phone book since I got DSL back in 1997 or so.
Heh. I needed the phone book to find the number for Quest service
when my DSL went on the blink a couple of years ago...
-- Patrick
Default User
news:ij3qk...@drn.newsguy.com...
The White Pages are opt-in only around here, so I don't get a new one
anymore. I often prefer the paper Yellow Pages to yp.com.
Brian
--
Day 736 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
Current music playing: None.
Michael Wojcik
> Michael Wojcik wrote:
>> David Hatunen wrote:
>>> On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 09:51:30 -0500, Michael Wojcik wrote:
>>>
>>>> I did a little Google N-Gram searching, and found what appears to be a
>>>> 1966 use.[1] It's in Andries van Dam, "Computer Displays in Man /
>>>> Machine Interaction", _Advances in Computers_, v 7, ed Franz Alt: "The
>>>> current popularity of 'public utility' time sharing, and the resurgence
>>>> of the small personal computer with algebraic compiler, are therefore
>>>> both easily explained."
>>> "Public utility time sharing" sounds like work stations.
>> Centralized computing of some sort, certainly. It's clearly not a
>> reference to personal computers.
>
> If you logged into a TOPS-10, even a 4S72 system, you had the equivalent
> experience of having the entire machine to yourself. That's why it was called
> a general purpose timesharing system.
Agreed, but I don't know how strictly van Dam is using the term "time
sharing" above. Some people used it quite loosely, even to refer to
batch processing at service bureaus where the various customers
"shared" the machine over the course of a day, though jobs might be
run sequentially.
The book was published in '66, so the chapter was likely written in
'65, which was, what, a couple of years before TOPS-10 was released?
So van Dam might have been talking about real "feels like the machine
is yours" timesharing, but not about TOPS-10 specifically. And were
there "popular" timesharing OSes before TOPS-10?
Michael Wojcik
Yes, that's another a.f.c chestnut. And indeed much of what's billed
as "Cloud Computing" is just the latest incarnation of the service
bureau / utility computing. There are also private clouds, though,
which use the "cloud architecture" (such as it is) within a single
organization, rather than to provide a commercial data-processing service.
But my point, of course, was that the book in question (from 1966,
before the phrase "cloud computing" was coined) was referring, with
those four words, to some kind of centralized DP.
Michael Wojcik
That's not the one I remember, if my memory is at all accurate (far
from a sure thing). It's quite possible the BMS had more than one
model on display over the years.
The one I used there had multiple terminals, with numeric keypads and
some operators, and nixie-tube displays, connected to a central
engine. There might have been four terminals. The cases were mostly
black, IIRC.
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> >Ugh. I haven't used a phone book since I got DSL back in 1997 or so.
>
> You sit on DSL to reach the table at a restaurant?...
> Seriously, they keep leaving them by my back door, and there doesn't seem to be
> an opt-out...so I put them in the car to use when I'm driving around and need to
> look up an address....r
Many telephone companies have ceased publishing hard copy telephone
directories.
Default User
news:3856d2b4-e75f-4eb7...@n1g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> Many telephone companies have ceased publishing hard copy telephone
> directories.
I'd be surprised if that were the case. Some (like AT&T) have stopped
routinely distributing the White Pages. You can still request a copy. There
are people without access to computers.
Robert Bannister
> <hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message
> news:3856d2b4-e75f-4eb7...@n1g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Many telephone companies have ceased publishing hard copy telephone
>> directories.
>
> I'd be surprised if that were the case. Some (like AT&T) have stopped
> routinely distributing the White Pages. You can still request a copy. There
> are people without access to computers.
There are also still a lot of people without mobile phones. My phone
(which I prefer to remain in one place) is quite a long way from my
computer. If I'm at/near the computer, I prefer to email. If I must
phone, then I like to sit down with the books first and browse.
--
Rob Bannister
R H Draney
>
><hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message
>news:3856d2b4-e75f-4eb7...@n1g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Many telephone companies have ceased publishing hard copy telephone
>> directories.
>
>I'd be surprised if that were the case. Some (like AT&T) have stopped
>routinely distributing the White Pages. You can still request a copy. There
>are people without access to computers.
It's also possible the the companies that have "ceased" publishing phone books
have simply moved to other cities...there are at least three companies that
annually leave what my homeowner's association describes as "debris" outside my
door....r
Charles Richmond
> In message<ij22uq$k0d$2...@news.eternal-september.org>
> Charles Richmond<fri...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>>> In article<1b4o8cs...@snowball.wb.pfeifferfamily.net>,
>>> Joe Pfeiffer<pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...]
>>>>
>>>>> The only thing even remotely like an iPhone I can recall from sci-fi was
>>>>> the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, and it couldn't make phone calls or
>>>>> play games or you know, do anything other than read the book.
>>>>
>>>> A Kindle! But with only one book on it.
>>>
>>> What other book would you need?
>
>> It stands to reason... the *one* book on an iPhone... would be a
>> *phone* book! ;-)
>
>
Hey, big heavy phone books are *great*!!! You can use them to prop
the door open, or to weigh down the top of your scanner so the
paper will lie flat inside. :-)
jmfbahciv
Or they spun off the business.
/BAH
jmfbahciv
> In article <PM00049C0...@aca4bc14.ipt.aol.com>,
> jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> f you logged into a TOPS-10, even a 4S72 system, you had the equivalent
>> experience of having the entire machine to yourself.
>
> I worked with the TOP-10 and -20 and that was definately not the case.
> The response time varied widely depending on how many other users were
> on the system. I was doing development and was frequently told to stop
> using the machine when the user load was high.
>
and how much. You experienced an operations head-wedge. ;-)
/BAH
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
gree...@yahoo.co.uk (greenaum) wrote:
> On 10 Feb 2011 14:34:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> sprachen:
>
> >Dick Tracy had his phone in his wrist watch.
>
> Are those Chinese wristwatch-phones any good, you think? They're
> actually quite cheap now. I'm desperate to have one, but experience
> tells me they won't work properly and will be infinitely inferior to
> an actual mobile phone, or a wristwatch.
I haven't tried one but it seems to me that a bulky wristwatch that
has the battery life of a cell phone with an undersized battery is a bad
idea (especially compared to the normal 3-10 year life of a watch battery),
at best they'll be an OK phone and a dreadful watch prone to being out of
action when you need to know the time.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Walter Bushell
jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:
About the size of it. Oft, while in deep debugging the call would go out
"<control-C> everybody!"
Walter Bushell
gree...@yahoo.co.uk (greenaum) wrote:
> Nowadays in the UK directory enquiries is paid for at 75p / minute,
> since they privatised them and decided to make it into a market. Used
> to be free. There's privatisation for you.
Exactly. When it was free, everybody was paying for it. Now only the
people using the service are paying. I haven't used directory service in
well maybe a decade, way back when there were coin phones on the streets.
Walter Bushell
I think "operations head-wedgie" would be more appropriate terminology.
David Hatunen
> In message <PM00049BE...@ac813a8d.ipt.aol.com>
> jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com> wrote:
>> Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <8rg5cc...@mid.individual.net>
>>> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> -------------- quote -------------------- "Quadibloc"
>>>> <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in message
>>>>
news:500e0245-09f6-42cc...@m13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Feb 8, 8:18 pm, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I would expect it to appear in science-fiction stories well before
>>>>> that (though I have no proof of such).
>>>
>>>> One thing I do know, though, is that at the time the first pocket
>>>> calculators came out, and the microcomputer revolution began, it was
>>>> discussed how science fiction had almost completely missed
>>>> envisioning that revolution.
>>>
>>> The future (well, our present) turned out to be almost nothing like
>>> any sci-fi writer envisioned, and no one predicted that anything
>>> remotely like the iPhone would be possible.
>
>> Dick Tracy had his phone in his wrist watch.
>
> 1) It wasn't a phone, it was a radio.
A two-way wrist radio. I'm not sure where a wireless two-way radio and a
wireless wrist phone begin to fade into one another. The old mobile
phones were duplex radios installed by Ma Bell in your car or where ever.
I think you even had to have an operator connect you with your number,
something quite feasible with even Tracy's two-way writs radio.
2) Not much like an iPhone.
It's a start.
David Hatunen
> Many telephone companies have ceased publishing hard copy telephone
> directories.
Rather foolishly, Ma Bell never trade-marked "Yellow Pages". Then the
court ruling that phone number data was not copyrightable made it
impossible for the phone companies to really compete, since they compiled
the data and the wildcat directory publishers stole the data.
tony cooper
<dhat...@cox.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:34:29 -0800, hancock4 wrote:
>
>> Many telephone companies have ceased publishing hard copy telephone
>> directories.
>
>Rather foolishly, Ma Bell never trade-marked "Yellow Pages". Then the
>court ruling that phone number data was not copyrightable made it
>impossible for the phone companies to really compete, since they compiled
>the data and the wildcat directory publishers stole the data.
Years ago I worked for R.H. Donnelley in Chicago. Donnelly was under
contract to provide the Yellow Pages for many cities all over the
country. The telephone companies provided the name/address/phone
numbers, and RHD sold the advertising space and published the Yellow
Pages. Many of the telephone books were printed by R.R. Donnelley,
although the two companies were not connected in any way. (They had
been, once, but not at that time or since.)
Yellow Pages advertising is paid by the month according to the size of
the ad. If an advertiser stopped paying the monthly advertising bill,
the telephone company assigned them a new telephone number with no
referral from the old number.
Any "wildcat" publishers must collect any advertising fee up-front
because they have no way to stop the ad from pulling in callers.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Christian Brunschen
David Hatunen <dhat...@cox.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:34:29 -0800, hancock4 wrote:
>
>> Many telephone companies have ceased publishing hard copy telephone
>> directories.
>
>Rather foolishly, Ma Bell never trade-marked "Yellow Pages".
... but British Telecom did, in the UK. That's why Sun renamed their "yp"
(yellow pages) system to "nis" (network information service).
// Christian Brunschen
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:34:29 -0800, hancock4 wrote:
>
> > Many telephone companies have ceased publishing hard copy telephone
> > directories.
>
> Rather foolishly, Ma Bell never trade-marked "Yellow Pages". Then the
That was left for British Telecom to do, hence NIS.
> court ruling that phone number data was not copyrightable made it
> impossible for the phone companies to really compete, since they compiled
> the data and the wildcat directory publishers stole the data.
The simple answer would have been to stop publishing it.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
The Yellow Pages trademark is now owned by the Yell group of companies.
"Trade marks" paragraph here:
http://www.yellgroup.com/english/sitetermsconditions
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Charles Richmond
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:34:29 -0800, hancock4 wrote:
>
>> Many telephone companies have ceased publishing hard copy telephone
>> directories.
>
> Rather foolishly, Ma Bell never trade-marked "Yellow Pages". Then the
> court ruling that phone number data was not copyrightable made it
> impossible for the phone companies to really compete, since they compiled
> the data and the wildcat directory publishers stole the data.
>
Ahemmm..... It's *very* hard to steal some data that is already
"public domain".
Charles Richmond
Ahhh.... Extortion at it's best!!!
"Pay us or we will zorch your phone number!!!"
Charles Richmond
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 11:18:19 -0500, Walter Bushell<pr...@panix.com>
> sprachen:
>
> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...]
>
>> I haven't used directory service in
>> well maybe a decade, way back when there were coin phones on the streets.
>
> things like that. It's also common among low-income people to own a
> mobile phone for incoming calls and never have any credit on it. Phone
> access ought to be a basic human right.
>
In the US, most *pay* per minute for *incoming* calls on cell
phones too....
Jerry Friedman
> In message <8rg5ccFc8...@mid.individual.net>> > "Quadibloc" <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in message
> >news:500e0245-09f6-42cc...@m13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 8, 8:18 pm, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:
> >> I would expect it to appear in science-fiction stories well before that
> >> (though I have no proof of such).
> > One thing I do know, though, is that at the time the first pocket
> > calculators came out, and the microcomputer revolution began, it was
> > discussed how science fiction had almost completely missed envisioning
> > that revolution.
>
> The future (well, our present) turned out to be almost nothing like any
> sci-fi writer envisioned, and no one predicted that anything remotely
> like the iPhone would be possible.
>
> slide rule to input the flight plan into the navigation system.
Well, yes. At least a couple of Heinlein's stories in the '50s
envisioned slide rules as staying in use for the next few centuries.
(But what could be better? No need for a power source and nothing
that could break.)
> The only thing even remotely like an iPhone I can recall from sci-fi was
> the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, and it couldn't make phone calls or
> play games or you know, do anything other than read the book.
The Minisec in Arthur C. Clarke's /Imperial Earth/ (1976) might have
been one of the closer ones.
--
Jerry Friedman
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
gree...@yahoo.co.uk (greenaum) wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 15:28:17 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <ste...@eircom.net> sprachen:
>
> >> Are those Chinese wristwatch-phones any good, you think? They're
> >> actually quite cheap now. I'm desperate to have one, but experience
> >> tells me they won't work properly and will be infinitely inferior to
> >> an actual mobile phone, or a wristwatch.
> >
> > I haven't tried one but it seems to me that a bulky wristwatch
> > that
> >has the battery life of a cell phone with an undersized battery is a bad
> >idea (especially compared to the normal 3-10 year life of a watch
> >battery), at best they'll be an OK phone and a dreadful watch prone to
> >being out of action when you need to know the time.
>
> The battery's a lithium polymer one. Possibly it makes up part of the
> case. I'm sure you'd get a couple of days out of it. My current mobile
> got 5 or so days from one charge when it was new, 4 years ago.
My point exactly - I change my watch battery about every three
years, and I have a couple of months to respond the the dim backlight
before it affects the timekeeping. Take that wristphone away from it's
charger for a week and your watch is dead.
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>In the US, most *pay* per minute for *incoming* calls on cell
>phones too....
How convenient for phone spammers.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Morten Reistad
greenaum <gree...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 15:28:17 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
><ste...@eircom.net> sprachen:
>The cheap clone Chinese MP4 players use a Z80, with a DSP integrated.
>The video's like M-JPEG, except with certain fixed values in the
>cosine-transformer or something, don't really understand all of that.
>The phone bit can spend a lot of time in standby. So it needn't be too
>awful on the power drain. Obviously it's intended as a phone first,
>not a watch, so you wouldn't expect 10 years of usage off the battery.
>
>What was the sort of MIPS needed for a first-gen GSM phone? How much
>does the CODEC and basic comms protocol need? An 8-bit with 8K RAM or
>something a bit stronger? Just as an idea for the minimum reqs a phone
>needs.
The GSM 06.10, old "fullrate" codec needs around 40 mips for a good
encode/decode with reasonable dejittering and packet loss concealment.
That is the robust, old one at 13 kilobits. Z80s are too lame for
this, but not by much.
The GSM 06.20 "half rate", 06.60 "extended full rate", and 06.90 AMR
use a lot more than this. A 400 Mhz ARM processor is just about able
to do software-based handling of codecs, GSM/2G/3G/edge etc handling,
packet based networks, etc.
-- mrr
Joe Thompson
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:33:50 -0600, Charles Richmond <fri...@tx.rr.com>
> wrote:
>>In the US, most *pay* per minute for *incoming* calls on cell
>>phones too....
>
> How convenient for phone spammers.
I rarely get actual phone spam on my cell phone -- there are laws with
actual teeth dealing with that, apparently, unlike our Do Not Call list
which has exemptions big enough to pass a call center through. -- Joe
--
Joe Thompson | Sysadmin - Social Irritant - Political Dilettante
E-mail addresses in headers are valid. | http://www.orion-com.com/
"It is hard to imagine the Ayatollah Elmo." -- http://bit.ly/icLRjB
jmfbahciv
> On 2011-02-13, Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:33:50 -0600, Charles Richmond <fri...@tx.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>>In the US, most *pay* per minute for *incoming* calls on cell
>>>phones too....
>>
>> How convenient for phone spammers.
>
> I rarely get actual phone spam on my cell phone -- there are laws with
> actual teeth dealing with that, apparently, unlike our Do Not Call list
> which has exemptions big enough to pass a call center through. -- Joe
Where do you think those phone spammers get their phone numbers?
I had one actually tell me that's what he used. The teeth in those
laws are really a false set which is always at the dentist's getting
repaired.
/BAH
Joe Thompson
> Joe Thompson wrote:
>> I rarely get actual phone spam on my cell phone -- there are laws with
>> actual teeth dealing with that, apparently, unlike our Do Not Call list
>> which has exemptions big enough to pass a call center through. -- Joe
>
> Where do you think those phone spammers get their phone numbers?
> I had one actually tell me that's what he used. The teeth in those
> laws are really a false set which is always at the dentist's getting
> repaired.
I don't know if I'd take that at face value. Phone-spamming numbers on
the DNC list sounds like a guaranteed way to just piss off a lot of
people and get no sales out of it. He'd do better just calling every
number in the phone book, and he probably knows that. -- Joe
Anne & Lynn Wheeler
Joe Thompson <sp...@orion-com.com> writes:
> I don't know if I'd take that at face value. Phone-spamming numbers on
> the DNC list sounds like a guaranteed way to just piss off a lot of
> people and get no sales out of it. He'd do better just calling every
> number in the phone book, and he probably knows that. -- Joe
there was earlier discussion where I claimed that I started getting an
extremely large uptick in political soliciting calls after registering
for DNC (high corrolation with using DNC as calling list, which they
had exempted in the legislation) ... past posts here in a.f.c.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#73 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#47 How to defeat new telemarketing tactic
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970