Parsey McParseface

[David Kleinecke]

Any idea where the "meme" represented by "Parsey McParseface"
and "Boaty McBoatface" originated?

[pensive hamster]

On Friday, 13 May 2016 19:27:24 UTC+1, David Kleinecke wrote:
> Any idea where the "meme" represented by "Parsey McParseface"
> and "Boaty McBoatface" originated?

Not sure if this answers your question, but:

<http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/mar/21/man-behind-rrs-boaty-mcboatface-disavows-his-name-for-polar-vessel>

Man behind RRS Boaty McBoatface disavows his name for
polar vessel

It seemed like a good idea at the time. But now the man whose
suggestion to name a new polar research ship RRS Boaty
McBoatface went viral says he is disowning the idea.

The Natural Environment Research Council (NERC) launched its
drive to find public suggestions for the name of their soon-to-be-built
£200m research vessel on Friday. By the weekend their website
had crashed under the weight of voting.

Much of this was down to James Hand, a former BBC presenter
turned press officer, who used the website to suggest RRS (for royal
research ship) Boaty McBoatface. ...

Speaking to BBC Radio Jersey, his former employer, Hands said he
had no grand hopes for the idea when it was submitted. “I would say
90% of the entries at that point were really quite funny so I thought,
I’ll throw one into the ring and just see what happens,” he said.

By the time the site eventually crashed yesterday it was leading by
about 8,000. “I have apologised profusely,” Hands said.

Mixing metaphors freely, he added: “The storm that’s been created
– it’s got legs of its own.”

Hands confessed that the proposal was not even new. He suggested
it last year in a contest to name a new boat for Condor Ferries
operating between Poole and the Channel Islands. The eventual
winner in that case was the more sober Liberation.

“Part of me thinks that Condor didn’t like it because it might have
made them look a little bit silly,” Hands said. “I bet they are kicking
themselves now.” ...

[Jerry Friedman]

On Friday, May 13, 2016 at 12:27:24 PM UTC-6, David Kleinecke wrote:
> Any idea where the "meme" represented by "Parsey McParseface"
> and "Boaty McBoatface" originated?

There's some discussion at Language Log, but nothing definitive yet.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=25752#comments

/The Simpsons/ has been mentioned.

Also, Mark Liberman wrote, "I'll have more to say later about the [neural
network] framework, the English parser, and its results."

--
Jerry Friedman

[Richard Tobin]

In article <68b831dd-9c95-4a6c...@googlegroups.com>,

David Kleinecke <dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Any idea where the "meme" represented by "Parsey McParseface"
>and "Boaty McBoatface" originated?

The earliest version I recall, which doesn't have exactly the
same form, was in Blackadder III, "Duel and Duality":

He's madder than Mad Jack McMad the winner of last year's Mr Madman
competition.

-- Richard

[Peter Percival]

David Kleinecke wrote:
> Any idea where the "meme" represented by "Parsey McParseface"
> and "Boaty McBoatface" originated?
>

In the increasing infantalism of the human race?

--
A high and rising proportion of children are being born to mothers
least fitted to bring children into the world.... Some are of low
intelligence, most of low educational attainment. They are unlikely
to be able to give children the stable emotional background, the
consistent combination of love and firmness.... They are producing
problem children.... The balance of our human stock, is threatened...
Sir Keith Joseph

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <nh7o0e$6v3$1...@news.albasani.net>,

Peter Percival <peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> David Kleinecke wrote:
> > Any idea where the "meme" represented by "Parsey McParseface"
> > and "Boaty McBoatface" originated?
> >
> In the increasing infantalism of the human race?

I think it's Jane Austen's fault for writing things like Clueless.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 14 May 2016 18:41:30 +0100, Peter Percival
<peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>David Kleinecke wrote:
>> Any idea where the "meme" represented by "Parsey McParseface"
>> and "Boaty McBoatface" originated?
>>
>In the increasing infantalism of the human race?

Would that go alongside the increasing deterioration in language?

Were pre-cave-dwelling humans incredibly sophisticated and "adult",
speaking in very high-class language with an advanced grammar and
vocabulary? Was that a Golden Age from which everything has coarsened
and decayed?

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[David Kleinecke]

Back when we all talked Sanskrit to the gods.

[Dr. HotSalt]

On Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 12:57:57 PM UTC-7, PeterWD wrote:

We occasionally see posted here historical letters containing rants about how illiterate people have become.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that Babylonian clay tablets with the same plaint have been discovered, or cave paintings for that matter.


Dr. HotSalt

[pensive hamster]

On Saturday, 14 May 2016 21:50:51 UTC+1, Dr. HotSalt wrote:
> On Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 12:57:57 PM UTC-7, PeterWD wrote:

> > On Sat, 14 May 2016 18:41:30 +0100, Peter Percival wrote:
> > >David Kleinecke wrote:
> > >> Any idea where the "meme" represented by "Parsey McParseface"
> > >> and "Boaty McBoatface" originated?
> > >>
> > >In the increasing infantalism of the human race?
> >
> > Would that go alongside the increasing deterioration in language?
> >
> > Were pre-cave-dwelling humans incredibly sophisticated and "adult",
> > speaking in very high-class language with an advanced grammar and
> > vocabulary? Was that a Golden Age from which everything has coarsened
> > and decayed?
>
> We occasionally see posted here historical letters containing rants about how illiterate people have become.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised to see that Babylonian clay tablets with the same plaint have been discovered, or cave paintings for that matter.

No idea if this is factual, or if someone just made it up, but:

"The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a
book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching."
~ Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC

They probably made jibes about Arky McArkface too.

[Peter T. Daniels]

It's "dated" only about 2000 years before there was such a thing as an Assyrian.

[Peter Moylan]

How do you define "advanced" in relation to grammar? I have the
impression that the older or more primitive the language, the more
complex the grammar was. Modern languages have moved, and are still
moving, in the direction of simplifying the grammar.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[David Kleinecke]

Oh dear.

In one word - no.

There is no agreed-upon simplicity measure for grammars. The Chomskians
tried hard to formulate one and failed utterly. One little problem is
that the same language can be generated from more than one grammar.

If one were to use morphological complexity as a measure everyone
agrees that that cycles. Anyway it's a very poor metric.

I submit that, for example, classical Latin grammar is simpler than
contemporary French grammar. Not to mention English.

[RH Draney]

That one slipped past me, but there was an episode of "Friends" ("The
One Where Ross Dates A Student") in which Ross revealed that he gave all
his students nicknames, including Sleepy Sleeperson, Smelly von Brown
Shirt, and (the student he ends up dating) Cutie McPretty....

In other episodes, Rachel calls a co-worker "Smokey Smokerson", Monica
calls Chandler "Pervie Perverson", and Phoebe taunts Ross by calling him
"Lovey Loverson"....r

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Adam was fired from his position of Head Gardener in Eden for referring
to his divine employer as Bossy McBossface.

[pensive hamster]

?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_people#Pre-Christian_history

'The history of the Assyrian people begins with the formation of
Assyria perhaps as early as the 25th century BC,.[48] The
Assyrian king list records kings dating from the 25th century BC
onwards, the earliest being Tudiya, who was a contemporary of
Ibrium of Ebla. However, many of these early kings would have
been local rulers, and from the late 24th century BC to the early
22nd century BC, usually subject to the Akkadian Empire.

'In the traditions of the Assyrian Church of the East, they are
descended from Abraham's grandson (Dedan son of Jokshan),
progenitor of the ancient Assyrians.[49] However, there is no
historical basis for the biblical assertion whatsoever; there is no
mention in Assyrian records (which date as far back as the
24th century BC).

'The Assyrian people, after the fall of their empire, fell under
foreign domination ever since. The Persian Empire was founded,
which consumed the entire Neo-Babylonian or "Chaldean" Empire
in 539 BC. Assyrians became front line soldiers for the Persian
Empire under Xerxes I, playing a major role in the Battle of
Marathon under Darius I in 490 BC.[50] ...'

[Jerry Friedman]

This page of a book talks briefly about the cycle, noting that Finnish
and the Athabascan and Altaic languages have increased in morphological
complexity, and that one author says that from Old Egyptian to Middle
Egyptian to Coptic there was a decrease and then an increase.

https://books.google.com/books?id=x_blq6kT0vEC&pg=PA8

The whole book is about such cycles, but it appears to be written for
linguists.

> I submit that, for example, classical Latin grammar is simpler than
> contemporary French grammar. Not to mention English.

By what metric?

--
Jerry Friedman
"No Trump" bridge-themed political shirts: cafepress.com/jerrysdesigns
Bumper stickers ditto: cafepress/jerrysstickers

[David Kleinecke]

Kleinecke's intuition.

[Charles Bishop]

In article <pd0fjb9860hcuj7m0...@4ax.com>,

Since you ask, it was the early 1950s.

charles, when I were but a lad and the world was golden

[occam]

On 13/05/2016 21:05, pensive hamster wrote:
> On Friday, 13 May 2016 19:27:24 UTC+1, David Kleinecke wrote:
>> Any idea where the "meme" represented by "Parsey McParseface"
>> and "Boaty McBoatface" originated?
>
> Not sure if this answers your question, but:
>
> <http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/mar/21/man-behind-rrs-boaty-mcboatface-disavows-his-name-for-polar-vessel>
>
> Man behind RRS Boaty McBoatface disavows his name for
> polar vessel
>
> It seemed like a good idea at the time. But now the man whose
> suggestion to name a new polar research ship RRS Boaty
> McBoatface went viral says he is disowning the idea.
>
> The Natural Environment Research Council (NERC) launched its
> drive to find public suggestions for the name of their soon-to-be-built
> £200m research vessel on Friday. By the weekend their website
> had crashed under the weight of voting.

The committee has decided to name the ship Sir David Attenborough.

In a bizzare twist to this story, there is now a call for Sir David
Attenborough to change his name - by deed poll- to Boaty McBoatface, in
the name of democratic justice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/davey-mcattenborougface_uk_572c9335e4b0e6da49a623ea

[Peter T. Daniels]

This is not what is meant by "Assyrian" in cuneiform studies!

In fact the adherents of the modern "Assyrian" churches had no more knowledge
of the cuneiform civilizations than any European did until the explorations
and then excavations, and the decipherments and interpretations of the languages
involved.

The Akkadian language had essentially two main dialect groups, "Assyrian"
in the north and "Babylonian" in the south, named for the first-millennium
empires known from the Bible and (a bit) from Herodotus. In 2800 BCE a
variety of Akkadian known (for that reason) as Old Assyrian was used by
a trading colony in eastern Anatolia that happened to get excavated fairly
early on that yielded a number of business archives. The aphorism quoted
above is not likely to have appeared in a business archive.

But I wonder why you're trying to defend its authenticity when you yourself
prefaced it with "No idea if this is factual, or if someone just made it up."

> 'The history of the Assyrian people begins with the formation of
> Assyria perhaps as early as the 25th century BC,.[48] The
> Assyrian king list records kings dating from the 25th century BC
> onwards, the earliest being Tudiya, who was a contemporary of
> Ibrium of Ebla. However, many of these early kings would have
> been local rulers, and from the late 24th century BC to the early
> 22nd century BC, usually subject to the Akkadian Empire.
>
> 'In the traditions of the Assyrian Church of the East, they are
> descended from Abraham's grandson (Dedan son of Jokshan),
> progenitor of the ancient Assyrians.[49] However, there is no
> historical basis for the biblical assertion whatsoever; there is no
> mention in Assyrian records (which date as far back as the
> 24th century BC).
>
> 'The Assyrian people, after the fall of their empire, fell under
> foreign domination ever since. The Persian Empire was founded,
> which consumed the entire Neo-Babylonian or "Chaldean" Empire
> in 539 BC. Assyrians became front line soldiers for the Persian
> Empire under Xerxes I, playing a major role in the Battle of
> Marathon under Darius I in 490 BC.[50] ...'

That passage actually skipped completely over the several centuries of
existence of the Assyrian Empire! Maybe they don't want to be associated
with biblical Sennacherib, or with Assurbanipal, who, however, was responsible
for gathering the library that has yielded by far the greatest quantity of
literary etc. cuneiform texts from any site.

[Peter T. Daniels]

That would be my old friend Carleton Hodge (1970).

> https://books.google.com/books?id=x_blq6kT0vEC&pg=PA8
>
> The whole book is about such cycles, but it appears to be written for
> linguists.

Turns out to be *The Linguistic Cycle* by Elly van Gelderen (OUP, 2011).

> > I submit that, for example, classical Latin grammar is simpler than
> > contemporary French grammar. Not to mention English.
>
> By what metric?

He'll get an argument from any linguist. As Chas Hockett put it, redundancy
in language hovers around 50%.

R. M. W. Dixon, OTOH, whose principal field is Australian languages, has
guessed that the "most complex" languages can be "about 6 times as complex"
as the simplest, but not "100 times." He doesn't offer any basis for the figure.

[David Kleinecke]

In reality I would argue that all languages have the exactly the
same level of complexity - as much as the speakers are willing
tolerate.

Bit of possible evidence from the tendency of pidgins to rapidly
develop into creoles which rapidly develop lots of complexity.

So my generalization fails on the example of pidgins.

Oh well.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Good Hocketting.

> Bit of possible evidence from the tendency of pidgins to rapidly
> develop into creoles which rapidly develop lots of complexity.
>
> So my generalization fails on the example of pidgins.
>
> Oh well.

Pidgins aren't "real languages." Creoles are.

[Adam Funk]

"'50% of the quotes on the internet are made up.'
--- Abraham Lincoln"



--
I was born, lucky me, in a land that I love.
Though I'm poor, I am free.
When I grow I shall fight; for this land I shall die.
May the sun never set. --- The Kinks

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 5:00:06 AM UTC-4, Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2016-05-15, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 8:01:56 PM UTC-4, pensive hamster wrote:
>
> >> No idea if this is factual, or if someone just made it up, but:
> >>
> >> "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound.
> >> Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a
> >> book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching."
> >> ~ Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC
> >>
> >> They probably made jibes about Arky McArkface too.
> >
> > It's "dated" only about 2000 years before there was such a thing as an Assyrian.
>
> "'50% of the quotes on the internet are made up.'
> --- Abraham Lincoln"

You sure it wasn't Oscar, either Wilde or Levant?

[Adam Funk]

No, I'm not!


--
I never met a people who were better at not getting to the
point than Brits. --- Rich Hall

[pensive hamster]

I'm not trying to defend its authenticity, about which I have some
scepticism, I was just a bit surprised by your comment that the
dating of c. 2800 BC was 'only about 2000 years before there
was such a thing as an Assyrian.'

I vaguely remember being taught, at about age ten, about Assyrians,
along with Nebuchadnezzar, Medes and Persians, Ur of the
Chaldees, and Sumeria, probably as part of Bible studies. I have
only a hazy notion of dates, but c. 2800 BC didn't seem impossibly
early for an Assyrian tablet/empire/people.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Fri, 13 May 2016 12:05:14 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster
<pensive...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>On Friday, 13 May 2016 19:27:24 UTC+1, David Kleinecke wrote:
>> Any idea where the "meme" represented by "Parsey McParseface"
>> and "Boaty McBoatface" originated?
>

>Not sure if this answers your question, but:
>
><http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/mar/21/man-behind-rrs-boaty-mcboatface-disavows-his-name-for-polar-vessel>
>
>Man behind RRS Boaty McBoatface disavows his name for
>polar vessel
>
>It seemed like a good idea at the time. But now the man whose
>suggestion to name a new polar research ship RRS Boaty
>McBoatface went viral says he is disowning the idea.
>

<snip>

While checking on the date of the first Moon landing I was reminded of
this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11#Call_signs

[Apollo spacecraft] Call signs

After the crew of Apollo 10 named their spacecraft "Charlie Brown"
and "Snoopy", assistant manager for public affairs Julian Scheer
wrote to Manned Spacecraft Center director George M. Low to suggest
the Apollo 11 crew be less flippant in naming their craft. During
early mission planning, the names Snowcone and Haystack were used
and put in the news release, but the crew later decided to change
them.

The Command Module was named "Columbia" after the Columbiad, the
giant cannon shell "spacecraft" fired by a giant cannon (also from
Florida) in Jules Verne's 1865 novel From the Earth to the Moon. The
Lunar Module was named "Eagle" for the national bird of the United
States, the bald eagle, which is featured prominently on the mission
insignia.

[Adam Funk]

On 2016-05-16, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:

> While checking on the date of the first Moon landing I was reminded of
> this:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11#Call_signs
>
> [Apollo spacecraft] Call signs
>
> After the crew of Apollo 10 named their spacecraft "Charlie Brown"
> and "Snoopy", assistant manager for public affairs Julian Scheer
> wrote to Manned Spacecraft Center director George M. Low to suggest
> the Apollo 11 crew be less flippant in naming their craft. During
> early mission planning, the names Snowcone and Haystack were used
> and put in the news release, but the crew later decided to change
> them.
>
> The Command Module was named "Columbia" after the Columbiad, the
> giant cannon shell "spacecraft" fired by a giant cannon (also from
> Florida) in Jules Verne's 1865 novel From the Earth to the Moon. The
> Lunar Module was named "Eagle" for the national bird of the United
> States, the bald eagle, which is featured prominently on the mission
> insignia.

Oh well, Benjamin Franklin wanted it to be the turkey.


--
One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words 'Socialism' and
'Communism' draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice
drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, 'Nature Cure'
quack, pacifist, and feminist in England. --- George Orwell

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Fri, 13 May 2016 11:27:21 -0700 (PDT), David Kleinecke
<dklei...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Any idea where the "meme" represented by "Parsey McParseface"
>and "Boaty McBoatface" originated?

Today there is a report in the Times (of London) newspaper about a new
US naval vessel. It starts:

The world’s first specially designed stealth destroyer will be
delivered to the US navy this week in what many believe is a model
for the future of surface warships.

The USS Zumwalt will be the largest destroyer in the American naval
fleet, measuring 183m (600ft) in length and 24m across its beam but
with a radar profile 50 times smaller than conventional vessels of
its size.

The headline writer was unable to resist temptation. The headline is:

Stealthy McStealthface reports for service

[Charles Bishop]

In article <snrmjb5kg47vt60so...@4ax.com>,

"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

Terrific.

--
charles

[bill van]

In article <ctbishop-753117...@news.individual.net>,

See, not all journalists are silly. Some of them can make you smile.
--
bill