He is the first man to land/landing on the moon...
Tacia
Happy New Year.
I have a question difficult for me to make any conclusion.
My question this time is about
a. He is the first man to land on the moon.
b. He is the first man landing on the moon.
The topic was raised on a Taiwanese forum discussing English.
Some guys on the forum think that (b) is not right or no good, because
there are few examples on google web.
What in the world is wrong with (b)?
I think I am doing an objective translation.
------------
Someone asked about the sentence: He is the first man who landed on
the moon.
A teacher told him that he could only put it in "He is the first man
to land on the moon" as its synonymous sentence.
"He is the first man landing on the moon" is not right.
-------------
I consulted two reference books: /Cambridge Grammar of English/ by
Ronald Carter and Michael McCarthy, published by Cambridge University
Press; /Practical English Usage/ by Michael Swan, published by Oxford
University Press. And I also provided what I found for the guy who
raised this question.
-------------
In /Cambridge Grammar of English/
Both finite and non-finite clauses may follow superlatives. The non-
finite clauses have a similar function to relative clauses.
That's one of the best films I've ever seen.
She's the youngest swimmer to qualify for the Olympics.
They were the fittest team finishing the course.
-------------
In /Practical English Usage/
Superlatives can be followed by an infinitive structure. The meaning
is similar to an identifying relative clause.
He is the oldest athlete ever to win an Olympic gold medal.
( = ... who has ever won ...)
This structure is also common with /first, second, third/ etc, /next,
last, and only/.
Who was the first person to climb Everest without oxygen?
The next to arrive was Mrs Patterson.
She's the only to have won three Nobel prizes.
This structure is only possible when the noun with the superlatives
has a subject relationship with the infinitive.
Is this the first time that you have stayed here?
(Not ... the first time for you to stay here. [The sentence is
crossed out.]
/Time/ is not the subject of /stay/.)
-------------
I also offered what I found on Google books.
-------------
- I was the first person doing camel rides, ....
- I was the first person going from Alaska before Congress to tell
them that the business of depletion was imminent.
- It just so happened that Mr. Corette was the first man going East as
I recall it.
- The instructor gave the signal to start the ascent, and he was the
first man going up.
- She was the first woman coming overland to settle in Oregon and she
bore the first child of white blood.
- The only group qualifying for the unenviable honor is Asian
Americans.
-------------
Another guy was preparing GMAT (Graduate Management Admission Test),
and he found a test question which, after correction, goes : George
Sand (Aurore Lucile Dupin) was one of the first European writers to
consider the rural poor legitimate subjects for literature and portray
these with sympathy and respect in her novels.
("...was one of the first European writers to consider" needs no
correction in the test question.)
Thus he concluded that "Someone is the only/first/etc person Verb-
ing ... " should really be avoided, because GMAT treats formal English
writing. (Is it so? I hold a reservation about what he said.)
What in the world is wrong the sentence with Verb-ing?
Regards
Tacia
---
I hope I make myself understood.
Pat Durkin
news:f7220834-a260-4fba...@y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com
> Hi,
>
> Happy New Year.
>
> I have a question difficult for me to make any conclusion.
>
> My question this time is about
> a. He is the first man to land on the moon.
> b. He is the first man landing on the moon.
>
> The topic was raised on a Taiwanese forum discussing English.
> Some guys on the forum think that (b) is not right or no good, because
> there are few examples on google web.
> What in the world is wrong with (b)?
>
> I think I am doing an objective translation.
There are others here who can give you grammatical explanations. For
me, the matter is "time", or the use of the "-ing" (present continuous,
or present progressive) to express an action that one witnesses as one
speaks or describes the action. The idea is that one witnesses and
narrates the moon landing in real time: "He is the first man landing on
the moon. (He is landing right this moment as we watch the action.)"
Of course, many times we are witnessing the action in the form of a
taped replay, or film. And we know that there is a time delay in the
transmission of the action film from the moon to the earth. In
addition, the emphasis is on the ongoing nature of the action.
The other use of the present tense (a) is sometimes referred to as
historic present tense. The action occurred some time in the past, but
in our narrative we are taking each step in a progression of steps, or
"stills": Man is born. He matures, he learns, he works, he marries, he
grows old. He dies.
Now the continuous or progressive lets the speaker dwell for a moment on
all that may be involved in the "being born", the maturing, the studying
and learning, the struggle, the love and parenting, the aging process,
the dying process.
Tacia
But I really need more of your comments.
a. He is the first man to land on the moon.
b. He is the first man landing on the moon.
c. He is the first man who landed on the moon.
Do they have the same meaning?
According to Ms. Durkin, I gather they are not.
Michael Swan said that "Superlatives can be followed by an infinitive
structure. The meaning
is similar to an identifying relative clause."
Word on grammar books is that an identifying relative clause can be
reduced to Verb-ing form, so I think (c) can be reduced to
(b)...right?
On what grounds would you say (b) and (c) are not possible/plausible?
I happened to find a page on which a native speaker said that (a) 'is
the only natural and plausible sentence,' but he did not give any
explanation.
http://tinyurl.com/7cect6
Regards
Tacia
-----
I hope I do not offend you.
Marius Hancu
> But I really need more of your comments.
>
> a. He is the first man to land on the moon.
> b. He is the first man landing on the moon.
> c. He is the first man who landed on the moon.
>
> Do they have the same meaning?
> According to Ms. Durkin, I gather they are not.
b) is incorrect because IMO it involves some notion of REAL-TIME
action. Pat Durkin has beautifully explained that to you; think about
the use of -ing forms in continous verbs; it makes the action
livelier. Read again her explanation until you understand it. If you
don't, you have problems at some more elementary levels, sorry.
c) to me is correct, but is is a finite (i.e. temporal) verb, locating
the action in past time, which "to land" isn't. "To land," as any non-
finite verb, isn't precisely located in time. Thus c) can't be
equivalent to a).
Marius Hancu
Stephen
Section 471h
Both finite and non-finite clauses may follow superlatives. The non-
DJ
.....
> Tacia wrote:
....
....
>> a. He is the first man to land on the moon.
>> b. He is the first man landing on the moon.
>> c. He is the first man who landed on the moon.
>>
>> Do they have the same meaning?
>> According to Ms. Durkin, I gather they are not.
>
> b) is incorrect because IMO it involves some notion of REAL-TIME
> action. Pat Durkin has beautifully explained that to you; think about
> the use of -ing forms in continous verbs; it makes the action
> livelier. Read again her explanation until you understand it. If you
> don't, you have problems at some more elementary levels, sorry.
>
I failed to see the "incorrect" part you mentioned. Were you referring
to sentence b being incorrect under all possible scenarios, or because
its meaning is not the same as sentence a?
I thought Pat said it quite clearly:
[quote]
... The idea is that one witnesses and narrates the moon landing
in real time: "He is the first man landing on the moon.
(He is landing right this moment as we watch the action.)"
[end quote]
So a proper context for sentence b would be when a reporter/narrator
broadcasting the event live "right at this moment as we watch the
action" (and the time frame would be around 2:56 UTC July 21, 1969).
---------------
What I don't know is whether there are other possible scenarios/proper
contexts (or time frames, maybe) for sentence b to be acceptable.
--
DJ
not a native speaker of English
Atayal
guy who did the google search Tacia mentioned. Please excuse my poor
netique (if it is) as I don't often post on English web forums so I'm
not sure about the customs.
[quote from Pat]
The other use of the present tense (a) is sometimes referred to as
historic present tense. The action occurred some time in the past,
but
in our narrative we are taking each step in a progression of steps, or
"stills": Man is born. He matures, he learns, he works, he marries,
he
grows old. He dies.
[end quote]
Is there any specific examples or guidelines as for which this use of
present tense on past event is appropriate? I've read an article on
Newsweek that narrates past event in this manner. But at other time
I've seen what it seems to me similar narrations but in the past
tense.
> Now the continuous or progressive lets the speaker dwell for a moment on
> all that may be involved in the "being born", the maturing, the studying
> and learning, the struggle, the love and parenting, the aging process,
> the dying process.
[quote from DJ]
... The idea is that one witnesses and narrates the moon landing
in real time: "He is the first man landing on the moon.
(He is landing right this moment as we watch the action.)"
[end quote]
It seems to me that the narrator is implying that at the moment, out
of many guys performing the landing, he is the first one to land. Or
is that not implied?
R H Draney
>
>[quote from Pat]
>The other use of the present tense (a) is sometimes referred to as
>historic present tense. The action occurred some time in the past,
>but
>in our narrative we are taking each step in a progression of steps, or
>"stills": Man is born. He matures, he learns, he works, he marries,
>he
>grows old. He dies.
>[end quote]
>
>Is there any specific examples or guidelines as for which this use of
>present tense on past event is appropriate? I've read an article on
>Newsweek that narrates past event in this manner. But at other time
>I've seen what it seems to me similar narrations but in the past
>tense.
Based upon observations over the last year or two in this newsgroup, it's very
common among native speakers of Choctaw....r
--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"
DJ
....
....
....
> common among native speakers of Choctaw....r
>
Oh no...the summoning begins ....
--
DJ
- It's in my kill file anyway
DJ
....
> [quote from DJ]
> ... The idea is that one witnesses and narrates the moon landing
> in real time: "He is the first man landing on the moon.
> (He is landing right this moment as we watch the action.)"
> [end quote]
>
(I feel like I should say something)
If you read my post carefully, I quoted the above passage from Pat's
post. Pat said it. I'd love to steal her credit, but I can't and shouldn't.
--
DJ
Marius Hancu
> Is there any specific examples or guidelines as for which this use of
> present tense on past event is appropriate? I've read an article on
> Newsweek that narrates past event in this manner. But at other time
> I've seen what it seems to me similar narrations but in the past
> tense.
Both are OK, IMO, in (a).
It depends on how much you want to insist the fact is still valid.
1,524 on "was the first man to"
http://books.google.com/books?q=%22was+the+first+man+to%22&btnG=Search+Books
666 on "is the first man to"
http://books.google.com/books?q=%22is+the+first+man+to%22&btnG=Search+Books
A "to have" construction is possible too:
-----
Pythagoras is the first man to have called himself a lover of wisdom
(philosopher), basing his way of life on a study of nature that became
a religion
The Classical Greek Reader - Page 84
by Kenneth J. Atchity, Rosemary McKenna
------
Marius Hancu
Chuck Riggs
>R H Draney wrote:
>....
>....
>....
>> common among native speakers of Choctaw....r
>>
>
>Oh no...the summoning begins ....
So far, there's not even a sign of smoke.
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland
Marius Hancu
> >> a. He is the first man to land on the moon.
> >> b. He is the first man landing on the moon.
> >> c. He is the first man who landed on the moon.
>
> >> Do they have the same meaning?
> >> According to Ms. Durkin, I gather they are not.
>
> > b) is incorrect because IMO it involves some notion of REAL-TIME
> > action. Pat Durkin has beautifully explained that to you; think about
> > the use of -ing forms in continous verbs; it makes the action
> > livelier. Read again her explanation until you understand it. If you
> > don't, you have problems at some more elementary levels, sorry.
>
> I failed to see the "incorrect" part you mentioned. Were you referring
> to sentence b being incorrect under all possible scenarios, or because
> its meaning is not the same as sentence a?
As a replacement for sentence (a).
Marius Hancu