"destiny's child" -- source of phrase

Dunvegan

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Jun 1, 2004, 3:28:29 PM6/1/04

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Forget about the singing group -- does anyone have a clue to where the
phrase "destiny's child" or "destiny's children" came from?

Evan Kirshenbaum

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Jun 1, 2004, 4:31:35 PM6/1/04

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dunv...@panix.com (Dunvegan) writes:

> Forget about the singing group -- does anyone have a clue to where the
> phrase "destiny's child" or "destiny's children" came from?

I don't think it exists otherwise.

BLACK BEAT: From day one, I have been wondering where you came up
with the name "Destiny's Child"?

La Tavia: We got that name out of the Bible. One day Beyonce's
mom was about to read The Bible and she opened it up to read a
scripture in Isaiah. Our picture fell out. Under our picture in
bold-faced print was the word "destiny". At the time we were
looking for a name, so felt that God was sending us this name. We
found out that a lot groups had the name, so we had "Child", as a
rebirth of Destiny.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~wdhay/blackbeat.htm

The word "destiny" only seems to appear once in Isaiah (not at all in
the KJV), chapter 65, verse 11.

"But as for you who forsake the LORD and forget my holy mountain,
who spread a table for Fortune and fill bowls of mixed wine for
Destiny,

Destiny would seem to not be a good thing to follow, for the verse
goes on

I will destine you for the sword, and you will all bend down for
the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but
you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what
displeases me."

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |There is something fascinating
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |about science. One gets such
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |wholesale returns of conjecture out
|of such a trifling investment of
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |fact.
(650)857-7572 | Mark Twain

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

Ross Howard

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Jun 1, 2004, 5:00:21 PM6/1/04

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On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 13:31:35 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
<kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrought:

That seems a bit harsh, smiting and stuff. After all, it wasn't her
that incurred the Lord's wrath by baring her nipple at the Superbowl.

ObAUE: I wasn't sure about incur as the best collocation for "wrath".
Is there anything better/more common? I'm having a bad memory day, as
well as the bad-edit day I announced this monring. (For example).

--
Ross Howard

Gwilym Calon

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Jun 1, 2004, 5:41:11 PM6/1/04

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"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
news:8yf7yq...@hpl.hp.com...

> I will destine you for the sword, and you will all bend down for
> the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but
> you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what
> displeases me."

Now you're starting to sound like Charles Riggs (and it's scary...).

-------
GC

Dylan Nicholson

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Jun 1, 2004, 6:09:17 PM6/1/04

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"Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
news:8yf7yq...@hpl.hp.com...

> dunv...@panix.com (Dunvegan) writes:
>
> > Forget about the singing group -- does anyone have a clue to where the
> > phrase "destiny's child" or "destiny's children" came from?
>
> I don't think it exists otherwise.
>

There's a book called "Destiny's Children", published in 1979 (by G. M.
Warren).
I'm sure the phrase or something like it has an older history.

Dylan

Donna Richoux

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Jun 1, 2004, 6:52:50 PM6/1/04

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Evan Kirshenbaum <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:

> dunv...@panix.com (Dunvegan) writes:
>
> > Forget about the singing group -- does anyone have a clue to where the
> > phrase "destiny's child" or "destiny's children" came from?
>
> I don't think it exists otherwise.

[Snip various similar]

What no one has mentioned yet is "child of destiny." I think you'll have
much more luck with that one. I turned it up as a title of a 1913 poem,
and a description of Napoleon in an 1835 speech, without half trying.

--

Best -- Donna Richoux

Robert Lieblich

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Jun 1, 2004, 11:15:26 PM6/1/04

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I've noticed a recent trend toward naming girls "Destiny." I doubt
this was the immediate source of the group's name, but it may have
had some resonance.

--
Bob Lieblich
My mother was NOT named Destiny

Peter Moylan

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Jun 1, 2004, 11:46:38 PM6/1/04

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Gwilym Calon infrared:

There, but for the grace of God, goes Charles.

--
Peter Moylan peter at ee dot newcastle dot edu dot au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)

Donna Richoux

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Jun 2, 2004, 3:30:34 AM6/2/04

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Robert Lieblich <Robert....@Verizon.net> wrote:

A little more searching on "child of destiny" showed Dickens used the
phrase in "Barnaby Rudge":

He ... had never considered himself so much the pet and favourite
child of Destiny, or loved that lady so well or with such a calm
and virtuous reliance, in all his life.

It was also the name of a long, unfinished dramatic poem by A.W. Sprague
(died 1862). So it's been in circulation for quite a while.

I wondered "Shakespeare?" but the closest the Oxford Dict. of Quotations
had was this, in "Merry Wives of Windsor":

MISTRESS QUICKLY: Fairies, black, grey, green, and white,
You moonshine revellers and shades of night,
You orphan heirs of fixed destiny,
Attend your office and your quality.

--
Best - Donna Richoux

John O'Flaherty

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Jun 3, 2004, 12:27:37 PM6/3/04

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Ross Howard wrote:

'Incur' seems alright, unless you mean broadly- provoked, evoked,
unleashed, triggered, precipitated.
--
john

Ross Howard

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Jun 3, 2004, 1:13:15 PM6/3/04

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On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 11:27:37 -0500, John O'Flaherty
<quia...@yahoo.com> wrought:

>Ross Howard wrote:

>> That seems a bit harsh, smiting and stuff. After all, it wasn't her
>> that incurred the Lord's wrath by baring her nipple at the Superbowl.
>>
>> ObAUE: I wasn't sure about incur as the best collocation for "wrath".
>> Is there anything better/more common? I'm having a bad memory day, as
>> well as the bad-edit day I announced this monring. (For example).
>
>'Incur' seems alright, unless you mean broadly- provoked, evoked,
>unleashed, triggered, precipitated.

Yes, it looks fine now. When I wrote it though it looked a bit
peculiar.

Still, it's nice to know we can incur things other than debts.

--
Ross Howard

Sara Lorimer

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Jun 3, 2004, 2:35:33 PM6/3/04

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Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:

> dunv...@panix.com (Dunvegan) writes:
>
> > Forget about the singing group -- does anyone have a clue to where the
> > phrase "destiny's child" or "destiny's children" came from?
>
> I don't think it exists otherwise.
>
> BLACK BEAT: From day one, I have been wondering where you came up
> with the name "Destiny's Child"?
>
> La Tavia: We got that name out of the Bible. One day Beyonce's
> mom was about to read The Bible and she opened it up to read a
> scripture in Isaiah. Our picture fell out. Under our picture in
> bold-faced print was the word "destiny". At the time we were
> looking for a name, so felt that God was sending us this name.

To borrow from Christopher Durang: God is silent on the Holocaust, but
he involves himself with the pop music industry?

--
SML
http://pirate-women.com

John Dean

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Jun 3, 2004, 8:12:47 PM6/3/04

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Peter Moylan wrote:
> Gwilym Calon infrared:
>> "Evan Kirshenbaum" <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote in message
>> news:8yf7yq...@hpl.hp.com...
>>> I will destine you for the sword, and you will all bend down for
>>> the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but
>>> you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what
>>> displeases me."
>>
>> Now you're starting to sound like Charles Riggs (and it's scary...).
>
> There, but for the grace of God, goes Charles.

There, but for the grace of Charles, goes G-d.
--
John Dean
Oxford

happyfo...@gmail.com

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Apr 4, 2019, 1:19:01 AM4/4/19

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On Tuesday, 1 June 2004 12:28:29 UTC-7, Dunvegan wrote:
> Forget about the singing group -- does anyone have a clue to where the
> phrase "destiny's child" or "destiny's children" came from?

Waylon Jenning's 1967 album Love of the Common People had a song called Destiny's Child (written by Sonny Curtis).. so its definitely not from a book in 1979 or an shortlived girl group from the 90s.. lol

Lewis

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Apr 4, 2019, 4:16:15 PM4/4/19

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Google books has a hit from 1925

When White Water Bill, gay destiny's child,
Returns from the north with slathers of gold
And scattered his stories like a Viking of old;
Inflated with liquor the miner grew gay,
He swore he would die or be married that day

--
'There's something not right about this,' said Rincewind. 'What's
that?' said the parrot. 'Everything.' --Eric

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Apr 5, 2019, 3:59:52 AM4/5/19

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On 2019-04-04 20:16:08 +0000, Lewis said:

> In message <b8c570d1-3651-4d36...@googlegroups.com>
> happyfo...@gmail.com <happyfo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 1 June 2004 12:28:29 UTC-7, Dunvegan wrote:
>>> Forget about the singing group -- does anyone have a clue to where the
>>> phrase "destiny's child" or "destiny's children" came from?
>
>> Waylon Jenning's 1967 album Love of the Common People had a song
>> called Destiny's Child (written by Sonny Curtis).. so its definitely
>> not from a book in 1979 or an shortlived girl group from the 90s.. lol
>
> Google books has a hit from 1925
>
> When White Water Bill, gay destiny's child,
> Returns from the north with slathers of gold
> And scattered his stories like a Viking of old;
> Inflated with liquor the miner grew gay,
> He swore he would die or be married that day

Hmm. They didn't have single-sex marriage in 1925.

--
athel

Quinn C

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Apr 5, 2019, 1:52:01 PM4/5/19

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* Lewis:

> In message <b8c570d1-3651-4d36...@googlegroups.com> happyfo...@gmail.com <happyfo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 1 June 2004 12:28:29 UTC-7, Dunvegan wrote:
>>> Forget about the singing group -- does anyone have a clue to where the
>>> phrase "destiny's child" or "destiny's children" came from?
>
>> Waylon Jenning's 1967 album Love of the Common People had a song
>> called Destiny's Child (written by Sonny Curtis).. so its definitely
>> not from a book in 1979 or an shortlived girl group from the 90s.. lol
>
> Google books has a hit from 1925
>
> When White Water Bill, gay destiny's child,
> Returns from the north with slathers of gold
> And scattered his stories like a Viking of old;
> Inflated with liquor the miner grew gay,
> He swore he would die or be married that day

I didn't know they had gay marriage back then...

--
We say, 'If any lady or gentleman shall buy this article _____ shall
have it for five dollars.' The blank may be filled with he, she, it,
or they; or in any other manner; and yet the form of the expression
will be too vulgar to be uttered. -- Wkly Jrnl of Commerce (1839)

Tony Cooper

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Apr 5, 2019, 2:19:59 PM4/5/19

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Apr 6, 2019, 2:02:57 PM4/6/19

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Sensitive area but "Billions" has made me used to it.

I attended a meeting at the HQ of my professional body recently. The
chairman's attention was drawn to his constant use of "he" when
referring to company directors, for which he apologised. He then went on
to inform us that the organisation's council, of which he is a member,
had recently approved a change of standard singular pronoun use to
he/she/they. He did not endear himself to anyone present when he said he
thought it should be he/she/it.

--
Laura (emulate St George for email)

Peter T. Daniels

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Apr 6, 2019, 9:13:36 PM4/6/19

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Oh. I thought you were making a joke.

Peter T. Daniels

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Apr 6, 2019, 9:15:21 PM4/6/19

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I use "Q" so as to avoid concord problems.

RH Draney

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Apr 7, 2019, 2:50:59 AM4/7/19

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Yabbut you've got five other distinct pronouns in only fifteen
words...that's pretty damn dense....r