How do you pronounce the word Daesh in English?

[Baker Charles]

How do we pronounce the word Daesh, in English?

Is the "a" long or short?
Is it prounounced day-esh?
Or dash?
Or daysh?

Is the "e" silent or does it affect the pronunciation somehow?

"Jordan’s information minister, Mohammad al-Momani told AFP: Amman was “more determined
than ever to fight the terrorist group *Daesh*,” using another name for Islamic State,
which is also commonly referred to as ISIS."

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/05/shocked-jordanians-rally-behind-king-against-isis-after-video-pilot-killing/

[Baker Charles]

On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 08:51:16 -0600, Baker Charles wrote:

> How do we pronounce the word Daesh, in English?

And, is it just "Daesh" as in the last reference, or "*the* Daesh"
as in this reference?

"Last summer, the Daesh captured large swathes of land in Iraq and Syria,
killing thousands of people in the process."http://www.albawaba.com/news/jordan%E2%80%99s-king-will-not-participate-airstrikes-against-daesh-653092

[Don Phillipson]

"Baker Charles" <bakerc...@example.com> wrote in message
news:b3a8d$54d38364$43da7656$39...@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com...

> How do we pronounce the word Daesh, in English?

> . . .
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/05/shocked-jordanians-rally-behind-king-against-isis-after-video-pilot-killing/

We do not, because Daesh has not yet entered the
English language. It might do in future time, but we
cannot foretell how much its sound as an English loan-word
will approximate the Arabic original.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[Baker Charles]

On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 14:31:45 -0500, Don Phillipson wrote:

> we
> cannot foretell how much its sound as an English loan-word
> will approximate the Arabic original.

Any idea how the Arabic original sounds?

[Dingbat]

I'd guess that it has the vowels of "The ache".

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2015-02-05 14:51:16 +0000, Baker Charles said:

> How do we pronounce the word Daesh, in English?
>
> Is the "a" long or short?
> Is it prounounced day-esh?
> Or dash?
> Or daysh?
>
> Is the "e" silent or does it affect the pronunciation somehow?
>
> "Jordan’s information minister, Mohammad al-Momani told AFP: Amman was
> “more determined
> than ever to fight the terrorist group *Daesh*,”

The only legitimate name, because if you call it the Islamic State or
ISIS you're tacitly admitting it's a state.

I don't know how it's pronounced in English, because I only ever hear
it in French, when its pronounced as dah esh.

> using another name for Islamic State,
> which is also commonly referred to as ISIS."
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/05/shocked-jordanians-rally-behind-king-against-isis-after-video-pilot-killing/
>

--
athel

[musika]

Daesh" is the pronunciation of the acronym for ISIS in Arabic (Dawlat Al
Islam fi Iraq Wa al-Sham) according to CBS News' Jennifer Janisch.

داعش

Google Translate pronounces it as "daash".

--
Ray
UK

[Richard Tobin]

In article <cji03t...@mid.individual.net>,

Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

>The only legitimate name, because if you call it the Islamic State or
>ISIS you're tacitly admitting it's a state.

Not if you sneer in the right place.

-- Richard

[Baker Charles]

On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 20:12:26 +0000, musika wrote:

> Daesh" is the pronunciation of the acronym for ISIS in Arabic (Dawlat Al
> Islam fi Iraq Wa al-Sham) according to CBS News' Jennifer Janisch.

> Google Translate pronounces it as "daash".

Oh, it's an acronym. I had not known that. Thanks.

Daaaaash it is!

thanks.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Based on what knowledge of Arabic?

Secretary of State John Kerry says "Dash."

[Baker Charles]

On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 20:09:58 -0800, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> Secretary of State John Kerry says "Dash."

I don't know what the rules are for foreign acronym pronunciation,
but, it would seem, to me, only two possibilities would fit:
1. Pronounce Daesh the way the Arabs & Semites do, or,
2. Pronounce Daesh the way we would normally pronounce "ae".

Apparently, "ae' is a "ligature", according to Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_words_that_may_be_spelled_with_a_ligature

Googling for how to pronounce the "ae" ligature, in English, I found:
http://www.morewords.com/contains-by-length/ae/
http://www.morewords.com/contains/ae/

Unfortunately, there was only a single example of 'daes' and that was only
at the end of a word (namely sundae), but examples abounded with the
ligature placed in the middle of the word:
hyaenas
leukaemia
maelstrom
paediatric
paesan
phaeton
toxaemia
caesarean
etc.

None seem to be a short 'a' sound though...

[Dr. HotSalt]

On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 11:54:41 AM UTC-8, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2015-02-05 14:51:16 +0000, Baker Charles said:
>
> > How do we pronounce the word Daesh, in English?
> >
> > Is the "a" long or short?
> > Is it prounounced day-esh?
> > Or dash?
> > Or daysh?

Personally, I don't care. I prefer to call them ISIS because they allegedly find it insulting.

> > Is the "e" silent or does it affect the pronunciation somehow?
> >
> > "Jordan's information minister, Mohammad al-Momani told AFP: Amman was
> > "more determined than ever to fight the terrorist group *Daesh*,"
>
> The only legitimate name, because if you call it the Islamic State or
> ISIS you're tacitly admitting it's a state.

That doesn't help. Decompress the acronym Daesh and you get "Dawlat Al
Islam fi Iraq Wa al-Sham" which translates into English as "Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant".

If you wish to de-legitimize them as a State, you might try "wannabe Islamic State" or something similar.

Or ISIS.

> I don't know how it's pronounced in English, because I only ever hear
> it in French, when its pronounced as dah esh.
>
> > using another name for Islamic State,
> > which is also commonly referred to as ISIS."
> >
> > http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/05/shocked-jordanians-rally-behind-king-against-isis-after-video-pilot-killing/

I see that as an encouraging development, *if* Jordan follows through. A push to get rid of ISIS started by an Arab state, hopefully joined by other Arab states, would in the long run be far more effective in decoupling terrorism from Islam not just in actuality but in everyone else's minds.

I've been saying for some time that Islam needs its equivalent of the Protestant Reformation, and it must come from within to stick. This might be the beginning. I just hope it's less messy than the Protestant version.


Dr. HotSalt

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Friday, February 6, 2015 at 11:33:12 AM UTC-5, Baker Charles wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 20:09:58 -0800, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> > Secretary of State John Kerry says "Dash."
>
> I don't know what the rules are for foreign acronym pronunciation,
> but, it would seem, to me, only two possibilities would fit:
> 1. Pronounce Daesh the way the Arabs & Semites do, or,

What does "Arabs & Semites" mean?

[Baker Charles]

On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 13:07:00 -0800, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> What does "Arabs & Semites" mean?

I meant it to mean the people who live in close proximity
to (the) Daesh.

[David Kleinecke]

There is an ayin in the middle which many people can't handle.
I can't - so I would use a glottal stop:

Da'esh

[Peter T. Daniels]

So not tbe Turks, Kurds, Armenians, Turkmens, or Iranians. Ok. But under what
analysis are Arabs not Semites?

[Jerry Friedman]

In writing, how about "Pseudo-Islamic Pseudostate in Iraq and Syria"?

--
Jerry Friedman

[Baker Charles]

On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 20:42:13 -0800, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> So not tbe Turks, Kurds, Armenians, Turkmens, or Iranians. Ok.
> But under what analysis are Arabs not Semites?

I don't really know *what* to call the people who call ISIS
(the) Daesh.

It's the Jordanians, in particular, but I would think the
Iraqis and Syrians and Kurds and Turks and Afgans, and
Persians and Israelis, etc., would also call them (the) Daesh.

What would *you* call that assemblage of peoples?

Does the descriptor "Arabs" encompass them all?

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 2:04:28 AM UTC-5, Baker Charles wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 20:42:13 -0800, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> > So not tbe Turks, Kurds, Armenians, Turkmens, or Iranians. Ok.
> > But under what analysis are Arabs not Semites?
>
> I don't really know *what* to call the people who call ISIS
> (the) Daesh.

"Arabic-speakers."

> It's the Jordanians, in particular, but I would think the
> Iraqis and Syrians and Kurds and Turks and Afgans, and
> Persians and Israelis, etc., would also call them (the) Daesh.

I don't know what they are called in Kurdish, Persian, or Pashto (those
are some of the Iranian languages), or in Turkish (a Turkic language),
or in Hebrew (a Semitic language like Arabic).

> What would *you* call that assemblage of peoples?

Modern Middle Easterners.

> Does the descriptor "Arabs" encompass them all?

No.

[Baker Charles]

On Sat, 07 Feb 2015 04:58:42 -0800, Peter T. Daniels wrote:

> Modern Middle Easterners.

OK. So the goal is to understand how the Modern Middle Easterners
pronounce the acronym (the) Daesh.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Since the acronym is of an Arabic phrase, it's pronounced as in Arabic.

With the complication that it contains one of those sounds that very few
languages other than Arabic have.

Other languages presumably use other names for the group. English has ISIL
and ISIS, which are acronyms of English phrases.

There are probably phrases in all the other different languages you named,
none of which are Arabic.

[mr.a.j...@gmail.com]

I just heard it pronounced: Die - Shh.. (all one word without the gap)

[just...@gmail.com]

With Turkish vowels it would be pronounced "DAW-esh."

[Jack Campin]

just...@gmail.com wrote:

> With Turkish vowels it would be pronounced "DAW-esh."

1. It's an Arabic word, so why would you want to pronounce it
as in Turkish?

2. Turkish doesn't have an "aw" sound. "a" always sounds as
in BrE "father".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[laythd...@gmail.com]

The A in Daesh is a long vowel and pronounces like "Car"
It is pronounces as "da" then a very short stop then "ish".

Da'ish
D is for dawla: state
A is for Islamic (in Arabic is written with A)
The i stands for the glottic letter Arabic ع, for Iraq
Sh: sham or the Levant, the traditional name for Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan.

Hope this helps

[laythd...@gmail.com]

Linguistically, Arabic evolved from Arameic, which itself evolved from the old Akkadian language (spoken in Babylonia)
They all belong to a group of languages called the Semetic languages. Like the indo-Arian languages family.

People of the Middle East used to speak many Semetic languages before all nations became arabised after Islam.
Semetic languages have a lot in common. Now all "Arab" nations speak Arabic with accents reflecting their old languages. However, the written classic Arabic is the same all over the Arab world.

Other existing Semetic languages are Hebrew and Maltese. They are considered cousins.

The terms describe languages and maybe the cultures that come with them & not race or people. Arabs could be genetically originating from anywhere. You find the blond, white, African, or the majority Mediterranean looking ones.

[laythd...@gmail.com]

Daesh group loath the term Daesh, ISIS and ISIL because they prefer the IS
They see themselves as the Islamic State as the grew out from when they started. This is why ordinary people in the Middle East like to call them Daesh to belittle them and denounce their self claimed status.

[laythd...@gmail.com]

Also Daesh is very similar to the Iraqi description for an Arse (donkey). It is Jahish. Can u see why they loath it.

[bosod...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 6:51:19 AM UTC-8, Baker Charles wrote:
> How do we pronounce the word Daesh, in English?
>
> Is the "a" long or short?
> Is it prounounced day-esh?
> Or dash?
> Or daysh?
>

> Is the "e" silent or does it affect the pronunciation somehow?
>
> "Jordan's information minister, Mohammad al-Momani told AFP: Amman was "more determined

> than ever to fight the terrorist group *Daesh*," using another name for Islamic State,

> which is also commonly referred to as ISIS."
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/05/shocked-jordanians-rally-behind-king-against-isis-after-video-pilot-killing/

R-A-P-E P-I-L-L-A-G-E M-U-R D-E-R I-N C-O-R-P O-R A-T-E-D

[Peter Moylan]

Finally there is some point in resurrecting ancient threads. When this
thread ran eight months ago, nobody seemed to have an answer.

I'm used to seeing the word written as Da'esh, where the apostrophe
marks the glottal stop that separates the two syllables.

Both our present Prime Minister and our deposed Prime Minister pronounce
it "dash", in one syllable. What were their advisors thinking of?

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 7:00:05 PM UTC-4, laythd...@gmail.com wrote:

> Linguistically, Arabic evolved from Arameic, which itself evolved from the old Akkadian language (spoken in Babylonia)

Don't believe the gmailer.

> They all belong to a group of languages called the Semetic languages. Like the indo-Arian languages family.

I don't understand why "Semetic" is such a popular misspelling.

"Indo-Arian" is perhaps some Eastern Christian heresy.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 9:15:33 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 2015-Oct-12 09:49, laythd...@gmail.com wrote:
> > The A in Daesh is a long vowel and pronounces like "Car"
> > It is pronounces as "da" then a very short stop then "ish".
> >
> > Da'ish
> > D is for dawla: state
> > A is for Islamic (in Arabic is written with A)
> > The i stands for the glottic letter Arabic ع, for Iraq
> > Sh: sham or the Levant, the traditional name for Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan.
> >
> > Hope this helps
>
> Finally there is some point in resurrecting ancient threads. When this
> thread ran eight months ago, nobody seemed to have an answer.
>
> I'm used to seeing the word written as Da'esh, where the apostrophe
> marks the glottal stop that separates the two syllables.

It's not a glottal stop, it's an `ayin (as in `arab).

> Both our present Prime Minister and our deposed Prime Minister pronounce
> it "dash", in one syllable. What were their advisors thinking of?

That few non-Arabs can pronounce an `ayin.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Most journalists and politicians in France pronounce it (in French) as
two syllables. However, our beloved leader pronounces it in one, much
like your own beloved leader.


--
athel

[Whiskers]

In the UK, politicians and the press generally refer to it as "ISIS"
/ʌɪsɪs/ or "ISIL" /ʌɪsɪl/ or "Islamic State". This may be because
that's what 'they' want to be called in English.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Robert Bannister]

I liked this sentence in Wiki:

"However, often changes in adjoining vowels testify to the former
presence of a pharyngeal or epiglottal articulation. As well, it may be
used as a shibboleth to identify the social background of a speaker, as
Mizrahim and Arabs tend to use the more traditional glottal stop in
almost all cases."

--
Robert Bannister
Perth, Western Australia

[Robert Bannister]

In other words, playing their game for them.

[Whiskers]

Getting an interview can be tricky if you have a record of insulting
them. There are so many parties involved in the troubles there that
it's quite important to be sure of which party you're referring to.

[Robert Bannister]

Absolutely, and yet too many people seem to forget that the Muslim
communities are our best weapon against allegedly Muslim terrorists.
Especially in catching their own young people early before they get
turned completely. Of course, the bombing, which still seems far too
indiscriminate to me, doesn't help, and the entry of the Russians makes
it worse.

[Whiskers]

'The West' has a pretty ghastly record in 'the Middle East' since the
start of the 20th century - and has often done more harm than good over
the past millennium. Perhaps it's about time the people born there were
allowed to sort things out for themselves without foreign interference.

[David Kleinecke]

But there's all that lovely oil.

[Whiskers]

It probably wouldn't do us any harm to convert our sugary and oily crops
into substitutes for oil diesel and petrol. Ethanol is a pretty good
fuel and we certainly know how to make that. Petrol from coal was the
usual thing in apartheid South Africa. Synthetic petrol as a by-product
of some chemical processes used to be on sale in the '70s in north-west
England.

[snide...@gmail.com]

Lower energy density, and takes more energy to produce than you get back.
Efficient bacteria to improve fermentation is an active area of research.

> Petrol from coal was the
> usual thing in apartheid South Africa. Synthetic petrol as a by-product
> of some chemical processes used to be on sale in the '70s in north-west
> England.

And evidently it's expensive, even when you factor in military costs.

/dps

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Whiskers skrev:

> It probably wouldn't do us any harm to convert our sugary and
> oily crops into substitutes for oil diesel and petrol.

Perhaps not us = well-to.do people, but it hurts poor people
because it jolts the price of their basic foods - as it already
has done.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 1:37:50 PM UTC-4, Whiskers Catwheezel wrote:

> It probably wouldn't do us any harm to convert our sugary and oily crops
> into substitutes for oil diesel and petrol. Ethanol is a pretty good
> fuel and we certainly know how to make that. Petrol from coal was the
> usual thing in apartheid South Africa. Synthetic petrol as a by-product
> of some chemical processes used to be on sale in the '70s in north-west
> England.

The ethanol lobby caused the price of meat to soar, as feed corn was diverted
to the ethanol industry.

[David Kleinecke]

But that was just a power play by corn growers who required the ethanol
be made from corn rather than any of a myraid of other sources.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

It might not do you or me any harm, but the conversion of much of the
Mid-West of the USA to ethanol production is already doing enormous
harm to people who depend on agriculture to produce cheap food.

> Ethanol is a pretty good
> fuel and we certainly know how to make that. Petrol from coal was the
> usual thing in apartheid South Africa. Synthetic petrol as a by-product
> of some chemical processes used to be on sale in the '70s in north-west
> England.


--

athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

OK. That's the point I was trying to make before I saw you had already made it.


--
athel

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Athel Cornish-Bowden skrev:

> OK. That's the point I was trying to make before I saw you had
> already made it.

No problem. I know how usenet works.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[Peter T. Daniels]

Which was after I had made it. Bertel was not at fault, but Athel accorded priority wrongly.

Isn't priority significant in "enzyme kinematics"?

[Charles Bishop]

In article‭ <‬slrnn1vp3a.10f.catwheezel@ID-107770‭.‬user.individual.net‭>,‬
‭ ‬Whiskers‭ <‬catwh...@operamail.com‭> ‬wrote‭:‬

‭> ‬On 2015-10-15‭, ‬David Kleinecke‭ <‬dklei...@gmail.com‭> ‬wrote‭:‬
‭> > ‬On Thursday‭, ‬October 15‭, ‬2015‭ ‬at 5:08:31‭ ‬AM UTC-7‭, ‬Whiskers Catwheezel‭ ‬
‭> > ‬wrote‭:‬
‭> >> ‬On 2015-10-15‭, ‬Robert Bannister‭ <‬rob...@clubtelco.com‭> ‬wrote‭:‬
‭> >> > ‬On 14/10/2015‭ ‬7:51‭ ‬PM‭, ‬Whiskers wrote‭:‬
‭> >> >> ‬On 2015-10-13‭, ‬Robert Bannister‭ <‬rob...@clubtelco.com‭> ‬wrote‭:‬
‭> >> >>> ‬On 12/10/2015‭ ‬9:59‭ ‬PM‭, ‬Whiskers wrote‭:‬
‭> >> >>>> ‬On 2015-10-11‭, ‬laythd...@gmail.com‭ <‬laythd...@gmail.com‭> ‬wrote‭:‬

‭> >> >>>>> ‬The A in Daesh is a long vowel and pronounces like‭ "‬Car‭" ‬It is
‭> >> >>>>> ‬pronounces as‭ "‬da‭" ‬then a very short stop then‭ "‬ish‭".‬
‭> >> >>>>>‬

‭> >> >>>>> ‬Da'ish D is for dawla‭: ‬state A is for Islamic‭ (‬in Arabic is written
‭> >> >>>>> ‬with A‭) ‬The i stands for the glottic letter Arabic‭ ‬ع‭, ‬for Iraq Sh‭:‬
‭> >> >>>>> ‬sham or the Levant‭, ‬the traditional name for Syria‭, ‬Lebanon‭,‬
‭> >> >>>>> ‬Palestine and Jordan‭.‬
‭> ‬‮>> >>>>>‬
‭> >> >>>>> ‬Hope this helps
‭> ‬‮>> >>>>‬
‭> >> >>>> ‬In the UK‭, ‬politicians and the press generally refer to it as‭ "‬ISIS‭"‬
‭> >> >>>> /??‬s?s‭/ ‬or‭ "‬ISIL‭" /??‬s?l‭/ ‬or‭ "‬Islamic State‭". ‬This may be because
‭> >> >>>> ‬that's what‭ '‬they‭' ‬want to be called in English‭.‬
‭> ‬‮>> >>>>‬
‭> >> >>> ‬In other words‭, ‬playing their game for them‭.‬
‭> ‬‮>> >>‬
‭> >> >> ‬Getting an interview can be tricky if you have a record of insulting
‭> >> >> ‬them‭. ‬There are so many parties involved in the troubles there that
‭> >> >> ‬it's quite important to be sure of which party you're referring to‭.‬
‭> ‬‮>> >>‬
‭> >> > ‬Absolutely‭, ‬and yet too many people seem to forget that the Muslim‭ ‬
‭> >> > ‬communities are our best weapon against allegedly Muslim terrorists‭. ‬
‭> >> > ‬Especially in catching their own young people early before they get‭ ‬
‭> >> > ‬turned completely‭. ‬Of course‭, ‬the bombing‭, ‬which still seems far too‭ ‬
‭> >> > ‬indiscriminate to me‭, ‬doesn't help‭, ‬and the entry of the Russians makes‭ ‬
‭> >> > ‬it worse‭.‬
‭> ‬‮>> ‬
‭> >> '‬The West‭' ‬has a pretty ghastly record in‭ '‬the Middle East‭' ‬since the

‭> >> ‬start of the 20th century‭ - ‬and has often done more harm than good over

‭> >> ‬the past millennium‭. ‬Perhaps it's about time the people born there were
‭> >> ‬allowed to sort things out for themselves without foreign interference‭.‬
‭> ‬‮> ‬
‭> > ‬But there's all that lovely oil‭.‬
‭> ‬
‭> ‬It probably wouldn't do us any harm to convert our sugary and oily crops
‭> ‬into substitutes for oil diesel and petrol‭. ‬Ethanol is a pretty good
‭> ‬fuel and we certainly know how to make that‭. ‬Petrol from coal was the
‭> ‬usual thing in apartheid South Africa‭. ‬Synthetic petrol as a by-product

‭> ‬of some chemical processes used to be on sale in the‭ '‬70s in north-west

‭> ‬England‭.‬

Ethanol isn't pretty good fuel‭. ‬Its addition to gasoline in CA during‭ ‬
the summer months costs me an additional‭ ‬~$0.30‭/‬gallon and drops my gas‭ ‬
milage just so ADM can increase its bottom line at my expense‭.‬

You could probably design an engine to run on it‭ (‬been done already‭?) ‬
but it wouldn't have the efficiency of modern engines‭.‬

‭-- ‬
charles

[Whiskers]

Corn is a stupid crop to use for fuel; there are plenty of things that
people can't (eg wood) or shouldn't (eg sugar) eat that can be turned
into ethanol. Although I understand in the USA quite a lot of corn ends
up as 'corn syrup' and contributes to the girth of many residents -
without which they'd be much healthier. Land that can't profitably grow
food should be considered for growing fuel crops; recycling of waste is
also important. Sensible legislation would of course help.

Used cooking oil can easily be made into diesel fuel, although other
sources would be needed too to supply the current vehicle fleet.

[Whiskers]

That's a matter of stupid legislation, probably influenced by a 'farm
lobby'.

>> Ethanol is a pretty good
>> fuel and we certainly know how to make that. Petrol from coal was the
>> usual thing in apartheid South Africa. Synthetic petrol as a by-product
>> of some chemical processes used to be on sale in the '70s in north-west
>> England.
>
>


--

[snide...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, October 17, 2015 at 6:53:38 AM UTC-7, Whiskers Catwheezel wrote:
> On 2015-10-16, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
> > On 2015-10-15 17:37:46 +0000, Whiskers said:

> >> It probably wouldn't do us any harm to convert our sugary and oily crops
> >> into substitutes for oil diesel and petrol.
> >
> > It might not do you or me any harm, but the conversion of much of the
> > Mid-West of the USA to ethanol production is already doing enormous
> > harm to people who depend on agriculture to produce cheap food.
>
> That's a matter of stupid legislation, probably influenced by a 'farm
> lobby'.

Well, yes, but corn is one of the easier crops to turn into ethanol.
Turning waste material (stalks, for instance) or saw grass or other non-food
material into ethanol is very inefficient because you have to break the cellulose
and/or lignin into sugars that can be fermented, and then do the fermentaion.
Making this more efficient is an active area of research,
largely involving studying the critters that break down cellulose,
and the chemical steps they use.


Brazil has an advantage, AIUI, in their ethanol production in that sugar cane waste still has a lot of sugars readily fermentable.

/dps

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

snide...@gmail.com skrev:

> Making this more efficient is an active area of research,
> largely involving studying the critters that break down
> cellulose, and the chemical steps they use.

Aren't they also researching into just letting them do the job?

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[snide...@gmail.com]

That tends to be too slow. What they are researching is making the critters
more efficient or faster. Expect GMOs.

Thee is also research into solar-powered fuel synthesis,
which includes both enhancing natural photosynthesis
and with non-biological photosynthesis
(catalyst research).

/dps

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2015-10-19 22:11:57 +0000, snide...@gmail.com said:

> On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> snide...@gmail.com skrev:
>>
>>> Making this more efficient is an active area of research,
>>> largely involving studying the critters that break down
>>> cellulose, and the chemical steps they use.
>>
>> Aren't they also researching into just letting them do the job?
>
> That tends to be too slow. What they are researching is making the critters
> more efficient or faster. Expect GMOs.

Cellulases exist, but, as you say, they tend to be very slow. God,
otherwise known as natural selection, intended cellulose to be very
resistant to attack by anything except strong acids and fire. I don't
see a solution to this any time soon. (Incidentally, I have colleagues
who work on cellulases.)

>
> Thee is also research into solar-powered fuel synthesis,
> which includes both enhancing natural photosynthesis
> and with non-biological photosynthesis
> (catalyst research).

The best non-biological catalysts require platinum or palladium, both
vastly too expensive to be used on a large scale. I have more hope for
biomimetic catalysts based on nickel or cobalt, which are cheap and
abundant enough.


--
athel

[Richard Tobin]

In article <d8msrr...@mid.individual.net>,

Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

>Cellulases exist, but, as you say, they tend to be very slow.

>[...]

>I don't see a solution to this any time soon.

Perhaps we could accelerate them to near the speed of light while
they are working.

-- Richard

[Lewis]

In message <d8msrr...@mid.individual.net>

I heard this week about a process called plasma gasification which uses
a plasma torch to 'burn' trash. There is no combustion as the
temperatures are far too high for that, but the process renders
materials (trash in this case) down to its component elements.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_gasification>

The trouble with using it on a wide scale appears to be running out of
garbage to use for a power source.

Should handle cellulose.

--
I hate people who pronounce it "vunerable." And you can't correct them
because they're so vulnerable.

[douglas...@gmail.com]

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 6:59:13 AM UTC-7, Whiskers Catwheezel wrote:

The name Daesh is important because it de-legitimatizes ISIS as a state.
While DAESH is the Arabic acronym for ISIL, it also spells a word that is only one letter from another Arabic word with the following meanings.

Daesh is an Arabic word in its own right (rather than an acronym) meaning ‘a group of bigots who impose their will on others’
That it can be ‘differently conjugated’ to mean either the phrase above or ‘to trample and crush’
That one of the words in the acronym also means ‘to trample or crush’
That it is an insult or swearword in its own right
That is has different meanings in the plural form
- From Arabic translator Alice Guthrie

So Daesh is insulting to ISIL/ISIS and an important propaganda tool to those opposing the newly created Caliphate.

[daisyel...@gmail.com]

Watch what you call a heresy. Arians are legit to Arians

[Dr. HotSalt]

Is there a pronunciation of "daesh" that emphasizes these negative aspects to Arabic ears?


Dr. HotSalt

[jezz...@gmail.com]

You made a pretty big mistake here, so I just thought I'd clarify for anyone else that was reading.

The sentence JUST BEFORE the part you quoted is this:
"The main misapprehensions about the word currently circulating in our media boil down to the following list:"

So all those things you quoted are false.

Have a look at the original article if you actually want to know. https://www.freewordcentre.com/blog/2015/02/daesh-isis-media-alice-guthrie/

[Peter Moylan]

On 2015-Nov-17 02:08, daisyel...@gmail.com wrote:

> Watch what you call a heresy. Arians are legit to Arians

Again, a NNTP-Posting-Host that appears to be unrelated to Google, and
no quoted context. On the other hand, this is not a particularly ancient
thread.

Are Aries people known for being heretics?

Sorry, scrap that. I've just looked up the word, and it seems that
Arians are adherents of a 4th-century heresy. Nothing to do with
astrology. Perhaps I would have known that if I'd had the patience to go
through the old messages.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 07:08:35 -0800 (PST), daisyel...@gmail.com
wrote:

>Watch what you call a heresy. Arians are legit to Arians

Who is the "you" that you refer to?


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[melvin....@gmail.com]

> I see that as an encouraging development, *if* Jordan follows through. A push to get rid of ISIS started by an Arab state, hopefully joined by other Arab states, would in the long run be far more effective in decoupling terrorism from Islam not just in actuality but in everyone else's minds.
>
> I've been saying for some time that Islam needs its equivalent of the Protestant Reformation, and it must come from within to stick. This might be the beginning. I just hope it's less messy than the Protestant version.
>
>
> Dr. HotSalt

Actually, pretty much every Arab state is pushing to get rid of Daaesh and has been right from the start. As we speak it is being bombed by the air forces of Jordan, Saudi & UAE. Maybe even Qatar, I am not sure.
The one universal thing that the nations on all sides of the Syrian conflict agree on is their loathing of Daaesh. It is anaethma to Sunni & Shia alike. And every other middle eastern group.
Virtually every major islamic school of though repudiates them. That should be obvious as it is a complete perversion of islamic thought.

If anything you could think of them as a reformation movement - except that it is attempting to reform backwards.

[Dingbat]

Egypt's Al-Azhar issued a statement Dec. 11, 2014, refusing to declare the Islamic State (IS) apostates. "No believer can be declared an apostate, regardless of his sins," it read.
Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/02/azhar-egypt-radicals-islamic-state-apostates.html

[David Kleinecke]

But, of course, Da'ish denies that "No believer can be declared an apostate, regardless of his sins".

[occam]

On 17/11/2015 00:36, jezz...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> You made a pretty big mistake here, so I just thought I'd clarify for anyone else that was reading.
>
> The sentence JUST BEFORE the part you quoted is this:
> "The main misapprehensions about the word currently circulating in our media boil down to the following list:"
>
> So all those things you quoted are false.
>
> Have a look at the original article if you actually want to know. https://www.freewordcentre.com/blog/2015/02/daesh-isis-media-alice-guthrie/
>

Thank you. That is a pretty big blunder of an omission, when quoting a
'source'. But I suspect it will not halt the urban myth from making the
rounds for quite a few years to come.

[goodwi...@gmail.com]

11/23/25
Our Doofus Secretary of State, John Kerry, pronounced it as Dash, this morning on TV. So you know that is wrong.
--Ken Goodwin, Columbus, Ohio, USA.

[Peter Moylan]

Our last two Prime Ministers do the same. I suspect that their staffers
would find it too embarrassing to correct them. To their credit, though,
I've never heard them say nucular.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Peter Moylan skrev:

> Our last two Prime Ministers do the same. I suspect that their staffers
> would find it too embarrassing to correct them. To their credit, though,
> I've never heard them say nucular.

I suggest that we call the group PIS - PseudoIslamicSubjects.
That is easy to pronounce.

--
Bertel, Kolt, Denmark

[pissednf...@gmail.com]

That is the purpose! They have NO RESPECT for human life ,dignity, or tolerance of religion. Even Muslims that do not join them in "their" idea of jehad. The name Daesh has been designated by a Syrian and now the worlds Heads of State follow another Muslims lead in naming & defining the group that carried out such horrible acts against humanity.