Why don't more people post here?
Madmanmoxie
understand why more people don't love Will and Grace, and especially
why this newsgroup isn't full of W&G fans.
This show is hilarious. It is my favourite sitcom by far. I love Buffy
and Angel and I have a real soft spot for Frasier (I also kinda like
Friends) but Will and Grace is *easily* the best sitcom I have ever
seen.
Why do you think it is that this sitcom doesn't attract the same fan
loyalty as other shows? Clearly millions of people watch it. I hope it
isn't because of the homosexuality.
Greg Coulter
University of Oxford, England
Tim
"Madmanmoxie" <madma...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:e98446d2.04050...@posting.google.com...
> I'm a UK viewer who has watched all six seasons and I just *cannot*
> understand why more people don't love Will and Grace, and especially
> why this newsgroup isn't full of W&G fans.
Well, after seeing how the current season unfolded, I have to admit I'm not
much of a fan anymore. This past season has been dull. As I told some
friends of mine recently, it's hard to believe there is a show with 2 gay
characters and a semi-regular Monty Python alum and I have no desire to tune
in regularly.
On the bright side, Friends has finally been put out of its misery, so
hopefully someone will now notice how bad W&G has become and work towards
fixing it.
Tim
Joseph
>On the bright side, Friends has finally been put out of its misery, so
>hopefully someone will now notice how bad W&G has become and work towards
>fixing it.
Well, maybe the Brits may be lucky and get the latest and greatest
Thursday replacement for the sitcoms the really witty "Aprentice"
where we get to see a multi-millionaire fire someone each week. I'm
sure you folks would find that very amusing.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
remove NONO from .NONOcom to reply
Ivan IV
"Tim" <ttenc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2g2uvhF...@uni-berlin.de...
>
> Well, after seeing how the current season unfolded, I have to admit I'm
not
> much of a fan anymore. This past season has been dull. As I told some
> friends of mine recently, it's hard to believe there is a show with 2 gay
> characters and a semi-regular Monty Python alum and I have no desire to
tune
> in regularly.
>
Exactly my thoughts. The finale of season 6 really stank. As somebody on
other list said - the funniest bit was the one with JLo, how sad is that? It
went downhill in season 5, IMO.
Ivan
Tim
news:5ppp90pvqvcaoa4ia...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 7 May 2004 22:28:04 -0400, "Tim" <ttenc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On the bright side, Friends has finally been put out of its misery, so
> >hopefully someone will now notice how bad W&G has become and work towards
> >fixing it.
>
> Well, maybe the Brits may be lucky and get the latest and greatest
> Thursday replacement for the sitcoms the really witty "Aprentice"
> where we get to see a multi-millionaire fire someone each week. I'm
> sure you folks would find that very amusing.
I'm not British, but I do know that they already have a non-comedic,
business based replacement over there for the sitcom: It's called "The
Office."
Tim, who is a fan of Britcoms, but not the terrible ones like "the Office"
or "Keeping Up Appearances..."
D C
since Debra Messing has been pregnant, Karen has of course been used
even more.
I LOVE the Karen character. She makes the show awesome. But I do think
they have relied on her sharp one-liners to the point where she is
starting to almost get a little passe.
And was there even a mention of Jack or Will's new boyfriends on the
season finale? I missed the first five minutes of the show.
P.S. They kind of went into JUMP THE SHARK territory with Karen marrying
who she did.
Since John Cleese is so remembered for his Monty Python days, he stands
out like a gimmicky ploy, a sore thumb, thus jumping that shark in a
way. It's an unredeemable move for the show to go off in that direction
I think. He is just too associated with Monty Python, and it is hard
therefore for the audience to get into his new character easily.
Ivan IV
"D C" <wund...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16973-409...@storefull-3193.bay.webtv.net...
> P.S. They kind of went into JUMP THE SHARK territory with Karen marrying
> who she did.
> Since John Cleese is so remembered for his Monty Python days, he stands
> out like a gimmicky ploy, a sore thumb, thus jumping that shark in a
> way. It's an unredeemable move for the show to go off in that direction
> I think. He is just too associated with Monty Python, and it is hard
> therefore for the audience to get into his new character easily.
Is Cleese to come back again? I think the idea was Karen getting a divorce -
she said it at the end. So in a new season they can just say it already
happened. Same with Grace.
And no, they did not mention Jack's or Will's BFs. They may be over, too.
Ivan
Madmanmoxie
They do mention them, in the teaser:
JACK: I still don't think it's fair. Why does Grace get to bring her husband
and we don't get to bring our boyfriends?
KAREN: Oh come on honey, you know what would happen. You gals'd get all
misty-eyed at my wedding, want to do it yourselves and put me in the awkward
position of having to come out against gay marriage.
Greg Coulter
LadySycamore
I think it's more of the issue of Usenet and not the show. I know many
people who either don't care for the Usenet format (trolls and such), or
those who have been Usenet users for years, and are now tired of dealing
with it (and have discovered other formats and boards).
--
~LadySycamore~
Co-Administrator
dialyze.org: For renal patients by renal patients
http://dialyze.org/forums/index.php
"Until you have walked in my shoes, you do NOT have the right to tell me
what route to walk".
Dr. George Keller
El Ciberbosque:
"Sycamore's next step in the quest for world domination"
http://www.ciberbosque.org/index.php
Anubis
seasons. The homosexuality isn't the problem - It's bad writing. Then
again, how much can you really do with the quartet as it stands? You've got
two gay men, an ambiguous bi-curious female character and one neurotic
straight character. They've covered just about every topic short of Will
rimming Jack.
Second, I don't think it's any small coincidence that the shows
ratings/quality slipped as Debra Messing's pregnancy advanced. Let's face
it, she's the draw of the show for the general viewing public (no offense to
fans of the show's other characters, it's just the way it is.)
I think NBC is going to be lucky if they can milk one more mediocre season
out of the show. It just doesn't have the staying power of a show like
Friends or Frazier.
D C
wrote lots of material about Grace "eating too much" and not wanting to
get up to go the refrigerator herself, and sitting down on the couch
alot, etc.
It was sort of cute for them to do that instead of just writing the
character as being pregnant. It was an interesting writing approach for
dealing with Debra's real-lfe pregnancy.
It is just that I kept focusing on her and saying to myself "Yeah, she's
pregnant." And that pulled me out of the moment, so to speak, and out of
the Grace character, since Grace is NOT supposed to be pregnant. It was
just a little hard to suspend disbelief, even with the funny writing
about her sitting around alot that I mentioned above.
D C
Marrying Grace off .
ashboe
"Tim" <ttenc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2g5frsF...@uni-berlin.de...
Tim
"ashboe" <ddd555...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c7u00d$qh$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Bad news, 'The Office' finished after two series
Sounds like good news to me! Sadly, NBC is going to attempt an American
version. No doubt it will suck as bad as their Coupling rehash.
Tim
Anubis
> Another JUMP THE SHARK SITUATION on his show:
>
> Marrying Grace off .
Honestly, marrying her off could have been a very smart, fun thing to do -
But I think choosing a celebrity face for her husband was a HUGE mistake
(you know the marriage is going to be written out because Harry has better
things to do than occasional guest shots on W&G.) I think the writers went
a little over the top with having Wil act like such a brat after learning of
the marriage, too.
I think they jumped the shark with the whole "lets get pregnant" thing
between Wil and Grace, too.
Stan's death is another one ...
And Jack's son ...
Jennifer Lopez ...
The list goes on.
If I were gay, I think I would be insulted by the direction the show is
taking. Turning the players into caricatures and surrendering to the usual
stereotypes is a good way to kill the show. Wil was the saving element of
the show (from the standpoint of a hetero guy watching the show.) I have
gay friends, and it was nice to see Wil portray his character in a more
serious way - Now he's turning into "Jack Junior" (just listen to the
dialogue in the last episode and you'll see what I mean.)
Ivan IV
news:POWdnRnOSP8...@bright.net...
> "D C" <wund...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:16973-40A...@storefull-3193.bay.webtv.net...
> > Another JUMP THE SHARK SITUATION on his show:
> >
> > Marrying Grace off .
>
> Honestly, marrying her off could have been a very smart, fun thing to do -
> But I think choosing a celebrity face for her husband was a HUGE mistake
> (you know the marriage is going to be written out because Harry has better
> things to do than occasional guest shots on W&G.) I think the writers
went
> a little over the top with having Wil act like such a brat after learning
of
> the marriage, too.
>
I do not know if it would work better if they chose somebody else. I think
that the marriage was a bad move. As I see it, the reason why W&G were
together was that they were two losers who had nobody else to be with than
each other. Having the husband as a regular cast member would kill the show
completely, IMO. Not that it's much alive now.
> I think they jumped the shark with the whole "lets get pregnant" thing
> between Wil and Grace, too.
I don't think so. They saw their lives are empty and wanted to fill it with
something that would give some sense. Maybe not exactly a sitcom material,
but not that much out of character, I think.
> Stan's death is another one ...
Yes, I agree with this one. Not that it was a shark jumping moment, but that
it was completelly unnecessary. Scenes "with" Stan were always a lot of fun
and they did not require any actor. Authors probably thought there would be
more material with Karen being a widow than a wife, but if this was the
reason, they failed.
> Jennifer Lopez ...
Not just Lopez, it's their approach "let's celebrity it up". They have some
bloody celebrity in almost every episode, which makes authors to write some
lame scripts to get them in.
Another shark jumping moment for me (that's a lot of sharks for one show :-)
was Jack giving up acting and pursuing his nursing career.
> taking. Turning the players into caricatures and surrendering to the
usual
> stereotypes is a good way to kill the show. Wil was the saving element of
> the show (from the standpoint of a hetero guy watching the show.) I have
> gay friends, and it was nice to see Wil portray his character in a more
> serious way - Now he's turning into "Jack Junior" (just listen to the
> dialogue in the last episode and you'll see what I mean.)
Stereotypes are not bad as such. Stereotypes are everywhere on TV. Jack has
been a stereotype from the very beginning and it was quite amusing. It's the
moment when authors make the persons caricatures of themselves. When they
rely on actors that with their antics they can make shit into fabulous. Or
that if they throw in a celebrity we all get weak in the knees, or
something. Methinks authors ran out of themes in a given situation and they
are not willing to move elsewhere.
Ivan
Joyce
says...
> I do not know if it would work better if they chose somebody else. I think
> that the marriage was a bad move. As I see it, the reason why W&G were
> together was that they were two losers who had nobody else to be with than
> each other. Having the husband as a regular cast member would kill the show
> completely, IMO. Not that it's much alive now.
Here in the Netherlands, Leo is in Africa right now, and hopefully he stays there forever.
I do not like his character and I do not like Harry C. Jr. as an actor.
He´s boring.
> I don't think so. They saw their lives are empty and wanted to fill it with
> something that would give some sense. Maybe not exactly a sitcom material,
> but not that much out of character, I think.
I liked that part too, and I really wished they hadn´t quit that
subject so suddenly.
> > Stan's death is another one ...
Argh, spoiler for me!! ;-))
Stan is not dead here yet.
> Yes, I agree with this one. Not that it was a shark jumping moment, but that
> it was completelly unnecessary. Scenes "with" Stan were always a lot of fun
> and they did not require any actor. Authors probably thought there would be
> more material with Karen being a widow than a wife, but if this was the
> reason, they failed.
I can imagine. It´s funny to see her still having the idea that she is
cheating on Stan, even though they´re separated.
> > Jennifer Lopez ...
> Not just Lopez, it's their approach "let's celebrity it up". They have some
> bloody celebrity in almost every episode, which makes authors to write some
> lame scripts to get them in.
Not a lot of celebrities here yet, just the ones with Elton John
(yawn), Gene Wilder (I think it was) and Madonna (funny).
> Another shark jumping moment for me (that's a lot of sharks for one show :-)
> was Jack giving up acting and pursuing his nursing career.
Arrrrgh, spoiler for me again :-)
Joyce