Lost's new sheriff ("The Long Con" spoilers)
Ken from Chicago
Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it herself. It's the 21st century.
She don't have to rely on the menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
-- Ken from Chicago
P.S. Dark Charlie's kewl, wicked kewl. Ever since FLATLINERS, you gotta
watch those kids in hoodies.
tomcervo
secure power. Sleep deep, Sawyer, knowing that Charlie's got your back.
And as soon as Jin figures out what happened to his wife, you've got a
f*cking samurai on your case.
Ubiquitous
wrote:
>You can't play a playa, son. Bout time Jack and Locke got their comeuppance.
>Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it herself. It's the 21st century.
>She don't have to rely on the menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
Bah. The whole thing struck me as contrived.
>P.S. Dark Charlie's kewl, wicked kewl. Ever since FLATLINERS, you gotta
>watch those kids in hoodies.
I call him "Darth Hoodie".
Lostzilla
Charlie's character has definitely improved. His darker quality is much
more interesting than the kindly young lad you saves Claire's baby and
then gets stabbed in the back by the bitch.
ANIM8Rfsk
kwicker1...@comcast.net wrote on 2/9/06 6:00 AM:
> You can't play a playa, son. Bout time Jack and Locke got their comeuppance.
> Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it herself. It's the 21st century.
> She don't have to rely on the menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
I didn't get that. How did he know she'd send him to do her warning? How
did she figure out he knew she would? Hell, when she asked him, I was
saying 'why him?'
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
>
> P.S. Dark Charlie's kewl, wicked kewl. Ever since FLATLINERS, you gotta
> watch those kids in hoodies.
>
>
--
The "Upward Foundation" in Phoenix AZ, 623-848-9725, 623-247-6142, 602
242-6839, 602 246-9186, 623 848-3568, also using the name "Foundation For"
are liars and scam artists. They make junk phone calls often several times
a day to the same number and refuse to remove you from their calling list
(they will give you a non working number to call to be removed, and the
contact address on their website is phony). This has been going on for a
decade. Do not deal with them.
tdciago
Lostzilla wrote:
> Charlie's character has definitely improved. His darker quality is much
> more interesting than the kindly young lad you saves Claire's baby and
> then gets stabbed in the back by the bitch.
Honestly, I keep expecting Pippin to walk into a scene and bitch slap
him.
bkl...@yahoo.com
I was trying to remember if there was some bad blood between Kate &
Locke that was making her timid to approach him herself. Although,
wouldn't the con have worked even if Kate had been the one to warn
Locke herself?
Joanne Marinelli
"ANIM8Rfsk" <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:C010A820.6AB2C%ANIM...@cox.net...
> in article -M6dnWHyN4e...@comcast.com, Ken from Chicago at
> kwicker1...@comcast.net wrote on 2/9/06 6:00 AM:
>
> > You can't play a playa, son. Bout time Jack and Locke got their
comeuppance.
> > Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it herself. It's the 21st
century.
> > She don't have to rely on the menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
>
> I didn't get that. How did he know she'd send him to do her warning? How
> did she figure out he knew she would? Hell, when she asked him, I was
> saying 'why him?'
>
motives to heed any warning from her.
J
Joanne Marinelli
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:-M6dnWHyN4e...@comcast.com...
> You can't play a playa, son. Bout time Jack and Locke got their
comeuppance.
> Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it herself. It's the 21st
century.
> She don't have to rely on the menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
>
over at fairly regular intervals.
Joanne
Steven L.
Too high risk.
First of all, Kate might not have been able to convince Locke as well as
Sawyer could--he's a smooth talker.
Secondly, Sawyer wanted to keep an eye on Locke to make sure he really
did move all the guns out of the bunker. Kate is manipulative herself
(cf. her plot to bamboozle Sun to poison Jin) and if she had been in the
bunker, she might have bamboozled Locke into telling her where the guns
were--or even stealing a gun when he wasn't looking.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
rob...@bestweb.net
> in article -M6dnWHyN4e...@comcast.com, Ken from Chicago at
> kwicker1...@comcast.net wrote on 2/9/06 6:00 AM:
> > You can't play a playa, son. Bout time Jack and Locke got their comeuppance.
> > Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it herself. It's the 21st century.
> > She don't have to rely on the menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
> I didn't get that. How did he know she'd send him to do her warning? How
> did she figure out he knew she would? Hell, when she asked him, I was
> saying 'why him?'
This story was planted in large measure to satisfy those who say, in
response to my theory about "Lost", that people aren't that
predictable. So the makers of "Lost" are saying by this episode, that
in the world of "Lost", they are that predictable, and that we should
adjust our expectations to that level. The main plot of "Lost" is that
of a long con. It fits so well, in fact, that Sawyer's description of
a long con virtually echoes my words in
http://users.bestweb.net/~robgood/teach/GetLost_2.html that the Losties
had to be made to think it was their idea.
Robert
Steven L.
It's also the fact that in the past, we've seen Kate follow Locke's lead
on several occasions (going into the hatch, the button pushing, carrying
the dynamite, etc.).
Kate isn't the one to try to get Locke to do something he wouldn't
otherwise want to do. Usually, it's been the reverse--Locke influencing
Kate.
Dave K
haha! That was dialogue worthy. Not sure where or by whom...
him...@animail.net
Joanne Marinelli wrote:
> It won't last. Sawyer isn't exactly at the top of his game, and gets screwed
> over at fairly regular intervals.
>
Definitely. We've seen various attempts (some inadvertant) by
different characters to lead the losties. So far, none have worked.
We've had Jack's (bad) managerial style which we know has created a
clique that is resented by the beachies, and which is also internally
contentious. We've had Locke's charismatic, wise old man approach
which has already gotten one follower killed. We've had Ana-Lucia's
military dictator approach which wound up killing one of her followers,
failed to protect most of the others in her group, and resulted in her
killing Shannon by accident; one thing Locke is right about is that we
don't need the losties randomly frolicking about in the woods armed.
And now we've got Sawyer's Cowboy-Warlord,
I-make-the-rules-cause-I've-got-all-the-guns approach. That's the
worst yet, and probably a cry for suicide by the character.
This bunch needs to hold a few meetings in which everyone, not just the
core group, has a say, and in which they set up some sort of
organization that has buy-in and legitimacy from at least most of the
losties.
himiko
him...@animail.net
Jin is Korean, not Japanese, so no samurai stuff. The Yangban class
would be the equivalent of the Japanese samurai class, but it doesn't
have the same imagery; the Yangban were mostly scholars and
bureaucrats...so were the samurai by the end, but they kept their
warrior image better.
Jin might go all Hwarang on Sawyer's case, I guess. The Hwarang were a
martial arts group around the 6th-10th century; it still survives today
or has been resurrected or something. The Hwarang weren't a class or
caste like the samurai though; it was something artistocratic young men
(and Jin isn't an aristocrat by any means) joined like a militia.
However, Hwarang-do is a bit like Bushi-do in that it's a code of
conduct rather than a particular fighting style.
himiko (always ready to tell you more than you really wanted to know)
Arthur Lipscomb
"Margarita Salt" <bran...@kittylittercomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97657002...@129.250.170.91...
> <rob...@bestweb.net> wrote in rec.arts.tv:
> Games was one of them. Easy enough for a writer to take an end result
> and reverse engineer a con out of it, but people *are* too
> unpredictable for something with that many variables at every turn to
> ever possibly work.
snip
Are you saying you don't believe people ever fall victim to intricate con
schemes or just the ones in the movies?
Dave
> You can't play a playa, son. Bout time Jack and Locke got their comeuppance.
> Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it herself. It's the 21st century.
> She don't have to rely on the menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
Hmmm.. the whole thing seems utterly pointless. Sawyer will be disarmed
and locked up in short order. This obvious liklihood is not something a
con-artist would overlook. So what is the point? Sawyer is attention
seeking? Torture seeking? Social outcast Charlie is not enough of an
ally. The whole creepiness of Jack and Locke taking charge of important
resources such as the guns without even a thought of consulting the
whole group continues to annoy me.
> P.S. Dark Charlie's kewl, wicked kewl. Ever since FLATLINERS, you gotta
> watch those kids in hoodies.
Or at least less predictable. Lying, stealing babes, setting fires, and
now assault and battery of an innocent and passive woman. How did
Charlie justify that? To get his collection back?
mdr...@yahoo.com
Your last line sums it up dude. You wrote a lot of stuff that nobody
really cares about.
So what that the guy wrote samurai when Jin is Korean. I don't think he
even was trying to suggest Jin was Japanese, he was pointing out that
Jin was going to kick Sawyers @ss in a wording all us non Bushi-dos can
understand.
Ian J. Ball
"Dave" <gal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ken from Chicago wrote:
>
> > P.S. Dark Charlie's kewl, wicked kewl. Ever since FLATLINERS, you gotta
> > watch those kids in hoodies.
>
> Or at least less predictable. Lying, stealing babes, setting fires, and
> now assault and battery of an innocent and passive woman. How did
> Charlie justify that? To get his collection back?
Charlie wants revenge. (So does Sawyer.) Frankly, I can't hold that
against them - Jack, Locke, Claire, et al. are a bunch of ponces. They
deserve what's comin' to 'em.
<eg>
--
"Read less. More TV." - Dr. Greg House, "House"
http://homepage.mac.com/ijball/TV-Blog/
rwgibson13
Ian J. Ball wrote:
> In article <1139507924....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Dave" <gal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ken from Chicago wrote:
> >
> > > P.S. Dark Charlie's kewl, wicked kewl. Ever since FLATLINERS, you gotta
> > > watch those kids in hoodies.
> >
> > Or at least less predictable. Lying, stealing babes, setting fires, and
> > now assault and battery of an innocent and passive woman. How did
> > Charlie justify that? To get his collection back?
>
> Charlie wants revenge. (So does Sawyer.) Frankly, I can't hold that
> against them - Jack, Locke, Claire, et al. are a bunch of ponces. They
> deserve what's comin' to 'em.
> <eg>
Charlie already got what was coming to him. Three or four time last
episode. Talk about ponces? He didn't even fight back :-)
RWG (come to think of it, he had to pick on Sun, even Libby would've
probably kicked his ass :-)
Steven L.
I've said that ever since Season 1.
In fact, instead of trying to button-hole individual Lostaways to join
their little army, Jack and Ana-Lucia should have called a "town
meeting" to discuss the entire problem of The Others and what to do
about it. Instead of "Hi, Steve, wanna join our army?" "Hi, Libby,
wanna join our army?" on and on and on.
Daniel Damouth
news:1139505293.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> Jin might go all Hwarang on Sawyer's case, I guess.
The show has devolved to the point that main characters butchering each
other would be an improvement.
-Dan Damouth
Mark
<mdr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1139508077.9...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Your last line sums it up dude. You wrote a lot of stuff that nobody
> really cares about.
>
> So what that the guy wrote samurai when Jin is Korean. I don't think he
> even was trying to suggest Jin was Japanese, he was pointing out that
> Jin was going to kick Sawyers @ss in a wording all us non Bushi-dos can
> understand.
Signs you have been watching too much Lost:
You have an unexplainable tolerance for sloppy, inconsistent writing. And
you make personal attacks upon those whose standards have not been so
eroded.
tdciago
Steven L. wrote:
> > I was trying to remember if there was some bad blood between Kate &
> > Locke that was making her timid to approach him herself. Although,
> > wouldn't the con have worked even if Kate had been the one to warn
> > Locke herself?
>
> Too high risk.
>
> First of all, Kate might not have been able to convince Locke as well as
> Sawyer could--he's a smooth talker.
>
> Secondly, Sawyer wanted to keep an eye on Locke to make sure he really
> did move all the guns out of the bunker. Kate is manipulative herself
> (cf. her plot to bamboozle Sun to poison Jin) and if she had been in the
> bunker, she might have bamboozled Locke into telling her where the guns
> were--or even stealing a gun when he wasn't looking.
Yeah, but that's all the more reason to go herself, and not tell Sawyer
to go. That's why I still think that Kate *may have been* the one
doing the conning. It would be interesting if we found out that Kate
was the one who clued Jack in about Sawyer's stash of pills (all in
Sawyer's best interest, of course), just like she planted the seed of
doubt in Jack's mind about Ana-Lucia. Maybe Kate instigated the rift
in hopes that Jack would clean out Sawyer's tent and Sawyer would want
revenge, in the form of getting the guns. When Sawyer gave Kate all
that info about the hood's fabric (and how the hell did he pick up on
that in the dark?), it dawned on her that her con had worked. Sawyer
thought the whole gun con was his idea. Maybe tracker Kate was later
able to figure out where Sawyer's accomplice hid the guns by following
a trail. It must have been difficult for Charlie to move all that
stuff, especially without leaving a significant trail.
P.S. Who or what really convinced Jack to put all the guns in the
vault?
ANIM8Rfsk
bran...@kittylittercomcast.net wrote on 2/9/06 10:00 AM:
> <rob...@bestweb.net> wrote in rec.arts.tv:
> I've never bought into eps and movies based on long con. Reindeer
> Games was one of them. Easy enough for a writer to take an end result
> and reverse engineer a con out of it, but people *are* too
> unpredictable for something with that many variables at every turn to
> ever possibly work. Cassidy's con was okay for the first two, maybe
> three steps, but it have 6 or seven in it, which makes the odds of it
> working IRL way too long to base your freedom from incarceration on (or
> worse). The Long Lost Con, was too much and it *is* getting to be Lord
> of the Flies no matter how much the creators try to deny it.
>
> What a cop-out.
THE GAME is the worst example of that. Damn that move made me mad.
Melroseman
> Yeah, but that's all the more reason to go herself, and not tell Sawyer
> to go. That's why I still think that Kate *may have been* the one
> doing the conning. It would be interesting if we found out that Kate
> was the one who clued Jack in about Sawyer's stash of pills (all in
> Sawyer's best interest, of course), just like she planted the seed of
> doubt in Jack's mind about Ana-Lucia. Maybe Kate instigated the rift
> in hopes that Jack would clean out Sawyer's tent and Sawyer would want
> revenge, in the form of getting the guns. When Sawyer gave Kate all
> that info about the hood's fabric (and how the hell did he pick up on
> that in the dark?), it dawned on her that her con had worked. Sawyer
> thought the whole gun con was his idea. Maybe tracker Kate was later
> able to figure out where Sawyer's accomplice hid the guns by following
> a trail. It must have been difficult for Charlie to move all that
> stuff, especially without leaving a significant trail.
If in the coming weeks, the guns are desperately needed and Sawyer leads
them to the stash, only to find that the guns have vanished, then I
think you might be right about Kate. She will have moved them or told
Zeke where they are...
--
New to alt.tv.lost? Please read the FAQ before posting:
http://www.geocities.com/alt_tv_lost/
ANIM8Rfsk
on 2/9/06 12:43 PM:
And soon, you're watching Surface.
David B
> Ken from Chicago wrote:
> >
> > You can't play a playa, son. Bout time Jack and Locke got their comeuppance.
> > Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it herself. It's the 21st century.
> > She don't have to rely on the menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
> >
> > -- Ken from Chicago
> >
> > P.S. Dark Charlie's kewl, wicked kewl. Ever since FLATLINERS, you gotta
> > watch those kids in hoodies.
>
> Charlie's character has definitely improved. His darker quality is much
> more interesting than the kindly young lad you saves Claire's baby and
> then gets stabbed in the back by the bitch.
It made Charlie more interesting but now I want to see him die. And Charlie has
himself to blame for what Claire did to him. Charlie was getting too obsessed over
her and the baby and then he kidnapped Aaron twice. It's his own damn fault for
being such a thick headed ass.
bkl...@yahoo.com
I don't know, the betrayal and frustration in Lily/Kate's face in the
final scene makes it seem to me that TPTB didn't intend that. Which
isn't to say they won't go that way, but they really made Lily play the
truth of that scene. I'm not sure I'd buy Kate being that good an
actress.
tdciago
bkl...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I don't know, the betrayal and frustration in Lily/Kate's face in the
> final scene makes it seem to me that TPTB didn't intend that. Which
> isn't to say they won't go that way, but they really made Lily play the
> truth of that scene. I'm not sure I'd buy Kate being that good an
> actress.
If Kate really pulled the con, she could still be sickened by how
smoothly and coldly Sawyer ran his own part of it. The fact that he
would put Sun in danger, his cockiness in walking into the camp firing
the gun, etc., could still make her disgusted both with him and with
herself. I doubt Evangeline Lilly would know that her character was
the real conner; the director would just tell her to look betrayed and
hurt. The real reason for that look may be revealed at a later time.
Glassman
comeuppance.
> Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it herself. It's the 21st
century.
> She don't have to rely on the menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
>
> P.S. Dark Charlie's kewl, wicked kewl. Ever since FLATLINERS, you gotta
> watch those kids in hoodies.
>
>
The coming attractions clearly show others with guns, so Sawyers reign
will be short lived, after Kate reamed him and made him feel stupid and
cheap.
--
"Don't get me wrong... I'm SNARKY"
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories
Steven L.
> Steven L. wrote:
>
>>>I was trying to remember if there was some bad blood between Kate &
>>>Locke that was making her timid to approach him herself. Although,
>>>wouldn't the con have worked even if Kate had been the one to warn
>>>Locke herself?
>>
>>Too high risk.
>>
>>First of all, Kate might not have been able to convince Locke as well as
>>Sawyer could--he's a smooth talker.
>>
>>Secondly, Sawyer wanted to keep an eye on Locke to make sure he really
>>did move all the guns out of the bunker. Kate is manipulative herself
>>(cf. her plot to bamboozle Sun to poison Jin) and if she had been in the
>>bunker, she might have bamboozled Locke into telling her where the guns
>>were--or even stealing a gun when he wasn't looking.
>
>
> Yeah, but that's all the more reason to go herself, and not tell Sawyer
> to go. That's why I still think that Kate *may have been* the one
> doing the conning. It would be interesting if we found out that Kate
> was the one who clued Jack in about Sawyer's stash of pills (all in
> Sawyer's best interest, of course), just like she planted the seed of
> doubt in Jack's mind about Ana-Lucia. Maybe Kate instigated the rift
> in hopes that Jack would clean out Sawyer's tent and Sawyer would want
> revenge, in the form of getting the guns.
I very much doubt that. Because Kate is analogous to the woman Sawyer
conned in his pre-crash backstory--she has genuine feelings for Sawyer,
as she admitted in her speech when he was unconscious. But Sawyer was
beginning to regain consciousness and he heard much of what Kate said.
A good con man plays on the emotions of his marks. And now Sawyer knows
where Kate is coming from, and he used that.
There is only one woman that Sawyer can't con, and that's Ana-Lucia.
Because emotionally she is a dominatrix, likes to order men around. And
that's the one type of relationship that macho Sawyer can't have with a
woman.
Artis
is Locke so quiet, letting Sawyer go on and on about being the new
Sheriff?
Ken from Chicago
> kwicker1...@comcast.net wrote on 2/9/06 6:00 AM:
>
>> comeuppance.
>> Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it herself. It's the 21st
>> century.
>> She don't have to rely on the menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
>
> did she figure out he knew she would? Hell, when she asked him, I was
> saying 'why him?'
That's the beauty part. Didn't matter. The guns would be moved and Charlie
would follow the guns. Didn't matter if Sawyer, Kate or whoever warned Locke
or if Locke or someone else moved the guns, the guns would be followed ...
and stolen.
-- Ken from Chicago
Default User
Locke doesn't know where they are. Did you watch the show? Charlie
tailed Locke and swiped the guns from the new stash.
Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
Clairel
--What makes you think Locke knows where the guns have been moved to
now?
Either you're confused or I'm confused.
Clairel
ANIM8Rfsk
Vid...@BigMailBox.net wrote on 2/9/06 5:16 PM:
> So this week, Sawyer, Charlie, and Locke know where the guns are. Why
> is Locke so quiet, letting Sawyer go on and on about being the new
> Sheriff?
>
What? How does Locke know where the guns are?
cloud dreamer
He's confused.
..
Ubiquitous
>Or at least less predictable. Lying, stealing babes, setting fires, and
>now assault and battery of an innocent and passive woman. How did
>Charlie justify that? To get his collection back?
According to what he said, it was payback for Locke punching him in the face.
Yeah, I thought it was lame too.
--
This episode of LOST was brought to you by the letters L, O, S, and T, and the
numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42.
cloud dreamer
> You can't play a playa, son. Bout time Jack and Locke got their comeuppance.
> Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it herself. It's the 21st century.
> She don't have to rely on the menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
>
> P.S. Dark Charlie's kewl, wicked kewl. Ever since FLATLINERS, you gotta
> watch those kids in hoodies.
>
>
Speaking of Kate....was that her mother who served Sawyer at the diner?
..
Major ChrisB
"cloud dreamer" <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:11unpp2...@corp.supernews.com...
Yip meaning Sayers now met Jack's Dad and Kate's Mum. I'm expecting soon
we'll discover he was responsible for the Lock/Kidney scam his dad pulled
and tricking the viewers into thinking LOST was a real show and not just a
joke that got out of hand....
I keep expecting the episodes to stop half way through and JJ Abrams to
appear saying "Look everyone I'm sorry but come on...did you really expect
us to know what this monster and these numbers were? We were having a
laugh, ABC didn't realise and it all got out of hand....I'm sorry everyone
have a free dvd box set and we'll just end it here"
Messalina
mdr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> him...@animail.net wrote:
> > tomcervo wrote:
> > > Yeah, well, building your empire with a drug addict is a sure way to
> > > secure power. Sleep deep, Sawyer, knowing that Charlie's got your back.
> > > And as soon as Jin figures out what happened to his wife, you've got a
> > > f*cking samurai on your case.
> >
> > Jin is Korean, not Japanese, so no samurai stuff. The Yangban class
> > would be the equivalent of the Japanese samurai class, but it doesn't
> > have the same imagery; the Yangban were mostly scholars and
> > bureaucrats...so were the samurai by the end, but they kept their
> > warrior image better.
> >
> > Jin might go all Hwarang on Sawyer's case, I guess. The Hwarang were a
> > martial arts group around the 6th-10th century; it still survives today
> > or has been resurrected or something. The Hwarang weren't a class or
> > caste like the samurai though; it was something artistocratic young men
> > (and Jin isn't an aristocrat by any means) joined like a militia.
> > However, Hwarang-do is a bit like Bushi-do in that it's a code of
> > conduct rather than a particular fighting style.
> >
> > himiko (always ready to tell you more than you really wanted to know)
>
> Your last line sums it up dude. You wrote a lot of stuff that nobody
> really cares about.
Speak for yourself, dude. I found it most interesting.
Mez
Ken from Chicago
Yup.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Major ChrisB" <cgbrannig...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:kKTGf.1244$3V6....@fe31.usenetserver.com...
JJ Abrams pulls off a face mask to reveal his secret identity:
DAVID LYNCH!
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Glassman" <jksi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:pqPGf.759$Zf7...@fe10.lga...
Sawyer does NOT need Kate's help to feel that way.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Artis" <Vid...@BigMailBox.net> wrote in message
news:1139530616.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> So this week, Sawyer, Charlie, and Locke know where the guns are. Why
> is Locke so quiet, letting Sawyer go on and on about being the new
> Sheriff?
Charlie stole the guns from wherever Locke took them and gave them to
Sawyer--because if Charlie kept them then everyone would know he had an ...
(say it with me, people) ... ALLIANCE ... with Sawyet.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Clairel" <reld...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:1139531852.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Psst, not option 2.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Dave" <gal...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139507924....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ken from Chicago wrote:
>> You can't play a playa, son. Bout time Jack and Locke got their
>> comeuppance.
>> Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it herself. It's the 21st
>> century.
>> She don't have to rely on the menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
>
> and locked up in short order. This obvious liklihood is not something a
> con-artist would overlook. So what is the point? Sawyer is attention
> seeking? Torture seeking? Social outcast Charlie is not enough of an
> ally. The whole creepiness of Jack and Locke taking charge of important
> resources such as the guns without even a thought of consulting the
> whole group continues to annoy me.
THAT was the point. Jack and Locke's cavalier and arrogant taking charge of
the group--without seeking the group's assent. He's force those two and the
rest to THINK about the power relationships within the group.
>> P.S. Dark Charlie's kewl, wicked kewl. Ever since FLATLINERS, you gotta
>> watch those kids in hoodies.
>
> Or at least less predictable. Lying, stealing babes, setting fires, and
> now assault and battery of an innocent and passive woman. How did
> Charlie justify that? To get his collection back?
He was trying to save the baby by baptizing it. Yeah, the lying and arsony
was bad.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
<him...@animail.net> wrote in message
news:1139504525.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Joanne Marinelli wrote:
>
>> It won't last. Sawyer isn't exactly at the top of his game, and gets
>> screwed
>> over at fairly regular intervals.
>>
> Definitely. We've seen various attempts (some inadvertant) by
> different characters to lead the losties. So far, none have worked.
> We've had Jack's (bad) managerial style which we know has created a
> clique that is resented by the beachies, and which is also internally
> contentious. We've had Locke's charismatic, wise old man approach
> which has already gotten one follower killed. We've had Ana-Lucia's
> military dictator approach which wound up killing one of her followers,
> failed to protect most of the others in her group, and resulted in her
> killing Shannon by accident; one thing Locke is right about is that we
> don't need the losties randomly frolicking about in the woods armed.
> And now we've got Sawyer's Cowboy-Warlord,
> I-make-the-rules-cause-I've-got-all-the-guns approach. That's the
> worst yet, and probably a cry for suicide by the character.
>
> This bunch needs to hold a few meetings in which everyone, not just the
> core group, has a say, and in which they set up some sort of
> organization that has buy-in and legitimacy from at least most of the
> losties.
>
> himiko
>
Too bad a certain Ms. Summers is busy leading her own group. She's really
good at the whole leadership dealie--especially the whole inspiring
speechifying.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Margarita Salt" <bran...@kittylittercomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97657DD5...@129.250.170.88...
> Arthur Lipscomb <a.lip...@comcast.net> wrote in rec.arts.tv:
>
>> Are you saying you don't believe people ever fall victim to
>> intricate con schemes or just the ones in the movies?
>
> Sure they do. Doris Duke is one of them. But the more players you
> have and the more variables there are, the less likely you are to get
> each person to act or react in the manner necessary to pull of the
> scam.
>
> --
> Margarita Salt
>
> "...practically no one in the world is entirely bad or
> entirely good... motives are often more important than
> actions." -- Eleanore Roosevelt
But the thing about the con on LOST is that it didn't matter who warned
Locke, the key was that Jack's reaction (going a'hunting, notice it would be
the 3rd time in the past 50 days: 1-hunting down Ethan Rom, 2-hunting for
Michael, 3-hunting for Sun) was fairly predictable and Locke's reaction to
ant to keep the guns from getting out was also predictable. It was simply a
matter of following Locke or whomever Locke got to move the guns.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
> in article Xns97657002...@129.250.170.91, Margarita Salt at
> bran...@kittylittercomcast.net wrote on 2/9/06 10:00 AM:
>
>> <rob...@bestweb.net> wrote in rec.arts.tv:
>>
>>> ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
>>>
>>>> in article -M6dnWHyN4e...@comcast.com, Ken from Chicago
>>>> at kwicker1...@comcast.net wrote on 2/9/06 6:00 AM:
>>>
>>>>> comeuppance. Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it
>>>>> herself. It's the 21st century. She don't have to rely on the
>>>>> menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
>>>
>>>> warning? How did she figure out he knew she would? Hell, when
>>>> she asked him, I was saying 'why him?'
>>>
>>> in response to my theory about "Lost", that people aren't that
>>> predictable. So the makers of "Lost" are saying by this episode,
>>> that in the world of "Lost", they are that predictable, and that
>>> we should adjust our expectations to that level. The main plot of
>>> "Lost" is that of a long con. It fits so well, in fact, that
>>> Sawyer's description of a long con virtually echoes my words in
>>> http://users.bestweb.net/~robgood/teach/GetLost_2.html that the
>>> Losties had to be made to think it was their idea.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I've never bought into eps and movies based on long con. Reindeer
>> Games was one of them. Easy enough for a writer to take an end result
>> and reverse engineer a con out of it, but people *are* too
>> unpredictable for something with that many variables at every turn to
>> ever possibly work. Cassidy's con was okay for the first two, maybe
>> three steps, but it have 6 or seven in it, which makes the odds of it
>> working IRL way too long to base your freedom from incarceration on (or
>> worse). The Long Lost Con, was too much and it *is* getting to be Lord
>> of the Flies no matter how much the creators try to deny it.
>>
>> What a cop-out.
>
> THE GAME is the worst example of that. Damn that move made me mad.
You prefer FI'TY CENT'?
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"tdciago" <tdc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1139497887.6...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Lostzilla wrote:
>> Charlie's character has definitely improved. His darker quality is much
>> more interesting than the kindly young lad you saves Claire's baby and
>> then gets stabbed in the back by the bitch.
>
> him.
>
What about Frodo?
-- Ken from Chicago
P.S. Sam is busy leading CTU.
Ken from Chicago
<him...@animail.net> wrote in message
news:1139505293.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> tomcervo wrote:
>> Yeah, well, building your empire with a drug addict is a sure way to
>> secure power. Sleep deep, Sawyer, knowing that Charlie's got your back.
>> And as soon as Jin figures out what happened to his wife, you've got a
>> f*cking samurai on your case.
>
> Jin is Korean, not Japanese, so no samurai stuff. The Yangban class
> would be the equivalent of the Japanese samurai class, but it doesn't
> have the same imagery; the Yangban were mostly scholars and
> bureaucrats...so were the samurai by the end, but they kept their
> warrior image better.
>
> Jin might go all Hwarang on Sawyer's case, I guess. The Hwarang were a
> martial arts group around the 6th-10th century; it still survives today
> or has been resurrected or something. The Hwarang weren't a class or
> caste like the samurai though; it was something artistocratic young men
> (and Jin isn't an aristocrat by any means) joined like a militia.
> However, Hwarang-do is a bit like Bushi-do in that it's a code of
> conduct rather than a particular fighting style.
>
> himiko (always ready to tell you more than you really wanted to know)
>
"So, are you Chinese or Japanese?" "I live in California last twenty
years, but first come from Laos." "Huh?" "Laos. We Laotian." "The ocean?
What ocean?" "We are Laotian. From Laos, stupid! It's a landlocked country
in Southeast Asia. It's between Vietnam and Thailand, okay? Population 4.7
million." "[Pause] So, are you Chinese or Japanese?"--'Hank' & 'Kahn', KING
OF THE HILL.
-- Ken from Chicago (who knows more than he wants to know, for the love of
all that's good and decent, someone erase the lyrics to the ALICE theme
song)
P.S. "I used to be sad / I used to be shy / Funniest thing I never knew why
/ There's a new girl in town / And she's feeling good / Gotta smile, gotta
song / For the ... neighborhood-"-See?!! Make it stop! MAKE IT STOP!
Ken from Chicago
<mdr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1139508077.9...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> him...@animail.net wrote:
>> tomcervo wrote:
>> > Yeah, well, building your empire with a drug addict is a sure way to
>> > secure power. Sleep deep, Sawyer, knowing that Charlie's got your back.
>> > And as soon as Jin figures out what happened to his wife, you've got a
>> > f*cking samurai on your case.
>>
>> Jin is Korean, not Japanese, so no samurai stuff. The Yangban class
>> would be the equivalent of the Japanese samurai class, but it doesn't
>> have the same imagery; the Yangban were mostly scholars and
>> bureaucrats...so were the samurai by the end, but they kept their
>> warrior image better.
>>
>> Jin might go all Hwarang on Sawyer's case, I guess. The Hwarang were a
>> martial arts group around the 6th-10th century; it still survives today
>> or has been resurrected or something. The Hwarang weren't a class or
>> caste like the samurai though; it was something artistocratic young men
>> (and Jin isn't an aristocrat by any means) joined like a militia.
>> However, Hwarang-do is a bit like Bushi-do in that it's a code of
>> conduct rather than a particular fighting style.
>>
>> himiko (always ready to tell you more than you really wanted to know)
>
> really cares about.
>
> even was trying to suggest Jin was Japanese, he was pointing out that
> Jin was going to kick Sawyers @ss in a wording all us non Bushi-dos can
> understand.
>
Wait, so Marsellus was NOT a knight from the Dark Ages despite his claim he
was gonna get all "medieval" on some Neo-Nazi guy?!
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Daniel Damouth" <dam...@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9765720932E6...@66.75.164.119...
> "him...@animail.net" <him...@animail.net> wrote in
> news:1139505293.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Jin might go all Hwarang on Sawyer's case, I guess.
>
> other would be an improvement.
>
> -Dan Damouth
>
Gotta kill them off until they're down to 42, then 23, 16, 15, 8 and
eventually the core 4 aka The Scoobies.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
> in article wXMGf.2554$Sb.1438@trndny06, Mark at bong...@verizon.net
> wrote
> on 2/9/06 12:43 PM:
>>> really cares about.
>>>
>>> So what that the guy wrote samurai when Jin is Korean. I don't think he
>>> even was trying to suggest Jin was Japanese, he was pointing out that
>>> Jin was going to kick Sawyers @ss in a wording all us non Bushi-dos can
>>> understand.
>>
>> You have an unexplainable tolerance for sloppy, inconsistent writing. And
>> you make personal attacks upon those whose standards have not been so
>> eroded.
>>
>>
>
> And soon, you're watching Surface.
Or worse, ANDROMEDA.
-- Ken from Chicago
Q
Steven L. wrote:
>
> There is only one woman that Sawyer can't con, and that's Ana-Lucia.
oh, i really disagree - she may act like a badass, but she'd be *very*
easy to manipulate.
Q
people with blinders on are the easiest to lead
Q
Ken from Chicago wrote:
> You can't play a playa, son. Bout time Jack and Locke got their comeuppance.
> Same for Kate.
the thing i guess i liked about this episode is that it reminded the
losties (and us) that sawyer is still dangerous.
the thing i didn't like is that he lost his dame edna glasses. :(
> P.S. Dark Charlie's kewl, wicked kewl. Ever since FLATLINERS, you gotta
> watch those kids in hoodies.
he just rocketed WAY up to the top of the 'likely to die' list with
this episode - i can't see how the writers can ever realistically
redeem him after doing something so cold and unconscionable.
Q
btw, major props for reffing an excellent (and much underrated)
movie...'hey! hey, fellacio...!'
ANIM8Rfsk
kwicker1...@comcast.net wrote on 2/9/06 11:07 PM:
Now, that's just mean.
Q
him...@animail.net wrote:
> tomcervo wrote:
> > Yeah, well, building your empire with a drug addict is a sure way to
> > secure power. Sleep deep, Sawyer, knowing that Charlie's got your back.
> > And as soon as Jin figures out what happened to his wife, you've got a
> > f*cking samurai on your case.
>
> Jin is Korean, not Japanese, so no samurai stuff.
>
bushi-do? you mean running into the middle of a fight all by yourself
and then calling other people unpatriotic when they don't join you?
Q
yeah, sounds about like jack this season
Ken from Chicago
The truth hurts.
Why?
Because you can't stop the signal.
-- Ken from Chicago
P.S. Plus reading your many messages of complaints about ANDROMEDA over the
years.
Ken from Chicago
"Q" <sys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139552277....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
You'd manipulate her anger against her. And rage tends to blind one to the
fact that you're being manipulated.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ryan Robbins
<him...@animail.net> wrote in message
>
> Joanne Marinelli wrote:
>
>> It won't last. Sawyer isn't exactly at the top of his game, and gets
>> screwed
>> over at fairly regular intervals.
>>
> Definitely. We've seen various attempts (some inadvertant) by
> different characters to lead the losties. So far, none have worked.
> We've had Jack's (bad) managerial style which we know has created a
We saw Arzt complain, but there hasn't been any indication there are lots of
people upset about the clique.
Ken from Chicago
"Ryan Robbins" <redbi...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1o_Gf.4555$Sb.2746@trndny03...
Because we haven't seen much beyond the featured 15.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
>
> Ken from Chicago wrote:
>> You can't play a playa, son. Bout time Jack and Locke got their
>> comeuppance.
>> Same for Kate.
>
>
> the thing i guess i liked about this episode is that it reminded the
> losties (and us) that sawyer is still dangerous.
For fans of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, three words:
"The Yoko Factor"
> the thing i didn't like is that he lost his dame edna glasses. :(
They can make others, maybe the taileies brought some.
>> P.S. Dark Charlie's kewl, wicked kewl. Ever since FLATLINERS, you gotta
>> watch those kids in hoodies.
>
>
> he just rocketed WAY up to the top of the 'likely to die' list with
> this episode - i can't see how the writers can ever realistically
> redeem him after doing something so cold and unconscionable.
Pain. Suffering. Heroic rescue at risk of his own life.
It's "William 'Spike' Pratt" all over again.
Simple example: Diving in front of a gunshot at Claire and the baby.
Better example: Diving in front of gunshot at several kegs of dynamite.
OR
<"Dad? It's me, Walt. Where are you?">
"Dude?! Jack, Jack, the computer, it's talking, well, not talking but words
appeared onscreen--from Walt."
"What? Show me."
* * *
"Jack, we can't leave. The film warned us of distractions."
"Fine, Locke, you stay. But we're not going to leave a little kid who knows
where."
* * *
"Aaah! Who are you?"
"Do not worry, little boy. I am a friend of your father. Walt, my name is
Eko. Jack! They are this way."
"Walt? Walt?"
"Jack? Over here, my dad! He's hurt. He won't wake up."
"It's okay, Walt, we're here. We'll help him. Have you seen anyone else
here?"
"No, they all left. My dad, he won't wake up."
"Don't worry. We'll help him and get him back."
* * *
"W-Walt?"
"Dad? Dad!"
"W-Where, what happened?"
"Jack, and Locke and Kate and Sawyer and Sayid and Mr. Eko and Ms. Ana came
and fixed you up and we brought you home."
"Oh, ... you ... brought ... me ... back home, heh."
"Well, well, hey gang, Sleeping Beauty's awake."
"Hey, Sawyer."
"Hey, y'self, getting tired of ridin' to ya rescue. I gotta preserve m'good
looks."
"Michael."
"Jack."
"How are you? What happened? That place was empty except for you and Walt."
"Well, well, isn't this touching. It warms the cockles of yer heart. Hey."
Numerous shotguns are heard cocking just before a dozen people step out of
jungle into the clearing where Michael's lean to is set up. "I suggest you
good folk stand where you are."
"What do you want?"
"Well, Jack, I like a man that gets to the point. The point is we had a
deal, an understanding, which you broke. Now ... now recompense must be
made. Someone must pay. Hmm, which one, which one? The con, the ex-con, the
doc, the dad, the son, the scout, the husband, the wife, the soldier, the
geek, wait, I know ... the mom."
Someone brings out Claire out of the shadows with her arms bound behind her.
to the Others' leader, who pulls out a handgun.
"No, I'll pay. She's a baby."
"Yes, Jack, that's right. She has ties to the island. It's important for you
to learn to respect the rules and what better way than for those with ties
not just to the world but to your fellow castaways to think twice before
doing something that will make the other suffer. Taking care of the baby
will be a constant reminder TO YOU ALL to follow the rules."
"NOOOOO!"
"Charlie!"
Charlie runs out dark and slams into the leader into the ground. "You!
<Punch> Don't! <Punch> Claire! <Punch>" Two of the others drag Charlie off
the leader, who gets up shakily, shaking off the punches.
"Ow. Well, another tie. That makes this easier." <BLAM><BLAM> Charlie
recoils from the two shots into the chest. <BLAM> And he spins around to the
ground as the third shot hits--to the head.
"Well," the leader spits out some blood, "Our work here is done. Remember,
Our side. You side." And they all walk into the shadows.
"Charlie!" Claire wails.
"Claire, I- ... I- ... I'm sorry."
"CHARLIE!"
"Hurley. Locke. Get my medical kit, and any alcohol you can find."
"Jack, it's too la-"
"The headshot was a grazing blow, and the chestshots were through and
throughs. I might can save him. Hurry!"
-- Redemptionist Ken from Chicago
P.S. "Because fanfiction makes anything possible."--THE BTVS WRITERS' GUILD.
tdciago
Ken from Chicago wrote:
> "tdciago" <tdc...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1139497887.6...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > him.
> >
>
> What about Frodo?
The only way Frodo would slap him is if Darth Hoodie wanted to trade
his DriveShaft ring for the Ring of Power. :)
> P.S. Sam is busy leading CTU.
Yeah, that's the only reason I'm watching "24." Sam's the man for this
pervy hobbit fancier.
Lizard
>Your last line sums it up dude. You wrote a lot of stuff that nobody
>really cares about.
I might not have WANTED to know it (since I didn't previously know it
existed to be known), but it was interesting to read and I'm glad I
know it now.
Lizard
wrotC:DRIVE_E
>Signs you have been watching too much television
>You have an unexplainable tolerance for sloppy, inconsistent writing. And
>you make personal attacks upon those whose standards have not been so
>eroded.
Corrected your typo.
Lizard
<him...@animail.net> wrotC:DRIVE_E
>himiko (always ready to tell you more than you really wanted to know)
Yeah, but it was cool to find out anyway. Thanks.
Steven L.
> Ken from Chicago wrote:
>
>>You can't play a playa, son. Bout time Jack and Locke got their comeuppance.
>>Same for Kate. She wants to warn Locke do it herself. It's the 21st century.
>>She don't have to rely on the menfolk to do her warnin' for her.
>
>
> Hmmm.. the whole thing seems utterly pointless. Sawyer will be disarmed
> and locked up in short order. This obvious liklihood is not something a
> con-artist would overlook. So what is the point? Sawyer is attention
> seeking? Torture seeking? Social outcast Charlie is not enough of an
> ally. The whole creepiness of Jack and Locke taking charge of important
> resources such as the guns without even a thought of consulting the
> whole group continues to annoy me.
You just answered your own question!
"The whole creepiness of Jack and Locke taking charge of important
resources" annoyed SAWYER too.
For Sawyer, the last straw(s) were: Jack once again ransacking his
tent, without even first *asking* Sawyer for the meds; and Jack and
Ana-Lucia trying to form their little army without even asking Sawyer or
Kate to join them. Why? Haven't Sawyer and Kate shown they can use
guns and fight too?
From Sawyer's perspective, that looks like Jack and Ana-Lucia forming
an alliance with enough redshirts that will leave Sawyer/Kate on the
outside. (Sawyer has been watching Jack and Ana-Lucia going off into
the jungle together to plot strategy.)
So he fixed it.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Tere
Steven L. wrote:
[snip]
> For Sawyer, the last straw(s) were: Jack once again ransacking his
> tent, without even first *asking* Sawyer for the meds; and Jack and
> Ana-Lucia trying to form their little army without even asking Sawyer or
> Kate to join them. Why? Haven't Sawyer and Kate shown they can use
> guns and fight too?
Sawyer can use a gun? The only times they've shown him using a gun,
except once, it has ended badly. 1) Sawyer kills the wrong guy in AUS.
2) Sawyer bungles killing the marshal. 3) Sawyer ends up with an ear
full of rock salt when he pointed the gun at Zeke.
The only time hewas good with a gun was when he shot the polar bear.
him...@animail.net
You're welcome. I enjoy finding out new stuff too, but apparently this
isn't universal. Even so, I figure in this format, anyone who doesn't
want to know can just skip over my ramblings.
himiko
Default User
> Sawyer can use a gun? The only times they've shown him using a gun,
> except once, it has ended badly. 1) Sawyer kills the wrong guy in AUS.
It's not like he missed and killed someone else. He used the gun just
fine, only it happened to be the wrong guy.
Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
Van Bagnol
"him...@animail.net" <him...@animail.net> wrote:
> Joanne Marinelli wrote:
>
> > It won't last. Sawyer isn't exactly at the top of his game, and gets screwed
> > over at fairly regular intervals.
> >
> Definitely. We've seen various attempts (some inadvertant) by
> different characters to lead the losties. So far, none have worked.
> We've had Jack's (bad) managerial style which we know has created a
> clique that is resented by the beachies, and which is also internally
> contentious. We've had Locke's charismatic, wise old man approach
> which has already gotten one follower killed.
To be fair, Locke was telling Boone to get out of the plane, but Boone
was too wrapped up in the radio transmission.
> We've had Ana-Lucia's
> military dictator approach which wound up killing one of her followers,
> failed to protect most of the others in her group, and resulted in her
> killing Shannon by accident; one thing Locke is right about is that we
> don't need the losties randomly frolicking about in the woods armed.
> And now we've got Sawyer's Cowboy-Warlord,
> I-make-the-rules-cause-I've-got-all-the-guns approach. That's the
> worst yet, and probably a cry for suicide by the character.
>
> This bunch needs to hold a few meetings in which everyone, not just the
> core group, has a say, and in which they set up some sort of
> organization that has buy-in and legitimacy from at least most of the
> losties.
>
> himiko
Van
--
Van Bagnol / n p c o m p l e t e at bagnol dot com / c r l at bagnol dot com
...enjoys Theatre / Windsurfing / Skydiving / Mountain Biking
...feels "parang lumalakad ako soo loob ng panaginip"
...thinks "An Error is Not a Mistake ... Unless You Refuse to Correct It"
bkl...@yahoo.com
Steven L. wrote:
> You just answered your own question!
> "The whole creepiness of Jack and Locke taking charge of important
> resources" annoyed SAWYER too.
> For Sawyer, the last straw(s) were: Jack once again ransacking his
> tent, without even first *asking* Sawyer for the meds; and Jack and
> Ana-Lucia trying to form their little army without even asking Sawyer or
> Kate to join them. Why? Haven't Sawyer and Kate shown they can use
> guns and fight too?
>
> From Sawyer's perspective, that looks like Jack and Ana-Lucia forming
> an alliance with enough redshirts that will leave Sawyer/Kate on the
> outside. (Sawyer has been watching Jack and Ana-Lucia going off into
> the jungle together to plot strategy.)
>
> So he fixed it.
Excellent assesment.
My take on it was Sawyer ultimately needs to be the alpha-dog. This was
his way of showing everyone he was the man, Jack & Locke were the
chumps. I don't know what's he's going to do now though. I really don't
see him being interested in leading the group. Maybe with his
"statement" made he'll just move on.
And as long as the truce with the Others holds, what real power does
Sawyer have? If the group decides that the guns are expendable, that
they can just write them off, then why listen to Sawyer at all? What do
they need guns for if not for defense against the Others? They weren't
using them for anything else (like hunting).
Is Sawyer going to threaten to shoot anyone that doesn't do as he says?
I don't see the group caving to that intimidation for long. That would
backfire in a revolt, ultimately. One person with only one ally can
only bully 50 for so long.
bkl...@yahoo.com
him...@animail.net wrote:
> This bunch needs to hold a few meetings in which everyone, not just the
> core group, has a say, and in which they set up some sort of
> organization that has buy-in and legitimacy from at least most of the
> losties.
It seems absurd now at 50-60 days they haven't decided to do a
leadership meeting. (I'm wondering if that is only because it would
require too much interaction with the Red Shirts?) But for 30 days or
so you can hang on the hope that help is coming. By 50 or 60 it's gotta
be crossing some people minds (I know it would mine) that, "Maybe no
one's coming. Maybe we're gonna live like this the rest of our lives."
And with that fact faced, I'd have to think that some rules of society
should be laid down, crime and punishment, work committments and
responsibilities agree on and divied up, sanitation & disposal, lots of
other things I'm sure I've missed.
bkl...@yahoo.com
Arzt said he was speaking for more than just himself.
Plus, that was surely dramatic storytelling device on the producer's
part, rather than have every red shirt complain, bring one red shirt
forward and he will act as the voice of red shirts everywhere.
Melroseman
> that the Losties
> had to be made to think it was their idea.
To thinks what was their idea?
--
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Joanne Marinelli
<him...@animail.net> wrote in message
news:1139589060.1...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
for the show begins to languish, I think because the subplots don't really
satisfy me at this point. Lost cannot sustain itself as all things to all
people, and the psychology of the players, and the coincidences
interconnecting them, has been done. 23rd Psalm was the only episode in
which the subplot really informed on the external action.
I just applied for an internship at a publication I really like, and I am
more pleased about that than anything. At least I acted. I mean I did
something to try to change how hemmed in I feel, at the mercy of the
system--and that is why I haven't been around. I had a more important
deadline than a deadline, but I am bored, as well, with all these arcane
details about the show. It cannot live up to the initial expectations
surrounding it.
Joanne
him...@animail.net
Joanne Marinelli wrote:
> I think I am only here for the asides anymore, in any case. My enthusiasm
> for the show begins to languish, I think because the subplots don't really
> satisfy me at this point. Lost cannot sustain itself as all things to all
> people, and the psychology of the players, and the coincidences
> interconnecting them, has been done. 23rd Psalm was the only episode in
> which the subplot really informed on the external action.
Really? I felt this last episode was another that had that effect. I
had no particular interest in the flashback which I thought was
predictable and hackneyed, but I did like the various interactions on
the island and the setting in motion of what may turn out to be total
chaos, or at least a good sized civil war.
>
> I just applied for an internship at a publication I really like, and I am
> more pleased about that than anything. At least I acted. I mean I did
> something to try to change how hemmed in I feel, at the mercy of the
> system--and that is why I haven't been around. I had a more important
> deadline than a deadline, but I am bored, as well, with all these arcane
> details about the show. It cannot live up to the initial expectations
> surrounding it.
Congratulations. That is a far more important priority than a TV show
in any case. I'm still enjoying Lost. It's no Buffy, Angel, or
Firefly, but given what's on at the moment, it's at least something to
set the DVR for.
himiko
George W Harris
:
:tomcervo wrote:
:> Yeah, well, building your empire with a drug addict is a sure way to
:> secure power. Sleep deep, Sawyer, knowing that Charlie's got your back.
:> And as soon as Jin figures out what happened to his wife, you've got a
:> f*cking samurai on your case.
:
:Jin is Korean, not Japanese, so no samurai stuff.
Sawyer's never been too particular about which
Asian culture he associates Jin and Sun with.
--
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar." -Wash, 'Serenity'
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
George W Harris
<kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
:
:"tdciago" <tdc...@aol.com> wrote in message
:news:1139497887.6...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
:>
:> Lostzilla wrote:
:>> Charlie's character has definitely improved. His darker quality is much
:>> more interesting than the kindly young lad you saves Claire's baby and
:>> then gets stabbed in the back by the bitch.
:>
:> Honestly, I keep expecting Pippin to walk into a scene and bitch slap
:> him.
:>
:
:What about Frodo?
Last I saw he was eating hookers.
:
:-- Ken from Chicago
:
Ken from Chicago
"George W Harris" <gha...@mundsprung.com> wrote in message
news:v6vqu1tvqifrimed1...@4ax.com...
"It-it's okay, cap'n. I'm a leaf in the wind."
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
Copycat!
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
<him...@animail.net> wrote in message
news:1139618418....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
We always have BATTLESTAR GALACTICA.
-- Ken from Chicago
Hunter
mdr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> him...@animail.net wrote:
> > tomcervo wrote:
> > > Yeah, well, building your empire with a drug addict is a sure way to
> > > secure power. Sleep deep, Sawyer, knowing that Charlie's got your back.
> > > And as soon as Jin figures out what happened to his wife, you've got a
> > > f*cking samurai on your case.
> >
> > would be the equivalent of the Japanese samurai class, but it doesn't
> > have the same imagery; the Yangban were mostly scholars and
> > bureaucrats...so were the samurai by the end, but they kept their
> > warrior image better.
> >
> > Jin might go all Hwarang on Sawyer's case, I guess. The Hwarang were a
> > martial arts group around the 6th-10th century; it still survives today
> > or has been resurrected or something. The Hwarang weren't a class or
> > caste like the samurai though; it was something artistocratic young men
> > (and Jin isn't an aristocrat by any means) joined like a militia.
> > However, Hwarang-do is a bit like Bushi-do in that it's a code of
> > conduct rather than a particular fighting style.
> >
> > himiko (always ready to tell you more than you really wanted to know)
>
> really cares about.
>
> even was trying to suggest Jin was Japanese, he was pointing out that
> Jin was going to kick Sawyers @ss in a wording all us non Bushi-dos can
> understand.
---
Well, using Samurai in conjunction with Jin is to suggest that he was
Japanese, and after what the Japanese did to the Koreans, during and
before WWII, Jin would go Hwarang on you! :-)
--->Hunter
Ken from Chicago
"Tere" <terence...@nist.gov> wrote in message
news:1139588904.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
So 3 times out of 4 he shoots he kills.
-- Ken from Chicago
rob...@bestweb.net
> > that the Losties
> > had to be made to think it was their idea.
> To thinks what was their idea?
> --
Everything! Well, almost.
For example, opening the Hatch. For Hugo, going to Australia. For
Locke, "donating a kidney", going to Australia. For Jack, finding the
front section. For Charlie, going to Australia. For Sayid, pointing a
gun at Rousseau. For Charlie & Sayid, going to find the smoke. For
Michael, hunting for Walt. For everyone, watching Drowning Lady.
Robert
clau...@webtv.net
Some people have asked what happens when Sawyer goes to sleep, how will
he protect himself from being tortured, etc.
What if he recruits a few redshirts? He could give guns to a few guys
to protect him or keep people from following him. Just a thought.
Steven L.
> Steven L. wrote:
> [snip]
>
>>For Sawyer, the last straw(s) were: Jack once again ransacking his
>>tent, without even first *asking* Sawyer for the meds; and Jack and
>>Ana-Lucia trying to form their little army without even asking Sawyer or
>>Kate to join them. Why? Haven't Sawyer and Kate shown they can use
>>guns and fight too?
>
> [snip]
>
> Sawyer can use a gun? The only times they've shown him using a gun,
> except once, it has ended badly. 1) Sawyer kills the wrong guy in AUS.
> 2) Sawyer bungles killing the marshal. 3) Sawyer ends up with an ear
> full of rock salt when he pointed the gun at Zeke.
Sawyer got past the first big hurdle: He's taken human life. And he'll
do it again, without hesitation.
You put a gun in most untrained people's hands and they will freeze up
the moment it comes down to shooting to kill. Sawyer won't.
Locke could always work with Sawyer to further sharpen his shooting skills.
Joanne Marinelli
<him...@animail.net> wrote in message
news:1139618418....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Joanne Marinelli wrote:
>
> > I think I am only here for the asides anymore, in any case. My
enthusiasm
> > for the show begins to languish, I think because the subplots don't
really
> > satisfy me at this point. Lost cannot sustain itself as all things to
all
> > people, and the psychology of the players, and the coincidences
> > interconnecting them, has been done. 23rd Psalm was the only episode in
> > which the subplot really informed on the external action.
>
> Really? I felt this last episode was another that had that effect. I
> had no particular interest in the flashback which I thought was
> predictable and hackneyed, but I did like the various interactions on
> the island and the setting in motion of what may turn out to be total
> chaos, or at least a good sized civil war.
> >
The procedurals aren't static but eventually become stale solely because
they have to follow the play book, the CSI's, for instance. I only watch
them once in a while.
Lost, however, is deliberately static, self-contained subsets within a set.
Now, I have to give the producers credit, because 48 Days was closer to the
pilot episode, as both were event driven, so it is good they can mess with
the play book, but this sort of induced stasis creates its own problems.
Smokey only blows holes in the ground during sweeps or a near season finale.
The bad guys are rather too passive aggressive and only bump into the
survivors on special occasions. In 51 days, the Others nabbed Walt, raided
the Tailees, lost Ethan and Goodwin and suffered some collateral damage, and
only recently puffed out their chests at Jack. Then we get Charlie's guilt
trip and more of Sawyer's shredded conscience. It is kind of like actually
sitting through the entire 16 hours of Mirror Lion.
Joanne
Steven L.
> Lost, however, is deliberately static, self-contained subsets within a set.
> Now, I have to give the producers credit, because 48 Days was closer to the
> pilot episode, as both were event driven, so it is good they can mess with
> the play book, but this sort of induced stasis creates its own problems.
> Smokey only blows holes in the ground during sweeps or a near season finale.
> The bad guys are rather too passive aggressive and only bump into the
> survivors on special occasions. In 51 days, the Others nabbed Walt, raided
> the Tailees, lost Ethan and Goodwin and suffered some collateral damage, and
> only recently puffed out their chests at Jack.
I'm surprised that as a writer and as someone who prides herself on her
discriminating taste (you've told us in no uncertain terms what you
think of Stephen King), you would make this comment. Would you really
have preferred "Lost" to be a nonstop action-packed action-adventure
show, with every episode consisting of the Lostaways battling the Smoke
Monster and set-piece battles with The Others and drunken fistfights
among the Lostaways and always lots of shooting and mayhem?
"Lost" is like a sweeping but thoughtful epic novel, rather than a
potboiler or page-turner or thriller. As sci-fi novels go, it reminds
me more of "Dune" than of "Battlefield Earth" (and that's a good thing).
Joanne Marinelli
"Steven L." <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:5apHf.13932$rH5...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
The movie simply could not convey this, and Lost is beginning to suffer from
the same type of jet lag, in my estimation, because film simply cannot do
certain things, especially withholding answers and using character biography
as a delay tactic. We already know the major character real world arcs,
barring Libby, and I am sorry, but three more seasons of this, Claire's
pre-pregnancy, a Locke wheelchair segment, what have you, will eventually
become a bit droll.
King might have been right in his advice to let things end when they should,
and I am beginning to believe a mini-series might have been a better vehicle
for this kind of experiment. I would rather see Lost end before it winds up
becoming fodder for ridicule.
ABC could always bring it back later with new mysteries.
Joanne
Palpie
>
>Steven L. wrote:
>> > I was trying to remember if there was some bad blood between Kate &
>> > Locke that was making her timid to approach him herself. Although,
>> > wouldn't the con have worked even if Kate had been the one to warn
>> > Locke herself?
>>
>> Too high risk.
>>
>> First of all, Kate might not have been able to convince Locke as well as
>> Sawyer could--he's a smooth talker.
>>
>> Secondly, Sawyer wanted to keep an eye on Locke to make sure he really
>> did move all the guns out of the bunker. Kate is manipulative herself
>> (cf. her plot to bamboozle Sun to poison Jin) and if she had been in the
>> bunker, she might have bamboozled Locke into telling her where the guns
>> were--or even stealing a gun when he wasn't looking.
>
>Yeah, but that's all the more reason to go herself, and not tell Sawyer
>to go. That's why I still think that Kate *may have been* the one
>doing the conning. It would be interesting if we found out that Kate
>was the one who clued Jack in about Sawyer's stash of pills (all in
>Sawyer's best interest, of course),
Except of course we saw/heard Locke telling Jack about the missing
meds.
> just like she planted the seed of
>doubt in Jack's mind about Ana-Lucia.
Because Sawyer knew that she would after HE planted that seed of doubt
in her mind. And Jack suspected Ana for about 3 minutes. Then Sun
woke up, gave her story and Jack was back to "break out the guns, the
Others are coming."
>Maybe Kate instigated the rift
>in hopes that Jack would clean out Sawyer's tent and Sawyer would want
>revenge, in the form of getting the guns.
What does Kate gain from this?
>When Sawyer gave Kate all
>that info about the hood's fabric (and how the hell did he pick up on
>that in the dark?), it dawned on her that her con had worked.
Sawyer was bs-ing to get Kate to suspect Ana was behind the attack.
>Sawyer
>thought the whole gun con was his idea.
Because it was. There's no way Kate could have predicted Sawyer would
make a play for the guns.
>Maybe tracker Kate was later
>able to figure out where Sawyer's accomplice hid the guns by following
>a trail. It must have been difficult for Charlie to move all that
>stuff, especially without leaving a significant trail.
Charlie didn't move the stuff he just followed Locke to where the old
fool moved the stuff then told Sawyer where they were. Sawyer then
collected everything and hid it somewhere only he knows about.
And the simple fact is Kate isn't clever enough to come up with a
scheme like you're proposing.
>P.S. Who or what really convinced Jack to put all the guns in the
>vault?
Locke, or maybe the writers.
Ken from Chicago
"Steven L." <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:5apHf.13932$rH5...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Ah, a conflict of IDEAS instead of merely ACTIONS.
> --
> Steven D. Litvintchouk
> Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
>
> Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Joanne Marinelli" <Joz...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:CnuHf.377965$qk4.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Do you think their story(-ies) would end once they left The Island?
-- Ken from Chicago
Van Bagnol
Palpie <pal...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On 9 Feb 2006 12:06:55 -0800, "tdciago" <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >Steven L. wrote:
> >> > I was trying to remember if there was some bad blood between Kate &
> >> > Locke that was making her timid to approach him herself. Although,
> >> > wouldn't the con have worked even if Kate had been the one to warn
> >> > Locke herself?
> >>
> >> Too high risk.
> >>
> >> First of all, Kate might not have been able to convince Locke as well as
> >> Sawyer could--he's a smooth talker.
> >>
> >> Secondly, Sawyer wanted to keep an eye on Locke to make sure he really
> >> did move all the guns out of the bunker. Kate is manipulative herself
> >> (cf. her plot to bamboozle Sun to poison Jin) and if she had been in the
> >> bunker, she might have bamboozled Locke into telling her where the guns
> >> were--or even stealing a gun when he wasn't looking.
> >
> >Yeah, but that's all the more reason to go herself, and not tell Sawyer
> >to go. That's why I still think that Kate *may have been* the one
> >doing the conning. It would be interesting if we found out that Kate
> >was the one who clued Jack in about Sawyer's stash of pills (all in
> >Sawyer's best interest, of course),
>
> Except of course we saw/heard Locke telling Jack about the missing
> meds.
When did Locke tell Jack about missing meds? All I heard was Locke
telling Jack that it would be a good idea to lock the medicines in too,
Jack asked why, and the episode cut to a fresh scene.