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OT Merry Christmas

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the...@bigmailbox.net

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Dec 24, 2015, 2:36:37 PM12/24/15
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Have a joyous Christmas.

David Amicus

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Dec 24, 2015, 5:03:40 PM12/24/15
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On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 11:36:37 AM UTC-8, the...@bigmailbox.net wrote:
> Have a joyous Christmas.

The same to all!

Martin Edwards

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Dec 26, 2015, 2:30:03 AM12/26/15
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The Christmas no 1 in the UK was a version of "Bridge over Troubled
Water", and an amateur version at that. Maybe all is not quite lost.

--
Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must
painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman

jack

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Dec 26, 2015, 8:23:25 AM12/26/15
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And happy belated birthday greetings to Isaac Newton and Humphrey Bogart.

the...@bigmailbox.net

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Dec 26, 2015, 11:02:27 AM12/26/15
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On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 8:23:25 AM UTC-5, jack wrote:
> And happy belated birthday greetings to Isaac Newton and Humphrey Bogart.

I wonder what Bogart would be like playing Issac Newton.

the...@bigmailbox.net

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Dec 26, 2015, 11:03:29 AM12/26/15
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On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 2:30:03 AM UTC-5, Martin Edwards wrote:
> On 12/24/2015 10:03 PM, David Amicus wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 11:36:37 AM UTC-8, the...@bigmailbox.net wrote:
> >> Have a joyous Christmas.
> >
> > The same to all!
> >
> The Christmas no 1 in the UK was a version of "Bridge over Troubled
> Water",

Why?

> and an amateur version at that.

Why?

> Maybe all is not quite lost.

Why?

Martin Edwards

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Dec 27, 2015, 2:27:48 AM12/27/15
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You may not be familiar with the tripe that passes for pop music here.

jack

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Dec 27, 2015, 9:48:01 AM12/27/15
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Do you have a video link?

the...@bigmailbox.net

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Dec 27, 2015, 10:58:53 AM12/27/15
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On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 2:27:48 AM UTC-5, Martin Edwards wrote:
> On 12/26/2015 4:03 PM, the...@bigmailbox.net wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 2:30:03 AM UTC-5, Martin Edwards wrote:
> >> On 12/24/2015 10:03 PM, David Amicus wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, December 24, 2015 at 11:36:37 AM UTC-8, the...@bigmailbox.net wrote:
> >>>> Have a joyous Christmas.
> >>>
> >>> The same to all!
> >>>
> >> The Christmas no 1 in the UK was a version of "Bridge over Troubled
> >> Water",
> >
> > Why?
> >
> >> and an amateur version at that.
> >
> > Why?
> >
> >> Maybe all is not quite lost.
> >
> > Why?
> >
> You may not be familiar with the tripe that passes for pop music here.

It doesn't seem to be on this list.
http://www.billboard.com/charts/united-kingdom-songs

Wait. This thing?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markbeech/2015/12/25/nhs-choir-a-bridge-over-you-charity-single-beats-justin-bieber-to-u-k-christmas-number-1/

It looks like the thing is for sale. Bah! Humbug!
http://www.nhsno1.com/download

There's a part of the thing here.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/celebrity-news-video/12070079/Moment-NHS-Hospital-Choir-top-Christmas-charts.html

The NHS huh? I think this is contraindicated.

I need some ear bleach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq10bz3PxyY

Martin Edwards

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Dec 28, 2015, 2:35:09 AM12/28/15
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On 12/27/2015 2:48 PM, jack wrote:
> Do you have a video link?
>
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-35177842

Martin Edwards

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Dec 28, 2015, 2:36:53 AM12/28/15
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Okay, they started out as amateurs. Perhaps you do need some ear bleach
after listening to Popish twaddle For decades.

the...@bigmailbox.net

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Dec 28, 2015, 11:30:17 AM12/28/15
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Amateurs? Surely medical staff in the UK require some form of certification? It's only the outcomes we need worry about?



> Perhaps you do need some ear bleach
> after listening to Popish twaddle For decades.

Loki tells me that he'd rather listen to the Pope for all eternity than have to listen to NHS staff sing that song or maybe any song.

Martin Edwards

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Dec 29, 2015, 2:27:29 AM12/29/15
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Amateur singers. You are not thick, you are being deliberately obtuse.

>
>> Perhaps you do need some ear bleach
>> after listening to Popish twaddle For decades.
>
> Loki tells me that he'd rather listen to the Pope for all eternity than have to listen to NHS staff sing that song or maybe any song.
>
Because they are NHS staff? Would workers from the private and very
successful JVC be okay?

Martin Edwards

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Dec 29, 2015, 3:44:27 AM12/29/15
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I meant JCB:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jvc&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=KEeCVsaKFcH6aumJrYAC#q=jcb

jack

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Dec 29, 2015, 10:45:49 AM12/29/15
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Kind of amusing: Shawshank Redemption was on last night; that movie and the word 'obtuse' have become indivisibly linked in mind.

the...@bigmailbox.net

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Dec 29, 2015, 11:20:39 AM12/29/15
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I'm sure that's been set to music.


>
> >
> >> Perhaps you do need some ear bleach
> >> after listening to Popish twaddle For decades.
> >
> > Loki tells me that he'd rather listen to the Pope for all eternity than have to listen to NHS staff sing that song or maybe any song.
> >
> Because they are NHS staff? Would workers from the private and very
> successful JVC be okay?

I'm sure they'd have better things to do, what with not being supported by coercive taxation and all.


the...@bigmailbox.net

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Dec 29, 2015, 11:29:03 AM12/29/15
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Yikes. Clicking on that link got me a privacy message from Google. Europe is turning out to be so much fun. I was immediately reminded of https://www.thespainreport.com/articles/89-141212110913-spanish-newspaper-publishers-association-now-asks-government-to-help-stop-google-news-closure

JCB? The earth moving machinery firm? Bring on the noise.

the...@bigmailbox.net

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Dec 29, 2015, 11:30:27 AM12/29/15
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On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 10:45:49 AM UTC-5, jack wrote:
> Kind of amusing: Shawshank Redemption was on last night; that movie and the word 'obtuse' have become indivisibly linked in mind.

Me too! It's like that word has been ruined for me and then I think of Kubrick's Clockwork Orange. That music plays in my head. Perhaps we could find a way to treat those NHS singers....

David Amicus

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Dec 29, 2015, 5:33:21 PM12/29/15
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On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 7:45:49 AM UTC-8, jack wrote:
> Kind of amusing: Shawshank Redemption was on last night; that movie and the word 'obtuse' have become indivisibly linked in mind.

The thing I like about that movie is that there is no racism in it.

jack

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Dec 30, 2015, 9:52:44 AM12/30/15
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In the original King story Red is white. I guess when they decided to cast Morgan Freeman rather than introduce a new aspect to the story they just let his race go without comment. The movie BTW is quite superior to the novella.
Spoiler






In the original story there are several wardens and Andy just escapes w/o further ado.

David Amicus

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Dec 30, 2015, 5:07:24 PM12/30/15
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On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 6:52:44 AM UTC-8, jack wrote:
> In the original King story Red is white. I guess when they decided to cast Morgan Freeman rather than introduce a new aspect to the story they just let his race go without comment. The movie BTW is quite superior to the novella.


Thanks! Just another example of political correctness tokenism.

David Johnston

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Dec 30, 2015, 5:40:14 PM12/30/15
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That's not what "tokenism" means. It isn't tokenism when a black actor
is cast as a co-star.

David Amicus

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Dec 30, 2015, 6:23:52 PM12/30/15
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I view black tokenism as a show having a black actor "just cuz".

I remember some were upset that none of the "Friends" were black. So one season they added a black girlfriend.


I recently watched the movie "Noah". Afterwards I read reviews about it. Many complaints about the cast being all white, no blacks.

Awhile back I started to watch some movie about the Norse gods. However I stopped when one was played by a black actor. That to me is an example of tokenism.

David Johnston

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Dec 30, 2015, 7:45:05 PM12/30/15
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On 12/30/2015 4:23 PM, David Amicus wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 2:40:14 PM UTC-8, David Johnston wrote:
>> On 12/30/2015 3:07 PM, David Amicus wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 6:52:44 AM UTC-8, jack wrote:
>>>> In the original King story Red is white. I guess when they decided to cast Morgan Freeman rather than introduce a new aspect to the story they just let his race go without comment. The movie BTW is quite superior to the novella.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks! Just another example of political correctness tokenism.
>>>
>>
>> That's not what "tokenism" means. It isn't tokenism when a black actor
>> is cast as a co-star.
>
> I view black tokenism as a show having a black actor "just cuz".

Ah, so any show with a black actor is tokenism. I understand.

David Amicus

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Dec 30, 2015, 8:34:21 PM12/30/15
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Not all of course but today it seems that many shows just toss in a black character in an otherwise white cast show "just cuz".

David Johnston

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Dec 30, 2015, 9:08:39 PM12/30/15
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Doesn't apply to things where the lead or the co-star is black. If you
you are going to put in a black character "just cuz" then that character
is going to be a minor character. Horror movies are notorious for
including a black character who is invariably the first to die because
that's the smallest possible role. Law and Order had a black junior
lawyer who was there as a token, and got fired so they could have a
black female token instead when the suits told Wolf that he couldn't
have an all male cast. (A decision which probably saved Law and Order
from early cancellation). But when you cast Morgan Freeman as the
mentor to the lead, that's not because he's black. It's because Morgan
Freeman has an awesome "I know everything" voice.

Martin Edwards

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Dec 31, 2015, 2:28:20 AM12/31/15
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Someone turn that bot off.

Martin Edwards

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Dec 31, 2015, 2:29:31 AM12/31/15
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You are not dealing with an adult.

Martin Edwards

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Dec 31, 2015, 2:33:14 AM12/31/15
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How about L & O LA? That has both a young, attractive black woman and a
man of Mexican parentage in the DA's office and the DA is played by a
former hippy who got a haircut. That would engage all your prejudices,
well, not all, but a fair proportion.

Martin Edwards

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Dec 31, 2015, 2:35:06 AM12/31/15
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What is the reason for villains having either a posh British accent or
an archaic London one?

David Johnston

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Dec 31, 2015, 3:01:54 AM12/31/15
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Villains have aristocratic accents to convey the message that they are
wealthy, powerful and educated and therefore dangerous in a greater than
physical way.

the...@bigmailbox.net

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Dec 31, 2015, 2:47:36 PM12/31/15
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On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 9:52:44 AM UTC-5, jack wrote:
> In the original King story Red is white. I guess when they decided to cast Morgan Freeman rather than introduce a new aspect to the story they just let his race go without comment.


Not entirely without comment, although I haven't checked the references, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shawshank_Redemption#Cast

jack

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Dec 31, 2015, 11:10:14 PM12/31/15
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There she always some who are pissed when a King movie doesn't follow the book exactly (see The Shining, The Stand). My point is the Shawshank movie obviously brought on Freeman for his gravitas and his narrating voice but we don't really see him harassed in prison for his race. Most of our feelings on the movie come from what we bring to the movie, in which we can't ignore what we see on the screen. I don't think the movie would have the effect it has had over the years if it just showed this great bromance between two white guys. I am sure Durabont and the writers knew this.

And Happy New Year to all.

Martin Edwards

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Jan 1, 2016, 2:32:09 AM1/1/16
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How about 1950s cockney accents? Incidentally, they are often quite
good but way out of date.

jack

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Jan 1, 2016, 1:09:03 PM1/1/16
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That Jaguar commercial with its Brit villains was kind of amusing. I think that it is easy nowadays to pick on Brits because they're "safe": can't really accuse anyone of cultural appropriation by using them as bad guys, and then given the internal class history and external colonial history, and add in 1776, and you get a good case for portraying British as villains, or should we more accurately say, the English? But hey, Brits also have 007 to make up for the evil portrayals of their greater nationality, I guess with the exception of Lazenby and Brosnan.

the...@bigmailbox.net

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Jan 1, 2016, 3:02:44 PM1/1/16
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On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 11:10:14 PM UTC-5, jack wrote:
> There she always some who are pissed when a King movie doesn't follow the book exactly (see The Shining, The Stand). My point is the Shawshank movie obviously brought on Freeman for his gravitas and his narrating voice but we don't really see him harassed in prison for his race. Most of our feelings on the movie come from what we bring to the movie, in which we can't ignore what we see on the screen. I don't think the movie would have the effect it has had over the years if it just showed this great bromance between two white guys. I am sure Durabont and the writers knew this.

I think we ought to consider the possibility that both the movie and the book are fiction.
>
> And Happy New Year to all.

Thanks. To you too. Here's hoping for a great 2016.

the...@bigmailbox.net

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Jan 1, 2016, 3:04:01 PM1/1/16
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What do contemporary cockney accents sound like?

David Johnston

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Jan 2, 2016, 12:07:56 AM1/2/16
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I've only heard a few of them in American productions mostly from
gangsters who seem to be inspired by the Krays. Certainly fewer than
I've heard of rural southern American accents on bad guys in their
productions.

David Johnston

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Jan 2, 2016, 12:10:48 AM1/2/16
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Like her, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdcrdlhvdNI&feature=youtu.be

Martin Edwards

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Jan 2, 2016, 2:33:52 AM1/2/16
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Real cockney accents are more or less extinct. There are subtle
differences between North and South London, including the adjacent
county areas, eg the labial "r" is South. I have a North London accent
though I am technically not from London.

Martin Edwards

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Jan 2, 2016, 2:37:05 AM1/2/16
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Southern accents seem to vary quite a lot. From watching Swamp People
it strikes me that the Cajun accent, while slightly French, is not very
Southern, while North Louisiana is more the stereotyped shit kicking accent.

jack

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Jan 2, 2016, 11:07:33 AM1/2/16
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For white Southerners Cajun is an outlier due to its French roots. But it remains popular in the culture due to its accented speech. I remember on SNL a few years back they did a skit on its pronunciation that accentuated how the "onn" sound is prolonged as on guatonnteed or pigeonn.

The rest of the "South" is huge and accents and vocabulary vary. There is this so-called social theory that the reason the old South was so volatile was because it got the emigrants from the poorer regions of the UK and they brought their culture and accents along with them, while the predecessors of BBC English settled in the North.

the...@bigmailbox.net

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Jan 2, 2016, 3:24:47 PM1/2/16
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On Saturday, January 2, 2016 at 11:07:33 AM UTC-5, jack wrote:
> For white Southerners Cajun is an outlier due to its French roots. But it remains popular in the culture due to its accented speech. I remember on SNL a few years back they did a skit on its pronunciation that accentuated how the "onn" sound is prolonged as on guatonnteed or pigeonn.
>
> The rest of the "South" is huge and accents and vocabulary vary. There is this so-called social theory that the reason the old South was so volatile was because it got the emigrants from the poorer regions of the UK and they brought their culture and accents along with them, while the predecessors of BBC English settled in the North.

I think that's disputable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army#Ethnic_groups

Martin Edwards

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Jan 3, 2016, 2:28:03 AM1/3/16
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On 1/2/2016 4:07 PM, jack wrote:
> For white Southerners Cajun is an outlier due to its French roots. But it remains popular in the culture due to its accented speech. I remember on SNL a few years back they did a skit on its pronunciation that accentuated how the "onn" sound is prolonged as on guatonnteed or pigeonn.
>
> The rest of the "South" is huge and accents and vocabulary vary. There is this so-called social theory that the reason the old South was so volatile was because it got the emigrants from the poorer regions of the UK and they brought their culture and accents along with them, while the predecessors of BBC English settled in the North.
>
I once heard George Hamilton IV sing a song called "If you want me to".
The way he pronounced it sounded somewhat like Norfolk.

Martin Edwards

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Jan 3, 2016, 2:32:38 AM1/3/16
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The use of two conditionals in conditional sentences is German. In UK
English the first verb is simple past though, as with so much else,
American is taking over. Interestingly, Orwell noted this, though the
process was then in its infancy.

David Amicus

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Jan 3, 2016, 3:12:09 AM1/3/16
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Could you give a couple of examples please?

the...@bigmailbox.net

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Jan 3, 2016, 2:33:19 PM1/3/16
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On Sunday, January 3, 2016 at 3:12:09 AM UTC-5, David Amicus wrote:
> On Saturday, January 2, 2016 at 11:32:38 PM UTC-8, Martin Edwards wrote:
> > On 1/2/2016 8:24 PM, the...@bigmailbox.net wrote:
> > > On Saturday, January 2, 2016 at 11:07:33 AM UTC-5, jack wrote:
> > >> For white Southerners Cajun is an outlier due to its French roots. But it remains popular in the culture due to its accented speech. I remember on SNL a few years back they did a skit on its pronunciation that accentuated how the "onn" sound is prolonged as on guatonnteed or pigeonn.
> > >>
> > >> The rest of the "South" is huge and accents and vocabulary vary. There is this so-called social theory that the reason the old South was so volatile was because it got the emigrants from the poorer regions of the UK and they brought their culture and accents along with them, while the predecessors of BBC English settled in the North.
> > >
> > > I think that's disputable.
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army#Ethnic_groups
> > >
> > The use of two conditionals in conditional sentences is German. In UK
> > English the first verb is simple past though, as with so much else,
> > American is taking over. Interestingly, Orwell noted this, though the
> > process was then in its infancy.

> Could you give a couple of examples please?

I think you could just look at the sentence I wrote. I suspect it's possible that I'm being chastised for my writing style. Perhaps I might do better to refrain from the weasel words.

Martin Edwards

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Jan 4, 2016, 2:28:34 AM1/4/16
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US: If I would have gone to secondary modern school I would not have
learned so much.

UK: If I had gone to secondary modern school I would not have learned so
much.

Come to think of it, that was pluperfect, not simple past. Peccavi.

Martin Edwards

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Jan 4, 2016, 2:29:54 AM1/4/16
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Not by me. I was merely pointing out that there are differences between
British and American syntax.

jack

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Jan 4, 2016, 9:52:12 AM1/4/16
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Not so sure about the US sentence; those two "would"s don't ring well to my ears. Besides, simplifying both to "If I had gone" saves wordage and keeps the meaning.

David Amicus

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Jan 4, 2016, 8:19:55 PM1/4/16
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On Monday, January 4, 2016 at 6:52:12 AM UTC-8, jack wrote:
> Not so sure about the US sentence; those two "would"s don't ring well to my ears. Besides, simplifying both to "If I had gone" saves wordage and keeps the meaning.

Both work for me!

I don't know how it is in British schools but I think one reason we Americans are more wordy is because in school when we had writing assignments the teacher would tell us it had to contain so many words so we added extras!

I've noticed the same with many radio talk show hosts. They drag things out when fewer words would suffice.

Martin Edwards

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Jan 5, 2016, 2:29:02 AM1/5/16
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On 1/4/2016 2:52 PM, jack wrote:
> Not so sure about the US sentence; those two "would"s don't ring well to my ears. Besides, simplifying both to "If I had gone" saves wordage and keeps the meaning.
>
I'm pretty sure I've heard that on tv quite a few times.
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