AOQ Review 6-6: "Once More, With Feeling"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
(or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Joss Whedon
Well, this is the one. It's one of the most frequently spoken of
episodes of the series from what I can tell. I was a little
apprehensive about the idea, given that I don't watch musicals and
have no sense of humor or whimsy anywhere in my body. And the
vintage-musical opening credits didn't do much to reassure me - a
little too "precious," to use that adjective for one of the first
times ever.
OMWF first appeals to the wary viewer by starting out with a tune that
our star can sing. I don't think Gellar quite has the pipes to pull
her weight on some of the later numbers, but the first song is kept in
a low register and low-key tone that she can handle. "Alive" could
stand on its own as a wacky short piece summing up Where Things Are.
The entertainment value of Buffy angsting about nothing penetrating her
heart while staking participants in the song requires no explanation.
The second bit of reassurance comes with "so, did anybody ... uh ...
last night, you know, did anybody, um ... burst into song?" Here the
series is a bit of a slave to past precedent - the rule that's held
for previous Very Special Episodes (or, as I snarkily say. Art
Projects) is that however bizarre they get, they *must* fit into the
show's continuity. Even if the explanation is something as simple as
"a demon cast a spell," as it is here, that's important to
include. And close on the heels of that, there's Xander's "evil
witches!.../Which is ridiculous, 'cause witches they were
persecuted/Wicca good and love the earth and woman power and I'll be
over here." fit neatly into the rhythm of the song. From this point,
there's never any doubt that we'll still be getting _Buffy_-style
dialogue. It'll just be in song. OMWF will go on to seriously
attempt to touch on and in some cases advance the ongoing storylines.
We've mentioned this before, but one of the reasons BTVS is special
is that it has no episodes that are gimmick shows and nothing more.
Joss (and Chris et al) do a tremendous job with the music throughout
the episode, displaying some of the same skill for making any lyric
sound singable that was also evident in "The Exposition Song." The
episode is also put together in a way that makes sense (yep, that's
what I do. Hoping I would be swept away by the magic and gushing
instead of rambling about construction and plotting? Tough.) The song
selection and quantity of prominent numbers seem to match the actors'
abilities (I take it Hannigan's not so musically inclined?). For
instance, notice how Tara is kept buried amongst the group in the first
Magic Shop number. Then Benson can come out and surprise us with her
ability to belt it out like a pro once she gets her own song. Stuff
like that keeps things fresh. That particular song, "I'm Under
Your Spell" is good witchy whimsy that's one of the most
over-the-top bits of parody/homage of the musical genre (the kinda-dumb
movie version of _Mary Poppins_ comes to mind for me). But there's
another layer, since we fans are also watching this scene knowing what
Willow did last week to help keep Tara so devoted. She learns what
went down and does not seem pleased, all to variations of that melody,
but doesn't let her significant other know what she's discovered.
Interesting...
There're a few little looks into the rest of the world (with David F.
and Marti making musical cameos, according to the transcript), with the
basic conceit being that there're these big banal showstopping
numbers going on that we only see a few seconds of. Well, I smiled.
Some good dumb fun is needed to keep this episode from getting too
serious. That was sarcastic, but less so than you'd think, since
OMWF does get surprisingly gloomy at times. Speaking of dumb fun,
Xander and Anya have a little mostly-fluff routine (love the dancing!)
and get to deal with the little foibles that come up when you've
committed to living your life with someone and realize that their
little annoying habits aren't going to disappear. We knew Xander had
misgivings, but it seems Anya does too. I still say it's perfectly
natural for people in this stage of a relationship.
The show holds off on having Spike sing until the end of act two,
another example of the kind of buildup I've been talking about, since
it gets the viewer looking forward to seeing it. This is probably my
favorite part of the show. Marsters, dropping the accent for once, is
perfectly suited for the harder-edged piece and the character is well
suited for that kind of confusion. It helps that the song itself is
catchy as hell. What I was really enjoying, though, is that here more
than ever, the actors never stop acting. During the quieter bridge
portion, Spike is singing his lines hesitantly, with the same
inflection he would have if it were spoken dialogue, and Buffy is
actively reacting to every word. At all times, it's Spike and Buffy
playing these uncharacteristic roles, not Marsters and Gellar.
Once again, constant effort to keep things from getting dull - now
it's Dawn's turn to tell us about her worries, huh? Just going
through the cast one at a time? Nope, here's our villain and our
suspenseful act break. Actually, Sweet's routine is one of the few
times I found myself getting bored during OMWF... it's just a song
and dance number to me and goes on too long. Let's move on.
"I'm just worried this whole session's gonna turn into some training
montage from an 80's movie." "Ah. Well, if we hear any
inspirational power chords, we'll just lie down until they go away."
Giles's big solo act is a good one musically, and it's kind of a
sad character moment too. Not so fond of Buffy not hearing any of it
though, just because it goes against the "rules" set by the rest of
the episode in which everyone is aware of any music going on around
them.
There are a few parts in which people talk on top of each others'
lines in synchronized fashion, making it hard or impossible to hear
what's being sad. That's too bad, since it blocks some very good
dialogue. According to the transcriber, the following appear in OMWF,
and I didn't hear any of them:
"Well, I sang, but I had my guitar at the hotel... that would explain
the huge backing orchestra I couldn't see and the synchronized dancing
from the room service chaps."
"We did a whole duet about dish washing." "There was an entire
verse about the couscous." "It was very disturbing." [Yeah, I
know those aren't from the same conversational thread, but they go
together.]
"Like there were only three walls and not a fourth wall..."
Then there's more songs and stuff, which I don't feel like going
through one by one, except that the proud musical tradition of merging
seemingly separate songs together is nicely upheld by Tara and Giles.
The one thing that bothers me is the implication that it's somehow
important for Giles and the others to abandon Buffy while people are
bursting into flames and such. There are more important things to deal
with than whether Buffy can be independent enough. And remember when
she proved that even alone, she was the hero ("Becoming II")? And
remember the part where her attachments make her stronger than the
average bear, thus being a good thing for the world? Yeah. I'm glad
they get over it pretty quickly, at least.
The Buffyverse has a way to make secrets and feelings come out during
the novelty episodes, and here the big climax is Willow and the others
finally finding out what was going on with Buffy when she was spending
those months dead for tax reasons. This is hampered a little by a few
quick moments of weak/annoying singing ("heeeeeaven!!"), but the
concept of the realization is still powerful enough that I was
captivated by this part. Willow in particular, appropriately, looks so
thoroughly horrified. Maybe that'll learn her not to be messin'
with forces beyond reckonin'. Oh, and somewhere in there there's a
villain and how he operates and the mystery of who summoned him and so
on, but who cares?
Our hero and William get together this way, huh? And it doesn't seem
like it's just because of the gimmickry; I'll remember that scene
independently of the fact that it's a song. Back in "Crush," I
was convinced that some major things would have to change before they
could hook up. Naturally I was thinking about Spike changing, and he
has done that to a degree. What hadn't even occurred to me was that
a difference in Buffy could be the trigger. It makes total sense to me
that S6 Buffy, cast out of Heaven into a world of anhedonia,
desperately trying to feel something, might do things that would have
been unfathomable to S5 Buffy. Well played, show. On a more flippant
note: as we all know, screwing a vampire is indeed the correct antidote
for the inability to feel. Maybe Buffy got some advice about that from
Angel during their off-screen chat...
I should mention that Mrs. Q. fixated on the line "this isn't
real" and took it to suggest that maybe the kiss at the end is a
fantasy. Whereas I'm 99.4% sure that this line is about questioning
the reality of the emotion, not of the moment itself. I guess we'll
find out next week...
This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
- "They've got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses!/And what's
with all the carrots?"
- The minion not singing when "singing"
- "So, Dawn's in trouble. Must be Tuesday." [see, cuz the show
aired on Tuesdays. So it's like there are only three walls...]
- "I think this line's mostly filler"
- "She needs backup!"
- Spike trying to quietly escape mid-song
- "Grrr, arrrrrr"
Well, that was fun. Where do we go from here? It is a good question.
So...
One-sentence summary: Defies easy description.
AOQ rating: Excellent
[Season Six so far:
1) "Bargaining" - Decent
2) "After Life" - Good
3) "Flooded" - Decent
4) "Life Serial" - Good
5) "All The Way" - Good
6) "Once More, With Feeling" - Excellent]
MBangel10 (Melissa)
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> (or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
I don't have a lot of time to post but I just read your review and
bravo. I was worried that you were going to hate this one. It's my #1
episode of the series, the big kahuna, and my most my watched by far. I
loved everything about it, the fact that all of the actors did their own
vocals (SMG at first opted to have a professional singer take her place
but after reading the script, realized how important the storyline was
to her character and decided on going through with it), how much the
songs and scenario's really pushed the story forward, and how the songs
forced the characters to speak the truth. Love it, love it, love it.
JW made mention that a few of the cast members would gather at his house
to do shakespeare readings and such, and then after much alcohol was
consumed they'd start dabbling in music too. JM started bringing his
guitar and others would sing as well and JW decided that it would be a
good time to do the musical if he was ever going to do one. It was
always on the backburner in his mind but I guess those gatherings pushed
him in the right direction.
Have a lot more to say and hopefully I'll get a chance to later.
>
> Well, that was fun. Where do we go from here? It is a good question.
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Defies easy description.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
I'm going to go with Super-Cali-Fragil-Istic-Espi-Ali-Docious. :)
George W Harris
Xander: Uh, our dreams are coming true?
Giles: Dreams? That would be a musical comedy version of this.
From "Once More With Feeling":
Willow: I've got a theory, a kid is dreaming, and we're all stuck
inside his wacky Broadway nightmare!
Also, the three street sweepers in the background of
Xander-Anya-Giles walking scene are the same dancers who
player the puppet demons, and the couple dancing are the
choreographer and his assistant.
--
Real men don't need macho posturing to bolster their egos.
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.
burt...@hotmail.com
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Defies easy description.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Using your scale, I'd probably rate this one a Good. And probably a
middling Good at that. While most of the songs (with a couple of
notable exceptions) were good, especially given that they were all sung
by the cast members themselves, there are huge problems with the plot
that make it impossible for me to fully enjoy this episode.
First, Giles leaving. Giles is leaving when the most important person
in his life has died and been resurrected and is suffering god only
knows what kind of trauma because of that (and shows in this episode
that she's actually suicidal), when Dawn doesn't have any kind of
parental figure in her life and it's becoming increasingly clear that
she desperately needs one, and when Willow is having problems with
magic and is clearly headed for trouble on that score. I know that the
actor wanted to spend more time with his family, but Joss should have
come up with a better way to write him out. For Giles to leave this way
completely trashed his character for me, and it could easily have been
avoided with a little effort on Joss's part.
Second, Xander summoned the demon? *Xander?* Yeah, after BB&B, it's
very much in-character for Xander to cast spells, especially strange
spells he knows nothing about... not. Joss just decided not to think
too hard about who summoned Sweet (he basically admits this in the OMWF
commentary, where he says something like "Someone had to do it, and
Xander was unexpected"), and so he had the show abandon one of its most
basic themes (characters taking responsibility for their actions), he
had Xander cause the deaths of who knows how many citizens of Sunnydale
and not care about it, he had the rest of the gang *also* not care....
Yeah, that's some brilliant writing, there.
And by the way, what does this do to the Willow storyline? We're in the
middle of a serious plot about Willow using magic too often and for the
wrong reasons, and then we have Xander cast a spell that results in
people *dying* and no one says boo to him about it. Abg gung guvf vf n
ovt qrny, V fhccbfr, fvapr nyy gur frevbhfarff bs gur Jvyybj cybgyvar
trgf gbffrq bhg gur jvaqbj n srj rcvfbqrf sebz abj.
But the absolute worst thing was seeing all Buffy's friends stand there
and watch as Buffy began to catch fire while only Spike was allowed by
Joss to rush to her rescue. That was the end of "Buffy the Vampire
Slayer" and the beginning of "The Spike and Buffy Show." No thanks.
Elisi
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
Damn. The NG just ate my comment. *grumble* And I was in a hurry
already...
OK, keeping this short: This is the SEVENTH episode. You see it was
written *before* any of the other episodes as the _seventh_ one. Watch
the first 5 minutes of the 'Special behind the scenes thingy' and
you'll get the story. But still - the 7th episode. You shouldn't count
from the beginning, but from here, if you want to be pedantic!
A few other points:
- Yes the kiss was real.
- I love the fact that the fire trucks drive by *exactly* as they sing
'fire'.
- Spike finally got to save Buffy's life.
- Did you hear/read the last line of Marti's (the parking ticket lady)
song? "And I'm not wearing underwear..."
Must run - will be back later. Tomorrow at the very latest.
lpad...@voicenet.com
> our star can sing. I don't think Gellar quite has the pipes to pull
> her weight on some of the later numbers, but the first song is kept in
> a low register and low-key tone that she can handle. "Alive" could
> stand on its own as a wacky short piece summing up Where Things Are.
> The entertainment value of Buffy angsting about nothing penetrating her
> heart while staking participants in the song requires no explanation.
Although I don't comment much, I read your reviews faithfully and with
great anticipation, and you did something I was afraid you were going
to do! It's one of my pet peeves. You've obviously read, for reference,
the transcript by a certain person who shall remain nameless and who,
for the most part, does an excellent job at transcribing the episodes
but who didn't show an ounce of common sense in her OMWF transcript.
How do I know this, particularly that you read this person's
transcript? Because you referred to the first song as "Alive"!
You don't have buy the official script book or the soundtrack CD to
this episode to figure out what the title of this song is! And it is
*not* "Alive"! Anyone with more than one brain cell will notice that
the phrase "going through the motions" repeats itself three times
during this song (with a fourth appearance as a counterpoint later on
in "Walk Through the Fire") and is the only phrase that repeats itself
in the song. In the meantime, not only does the word "alive" appear
only once in the song (as the very last word) but only that once in the
entire episode. Yet the transcriber insisted on referring to the song
as "Alive" not only in her transcript of OMWF but in a later transcript
(I won't spoil it here) where it pops up again. (And I don't think
anyone who hadn't read her OMWF script would know what the hell she was
talking about in the later episode.)
Common sense is an uncommon commodity. Just a pet peeve of mine. Sorry!
If the song for some reason had to be titled anything but "Going
Through the Motions", it should have been "She's Not Even Half the Girl
She-- OWWW!" (which IMHO is the funniest line not just of the episode
but of the entire series!)
drifter
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> (or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
/some snippage occurs throughout/
> Joss (and Chris et al) do a tremendous job with the music throughout
> the episode, displaying some of the same skill for making any lyric
> sound singable that was also evident in "The Exposition Song." The
> episode is also put together in a way that makes sense (yep, that's
> what I do. Hoping I would be swept away by the magic and gushing
> instead of rambling about construction and plotting? Tough.) The
> song selection and quantity of prominent numbers seem to match the
> actors' abilities (I take it Hannigan's not so musically inclined?).
She really, really didn't want to sing. At the time, there were a lot of
snarky comments on the newsgroup about her ability. I thought she was
better than some people who make their *living* singing, but I'll mention
no names at this time.
> For instance, notice how Tara is kept buried amongst the group in the
> first Magic Shop number. Then Benson can come out and surprise us
> with her ability to belt it out like a pro once she gets her own
> song.
Joss had her sing far above her normal register for this song. Seems
to have worked well. Geez, the guy's good at *everything.* It helps,
though, that Amber has a beautiful voice.
> Stuff like that keeps things fresh. That particular song,
> "I'm Under Your Spell" is good witchy whimsy that's one of the most
> over-the-top bits of parody/homage of the musical genre (the
> kinda-dumb movie version of _Mary Poppins_ comes to mind for me).
> But there's another layer, since we fans are also watching this scene
> knowing what Willow did last week to help keep Tara so devoted. She
> learns what went down and does not seem pleased, all to variations of
> that melody, but doesn't let her significant other know what she's
> discovered. Interesting...
I *loved* the song "I'm Under Your Spell." When I bought the sound-
track to the episode, I kept the CD in my car stereo for a couple of
months. It was like being able to watch the show in my head every
day on the way to and from work. "I'm Under Your Spell" is still on
my iPod.
> Once again, constant effort to keep things from getting dull - now
> it's Dawn's turn to tell us about her worries, huh? Just going
> through the cast one at a time? Nope, here's our villain and our
> suspenseful act break.
MT was nervous about singing, but was taking dance classes, so Joss
gave her a dance number.
> Actually, Sweet's routine is one of the few
> times I found myself getting bored during OMWF... it's just a song
> and dance number to me and goes on too long. Let's move on.
I thought the guy had some pretty good moves.
> "I'm just worried this whole session's gonna turn into some training
> montage from an 80's movie." "Ah. Well, if we hear any
> inspirational power chords, we'll just lie down until they go away."
> Giles's big solo act is a good one musically, and it's kind of a
> sad character moment too. Not so fond of Buffy not hearing any of it
> though, just because it goes against the "rules" set by the rest of
> the episode in which everyone is aware of any music going on around
> them.
It does, however, follow the rules of musicals, where people standing
right next to the singer sometimes don't hear anything.
> Then there's more songs and stuff, which I don't feel like going
> through one by one, except that the proud musical tradition of merging
> seemingly separate songs together is nicely upheld by Tara and Giles.
> The one thing that bothers me is the implication that it's somehow
> important for Giles and the others to abandon Buffy while people are
> bursting into flames and such. There are more important things to
> deal with than whether Buffy can be independent enough. And remember
> when she proved that even alone, she was the hero ("Becoming II")?
> And remember the part where her attachments make her stronger than the
> average bear, thus being a good thing for the world? Yeah. I'm glad
> they get over it pretty quickly, at least.
Giles, as the resident Father Figure, is now required to bail on her.
> The Buffyverse has a way to make secrets and feelings come out during
> the novelty episodes, and here the big climax is Willow and the others
> finally finding out what was going on with Buffy when she was spending
> those months dead for tax reasons. This is hampered a little by a few
> quick moments of weak/annoying singing ("heeeeeaven!!"),
That one was nearly physically painful, wasn't it?
> but the
> concept of the realization is still powerful enough that I was
> captivated by this part. Willow in particular, appropriately, looks
> so thoroughly horrified. Maybe that'll learn her not to be messin'
> with forces beyond reckonin'.
Yeah, no doubt there'll be no more magic on THIS show.
> Oh, and somewhere in there there's a
> villain and how he operates and the mystery of who summoned him and so
> on, but who cares?
I think you're gonna find out who cares. That can of worms is a
particularly
large one around here. Or would it be a small one, because the worms don't
fit back in? Well, whatever.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - "They've got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses!/And what's
> with all the carrots?"
> - The minion not singing when "singing"
> - "So, Dawn's in trouble. Must be Tuesday." [see, cuz the show
> aired on Tuesdays. So it's like there are only three walls...]
> - "I think this line's mostly filler"
> - "She needs backup!"
Did you notice Tara almost spin into a post near the middle of that
song?
> - Spike trying to quietly escape mid-song
> - "Grrr, arrrrrr"
"I gave birth to a pterodactyl."
"Oh, my god! Did it sing?"
And, while not funny, no mention of "Spread beneath my Willow tree?"
Or "You make me come . . . plete?"
> Well, that was fun. Where do we go from here? It is a good question.
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Defies easy description.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Absolutely.
--
Kel
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
beloved
Well, burt, SURPRISE - potentially, this might be the only time we'll
ever agree. But, I'm with you on these two points. The Xander one
bothered me less for a number of reasons but basically because Xander
didn't really refuse to accept responsibility, rather it was like it
ended up as if the situation never actually happened as no one ever
thought about it or mentioned it again - except for the fans of course,
who NEVER FORGET (or forgive?).
The Giles scenario, however, was truly disappointing (even with
wonderful songs). I guess I kind of understand their reasons for going
this route but it's really a character-destroying choice, IMO (nybat
jvgu n pbhcyr bguref va F7 sbe zr) rfcrpvnyyl va gur snpr bs Ohssl
yvgrenyyl orttvat uvz gb fgnl arkg rc. And the writer's choice was
heartbreaking even to me who was only 'just fond' of Giles.
None of this hurt the ep for me, tho. This is one of my favorites, one
I've watched the most. And it just gets better and better with each
viewing, IMO, as the songs/music get more and more familiar.
Lidia
Don Sample
George W Harris <gha...@mundsprung.com> wrote:
> From "Nightmares":
>
> Xander: Uh, our dreams are coming true?
>
> Giles: Dreams? That would be a musical comedy version of this.
>
> From "Once More With Feeling":
>
> Willow: I've got a theory, a kid is dreaming, and we're all stuck
> inside his wacky Broadway nightmare!
>
> Also, the three street sweepers in the background of
> Xander-Anya-Giles walking scene are the same dancers who
> player the puppet demons.
They were also the demon and the two vampires in the opening number.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Mauro
"drifter" <ne...@home.net> wrote in message
news:cMqBg.208$eB7...@fe07.lga...
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > The Buffyverse has a way to make secrets and feelings come out during
> > the novelty episodes, and here the big climax is Willow and the others
> > finally finding out what was going on with Buffy when she was spending
> > those months dead for tax reasons. This is hampered a little by a few
> > quick moments of weak/annoying singing ("heeeeeaven!!"),
>
> That one was nearly physically painful, wasn't it?
That note clashes because it is supposed to clash. It's a note that is not
in the key the song is written in, and the note is written to cause that
kind of unsettled feeling.
In other words, if you don't like how the phrase, "they pulled me out of
heaven, I think I was in heaven" sounds, it isn't SMG's fault, it's Joss
Whedon's. :-)
If you want a more technical explanation, the pitch on the second syllable
of "heaven" is a tritone from the tonic. It is a half-step higher that the
normal fourth scale degree and a half-step lower than the normal fifth scale
degree. In the middle ages, this was called the devil's interval.
Don Sample
wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> > threads.
> >
> >
> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> > (or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
> > Writer: Joss Whedon
> > Director: Joss Whedon
> >
> > Once again, constant effort to keep things from getting dull - now
> > it's Dawn's turn to tell us about her worries, huh? Just going
> > through the cast one at a time? Nope, here's our villain and our
> > suspenseful act break.
>
> MT was nervous about singing, but was taking dance classes, so Joss
> gave her a dance number.
I believe that it was in response to this episode that DOMDD (Dirty Old
Men For Dawn Dancing) was first founded. She has some nice hip action
going during her number with Sweet (Played by Three Time Tony Award
Winning Hinton Battle.)
>
> > Actually, Sweet's routine is one of the few
> > times I found myself getting bored during OMWF... it's just a song
> > and dance number to me and goes on too long. Let's move on.
>
> I thought the guy had some pretty good moves.
Joss doesn't think he did a very good job with the blocking and
cinematography for that number.
> > The Buffyverse has a way to make secrets and feelings come out during
> > the novelty episodes, and here the big climax is Willow and the others
> > finally finding out what was going on with Buffy when she was spending
> > those months dead for tax reasons. This is hampered a little by a few
> > quick moments of weak/annoying singing ("heeeeeaven!!"),
>
> That one was nearly physically painful, wasn't it?
I think it was supposed to be. It's supposed to be a sour note. That's
the way Buffy feels about the whole situation.
cry...@panix.com
> "drifter" <ne...@home.net> wrote:
> > Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> >
> > > weak/annoying singing ("heeeeeaven!!"),
> >
> > That one was nearly physically painful, wasn't it?
>
> That note clashes because it is supposed to clash. It's a note
> that is not in the key the song is written in, and the note is
> written to cause that kind of unsettled feeling.
>
> In other words, if you don't like how the phrase, "they pulled
> me out of heaven, I think I was in heaven" sounds, it isn't
> SMG's fault, it's Joss Whedon's. :-)
>
> If you want a more technical explanation, the pitch on the
> second syllable of "heaven" is a tritone from the tonic. It is
> a half-step higher that the normal fourth scale degree and a
> half-step lower than the normal fifth scale degree. In the
> middle ages, this was called the devil's interval.
For me, the accidental is a real tear-jerker. I was confused when
I found out other people thought it was accidental!
--
-Crystal
Paul Hyett
>
>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
>
Not for me : Utter crap!
--
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
Horace LaBadie
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> She learns what
> went down
That would be the cut to the floating-in-the-bedroom scene.
> Actually, Sweet's routine is one of the few
> times I found myself getting bored during OMWF... it's just a song
> and dance number to me and goes on too long. Let's move on.
Hinton Battle, one of the all-time-great-we're-lucky-to-get-him Broadway
stars, and you are bored.
> Not so fond of Buffy not hearing any of it
> though, just because it goes against the "rules" set by the rest of
> the episode in which everyone is aware of any music going on around
> them.
No, it obeys the stage convention for soliloquies. Buffy is in slo-mo to
indicate the disconnect visually. Giles is externalizing his conflict
for the audience, but it is hidden from her.
> This is hampered a little by a few
> quick moments of weak/annoying singing ("heeeeeaven!!")
A deliberate musical device that reflects the sentiment of the lyric.
HWL
lpad...@voicenet.com
> > gave her a dance number.
>
> I believe that it was in response to this episode that DOMDD (Dirty Old
> Men For Dawn Dancing) was first founded. She has some nice hip action
> going during her number with Sweet (Played by Three Time Tony Award
> Winning Hinton Battle.)
Actually, as a charter member of DOMFDD, I can tell you that there
wasn't anything particularly arousing about Dawn's appearance in this
episode.
SPOILER WARNING AND SPACE FOR AOQ!
DOMFDD didn't start until a year later during early S7 with the nearly
back to back episodes of her gyrating with RJ at The Bronze in "Him"
and her solo gyrations to the Salsa music in CWDP.
burt...@hotmail.com
> The Giles scenario, however, was truly disappointing (even with
> wonderful songs). I guess I kind of understand their reasons for going
> this route but it's really a character-destroying choice, IMO (nybat
> jvgu n pbhcyr bguref va F7 sbe zr) rfcrpvnyyl va gur snpr bs Ohssl
> yvgrenyyl orttvat uvz gb fgnl arkg rc. And the writer's choice was
> heartbreaking even to me who was only 'just fond' of Giles.
Especially when it would have been so easy to come up with a better,
more plausible reason for Giles leaving. Have him discover an
apocalyptic prophecy that he needed to research immediately but none of
the necessary books were in Sunnydale. Or have him go back to London to
deal with a political struggle at the Watchers Council that would have
serious negative consequences for Buffy if the hard-liners won.
But, Joss decided that Buffy's life had to suck this season, and so she
had to be abandoned, regardless of the damage done to Giles's
character.
> None of this hurt the ep for me, tho. This is one of my favorites, one
> I've watched the most. And it just gets better and better with each
> viewing, IMO, as the songs/music get more and more familiar.
Well, I do like OMWF. Except for the plot. And some of the songs. I
think it was a great achievement to get it on TV, and I do think it was
good. Just not great.
Shuggie
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> (or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
> Well, this is the one. It's one of the most frequently spoken of
> episodes of the series from what I can tell. I was a little
> apprehensive about the idea, given that I don't watch musicals and
> have no sense of humor or whimsy anywhere in my body. And the
> vintage-musical opening credits didn't do much to reassure me - a
> little too "precious," to use that adjective for one of the first
> times ever.
>
> OMWF first appeals to the wary viewer by starting out with a tune that
> our star can sing. I don't think Gellar quite has the pipes to pull
> her weight on some of the later numbers, but the first song is kept in
> a low register and low-key tone that she can handle. "Alive" could
> stand on its own as a wacky short piece summing up Where Things Are.
> The entertainment value of Buffy angsting about nothing penetrating her
> heart while staking participants in the song requires no explanation.
>
Perhaps not though it is interesting to learn that Joss specifically set
out to do homages to different styles of musical. This opening song is
classic Disney. It's where the hero tells you exactly what's
wrong/lacking in his/her life.
> The second bit of reassurance comes with "so, did anybody ... uh ...
> last night, you know, did anybody, um ... burst into song?" Here the
> series is a bit of a slave to past precedent - the rule that's held
> for previous Very Special Episodes (or, as I snarkily say. Art
> Projects) is that however bizarre they get, they *must* fit into the
> show's continuity. Even if the explanation is something as simple as
> "a demon cast a spell," as it is here, that's important to
> include. And close on the heels of that, there's Xander's "evil
> witches!.../Which is ridiculous, 'cause witches they were
> persecuted/Wicca good and love the earth and woman power and I'll be
> over here." fit neatly into the rhythm of the song. From this point,
> there's never any doubt that we'll still be getting _Buffy_-style
> dialogue. It'll just be in song. OMWF will go on to seriously
> attempt to touch on and in some cases advance the ongoing storylines.
> We've mentioned this before, but one of the reasons BTVS is special
> is that it has no episodes that are gimmick shows and nothing more.
>
Did you notice how Giles' initial theory ("a dancing demon") was
actually correct?
"I'll never tell" is another example of mimicing a specific genre. This
is one from the golden age. I mean the "fall on the couch laughing" end
to the song is straight out of Singing in the Rain.
> The show holds off on having Spike sing until the end of act two,
> another example of the kind of buildup I've been talking about, since
> it gets the viewer looking forward to seeing it. This is probably my
> favorite part of the show. Marsters, dropping the accent for once, is
> perfectly suited for the harder-edged piece and the character is well
> suited for that kind of confusion. It helps that the song itself is
> catchy as hell. What I was really enjoying, though, is that here more
> than ever, the actors never stop acting. During the quieter bridge
> portion, Spike is singing his lines hesitantly, with the same
> inflection he would have if it were spoken dialogue, and Buffy is
> actively reacting to every word. At all times, it's Spike and Buffy
> playing these uncharacteristic roles, not Marsters and Gellar.
>
> Once again, constant effort to keep things from getting dull - now
> it's Dawn's turn to tell us about her worries, huh? Just going
> through the cast one at a time? Nope, here's our villain and our
> suspenseful act break. Actually, Sweet's routine is one of the few
> times I found myself getting bored during OMWF... it's just a song
> and dance number to me and goes on too long. Let's move on.
>
I love Sweet's song. My favourite piece of Joss writing is the line "I
can bring whole cities to ruin/and still have time to get a soft-shoe
in"
> "I'm just worried this whole session's gonna turn into some training
> montage from an 80's movie." "Ah. Well, if we hear any
> inspirational power chords, we'll just lie down until they go away."
Remind me - have you seen the BtVS movie? Anyway this is a none-too
subtle reference to that.
> Giles's big solo act is a good one musically, and it's kind of a
> sad character moment too. Not so fond of Buffy not hearing any of it
> though, just because it goes against the "rules" set by the rest of
> the episode in which everyone is aware of any music going on around
> them.
>
It's not about the "rules", it's a character thing. She's not listening
to Giles, she assumes he'll always just be there to bail her out with
things like Dawn's need for discipline.
Or - she's just getting her own back for him not listening in Life
Serial.
> There are a few parts in which people talk on top of each others'
> lines in synchronized fashion, making it hard or impossible to hear
> what's being sad. That's too bad, since it blocks some very good
> dialogue.
But also means the show rewards re-watching :)
> According to the transcriber, the following appear in OMWF,
> and I didn't hear any of them:
>
> "Well, I sang, but I had my guitar at the hotel... that would explain
> the huge backing orchestra I couldn't see and the synchronized dancing
> from the room service chaps."
>
> "We did a whole duet about dish washing." "There was an entire
> verse about the couscous." "It was very disturbing." [Yeah, I
> know those aren't from the same conversational thread, but they go
> together.]
>
> "Like there were only three walls and not a fourth wall..."
>
> Then there's more songs and stuff, which I don't feel like going
> through one by one, except that the proud musical tradition of merging
> seemingly separate songs together is nicely upheld by Tara and Giles.
> The one thing that bothers me is the implication that it's somehow
> important for Giles and the others to abandon Buffy while people are
> bursting into flames and such. There are more important things to deal
> with than whether Buffy can be independent enough. And remember when
> she proved that even alone, she was the hero ("Becoming II")? And
> remember the part where her attachments make her stronger than the
> average bear, thus being a good thing for the world? Yeah. I'm glad
> they get over it pretty quickly, at least.
>
Yeah there is that.
> The Buffyverse has a way to make secrets and feelings come out during
> the novelty episodes, and here the big climax is Willow and the others
> finally finding out what was going on with Buffy when she was spending
> those months dead for tax reasons. This is hampered a little by a few
> quick moments of weak/annoying singing ("heeeeeaven!!"),
I'm reliably told that this is another of those specific homages.
Aparently this kind of 'difficult' song became popular in Broadway
musicals of the 90s, Rent and others. Or so I'm told.
>but the
> concept of the realization is still powerful enough that I was
> captivated by this part. Willow in particular, appropriately, looks so
> thoroughly horrified. Maybe that'll learn her not to be messin'
> with forces beyond reckonin'. Oh, and somewhere in there there's a
> villain and how he operates and the mystery of who summoned him and so
> on, but who cares?
>
Who cares? Quite a few people actually. The whole "Did Xander really
summon Sweet?" is one of those annoying discussions that just won't die.
(Yes I know I've just possibly re-ignited it but hey it'd come back
anyway)
> Our hero and William get together this way, huh? And it doesn't seem
> like it's just because of the gimmickry; I'll remember that scene
> independently of the fact that it's a song. Back in "Crush," I
> was convinced that some major things would have to change before they
> could hook up. Naturally I was thinking about Spike changing, and he
> has done that to a degree. What hadn't even occurred to me was that
> a difference in Buffy could be the trigger. It makes total sense to me
> that S6 Buffy, cast out of Heaven into a world of anhedonia,
> desperately trying to feel something, might do things that would have
> been unfathomable to S5 Buffy. Well played, show. On a more flippant
> note: as we all know, screwing a vampire is indeed the correct antidote
> for the inability to feel. Maybe Buffy got some advice about that from
> Angel during their off-screen chat...
>
> I should mention that Mrs. Q. fixated on the line "this isn't
> real" and took it to suggest that maybe the kiss at the end is a
> fantasy. Whereas I'm 99.4% sure that this line is about questioning
> the reality of the emotion, not of the moment itself. I guess we'll
> find out next week...
>
I took it the same way as you.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - "They've got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses!/And what's
> with all the carrots?"
> - The minion not singing when "singing"
> - "So, Dawn's in trouble. Must be Tuesday." [see, cuz the show
> aired on Tuesdays. So it's like there are only three walls...]
> - "I think this line's mostly filler"
> - "She needs backup!"
> - Spike trying to quietly escape mid-song
> - "Grrr, arrrrrr"
>
> Well, that was fun. Where do we go from here? It is a good question.
>
Is it down to the lake I fear?
(that's one for the Brits or a certain age)
--
Shuggie
my blog - http://shuggie.livejournal.com/
Shuggie
> beloved wrote:
>> The Giles scenario, however, was truly disappointing (even with
>> wonderful songs). I guess I kind of understand their reasons for going
>> this route but it's really a character-destroying choice, IMO (nybat
>> jvgu n pbhcyr bguref va F7 sbe zr) rfcrpvnyyl va gur snpr bs Ohssl
>> yvgrenyyl orttvat uvz gb fgnl arkg rc. And the writer's choice was
>> heartbreaking even to me who was only 'just fond' of Giles.
>
> Especially when it would have been so easy to come up with a better,
> more plausible reason for Giles leaving. Have him discover an
> apocalyptic prophecy that he needed to research immediately but none of
> the necessary books were in Sunnydale. Or have him go back to London to
> deal with a political struggle at the Watchers Council that would have
> serious negative consequences for Buffy if the hard-liners won.
>
> But, Joss decided that Buffy's life had to suck this season, and so she
> had to be abandoned, regardless of the damage done to Giles's
> character.
>
I've some sympathy with this pov but I don't think "V'q yvxr gb grfg
gung gurbel" jbexf dhvgr nf jryy vs lbh xabj sbe fher ur'f pbzvat onpx.
William George Ferguson
>threads.
>
>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
>(or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
>Writer: Joss Whedon
>Director: Joss Whedon
>
>Well, this is the one. It's one of the most frequently spoken of
>episodes of the series from what I can tell. I was a little
>apprehensive about the idea, given that I don't watch musicals and
>have no sense of humor or whimsy anywhere in my body. And the
>vintage-musical opening credits didn't do much to reassure me - a
>little too "precious," to use that adjective for one of the first
>times ever.
Yes, JW was going for MGM musical type opening credits here, but there
were practical as well as aesthetic reasons. Even after massive cutting,
the episode still came in long, so a shortened opening credit gave more
time for the ep. Also, JW didn't want to put the opening credit between
the teaser and the show (same sort of thing as Restless), so he set it up
this way for that purpose also.
Speaking of cuts, the show as originally aired, and as you saw it on the
DVD, runs 50 minutes instead of 42 (meaning that when aired, with
commercials, it was 68 minutes instead of 60). There is a second edit
version that was gutt... trimmed down to 42 minutes for subsequent
airings. I'll comment here and there and what was cut for the 60(42)
minute version.
>OMWF first appeals to the wary viewer by starting out with a tune that
>our star can sing. I don't think Gellar quite has the pipes to pull
>her weight on some of the later numbers, but the first song is kept in
>a low register and low-key tone that she can handle. "Alive" could
>stand on its own as a wacky short piece summing up Where Things Are.
>The entertainment value of Buffy angsting about nothing penetrating her
>heart while staking participants in the song requires no explanation.
Interesting factoid, the three stuntpeople who played the goat-demon and
his vampire minions also played the streetsweepers (one of my 532 most
favorite background bits in this ep) and the henchpuppets.
In the 60 minute cut, the entire opening overture was cut, with the eps
starting with "Every single night..."
>The second bit of reassurance comes with "so, did anybody ... uh ...
>last night, you know, did anybody, um ... burst into song?" Here the
>series is a bit of a slave to past precedent - the rule that's held
>for previous Very Special Episodes (or, as I snarkily say. Art
>Projects) is that however bizarre they get, they *must* fit into the
>show's continuity. Even if the explanation is something as simple as
>"a demon cast a spell," as it is here, that's important to
>include. And close on the heels of that, there's Xander's "evil
>witches!.../Which is ridiculous, 'cause witches they were
>persecuted/Wicca good and love the earth and woman power and I'll be
>over here." fit neatly into the rhythm of the song. From this point,
>there's never any doubt that we'll still be getting _Buffy_-style
>dialogue. It'll just be in song. OMWF will go on to seriously
>attempt to touch on and in some cases advance the ongoing storylines.
>We've mentioned this before, but one of the reasons BTVS is special
>is that it has no episodes that are gimmick shows and nothing more.
OMWF is one of the least stand-alone musical episodes done for a series,
any series. The only one comparable to it is Xena's "Bitter Suite" (the
other Xena musical ep, "Lyre, Lyre" was pretty much completely
stand-alone). This ep is not just arc-heavy, it's totally about the arcs.
A couple of major setups are paid off, and the three major arcs for the
remainder of the season are set up here.
In the 60 minute cut, the entire "What can't we face" part of "I've got a
Theory" is out.
>Joss (and Chris et al) do a tremendous job with the music throughout
>the episode, displaying some of the same skill for making any lyric
>sound singable that was also evident in "The Exposition Song." The
>episode is also put together in a way that makes sense (yep, that's
>what I do. Hoping I would be swept away by the magic and gushing
>instead of rambling about construction and plotting? Tough.) The song
>selection and quantity of prominent numbers seem to match the actors'
>abilities (I take it Hannigan's not so musically inclined?).
Hannigan said she threatened to call in sick every day if they made her
sing. Pretty much everyone agreed that she was having major panic attacks
about even the little she did. (for those not keeping count, 6 lines, less
even than Trachtenberg, who bargained with JW to let her dance rather than
sing).
There are two ringers, Tony Head, who came from British Musical theatre,
including playing Frank-N-Furter in a West End production of Rocky Horror
and replacing his brother Murray Head in the West End production of Chess,
and Hinton Battle (usually identified by his full name "Only living three
time Tony Award winner Hinton Battle") as the singing, dancing demon Sweet
(never named in the show, but named in the credits). Marsters has fronted
a rock band on and off for several years, but the real surprise (for us,
Whedon knew) was Benson. The interesting thing is that Whedon
deliberately had her sing her big number a half-octave above her register.
Her natural register is present in the 'Wish I Could Stay' reprise.
If you can come across it on the web,check out her performance of
"Toucha-Touch Me" from the Rocky Horror 25th Anniversary special (and
check out Tony Head doing "You Better Wise Up, Janet Weiss", in full
costume, from the special)
>For
>instance, notice how Tara is kept buried amongst the group in the first
>Magic Shop number. Then Benson can come out and surprise us with her
>ability to belt it out like a pro once she gets her own song. Stuff
>like that keeps things fresh. That particular song, "I'm Under
>Your Spell" is good witchy whimsy that's one of the most
>over-the-top bits of parody/homage of the musical genre (the kinda-dumb
>movie version of _Mary Poppins_ comes to mind for me).
The first two verses were definitely going for the Disney Musical feel,
the 'spirits and charms in the air' is massively disneyesque (yes it's a
word).
The last verse, not so much.
The moon unto the tide, I can feel you inside
I'm under your spell
Surging like the sea, clutching you so helplessly
I break with every swell
Lost in ecstasy, spread beneath my Willow tree
You make me complete
youmakemecomplete,youmakemecomplete,youmakeme...
Whedon really expected to get some negative feedback from the network
here, but not a word.
(if the 'find out who's in Buffy's body spell, is hereinafter known as the
Willow Orgasm Spell, this would be known as the Tara Orgasm Song)
In the 60 minute edit, they didn't cut any of the song, but they cut some
of Dawn and Xander's dialogue in the follow-up scene
>But there's
>another layer, since we fans are also watching this scene knowing what
>Willow did last week to help keep Tara so devoted. She learns what
>went down and does not seem pleased, all to variations of that melody,
>but doesn't let her significant other know what she's discovered.
>Interesting...
Oh, she let's Willow know that she's about 20 miles past pissed at her
pretty much immediately, but it's all non-verbal communication, there
isn't the time (and she's way to angry) to discuss right at that point.
But Willow knows that she has seriously screwed the pooch 'somehow' with
Tara from the arrival of Spike and the henchpuppet on. In the scene at
the beginning of "Into the Fire", we see Willow and Tara sitting on
opposite sides of the table, this is literally the first time since the
introduction of Tara back in Hush, that we've seen them sitting in a
scene, and not sitting side by side. The others also notice,
"Beady Eyes is right we're needed" (looks at Willow and Tara) "Or we could
just sit and glare."
Of course, what she doesn't know is that Tara has already broken up with
her, but hasn't had the chance to tell her yet
"Wish I could trust that it was just this once
But I must do what I must, I can't adjust to this disgust
We're done"
>There're a few little looks into the rest of the world (with David F.
>and Marti making musical cameos, according to the transcript), with the
>basic conceit being that there're these big banal showstopping
>numbers going on that we only see a few seconds of. Well, I smiled.
>Some good dumb fun is needed to keep this episode from getting too
>serious. That was sarcastic, but less so than you'd think, since
>OMWF does get surprisingly gloomy at times. Speaking of dumb fun,
>Xander and Anya have a little mostly-fluff routine (love the dancing!)
>and get to deal with the little foibles that come up when you've
>committed to living your life with someone and realize that their
>little annoying habits aren't going to disappear. We knew Xander had
>misgivings, but it seems Anya does too. I still say it's perfectly
>natural for people in this stage of a relationship.
The thing about most 'good' musicals (which you might not know since you
don't watch musicals) is that they are generally more drama than comedy.
Oklahoma, South Pacific, Carousel, even newer ones like Sweeney Todd or
Into the Woods, all of them have a very serious core, even though they
include comedy numbers.
Especially Sondheim musicals, and Whedon is a self-professed Sondheim
addict.
>The show holds off on having Spike sing until the end of act two,
>another example of the kind of buildup I've been talking about, since
>it gets the viewer looking forward to seeing it. This is probably my
>favorite part of the show. Marsters, dropping the accent for once, is
>perfectly suited for the harder-edged piece and the character is well
>suited for that kind of confusion. It helps that the song itself is
>catchy as hell. What I was really enjoying, though, is that here more
>than ever, the actors never stop acting. During the quieter bridge
>portion, Spike is singing his lines hesitantly, with the same
>inflection he would have if it were spoken dialogue, and Buffy is
>actively reacting to every word. At all times, it's Spike and Buffy
>playing these uncharacteristic roles, not Marsters and Gellar.
A verse gets chopped ("You know, you've got a willing slave") in the 60
minute edit
>Once again, constant effort to keep things from getting dull - now
>it's Dawn's turn to tell us about her worries, huh? Just going
>through the cast one at a time? Nope, here's our villain and our
>suspenseful act break. Actually, Sweet's routine is one of the few
>times I found myself getting bored during OMWF... it's just a song
>and dance number to me and goes on too long. Let's move on.
Part of the problem for you here is that Hinton Battle (excuse me,
OLTTTAWHB) is doing pure Broadway, because he is pure Broadway. This is
what he does for a living.
>"I'm just worried this whole session's gonna turn into some training
>montage from an 80's movie." "Ah. Well, if we hear any
>inspirational power chords, we'll just lie down until they go away."
>Giles's big solo act is a good one musically, and it's kind of a
>sad character moment too. Not so fond of Buffy not hearing any of it
>though, just because it goes against the "rules" set by the rest of
>the episode in which everyone is aware of any music going on around
>them.
It doesn't go against the rules, it is perforce, a prime example of the
rules of musicals, the sung soliliquy that is meant as the character's
thoughts, and isn't heard by the other people on the stage who are, you
know, standing right therer.
>There are a few parts in which people talk on top of each others'
>lines in synchronized fashion, making it hard or impossible to hear
>what's being sad. That's too bad, since it blocks some very good
>dialogue. According to the transcriber, the following appear in OMWF,
>and I didn't hear any of them:
>
>"Well, I sang, but I had my guitar at the hotel... that would explain
>the huge backing orchestra I couldn't see and the synchronized dancing
>from the room service chaps."
>
>"We did a whole duet about dish washing." "There was an entire
>verse about the couscous." "It was very disturbing." [Yeah, I
>know those aren't from the same conversational thread, but they go
>together.]
>
>"Like there were only three walls and not a fourth wall..."
>
>Then there's more songs and stuff, which I don't feel like going
>through one by one, except that the proud musical tradition of merging
>seemingly separate songs together is nicely upheld by Tara and Giles.
And note still holding the the musical convention of thought soliliquy
that others don't hear. Buffy and Willow, standing a few feet in front of
them, don't hear them belting out their mixed chorus, and there's no real
evidence that they even hear each other.
"I gave birth to a pterodactyl."
"Did it start singing?"
>Well, that was fun. Where do we go from here? It is a good question.
So, major payoffs
Everyone now knows that Willow ripped Buffy from heaven
Tara knows that Willow has been using magic on her to stop arguments (at
least)
Still ongoing
Dawn's a big klepto (I gather you missed Dawn swiping Anya's earrings last
season).
Big starts that need paying off
Lady Acton Rosenberg and magic (and Tara)
Buffy/Spike, or Buffy/feeling other than dead
Xander/Anya
So indeed, as the curtains close on a kiss, where do we go from here
(well for one thing, the Bunny sigs are now back in play)
--
I have a theory, it could be bunnies
Mike Zeares
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> (or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
> Well, this is the one. It's one of the most frequently spoken of
> episodes of the series from what I can tell. I was a little
> apprehensive about the idea, given that I don't watch musicals and
> have no sense of humor or whimsy anywhere in my body. And the
> vintage-musical opening credits didn't do much to reassure me - a
> little too "precious," to use that adjective for one of the first
> times ever.
This was the episode that caused me to experience complete insanity.
I've never been so close to utter freak-out over a damn tv show. There
was a real fear, expressed by Joss among others, that it might be a
disaster. When Buffy started singing "Going Through the Motions," I
knew it wouldn't be, and I felt like running outside and shouting "IT
DOESN'T SUCK!" at the top of my lungs. After it aired, the soundtrack
ran in my head during every waking moment, when I didn't have something
else specific to think about (and since my job at time involved doing
absolutely nothing about 90% of the time, I had lots of "nothing to
think about" time), for about two weeks. That's not really the
completely insane part. The completely insane part was two weeks
before it aired, during the first preview, when Buffy stepped out of my
tv and sang "and you can sing along" directly to me. I don't like to
talk about that much. It was our special moment.
I don't review your reviews much, but I liked this one a lot. You do a
good job of explaining why the things that worked for you did so, and
why the things that didn't, didn't. Actually, you do that in pretty
much all of your reviews, but this is my favorite episode, so I'm
making a note of it. Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed it -- I know people
who hate all musicals with a passion, including this one.
I'll just respond to a few things.
> OMWF first appeals to the wary viewer by starting out with a tune that
> our star can sing. I don't think Gellar quite has the pipes to pull
> her weight on some of the later numbers, but the first song is kept in
> a low register and low-key tone that she can handle.
The thing about the spell is that people sing according to their actual
abilities. Not everyone in real life has a Broadway-caliber voice, and
so it is in Sunnydale. It's obvious Sarah is no singer, but she pulls
it off well, and it helps that the song is really catchy.
> The second bit of reassurance comes with "so, did anybody ... uh ...
> last night, you know, did anybody, um ... burst into song?" Here the
> series is a bit of a slave to past precedent - the rule that's held
> for previous Very Special Episodes (or, as I snarkily say. Art
> Projects) is that however bizarre they get, they *must* fit into the
> show's continuity. Even if the explanation is something as simple as
> "a demon cast a spell," as it is here, that's important to
> include.
In the script book for this episode, Joss admits that OMWF was the
closest to self-indugent of all his "art projects." But none of them
were done just to do them. The point of a musical is that people
express in the songs what they can't say directly. Things in the
gang's personal lives were coming to a crisis point that made a musical
the perfect way to resolve them. In the sense of pouring gasoline on
them, of course. Because this is not a nice show.
>
> Once again, constant effort to keep things from getting dull - now
> it's Dawn's turn to tell us about her worries, huh? Just going
> through the cast one at a time? Nope, here's our villain and our
> suspenseful act break. Actually, Sweet's routine is one of the few
> times I found myself getting bored during OMWF... it's just a song
> and dance number to me and goes on too long. Let's move on.
People are making fun of you for dissing 3-time Tony winner Hinton
Battle, but I think his song is one of the weaker ones lyrically. The
3rd verse ("All these melodies...") was pure exposition. The lyrics
were a bit awkward, and it doesn't really match the tone of the rest of
the song. I could talk about the song also representing Dawn's sexual
awakening ("I know just what you feel, girl"), but I'd feel dirty and
have to go lie down.
> Then there's more songs and stuff, which I don't feel like going
> through one by one, except that the proud musical tradition of merging
> seemingly separate songs together is nicely upheld by Tara and Giles.
> The one thing that bothers me is the implication that it's somehow
> important for Giles and the others to abandon Buffy while people are
> bursting into flames and such. There are more important things to deal
> with than whether Buffy can be independent enough. And remember when
> she proved that even alone, she was the hero ("Becoming II")? And
> remember the part where her attachments make her stronger than the
> average bear, thus being a good thing for the world? Yeah. I'm glad
> they get over it pretty quickly, at least.
This, unfortunately, was completely driven by Tony's desire to leave
the show. You're right that it doesn't really make sense. Espeically
after learing that she was pulled out of Heeeeeeaaaaven. It has the
whiff of someone who says "just get over it" to someone who's
depressed.
Oh, and somewhere in there there's a
> villain and how he operates and the mystery of who summoned him and so
> on, but who cares?
Heh. A lot of people did. A lot of other people pointed out the
musical convention of having a conveniently resovled plot. It became
one of the permanent standing arguments. Which has now been given new
life by your review. Nice going.
(kidding)
> Our hero and William get together this way, huh? And it doesn't seem
> like it's just because of the gimmickry; I'll remember that scene
> independently of the fact that it's a song. Back in "Crush," I
> was convinced that some major things would have to change before they
> could hook up. Naturally I was thinking about Spike changing, and he
> has done that to a degree. What hadn't even occurred to me was that
> a difference in Buffy could be the trigger. It makes total sense to me
> that S6 Buffy, cast out of Heaven into a world of anhedonia,
> desperately trying to feel something, might do things that would have
> been unfathomable to S5 Buffy. Well played, show.
That's a nice analysis/defense of this. You might not think it needs
defending. Just wait.
On a more flippant
> note: as we all know, screwing a vampire is indeed the correct antidote
> for the inability to feel. Maybe Buffy got some advice about that from
> Angel during their off-screen chat...
Ouch. Pepsi through the nose is really painful.
>
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - "They've got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses!/And what's
> with all the carrots?"
That bit was inspired by Emma's tendency to burst out with heavy metal
singing at random moments. Did you hear the crickets with the gang's
reaction after she says "it could be bunnies?" They can be hard to
hear unless you have it cranked up. I didn't notice it the first few
times and nearly died when I did finally hear it.
> Well, that was fun. Where do we go from here? It is a good question.
It's all hugs and puppies from here.
-- Mike Zeares
Don Sample
William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> >A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> >threads.
> >
> >BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> >Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> >(or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
> >Writer: Joss Whedon
> >Director: Joss Whedon
> >
> >Once again, constant effort to keep things from getting dull - now
> >it's Dawn's turn to tell us about her worries, huh? Just going
> >through the cast one at a time? Nope, here's our villain and our
> >suspenseful act break. Actually, Sweet's routine is one of the few
> >times I found myself getting bored during OMWF... it's just a song
> >and dance number to me and goes on too long. Let's move on.
>
> Part of the problem for you here is that Hinton Battle (excuse me,
> OLTTTAWHB) is doing pure Broadway, because he is pure Broadway. This is
> what he does for a living.
>
The other big cut that WGF didn't mention was Dawn's attempt to dance
away from the puppet demons that precedes Sweet's big song and dance
number.
George W Harris
:> Once again, constant effort to keep things from getting dull - now
:> it's Dawn's turn to tell us about her worries, huh? Just going
:> through the cast one at a time? Nope, here's our villain and our
:> suspenseful act break. Actually, Sweet's routine is one of the few
:> times I found myself getting bored during OMWF... it's just a song
:> and dance number to me and goes on too long. Let's move on.
:
:People are making fun of you for dissing 3-time Tony winner Hinton
:Battle, but I think his song is one of the weaker ones lyrically. The
:3rd verse ("All these melodies...") was pure exposition. The lyrics
:were a bit awkward, and it doesn't really match the tone of the rest of
:the song. I could talk about the song also representing Dawn's sexual
:awakening ("I know just what you feel, girl"), but I'd feel dirty and
:have to go lie down.
His number is also one of the weakest cinematically.
Many of the other numbers were storyboarded shot for shot,
but for his number, they just shot a lot of coverage and
edited together the best they could, so it has a lot less
thematic unity.
Still, he can hoof it.
--
"Intelligence is too complex to capture in a single number." -Alfred Binet
vague disclaimer
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> Our hero and William get together this way, huh? And it doesn't seem
> like it's just because of the gimmickry; I'll remember that scene
> independently of the fact that it's a song. Back in "Crush," I
> was convinced that some major things would have to change before they
> could hook up. Naturally I was thinking about Spike changing, and he
> has done that to a degree. What hadn't even occurred to me was that
> a difference in Buffy could be the trigger. It makes total sense to me
> that S6 Buffy, cast out of Heaven into a world of anhedonia,
> desperately trying to feel something, might do things that would have
> been unfathomable to S5 Buffy. Well played, show.
Very nice summation indeed.
Of course, it being totally understandable doesn't make it in any way
wise. It's easy enough to imagine Buffy seeing Spike in much the same
way that Willow sees magic, or even that Anya sees marriage.
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
Rick S
news:w3rBg.5835$eL2....@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com:
> That note clashes because it is supposed to clash. It's a note that
> is not in the key the song is written in, and the note is written to
> cause that kind of unsettled feeling.
You forgot to mention that Spike sings 'living' exactly the same way that
Buffy sings 'heaven'. Both are painful words for them to sing.
One Bit Shy
news:1154883916.4...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> Well, this is the one. It's one of the most frequently spoken of
> episodes of the series from what I can tell. I was a little
> apprehensive about the idea, given that I don't watch musicals and
> have no sense of humor or whimsy anywhere in my body. And the
> vintage-musical opening credits didn't do much to reassure me - a
> little too "precious," to use that adjective for one of the first
> times ever.
One little thing I like in the oppening scene is Buffy taking the ringing
alarm clock and just staring at it (still ringing) in the vacant detached
manner that she's shown for several episodes. The credits may be precious
(though I do laugh at Spike's sneer and Willow's goofy smile), but the first
actual shot is completely in character.
> OMWF first appeals to the wary viewer by starting out with a tune that
> our star can sing. I don't think Gellar quite has the pipes to pull
> her weight on some of the later numbers, but the first song is kept in
> a low register and low-key tone that she can handle. "Alive" could
> stand on its own as a wacky short piece summing up Where Things Are.
> The entertainment value of Buffy angsting about nothing penetrating her
> heart while staking participants in the song requires no explanation.
OMWF is a little miracle for me. With my haphazard introduction to BtVS -
primarily through reruns in syndication and then purchasing DVDs - I never
really saw the series complete until I ran through it in order on DVD. (S7
is the only season I saw complete when aired.) And for some weird reason I
never saw OMWF until I got to it in that DVD runthrough. It is literally
the last BtVS episode I saw - and I had no idea it existed until then.
(Reading Internet commentary came after.)
So I was completely clueless (certainly not wary) through the opening
sequence - which I took to be the start of some kind of Buffy fantasy of
being happy - until SMG started singing. Then my eyes bugged out. Huh? I
don't think anything in BtVS has surprised me as much as that moment. And
then for the song to actually be really good and very much tied to the story
to date - well, I was bowled over and just sat back to lap up the rest of
the episode. Which never disappointed. In a way, it filled in the whole
series for me. What a last episode to see.
SMG is obviously not a great singer, but this tradition of musical theater
doesn't require that. (There's even a tradition of non-singing songs for
some situations. Rex Harrison - My Fair Lady.) It's still an acting medium
in spite of the song and dance. There's certainly not an SMG acting problem
this episode. Better pipes might have helped, but I don't think her singing
ever gets in the way. And within the story, I'm very glad they stuck with
her rather than use a dubbed voice. After all, it's all the ordinary people
of Sunnydale singing and dancing. I don't think they're supposed to be
pros - except for the demon.
> That particular song, "I'm Under
> Your Spell" is good witchy whimsy that's one of the most
> over-the-top bits of parody/homage of the musical genre (the kinda-dumb
> movie version of _Mary Poppins_ comes to mind for me).
Perhaps, but don't expect Mary Poppins to sing a line like, "Lost in ecstasy
spread beneath my willow tree," or, "You make me com(plete)."
> But there's
> another layer, since we fans are also watching this scene knowing what
> Willow did last week to help keep Tara so devoted. She learns what
> went down and does not seem pleased, all to variations of that melody,
> but doesn't let her significant other know what she's discovered.
> Interesting...
Anya notices them glaring at each other. So tension's in the air even if
she hasn't said anything yet.
> Speaking of dumb fun,
> Xander and Anya have a little mostly-fluff routine (love the dancing!)
Emma Caulfield looks like she's done musical theater before. This scene
always makes me think that she should have been making movies in the 40's.
It's not just the song and dance. Her whole look and style belongs in
another era. (Notice how her hair style has evolved from early in the
season.)
> The show holds off on having Spike sing until the end of act two,
> another example of the kind of buildup I've been talking about, since
> it gets the viewer looking forward to seeing it. This is probably my
> favorite part of the show. Marsters, dropping the accent for once, is
> perfectly suited for the harder-edged piece and the character is well
> suited for that kind of confusion. It helps that the song itself is
> catchy as hell.
Here our musical tastes diverge. I thought this was one of the weaker songs
musically, and Marsters voice seems thin on it. (I like his later
contributions much better.) But the moment is still very good.
You're scared.
Ashamed of what you feel
And you can't tell the ones you love
You know they couldn't deal
Whisper in a dead man's ear,
It doesn't make it real.
I don't think Spike is being entirely fair to Buffy here, who I think is
getting more emotional support out of their time than just that. But it's
still an inciteful observation of how confiding in Spike rather than the
Scoobies keeps it from being real. Buffy's avoiding her feelings as much as
releasing them. Of course the bigger deal for him is that Buffy's expecting
him to treat her feelings so seriously while ignoring his own. He's still
in love, and this friendship deal that they've been toying with isn't
satisfying him...
We also get to see the obsession strong as ever. Both in the song words and
in his action as everytime Spike tells Buffy to leave him be, he turns up
right back in her face.
Anyway, the song shows that the status of their relationship is considerably
less stable than I had gotten the idea it was in the last few episodes.
That's the show's biggest surprise for me - tied in with the conclusion of
course.
> Nope, here's our villain and our
> suspenseful act break. Actually, Sweet's routine is one of the few
> times I found myself getting bored during OMWF... it's just a song
> and dance number to me and goes on too long. Let's move on.
Another deviation in taste. For the singing and dancing alone, this is
easily my favorite song of the episode. Good performance, fun tune.
Terrific sense of style. Lyric content is mainly exposition, but so what?
It explains the magical basis for the situation and establishes the
episode's peril in calling for Buffy to burn. (I also have to laugh at Dawn
trailing after him essentially saying he better let her go or she'll sic her
big sister on him.)
> "I'm just worried this whole session's gonna turn into some training
> montage from an 80's movie." "Ah. Well, if we hear any
> inspirational power chords, we'll just lie down until they go away."
> Giles's big solo act is a good one musically, and it's kind of a
> sad character moment too. Not so fond of Buffy not hearing any of it
> though, just because it goes against the "rules" set by the rest of
> the episode in which everyone is aware of any music going on around
> them.
Just think of it as the person who needs to hear this particular truth is
himself. Presumably the deed will inform Buffy. First he has to face
himself. The following moment of both Tara and Giles saying they have to
leave isn't heard by anybody else either.
> There are a few parts in which people talk on top of each others'
> lines in synchronized fashion, making it hard or impossible to hear
> what's being sad. That's too bad, since it blocks some very good
> dialogue.
But makes the episode all the richer for rewatching. One of the special
things about this for me is that it is easily the most re-watchable episode
of the series.
It also makes for a few interesting juxtapositions. One I especially like
is when Buffy sings:
So one by one, they turn from me
I guess my friends can't face the cold
But why I froze, not one among them knows
And never can be told.
Simultaneously, Tara sings a reprise from an earlier number:
What can't we face...
If we're together?
It's terribly sad - as are a lot of things in this episode.
> Then there's more songs and stuff, which I don't feel like going
> through one by one, except that the proud musical tradition of merging
> seemingly separate songs together is nicely upheld by Tara and Giles.
> The one thing that bothers me is the implication that it's somehow
> important for Giles and the others to abandon Buffy while people are
> bursting into flames and such. There are more important things to deal
> with than whether Buffy can be independent enough. And remember when
> she proved that even alone, she was the hero ("Becoming II")? And
> remember the part where her attachments make her stronger than the
> average bear, thus being a good thing for the world? Yeah. I'm glad
> they get over it pretty quickly, at least.
Whoa, Nelly. This is mainly Giles following his epiphany about Buffy
needing to stand on her own. The rest were ready to stand with Buffy, but
Giles got all authority figure and shut them down. Tara shut down Willow
too, but that was just about the magic - not helping Buffy. Spike got shut
down by Buffy because she's mad at him about his song.
Giles's judgment can certainly be questioned, but it is just his, not
everybody's. He also eventually backed down and came running. (Though, as
it turns out, couldn't help. That was left to Spike.)
> The Buffyverse has a way to make secrets and feelings come out during
> the novelty episodes, and here the big climax is Willow and the others
> finally finding out what was going on with Buffy when she was spending
> those months dead for tax reasons. This is hampered a little by a few
> quick moments of weak/annoying singing ("heeeeeaven!!"),
That's part of the composition - and pretty damned good song writing too.
It's not bad singing. It's eerie dischordant music to pain your heart.
That's the biggest tear jerking moment of the entire series for me.
> but the
> concept of the realization is still powerful enough that I was
> captivated by this part. Willow in particular, appropriately, looks so
> thoroughly horrified. Maybe that'll learn her not to be messin'
> with forces beyond reckonin'. Oh, and somewhere in there there's a
> villain and how he operates and the mystery of who summoned him and so
> on, but who cares?
Give me something to sing about. Maybe it's not the greatest tune in the
world, but the ideas sung about are emotionally shattering for the series.
From Buffy looking directly at us (so shockingly direct and intimate that it
makes me squirm) and telling us to sing along, to Dawn's reprise of Buffy's
words to her in The Gift I'm held spellbound by it.
Give me something to sing about. We've seen Buffy go through emotional
crisis lots of times. But never bared so nakedly before all. And nobody
can answer her request. None of the Scoobies have a refrain to sing that
gives her what she so desperately needs.
Nobody except Spike.
> Our hero and William get together this way, huh? And it doesn't seem
> like it's just because of the gimmickry; I'll remember that scene
> independently of the fact that it's a song. Back in "Crush," I
> was convinced that some major things would have to change before they
> could hook up. Naturally I was thinking about Spike changing, and he
> has done that to a degree. What hadn't even occurred to me was that
> a difference in Buffy could be the trigger. It makes total sense to me
> that S6 Buffy, cast out of Heaven into a world of anhedonia,
> desperately trying to feel something, might do things that would have
> been unfathomable to S5 Buffy. Well played, show.
I agree. One wouldn't think it possible to find a path to the impossible
relationoship, but there it is...
My favorite lyric of the show is Spike's:
You have to go on living
So one of us is living.
Does it actually mean anything? Odd phrase. But it feels like a glimmer of
purpose. Something to hang onto. Something to sing about. So far this
season Buffy has pretended to live in the world. Tried doing the normal
things that mean being alive with a purpose - and failed. Nothing's real.
There is no purpose. And in a moment of despair she bares all, asks for
help, doesn't get it, and nearly burns up in her suicidal dance. Until
this, of all things, is offered as purpose. And Buffy grabbed at it. Like
a lifeline. Wow.
> On a more flippant
> note: as we all know, screwing a vampire is indeed the correct antidote
> for the inability to feel. Maybe Buffy got some advice about that from
> Angel during their off-screen chat...
Um. There probably was some tongue in there, but they haven't screwed yet.
This is the romantic part where you're supposed to get all dewey eyed.
> I should mention that Mrs. Q. fixated on the line "this isn't
> real" and took it to suggest that maybe the kiss at the end is a
> fantasy. Whereas I'm 99.4% sure that this line is about questioning
> the reality of the emotion, not of the moment itself. I guess we'll
> find out next week...
"This isn't real, but I just want to feel." There's a companion line with
that from Spike. "But you can make me feel." I guess you will find out
what's real in weeks to come, but in the meantime this is a curious enough
notion in itself that it's all about feeling for both of them. They both
want to feel alive. Yet both in their own way are dead inside. And they're
taking death into their arms so as to live.
> Well, that was fun. Where do we go from here? It is a good question.
No shit. Everything's tossed into the air. In that sense it's a lot like
Innocence.
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Defies easy description.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
My favorite episode in all of BtVS - which is hardly unusual. I think this
is pretty clearly the most often chosen best episode of the series.
Superlative.
I'm going to be gone for a couple of days, so I'm counting on you to get
next few ratings correct. It should be easy. The next four episodes are
obvious Superlatives. Just ask anyone. <g>
OBS
beloved
> beloved wrote:
> > The Giles scenario, however, was truly disappointing (even with
> > wonderful songs). I guess I kind of understand their reasons for going
> > this route but it's really a character-destroying choice, IMO (nybat
> > jvgu n pbhcyr bguref va F7 sbe zr) rfcrpvnyyl va gur snpr bs Ohssl
> > yvgrenyyl orttvat uvz gb fgnl arkg rc. And the writer's choice was
> > heartbreaking even to me who was only 'just fond' of Giles.
>
> Especially when it would have been so easy to come up with a better,
> more plausible reason for Giles leaving. Have him discover an
> apocalyptic prophecy that he needed to research immediately but none of
> the necessary books were in Sunnydale. Or have him go back to London to
> deal with a political struggle at the Watchers Council that would have
> serious negative consequences for Buffy if the hard-liners won.
I agree with you, it shouldn't have been difficult for a good writer to
come up with something plausible, within character and yet indefinite
(which would have been needed). And FWIW, IMO, someone like Buffy who
already has abandonment issues anyway and who is in a depressed state
would feel, psychologically, just as abandoned even if Giles left for a
'good' reason. It would just have taken a bit more reasoning on the
viewers part to understand it. as opposed to being hit over the head
with it..
> But, Joss decided that Buffy's life had to suck this season, and so she
> had to be abandoned, regardless of the damage done to Giles's
> character.
Well, LOL, agreement didn't last too long, huh? I can't agree the Joss
decided Buffy's life had to suck just _this_ season. Joss decided
Buffy's life had to suck pretty much in all seasons. Believe me,
nothing, but nothing, could be as painful as a 16 year old
deeply-in-love virginal girl waking up after making love for the first
time to... Angelus. Nor, having to kill the 'man' she loves. Nothing
beats that. The only pain likely to rival that is her mother dying.
This, Giles leaving, naq gur erfg bs F6, can't even come close compared
to that.
Lidia
Mel
One Bit Shy wrote:
>
>
>
>>but the
>>concept of the realization is still powerful enough that I was
>>captivated by this part. Willow in particular, appropriately, looks so
>>thoroughly horrified. Maybe that'll learn her not to be messin'
>>with forces beyond reckonin'. Oh, and somewhere in there there's a
>>villain and how he operates and the mystery of who summoned him and so
>>on, but who cares?
>
>
> Give me something to sing about. Maybe it's not the greatest tune in the
> world, but the ideas sung about are emotionally shattering for the series.
> From Buffy looking directly at us (so shockingly direct and intimate that it
> makes me squirm) and telling us to sing along, to Dawn's reprise of Buffy's
> words to her in The Gift I'm held spellbound by it.
>
> Give me something to sing about. We've seen Buffy go through emotional
> crisis lots of times. But never bared so nakedly before all. And nobody
> can answer her request. None of the Scoobies have a refrain to sing that
> gives her what she so desperately needs.
>
> Nobody except Spike.
>
Yes, she's looking for something to sing about, something to feel,
something to live for. She's not seeking death.
From Going Through the Motions:
"I don't want to be going through the motions"
and
"I just want to be alive."
From Walk Through the Fire:
"I want the fire back"
And finally, she begs anyone and everyone present to "give me something
to sing about....Pleeeeeeaassse."
These aren't the feelings of someone who wants to die, but of someone
who is looking desperately for something to live for and can't find it.
That's why she dances. She's run out of things to feel/sing and there's
nothing left. Not until Spike stops her and gives her that one faint hope.
Did you listen to the commentary for this episode? Joss says that
originally he had a different song planned for Buffy's confrontation
with Sweet but his wife wasn't able to sing it for the demo and wanted
him to change it (it was too high for her range). He got pissy and
decided to just write a different song, Something to Sing About. He's
says it's for the best, and the reason he reacted as he did is probably
because deep down, he knew the original song wasn't good enough.
However, the part about heaven was always part of the song, and not
something that would have been revealed in dialogue.
Mel
(Harmony) Watcher
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154883916.4...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> threads.
>
>
> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
> episodes of the series from what I can tell. I was a little
> apprehensive about the idea, given that I don't watch musicals and
> have no sense of humor or whimsy anywhere in my body. And the
> vintage-musical opening credits didn't do much to reassure me - a
> little too "precious," to use that adjective for one of the first
> times ever.
>
> our star can sing. I don't think Gellar quite has the pipes to pull
> her weight on some of the later numbers, but the first song is kept in
> a low register and low-key tone that she can handle. "Alive" could
> stand on its own as a wacky short piece summing up Where Things Are.
> The entertainment value of Buffy angsting about nothing penetrating her
> heart while staking participants in the song requires no explanation.
>
> last night, you know, did anybody, um ... burst into song?" Here the
> series is a bit of a slave to past precedent - the rule that's held
> for previous Very Special Episodes (or, as I snarkily say. Art
> Projects) is that however bizarre they get, they *must* fit into the
> show's continuity. Even if the explanation is something as simple as
> "a demon cast a spell," as it is here, that's important to
> witches!.../Which is ridiculous, 'cause witches they were
> persecuted/Wicca good and love the earth and woman power and I'll be
> over here." fit neatly into the rhythm of the song. From this point,
> there's never any doubt that we'll still be getting _Buffy_-style
> dialogue. It'll just be in song. OMWF will go on to seriously
> attempt to touch on and in some cases advance the ongoing storylines.
> We've mentioned this before, but one of the reasons BTVS is special
> is that it has no episodes that are gimmick shows and nothing more.
>
> the episode, displaying some of the same skill for making any lyric
> sound singable that was also evident in "The Exposition Song." The
> episode is also put together in a way that makes sense (yep, that's
> what I do. Hoping I would be swept away by the magic and gushing
> instead of rambling about construction and plotting? Tough.) The song
> selection and quantity of prominent numbers seem to match the actors'
> instance, notice how Tara is kept buried amongst the group in the first
> Magic Shop number. Then Benson can come out and surprise us with her
> ability to belt it out like a pro once she gets her own song. Stuff
> Your Spell" is good witchy whimsy that's one of the most
> over-the-top bits of parody/homage of the musical genre (the kinda-dumb
> another layer, since we fans are also watching this scene knowing what
> Willow did last week to help keep Tara so devoted. She learns what
> went down and does not seem pleased, all to variations of that melody,
> but doesn't let her significant other know what she's discovered.
> Interesting...
>
> and Marti making musical cameos, according to the transcript), with the
> basic conceit being that there're these big banal showstopping
> numbers going on that we only see a few seconds of. Well, I smiled.
> Some good dumb fun is needed to keep this episode from getting too
> serious. That was sarcastic, but less so than you'd think, since
> Xander and Anya have a little mostly-fluff routine (love the dancing!)
> committed to living your life with someone and realize that their
> little annoying habits aren't going to disappear. We knew Xander had
> misgivings, but it seems Anya does too. I still say it's perfectly
> natural for people in this stage of a relationship.
>
> another example of the kind of buildup I've been talking about, since
> it gets the viewer looking forward to seeing it. This is probably my
> favorite part of the show. Marsters, dropping the accent for once, is
> perfectly suited for the harder-edged piece and the character is well
> suited for that kind of confusion. It helps that the song itself is
> than ever, the actors never stop acting. During the quieter bridge
> portion, Spike is singing his lines hesitantly, with the same
> inflection he would have if it were spoken dialogue, and Buffy is
> actively reacting to every word. At all times, it's Spike and Buffy
> playing these uncharacteristic roles, not Marsters and Gellar.
>
> it's Dawn's turn to tell us about her worries, huh? Just going
> suspenseful act break. Actually, Sweet's routine is one of the few
> times I found myself getting bored during OMWF... it's just a song
> and dance number to me and goes on too long. Let's move on.
>
> montage from an 80's movie." "Ah. Well, if we hear any
> inspirational power chords, we'll just lie down until they go away."
> Giles's big solo act is a good one musically, and it's kind of a
> sad character moment too. Not so fond of Buffy not hearing any of it
> though, just because it goes against the "rules" set by the rest of
> the episode in which everyone is aware of any music going on around
> them.
>
> lines in synchronized fashion, making it hard or impossible to hear
> what's being sad. That's too bad, since it blocks some very good
> and I didn't hear any of them:
>
> "Well, I sang, but I had my guitar at the hotel... that would explain
> the huge backing orchestra I couldn't see and the synchronized dancing
> from the room service chaps."
>
> "We did a whole duet about dish washing." "There was an entire
> verse about the couscous." "It was very disturbing." [Yeah, I
> know those aren't from the same conversational thread, but they go
> together.]
>
> "Like there were only three walls and not a fourth wall..."
>
> through one by one, except that the proud musical tradition of merging
> seemingly separate songs together is nicely upheld by Tara and Giles.
> The one thing that bothers me is the implication that it's somehow
> important for Giles and the others to abandon Buffy while people are
> bursting into flames and such. There are more important things to deal
> with than whether Buffy can be independent enough. And remember when
> she proved that even alone, she was the hero ("Becoming II")? And
> remember the part where her attachments make her stronger than the
> average bear, thus being a good thing for the world? Yeah. I'm glad
> they get over it pretty quickly, at least.
>
> the novelty episodes, and here the big climax is Willow and the others
> finally finding out what was going on with Buffy when she was spending
> those months dead for tax reasons. This is hampered a little by a few
> concept of the realization is still powerful enough that I was
> captivated by this part. Willow in particular, appropriately, looks so
> thoroughly horrified. Maybe that'll learn her not to be messin'
> with forces beyond reckonin'. Oh, and somewhere in there there's a
> villain and how he operates and the mystery of who summoned him and so
> on, but who cares?
>
> like it's just because of the gimmickry; I'll remember that scene
> independently of the fact that it's a song. Back in "Crush," I
> was convinced that some major things would have to change before they
> could hook up. Naturally I was thinking about Spike changing, and he
> has done that to a degree. What hadn't even occurred to me was that
> a difference in Buffy could be the trigger. It makes total sense to me
> that S6 Buffy, cast out of Heaven into a world of anhedonia,
> desperately trying to feel something, might do things that would have
> note: as we all know, screwing a vampire is indeed the correct antidote
> for the inability to feel. Maybe Buffy got some advice about that from
> Angel during their off-screen chat...
>
> real" and took it to suggest that maybe the kiss at the end is a
> fantasy. Whereas I'm 99.4% sure that this line is about questioning
> the reality of the emotion, not of the moment itself. I guess we'll
> find out next week...
>
> - "They've got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses!/And what's
> with all the carrots?"
> - "So, Dawn's in trouble. Must be Tuesday." [see, cuz the show
> aired on Tuesdays. So it's like there are only three walls...]
> - "I think this line's mostly filler"
> - "She needs backup!"
> - Spike trying to quietly escape mid-song
> - "Grrr, arrrrrr"
>
>
>
>
> One-sentence summary: Defies easy description.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
>
> 1) "Bargaining" - Decent
> 2) "After Life" - Good
> 3) "Flooded" - Decent
> 4) "Life Serial" - Good
> 5) "All The Way" - Good
> 6) "Once More, With Feeling" - Excellent]
>
I'm glad you enjoyed it as much as many of us did and still do.
I usually do not rank individual episodes because I tend to see the entire
thing as one big story. But I've got to rank this as one of my top five BtVS
episodes of all time in the sense that if I'm only allowed to own exactly
five episodes, this will be one of them. And I generally have no motivation
to go see live musicals.
OMWF - Behind the Scenes:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KMT20i33sjY
"They got the mustard out!"
--
==Harmony Watcher==
Apteryx
news:1154883916.4...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> (or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
> Well, this is the one. It's one of the most frequently spoken of
> episodes of the series from what I can tell. I was a little
> apprehensive about the idea, given that I don't watch musicals and
> have no sense of humor or whimsy anywhere in my body. And the
> vintage-musical opening credits didn't do much to reassure me - a
> little too "precious," to use that adjective for one of the first
> times ever.
>
> OMWF first appeals to the wary viewer by starting out with a tune that
> our star can sing. I don't think Gellar quite has the pipes to pull
> her weight on some of the later numbers, but the first song is kept in
> a low register and low-key tone that she can handle. "Alive" could
> stand on its own as a wacky short piece summing up Where Things Are.
> The entertainment value of Buffy angsting about nothing penetrating her
> heart while staking participants in the song requires no explanation.
It also occurred to me that as well as stating Buffy's position, "Going
Through the Motions" might also have been written by Joss for SMG to
ironically reflect on her position - as an aspiring Hollywood actress stuck
for 6 years in a single role. Joss can be quite snarcky towards his stars.
In the "making of" special amongst the OMWF special features we see AB in
the studio attempting a less than successful take of her big number,
reaching the line "Suddenly I knew" and breaking off saying "That was
terrible." From off camera we hear Joss's voice saying "Suddenly you knew".
> The second bit of reassurance comes with "so, did anybody ... uh ...
> last night, you know, did anybody, um ... burst into song?" Here the
> series is a bit of a slave to past precedent - the rule that's held
> for previous Very Special Episodes (or, as I snarkily say. Art
> Projects) is that however bizarre they get, they *must* fit into the
> show's continuity.
The other thing that's reassuring is that it gets on the same side of the
viewer who doesn't like musicals. There bursting into song is very worrying
to them, a sign of demonic activity.
Even if the explanation is something as simple as
> "a demon cast a spell," as it is here, that's important to
> include. And close on the heels of that, there's Xander's "evil
> witches!.../Which is ridiculous, 'cause witches they were
> persecuted/Wicca good and love the earth and woman power and I'll be
> over here." fit neatly into the rhythm of the song. From this point,
> there's never any doubt that we'll still be getting _Buffy_-style
> dialogue. It'll just be in song. OMWF will go on to seriously
> attempt to touch on and in some cases advance the ongoing storylines.
> We've mentioned this before, but one of the reasons BTVS is special
> is that it has no episodes that are gimmick shows and nothing more.
I love the double entendre of the "What Can't We Face" part of the "I've Got
a Theory/Bunnies/What Can't We Face" number. Ostensibly Buffy is doing a We
Shall Overcome number, and sells it as such to the Scoobies. But really
she's saying "Same old same old"
>
> Once again, constant effort to keep things from getting dull - now
> it's Dawn's turn to tell us about her worries, huh? Just going
> through the cast one at a time? Nope, here's our villain and our
> suspenseful act break. Actually, Sweet's routine is one of the few
> times I found myself getting bored during OMWF... it's just a song
> and dance number to me and goes on too long. Let's move on.
Mm, doesn't have that effect on me. If there is anything in this superb
episode that drags a little for me (and then only in the sense that I'm
impatient for the episode to get on to stuff that's even better) it would be
MT's dance number just before it.
> "I'm just worried this whole session's gonna turn into some training
> montage from an 80's movie." "Ah. Well, if we hear any
> inspirational power chords, we'll just lie down until they go away."
> Giles's big solo act is a good one musically, and it's kind of a
> sad character moment too. Not so fond of Buffy not hearing any of it
> though, just because it goes against the "rules" set by the rest of
> the episode in which everyone is aware of any music going on around
> them.
It's consistent with the fact that she hasn't been picking up on obvious
signs in earlier episodes that Giles wants her to stand on her own two feet,
and doesn't plan to stay around.
> There are a few parts in which people talk on top of each others'
> lines in synchronized fashion, making it hard or impossible to hear
> what's being sad. That's too bad, since it blocks some very good
> dialogue. According to the transcriber, the following appear in OMWF,
> and I didn't hear any of them:
>
> "Well, I sang, but I had my guitar at the hotel... that would explain
> the huge backing orchestra I couldn't see and the synchronized dancing
> from the room service chaps."
>
> "We did a whole duet about dish washing." "There was an entire
> verse about the couscous."
My ears told me that that first line was "We did a whole duet about dinner
last night." Which leads more naturally into the couscous verse (though I'm
sure couscous can be a pain to wash if you leave it to harden).
Unfortunately the line isn't in the subtitles. Anyone got a script?
>
> Then there's more songs and stuff, which I don't feel like going
> through one by one, except that the proud musical tradition of merging
> seemingly separate songs together is nicely upheld by Tara and Giles.
That was a great "accidental" duet, with both singing about needing to
leave, and both singing directly to the ones they think they have to leave,
neither of whom can hear them.
> The one thing that bothers me is the implication that it's somehow
> important for Giles and the others to abandon Buffy while people are
> bursting into flames and such. There are more important things to deal
> with than whether Buffy can be independent enough. And remember when
> she proved that even alone, she was the hero ("Becoming II")? And
> remember the part where her attachments make her stronger than the
> average bear, thus being a good thing for the world? Yeah. I'm glad
> they get over it pretty quickly, at least.
It is pretty silly. It is at least part of the Giles's obvious intention to
make Buffy stand on her own two feet, but the reasons why it is wrong for
now are obvious enough to be apparent to Giles only moments later ("Am I
leaving Dawn in danger, is my Slayer too far gone to care"). The only
justification is that its necessary for the great "Walk Through the Fire"
number which follows.
> The Buffyverse has a way to make secrets and feelings come out during
> the novelty episodes, and here the big climax is Willow and the others
> finally finding out what was going on with Buffy when she was spending
> those months dead for tax reasons. This is hampered a little by a few
> quick moments of weak/annoying singing ("heeeeeaven!!")
This is one moment where it is a disadvantage to have a singer chosen for
her ability to act, because it leaves open the possibility that the off-key
singing might just be because she can't do it right. But no, its not.
>
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - "They've got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses!/And what's
> with all the carrots?"
> - The minion not singing when "singing"
> - "So, Dawn's in trouble. Must be Tuesday." [see, cuz the show
> aired on Tuesdays. So it's like there are only three walls...]
> - "I think this line's mostly filler"
> - "She needs backup!"
> - Spike trying to quietly escape mid-song
> - "Grrr, arrrrrr"
& "I was able to examine the body while the police were taking witness
arias."
> Well, that was fun. Where do we go from here? It is a good question.
A very good question. In terms of quality, obviously not up (if only because
there pretty much isn't any up from here). In terms of plot, both Giles and
Tara have declared their intentions to leave. Xander and Anya are both
having doubts. Dawn's a kleptomaniac. And all we have to make up for that is
the possibility of a relationship between Buffy and Spike. And the knowledge
that back in their basment lair, the Nerd Trio are poised like a cobra,
waiting to strike. I've got a theory, they should work this fast. Because it
clearly could get serious before it's passed.
> One-sentence summary: Defies easy description.
Nah, its bloody brilliant.
> AOQ rating: Excellent
An easy Superb (or Superlative or Excellent +) for me. One of the best bits
of television ever. For me, the best BtVS episode, and, obviously, best in
season 6
--
Apteryx
vague disclaimer
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
>
> > On a more flippant
> > note: as we all know, screwing a vampire is indeed the correct antidote
> > for the inability to feel. Maybe Buffy got some advice about that from
> > Angel during their off-screen chat...
>
> Um. There probably was some tongue in there, but they haven't screwed yet.
> This is the romantic part where you're supposed to get all dewey eyed.
Or go "Uh, oh. What are the odds of this ending well?".
Mike Zeares
One Bit Shy wrote:
> From Buffy looking directly at us (so shockingly direct and intimate that it
> makes me squirm) and telling us to sing along [snip]
Ah, so I wasn't the only one strongly affected by that. I joke about
her coming out of my tv and singing directly to me, but it almost felt
like that. The first time I saw it, in the preview that aired during
or after "Life Serial," it hit me like a shock. It was almost too much
to believe that I'd actually seen it. Which probably doesn't make
sense, but I was in a state of anxiety over the mere existance of the
musical, and this just took me right over the line. Anyway, it's still
one of my favorite shots from the entire series.
-- Mike Zeares
One Bit Shy
news:1154887221.2...@n13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> First, Giles leaving. Giles is leaving when the most important person
> in his life has died and been resurrected and is suffering god only
> knows what kind of trauma because of that (and shows in this episode
> that she's actually suicidal), when Dawn doesn't have any kind of
> parental figure in her life and it's becoming increasingly clear that
> she desperately needs one, and when Willow is having problems with
> magic and is clearly headed for trouble on that score. I know that the
> actor wanted to spend more time with his family, but Joss should have
> come up with a better way to write him out. For Giles to leave this way
> completely trashed his character for me, and it could easily have been
> avoided with a little effort on Joss's part.
Well, he isn't gone yet. There may be more working over that notion to
come.
> But the absolute worst thing was seeing all Buffy's friends stand there
> and watch as Buffy began to catch fire while only Spike was allowed by
> Joss to rush to her rescue. That was the end of "Buffy the Vampire
> Slayer" and the beginning of "The Spike and Buffy Show." No thanks.
Yes, I think that was terrible to watch, but not for the reasons you seem to
offer. You seem to forget that they were operating under great magic. They
would need to sing and dance their way into that moment with the right song
and lyrics to pull Buffy out. They needed the answer to her demand that
they give her something to sing about. But they didn't have that answer -
didn't have that song. That's a tragedy, but not in the sense of them
standing around doing nothing. That they couldn't control. Spike, on the
other hand, had the lyrics for the job - as odd a solution as they were.
OBS
One Bit Shy
news:CvSdnXCNyvB0F0vZ...@uci.net...
I haven't listened to the commentary in a while, but I remember something
along those lines. It sure sounded like he got the thematic pieces down
better second time around.
OBS
One Bit Shy
news:l64o-1rj5-8772A...@europe.isp.giganews.com...
Oh, no. We don't want to think about that. Nosiree. La, La, La, La, La. I
can't hear you!
OBS
Opus the Penguin
> You don't have buy the official script book or the soundtrack CD
> to this episode to figure out what the title of this song is! And
> it is *not* "Alive"! Anyone with more than one brain cell will
> notice that the phrase "going through the motions" repeats itself
> three times during this song (with a fourth appearance as a
> counterpoint later on in "Walk Through the Fire") and is the only
> phrase that repeats itself in the song. In the meantime, not only
> does the word "alive" appear only once in the song (as the very
> last word) but only that once in the entire episode. Yet the
> transcriber insisted on referring to the song as "Alive" not only
> in her transcript of OMWF but in a later transcript (I won't spoil
> it here) where it pops up again. (And I don't think anyone who
> hadn't read her OMWF script would know what the hell she was
> talking about in the later episode.)
That's why the song is called "Who Could Ask for Anything More?" rather
than "I Got Rhythm."
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
One Bit Shy
news:1154911680....@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
I can't think of anything else like that in the series where a character
speaks directly to us. By itself that would make me jump I think. But it's
more than that. I don't know how to express it other than being intensely
intimate. (The jump to close-up probably helps.) I didn't see previews for
this - got it as it occurred in the episode. But I sure got the shock.
OBS
Opus the Penguin
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>
>> but the
>> concept of the realization is still powerful enough that I was
>> captivated by this part. Willow in particular, appropriately,
>> looks so thoroughly horrified. Maybe that'll learn her not to be
>> messin' with forces beyond reckonin'.
>
Hey, no spoilers! AOQ was probably expecting this plot line to
continue.
Opus the Penguin
> Joss had her sing far above her normal register for this song.
> Seems to have worked well. Geez, the guy's good at *everything.*
> It helps, though, that Amber has a beautiful voice.
I thought her voice was kind of weak. I wouldn't accept that quality of
singing from a real Broadway show. OMWF only works for me--and it does
work--because it's characters I already know who are not only singing
(most barely passably) but acting and advancing the plot. Mrs. Penguin
owns the CD but I absolutely can't listen to it. It sounds terrible.
(Harmony) Watcher
<lpad...@voicenet.com> wrote in message
news:1154889015.8...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> > OMWF first appeals to the wary viewer by starting out with a tune that
> > our star can sing. I don't think Gellar quite has the pipes to pull
> > her weight on some of the later numbers, but the first song is kept in
> > a low register and low-key tone that she can handle. "Alive" could
> > stand on its own as a wacky short piece summing up Where Things Are.
> > The entertainment value of Buffy angsting about nothing penetrating her
> > heart while staking participants in the song requires no explanation.
>
> great anticipation, and you did something I was afraid you were going
> to do! It's one of my pet peeves. You've obviously read, for reference,
> the transcript by a certain person who shall remain nameless and who,
> for the most part, does an excellent job at transcribing the episodes
> but who didn't show an ounce of common sense in her OMWF transcript.
> How do I know this, particularly that you read this person's
> transcript? Because you referred to the first song as "Alive"!
>
> You don't have buy the official script book or the soundtrack CD to
> this episode to figure out what the title of this song is! And it is
> *not* "Alive"! Anyone with more than one brain cell will notice that
> the phrase "going through the motions" repeats itself three times
> during this song (with a fourth appearance as a counterpoint later on
> in "Walk Through the Fire") and is the only phrase that repeats itself
> in the song. In the meantime, not only does the word "alive" appear
> only once in the song (as the very last word) but only that once in the
> entire episode. Yet the transcriber insisted on referring to the song
> as "Alive" not only in her transcript of OMWF but in a later transcript
> (I won't spoil it here) where it pops up again. (And I don't think
> anyone who hadn't read her OMWF script would know what the hell she was
> talking about in the later episode.)
>
>
> If the song for some reason had to be titled anything but "Going
> Through the Motions", it should have been "She's Not Even Half the Girl
> She-- OWWW!" (which IMHO is the funniest line not just of the episode
> but of the entire series!)
>
Yes, I think I know whom and which transript site you may be talking about.
You'd think by now she'd have the time to correct it and ask the transripts
sites to change it as well (unless she is actually correct at the time when
it first came out). Or, perhaps they don't care anymore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_More,_With_Feeling_(Buffy_episode)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006J3WH/002-1988133-1764009?v=glance&n=5174
I wonder what song name they used on the official shooting script of this
episode. Anyone has a copy of that?
--
==Harmony Watcher==
(Harmony) Watcher
"Mauro" <Spam...@spamblock.com> wrote in message
news:w3rBg.5835$eL2....@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> "drifter" <ne...@home.net> wrote in message
> news:cMqBg.208$eB7...@fe07.lga...
> > Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > > The Buffyverse has a way to make secrets and feelings come out during
> > > the novelty episodes, and here the big climax is Willow and the others
> > > finally finding out what was going on with Buffy when she was spending
> > > those months dead for tax reasons. This is hampered a little by a few
> >
> > That one was nearly physically painful, wasn't it?
>
> That note clashes because it is supposed to clash. It's a note that is
not
> in the key the song is written in, and the note is written to cause that
> kind of unsettled feeling.
>
> heaven, I think I was in heaven" sounds, it isn't SMG's fault, it's Joss
> Whedon's. :-)
>
> If you want a more technical explanation, the pitch on the second syllable
> of "heaven" is a tritone from the tonic. It is a half-step higher that
the
> normal fourth scale degree and a half-step lower than the normal fifth
scale
> degree. In the middle ages, this was called the devil's interval.
>
>
By Christophe Beck's design?
--
==Harmony Watcher==
cry...@panix.com
> "Mauro" <Spam...@spamblock.com> wrote:
>
>> That note clashes because it is supposed to clash. It's a note
>> that is not in the key the song is written in, and the note is
>> written to cause that kind of unsettled feeling.
>>
>> In other words, if you don't like how the phrase, "they pulled
>> me out of heaven, I think I was in heaven" sounds, it isn't
>> SMG's fault, it's Joss Whedon's. :-)
>
Nope, Joss's. The original piano renditions pre-Beck have the
diminished chord, too.
--
-Crystal
Eric Hunter
news:1154883916.4...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
>
> - "They've got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses!/And what's
> with all the carrots?"
> - The minion not singing when "singing"
> - "So, Dawn's in trouble. Must be Tuesday." [see, cuz the show
> aired on Tuesdays. So it's like there are only three walls...]
> - "I think this line's mostly filler"
> - "She needs backup!"
> - Spike trying to quietly escape mid-song
> - "Grrr, arrrrrr"
In addition to those already mentioned:
BUFFY: Hey, I've died twice.
XANDER: Warm in the night when I'm right in her tight-
[catches himself] Embrace! Tight embrace!
followed by:
XANDER: You're the cutest of the Scoobies With your lips as red as
rubies
And your firm yet supple- [catches himself] Tight embrace!
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Definitely Superlative.
Eric.
--
lpad...@voicenet.com
> than "I Got Rhythm."
>
> --
> Opus the Penguin
> The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
But at least "I got rhythm" is the *first* line!
Arbitrar Of Quality
MBangel10 (Melissa) wrote:
> the fact that all of the actors did their own
> vocals (SMG at first opted to have a professional singer take her place
> but after reading the script, realized how important the storyline was
> to her character and decided on going through with it)
Good on her.
-AOQ
(Harmony) Watcher
"William George Ferguson" <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:4micd2dr20mog9gh1...@4ax.com...
>
> <snip>
>
> There are two ringers, Tony Head, who came from British Musical theatre,
> including playing Frank-N-Furter in a West End production of Rocky Horror
> and replacing his brother Murray Head in the West End production of Chess,
> and Hinton Battle (usually identified by his full name "Only living three
> time Tony Award winner Hinton Battle") as the singing, dancing demon Sweet
> (never named in the show, but named in the credits). Marsters has fronted
> a rock band on and off for several years, but the real surprise (for us,
> Whedon knew) was Benson. The interesting thing is that Whedon
> deliberately had her sing her big number a half-octave above her register.
> Her natural register is present in the 'Wish I Could Stay' reprise.
>
> If you can come across it on the web,check out her performance of
> "Toucha-Touch Me" from the Rocky Horror 25th Anniversary special (and
> check out Tony Head doing "You Better Wise Up, Janet Weiss", in full
> costume, from the special)
>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc427odDnw8
--
==Harmony Watcher==
Arbitrar Of Quality
> burt...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Second, Xander summoned the demon? *Xander?* Yeah, after BB&B, it's
> > very much in-character for Xander to cast spells, especially strange
> > spells he knows nothing about... not. Joss just decided not to think
> > too hard about who summoned Sweet (he basically admits this in the OMWF
> > commentary, where he says something like "Someone had to do it, and
> > Xander was unexpected"), and so he had the show abandon one of its most
> > basic themes (characters taking responsibility for their actions), he
> > had Xander cause the deaths of who knows how many citizens of Sunnydale
> > and not care about it, he had the rest of the gang *also* not care....
> > Yeah, that's some brilliant writing, there.
>
> Well, burt, SURPRISE - potentially, this might be the only time we'll
> ever agree. But, I'm with you on these two points. The Xander one
> bothered me less for a number of reasons but basically because Xander
> didn't really refuse to accept responsibility, rather it was like it
> ended up as if the situation never actually happened as no one ever
> thought about it or mentioned it again - except for the fans of course,
> who NEVER FORGET (or forgive?).
Yeah, it's a definite flaw, and a valid objection. It doesn't take
much away from the episode for me either, though.
-AOQ
William George Ferguson
>Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
>>
>>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season Six, Episode 7: "Once More, With Feeling"
>> (or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
>> Writer: Joss Whedon
>> Director: Joss Whedon
>>
>> The Buffyverse has a way to make secrets and feelings come out during
>> the novelty episodes, and here the big climax is Willow and the others
>> finally finding out what was going on with Buffy when she was spending
>> those months dead for tax reasons. This is hampered a little by a few
>> quick moments of weak/annoying singing ("heeeeeaven!!"),
>
>I'm reliably told that this is another of those specific homages.
>Aparently this kind of 'difficult' song became popular in Broadway
>musicals of the 90s, Rent and others. Or so I'm told.
It's a Sondheim thing. As I mentioned in my own response, Whedon is a
self-professed Sondheim addict.
>>but the
>> concept of the realization is still powerful enough that I was
>> captivated by this part. Willow in particular, appropriately, looks so
>> thoroughly horrified. Maybe that'll learn her not to be messin'
>> with forces beyond reckonin'. Oh, and somewhere in there there's a
>> villain and how he operates and the mystery of who summoned him and so
>> on, but who cares?
>>
>
>Who cares? Quite a few people actually. The whole "Did Xander really
>summon Sweet?" is one of those annoying discussions that just won't die.
>(Yes I know I've just possibly re-ignited it but hey it'd come back
>anyway)
My take? Xander is covering for Willow, but Dawn actually did it :)
--
I have a theory, it could be bunnies
(Harmony) Watcher
news:12dcusq...@news.supernews.com...
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154883916.4...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
>
> >
> > That particular song, "I'm Under
> > Your Spell" is good witchy whimsy that's one of the most
> > over-the-top bits of parody/homage of the musical genre (the kinda-dumb
> > movie version of _Mary Poppins_ comes to mind for me).
>
> Perhaps, but don't expect Mary Poppins to sing a line like, "Lost in
ecstasy
> spread beneath my willow tree," or, "You make me com(plete)."
>
>
"complete" was actually complete. They cut off abruptly right after "me",
not right after "com". :) (It could have been bolder but perhaps it would be
too telling if they did a sharp fade out on "plete" where "plete" could
still be heard but only faintly.)
--
==Harmony Watcher==
David E. Milligan
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
>>
>>
>> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
>> Writer: Joss Whedon
>> Director: Joss Whedon
>>
>
[ and even more ]
>> - "She needs backup!"
>
> Did you notice Tara almost spin into a post near the middle of that
> song?
>
If you'll watch closely Tara is wiping something off her stomach
after she and Anya do their backup dancing.
>> - Spike trying to quietly escape mid-song
>> - "Grrr, arrrrrr"
>
> "I gave birth to a pterodactyl."
> "Oh, my god! Did it sing?"
>
> And, while not funny, no mention of "Spread beneath my Willow tree?"
> Or "You make me come . . . plete?"
>
>> Well, that was fun. Where do we go from here? It is a good question.
>>
>>
>> So...
>>
>> One-sentence summary: Defies easy description.
>>
>> AOQ rating: Excellent
>
> Absolutely.
> --
>
> Kel
> "I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
>
Opus the Penguin
And, to be fair, Ira Gershwin later expressed his regret at choosing
that as the title rather than using the repeated line.
David E. Milligan
<lpad...@voicenet.com> wrote in message
news:1154898985.8...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>> > MT was nervous about singing, but was taking dance classes, so Joss
>> > gave her a dance number.
>>
>> I believe that it was in response to this episode that DOMDD (Dirty Old
>> Men For Dawn Dancing) was first founded. She has some nice hip action
>> going during her number with Sweet (Played by Three Time Tony Award
>> Winning Hinton Battle.)
>
> Actually, as a charter member of DOMFDD, I can tell you that there
> wasn't anything particularly arousing about Dawn's appearance in this
> episode.
>
> SPOILER WARNING AND SPACE FOR AOQ!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> DOMFDD didn't start until a year later during early S7 with the nearly
> back to back episodes of her gyrating with RJ at The Bronze in "Him"
> and her solo gyrations to the Salsa music in CWDP.
>
It's hard to believe she could dance so sexy, but was such a klutz
at cheerleading. (don't remember the ep)
Arbitrar Of Quality
drifter wrote:
> > This is hampered a little by a few
> > quick moments of weak/annoying singing ("heeeeeaven!!"),
>
> That one was nearly physically painful, wasn't it?
Yeah. And the dissonance per se isn't the problem; dissonance is good
under the right circumstances (like here). But it's painful, and not
in a good way, to hear it sung at that register by that voice.
Rick says that Spike sings "living" the same way. I can't comment too
much since that didn't stand out in my mind, but it also didn't jar me
out of the scene, so...
> And, while not funny, no mention of "Spread beneath my Willow tree?"
> Or "You make me come . . . plete?"
Well, *I* thought those were funny. Forgot to make special mention of
them, though.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Did you notice how Giles' initial theory ("a dancing demon") was
> actually correct?
Heh.
> > "I'm just worried this whole session's gonna turn into some training
> > montage from an 80's movie." "Ah. Well, if we hear any
> > inspirational power chords, we'll just lie down until they go away."
>
> Remind me - have you seen the BtVS movie? Anyway this is a none-too
> subtle reference to that.
Haven't seen it, and heh again.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Part of the problem for you here is that Hinton Battle (excuse me,
> OLTTTAWHB) is doing pure Broadway, because he is pure Broadway. This is
> what he does for a living.
[Shrug]. That's why I watch vampire shows instead of going to musical
theater performances.
> >"I'm just worried this whole session's gonna turn into some training
> >montage from an 80's movie." "Ah. Well, if we hear any
> >inspirational power chords, we'll just lie down until they go away."
> >Giles's big solo act is a good one musically, and it's kind of a
> >sad character moment too. Not so fond of Buffy not hearing any of it
> >though, just because it goes against the "rules" set by the rest of
> >the episode in which everyone is aware of any music going on around
> >them.
>
> It doesn't go against the rules, it is perforce, a prime example of the
> rules of musicals, the sung soliliquy that is meant as the character's
> thoughts, and isn't heard by the other people on the stage who are, you
> know, standing right therer.
>From what I know, most musicals seem to have "rules" they follow,
though. In some, no one's aware of anyone else's songs. In a very few
movies, music never starts unless someone turns on a stereo or there's
some source for it. Throughout OMWF, the gimmick is that everyone's
aware of the music and the fact that it's not natural, and everyone
sees even the songs/dances that they're not part of. Giles's bit (and
the reprise) are the only time that's not true.
-AOQ
Opus the Penguin
> In other words, if you don't like how the phrase, "they pulled me
> out of heaven, I think I was in heaven" sounds, it isn't SMG's
> fault, it's Joss Whedon's. :-)
I disagree. I think a better singer could have pulled it off. If the
singer sounds at all tentative on such a note, the note sounds wrong.
SMG just does not convince you that that's the note she meant to sing.
Neither does Marsters, though he gets closer.
Arbitrar Of Quality
> This was the episode that caused me to experience complete insanity.
> I've never been so close to utter freak-out over a damn tv show. There
> was a real fear, expressed by Joss among others, that it might be a
> disaster.
It must've been an interesting time to be a _Buffy_ fan.
> I don't review your reviews much, but I liked this one a lot. You do a
> good job of explaining why the things that worked for you did so, and
> why the things that didn't, didn't. Actually, you do that in pretty
> much all of your reviews, but this is my favorite episode, so I'm
> making a note of it.
Aw, thanks. Good for the ego and all. As is getting credited with a
Cola-nose salute.
> People are making fun of you for dissing 3-time Tony winner Hinton
> Battle, but I think his song is one of the weaker ones lyrically. The
> 3rd verse ("All these melodies...") was pure exposition. The lyrics
> were a bit awkward, and it doesn't really match the tone of the rest of
> the song.
Agreed. That, and the fact that I'm tolerating (and enjoying) the rest
because it's all characters I care about, not wacky monsters doing
Broadway routines.
> > Then there's more songs and stuff, which I don't feel like going
> > through one by one, except that the proud musical tradition of merging
> > seemingly separate songs together is nicely upheld by Tara and Giles.
> > The one thing that bothers me is the implication that it's somehow
> > important for Giles and the others to abandon Buffy while people are
> > bursting into flames and such. There are more important things to deal
> > with than whether Buffy can be independent enough. And remember when
> > she proved that even alone, she was the hero ("Becoming II")? And
> > remember the part where her attachments make her stronger than the
> > average bear, thus being a good thing for the world? Yeah. I'm glad
> > they get over it pretty quickly, at least.
>
> This, unfortunately, was completely driven by Tony's desire to leave
> the show. You're right that it doesn't really make sense. Espeically
> after learing that she was pulled out of Heeeeeeaaaaven. It has the
> whiff of someone who says "just get over it" to someone who's
> depressed.
The issue also has a nice chunk of text devoted to it in my in-progress
comments on "Tabula Rasa," but yeah, that's the gist of it.
> That bit was inspired by Emma's tendency to burst out with heavy metal
> singing at random moments.
Interesting.
> > Well, that was fun. Where do we go from here? It is a good question.
>
> It's all hugs and puppies from here.
Really? Bleah. You're right, this isn't a nice show.
-AOQ
Opus the Penguin
> "William George Ferguson" <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> There are two ringers, Tony Head, who came from British Musical
>> theatre, including playing Frank-N-Furter in a West End
>> production of Rocky Horror and replacing his brother Murray Head
>> in the West End production of Chess, and Hinton Battle (usually
>> identified by his full name "Only living three time Tony Award
>> winner Hinton Battle") as the singing, dancing demon Sweet (never
>> named in the show, but named in the credits). Marsters has
>> fronted a rock band on and off for several years, but the real
>> surprise (for us, Whedon knew) was Benson. The interesting thing
>> is that Whedon deliberately had her sing her big number a
>> half-octave above her register. Her natural register is present
>> in the 'Wish I Could Stay' reprise.
>>
>> If you can come across it on the web,check out her performance of
>> "Toucha-Touch Me" from the Rocky Horror 25th Anniversary special
>> (and check out Tony Head doing "You Better Wise Up, Janet Weiss",
>> in full costume, from the special)
>>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc427odDnw8
>
Eh. She's less than adequate there too. The sound is more natural
than her attempts to reach the notes in "Under Your Spell," I'll give
you that.
One Bit Shy
news:xZwBg.323894$iF6.139492@pd7tw2no...
That was great. I've never seen that.
OBS
Arbitrar Of Quality
> OMWF is a little miracle for me. With my haphazard introduction to BtVS -
> primarily through reruns in syndication and then purchasing DVDs - I never
> really saw the series complete until I ran through it in order on DVD. (S7
> is the only season I saw complete when aired.) And for some weird reason I
> never saw OMWF until I got to it in that DVD runthrough. It is literally
> the last BtVS episode I saw - and I had no idea it existed until then.
> (Reading Internet commentary came after.)
>
> So I was completely clueless (certainly not wary) through the opening
> sequence - which I took to be the start of some kind of Buffy fantasy of
> being happy - until SMG started singing. Then my eyes bugged out. Huh? I
> don't think anything in BtVS has surprised me as much as that moment. And
> then for the song to actually be really good and very much tied to the story
> to date - well, I was bowled over and just sat back to lap up the rest of
> the episode. Which never disappointed. In a way, it filled in the whole
> series for me. What a last episode to see.
Well, that's one of the plusses of watching a show in isolation. Nice
way to end, almost as good as ending with the ending.
> You're scared.
> Ashamed of what you feel
> And you can't tell the ones you love
> You know they couldn't deal
> Whisper in a dead man's ear,
> It doesn't make it real.
>
> I don't think Spike is being entirely fair to Buffy here, who I think is
> getting more emotional support out of their time than just that. But it's
> still an inciteful observation of how confiding in Spike rather than the
> Scoobies keeps it from being real. Buffy's avoiding her feelings as much as
> releasing them.
Don't have anything to add, except to ask whether that "inciteful" was
a typo or an intentional play on words.
> I'm going to be gone for a couple of days, so I'm counting on you to get
> next few ratings correct. It should be easy. The next four episodes are
> obvious Superlatives. Just ask anyone. <g>
I've seen them. They're rubbish. </Marvin>
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
Apteryx wrote:
> The other thing that's reassuring is that it gets on the same side of the
> viewer who doesn't like musicals. There bursting into song is very worrying
> to them, a sign of demonic activity.
True.
> > "We did a whole duet about dish washing." "There was an entire
> > verse about the couscous."
>
> My ears told me that that first line was "We did a whole duet about dinner
> last night." Which leads more naturally into the couscous verse (though I'm
> sure couscous can be a pain to wash if you leave it to harden).
> Unfortunately the line isn't in the subtitles. Anyone got a script?
Hmmm. Yes, the latter flows better. But then again, "I wonder if
_Danger Mouse_ is on" is also better than the actual line in WTWTA...
> > This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> & "I was able to examine the body while the police were taking witness
> arias."
Didn't even notice that one, but that's classic.
-AOQ
One Bit Shy
> One Bit Shy wrote:
>> You're scared.
>> Ashamed of what you feel
>> And you can't tell the ones you love
>> You know they couldn't deal
>> Whisper in a dead man's ear,
>> It doesn't make it real.
>>
>> I don't think Spike is being entirely fair to Buffy here, who I think is
>> getting more emotional support out of their time than just that. But
>> it's
>> still an inciteful observation of how confiding in Spike rather than the
>> Scoobies keeps it from being real. Buffy's avoiding her feelings as much
>> as
>> releasing them.
>
> Don't have anything to add, except to ask whether that "inciteful" was
> a typo or an intentional play on words.
Oh, damn. I wish I was being clever. Just sloppy editing. Although the
song did seem to kind of piss Buffy off.
OBS
Rowan Hawthorn
The version of the shooting script I have doesn't give the song titles.
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
Rowan Hawthorn
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
>>
>>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
>> (or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
>> Writer: Joss Whedon
>> Director: Joss Whedon
>>
>
> /some snippage occurs throughout/
>
>> the episode, displaying some of the same skill for making any lyric
>> sound singable that was also evident in "The Exposition Song." The
>> episode is also put together in a way that makes sense (yep, that's
>> what I do. Hoping I would be swept away by the magic and gushing
>> instead of rambling about construction and plotting? Tough.) The
>> song selection and quantity of prominent numbers seem to match the
>> actors' abilities (I take it Hannigan's not so musically inclined?).
>
> She really, really didn't want to sing. At the time, there were a lot of
> snarky comments on the newsgroup about her ability. I thought she was
> better than some people who make their *living* singing
I can't say that, but I *did* think she was much harsher on herself than
necessary. She certainly was nowhere near as bad as some people I've
heard, although it's pretty obvious she's not really a singer.
Rowan Hawthorn
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> (or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
> the episode, displaying some of the same skill for making any lyric
> sound singable that was also evident in "The Exposition Song." The
> episode is also put together in a way that makes sense (yep, that's
> what I do. Hoping I would be swept away by the magic and gushing
> instead of rambling about construction and plotting? Tough.) The song
> selection and quantity of prominent numbers seem to match the actors'
> abilities (I take it Hannigan's not so musically inclined?).
Apparently, AH was very nervous and asked Joss to not give her much
singing to do. Personally, I think she's harder on herself than
necessary; she's obviously not a singer, but I've heard worse. She does
a brief bit in "Date Movie", and she was obviously more confident about
here singing by the time that was filmed. Her voice isn't bad at all,
but it's not terribly strong, and she tends to waver on key.
>
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - "They've got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses!/And what's
> with all the carrots?"
> - The minion not singing when "singing"
> - "So, Dawn's in trouble. Must be Tuesday." [see, cuz the show
> aired on Tuesdays. So it's like there are only three walls...]
> - "I think this line's mostly filler"
> - "She needs backup!"
> - Spike trying to quietly escape mid-song
> - "Grrr, arrrrrr"
This isn't a Funny Line, but Buffy's entrance into the Bronze is,
indeed, a hell of an entrance. "Walk Through The Fire" is probably my
favorite number besides "Under Your Spell," and to a large degree, it's
the backdrop of the characters' actions that does it.
>
> Well, that was fun. Where do we go from here? It is a good question.
Indeed...
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Defies easy description.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Damn straight. There's hope for you yet!
Rowan Hawthorn
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
>>
>>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
>> (or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
>> Writer: Joss Whedon
>> Director: Joss Whedon
>>
>> lines in synchronized fashion, making it hard or impossible to hear
>> what's being sad. That's too bad, since it blocks some very good
>> dialogue. According to the transcriber, the following appear in OMWF,
>> and I didn't hear any of them:
>>
>> "Well, I sang, but I had my guitar at the hotel... that would explain
>> the huge backing orchestra I couldn't see and the synchronized dancing
>> from the room service chaps."
>>
>> "We did a whole duet about dish washing." "There was an entire
>> verse about the couscous."
>
> My ears told me that that first line was "We did a whole duet about dinner
> last night." Which leads more naturally into the couscous verse (though I'm
> sure couscous can be a pain to wash if you leave it to harden).
> Unfortunately the line isn't in the subtitles. Anyone got a script?
That line isn't in the copy of the shooting script I have. Improvised?
Added by Joss during filming? Who knows. The copy I have shows this:
WILLOW: GILES
(looks at Tara) Well, I sang, but I have
We thought we were the only my guitar at the hotel and
ones! It was bizarre! I often...
TARA
We were talking, and
then... It was like...
BUFFY
Like you were in a musical?
GILES
... of course that would explain the
huge backing orchestra I couldn't see
and the synchronized dancing from the
room service chaps...
ANYA
Xander and I were fighting about
Monkey Trouble.
BUFFY
You have monkey trouble?
XANDER
(unenthused)
It's a film.
ANYA
It's a corker!
XANDER
Especially the ninth time.
ANYA
And we were arguing and then
everything rhymed, and there were
harmonies and a dance with coconuts...
Terry
> Throughout OMWF, the gimmick is that everyone's
> aware of the music and the fact that it's not natural, and everyone
> sees even the songs/dances that they're not part of. Giles's bit (and
> the reprise) are the only time that's not true.
Actually, and maybe somebody can explain this better, I have trouble
understanding how much of "I'll Never Tell" can be heard by the singers.
Obviously, there are parts they can't hear, but then they discuss the song.
But it's a song about things they can't tell each other. And neither of
them seem to get upset about what the other is singing.
Unless I'm confused. Which is always possible.
- Terry
Don Sample
wrote:
Well, except for the hairy toes and beady eyes.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
in the song they are forced to obey the rules of the musical
subsequently when they are walk talking with giles
they talk about how irritated they were getting
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
ny dnrqn greebevfz ahpyrne obzo vena gnyvona ovt oebgure
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
Paul Hyett
wrote :
>>
>>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
>>(or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
>>Writer: Joss Whedon
>>Director: Joss Whedon
>
>sing. Pretty much everyone agreed that she was having major panic attacks
>about even the little she did.
Or she realised what a bloody awful idea a musical episode was...
>(for those not keeping count, 6 lines, less
>even than Trachtenberg, who bargained with JW to let her dance rather than
>sing).
She sang? I don't think my ears can detect that high a pitch. :)
>
>(if the 'find out who's in Buffy's body spell, is hereinafter known as the
>Willow Orgasm Spell, this would be known as the Tara Orgasm Song)
Grin.
>
>The thing about most 'good' musicals (which you might not know since you
>don't watch musicals)
The only musical I've ever liked was Grease.
However, my main issue with the episode is : you don't write musical
parts for people who *can't* sing!
--
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
maxims
Mauro wrote:
>
> If you want a more technical explanation, the pitch on the second syllable
> of "heaven" is a tritone from the tonic. It is a half-step higher that the
> normal fourth scale degree and a half-step lower than the normal fifth scale
> degree. In the middle ages, this was called the devil's interval.
Thank you! It's one thing to argue that the actors are singing "flat"
deliberately, it's quite another to be able to state exactly what is
going in musically. Your explanation is much appreciated.
maxims
George W Harris
:"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in
Really? Which part of "One more verse of our little
ditty and I'd have been looking for the gas can" and "It's
like a nightmare *about* a plague" convinced you they
weren't upset? Or
XANDER: It's like, I didn't wanna be saying things-
...
XANDER: -but they just kept pouring out.
...
XANDER: And they rhymed and they were mean
:
:Unless I'm confused. Which is always possible.
:
:- Terry
--
e^(i*pi)+1=0
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.
maxims
George W Harris wrote:
> :People are making fun of you for dissing 3-time Tony winner Hinton
> :Battle, but I think his song is one of the weaker ones lyrically. The
> :3rd verse ("All these melodies...") was pure exposition.
Well, of course it is! What else is the demon going to sing about, how
he feels about being conjured? And it's so much more satsifying to have
that particular bit of plot mechanics cleared up in a song than in a
speech.
>The lyrics
> :were a bit awkward, and it doesn't really match the tone of the rest of
> :the song.
I have to agree that the lyrics were a stretch, but on the other hand
there's a certain pleasure to be got out of a really absurd rhyme - you
get the same sort of thing in Byron's poetry - and in any case wrapping
up the negative side of the spell in a mere two lines is an achievement
in itself. And I like it when the door comes down from the ceiling just
so our combustible customer can fall out of it.
>
> Still, he can hoof it.
Oh my God, he can. And he can sing too. And he's got wonderful comic
timing. After repeated viewings (no, I'm not going to admit to how
many) his number has ended up my favourite - there comes a point when
you know an episode so well that you (or at least I) no longer get any
kicks out of the plot or character development it contributes and just
appreciate sheer performance quality. And HB's got that in spades.
maxims
George W Harris
<tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
:This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
"I've seen some of these underworld child bride
deals and, and they never end well. Well, maybe once."
I'd like to hear about the once.
--
They say there's air in your lungs that's been there for years.
George W Harris
wrote:
:Both in the song words and
:in his action as everytime Spike tells Buffy to leave him be, he turns up
:right back in her face.
"I hope she fries, I'm free if that bitch dies! I'd
better help her out."
--
"The truths of mathematics describe a bright and clear universe,
exquisite and beautiful in its structure, in comparison with
which the physical world is turbid and confused."
-Eulogy for G.H.Hardy
George W Harris
wrote:
:> The one thing that bothers me is the implication that it's somehow
:> important for Giles and the others to abandon Buffy while people are
:> bursting into flames and such. There are more important things to deal
:> with than whether Buffy can be independent enough. And remember when
:> she proved that even alone, she was the hero ("Becoming II")? And
:> remember the part where her attachments make her stronger than the
:> average bear, thus being a good thing for the world? Yeah. I'm glad
:> they get over it pretty quickly, at least.
:
:It is pretty silly. It is at least part of the Giles's obvious intention to
:make Buffy stand on her own two feet, but the reasons why it is wrong for
:now are obvious enough to be apparent to Giles only moments later ("Am I
:leaving Dawn in danger, is my Slayer too far gone to care"). The only
:justification is that its necessary for the great "Walk Through the Fire"
:number which follows.
Okay, I'm going to come to Giles's and Joss's
defense here. The dilemma Giles is facing is that as
long as Buffy can always rely on him (and the scoobies)
for help, she's never going to develop as strongly as she
might. So, it's necessary that she stand on her own.
However, for that to be meaningful she needs to stand
on her own in situations where she 'needs' help,
otherwise it's just posturing. So, for him ever to follow
through on this idea (and it's an idea that's been
simmering since near the end of S4), at some point he's
going to have to do it at a point where it could be
dangerous. That's not the reason why it's wrong to do it
now, that's a reason why whenever it's done, it won't be
without risk. The fact that he's *always* helped her in
these situations is the problem; at some point the training
wheels have to come off, even if it results in a skinned
knee.
--
/bud...@nirvana.net/h:k
George W Harris
wrote:
:And the knowledge
:that back in their basment lair, the Nerd Trio are poised like a cobra,
:waiting to strike.
An incredibly lame cobra, obsessed with Star Trek
and James Bond.
--
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar." -Wash, 'Serenity'
George W Harris
<rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:ANYA
:Xander and I were fighting about
:Monkey Trouble.
:
:BUFFY
:You have monkey trouble?
:
:XANDER
:(unenthused)
:It's a film.
:
:ANYA
:It's a corker!
:
:XANDER
:Especially the ninth time.
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0110557/
--
Firefly Fan Since September 20th, 2002 - Browncoat Since Birth
maxims
> > Your Spell" is good witchy whimsy that's one of the most
> > over-the-top bits of parody/homage of the musical genre (the kinda-dumb
> > movie version of _Mary Poppins_ comes to mind for me).
>
> Perhaps, but don't expect Mary Poppins to sing a line like, "Lost in ecstasy
> spread beneath my willow tree," or, "You make me com(plete)."
>
If you take a closer look at the song, there's really nothing Mary
Poppinsy about it at all. If I can be excused for recycling something I
originally posted elsewhere, here is a brief analysis of the lyrics:
Most obviously, 'I'm Under Your Spell' takes a romantic trope -
being in love is like being under a spell - and develops that, with
references to 'a world enchanted/spirits and charms in the air',
'It's magic, I can tell,' 'Your power shone/Brighter than any
I've known,' and 'You worked your charms so well.' Linked to
the talk of magic is nature imagery - fittingly, because, as Xander
has just reminded us, witches are all about 'women power and love the
earth', and so we get references to 'sun' and 'shadow',
'moon' and 'tide', 'willow tree', and 'surging like the
sea', all of which can be seen as related to magic, thanks to the
Wicca connection of witchcraft with nature. Of course, the magical
imagery is not just there to be romantic, in spite of AB's beautiful
voice and the 'big love song' melody. It's packed with heavy duty
dramatic irony (dramatic irony meaning that the audience knows more
than the character) - we've seen Willow do her 'Forget' spell
on Tara, we know that Tara is not only figuratively but quite literally
under Willow's spell. In taking part of her memory, Willow seeks to
control Tara, to turn her into a malleable girlfriend who will let her
do what she likes and continue to approve of her. She has begun a
process of chipping away at Tara's independent identity, turning her
into nothing more than a reflection of herself. In spite of its
romantic surface, the song foreshadows this process of Tara's
identity being swallowed up by Willow's. Before she begins singing,
Tara tells Willow that when people look at her 'I know exactly what
they see. You.' Later, in the middle of her verse of gratitude to
Willow for bringing her out of the shadows and into the light, she
touches unwittingly on the truth when she sings 'Something just
isn't right', and later, and still more ominously, 'Nothing I
can do/You just took my soul with you.' The final verse is full of
erotic imagery 'I can feel you inside', 'I break with every
swell', 'Lost in ecstasy', 'Spread beneath my Willow tree',
but it is notable that this is all imagery of submission to a
dominating power. 'I can feel you inside' gives a really nasty hint
of just how far Willow is prepared to take over Tara, till there's
nothing much left but Willow, but the other lines also clearly show
Tara as passive and submissive in the face of Willow's power,
'Wanting you so helplessly' as she sings. This dominance/submission
relationship is echoed by the final shot of Willow leaning above Tara
as she floats above the bed. Yes, it's a neat way of suggesting oral
sex, but it also puts Willow firmly in control while Tara just lies
there. The position - Willow on top - erphef va 'Gnohyn Enfn' jurer,
bapr ntnva, Jvyybj unf gevrq gb pbageby Gnen ol gnxvat zrzbevrf sebz
ure. Willow, it should be noted, doesn't join in the song. This is
no love duet, like Xander and Anya's, no affectionate squabbling of
equals. Willow simply watches and approves, basking in the image of
herself that she sees in Tara's eyes. This is Tara as she wants her,
with none of those inconvenient differing opinions or the will to stand
up to her.
When Tara picks up the song again after she's found out about the
Lethe's bramble, it's evident that she has fully understood the
danger she's in, and this time when she sings 'I'm under Your
Spell' the audience knows she means it literally.
maxims
Elisi
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> Season Six, Episode 7: "Once More, With Feeling"
> (or "Duuuh? Why's everybody singing?")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
I've not got time to read all the comments, so sorry for repeating
stuff that's probably already been said! Anyway, here we are, the
seventh episode. 7 is the magical number in the Buffy verse - the 7th
episode is always special: It will take all the themes and storylines
and push them forward in big leaps. And here of course there's also
singing...
> OMWF first appeals to the wary viewer by starting out with a tune that
> our star can sing. I don't think Gellar quite has the pipes to pull
> her weight on some of the later numbers, but the first song is kept in
> a low register and low-key tone that she can handle. "Alive" could
> stand on its own as a wacky short piece summing up Where Things Are.
> The entertainment value of Buffy angsting about nothing penetrating her
> heart while staking participants in the song requires no explanation.
"I can't even see, if this is really me..." I think that's a very
important line, especially considering the end.
> The second bit of reassurance comes with "so, did anybody ... uh ...
> last night, you know, did anybody, um ... burst into song?" Here the
> series is a bit of a slave to past precedent - the rule that's held
> for previous Very Special Episodes (or, as I snarkily say. Art
> Projects) is that however bizarre they get, they *must* fit into the
> show's continuity. Even if the explanation is something as simple as
> "a demon cast a spell," as it is here, that's important to
> include. And close on the heels of that, there's Xander's "evil
> witches!.../Which is ridiculous, 'cause witches they were
> persecuted/Wicca good and love the earth and woman power and I'll be
> over here." fit neatly into the rhythm of the song. From this point,
> there's never any doubt that we'll still be getting _Buffy_-style
> dialogue. It'll just be in song. OMWF will go on to seriously
> attempt to touch on and in some cases advance the ongoing storylines.
> We've mentioned this before, but one of the reasons BTVS is special
> is that it has no episodes that are gimmick shows and nothing more.
::nods:: Also it is probably the only musical ever to actually have an
explanation for why people sing. I re-watched this the other day, and I
noticed that Xander's contribution is only very slight. Mostly what he
says is "It's unnatural." which can be said about 99% of the stuff that
happens to them. There's of course also the 'Why should we care?' from
Buffy... that they don't quite understand, but that Giles is a little
worried about.
> There're a few little looks into the rest of the world (with David F.
> and Marti making musical cameos, according to the transcript), with the
> basic conceit being that there're these big banal showstopping
> numbers going on that we only see a few seconds of. Well, I smiled.
> Some good dumb fun is needed to keep this episode from getting too
> serious. That was sarcastic, but less so than you'd think, since
> OMWF does get surprisingly gloomy at times. Speaking of dumb fun,
> Xander and Anya have a little mostly-fluff routine (love the dancing!)
> and get to deal with the little foibles that come up when you've
> committed to living your life with someone and realize that their
> little annoying habits aren't going to disappear. We knew Xander had
> misgivings, but it seems Anya does too. I still say it's perfectly
> natural for people in this stage of a relationship.
In the light of who summoned Sweet, it's interesting to watch the
aftermath of that song - as in when the couple are talking to Giles.
Suddenly Xander is very adamant that this is a *bad* thing and wants it
gone. Also he gets very concerned when Giles mentions the bodies (that
he took a look while the police took witness arias...).
> The show holds off on having Spike sing until the end of act two,
> another example of the kind of buildup I've been talking about, since
> it gets the viewer looking forward to seeing it. This is probably my
> favorite part of the show. Marsters, dropping the accent for once, is
> perfectly suited for the harder-edged piece and the character is well
> suited for that kind of confusion. It helps that the song itself is
> catchy as hell. What I was really enjoying, though, is that here more
> than ever, the actors never stop acting. During the quieter bridge
> portion, Spike is singing his lines hesitantly, with the same
> inflection he would have if it were spoken dialogue, and Buffy is
> actively reacting to every word. At all times, it's Spike and Buffy
> playing these uncharacteristic roles, not Marsters and Gellar.
Did you notice Spike's efforts to get her out before the song started?
And the look on his face after the first line is hysterical! Anyway,
he's been hiding all this since Buffy came back - he's just been her
friend (for lack of a better word), and was (apparently) happy with
that.
> Once again, constant effort to keep things from getting dull - now
> it's Dawn's turn to tell us about her worries, huh? Just going
> through the cast one at a time? Nope, here's our villain and our
> suspenseful act break. Actually, Sweet's routine is one of the few
> times I found myself getting bored during OMWF... it's just a song
> and dance number to me and goes on too long. Let's move on.
Also we never get a look into Dawn's head - what is she worried about?
She's acting out and stealing, but... it would appear that no one even
cares. Poor Dawn.
> Then there's more songs and stuff, which I don't feel like going
> through one by one, except that the proud musical tradition of merging
> seemingly separate songs together is nicely upheld by Tara and Giles.
> The one thing that bothers me is the implication that it's somehow
> important for Giles and the others to abandon Buffy while people are
> bursting into flames and such. There are more important things to deal
> with than whether Buffy can be independent enough. And remember when
> she proved that even alone, she was the hero ("Becoming II")? And
> remember the part where her attachments make her stronger than the
> average bear, thus being a good thing for the world? Yeah. I'm glad
> they get over it pretty quickly, at least.
Will leave WIllow and Tara until after the next episode, when you've
seen the fallout.
I think Giles knows that Buffy often fights best when backed up against
a wall. He's not sure how to get her to connect, so he thinks that
maybe forcing her to do something will help... only as we see, she
never even bothers to fight, she just offers to take Dawn's place.
But to dwell on Giles for a moment. I'm sure people are arguing like
mad about how utterly out of character it is for Giles to abandon her.
And I'm not saying it's a good thing for him to consider leaving (of
course it isn't), but I don't think it's out of character. Way back in
S1 (NKABOTFD) he told Buffy about how upset he was when his father told
him he was destined to be a watcher. And then later he dropped out of
his studies to raise demons with Ethan and pals. It was only because
one of them died that he returned to school. And also there was all of
S4 when he seemed very happy to 'retire' and have a life of his own. He
was ready to leave at the start of S5 (and had been planning to for
months), and only stayed because Buffy wanted to explore her
slayerness.
But then she died - and unlike the Scoobies, Giles did his best to move
on and grieve. He had always known that this day would come, and when
he left in 'Bargaining' I think he'd really let go. We see this in
'Flooded':
~~~~~~~~~~~~
GILES: Yes. Otherwise, there's, uh, nothing really to report. I, um, I
keep a flat in Bath. I, I, uh, met with a few old friends. Almost made
a new one, which I think is ... statistically impossible for a man of
my age.
He takes off his jacket, tosses it onto the sofa.
BUFFY: And now you're back.
GILES: Yes.
BUFFY: Wow. Giles, are you miserable about it, or just really British?
GILES: (smiles, takes off his glasses) I can't lie to you, Buffy. (sits
beside her) Um ... leaving Sunnydale was, uh, was difficult. And, uh,
coming back was...
BUFFY: I'm guessing the word is "inconvenient"?
GILES: No. Bewildering.
~~~~~~~~~~~
That's all for now. Will get back to this after the next episode.
> The Buffyverse has a way to make secrets and feelings come out during
> the novelty episodes, and here the big climax is Willow and the others
> finally finding out what was going on with Buffy when she was spending
> those months dead for tax reasons. This is hampered a little by a few
> quick moments of weak/annoying singing ("heeeeeaven!!"), but the
> concept of the realization is still powerful enough that I was
> captivated by this part. Willow in particular, appropriately, looks so
> thoroughly horrified. Maybe that'll learn her not to be messin'
> with forces beyond reckonin'. Oh, and somewhere in there there's a
> villain and how he operates and the mystery of who summoned him and so
> on, but who cares?
Obviously a lot of people care. I do too, but not for the same reasons.
Xander didn't know that people would die, so I'm not too hung up on
that - people die all the time in Sunnydale. What about all the vamps
that run away? Also B, B & B was nearly 4 years ago - that's a long
time. The spell he cast then was out of vengeance (and isn't that
interesting, btw?), a petulant and hurt teenage response to being
dumped. This is different. _Why_ does Xander summon Sweet? So he and
Anya will have a happy ending - to make sure they'll work out. Which
shows that his fears really are running rather deep. I mean she's an
1100 year old ex-demon and he comes from a very dysfunctional home.
("We could really raise the beam in making marriage a hell").
Just worth noting.
> Our hero and William get together this way, huh? And it doesn't seem
> like it's just because of the gimmickry; I'll remember that scene
> independently of the fact that it's a song. Back in "Crush," I
> was convinced that some major things would have to change before they
> could hook up. Naturally I was thinking about Spike changing, and he
> has done that to a degree. What hadn't even occurred to me was that
> a difference in Buffy could be the trigger. It makes total sense to me
> that S6 Buffy, cast out of Heaven into a world of anhedonia,
> desperately trying to feel something, might do things that would have
> been unfathomable to S5 Buffy. Well played, show.
An excellent summary of the situation. Of course Spike _has_ changed
since 'Crush', and has managed to prove that he loves Buffy - in as
much as a soulless vampire can love anyway. It's interesting to note
the line, "I hope she fries, I'm free if that bitch dies - I better
help her out!" Which sort-of echoes his line from 'Crush' ("Why do you
bitches keep tormenting me?") - like many people he resorts to swearing
when he's conflicted.
Another point is Buffy's change of clothes. When she's training she's
wearing a white top (and track suit bottoms?). But when she goes off to
meet Sweet (on her own!) she's changed into an outfit that is (almost)
an exact copy of Spike's - black jeans, red top, long black coat.
Interesting...
I know some people are complaining because it was _Spike_ who saved
her, but since Spike has shown resistance to (some) spells in the past
(and he manages to walk out during the last song), I think this is
perfectly logical. And how ironic that it's a vampire who tries to tell
Buffy about living.
I also fell I need to point out that Spike tries to send Buffy away
when she follows him outside.
On a more flippant
> note: as we all know, screwing a vampire is indeed the correct antidote
> for the inability to feel. Maybe Buffy got some advice about that from
> Angel during their off-screen chat...
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! :D
> Well, that was fun. Where do we go from here? It is a good question.
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Defies easy description.
>
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Amen. Thanks for a brilliant review.
drifter
> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote in message
> news:12dcusq...@news.supernews.com...
>> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1154883916.4...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
>>
>>>
>>> That particular song, "I'm Under
>>> Your Spell" is good witchy whimsy that's one of the most
>>> over-the-top bits of parody/homage of the musical genre (the
>>> kinda-dumb movie version of _Mary Poppins_ comes to mind for me).
>>
>> Perhaps, but don't expect Mary Poppins to sing a line like, "Lost in
>> ecstasy spread beneath my willow tree," or, "You make me com(plete)."
>>
>>
> the last "complete" was actually complete. They cut off abruptly
> right after "me", not right after "com". :) (It could have been
> bolder but perhaps it would be too telling if they did a sharp fade
> out on "plete" where "plete" could still be heard but only faintly.)
Also being nitpicky, but the line is actually SUNG "come...plete."
With the long "come" there *seems* to be a break in the middle of
the word. As I hear it, anyway.
--
Kel
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
cry...@panix.com
> If you take a closer look at the song, there's really nothing Mary
> Poppinsy about it at all. If I can be excused for recycling something I
> originally posted elsewhere, here is a brief analysis of the lyrics:
[ . . . ]
> She has begun a process of chipping away at Tara's independent
> identity, turning her into nothing more than a reflection of
> herself. In spite of its romantic surface, the song foreshadows
> this process of Tara's identity being swallowed up by Willow's.
> Before she begins singing, Tara tells Willow that when people
> look at her 'I know exactly what they see. You.'
[ . . . ]
> When Tara picks up the song again after she's found out about
> the Lethe's bramble, it's evident that she has fully understood
> the danger she's in, and this time when she sings 'I'm under
> Your Spell' the audience knows she means it literally.
One more quote that fits well with your analysis:
"Willow, don't you see? There'll be nothing left of me!"
--
-Crystal
Elisi
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > Our hero and William get together this way, huh? And it doesn't seem
> > like it's just because of the gimmickry; I'll remember that scene
> > independently of the fact that it's a song. Back in "Crush," I
> > was convinced that some major things would have to change before they
> > could hook up. Naturally I was thinking about Spike changing, and he
> > has done that to a degree. What hadn't even occurred to me was that
> > a difference in Buffy could be the trigger. It makes total sense to me
> > that S6 Buffy, cast out of Heaven into a world of anhedonia,
> > desperately trying to feel something, might do things that would have
> > been unfathomable to S5 Buffy. Well played, show.
Addendum:
Note the fire imagery. From 'Walk Through The Fire':
Buffy:
I touch the fire and it freezes me
I look into it and it's black
Why can't I feel? My skin should crack and peel
I want the fire back!
Spike:
The torch I bear is scorching me...
Buffy feels too little, Spike feels to much. Of course she goes to him
to 'get the fire back'. And this goes *way* back. Buffy knows that her
feelings are her power:
>From 'What's My Line':
Kendra: Emotions are weakness, Buffy. You shouldn't entertain dem.
Buffy: Kendra, my emotions give me power. They're total assets!
-
Buffy: ... You're good, but power alone isn't enough. A good fighter
needs to know how to improvise, to go with the flow. Uh-uh, seriously,
don't get me wrong, y-you really do have potential.
Kendra: Potential? I could wipe de floor wit you right now!
Buffy: That would be anger you're feeling.
Kendra: What?
Buffy: You feel it, right? How the anger gives you fire? A Slayer needs
that.
>From 'Something Blue':
Buffy: I know.. I have to get away from that bad boy thing. There's no
good there. Seeing Angel in LA... even for five minutes... hello to the
pain.
Willow: The pain is not a friend.
Buffy: But I can't help thinking - isn't that where the fire comes
from? Can a nice, safe relationship be that intense? I know it's nuts,
but.. part of me believes that real love and passion have to go hand in
hand with pain and fighting.
[Buffy stakes a vamp without breaking stride.]
Buffy: I wonder where I get that from.
The thing is of course - Spike isn't Angel. Spike loves, sure, but he
has no moral compass. After falling for Buffy he's been trying to
'behave' - doing what Buffy wants. But what does Buffy want now? Fire
apparently... and that's a dangerous thing to play with.
George W Harris
:"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in
I forgot the most obvious thing - they sure
seemed to be upset at being told they have hairy
toes and beady eyes.
:
:Unless I'm confused. Which is always possible.
:
:- Terry
Elisi
> ANYA
> And we were arguing and then
> everything rhymed, and there were
> harmonies and a dance with coconuts...
Bs pbhefr gur pbpbahgf ner zragvbarq va gur 'Frysyrff' synfuonpx:
NALN
Ubarl? Jnf gung jrveq? Gung guvat rneyvre jvgu gur fvatvat... naq gur
pbpbahgf.
Gur pbagvahvgl bs guvf fubj arire snvyf gb nfgbhaq zr!
Don Sample
Elisi
One Bit Shy wrote:
> I can't think of anything else like that in the series where a character
> speaks directly to us. By itself that would make me jump I think. But it's
> more than that. I don't know how to express it other than being intensely
> intimate. (The jump to close-up probably helps.) I didn't see previews for
> this - got it as it occurred in the episode. But I sure got the shock.
Naqerj va 'Fgbelgryyre': "Jnfa'g Wbanguna whfg gur phgrfg guvat?"
Npghnyyl nyy bs 'Fgbelgryyre' vf shyy bs 'guvf vf n _fubj_' fubgf. Gur
jnl gur pnzren pbafgnagyl chyyf onpx naq znxrf gur ivrjre er-rinyhgr
jung ur'f whfg frra. Vg'f irel jryy qbar.
vague disclaimer
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> "Mike Zeares" <mze...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1154911680....@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > One Bit Shy wrote:
> >
> >> From Buffy looking directly at us (so shockingly direct and intimate that
> >> it
> >> makes me squirm) and telling us to sing along [snip]
> >
> > Ah, so I wasn't the only one strongly affected by that. I joke about
> > her coming out of my tv and singing directly to me, but it almost felt
> > like that. The first time I saw it, in the preview that aired during
> > or after "Life Serial," it hit me like a shock. It was almost too much
> > to believe that I'd actually seen it. Which probably doesn't make
> > sense, but I was in a state of anxiety over the mere existance of the
> > musical, and this just took me right over the line. Anyway, it's still
> > one of my favorite shots from the entire series.
>
> I can't think of anything else like that in the series where a character
> speaks directly to us. By itself that would make me jump I think. But it's
> more than that. I don't know how to express it other than being intensely
> intimate. (The jump to close-up probably helps.) I didn't see previews for
> this - got it as it occurred in the episode. But I sure got the shock.
"Like there were only three walls and not a fourth wall"
One of the toughest choices any show faces is if, when and how break the
fourth wall. The brilliance of this moment is how the viewer is invited
to join in at Buffy's bleakest moment, rather than some artificially
happy sing-a-long-a-slayer moment.
Plus, SMG completely sells it.
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
Elisi
(Harmony) Watcher wrote:
> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote in message
> news:12dcusq...@news.supernews.com...
> > "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1154883916.4...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > > Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > That particular song, "I'm Under
> > > Your Spell" is good witchy whimsy that's one of the most
> > > over-the-top bits of parody/homage of the musical genre (the kinda-dumb
> > > movie version of _Mary Poppins_ comes to mind for me).
> >
> > Perhaps, but don't expect Mary Poppins to sing a line like, "Lost in
> ecstasy
> > spread beneath my willow tree," or, "You make me com(plete)."
> >
> >
> Just being nitpicky, but Don has pointed out elsewhere previously, the last
> "complete" was actually complete. They cut off abruptly right after "me",
> not right after "com". :)
Yes, but that makes the viewer continue onto the next syllable in
his/her head. So what we fill in the 'come' ourselves...
Mike Zeares
Rowan Hawthorn wrote:
>>
> The version of the shooting script I have doesn't give the song titles.
But the official script book and the soundtrack cd do.
jil...@hotmail.com
George W Harris wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 04:52:21 GMT, Terry <no...@nonesuch.com> wrote:
>
> :"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in
> :news:1154919266.3...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> :understanding how much of "I'll Never Tell" can be heard by the singers.
> :Obviously, there are parts they can't hear, but then they discuss the song.
> :But it's a song about things they can't tell each other. And neither of
> :them seem to get upset about what the other is singing.
>
> Really? Which part of "One more verse of our little
> ditty and I'd have been looking for the gas can" and "It's
> like a nightmare *about* a plague" convinced you they
> weren't upset? Or
I think he means WHILE they were singing. However, Xander and Anya
were singing together, about each other. It was a duet.
Buffy was not singing with Giles, she was going through the motions
(hahah) of her training exercise. Giles was not singing to HER, he was
singing really to himself. That's a telling thing, as well.
Rowan Hawthorn
> On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 00:41:25 -0400, Rowan Hawthorn
> <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> :ANYA
> :Xander and I were fighting about
> :Monkey Trouble.
> :
> :BUFFY
> :You have monkey trouble?
> :
> :XANDER
> :(unenthused)
> :It's a film.
> :
> :ANYA
> :It's a corker!
> :
> :XANDER
> :Especially the ninth time.
>
> http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0110557/
Oo-kay...
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
Rowan Hawthorn
Well, yeah, but the poster I replied to asked about the *shooting*
script. In the shooting script I have, the dialogue simply turns into
lyrics without any titles, distinguished only by being in upper-case
(that's different from musical theater I've done where the songs were
usually set apart from dialogue with titles and completely different
formatting.)
(Harmony) Watcher
"drifter" <ne...@home.net> wrote in message
news:%_CBg.3884$ZE4....@fe05.lga...
not an English word.
--
==Harmony Watcher==
Jeff Jacoby
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1154883916.4...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
>> but the
>> concept of the realization is still powerful enough that I was
>> captivated by this part. Willow in particular, appropriately, looks so
>> thoroughly horrified. Maybe that'll learn her not to be messin'
>> with forces beyond reckonin'. Oh, and somewhere in there there's a
>> villain and how he operates and the mystery of who summoned him and so
>> on, but who cares?
>
> Give me something to sing about. Maybe it's not the greatest tune in the
> world, but the ideas sung about are emotionally shattering for the series.
> From Buffy looking directly at us (so shockingly direct and intimate that it
> makes me squirm) and telling us to sing along, to Dawn's reprise of Buffy's
> words to her in The Gift I'm held spellbound by it.
>
> Give me something to sing about. We've seen Buffy go through emotional
> crisis lots of times. But never bared so nakedly before all. And nobody
> can answer her request. None of the Scoobies have a refrain to sing that
> gives her what she so desperately needs.
To be fair to the Scoobies, they got all of 5 seconds to
deal with this shattering revelation from their best friend.
It's no wonder if they're still in shock and can't answer
her only moments later.
> Nobody except Spike.
While Spike has had days to think about it, knowing all along
the real reason for her behavior.
Jeff
lili...@gmail.com
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> William George Ferguson wrote:
>
> > Part of the problem for you here is that Hinton Battle (excuse me,
> > OLTTTAWHB) is doing pure Broadway, because he is pure Broadway. This is
> > what he does for a living.
>
> [Shrug]. That's why I watch vampire shows instead of going to musical
> theater performances.
>
> > >"I'm just worried this whole session's gonna turn into some training
> > >montage from an 80's movie." "Ah. Well, if we hear any
> > >inspirational power chords, we'll just lie down until they go away."
> > >Giles's big solo act is a good one musically, and it's kind of a
> > >sad character moment too. Not so fond of Buffy not hearing any of it
> > >though, just because it goes against the "rules" set by the rest of
> > >the episode in which everyone is aware of any music going on around
> > >them.
> >
> > It doesn't go against the rules, it is perforce, a prime example of the
> > rules of musicals, the sung soliliquy that is meant as the character's
> > thoughts, and isn't heard by the other people on the stage who are, you
> > know, standing right therer.
>
> >From what I know, most musicals seem to have "rules" they follow,
> though. In some, no one's aware of anyone else's songs. In a very few
> movies, music never starts unless someone turns on a stereo or there's
> some source for it. Throughout OMWF, the gimmick is that everyone's
> aware of the music and the fact that it's not natural, and everyone
> sees even the songs/dances that they're not part of. Giles's bit (and
> the reprise) are the only time that's not true.
>
Notice that neither Buffy nor Willow hear Giles or Tara's songs?
The basic idea is that Buffy and Willow don't want to hear what Giles
and Tara have to say, where as Anya and Xander did want to hear each
other's complaints.
Lore
lili...@gmail.com
George W Harris schreef:
Maybe so, but this is NOT the moment for the 'training wheels' to come
off.
Compare it to a coma patient, you don't expect someone who just woke up
from a coma that's lasted several months to just get her act back
together in a matter of weeks. And you definitely don't ask said coma
patient to take care of her underage sister and her friend's problems,
in that same amount of time.
They should have given her at least half a year to adjust before
putting any pressure back on her. Especially Giles who should have
known better. Hell, give her three months, anything other than at most
a month since Bargaining. But they didn't give her that time.
And that's why Giles leaving at that point and expecting her to stand
on her own at that point was the worst decision he could have ever
made.
Lore
lili...@gmail.com
> > villain and how he operates and the mystery of who summoned him and so
> > on, but who cares?
>
> Obviously a lot of people care. I do too, but not for the same reasons.
> Xander didn't know that people would die, so I'm not too hung up on
> that - people die all the time in Sunnydale. What about all the vamps
> that run away? Also B, B & B was nearly 4 years ago - that's a long
> time. The spell he cast then was out of vengeance (and isn't that
> interesting, btw?), a petulant and hurt teenage response to being
> dumped. This is different. _Why_ does Xander summon Sweet? So he and
> Anya will have a happy ending - to make sure they'll work out. Which
> shows that his fears really are running rather deep. I mean she's an
> 1100 year old ex-demon and he comes from a very dysfunctional home.
> ("We could really raise the beam in making marriage a hell").
>
I don't know, my main problem with Xander summoning Sweet is not the
summoning itself surprising enough. It's that unlike in BBB he doesn't
tell Giles what he's done.
Think about it, doing a spell, risky, stupid, sure, but it's not evil,
just something that he should know better than to do. But the fact that
he knows what's going on, or at least has a pretty big clue about it
and doesn't try and tell the others what he's done. Now that's his
mistake and the thing that should have come back to bite him. And it
doesn't.
He might not have been able to stop those deaths, but he doesn't even
try and prevent other deaths by letting the others know where to look
for answers.
And that's where it gets problematic for the character, because we
expect better from him.
Lore
Elisi
>
> I don't know, my main problem with Xander summoning Sweet is not the
> summoning itself surprising enough. It's that unlike in BBB he doesn't
> tell Giles what he's done.
>
> Think about it, doing a spell, risky, stupid, sure, but it's not evil,
> just something that he should know better than to do. But the fact that
> he knows what's going on, or at least has a pretty big clue about it
> and doesn't try and tell the others what he's done. Now that's his
> mistake and the thing that should have come back to bite him. And it
> doesn't.
>
> He might not have been able to stop those deaths, but he doesn't even
> try and prevent other deaths by letting the others know where to look
> for answers.
>
> And that's where it gets problematic for the character, because we
> expect better from him.
>
> Lore
Well... in B, B &B he went to Giles because he could see that things
were getting dangerously out of hand. Also he was 16/17 and it's a lot
easier to own up to doing stupid stuff when no one expects any
better... it's a heck of a lot harder to admit that you're doing
something wrong when you're a grown up.
And they're not sure about the deaths at all:
XANDER: Okay, but we're sure that the things are related: the singing
and dancing, and burning and dying.
GILES: We're not sure of much.
I think Xander is just hoping that Buffy will kill the demon and no one
will ask awkward questions.
burt...@hotmail.com
> burt...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > But, Joss decided that Buffy's life had to suck this season, and so she
> > had to be abandoned, regardless of the damage done to Giles's
> > character.
>
> Well, LOL, agreement didn't last too long, huh? I can't agree the Joss
> decided Buffy's life had to suck just _this_ season. Joss decided
> Buffy's life had to suck pretty much in all seasons. Believe me,
> nothing, but nothing, could be as painful as a 16 year old
> deeply-in-love virginal girl waking up after making love for the first
> time to... Angelus. Nor, having to kill the 'man' she loves. Nothing
> beats that.
Rira vs gung'f gehr (naq V'z abg pbaivaprq vg jnf cbegenlrq gung jnl ba
gur fubj), obgu gubfr guvatf jrer qrnyg jvgu jvgubhg qenttvat Ohssl'f
zvfrel ba sbe na ragver frnfba, hayvxr jung unccrarq va frnfba 6.