AOQ Review 1-5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season One, Episode 5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
(or "whatever")
Writers: Dean Batali and Rob Des Hostel
Director: David Semel
Since BTVS devotes so much time compared to other teen superhero
stories to said hero's attempts to have a life outside of her night
job, it's logical to do an episode like "Never Kill A Boy On The First
Date." And the wordy episode title makes me happy (I like that sort of
thing). Most of the show comes down to the rather amusing fact that
the vampires just aren't coopertive enough to let Buffy have one night
to go out on a date. The inevitable friction this causes between
Slayer and Watcher is the best part of NKABOTFD, and gives the show
some of its best lines. (My favorite exchange? Don't remember the
exact lines, but it's when Giles "volunteers" to go back in time to
tell the prophecy-writers to push things back a week, and Buffy accuses
him of abusing sarcasm.) Giles never comes across as unsympathetic to
her plight, he just has a very clear notion of where the priorities
lie. (Actually, the crisis at the end comes about basically because
he's too accomodating.) It's interesting to note that the episode
basically ends up bearing out his concerns; however hip or capable or
self-sufficient older teens think they are, sometimes the Authority
Figures really do know what's best.
To give us a love interest for the episode, our hero ignores the
various guys who've gotten obsessed with her over the course of the
first few episodes and ends up having her first (seen) kiss with a guy
named Owen. This new character is someone I don't quite get. He likes
dancing and partying one minute, then in another scene he's an academic
nerd with no apparent social skills who spends his time reading poetry,
except when he's more of a Chess Club Geek who effortlessly works nods
to _Soylent Green_ into everyday conversation. I don't get it, and
I'll go out on a limb and say the writers don't either. Also, I don't
know where the writers went to high school, but 'round my parts, good
looks aren't enough to make one desirable. Very few people can pull
off "brooding and mysterious;" it ends up looking more like "antisocial
and creepy." I don't see why Cordelia bothers with someone so alien to
her as Owen, why she's suddenly pursuing him so intensively despite
their having presumably been in school together for years, and why he
tolerates her when he's so annoyed by vapid chicks. Maybe if Cordelia
had some particular grudge against Buffy it might make more sense for
her to go after the same guy. Thus far she's just been a general bitch
who doesn't actually have anything to do with our core show (which
makes sense; if she caught BTVS on TV, she'd find it boring) except for
when the plot decides to shoehorn her in.
Beyond that, well, there's not much to talk about. Unless you count
the Anointed One storyline which begins here... in which case there's
still not a whole lot to talk about. The only thing really worth
mentioning is that I liked the schizophrenic vampire, and it'd be scary
if more people with mental illnesses weren't harmless. And given the
amount of screen-time he got, that's all the page-time he gets. Anyone
out there _not_ realize when he died (or earlier) that he wasn't
Anointed? Much like the episode as a whole, this is all handled
competently, but not in a particularly interesting manner. Where the
previous episode ("Teacher's Pet") was just okay because the quality of
individual scenes was all over the place, this one is just okay because
it maintains a consistent level of quality throughout, never rising
above "pleasantly bland." Your plot is okay but nothing special, your
character interactions are okay but nothing special, and your action
sequence at the end is entertaining but nothing you'll remember fondly
in five years or anything.
Speaking of not interesting, there's a worrisome sign here. One
constant that BTVS has had from day one is that however trite the plot
and even the characters might become, the dialogue has that Whedon
spark that keeps things entertaining. When conversations start to
become predictable, it's a major blow to what made the show intriguing.
Much of "First Date" is still okay in that regard, but a few
Buffy/Owen scenes suffered. By far the most noticeable example of
stale dialogue was the exchange between Xander and Willow at Buffy's
house in which I could literally predict exactly what would be said,
including the alleged jokes (they're both worried and feel like they
should "go along," but they're talking about different things!
Hilarity!). To say the least, this doesn't bode well.
I like the conceit of using one scene as a microcosm for a show, and
for "First Date," that scene would be the five-person Bronze meeting
(with Angel and Owen). Lots of people not understanding each other.
Lots of awkwardness which makes sense under the circumstances but is
taken to excess, both in terms of what the audience can tolerate and in
terms of what the characters can be expected to accept. Mildly
intriguing but ultimately not going anywhere very interesting.
[I did like Angel's deadpan (well, does he ever not deadpan?) "work"
when asked where he knows Buffy from.]
The ending does a few good things, in addition to the aforementioned
Buffy/Giles scene. Owen breaks the mold of SHS students by actually
proving fairly capable in a fight, for a non-Slayer. Does that mean a
major role for him (I feel like I saw his name occasionally in my
scrolling-past-BTVS-info years...)? Well, not at the moment, since
Buffy lets him down as gently as she can. And regardless of what she
might say, it's not her, it's him. Someone who gets excited by the
idea of starting fights in bars isn't someone who can be trusted to be
part of a Slayer's life. As with government, those who most want to be
action heroes are those least suited to do so. So the whole final act
basically reminds me of the great series _Buffy_ could be, if it
weren't busy being merely acceptable like it's been these last few
episodes.
And I have nothing else to say about this show. It held my interest,
but it doesn't really merit any more attention.
So....
One-sentence summary: Seriously, whatever.
AOQ rating: Decent
[Season One ratings so far:
1) "Welcome To The Hellmouth" - Good
2) "The Harvest" - Decent
3) "Witch" - Excellent
4) "Teacher's Pet" - Decent
5) "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date" - Decent]
MBangel10 (Melissa)
forever and I agree with your summary. Nothing too great. I remember
when I first started watching Buffy in S1, I was on and off about it.
However, S2 is what really hooked me. The first season you just get to
know the characters and it sets up the show... the following seasons
will give you the good stuff.
Also, I wanted to mention how cool it is you're posting your thoughts as
you watch each episode for the first time. It's fun to follow along.
kenm47
life while also living up to her Slayer obligations was palpable and
important. Giles begrudging willingness to deal is also important. If
you had seen the movie and the WB trailer that preceded WttH you might
get more of a feeling as to how different Buffy is from the Slayers
that went before that seemed to have no existence other than as Slayer
and dying young.
The episode also breaks the homage mold, as there is no real corollary
horror movie that comes to mind, as the The Anointed One arc gets
started. And maybe what you're sensing is it's not self-contained, but
really the start of a story that you don't know how or when it will
end. I think at this point in 1997 I was saying to myself, I wonder if
this show gets cancelled will they finish this particular story.
Owen was one of the kinds of guy a Xander can never figure out either.
If they're not bad boys with cars or motorcycles, then the girls the
nice guys fantasized about go for the physically large (perhaps if
Xander was a tad smaller himself that would have been more obvious).
The good thing about Owen's size iis he actually makes Angel look
younger in their scene together. Buffy also has a bit of a rude
awakening with Owen's desire to hang for the danger, which wasn't what
she was looking for.
Besides, the episode was almost worth the price of admission just for
the shot of Xander's watch.
FWIW, at the time I had no idea where they were going with The Anointed
One. The kid was a small surprise to me.
I still think the ep is no worse than a 3.5 out of 5.
Ken (Brooklyn)
kenm47
as
you watch each episode for the first time. It's fun to follow along."
Agreed. Thanks for an excuse to watch these eps again.
Ken (Brooklyn)
Shuggie
> To give us a love interest for the episode, our hero ignores the
> various guys who've gotten obsessed with her over the course of the
> first few episodes and ends up having her first (seen) kiss with a guy
> named Owen. This new character is someone I don't quite get. He likes
> dancing and partying one minute, then in another scene he's an academic
> nerd with no apparent social skills who spends his time reading poetry,
I think the fact that he goes to the Bronze is evidence that he wants to
see Buffy not that he like dancing and partying per se. I also think he
evidently does have social skills but prefers to spend time alone
reading. There are plenty of people like that.
> except when he's more of a Chess Club Geek who effortlessly works nods
> to _Soylent Green_ into everyday conversation.
That goes back to our discussions of Buffy-speak. Characters will work
various pop culture references into their dialogue. It's something that
happens with everyone so it's less an indication of an individual
character's personality than you might think.
> I don't get it, and
> I'll go out on a limb and say the writers don't either. Also, I don't
> know where the writers went to high school, but 'round my parts, good
> looks aren't enough to make one desirable. Very few people can pull
> off "brooding and mysterious;" it ends up looking more like "antisocial
> and creepy."
But the question (for me at least) is not whether anyone at your high
school achieved it, it's whether the character as portrayed achieves it.
> Anyone
> out there _not_ realize when he died (or earlier) that he wasn't
> Anointed?
Can't remember but there's a good chance I was taken in. I often don't
spot that kind of twist.
> Speaking of not interesting, there's a worrisome sign here. One
> constant that BTVS has had from day one is that however trite the plot
> and even the characters might become, the dialogue has that Whedon
> spark that keeps things entertaining.
I find it slightly amusing that after watching only 5 episodes you can
use a phrase like 'one constant from day one'. Having said that I agree
that funny dialogue is one of the joys of the show and is often
something to enjoy in a weaker episode.
> When conversations start to
> become predictable, it's a major blow to what made the show intriguing.
> Much of "First Date" is still okay in that regard, but a few
> Buffy/Owen scenes suffered. By far the most noticeable example of
> stale dialogue was the exchange between Xander and Willow at Buffy's
> house in which I could literally predict exactly what would be said,
> including the alleged jokes (they're both worried and feel like they
> should "go along," but they're talking about different things!
> Hilarity!). To say the least, this doesn't bode well.
>
Well it's not a spoiler to say that there's plenty more witty fun
dialogue to come.
> I like the conceit of using one scene as a microcosm for a show, and
> for "First Date," that scene would be the five-person Bronze meeting
> (with Angel and Owen). Lots of people not understanding each other.
> Lots of awkwardness which makes sense under the circumstances but is
> taken to excess, both in terms of what the audience can tolerate and in
> terms of what the characters can be expected to accept. Mildly
> intriguing but ultimately not going anywhere very interesting.
>
I'd never thought of it like that, probably because 'lots of people
miunderstanding each other, lots of awkwardness' is not the essence
ofwhat I think of when I think of the show.I can think of a single line
of dialogue that's like a microcosm of the show but that's from season
3.
> One-sentence summary: Seriously, whatever.
>
> AOQ rating: Decent
>
>
> [Season One ratings so far:
> 1) "Welcome To The Hellmouth" - Good
> 2) "The Harvest" - Decent
> 3) "Witch" - Excellent
> 4) "Teacher's Pet" - Decent
> 5) "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date" - Decent]
>
I'm really curious to see what you make of epispde 6. I predict you'll
either love it or hate it, probably the later.
--
Shuggie
Daniel Damouth
news:1136951700.1...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these
> review threads.
Hoping this isn't a spoiler, I'll say I have always considered NKABOTFD
to be one of the worst and most useless episodes of the entire run. I
agree with most of your comments.
That said, it has one of my favorite tiny moments, which is when Xander
is piling up stuff behind a door to stop the vampires, and he seriously
decides to put a lamp shade on top for good measure. I'm sure most
people didn't really notice this. Keep watching and you will be
rewarded.
[...]
> And I have nothing else to say about this show. It held my
> interest, but it doesn't really merit any more attention.
Just so. Please keep watching and reviewing.
-Dan Damouth
Rob Mason
"kenm47" <ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1136955496.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hear Hear me too
Carlos Moreno
Tsk tsk tsk .... Shame, shame, shame on you Ken... Like we need an
excuse to watch the episodes again (and again, and again.... and
then, again...) Pfftt !!!!
;-)
Carlos
--
kenm47
excuse to watch the episodes again (and again, and again.... and
then, again...) Pfftt !!!!<<<<<<<
"Just when I thought that I was out they pull me back in."
Ken (Brooklyn)
Arbitrar Of Quality
> > I like the conceit of using one scene as a microcosm for a show, and
> > for "First Date," that scene would be the five-person Bronze meeting
> > (with Angel and Owen). Lots of people not understanding each other.
> > Lots of awkwardness which makes sense under the circumstances but is
> > taken to excess, both in terms of what the audience can tolerate and in
> > terms of what the characters can be expected to accept. Mildly
> > intriguing but ultimately not going anywhere very interesting.
> >
>
> I'd never thought of it like that, probably because 'lots of people
> miunderstanding each other, lots of awkwardness' is not the essence
> ofwhat I think of when I think of the show.I can think of a single line
> of dialogue that's like a microcosm of the show but that's from season
> 3.
Just to clarify, "show" as used in the quoted paragraph refers to
NKABOTFD, not the series as a whole.
> I'm really curious to see what you make of epispde 6. I predict you'll
> either love it or hate it, probably the later.
Well, I'll watch it either tonight or tomorrow, so we shall see.
-AOQ
William George Ferguson
<tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>threads.
>
>
>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>Season One, Episode 5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
>(or "whatever")
>Writers: Dean Batali and Rob Des Hostel
>Director: David Semel
>
>Since BTVS devotes so much time compared to other teen superhero
>stories to said hero's attempts to have a life outside of her night
>job, it's logical to do an episode like "Never Kill A Boy On The First
>Date." And the wordy episode title makes me happy (I like that sort of
>thing). Most of the show comes down to the rather amusing fact that
>the vampires just aren't coopertive enough to let Buffy have one night
>to go out on a date. The inevitable friction this causes between
>Slayer and Watcher is the best part of NKABOTFD, and gives the show
>some of its best lines. (My favorite exchange? Don't remember the
>exact lines, but it's when Giles "volunteers" to go back in time to
>tell the prophecy-writers to push things back a week, and Buffy accuses
>him of abusing sarcasm.)
"Now you're abusing sarcasm" is pretty far up the list of often repeated
Buffyisms.
There's another one way up the list from this ep, which I'll get to
below.
>To give us a love interest for the episode, our hero ignores the
>various guys who've gotten obsessed with her over the course of the
>first few episodes and ends up having her first (seen) kiss with a guy
>named Owen. This new character is someone I don't quite get. He likes
>dancing and partying one minute, then in another scene he's an academic
>nerd with no apparent social skills who spends his time reading poetry,
>except when he's more of a Chess Club Geek who effortlessly works nods
>to _Soylent Green_ into everyday conversation. I don't get it, and
>I'll go out on a limb and say the writers don't either. Also, I don't
>know where the writers went to high school, but 'round my parts, good
>looks aren't enough to make one desirable. Very few people can pull
>off "brooding and mysterious;" it ends up looking more like "antisocial
>and creepy." I don't see why Cordelia bothers with someone so alien to
>her as Owen, why she's suddenly pursuing him so intensively despite
>their having presumably been in school together for years, and why he
>tolerates her when he's so annoyed by vapid chicks. Maybe if Cordelia
>had some particular grudge against Buffy it might make more sense for
>her to go after the same guy. Thus far she's just been a general bitch
>who doesn't actually have anything to do with our core show (which
>makes sense; if she caught BTVS on TV, she'd find it boring) except for
>when the plot decides to shoehorn her in.
The 'some particular grudge against Buffy' actually starts in this ep, in
the scene at the Bronze. Cordy has fixated on Owen, primarily because he
is seen as 'desirable' (as you figured out, they were going for 'brooding
and mysterious' with him, whether or not they succeeded) and because he
isn't jumping when she twirls the carrot. He blows her off, not
unpolitely, for Buffy. Fine, she can have her pick of even more
desirable men. Enter Angel, and the second 'high up the list of most
quoted' lines, "Hello, Salty Goodness." Angel brushes right past her to
get to Buffy, the outcast. Instant dating grudge.
>Speaking of not interesting, there's a worrisome sign here. One
>constant that BTVS has had from day one is that however trite the plot
>and even the characters might become, the dialogue has that Whedon
>spark that keeps things entertaining. When conversations start to
>become predictable, it's a major blow to what made the show intriguing.
> Much of "First Date" is still okay in that regard, but a few
>Buffy/Owen scenes suffered. By far the most noticeable example of
>stale dialogue was the exchange between Xander and Willow at Buffy's
>house in which I could literally predict exactly what would be said,
>including the alleged jokes (they're both worried and feel like they
>should "go along," but they're talking about different things!
>Hilarity!). To say the least, this doesn't bode well.
It gets better, and worse. Even NKABOTFD, which is not the best episode
for great dialogue has some real keepers (you mentioned one, I mentioned
another, and there are a few more), but there are eps where you spend the
next day just walking around quoting different lines from it. To be
fair, this wasn't one of them.
>[I did like Angel's deadpan (well, does he ever not deadpan?) "work"
>when asked where he knows Buffy from.]
David Boreanaz incorporated a lot of humor in Angel from the beginning,
but it's a very deadpan humor, and is often other people playing off him,
which has led to a lot of people talking about his 'wooden' acting.
>The ending does a few good things, in addition to the aforementioned
>Buffy/Giles scene. Owen breaks the mold of SHS students by actually
>proving fairly capable in a fight, for a non-Slayer. Does that mean a
>major role for him (I feel like I saw his name occasionally in my
>scrolling-past-BTVS-info years...)? Well, not at the moment, since
>Buffy lets him down as gently as she can. And regardless of what she
>might say, it's not her, it's him. Someone who gets excited by the
>idea of starting fights in bars isn't someone who can be trusted to be
>part of a Slayer's life.
Yes, she wants to date a cool guy who is into cool things, art,
literature, pop culture, and she gets an adrenaline junkie, the last
thing she wants or needs.
--
HERBERT
1996 - 1997
Beloved Mascot
Delightful Meal
He fed the Pack
A little
kenm47
literature, pop culture, and she gets an adrenaline junkie, the last
thing she wants or needs. "
Well, the last thing she then thinks she wants or needs in her naive
desire to keep Slayer compartmentalized and separate from her "normal"
life.
Ken (Brooklyn)
Carlos Moreno
> "Now you're abusing sarcasm" is pretty far up the list of often repeated
> Buffyisms.
Wasn't that "at this point, you're abusing sarcasm"?
Carlos
--
Shuggie
>
>> > I like the conceit of using one scene as a microcosm for a show, and
>> > for "First Date," that scene would be the five-person Bronze meeting
>> > (with Angel and Owen). Lots of people not understanding each other.
>> > Lots of awkwardness which makes sense under the circumstances but is
>> > taken to excess, both in terms of what the audience can tolerate and in
>> > terms of what the characters can be expected to accept. Mildly
>> > intriguing but ultimately not going anywhere very interesting.
>> >
>>
>> I'd never thought of it like that, probably because 'lots of people
>> miunderstanding each other, lots of awkwardness' is not the essence
>> ofwhat I think of when I think of the show.I can think of a single line
>> of dialogue that's like a microcosm of the show but that's from season
>> 3.
>
> Just to clarify, "show" as used in the quoted paragraph refers to
> NKABOTFD, not the series as a whole.
>
Ah. Fair enough. In which case, good observation.
MBB
news:mkjas1dtp8eimipmr...@4ax.com:
> On 10 Jan 2006 19:55:00 -0800, "Arbitrar Of Quality"
> <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
>>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>Season One, Episode 5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
>>(or "whatever")
>>
> "Now you're abusing sarcasm" is pretty far up the list of often repeated
> Buffyisms.
>
> There's another one way up the list from this ep, which I'll get to
> below.
>
> > ...
> >...
>
> The 'some particular grudge against Buffy' actually starts in this ep, in
> the scene at the Bronze. Cordy has fixated on Owen, primarily because he
> is seen as 'desirable' (as you figured out, they were going for 'brooding
> and mysterious' with him, whether or not they succeeded) and because he
> isn't jumping when she twirls the carrot. He blows her off, not
> unpolitely, for Buffy. Fine, she can have her pick of even more
> desirable men. Enter Angel, and the second 'high up the list of most
> quoted' lines, "Hello, Salty Goodness." Angel brushes right past her to
> get to Buffy, the outcast. Instant dating grudge.
> ....
>
Yes, that line is pretty popular :-)
But I personally prefer her other line in that dialogue: "call 9-11, that
boy is going to need some oxigine' (keep in mind, it will make sense a few
episodes further.)
--
+0==)]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
<MBB>-
kenm47
your comments on 1-6 The Pack, and 1-7 Angel, etc.
DVD glitch?
Ken (Brooklyn)
Arbitrar Of Quality
Well, I do have a day job and stuff (also, at the moment, a broken home
computer). I don't think 3-5 days between comments is too egregious.
Seen up to 1-6 so far, review when I get around to it.
-AOQ
kenm47
home
computer). I don't think 3-5 days between comments is too egregious."
Neither do I. Next time I'll try to remember the Friendly Banter
emoticon. Sorry.
Ken (Brooklyn)
Arbitrar Of Quality
Seems like my banter emoticon is the one that's not working; yours was
fine.
-AOQ
reld...@usa.net
--So very, very true! That's why I'm so eager for AOQ to get to the
season 2 reviews. Season 1 just isn't worth such a big writing effort
IMO.
> Also, I wanted to mention how cool it is you're posting your thoughts as
> you watch each episode for the first time. It's fun to follow along.
--Yes, it is fun, even on season 1 reviews . . . but I'm still
impatient to read what AOQ says about the later seasons.
Clairel
kenm47
these particular threads for ANYTHING the OP hasn't yet seen, as the OP
has requested.
I know it's hard to avoid ANY kinds of spoilers, but I think it
courteous for us to try.
Ken (Brooklyn)
reld...@usa.net
--I agree. However, I did not add anything to the information already
given in the post to which I was replying (a post by "MBangel10,"
a.k.a. Melissa). Perhaps you should be reprimanding her.
I don't see how agreeing with something that has already been said does
any more harm than has already been done. But how much harm was
actually done? Knowing that some viewers are more interested in
reading about season 2 and onward, than in reading about season 1,
doesn't actually give any information of substance. It's not like
saying "Such-and-such happens to this or that character."
The fact is, I really am eager for AOQ to get on to the season 2
reviews, and evidently I'm not the only one who feels that way. But
I'm sure AOQ won't be unduly influenced by this fact. He has his own
perceptions and his own opinions.
Clairel