A Second Look: BTVS S6D2
Arbitrar Of Quality
They're like a nightmare about a plague.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 4: "Life Serial"
Writers: David Fury and Jane Espenson
Director: Nick Marck
Another mostly-light episode with its place in the story, like
"Flooded." It gives the season a weird shape to have a fair amount of
comedy clustered into discrete nodes. I find myself with the same
slightly unpleasant feeling of enjoying myself, but having to make a
willful effort to ignore some of the leaps in story logic that lead to
everyone and everything letting Buffy down. Fortunately, with the
exception of the prole-hating second act, I'm also left with the
pleasant feeling of smiling a lot. The nerds and their magic bone
stole the show this time for me, as did Buffy's various reactions to
the pitiful attempt at a wild drunken night, whereas last time I
focused more on how quickly the time-shifting at school ramps up and
on the craftsmanship behind the whole mummy's paw sequence. It's like
a variety show, where anyone with taste is bound to like something.
This is not one where I would have guessed how quickly it was slapped
together. So, are we ever going to find out which writer wrote what
parts?
Rating: Good
Season Six, Episode 5: "All The Way"
Writer: Steven S. DeKnight
Director: David Solomon
Like apparently many viewers, my brother had developed an age-
inappropriate fixation on Michelle Trachtenberg as Dawn by this
point. He felt that he was surprisingly affected by her desperation
to make a connection in this episode, and her being forced to kill her
first kiss. The show has the task of bringing out the serious side of
what's going to be nowhere near as dramatic (either to the characters
or the viewer) as Buffy's analogous choice, and it does, but the
episode certainly feels "minor" as a result. Some really cool
dustings, though, especially from Action!Giles. Dawn will need to be
saved from danger she gets herself into many more times this year, but
on this occasion it makes some sense. You know what stuck with me the
most in between last viewing and this one? The poor crazy old guy who
gets killed. The other thing I always remembered most vividly about
this one is, of course, the creepy closing image, which, yes, is
totally something Willow would do. It seems to be a heavy ending to
an episode that hasn't built it up, but I actually kinda like the
unusual structure - ATW's Scoobies plot thread starts as a party
centered around Xander and Anya, and it only gradually reveals its
purpose when something that happens in passing leads Tara and Willow
to start talking about some ongoing concerns. That's the way things
happen sometimes. The downside is that this episode has been
criticized for being a hodgepodge of random stuff, which it kinda is,
but the assorted crap collectively balances action, comedy, and
weightiness in about the right BTVS-ish proportions. Oh, let me
retrospectively toss some extra credit to Mrs. Quality; if you
remember, she noticed the show's use of drug metaphors a month before
it started making them more obvious.
Rating: Good
Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Joss Whedon
Back when I was a _Star Trek_ fan, my opinions changed about the movie
_Star Trek IV: The One With The Whales_. Specifically, the deeper I
got fanatically enmeshed in the franchise, the more the movie bothered
me. The cavalier attitude towards the possibility of time travel, the
total lack of worry about altering history, the crew making plainly
20th-century pop-culture references... all of it seemed more and more un-
Trek-like, and as a die-hard, it became harder and harder to ignore
these misgivings and smile. Then as I discovered other things in the
world, and the integrity of the ST franchise seemed like less of a big
deal, I re-discovered my ability to enjoy STIV, a funny and generally
engaging film. Well, where STIV had Scotty peddling technological
discoveries on the grounds of "hey, how do we know he doesn't invent
it?" OMWF has Xander being the one responsible for the spell. Not
only that, but he continues to hide his involvement after people start
dropping dead. Remember the part where Xander had seemingly learned
his lesson long ago about this kind of magic... and even more
importantly, remember the part where our heroes tend to feel a smidgen
of guilt when they're complicit in the murder of innocent people? On
one hand, it's a minor aspect of the story being told, something
thrown in at the end. On the other, if one is to take the Buffyverse
seriously, that would include this, and it's a major cloud that hangs
over not only the episode but the rest of the series in which it's
basically forgotten.
I don't take TV as seriously as I once did. I tend to be in the mind-
frame where ten seconds of TV, no matter how awful, are very rarely
enough to negate nearly an hour of brilliance. And "Once More, With
Feeling" may not be unadulterated plasma brilliance, but it is really
good. It succeeds strictly on musical grounds - those songs are damn
catchy, and nicely diverse in style. And it succeeds equally well as
a piece of Buffyverse drama, the moment when all the secrets explode.
We all pretty much know how impressive an accomplishment it is without
me (or anyone) needing to put it into words. So, just three
highlights for this time since I emphasized different things last
time: first, the Tara/Giles duet is exquisitely written from a musical
standpoint as these separate stories intersect in one song (and the
change in meaning of the "Under Your Spell" lyrics is of course spot
on). Second is another group moment, the climax of "Walk Through The
Fire:" although Joss thinks the song should have had more kick, the
final chorus is perfect for its context. Third, I love Sweet's
gloating departure as he leaves the cast a changed group, shaken and
emotionally battered: "See you all in heeeeelllll!"
Meanwhile, in a new development, the episode begins with Buffy
swearing she'd never have anything to do romantically with Spike, and
ends with them together.
Rating: Excellent
Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
Director: David Grossman
TR is a lot of fun. I'm generally resistant to analyzing the middle
of the episode too heavily; it's one of those that's most enjoyable to
sit back and watch. And I really don't believe that we're supposed to
take "revelations" during the amnesia stage too seriously (Giles and
Anya don't secretly have a burning desire to settle down together or
anything like that), beyond taking whatever "base" personalities exist
and throwing them together in interesting ways. One thing that did
stick with me from people's comments last time through is the value of
that middle portion for the characters as a respite from the bleakness
of the frame story - most obviously, of course, in the way Buffy gets
to enjoy being a superhero again. Of course, when you step out of the
nice dream and have the real world come rushing back in, well...
So, good times... despite being marred by another of the big-ass nagging
things that dampens my enjoyment of the season - Giles's departure, of
course. I'll talk about it in the general comments rather than here,
I think, but I hate it, and most of my "blame" gets apportioned to
"Tabula Rasa." OMWF had him coming to his "understanding," but also
had him backing out when he realized how much Buffy needed him. This
is also Tara's apparent departure from the group, although unlike
Ripper, she actually only misses a few more episodes before her
untimely death by angry nerd. It's a step that she needed to take,
confronting Willow this way, and no matter how sad the breakup may be,
I've never felt the slightest doubt that the character was in a better
place after TR than before. That's even though in a way she fails to
talk her girlfriend down from the ~edge of madness!!~, but Willow's
close to being beyond help at this point. I've never felt so
disappointed (disappointed at Willow, not at the show) in a character
as in the moment in which she magically gets dressed - doesn't she
know that there's a viewing audience clamoring for more towel-clad
scenes? Oh yeah, and also because that's the moment that shows how
irrevocably locked she is in her "fixing" mindset. My brother
comments that this may be the saddest of all the series's many mopey
ending montages, and I think it's a strong candidate.
Meanwhile, in a new development, the episode begins with Buffy
swearing she'd never have anything to do romantically with Spike, and
ends with them together.
Rating: Good
Additional comments on S6D2: I intend to try to get a lot of mileage
out of that "meanwhile, in a new development" bit. That's actually my
biggest problem with the B/S relationship, but that bit of bitching
can be saved for next disc.
Besides, the treatment of Giles is a much more significant complaint
for me. I've never felt that the show's willful desire to destroy the
character's integrity in its last two seasons served it very well, but
this is kinda beyond the pale. And I'm still not sure whether or not
the writers realize it, but either way, it bothers me. One more
repetition, to keep things in perspective: Buffy is nineteen years
old. She's saved the world many times over, and as a result is
currently suffering from an extreme case of post-heeeaven stress
disorder. She effectively has no living parents, no source of income
(and little time for work, given her night job), and a sister to
support. Giles, with no advance warning, abandons her completely when
she needs him most, financially, professionally, and emotionally.
What a complete dick. It doesn't feel like an organic in-character
development. That's keeping in mind that the show has taken plenty of
time to show us his ridiculous notion that he's getting in her way,
her tendency to avoid certain responsibilities entirely when she can
dump them on him, his strong discomfort with the idea of being a
father figure, and the fact that this NG discussion has touched on
this whole topic several times. I still don't come anywhere near
buying it.
That's a lot of big clouds hanging over a season I claim to love so
much, huh? But notice that even those things aren't enough to lower
my episode-by-episode ratings much, because these are some tasty
episodes. Fortunately, I don't think I have any more issues of such
magnitude outside of "Hell's Bells," so pretty much schmoove shailing
from here for me (not, however, for many others, it would seem)...
Tara's mention of watching _Spongebob Squarepants_ with Willow has
apparently led some to conclude that this is a character who spends
quite a bit of quality time ingesting a certain herb of a non-magical
variety.
Thoughts?
-AOQ
One Bit Shy
news:68087f11-eceb-4976...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> One more
> repetition, to keep things in perspective: Buffy is nineteen years
> old.
I'm pretty sure she's twenty at this point. I don't think that alters you
point at all, but the thought interrupted the flow.
OBS
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
i was willing to forgive dawns walkabouts to danger in season five
as a side effect of being the key and object of a gods desire
but by this time i was getting real tired of stupid dawn stories
im glad the let her get intelligent in the next season
> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> dropping dead. Remember the part where Xander had seemingly learned
> his lesson long ago about this kind of magic... and even more
as subsequently mentioned in season seven
yes indeed xander was responsible
allowing a lame joke about xander becoming a queen
i dont think xander connected the music to the human combustion
until near the end of episode
> Meanwhile, in a new development, the episode begins with Buffy
> swearing she'd never have anything to do romantically with Spike, and
> ends with them together.
the song at the end is how the show ends with the big number
the big kiss and the closing curtain
so the show ends with the big number the bif kiss and the closing curtain
> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
> take "revelations" during the amnesia stage too seriously (Giles and
> Anya don't secretly have a burning desire to settle down together or
> anything like that), beyond taking whatever "base" personalities exist
even amnesia giles and anya still end up fighting
> of the frame story - most obviously, of course, in the way Buffy gets
> to enjoy being a superhero again. Of course, when you step out of the
> nice dream and have the real world come rushing back in, well...
it was nice to see joan all happy
then you see the memory of what she had lost hit
in therapy there are some attempts to get patients to feel various emotions
so they know they still have the mental machinery to feel
it is merely currently unavailable
and thats what happened here
they establish buffy is not come back wrong or permanently damaged
she is merely going through a hard spell
and theres the possibility she can heal
and she can once again be proactive with pep
> Besides, the treatment of Giles is a much more significant complaint
> for me. I've never felt that the show's willful desire to destroy the
unfortunately reality sometimes intrudes on the fiction
tony head was going home to england and would not be available
at reasonable production costs
they had to incorporate that into his character
however inappropriate it was
at best they couldve come up with another excuse
arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
John Briggs
No, she doesn't turn twenty until January - somewhere between "Gone" and
"Doublemeat Palace".
--
John Briggs
mmi...@erols.com
> A reminder: These threads are a nightmare. They're a plague.
> They're like a nightmare about a plague.
>
>
> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
>OMWF has Xander being the one responsible for the spell. Not
> only that, but he continues to hide his involvement after people start
> dropping dead.
My thought was that he simply didn't realize he was responsible until
Sweet mentioned the amulet. Perhaps not realizing was a side-effect
of the spell, or perhaps Xander was just being unusually dense.
(Giles and "Tabula Rasa")
> Besides, the treatment of Giles is a much more significant complaint
> for me. I've never felt that the show's willful desire to destroy the
> character's integrity in its last two seasons served it very well, but
> this is kinda beyond the pale. And I'm still not sure whether or not
> the writers realize it, but either way, it bothers me. One more
> repetition, to keep things in perspective: Buffy is nineteen years
> old. She's saved the world many times over, and as a result is
> currently suffering from an extreme case of post-heeeaven stress
> disorder. She effectively has no living parents, no source of income
> (and little time for work, given her night job), and a sister to
> support. Giles, with no advance warning, abandons her completely when
> she needs him most, financially, professionally, and emotionally.
> What a complete dick. It doesn't feel like an organic in-character
> development. That's keeping in mind that the show has taken plenty of
> time to show us his ridiculous notion that he's getting in her way,
> her tendency to avoid certain responsibilities entirely when she can
> dump them on him, his strong discomfort with the idea of being a
> father figure, and the fact that this NG discussion has touched on
> this whole topic several times. I still don't come anywhere near
> buying it.
Giles' leaving didn't strike me as out of character. Not arguing that
he was right to leave, just that it's understandable that he thought
staying would hurt Buffy more than it would help her. And once having
made that decision, he might think that the only way he would actually
manage to leave was by not giving advance warning.
(Note that when he was planning to leave at the beginning of S5, he
apparently hid the decision from Buffy for months.)
Arbitrar Of Quality
OBS is correct; my math was off. She turned seventeen during S2, and
will turn twenty-one during S6; the celebration, at least, occurs
during "Older And Far Away."
-AOQ
Horace LaBadie
<68087f11-eceb-4976...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: These threads are a nightmare. They're a plague.
> They're like a nightmare about a plague.
SNIP
> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
> OMWF has Xander being the one responsible for the spell. Not
> only that, but he continues to hide his involvement after people start
> dropping dead. Remember the part where Xander had seemingly learned
> his lesson long ago about this kind of magic...
One, musicals follow their own logic, which does not resemble our Earth
logic. Two, why should Xander be unique in learning a lesson the first
time? Did Jonathan? Did Willow? Three, once Xander has made the original
error of invoking Sweet, the logic of musicals is in control of the
characters. He cannot confess until it is the end, when a twist is
required by the musical convention. In any case, it wouldn't have
changed anything had he confessed earlier. People would still have been
controlled by the musical. Sweet would still have wanted the girl with
the amulet.
SNIP
>
> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: David Grossman
>
SNIP
> So, good times... despite being marred by another of the big-ass nagging
> things that dampens my enjoyment of the season - Giles's departure, of
> course. I'll talk about it in the general comments rather than here,
> I think, but I hate it, and most of my "blame" gets apportioned to
> "Tabula Rasa." OMWF had him coming to his "understanding," but also
> had him backing out when he realized how much Buffy needed him. This
> is also Tara's apparent departure from the group, although unlike
> Ripper, she actually only misses a few more episodes before her
> untimely death by angry nerd. It's a step that she needed to take,
> confronting Willow this way, and no matter how sad the breakup may be,
> I've never felt the slightest doubt that the character was in a better
> place after TR than before. That's even though in a way she fails to
> talk her girlfriend down from the ~edge of madness!!~, but Willow's
> close to being beyond help at this point. I've never felt so
> disappointed (disappointed at Willow, not at the show) in a character
> as in the moment in which she magically gets dressed - doesn't she
> know that there's a viewing audience clamoring for more towel-clad
> scenes? Oh yeah, and also because that's the moment that shows how
> irrevocably locked she is in her "fixing" mindset. My brother
> comments that this may be the saddest of all the series's many mopey
> ending montages, and I think it's a strong candidate.
SNIP
>
> Besides, the treatment of Giles is a much more significant complaint
> for me. I've never felt that the show's willful desire to destroy the
> character's integrity in its last two seasons served it very well, but
> this is kinda beyond the pale. And I'm still not sure whether or not
> the writers realize it, but either way, it bothers me. One more
> repetition, to keep things in perspective: Buffy is nineteen years
> old. She's saved the world many times over, and as a result is
> currently suffering from an extreme case of post-heeeaven stress
> disorder. She effectively has no living parents, no source of income
> (and little time for work, given her night job), and a sister to
> support. Giles, with no advance warning, abandons her completely when
> she needs him most, financially, professionally, and emotionally.
> What a complete dick. It doesn't feel like an organic in-character
> development. That's keeping in mind that the show has taken plenty of
> time to show us his ridiculous notion that he's getting in her way,
> her tendency to avoid certain responsibilities entirely when she can
> dump them on him, his strong discomfort with the idea of being a
> father figure, and the fact that this NG discussion has touched on
> this whole topic several times. I still don't come anywhere near
> buying it.
The show doesn't have to persuade the audience that it is right for
Giles to leave, only that Giles is convinced that he should. It does
that. For him there is no easy answer. It shows that, too. In the end,
Buffy and he both switch sides on the matter, so there is no right or
wrong to it. It's hard for both of them, either way.
Jillun
were treating Buffy. Here she is doing her best to not let them in on
her misery and they're doubting her sanity when she tells them strange
and bizarre things are happening to her. I do understand that Xander
can't keep her on the job after the demon attack and one of the men
thinking she punched him, but again... same thing. He doesn't seem to
really believe a demon attack happened. He acts as though she's
making it up. So Buffy retreats to Spike, to all intents and purposes
treating him like a boyfriend "You're supposed to fix all this!" to
paraphrase. I was thinking "Dang, Spike! Here's your chance!" But
getting her drunk and taking her to kitten poker really does show why
he isn't a good choice, despite all the shippers. Going out with her
sober and hunting for the van would have been a better thing.
I wish they'd continued with the buildup of Buffy's gradual slide
towards Spike, but they couldn't. It would have ended up far stronger
a bond than the crippled thing it did. But she was pushed at him by
the spell before she could do it naturally, and Spike being himself
could not wait. *sniffle*
I know, no one likes that Xander was the one to summon Sweet. In a
way, it does fit him. We aren't seeing things from his view as we did
so long ago in that one episode. Here he is, surrounded by tension
and confusion. So, he does a little research on a dancing demon and
makes a foray into the magic world. But whatever else happened, he
was only the trigger. He wasn't the weapon, nor was he in control of
it.
Dawn, trying so hard to be strong and finding herself left to her own
devices too often... Willow, feeling darned strong and smug except
that the woman she loves is frowning at her. So Willow takes steps to
turn that frown upside down. And Giles... ooh, that man needed a good
kick in the behind.
But he is the person who is supposed to train her to fight the
monsters until she dies. He's supposed to be in the background,
directing. Regardless of the years, he wasn't ever trained to be her
father-figure. It's a role he started to slip into. He was wrong to
leave. But he didn't make that decision rationally, however much he
tried to dress it up.
Buffy could have been doing better. And she was trying. Trying to
apply for school again. Trying to work. With Giles' donation and
whatever was left, she was making enough money to stay afloat, I
suppose. Eventually she would have to find the drive to pull out and
do other things. Despite the Slaying night-schedule, she could have
found another job. But we didn't see her look for one, did we? Until
she'd exhausted what her friends had to offer.
Don Sample
<91607456-4dda-44aa...@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
mmi...@erols.com wrote:
> On Dec 12, 8:06 pm, Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> > A reminder: These threads are a nightmare. They're a plague.
> > They're like a nightmare about a plague.
> >
>
> >
> > Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> > Writer: Joss Whedon
> > Director: Joss Whedon
> >
>
> >OMWF has Xander being the one responsible for the spell. Not
> > only that, but he continues to hide his involvement after people start
> > dropping dead.
>
> My thought was that he simply didn't realize he was responsible until
> Sweet mentioned the amulet. Perhaps not realizing was a side-effect
> of the spell, or perhaps Xander was just being unusually dense.
But Xander considers the possibility that there is a connection as soon
as he hears about people burning up.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
mmi...@erols.com
> In article
> <91607456-4dda-44aa-9dee-fe297cbdf...@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> mmik...@erols.com wrote:
> > On Dec 12, 8:06 pm, Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> > > A reminder: These threads are a nightmare. They're a plague.
> > > They're like a nightmare about a plague.
>
> > > Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> > > Writer: Joss Whedon
> > > Director: Joss Whedon
>
> > >OMWF has Xander being the one responsible for the spell. Not
> > > only that, but he continues to hide his involvement after people start
> > > dropping dead.
>
> > My thought was that he simply didn't realize he was responsible until
> > Sweet mentioned the amulet. Perhaps not realizing was a side-effect
> > of the spell, or perhaps Xander was just being unusually dense.
>
> But Xander considers the possibility that there is a connection as soon
> as he hears about people burning up.
But not necessarily the connection between his spell and the burning
up.
Arbitrar Of Quality
anges <mair_fh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> it was nice to see joan all happy
> then you see the memory of what she had lost hit
>
> in therapy there are some attempts to get patients to feel various emotions
> so they know they still have the mental machinery to feel
> it is merely currently unavailable
>
> and thats what happened here
> they establish buffy is not come back wrong or permanently damaged
> she is merely going through a hard spell
> and theres the possibility she can heal
> and she can once again be proactive with pep
Buffy still seems to be worried that she came back wrong, but on any
level that matters, I agree with your take. The season shows the
signs of hope very gradually, and there's an ongoing healing, even if
the worst is also yet to come for Buffy. Showing that the joy still
exists is the first step. The next step is probably "Gone."
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> I remember Life Serial for me as a primary example of how the others
> were treating Buffy. Here she is doing her best to not let them in on
> her misery and they're doubting her sanity when she tells them strange
> and bizarre things are happening to her. I do understand that Xander
> can't keep her on the job after the demon attack and one of the men
> thinking she punched him, but again... same thing. He doesn't seem to
> really believe a demon attack happened. He acts as though she's
> making it up.
I didn't get the impression that he doesn't believe her, just that
it's an everyday occurence for her that's not compatible with his
professional world.
> Buffy could have been doing better. And she was trying. Trying to
> apply for school again. Trying to work. With Giles' donation and
> whatever was left, she was making enough money to stay afloat, I
> suppose. Eventually she would have to find the drive to pull out and
> do other things. Despite the Slaying night-schedule, she could have
> found another job. But we didn't see her look for one, did we? Until
> she'd exhausted what her friends had to offer.
Why is it Buffy's responsibilility to find another job outside of what
her friends can offer? Why can't her absentee dad pay her way through
school? She's more than earned it by virtue of the fact that she
works a full-time job saving the world (a job that doesn't go away no
matter what personal issues she has at the time) and has to try to
finish raising a teenager on top of it. I know this gets into sticky
issues, so it's more of a personal objection. I grant that it doesn't
usually make sense to question why BTVS places such unrelenting
demands on its main character, because that's life, or at least the
part of it that BTVS is all about, but that usually springs from the
background mythology of the series. The consequence of grounding this
part of the series in "real life" issues is that people look for more
realism in your storytelling as a result. That's why I find it less
satisfying here.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
<hwlabadi...@nospam.highstream.net> wrote:
> In article
> <68087f11-eceb-4976-a170-b09541bfc...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> Three, once Xander has made the original
> error of invoking Sweet, the logic of musicals is in control of the
> characters. He cannot confess until it is the end, when a twist is
> required by the musical convention.
The idea that the spell imposes certain "rules of musicals" on
everyone (beyond them you know, singing) is easily the best
rationalization I've heard for why Xander doesn't confess once it
becomes clear that things have gone wrong. Granted, it's an
explanation that can be used to explain almost anything, so one could
be accused of avoiding the issue, but in this case, I'll take it.
Good thinking.
Sure there is. Buffy's right (at least in TR), and Giles is wrong.
-AOQ
mariposas rand mair fheal
> her friends can offer? Why can't her absentee dad pay her way through
why cant the watchers support one slayer alone in all world
Jillun
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Why can't her absentee dad pay her way through
> school?
In this particular sentence, I was referring to Giles, rather than her
actual absentee dad. Just realized how unclear that could be.
-AOQ
Don Sample
<b4f1b5db-5d9b-4ba9...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> Why is it Buffy's responsibilility to find another job outside of what
> her friends can offer? Why can't her absentee dad pay her way through
> school?
As of season 4, he *was* paying for at least part of her education. And
he may have been paying child support for Dawn. It just wasn't enough
to support both of them.
Horace LaBadie
<36be0593-d05f-4dd6...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> > Three, once Xander has made the original
> > error of invoking Sweet, the logic of musicals is in control of the
> > characters. He cannot confess until it is the end, when a twist is
> > required by the musical convention.
>
> The idea that the spell imposes certain "rules of musicals" on
> everyone (beyond them you know, singing) is easily the best
> rationalization I've heard for why Xander doesn't confess once it
> becomes clear that things have gone wrong. Granted, it's an
> explanation that can be used to explain almost anything, so one could
> be accused of avoiding the issue, but in this case, I'll take it.
> Good thinking.
They mention several times that the physical reality in which they
normally exist (the Buffyverse as we usually see it) has been altered to
resemble features of the musical format, but that at the time those
alterations occur, the characters accept them as though they were
natural. It's only after the fact that they realize that the changes
were unnatural. For instance, Anya and Xander talk about how the fourth
wall seemed to be missing from their apartment during the "I'll Never
Tell" number, but it's only later that this strikes them as odd. So it's
not a stretch to think that Sweet's spell extends the conventions of the
musical form to all actions of the characters. Not only are they forced
to spill their emotions and thoughts in song, but they are also
constrained by other rules of the form to make revelations at prescribed
dramatic moments. The structure of the musical dictates where and when
things occur.
One Bit Shy
news:hwlabadiejr-417E...@news.isp.giganews.com...
That's a terrific explanation. I don't buy it. But I really appreciate the
read.
The thing is that even musicals have plots. And the plots - as artificial
as they might be constructed - still work better when they logically hold
together. This is a bit of a hole. Not a bad one. It didn't even occur to
me until I saw it pointed out in this forum. But it's there. Like a little
scratch on the dining room table.
IMO, the problem is that the episode fails to sufficiently separate the
events that occurred from what Xander "thought" he was doing. The idea they
should have been going for is that Xander didn't know his use of the
talisman caused everything until Sweet pointed out the talisman on Dawn's
chest. Xander's actual words make that nigh on impossible to believe.
But, you know, every dining room table has a scratch. And it doesn't really
make it any less grand a piece of furniture.
OBS
Mel
That is the best question. As we see later, the WC is
supporting/training all kinds of potentials. Why should it be so out of
line for them to financially support the *actual* Slayer so she can do
her job without worrying about whether she will have a place to sleep or
food to eat?
Mel
mmi...@erols.com
>
> IMO, the problem is that the episode fails to sufficiently separate the
> events that occurred from what Xander "thought" he was doing. The idea they
> should have been going for is that Xander didn't know his use of the
> talisman caused everything until Sweet pointed out the talisman on Dawn's
> chest.
So Xander's use of the talisman and Sweet have a connection? :-)
Arbitrar Of Quality
> mariposas rand mair fheal wrote:
>
> >>Why is it Buffy's responsibilility to find another job outside of what
> >>her friends can offer? Why can't her absentee dad pay her way through
>
> > why cant the watchers support one slayer alone in all world
>
> supporting/training all kinds of potentials. Why should it be so out of
> line for them to financially support the *actual* Slayer so she can do
> her job without worrying about whether she will have a place to sleep or
> food to eat?
Well, I think that's Giles's job, if necessary; they're certainly
paying him enough. Kendra's example suggests that it may be
traditional to keep a Slayer apart from the world and basically give
them only enough to survive, although that may depend on how young one
is able to snare a Potential. As for the rest of the question,
remember that, as portrayed in the series, the WC are a bunch of
morons.
-AOQ
burt...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> In article
> <68087f11-eceb-4976-a170-b09541bfc...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> > OMWF has Xander being the one responsible for the spell. Not
> > only that, but he continues to hide his involvement after people start
> > dropping dead. Remember the part where Xander had seemingly learned
> > his lesson long ago about this kind of magic...
>
> One, musicals follow their own logic, which does not resemble our Earth
> logic. Two, why should Xander be unique in learning a lesson the first
> time? Did Jonathan? Did Willow? Three, once Xander has made the original
> error of invoking Sweet, the logic of musicals is in control of the
> characters. He cannot confess until it is the end, when a twist is
> required by the musical convention.
That's a fine rationalization, except that Joss has basically admitted
that he pulled the "Xander summoned the demon" ending out of his ass.
If you listen to the DVD commentary for the episode, at the end when
he talks about how he decided who summoned Sweet, he says something
like "Well, someone had to do it, and Xander was unexpected." It's
obvious that he hardly even thought about it.
Apteryx
news:68087f11-eceb-4976...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: These threads are a nightmare. They're a plague.
> They're like a nightmare about a plague.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 4: "Life Serial"
> Writers: David Fury and Jane Espenson
> Director: Nick Marck
>
> Another mostly-light episode with its place in the story, like
> "Flooded." It gives the season a weird shape to have a fair amount of
> comedy clustered into discrete nodes. I find myself with the same
> slightly unpleasant feeling of enjoying myself, but having to make a
> willful effort to ignore some of the leaps in story logic that lead to
> everyone and everything letting Buffy down. Fortunately, with the
> exception of the prole-hating second act, I'm also left with the
> pleasant feeling of smiling a lot. The nerds and their magic bone
> stole the show this time for me, as did Buffy's various reactions to
> the pitiful attempt at a wild drunken night, whereas last time I
> focused more on how quickly the time-shifting at school ramps up and
> on the craftsmanship behind the whole mummy's paw sequence. It's like
> a variety show, where anyone with taste is bound to like something.
> This is not one where I would have guessed how quickly it was slapped
> together. So, are we ever going to find out which writer wrote what
> parts?
> Rating: Good
Definitely Good for me. Granted the plot holes are just too easy to spot
(like if time is running so much slower for Buffy than anyone else in the
first skit, how come no one steals any of her clothes or at least paints a
moustache on her like you'd expect from college students?). The mummy hand
skit is obviously the highlight, and in fact one of the most memorable
incidents of the series. I'm sure you are right that the other skit is
unfair
to construction workers, but then they are comedy construction workers, and
I'm sure the two customers shown in the mummy hand skit are not truly
representative of occult shop customers. It may be only the effect of
watching it after watching (or not watching as the case may be) AtS start to
go down the toilet, but for me LS seemed much funnier on this viewing, and
caused me to raise its rating back to around where it was when I first saw
it. It is my 38th favourite BtVS
episode, 3rd best in season 6 (last year was 61st and 5th).
> Season Six, Episode 5: "All The Way"
> Writer: Steven S. DeKnight
> Director: David Solomon
>
The downside is that this episode has been
> criticized for being a hodgepodge of random stuff, which it kinda is,
> but the assorted crap collectively balances action, comedy, and
> weightiness in about the right BTVS-ish proportions. Oh, let me
> retrospectively toss some extra credit to Mrs. Quality; if you
> remember, she noticed the show's use of drug metaphors a month before
> it started making them more obvious.
> Rating: Good
Definitely a mixed bad. It's not far from Good for me, but not quite there.
It's my 83rd favourite BtVS episode, 11th best in season 6 (last year was
84th and 12th).
I think the achievement of OMWF is all the greater when you look at other TV
series which have been tempted into a musical - something which generally
only happens when schools of sharks are circling, waiting to be jumped. In
contrast what Whedon has achieved here is not only one of the great BtVS
episodes, but one of the great musicals.
He has an advantage in that BtVS at its best is pretty operatic anyway
(sometimes literally so as where Giles walks upstairs to find Jenny's body
to the tune of Puccini's love duet "O Soave Fanciulla" (O Sweet Girl) from
La Boheme). OMWF is more in touch with the spirit of BtVS than many of the
attempts in later seasons to forge a connection with "real life".
My own resolution of the "Xander Conundrum" may be related to those who say
that these things happen in musicals, but I think it is simpler than that -
I just don't care.
For me, this episode is demonstrably Superlative. It is BtVS's contribution
to great television. It is one of only 6 TV episodes to which I give my
highest rating (1.00). The other 5 are the best episodes of 3 Dennis Potter
mini-series (The Singing Detective, Pennies from Heaven, and Lipstick on
Your Collar) and of Monty Python (the episode no one ever expects) and
Fawlty Towers (the final episode, "Basil the Rat"). I rate all 6 episodes of
both The Singing Detective and Pennies From Heaven as better than BtVS's 2nd
best episode (Hush, good as it is), so for me it is on the strength of OMWF
alone that that BtVS rubs shoulders with the very best of television. It is
my favourite BtVS episode (by a widening margin) and hence obviously best in
season 6.
> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: David Grossman
>
> So, good times... despite being marred by another of the big-ass nagging
> things that dampens my enjoyment of the season - Giles's departure, of
> course. I'll talk about it in the general comments rather than here,
> I think, but I hate it, and most of my "blame" gets apportioned to
> "Tabula Rasa."
>
> Rating: Good
A lot of fun things happening in TR (although it had been long enough since
I'd watched it that I forgot my previously acquired wisdom that much of this
episode - and especially things like the "loan shark" - is more fun if
watched after a few drinks. And important season developments as well,
especially Willow going way too far for Tara. I don't find that particularly
convincing. Not that I don't think Willow would be tempted to the dark
side - more that she's smart and should be able to see that the risk/benefit
balance is stacked against her.
But the big downer is of course Giles leaving. The writers were under the
constraint that ASH wanted a break, but even given that they could have done
better than having him opt to leave to get Buffy to stand on her own two
feet - the old standby of a coma would have been better than that.
It's still Good for me, but has lost a handful of points, which in the zone
its in, heavily congested with middling Good season 6 episodes, costs it
several places. It is now my 63rd favourite BtVS episode, 7th best in
season 6 (last year was 56th and 4th).
--
Apteryx
Don Sample
Mel <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
> That is the best question. As we see later, the WC is
> supporting/training all kinds of potentials. Why should it be so out of
> line for them to financially support the *actual* Slayer so she can do
> her job without worrying about whether she will have a place to sleep or
> food to eat?
>
>
> Mel
Buffy doesn't want to take money from the Council, because then they'd
have power over her. If she was taking their money, she would also have
to take their orders. It's the golden rule (Them that have the gold,
make the rules.)
Don Sample
<8ad192b0-affc-43fb...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
burt...@hotmail.com wrote:
> That's a fine rationalization, except that Joss has basically admitted
> that he pulled the "Xander summoned the demon" ending out of his ass.
> If you listen to the DVD commentary for the episode, at the end when
> he talks about how he decided who summoned Sweet, he says something
> like "Well, someone had to do it, and Xander was unexpected." It's
> obvious that he hardly even thought about it.
I agree that he'd written himself into a corner and tried to cover with
smoke and mirrors. I think it might have worked better if the Trio had
been behind it, but then he would have had to add the plot elements to
cover that, and he was already 8 minutes long.
mmi...@erols.com
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in messagenews:68087f11-eceb-4976...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
> > Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> > Director: David Grossman
>
> And important season developments as well,
> especially Willow going way too far for Tara. I don't find that particularly
> convincing. Not that I don't think Willow would be tempted to the dark
> side - more that she's smart and should be able to see that the risk/benefit
> balance is stacked against her.
I think that a major part of the point is that Willow isn't looking at
things like risk/benefit balances. She sees a "solution" and she goes
for it.
Arbitrar Of Quality
Those two arguments are not mutually exclusive.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
Risk/benefit analysis is for geeks and losers with their stupid mousy
ways.
-AOQ
Rowan Hawthorn
True. She's been "seizing the moment" ever since she met Buffy.
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
Horace LaBadie
<9bf11d0f-2bf4-49ef...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
Yeah, basically, it's the time to pull something out of some orifice as
dictated by convention, and this is it.
peachy ashie passion
Thank you. I did think you meant her biological absentee dad.
Because that would make more sense than expecting Giles to pay for her.
The Watchers Council - it would make sense to expect them to pay her a
salary. But then they might get some say over how she works. That may
have worked as a substitute mundane drama.
I think the problem is that Buffy juggling her slaying and the
demands of the mundane world has always been a core plot driver of the
show. The show would lose a central portion of it's drama if that was
abandoned, and any attempts at lesser mundane life drama would feel
cheap and artificial when the larger one is ignored.
Arbitrar Of Quality
wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > On Dec 14, 11:03 pm, Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Why can't her absentee dad pay her way through
> >>school?
>
> > In this particular sentence, I was referring to Giles, rather than her
> > actual absentee dad. Just realized how unclear that could be.
>
> Because that would make more sense than expecting Giles to pay for her.
Why shouldn't he? He's her Watcher (and he's certainly getting a fat
check for it). It's his job to support her if it'll help make sure
the world's in good hands. The only reason not to help Buffy
financially would be if we could buy that "preparing" her for the
battle ahead would require him to step away and force her to stand
alone... a viewpoint that, in this particular situation, is
nonsensical. The idea that Buffy will be a more effective Slayer at
this point in time without mundane-world help is so patently
ridiculous to me that it barely merits mentioning, except that Giles,
who should really know better, seems to believe it (unconvincingly,
from this viewer's perspective).
-AOQ
peachy ashie passion
I think the key is that I don't share your assumption that Giles
gets a fat check for the watching.
But if Giles got millions a month, it still makes MORE sense that her
actual father support her and her younger sister.
Horace LaBadie
<8bc053fb-00dd-4ac5...@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 22, 9:12 am, peachy ashie passion <exquisitepe...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > > On Dec 14, 11:03 pm, Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> Why can't her absentee dad pay her way through
> > >>school?
> >
> > > In this particular sentence, I was referring to Giles, rather than her
> > > actual absentee dad. Just realized how unclear that could be.
> >
> > Thank you. I did think you meant her biological absentee dad.
> > Because that would make more sense than expecting Giles to pay for her.
>
> Why shouldn't he? He's her Watcher (and he's certainly getting a fat
> check for it). It's his job to support her if it'll help make sure
> the world's in good hands. The only reason not to help Buffy
> financially would be if we could buy that "preparing" her for the
> battle ahead would require him to step away and force her to stand
> alone... a viewpoint that, in this particular situation, is
> nonsensical. The idea that Buffy will be a more effective Slayer at
> this point in time without mundane-world help is so patently
> ridiculous to me that it barely merits mentioning, except that Giles,
> who should really know better, seems to believe it (unconvincingly,
> from this viewer's perspective).
>
> -AOQ
The thought/feeling that is driving Giles at this point is that Buffy
will be a better adult, not just a better Slayer, if he stands aside and
she has to assume adult responsibilities. It's consistent with his own
upbringing, and he is experiencing some of the same "in over my head"
feelings himself when it comes to the parental role that has been forced
upon him. He speaks admiringly of Joyce having to cope with being the
parent of a Slayer, but we know that she was at sea most of the time
when it came to dealing with Buffy's calling. So, he doesn't have much
of a foundation for the dual role of Watcher/surrogate parent. It's also
clear that he has been struggling with this decision since Season Four,
vacillating between going and staying until after Buffy's death, and
then coming back after her resurrection. He did help her as much as he
thought he should. I think that the show did a fair job in presenting
his situation, and in setting up the premise that Giles thought that he
was justified in leaving. The audience doesn't have to think that it was
the right thing to do. In fact, the audience can feel perfectly
justified in thinking that it was wrong, which makes them more invested
in the decision. Dramatically, it's good either way.
One Bit Shy
news:68087f11-eceb-4976...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: These threads are a nightmare. They're a plague.
> They're like a nightmare about a plague.
I have a theory that it doesn't really matter.
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 4: "Life Serial"
> Another mostly-light episode with its place in the story, like
> "Flooded."
And largely repeating the themes of Flooded as Buffy tries to enter the
adult world and gets shot down. The circumstances of the season that
included OMWF as a fixed target didn't allow for a lot of room to show
something new. But the reinforcement seems to bring more depth. And, even
though I really liked Buffy's foray into the world of banking in Flooded,
the mummy hand and kitten poker this episode are positively inspired by
comparison. The reinforcement of what the Trio are also works wonders.
"Stop touching my magic bone!" might be their career high point.
> It gives the season a weird shape to have a fair amount of
> comedy clustered into discrete nodes.
Whereas in S3 the abstract moods and styles are spread about, but the
greater story fits and starts. One of the things I like about S6 is that,
to me anyhow, the seasonal story moves along pretty smoothly and naturally.
Unlike the stretched out elements and gaps in S3, or the forced march
harshness of S5. Although this episode does come across a little like a
waiting game.
> I find myself with the same
> slightly unpleasant feeling of enjoying myself, but having to make a
> willful effort to ignore some of the leaps in story logic that lead to
> everyone and everything letting Buffy down.
I'm not following you. Are you saying that people are letting Buffy down
this episode?
> Fortunately, with the
> exception of the prole-hating second act, I'm also left with the
> pleasant feeling of smiling a lot. The nerds and their magic bone
> stole the show this time for me, as did Buffy's various reactions to
> the pitiful attempt at a wild drunken night, whereas last time I
> focused more on how quickly the time-shifting at school ramps up and
> on the craftsmanship behind the whole mummy's paw sequence. It's like
> a variety show, where anyone with taste is bound to like something.
> This is not one where I would have guessed how quickly it was slapped
> together. So, are we ever going to find out which writer wrote what
> parts?
> Rating: Good
I'd rate it Good too. It's very entertaining. But, perhaps in the rush to
make it, it comes across strongly as an interlude waiting for stuff to
happen. It doesn't advance much beyond Flooded.
This episode, with Flooded, really focuses on the basics of Buffy moving
into the adult world. That's not news, but for some reason I also found
myself more focused on that this watching, and felt the emphasis on that far
more than I had before. Especially since it's two episodes in a row, and
All The Way does much the same thing, just more centered on other characters
besides Buffy.
What stands out about that to me is that Buffy ripped from heaven is not
central to the set of episodes between AfterLife and OMWF.
A little while ago I wrote about how BtVS's growing up metaphor seems to
recede into the background of S6, once in a while dealt with directly
(Doublemeat Palace), but mostly taken over by semi-mystical stories very
particular to our heroes. Being ripped from heaven and wondering whether
life on earth is worth it. The peculiar relationship between Slayer and
vampire that really does make wonder if there's a bit (or maybe a lot) of
demon in Buffy. Willow being consumed by magic and power. Anya not dealing
with the truth of her demon past, and then having that past catch up with
her. These are stories that don't easily connect to the general idea of
growing into adulthood. Well, I suppose they could if you pushed them. But
Darth Rosenberg, soul quests, and digging your way out of a grave seem
pretty distant from that to me. (Xander's personal story is the exception.
But then he's the one without special powers. His personal arc has always
been about growing up in the mundane sense of becoming mature and
responsible.)
Starting with OMWF I think this is largely true, but for the three episode
interlude before OMWF, I think growing into an adult is very much what it's
about. So much so that one might get the impression that's what the whole
season must be about.
Some of that even draws on the classic BtVS use of metaphor. The four
scenarios of this episode are all metaphors for classic struggles of young
adults. The time freeze is all about the sense that the people around you
are racing ahead of you in life, leaving you behind, revealing your lack of
ability and skills. The construction site is about being low man on the
totem pole. The lack of
respect. People not knowing you unwilling to stand by your side when
anything goes wrong. (Not so much metaphor here. Pretty literal.) The
mummy hand is about the mind numbing repetition of unrewarding tasks. The
realization that work is so often just work, where personal reward is often
limited to figuring out how to do tasks you'd never voluntarily do to begin
with. The Spike segment can probably be taken a few ways - probably because
it's doing multiple things like pushing the Spike relationship and setting
up the "climax" of the Trio encounter with its own table setting function.
(Their buffoonery is probably at its peak, and they've escaped only because
Buffy was too drunk to really lay out Jonathan. It's not a moment to take
them seriously. But Warren is inspired [and partly deluded] by the
experience, thinking maybe he can really pull this super villain thing off.)
Mixed in there is that she can't even escape the pressures for a bit with a
little fun, a little bad boy and a little slaying. It's still beating her
down - but now with the addition of a hangover.
Anyway, I don't want to dwell on that more. It's just that the simple
growing up theme came across to me a lot stronger now during this prelude to
OMWF, while the pulled from heaven aspect recedes. I don't think that
matters a lot to the season on the whole, but it might matter a lot to what
Giles is thinking now. I get a lot better what he's thinking. The things
he sees Buffy struggling with are the things that people have to face
growing up. And he sees himself letting Buffy use him to avoid them.
Again, that's not news. The series pretty much states that. I've just
never recognized it quite so strongly before. I think this part of the
setup for his decision is actually pretty good. Of course there's more to
the decision... That's another episode.
> Season Six, Episode 5: "All The Way"
> Writer: Steven S. DeKnight
> Director: David Solomon
>
> Like apparently many viewers, my brother had developed an age-
> inappropriate fixation on Michelle Trachtenberg as Dawn by this
> point.
I was just noticing a little nice hip action in her dance with Sweet...
But, no, that can't be it. OMWF was the last BtVS episode I ever saw. Must
have been something else.
> He felt that he was surprisingly affected by her desperation
> to make a connection in this episode, and her being forced to kill her
> first kiss.
It's funny you say that, 'cause that's exactly what drew my attention this
watching. (Usually I've been indifferent to her story.) I'm still a bit
indifferent to the screwing around with the gang. But starting with the
kiss in the car I found myself getting more and more involved. I was
particularly struck by how Dawn seemed very nearly accepting of being bitten
before Giles showed up.
> The show has the task of bringing out the serious side of
> what's going to be nowhere near as dramatic (either to the characters
> or the viewer) as Buffy's analogous choice, and it does, but the
> episode certainly feels "minor" as a result. Some really cool
> dustings, though, especially from Action!Giles. Dawn will need to be
> saved from danger she gets herself into many more times this year, but
> on this occasion it makes some sense. You know what stuck with me the
> most in between last viewing and this one? The poor crazy old guy who
> gets killed.
It's a good performance I think, though not terribly connected to anything.
His function as a misdirect seems to fall a bit flat to me - one of the
reasons I find the episode struggling to retain my interest. But while he's
on screen there's not much else to do but watch him, and he's kind of
intriguing in himself.
> The other thing I always remembered most vividly about
> this one is, of course, the creepy closing image, which, yes, is
> totally something Willow would do. It seems to be a heavy ending to
> an episode that hasn't built it up, but I actually kinda like the
> unusual structure - ATW's Scoobies plot thread starts as a party
> centered around Xander and Anya, and it only gradually reveals its
> purpose when something that happens in passing leads Tara and Willow
> to start talking about some ongoing concerns. That's the way things
> happen sometimes. The downside is that this episode has been
> criticized for being a hodgepodge of random stuff, which it kinda is,
> but the assorted crap collectively balances action, comedy, and
> weightiness in about the right BTVS-ish proportions.
I shouldn't complain about the hodge-podge. There's a lot of good stuff in
there. I really enjoyed Xander's impulsive announcement. There's something
sweet
about him watching Anya from a distance and having the love well up in him
so that he has to share it with Buffy. And then the poor guy gets all the
implications dumped on him shortly thereafter. I realized this time that
it's not just the list of grownup things that Anya throws at him, but also
the knowledge that she's a thousand steps ahead of him when he feels like he
just started. Already he's being dragged somewhere instead of charting his
own course. That sense of losing control of one's life is a classic growing
up issue and probably this episode's most prominent contribution to that
theme.
> Oh, let me
> retrospectively toss some extra credit to Mrs. Quality; if you
> remember, she noticed the show's use of drug metaphors a month before
> it started making them more obvious.
Tara: Willow, you are using too much magic. What do you want me to do, just,
just sit back and keep my mouth shut?
That's not entirely obscure, but still, good for Mrs. Quality.
One of the more common complaints about the magic/drug metaphor is that it
came out of nowhere. As for the addictive quality (which may be a misdirect
or at least limited in scope anyway), I think this may be the first time
that it's so directly termed to suggest that possibility. However, the
notion that Willow "abuses" magic is hardly new. Oz and Tara both, who
presumably saw it closer than anybody else, both expressed concerns about
her use in past seasons. Then along the lines of going too far, taking
chances, recklessness, and so on. At the time it didn't feel all that drug
like, but the complaint and Willow's approach does fit with drug
experimentation. More recently Tara's complaint has shifted towards using
magic to replace real world action. There's some language of dependency
there, and drugs as an escape.
That's relatively recent too. But the things that I think have been present
for a long time in Willow's relationship with magic that lets the metaphor
work for me is how she treats magic so indulgently and how much she "gets
off" on it. Especially after Tara arrived, magic has been depicted as a
feel good sensual experience that is as much about feeling the magic as it
is about what the magic accomplishes. Even when the experience doesn't
actually feel that good, it's still shown as Willow consuming the magic -
being dosed as it were. This gets a bit confused with its use as a sex
metaphor in S4, which follows a parallel line. But if you go back to scenes
like the Astral Projection spell in Who Are You? or Willow and Tara floating
above the dance floor, it's really not hard at all to think of them as being
kind of stoned on magic while they're doing it.
Coming back to the conclusion of this episode with the forget spell, and
Willow's broader interest in forget spells as the solution to so much, that
too connects strongly with the drug metaphor since one of the most common
criticisms (and sometimes praise) of drugs is depending on them to forget
the cares of the world.
This also serves a parallel being developed between Willow and Buffy. Buffy
is burdened her own way with the cares of the world, which she seeks to
retreat from through her own brand of intoxication. Last episode it was
booze. But it's who gave her that booze that'll addict her.
Somewhere in the background John Lennon is singing, "Whatever gets you
through the night is alright."
> Rating: Good
With the numerous good elements and nice set-up for OMWF, maybe it's not the
jumble of pieces that's the weakness of the episode. Perhaps it's the Dawn
and creepy old man stories that are the central unifying tale. It really
strains to hold the episode together, not altogether succeeding. Most of it
isn't terribly interesting to me, and just when the emotional level picks up
(Dawn's first kiss and all), it stumbles through a really drawn out Dawn
stammer.
Whatever the cause of it is, this episode does not flow well for me and
drags down otherwise good material to a Decent rating.
> Season Six, Episode 6: "Once More, With Feeling"
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
> Back when I was a _Star Trek_ fan, my opinions changed about the movie
> _Star Trek IV: The One With The Whales_. Specifically, the deeper I
> got fanatically enmeshed in the franchise, the more the movie bothered
> me. The cavalier attitude towards the possibility of time travel, the
> total lack of worry about altering history, the crew making plainly
> 20th-century pop-culture references... all of it seemed more and more un-
> Trek-like, and as a die-hard, it became harder and harder to ignore
> these misgivings and smile. Then as I discovered other things in the
> world, and the integrity of the ST franchise seemed like less of a big
> deal, I re-discovered my ability to enjoy STIV, a funny and generally
> engaging film.
I think STIV is actually when my like of ST went up a couple of notches.
Part of it was the way the movie just let loose and felt at ease with
itself. ST never felt so pompous after that. But on another level I feel
like that's when the spirit of Kirk finally won me over - and won over the
characters. The original series had tons of stuff at least as dumb as
anything in STIV. A lot of it they got through by just ignoring and
pretending to take seriously. But I think the thing that really makes it
work - largely in retrospect for me - is Kirk bulling his way through it
larger than life. Who gives a shit about continuity and technical crap when
you can let fists fly and toss out Shakespearian speeches? STIV seems to be
when that spirit infects the crew and the whole movie. I stopped thinking
of all the silly over the top stuff as faintly embarrassing and just went
with the spirit. Not even row, row, row your boat could bring me down after
that.
I think that's when I finally really caught onto Kirk's palpable eagerness
to explore, to experience, to go where no man's gone before.
Nobody's that unrestrained on Next Generation of course - a different show.
But its characters still seem to live full lives - to be human. Them
letting loose is a huge part of the series. I think that was an essential
part of making it a popular franchise. For me, STIV was essential for
appreciating everything, though it started fading in Voyager.
But I definitely digress.
> Well, where STIV had Scotty peddling technological
> discoveries on the grounds of "hey, how do we know he doesn't invent
> it?" OMWF has Xander being the one responsible for the spell. Not
> only that, but he continues to hide his involvement after people start
> dropping dead. Remember the part where Xander had seemingly learned
> his lesson long ago about this kind of magic... and even more
> importantly, remember the part where our heroes tend to feel a smidgen
> of guilt when they're complicit in the murder of innocent people? On
> one hand, it's a minor aspect of the story being told, something
> thrown in at the end. On the other, if one is to take the Buffyverse
> seriously, that would include this, and it's a major cloud that hangs
> over not only the episode but the rest of the series in which it's
> basically forgotten.
I didn't even notice the damned thing until it came up in the discussion of
your first review. On the whole, I wish I'd never heard of it. However one
wants to rationalize it or not, it sure doesn't appear intended to be a big
deal. I'll go with that.
> Second is another group moment, the climax of "Walk Through The
> Fire:" although Joss thinks the song should have had more kick, the
> final chorus is perfect for its context.
It's one of the weaker songs musically, but it's one of my favorites
emotionally. I don't know what all was in Joss's head, but I imagine this
was drawn at least some from West Side Story's Tonight. That's vastly
superior to Walk Through The Fire, but it shares the sense of a confluence
of forces coming together, the images of people striding towards the
showdown, the mix of musical voices with their own independent perspectives.
You can do a lot worse than that as a model.
This watching I was especially struck, as the Scoobies marched together, by
Tara's brave refrain of "What can't we face if we're together?" as everybody
tumbles into some form of despair. Somehow it seems right for her to hang
on as the true believer. I think she'd be the one to most take to heart
those words as inspiration - even though Buffy had offered them somewhat
cynically.
> Meanwhile, in a new development, the episode begins with Buffy
> swearing she'd never have anything to do romantically with Spike, and
> ends with them together.
Pah! No it doesn't.
> Rating: Excellent
I'm not sure what the dividing line for a Superlative rating is, but this
has to be Superlative since it doesn't get better than this.
> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
> Meanwhile, in a new development, the episode begins with Buffy
> swearing she'd never have anything to do romantically with Spike, and
> ends with them together.
And it was a new development in the last scene of OMWF. It's still new.
Shocking even.
> Rating: Good
I don't really have anything new to say. But this remains Excellent in my
book. Extraordinarily entertaining. One of the funniest BtVS episodes
ever... until it becomes one of the saddest ever. What a combo.
> Additional comments on S6D2: I intend to try to get a lot of mileage
> out of that "meanwhile, in a new development" bit. That's actually my
> biggest problem with the B/S relationship, but that bit of bitching
> can be saved for next disc.
Not that you'd engage in hyperbole or anything.
Since part of the story is that at some level Buffy is always appalled at
what she's doing, I would think resisting would be part of it too. It's a
perpetual battle between breaking down resistance and building it back up.
> Besides, the treatment of Giles is a much more significant complaint
> for me. I've never felt that the show's willful desire to destroy the
> character's integrity in its last two seasons served it very well, but
> this is kinda beyond the pale. And I'm still not sure whether or not
> the writers realize it, but either way, it bothers me. One more
> repetition, to keep things in perspective: Buffy is nineteen years
> old.
I was thinking very much the same thing when I went through this year's
round of considering the big Giles run away.
But that got me thinking about how my mother got married at 19 and had me at
20 - less than a year later. She may not have had Buffy's burdens, but she
did get flung into the deep end without a lot of outside help.
That's true of many, many people. Struggling at that age with a dependent,
short of income, and little support is how an awful lot of people face life.
They mostly get by too. And advice columns are filled with people asking
what to do about their kids who won't leave home and don't learn how to live
on their own.
I know every story is unique. There is no one right answer. But playing to
her age and the burdens of starting out on her own isn't a persuasive
argument to me.
> She's saved the world many times over, and as a result is
> currently suffering from an extreme case of post-heeeaven stress
> disorder. She effectively has no living parents, no source of income
> (and little time for work, given her night job), and a sister to
> support. Giles, with no advance warning, abandons her completely when
> she needs him most, financially, professionally, and emotionally.
Giles did give Buffy a large check. We don't know how much, but it had to
be some number of thousands - enough to push the financial worries back far
enough to really relieve Buffy. That's something other than abandonment.
And for all we know, more might push his financial ability. We also don't
know that he wouldn't come through with more later if asked. He's removing
himself as a day-to-day crutch. I don't see anything that says he'd never
be willing to help her again.
Furthermore, he leaves with the knowledge of a group of people dedicated to
her and her cause that want to give her emotional and practical support.
One of them lives with Buffy. (He might think two of them do. I'm not sure
if he knows about the Willow/Tara break-up. He certainly didn't have much
time to think it through. He pretty much had to run to the airport after
the spell.)
And he had very specific reasons for thinking the way he did. He saw Buffy
using his generosity as a way to avoid her responsibilities rather than as a
way to grow into them. And he saw himself unable to say no to her. In
combination it's not difficult at all to see why he would think staying was
a dead end.
> What a complete dick. It doesn't feel like an organic in-character
> development. That's keeping in mind that the show has taken plenty of
> time to show us his ridiculous notion that he's getting in her way,
> her tendency to avoid certain responsibilities entirely when she can
> dump them on him, his strong discomfort with the idea of being a
> father figure, and the fact that this NG discussion has touched on
> this whole topic several times. I still don't come anywhere near
> buying it.
Personally I think it works very well until the end of OMWF. Even the
Slayer component is eased with not terribly difficult challenges and people
to help her there too. And part of the point of, "I've got a theory. It
doesn't matter," is to show Buffy over-depending on others even where she's
the expert Slayer.
I think it really falls to the issue of Buffy being pulled from heaven.
Without that, I think the rest hangs together very well. With it, it's a
problem.
The problem is that one would think that even Giles - too close to the
picture - would still recognize the clinical depression implied. One would
think that he would recognize that he's mis-diagnosed the problem. That
it's something bigger. So, what does he say about that learning what
Buffy's gone through?
Giles: Now more than ever. The temptation to give up is gonna be
overwhelming.
My heart cries out that can't be the right answer. The answer to the kind
of trouble she's in can't possibly be sink or swim.
But the story we get says otherwise, and somehow plays true. Some people
complain a lot about the bleakness of S6, but it doesn't play that way to
me. Because even at its darkest it's about Buffy fighting her way back and
reclaiming her spirit. Unlike S5, when everything was stacked to make her
lose, S6 is aimed at her finding her way out. As hard as many of the paths
will be, her low point has actually already passed with the death dance
before Sweet. From here on she puts herself back together bit by bit - even
when she can't see it herself. She'll triumph in the end.
The point being that it's Buffy's willpower that ultimately wins the day.
Giles isn't wrong about what it takes or what she's capable of.
What would have happened if Giles stayed? Perhaps fewer bills, though
that's never the level of problem that's already passed. And Buffy does get
a job eventually. However crappy it may be, it's still part of getting
Buffy standing on her own. Would that have happened if Giles had stayed?
Obviously it's impossible to know what would have happened, but a look at
the things Buffy actually does to recover herself do not strongly suggest to
me how much better it would have been if Giles were there.
I'll never be comfortable with the way his departure is handled. I sense a
lot of that non-organic character movement that you refer to. It's just
that I can't lose the sense that somehow Giles is right anyway. Maybe he
doesn't know how to say it - or even entirely get it. He just knows how to
act on it.
(I think I'll leave out the long-term implications that are more of a S7
issue.)
> Tara's mention of watching _Spongebob Squarepants_ with Willow has
> apparently led some to conclude that this is a character who spends
> quite a bit of quality time ingesting a certain herb of a non-magical
> variety.
If she does, then so does Willow. Drugs, drugs. Everywhere drugs. Who
knew this series was so decadent?
OBS
mariposas rand mair fheal
> > Season Six, Episode 4: "Life Serial"
>
> adult world and gets shot down. The circumstances of the season that
> included OMWF as a fixed target didn't allow for a lot of room to show
> something new. But the reinforcement seems to bring more depth. And, even
> though I really liked Buffy's foray into the world of banking in Flooded,
> the mummy hand and kitten poker this episode are positively inspired by
> comparison. The reinforcement of what the Trio are also works wonders.
> "Stop touching my magic bone!" might be their career high point.
more importantly
its the introduction of clem
arf meow arf - everything thing i know i learned
from the collective unconscience of odd bodkins
sacramento - political pigsty of the western world
or a babys arm holding an apple
Arbitrar Of Quality
I see no problem with the assumption, given that Watchers need to get
all the rare books and weapons somehow. More relevantly, we see Giles
with his nice house in the U.S. (in addition to his nice house back
home seen in S7) in Season Four during a period when he's unemployed
and not yet aware that he'll be paid retroactively for Watching. At
no point does he ever express any financial concerns, despite being
nowhere near retirement age, and generally gives the impression of
being independently wealthy at this point. Now (S6) he's a paid
Watcher again, and he continues to get a nice kickback from his
successful business as well, though it appears he lets Anya continue
to mostly run it.
But let's say that Giles is doing okay for himself but not rolling in
money, so he can't, say, single-handedly fund a college education.
It's still not outlandish a request to ask him to contribute to
helping Buffy get through a rough patch.
> But if Giles got millions a month, it still makes MORE sense that her
> actual father support her and her younger sister.
Well, it would make sense in general for Buffy's actual father to not
completely disappear from the series even after his children were
orphaned, but he's outlasted his usefulness to the story they wanted
to tell, apparently.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in messagenews:68087f11-eceb-4976...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
["Life Serial"]
> I'd rate it Good too. It's very entertaining. But, perhaps in the rush to
> make it, it comes across strongly as an interlude waiting for stuff to
> happen. It doesn't advance much beyond Flooded.
It's like a better version of "Flooded," which was also pretty good.
I can see not enjoying the Trio's scenes there, but here, as long as
one is down with the premise, it's pretty much impossible not to love
the execution. The loan and the stupid skirt had their moments, but
they don't begin to compare to the mummy hand. And I just realized
that you basically already wrote the same thing.
> A little while ago I wrote about how BtVS's growing up metaphor seems to
> recede into the background of S6, once in a while dealt with directly
> (Doublemeat Palace), but mostly taken over by semi-mystical stories very
> particular to our heroes. [snip]
> Starting with OMWF I think this is largely true, but for the three episode
> interlude before OMWF, I think growing into an adult is very much what it's
> about. So much so that one might get the impression that's what the whole
> season must be about.
>
> Some of that even draws on the classic BtVS use of metaphor. The four
> scenarios of this episode are all metaphors for classic struggles of young
> adults. The time freeze is all about the sense that the people around you
> are racing ahead of you in life, leaving you behind, revealing your lack of
> ability and skills. The construction site is about being low man on the
> totem pole. The lack of
> respect. People not knowing you unwilling to stand by your side when
> anything goes wrong. (Not so much metaphor here. Pretty literal.) The
> mummy hand is about the mind numbing repetition of unrewarding tasks. The
> realization that work is so often just work, where personal reward is often
> limited to figuring out how to do tasks you'd never voluntarily do to begin
> with.
That's a new interpretation to me, but those seem to make sense, at
least well enough to be one-act metaphors.
> > He felt that he was surprisingly affected by her desperation
> > to make a connection in this episode, and her being forced to kill her
> > first kiss.
>
> It's funny you say that, 'cause that's exactly what drew my attention this
> watching. (Usually I've been indifferent to her story.) I'm still a bit
> indifferent to the screwing around with the gang. But starting with the
> kiss in the car I found myself getting more and more involved. I was
> particularly struck by how Dawn seemed very nearly accepting of being bitten
> before Giles showed up.
One thing the show plays with from time to time in Dawn-focused
stories is the way things seem bigger and more dramatic when you're
younger but not so much so when you're older and at a distance.
> One of the more common complaints about the magic/drug metaphor is that it
> came out of nowhere. As for the addictive quality (which may be a misdirect
> or at least limited in scope anyway), I think this may be the first time
> that it's so directly termed to suggest that possibility. However, the
> notion that Willow "abuses" magic is hardly new. Oz and Tara both, who
> presumably saw it closer than anybody else, both expressed concerns about
> her use in past seasons. Then along the lines of going too far, taking
> chances, recklessness, and so on.
It's certainly something that's set up. Of course, as I'm arguing in
other cases (Giles, Xander's half of that episode you like so much),
the simple fact of an attempt to set something up doesn't necessarily
mean that the stage had been successfully set. I myself like the way
the twin dangers to and from Willow intertwine throughout the season,
but you're right that it seems that to many people it feels like a
sharp left-turn: some argue that the show paved the way for a story
about abuse of power and then went elsewhere.
> Coming back to the conclusion of this episode with the forget spell, and
> Willow's broader interest in forget spells as the solution to so much, that
> too connects strongly with the drug metaphor since one of the most common
> criticisms (and sometimes praise) of drugs is depending on them to forget
> the cares of the world.
Hmmm. At this point, that element doesn't seem to be drawn very
strongly, since Willow is still directed towards using spells to do
stuff, and changing things other than herself. That's not the whole
story, as is more clear in retrospect, but feeling of the magic itself
and the attempt to use the power to define what she is and hide from
who she was aren't the major emphasis in these particular episodes.
The drug metaphor will get plenty direct later, so it may be best
after all that the show keeps it mostly submerged for now.
> I think STIV is actually when my like of ST went up a couple of notches.
> Part of it was the way the movie just let loose and felt at ease with
> itself. ST never felt so pompous after that. But on another level I feel
> like that's when the spirit of Kirk finally won me over - and won over the
> characters. The original series had tons of stuff at least as dumb as
> anything in STIV. A lot of it they got through by just ignoring and
> pretending to take seriously. But I think the thing that really makes it
> work - largely in retrospect for me - is Kirk bulling his way through it
> larger than life. Who gives a shit about continuity and technical crap when
> you can let fists fly and toss out Shakespearian speeches? STIV seems to be
> when that spirit infects the crew and the whole movie. I stopped thinking
> of all the silly over the top stuff as faintly embarrassing and just went
> with the spirit. Not even row, row, row your boat could bring me down after
> that.
Since you say "in retrospect," if you have occassion to go back to the
early days of the franchise, do you notice the same spirit there now?
It's one of the things that fans had been latching on to well before
STIV. Shatner's acting style is endlessly mockable, but it was well
suited for the context. It's interesting that you say that the TNG
cast seemed to have lives and let loose more, since my minimal effort
non-scientific survey tells me that it's in vogue nowadays for the TOS/
DS9 fans to disparage TNG (in part possibly based on memories of the
erly episodes, but that's my theory) for always seeming so stiff and
taking itself so seriously, even when people were allegedly relaxing.
> I think that's when I finally really caught onto Kirk's palpable eagerness
> to explore, to experience, to go where no man's gone before.
>
> Nobody's that unrestrained on Next Generation of course - a different show.
> But its characters still seem to live full lives - to be human. Them
> letting loose is a huge part of the series. I think that was an essential
> part of making it a popular franchise. For me, STIV was essential for
> appreciating everything, though it started fading in Voyager.
>
> But I definitely digress.
[re: Xander's Other Lie]
[... well, the issue is more his responsibility for people's deaths,
but I thought that was funny]
> I didn't even notice the damned thing until it came up in the discussion of
> your first review. On the whole, I wish I'd never heard of it. However one
> wants to rationalize it or not, it sure doesn't appear intended to be a big
> deal. I'll go with that.
I think that's a pretty clear sign of a flaw, if the most satisfying
way to deal with it is to mostly ignore it (which I'm fine to do, for
the most part).
> > Second is another group moment, the climax of "Walk Through The
> > Fire:" although Joss thinks the song should have had more kick, the
> > final chorus is perfect for its context.
>
> It's one of the weaker songs musically, but it's one of my favorites
> emotionally. I don't know what all was in Joss's head, but I imagine this
> was drawn at least some from West Side Story's Tonight. That's vastly
> superior to Walk Through The Fire, but it shares the sense of a confluence
> of forces coming together, the images of people striding towards the
> showdown, the mix of musical voices with their own independent perspectives.
> You can do a lot worse than that as a model.
I don't see why everyone thinks it's so weak musically. It certainly
passes the "get stuck in my head" test better than almost any other in
the episode, and that chorus is appropriately bombastic as something
that needs to be built to, coming from a mopey place. No doubt that
_West Side Story_ is a point of comparison; I think WTTF benefits from
the common chorus. I don't watch enough musicals to know if the
independent spins on the same song coming together is a standard part
of the pre-climax, but maybe it should be, I dunno. I only know
"Tonight" and the parody of it from the _South Park_ movie.
> But that got me thinking about how my mother got married at 19 and had me at
> 20 - less than a year later. She may not have had Buffy's burdens, but she
> did get flung into the deep end without a lot of outside help.
>
> That's true of many, many people. Struggling at that age with a dependent,
> short of income, and little support is how an awful lot of people face life.
> They mostly get by too. And advice columns are filled with people asking
> what to do about their kids who won't leave home and don't learn how to live
> on their own.
>
> I know every story is unique. There is no one right answer. But playing to
> her age and the burdens of starting out on her own isn't a persuasive
> argument to me.
Both kids and young adults are capable of more than people give them
credit for. That doesn't suggest to me that they should have to go
through the worst if alternatives are available.
> Some people
> complain a lot about the bleakness of S6, but it doesn't play that way to
> me. Because even at its darkest it's about Buffy fighting her way back and
> reclaiming her spirit. Unlike S5, when everything was stacked to make her
> lose, S6 is aimed at her finding her way out. As hard as many of the paths
> will be, her low point has actually already passed with the death dance
> before Sweet.
I was thinking about that some with regard to the next few discs.
Before I formally raise the question, any preemptive thoughts on
Buffy's fairly steady path away from wanting to die in contrast with
the threat to her identity and the associated rock-bottom of the Spike
relationship?
> > Tara's mention of watching _Spongebob Squarepants_ with Willow has
> > apparently led some to conclude that this is a character who spends
> > quite a bit of quality time ingesting a certain herb of a non-magical
> > variety.
>
> If she does, then so does Willow. Drugs, drugs. Everywhere drugs. Who
> knew this series was so decadent?
Willow might just be indulgent. Tara seemingly strikes people as more
of a stoner type; one of the few who may (or may not) be using drugs
recreationally in the present day without it being a big issue. The
idea just amuses me, mostly. As far as drugs everywhere... well, Fred
back in her younger days is canon, Giles likely during his days in
Pink Floyd, and Spike probably tried a little of everything but wasn't
satisfied.
-AOQ
mmi...@erols.com
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in messagenews:68087f11-eceb-4976...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Season Six, Episode 5: "All The Way"
> > Writer: Steven S. DeKnight
> > Director: David Solomon
>
> One of the more common complaints about the magic/drug metaphor is that it
> came out of nowhere. As for the addictive quality (which may be a misdirect
> or at least limited in scope anyway), I think this may be the first time
> that it's so directly termed to suggest that possibility. However, the
> notion that Willow "abuses" magic is hardly new. Oz and Tara both, who
> presumably saw it closer than anybody else, both expressed concerns about
> her use in past seasons. Then along the lines of going too far, taking
> chances, recklessness, and so on. At the time it didn't feel all that drug
> like, but the complaint and Willow's approach does fit with drug
> experimentation. More recently Tara's complaint has shifted towards using
> magic to replace real world action. There's some language of dependency
> there, and drugs as an escape.
>
And, not in relation to Willow, but there's also Giles' description of
the Eyghon spell as (IIRC) an "extraordinary high".
And then there's the band candy...
One Bit Shy
> On Dec 22, 11:22 pm, "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
>> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:68087f11-eceb-4976...@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> The four
>> scenarios of this episode are all metaphors for classic struggles of
>> young
>> adults. The time freeze is all about the sense that the people around
>> you
>> are racing ahead of you in life, leaving you behind, revealing your lack
>> of
>> ability and skills. The construction site is about being low man on the
>> totem pole. The lack of
>> respect. People not knowing you unwilling to stand by your side when
>> anything goes wrong. (Not so much metaphor here. Pretty literal.) The
>> mummy hand is about the mind numbing repetition of unrewarding tasks.
>> The
>> realization that work is so often just work, where personal reward is
>> often
>> limited to figuring out how to do tasks you'd never voluntarily do to
>> begin
>> with.
>
> That's a new interpretation to me, but those seem to make sense, at
> least well enough to be one-act metaphors.
I'd noticed it before, but hadn't thought much about it. For some reason,
real life beating on Buffy stood out for me way more than usual this time.
>> One of the more common complaints about the magic/drug metaphor is that
>> it
>> came out of nowhere. As for the addictive quality (which may be a
>> misdirect
>> or at least limited in scope anyway), I think this may be the first time
>> that it's so directly termed to suggest that possibility. However, the
>> notion that Willow "abuses" magic is hardly new. Oz and Tara both, who
>> presumably saw it closer than anybody else, both expressed concerns about
>> her use in past seasons. Then along the lines of going too far, taking
>> chances, recklessness, and so on.
>
> It's certainly something that's set up. Of course, as I'm arguing in
> other cases (Giles, Xander's half of that episode you like so much),
What episode? The Yoko Factor? Xander wasn't half of that. Something
else?
> the simple fact of an attempt to set something up doesn't necessarily
> mean that the stage had been successfully set. I myself like the way
> the twin dangers to and from Willow intertwine throughout the season,
> but you're right that it seems that to many people it feels like a
> sharp left-turn: some argue that the show paved the way for a story
> about abuse of power and then went elsewhere.
I don't think most of that was aimed at the drug thing at all - and probably
was more abuse of power oriented - which of course shows up this season too
eventually. The real blow-up calls back to Tough Love, but raised an order
of magnitude in intensity. The drug story is presumably at least partly a
misdirect, though I hesitate to call it all a misdirect since I think it
also speaks to Willow's nature.
To a large extent the drug metaphor is a sharp left-turn. But just in the
sense of being unexpected, IMO. At this point I was just pausing a moment
to show more drug like allusions existing than may have registered on a lot
of people. (For me, the tone of the S4 relationship had always felt kind of
druggy to me, but it gets kinda confused with the magic as sex metaphor.
Feel good on all levels.) All The Way is, I think, the first time the
language starts getting really overt. (Willow saying she can give it up for
a month and so on.) But even here it's not readily recognizable if you
don't know what's to come.
Looking ahead briefly, the elements that win me over (and ties in with the
abuse of power side) are Willow's recklessness and self indulgence.
>> Coming back to the conclusion of this episode with the forget spell, and
>> Willow's broader interest in forget spells as the solution to so much,
>> that
>> too connects strongly with the drug metaphor since one of the most common
>> criticisms (and sometimes praise) of drugs is depending on them to forget
>> the cares of the world.
>
> Hmmm. At this point, that element doesn't seem to be drawn very
> strongly, since Willow is still directed towards using spells to do
> stuff, and changing things other than herself. That's not the whole
> story, as is more clear in retrospect, but feeling of the magic itself
> and the attempt to use the power to define what she is and hide from
> who she was aren't the major emphasis in these particular episodes.
> The drug metaphor will get plenty direct later, so it may be best
> after all that the show keeps it mostly submerged for now.
Again, I'm only trying to show elements that are consistent with the drug
mindset, not necessarily pointing us at it. The overt stuff will come soon
enough.
>> I think STIV is actually when my like of ST went up a couple of notches.
>> Part of it was the way the movie just let loose and felt at ease with
>> itself. ST never felt so pompous after that. But on another level I
>> feel
>> like that's when the spirit of Kirk finally won me over - and won over
>> the
>> characters. The original series had tons of stuff at least as dumb as
>> anything in STIV. A lot of it they got through by just ignoring and
>> pretending to take seriously. But I think the thing that really makes it
>> work - largely in retrospect for me - is Kirk bulling his way through it
>> larger than life. Who gives a shit about continuity and technical crap
>> when
>> you can let fists fly and toss out Shakespearian speeches? STIV seems to
>> be
>> when that spirit infects the crew and the whole movie. I stopped
>> thinking
>> of all the silly over the top stuff as faintly embarrassing and just went
>> with the spirit. Not even row, row, row your boat could bring me down
>> after
>> that.
>
> Since you say "in retrospect," if you have occassion to go back to the
> early days of the franchise, do you notice the same spirit there now?
It's a curious question. I haven't watched episodes of the original TV show
in quite a while. They're not so readily available to me anymore, though I
don't think I'd have a strong urge to watch anyway. (The crappy production
quality does get old by most any standard.) I believe I did watch a fair
amount of them after STIV though, and at least recall enjoying them.
However, what I was speaking to was more about accepting and enjoying the
franchise moving forward. It seemed easier to go with their spirit after
that. The movies for sure. Probably the later series too, though they
independently brought features to the franchise too.
> It's one of the things that fans had been latching on to well before
> STIV. Shatner's acting style is endlessly mockable, but it was well
> suited for the context.
I certainly was aware of what Shatner did. I just don't think I appreciated
it sufficiently until STIV - which oddly doesn't have all that much to do
with Shatner himself at that point.
> It's interesting that you say that the TNG
> cast seemed to have lives and let loose more,
I doubt that they actually let loose more - it's just depicted more. And
that element of their lives is made into an essential part of the series.
> since my minimal effort
> non-scientific survey tells me that it's in vogue nowadays for the TOS/
> DS9 fans to disparage TNG (in part possibly based on memories of the
> erly episodes,
With some justification. It's start was pretty iffy. Especially for the
dullness of the characterizations.
> but that's my theory) for always seeming so stiff and
> taking itself so seriously, even when people were allegedly relaxing.
My theory is that's a negative reaction to the culture of that crew, which
is very much a reflection of Picard. That's not to say each member
reflected him. It's the whole culture. There's a lot more to my thoughts
on this than really is appropriate for this newsgroup, but one simple
manifestation is their group enjoyment of sailing the high seas scenarios.
Aside from the natural metaphor for their real lives, it nicely combines the
reckless bravado of an age of piracy with the very formalized, almost
ritualistic ways of doing things on ancient (for them) warships. I think
most of the ST series are in some fashion about how people work together as
teams, but for TNG that's the central story. (In an ongoing sense.) In
telling that story, the show works very hard to extend it beyond the bridge
to show how they live and play together too. TNG is presented as a kind of
model for team success. DS9 does something similar (though it's story
extends well beyond this concept), but is consciously more dysfunctional.
>> > Second is another group moment, the climax of "Walk Through The
>> > Fire:" although Joss thinks the song should have had more kick, the
>> > final chorus is perfect for its context.
>>
>> It's one of the weaker songs musically, but it's one of my favorites
>> emotionally. I don't know what all was in Joss's head, but I imagine
>> this
>> was drawn at least some from West Side Story's Tonight. That's vastly
>> superior to Walk Through The Fire, but it shares the sense of a
>> confluence
>> of forces coming together, the images of people striding towards the
>> showdown, the mix of musical voices with their own independent
>> perspectives.
>> You can do a lot worse than that as a model.
>
> I don't see why everyone thinks it's so weak musically. It certainly
> passes the "get stuck in my head" test better than almost any other in
> the episode, and that chorus is appropriately bombastic as something
> that needs to be built to, coming from a mopey place. No doubt that
> _West Side Story_ is a point of comparison; I think WTTF benefits from
> the common chorus. I don't watch enough musicals to know if the
> independent spins on the same song coming together is a standard part
> of the pre-climax, but maybe it should be, I dunno. I only know
> "Tonight" and the parody of it from the _South Park_ movie.
I like the song. The fire engines going by gives me shivers every time.
It's almost as much a climax for me as give me something to sing about. But
without the emotional content of its lyrics in context I think the song is
ponderous. <shrug> That's my taste.
>> Some people
>> complain a lot about the bleakness of S6, but it doesn't play that way to
>> me. Because even at its darkest it's about Buffy fighting her way back
>> and
>> reclaiming her spirit. Unlike S5, when everything was stacked to make
>> her
>> lose, S6 is aimed at her finding her way out. As hard as many of the
>> paths
>> will be, her low point has actually already passed with the death dance
>> before Sweet.
>
> I was thinking about that some with regard to the next few discs.
> Before I formally raise the question, any preemptive thoughts on
> Buffy's fairly steady path away from wanting to die in contrast with
> the threat to her identity and the associated rock-bottom of the Spike
> relationship?
I'm not sure what you're getting at. There be premises and theories lurking
in those sentences.
Unable (or unmotivated) to reach for life, and the people linked to life
largely blocked off from her for one reason or another, it's interesting
that she reaches for the living dead to feel life. That's a dangerous path
that does threaten to suck Buffy into a thoroughly disconnected non-Buffy
like world. But all of that, frankly, is kind of vague to me. What would
going off with Spike really mean? What would happen to that in the long run
if she had succumbed to Spike's wiles? I'm not so sure that would ever been
any more than a delay for Buffy. The ways in which we see her threatened
with losing part of herself, to me really are about her rediscovering
herself piece by piece as she painfully re-learns how it matters.
Is that in the ballpark?
>> > Tara's mention of watching _Spongebob Squarepants_ with Willow has
>> > apparently led some to conclude that this is a character who spends
>> > quite a bit of quality time ingesting a certain herb of a non-magical
>> > variety.
>>
>> If she does, then so does Willow. Drugs, drugs. Everywhere drugs. Who
>> knew this series was so decadent?
>
> Willow might just be indulgent. Tara seemingly strikes people as more
> of a stoner type; one of the few who may (or may not) be using drugs
> recreationally in the present day without it being a big issue. The
> idea just amuses me, mostly. As far as drugs everywhere... well, Fred
> back in her younger days is canon, Giles likely during his days in
> Pink Floyd, and Spike probably tried a little of everything but wasn't
> satisfied.
Oh, it amuses me too. I think the series decided to make drugs a mostly
untouchable subject early on - probably because it was too politically
charged to handle usefully. (As I've said before, I don't think they say
anything at all about drugs in Willow's story. They just use the popular
language of drugs to tell their own story.) Hell, they rarely show anybody
drunk, and tend to fuss about that. But kids in their environment - you
know there's drugs. I don't think it's possible for some stoner sensibility
not to sneak in. I cannot imagine Oz going through life drug free.
OBS
Arbitrar Of Quality
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in messagenews:68e60db2-e725-4069...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> > It's certainly something that's set up. Of course, as I'm arguing in
> > other cases (Giles, Xander's half of that episode you like so much),
>
> What episode? The Yoko Factor? Xander wasn't half of that. Something
> else?
"Hell's Bells." You certainly can't argue that they weren't at least
*trying* to set up Xander's side of the ending.
> >> As hard as many of the
> >> paths
> >> will be, her low point has actually already passed with the death dance
> >> before Sweet.
>
> > I was thinking about that some with regard to the next few discs.
> > Before I formally raise the question, any preemptive thoughts on
> > Buffy's fairly steady path away from wanting to die in contrast with
> > the threat to her identity and the associated rock-bottom of the Spike
> > relationship?
>
>The ways in which we see her threatened
> with losing part of herself, to me really are about her rediscovering
> herself piece by piece as she painfully re-learns how it matters.
>
> Is that in the ballpark?
I realized that my response to this was degenerating into nonsense, so
I'm cutting myself off. Let's just say that this approach is one way
to think about that makes some sense, but it's not so obvious.
> > Willow might just be indulgent. Tara seemingly strikes people as more
> > of a stoner type; one of the few who may (or may not) be using drugs
> > recreationally in the present day without it being a big issue. The
> > idea just amuses me, mostly. As far as drugs everywhere... well, Fred
> > back in her younger days is canon, Giles likely during his days in
> > Pink Floyd, and Spike probably tried a little of everything but wasn't
> > satisfied.
>
> Oh, it amuses me too. I think the series decided to make drugs a mostly
> untouchable subject early on - probably because it was too politically
> charged to handle usefully. (As I've said before, I don't think they say
> anything at all about drugs in Willow's story. They just use the popular
> language of drugs to tell their own story.)
Agreed.
> Hell, they rarely show anybody
> drunk, and tend to fuss about that. But kids in their environment - you
> know there's drugs. I don't think it's possible for some stoner sensibility
> not to sneak in. I cannot imagine Oz going through life drug free.
As usual, I didn't even think about Oz.
-AOQ
One Bit Shy
> On Dec 28, 8:16 pm, "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
>> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:68e60db2-e725-4069...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>> > It's certainly something that's set up. Of course, as I'm arguing in
>> > other cases (Giles, Xander's half of that episode you like so much),
>>
>> What episode? The Yoko Factor? Xander wasn't half of that. Something
>> else?
>
> "Hell's Bells." You certainly can't argue that they weren't at least
> *trying* to set up Xander's side of the ending.
Oh, that episode. -duh- Of course that's what you were talking about.
Sure they were trying to set up Xander's side of the ending. I haven't
meant to suggest otherwise. But that wasn't enough to stop him until the
hellmouth worked its mojo and brought his fears to life.
> I realized that my response to this was degenerating into nonsense,
Hey, you're encroaching on my territory.
Did my meanderings on Star Trek make sense? You're much more the ST fan
than I.
OBS
Arbitrar Of Quality
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in messagenews:da7e5aea-31a4-420b...@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Dec 28, 8:16 pm, "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> >> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in
> >> messagenews:68e60db2-e725-4069...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > It's certainly something that's set up. Of course, as I'm arguing in
> >> > other cases (Giles, Xander's half of that episode you like so much),
>
> >> What episode? The Yoko Factor? Xander wasn't half of that. Something
> >> else?
>
> > "Hell's Bells." You certainly can't argue that they weren't at least
> > *trying* to set up Xander's side of the ending.
>
> Oh, that episode. -duh- Of course that's what you were talking about.
>
> Sure they were trying to set up Xander's side of the ending. I haven't
> meant to suggest otherwise. But that wasn't enough to stop him until the
> hellmouth worked its mojo and brought his fears to life.
I wasn't suggesting you suggesting otherwise. The original point was
just an example of my argument that an attempt to lay the foundation
for a big moment doesn't necessarily mean that it's been adequately
set up, only that an attempt has been made. So one can disagree about
how convincing the actions of Giles or Xander or whomever are without
any disagreement about whether or not it came out of nowhere or was
part of the show's plan. I was wondering whether anyone would try to
turn that around on me when I talked about how meticulously Willow's
early-S6 arc was put together.
> > I realized that my response to this was degenerating into nonsense,
>
> Hey, you're encroaching on my territory.
>
> Did my meanderings on Star Trek make sense? You're much more the ST fan
> than I.
Yeah, pretty much. Don't agree with everything, but it made sense. I
have somewhat different impressions of what TNG brought to the table
than you do, although the group dynamic is certainly part of it, and
tend not to be very bothered by production values of old low-budget
shows,
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
be very like the Messiah to typify Him, and very contrary not to be
suspected witnesses.
664. Typical.--God made use of the lust of the Jews to make them minister to
Jesus Christ, who brought the remedy for their lust.
665. Charity is not a figurative precept. It is dreadful to say that Jesus
Christ, who came to take away types in order to establish the truth, came
only to establish the type of charity, in order to take away the existing
reality which was there before.
"If the light be darkness, how great is that darkness!"
666. Fascination. Somnum suum.118 Figura hujus mundi.119
The Eucharist. Comedes panem tuum.120 Panem nostrum.121
Inimici Dei terram lingent.122 Sinners lick the dust, that is to say, love
earthly pleasures.
The Old Testament contains the types of future joy, and the New contains the
means of arriving at it. The types were of joy; the means of penitence; and
nevertheless the Paschal Lamb was eaten with bitter herbs, cum
amaritudinibus.123
Singularis sum ego donec transeam.124 Jesus Christ before His death was
almost the only martyr.
667. Typical.--The expressions sword, shield. Potentissime.[125]
668. We are estranged only by departing from charity. Our prayers and our
virtues are abominable before God, if they are not the prayers and the
virtues of Jesus Christ. And our sins will never be the object of mercy, but
of the justice of God, if they are not Jesus Christ. He has adopted our
sins, and has us into union, for virtues are His own, and sins are foreign
to Him; while virtues are foreign to us, and our sins are our own.
Let us change the rule which we have hitherto chosen for judging what is
good. We had our own will as our rule. Let us now take the will of God; all
that He wills is good and right t
One Bit Shy
84Office of the Holy Virgin. "Make me worthy."
[85]Matthew, 7:7, "Ask and it shall be given you."
86Is. 45:15.
[87]John 8:30-33. "Many believed on him. Then Jesus said: 'If ye continue...
then ye are my disciples indeed, and the truth shall make you free.' They
answered him: 'We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man.'"
88Rev. 22:11. "He that is righteous, let him be righteous still."
[89]Circumcidentes cor. Rom. 2. "Circumcision is that of the heart."
901 Cor. 15:33. "Evil communications corrupt good manners."
91"What they have found by their curiosity, they have lost by their pride."
Quod curiositate invenerunt, superbia perdiderunt. St. Augustine, Sermon
cxli.
921 Cor. 1:21. "Which... by wisdom knew not... it pleased God by the
foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."
93St. Bernard, Sermones in Cantica Canticorum, lxxxiv. "The better one is,
the worse one becomes, if one attributes the cause of this goodness to one's
self."
[94]Ibid. "Meriting blows more than kisses, I fear not, because I love."
95John 11:33. Et turbarit seipsum. "And he troubled himself."
96Matt. 26:46. "Let us be going."
[97]Matt. 18:2. "Jesus went forth."
98Gen. 3:5. "Ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
[99]John 20:17. "Touch me not."
100Allusion to John 6:56; 1:47; 8:36; 6:32. "True disciple; an Israelite
indeed; free indeed; true bread."
101In discipulis meis. Isaiah 8:16. "Seal the law among my disciples."
[102]Is. 45:15.
1031 Cor. 1:17. "Lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."
104"Rend your heart."
105Ps. 9:14
mariposas rand mair fheal
meat."
163Is. 49:6. "It is a light thing that thou shouldst be my servant," etc.
164Luke 2:32. "A light to lighten the Gentiles."
165Ps. 167:20. "He hath not dealt so with any nation."
166Matt. 26:27. "Drink ye all of it."
167Rom. 5:12. "for that all have sinned."
168Luke 12:32. "Fear not little flock."
169Phil. 2:12. "With fear and trembling."
170Mark 9:37. "Whosoever receiveth me, receiveth not me, but him that sent
me."
171Mark 13:32. "No one knows, neither the Son, but the Father."
172"Clouds shadowed over the light."
173Mark 1:5. "All the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all
baptized of him."
174Mark 4:12. "Lest they should be converted, and their sins should be
forgiven them."
[175]Matt. 26:50. "Friend, wherefore art thou come?"
[176]Ps. 2:1, 2. "Why do the heathen rage... and the rulers of the earth...
against the Lord."
177Is. 8:14. "For a sanctuary and for a rock of offence."
178John 3:2. "We know that thou art a teacher come from God; for no man can
do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him."
[179]John. 15:24 "If I had not done... they had not had sin."
[180]Matt. 12:25; Luke 11:17. "Every kingdom divided against itself."
181Luke 11:20. "If with the finger of God... the kingdom of God is come upon
you."
[182]St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica.
183"But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed
not on him: that the saying of Esaias the prophet migh
Horace LaBadie
hath blinded their eyes."
184John 12:41. "These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake
of him."
1851 Cor. 1:22, 23. "For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after
wisdom: but we preach Christ crucified."
[186]"But full of signs, full of wisdom; you the Jesuits, what you wish is a
Christ not crucified, a religion without miracles and without wisdom."
18710:26 "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep."
188"Not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye... were filled."
18916. "This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the Sabbath day.
Others said: How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles?"
[190]John 9:17, 33. "What sayest thou of him? He said, He is a prophet. If
this man were not of God, he could do nothing."
191Mark 9:39. Nemo est enim qui faciat. "There is no man which shall do a
miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me."
192Ps. 138:24. "And see if there be any wicked way in me."
193Luke 22:66. "Art thou the Christ? tell us."
194John 5:36. "The works which the father hath given me to finish... bear
witness of me." John 10:26-27. "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my
sheep... My sheep hear my voice.
[195]"What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee. (They
do not say: What doctrine do you preach?)"
196John 3:2. "No man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be
with him."
[197]"The Lord, making manifest his presence, upholdeth them that are his
own portion."
198"And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven."
199Matt. 12:39. "An evil generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no
sign be given to it."
200"And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, why doth this generation
seek after a sign
Arbitrar Of Quality
could be presented to his mind? Would it not be a deprivation of his delight
for him to occupy his soul with the thought of how to adjust his steps to
the cadence of an air, or of how to throw a ball skilfully, instead of
leaving it to enjoy quietly the contemplation of the majestic glory which
encompasses him? Let us make the trial; let us leave a king all alone to
reflect on himself quite at leisure, without any gratification of the
senses, without any care in his mind, without society; and we will see that
a king without diversion is a man full of wretchedness. So this is carefully
avoided, and near the persons of kings there never fail to be a great number
of people who see to it that amusement follows business, and who watch all
the time of their leisure to supply them with delights and games, so that
there is no blank in it. In fact, kings are surrounded with persons who are
wonderfully attentive in taking care that the king be not alone and in a
state to think of himself, knowing well that he will be miserable, king
though he be, if he meditate on self.
In all this I am not talking of Christian kings as Christians, but only as
kings.
143. Diversion.--Men are entrusted from infancy with the care of their
honour, their property, their friends, and even with the property and the
honour of their friends. They are overwhelmed with business, with the study
of languages, and with physical exercise; and they are made to understand
that they cannot be happy unless their health, their honour, their fortune
and that of their friends be in go