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Revisiting AOQ Review 1-2: "The Harvest"

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Apteryx

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Mar 15, 2007, 4:34:50 PM3/15/07
to
> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
> Date: Jan 4 2006, 5:22 pm
> Subject: AOQ Review 1-2: "The Harvest"
> To: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer

> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season One, Episode 2: "The Harvest"
> (or "next!")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: John T. Kretchmer
>
> "Welcome To The Hellmouth," _BTVS_'s very first episode, ended on
> a cliffhanger. "The Harvest" resolves it in literally about three
> minutes. The cross introduced in "Hellmouth" comes into play at an
> opportune time, Buffy saves the worthwhile 2/3 of her new circle of
> friends, roll opening credits. Huh.
>
> Dramatically speaking, there's really no reason at all that I can
> think of that "Hellmouth" shouldn't have ended with Jesse getting
> kidnapped and our heroes escaping to regroup. It literally feels as
> if
> "Hellmouth" ran a few minutes overtime and the ending got dumped
> into the next episode. Maybe Joss was just trying to be
> unconventional, but dramatic conventions generally exist for a reason,
> and being different for its own sake doesn't always work. If
> you're going to end an episode in ZOMG CRISIS! Mode, it's going to
> be a letdown if said crisis ends so quickly. This is basic common
> sense.

I think this was pretty well covered in comments at the time. Joss likes the
classics.


> [Note: The above was my original new-viewer reaction. Now that I
> know
> that WttH and TH began life as separate stories... well, makes sense.
> This smash-together is less than ideal.]
>
>>From there, "The Harvest" settles down into a rhythm of Sunnydale
>
> High scenes alternating with our villains acting all sinister (and
> Jesse doing his job of standing around looking stupid). Actually,
> "The Harvest" improves on the pilot in an important aspect here -
> the scenes with the Master have some semblance of comedic timing now.
> Even when the Master isn't actually saying anything one-linerish, the
> little pauses he throws into his Villain Speeches make them sound more
> _Buffy_ and less B-movie. This isn't to say that I like the
> character or anything (seriously, are all villains contractually
> obligated to laugh maniacally when things are going well, yell
> "nooooo!" when they're not, and beat up their servants during
> quiet moments?), but there's progress being made. Actually, the
> award for Most Improved Vampire goes to the vessel-boy, Lucas, who was
> worthless in "Hellmouth" but had two of "The Harvest"'s best
> deadpans: effortlessly ticking off the last date he was defeated, and
> the classic "Next!" while sucking blood in The Bronze. Naturally,
> he dies just as he's getting interesting, but hey, afterlife ain't
> fair.

He also gets the gift of the line "Ladies and Gentlemen! There is no cause
for alarm. Actually, there is cause for alarm. It just won't do any good."
But I'm not sure his delivery of it was the best possible.

And his staking ("There's something you forgot about, too. Sunrise! It's in
about nine hours, moron!") is a great moment too, although obviously more
for Buffy than for him

>
> [Some people responded to the last review and convincingly argued that
> the Master is MEANT to be cheesy and awful, as a riff on old-style
> monster movies. That's quite possible. But let me just say that I
> can
> see three problems with this approach:
> 1) It'd be nice to see a wink or nod somewhere within the show saying
> "yes, we realize how silly this is." Sad to say, parody doesn't
> necessarily speak for itself, no matter how "obvious" it is.
> 2) Our heroes have to take the Master and company seriously because
> of
> the damage they've been able to cause. It limits the potential for
> drama when your villains are ridiculous from the viewer's perspective
> but the characters act scared of them. Buffy and company are
> diminished by having to play along.
> 3) It's one joke, and after two episodes of constantly hammering on
> it, it's becoming a very tired joke.]
>
> In the high-school scenes, things start out promisingly enough with
> Giles being "rather British," and Xander convincingly going from
> disbelief over "having a conversation with vampires in it" to his
> desire to get involved. The problem, as Buffy points out, is that
> however loyal and courageous he might be, Buffy's the Slayer and
> he's not. Any normal kids our hero befriends are going to be way out
> of their league; I'd rather the show continue to play up that dynamic
> rather than just loading them up with stakes and holy water. We'll
> see.

That would be good.

> The rest of the school stuff, though, is much weaker than in the
> premiere. They're divided between Willow and Giles sitting around and
> blandly worrying, and Cordelia. I don't have a clue why Cordelia is a
> major character at this point, so I do hope Joss has some sort of plan
> in mind. "The Harvest" is actually a step back for her: the Cordelia
> from WttH didn't seem like a moron, and was capable of BTVS-style
> wordplay. Now she's an idiot. The scene in which Willow tricks her
> into deleting her program is one of those moments where I laughed at
> the time and liked it less the more I thought about it. Was anyone in
> 1997 really unaware of the "Delete" key?

Cordy's not dumb, but I don't think it's particularly implausible that she
would have a blind spot for computers. Certainly Giles isn't dumb either,
but he seems to have no affinity for the "dread machine". And remember that
Cordy here is an antagonist, and a comic one at that. Villains can be as
dumb as they need to be for the hero to win, and this scene is all about
Willow getting a win for all the put downs from Cordy.


> It's impressive how much
> time
> the episode spends following her around for apparently the sole
> purpose
> of mocking how popular kids (supposedly) act. So let me pretend my
> words can influence the content of the DVDs and say to the writing
> staff: okay, Cordelia is stupid and shallow, we get it. Ha ha. Move
> on, please.
>
> Maybe the reason so many characters and elements get shortchanged is
> that "The Harvest" is really crammed full of stuff. There are three
> major action sequences, and plenty of stuff between them from the
> perspectives of several sets of characters. As a result, the pacing
> is
> off and everything happens faster than it feels like it should. It
> doesn't help that the chase in the sewers is a badly-shot mess, and
> the
> climactic fight in The Bronze isn't much better in that regard.
>
> Speaking of messes, what the hell was the deal with the ending? If
> there was any explanation for why everyone "forgot" most of what
> happened and went on with their lives as normal, I missed it. And
> even
> if everyone forgot, what about the dead people? Shouldn't this have a
> major impact on a one-Starbuck's town like Sunnydale? I hope I missed
> something (it'd have to have been something really brief, though...),
> because the alternatives aren't good: either no one's bothering to
> think this stuff through, or they believe that they can hold off on
> explaining away apparent oversights and viewers won't mind having to
> wait weeks for it to make sense.
>
> I don't want to suggest that "The Harvest" is a total loss. Besides
> being entertaining enough, it has three very nice moments centering
> around the title character. The first is the scene between Buffy and
> Flutie at the fence. It's funny, of course, since Flutie's in it, but
> it also demonstrates how ready Buffy is to shift into Superhero Mode
> on
> the spur of the moment. The second is between Buffy and her mom, not
> so much for the scene itself but just for the fact that Buffy gets
> grounded. Sixteen seems a little old for that, but it's not unheard
> of. The Slayer is still a kid living under her parent(s?)' roof, and
> is bound by their rules (in theory, anyway). Like Shuggie put it,
> "being a teen feels like you against the world," and here it's
> literally true. And then soon after that, we see Buffy's poise and
> confidence when confronting "Vessel-Boy," like she's completely used
> to
> that kind of thing. We realize that she's probably killed dozens of
> vampires in her short life. SMG does a good job playing
> old-beyond-her-years, and it's a good way to write the character.

Yep. Like she's a schoolgirl with a knack for saving the world.

> And then there's Angel. He gets a name and one substantial scene,
> which is intriguing. Buffy's hostility towards him is overplayed a
> bit, but the rest of the scene works, particularly her mocking his
> "wise old man routine" and his matter-of-fact admission that he's
> scared. Granted, I'm not seeing things with totally unspoiled eyes
> here since I do in fact know that Angel will be kinda an important
> character in the Buffyverse.

The "hostility" is meant to be overplayed (by Buffy, not by SMG) to make it
plain to anyone who hasn't been spoiled that there is heat there. Liked the
softening at the end of "Do you know what it's like to have a friend? ....
That wasn't supposed to be a stumper."

> Would I still be intrigued if it were
> 1997? Probably. In any case, I don't know where they're going with
> this character yet, and I'm interested in watching more and seeing for
> myself.
>
> So....
>
> One-sentence summary: Disappointingly generic compared to the
> premiere, with hints of something better.
>
> AOQ rating: Decent

There is a bit too much less-good action here for it to rise to the heights
of WTTH, but it retains enough momentum to be Good for me. Its my 46th
favourite BtVS episode, 7th best in season 1.

Apteryx

Arbitrar Of Quality

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Mar 16, 2007, 3:47:30 PM3/16/07
to
Re-watching, I was struck again by how *boring* this episode is in
places. I certainly wouldn't call "The Harvest" a bad episode - Buffy
makes a good badass hero, in her element during the climax, the others
have some good lines, and we get a taste of what vampire and vampire-
fighting life is about. But overall it's a bit of a mess, and drags
in a way I don't normally associate with BTVS. The action sequences
are mostly poorly lit and clunky, but what really slows things down is
the reams of exposition and people sitting around.

That's paired with the fact that that this isn't a show where the
exposition is all that interesting, given Joss's lax approach to world-
building. My love of the device of Sunnydale Forgettyitis would spark
some long discussions, mostly with only Scythe and me as
participants. It just grates at me that, at this point in the show's
life (thankfully, the mythology would eventually expand, but S1 was
meant to be self-contained), the only reason we're ever supposed to be
given for how Buffy can so easily keep things secret is "everyone in
the world is single-mindedly devoted to ignoring what they see in
front of them." Not in a world populated by realistic people. It
speaks of the shoddier side of the 'verse we're spending so much time
explaining.

WTTH and TH are kind of a unit, but I've always seen a sharp
distinction between them. The first episode speaks to the potential
of the show at its best. The second episode is a thoroughly average
superhero show which speaks to the potential of the series at its most
ordinary.

At one point during the commentary, Joss, who hasn't always been the
best at filling silences anyway, stops speaking entirely for several
minutes. I FFed until I heard him again, so maybe he explained it.
What's the story there?

On Mar 15, 3:34 pm, "Apteryx" <apte...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> > From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>

Actually, the
> > award for Most Improved Vampire goes to the vessel-boy, Lucas, who was
> > worthless in "Hellmouth" but had two of "The Harvest"'s best
> > deadpans: effortlessly ticking off the last date he was defeated, and
> > the classic "Next!" while sucking blood in The Bronze. Naturally,
> > he dies just as he's getting interesting, but hey, afterlife ain't
> > fair.
>
> He also gets the gift of the line "Ladies and Gentlemen! There is no cause
> for alarm. Actually, there is cause for alarm. It just won't do any good."
> But I'm not sure his delivery of it was the best possible.

I don't know quite why I was so enamored with him the first time
either; I guess any S1 villains who show a glimmer of personality
seemed vivid and exciting (See Darla, although she sparked much more
in WTTH than in TH).

> And his staking ("There's something you forgot about, too. Sunrise! It's in
> about nine hours, moron!") is a great moment too, although obviously more
> for Buffy than for him

A classic. And worth re-using after being inexplicably rejected in
the movie. In a totally unrelated note, apparently one of my favorite
exchanges from Adams's _The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy_ ("It's
times like this I wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I
was young." "What'd she say?" "I don't know! I didn't listen!")
spent years trying to find a home.

> > And then there's Angel. He gets a name and one substantial scene,
> > which is intriguing. Buffy's hostility towards him is overplayed a
> > bit, but the rest of the scene works, particularly her mocking his
> > "wise old man routine" and his matter-of-fact admission that he's
> > scared. Granted, I'm not seeing things with totally unspoiled eyes
> > here since I do in fact know that Angel will be kinda an important
> > character in the Buffyverse.
>
> The "hostility" is meant to be overplayed (by Buffy, not by SMG) to make it
> plain to anyone who hasn't been spoiled that there is heat there. Liked the
> softening at the end of "Do you know what it's like to have a friend? ....
> That wasn't supposed to be a stumper."

That makes a little more sense. But of course, you know how I
generally feel about love/hate dynamics...

> > One-sentence summary: Disappointingly generic compared to the
> > premiere, with hints of something better.
>
> > AOQ rating: Decent

I stand by that.

-AOQ

One Bit Shy

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Mar 16, 2007, 6:14:34 PM3/16/07
to
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174074450.6...@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

> Re-watching, I was struck again by how *boring* this episode is in
> places. I certainly wouldn't call "The Harvest" a bad episode - Buffy
> makes a good badass hero, in her element during the climax, the others
> have some good lines, and we get a taste of what vampire and vampire-
> fighting life is about. But overall it's a bit of a mess, and drags
> in a way I don't normally associate with BTVS. The action sequences
> are mostly poorly lit and clunky, but what really slows things down is
> the reams of exposition and people sitting around.

IMO, the episode is very close to bad. Probably the worst produced show of
the entire run. The music is awful - heavy handed and obvious. The
exposition in the first half just won't quit. Leave for a second and then
come right back to it. It's handled with little of the deftness we saw in
WTTH. There's a lot less humor too, and not generally as funny. The acting
is stiffer - a bit of a disappointment after the natural performances of
WTTH.

Worst of all is the action. Early on Buffy is shown running in a totally
"girly" fashion completely opposed to the more athletic style we will become
accustomed to. Shortly thereafter she will stake a vampire with a motion
more akin to tossing away an icky dead mouse than any sort of killing blow -
probably the worst staking she will ever make. Which is nothing compared to
the dreadful mid-episode action where the vampires are depicted as lurching
around in slow motion like mindless zombies rather than the killing machines
they become.

The action at the Bronze improves, thank heavens, with the nifty cymbal
Frisbee and some good one on one with Luke. But that has it weak moments
too - notably Buffy's ridiculous entrance (complete with stupid music) and
subsequent cartwheel to the stage - all done with everybody standing around
(looking at their watches?) waiting for her to get to it already.

It's possible that the best thing about the episode is that it set the bar
so low for what was to follow, giving lots of room to continually better
itself - which it will do action-wise up through S5.

There are some saving graces though. This episode includes the first visual
moment that sticks in my head as classic. That would be vamp faced Darla
skipping and dancing towards the Bronze in front of a gang of vampires to
the beat of foreboding music.


> WTTH and TH are kind of a unit, but I've always seen a sharp
> distinction between them. The first episode speaks to the potential
> of the show at its best. The second episode is a thoroughly average
> superhero show which speaks to the potential of the series at its most
> ordinary.

As my comments above suggest, I pretty much agree with that.

However, the real saving grace of the episode is how it combines with the
first to set up the larger story. There's a structural element that I will
speak of elsewhere. The biggest is cementing the characters. The first
episode gave everybody their personality. It also gave Buffy her core
character tension (the Slayer trap) for the series. Less obviously it gave
Giles his tension as Buffy shows herself to be a "difficult" Slayer, but
also one who succeeds in ways he's not prepared for. Buffy didn't sense the
vampire in the Bronze as Giles said she should. But she still identified
him, thereby showing Giles that he doesn't know as much as he thinks he
does. A little thing, but the start of him having to compromise with
Buffy - reflected at the end of this episode with his tacit agreement to the
notion of a Slayer with friends.

This episode introduces much of the tension within Xander. Losing Jesse (an
unfortunately weak character whose loss should have hung over everybody in
the future more than it did) and subsequent terse, "I don't like vampires,"
establish his hard line attitude that will lead to trouble with both Angel
and Spike. We are also introduced to his sense of inadequacy combined with
stubborn bravery as Buffy makes him stay behind - which he defies. In this
episode we see Willow dive into research, establishing her own special
relationship with Giles, and generally being excited by a whole world of
possibilities she didn't know about. Along with that we see the first
example of "naughty" Willow.

Those are a few big ones, but the two shows in combination have many more -
a huge array of "firsts" that are astounding for how many are built upon -
commonly for many years.

That's what redeems the episode for me - but only up to a Decent rating.
Without that, the episode would at least be Weak, if not outright Bad.

OBS


chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu

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Mar 16, 2007, 6:24:03 PM3/16/07
to
Apteryx <apt...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>> Date: Jan 4 2006, 5:22 pm
>> Subject: AOQ Review 1-2: "The Harvest"
>> To: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer

.
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
>>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season One, Episode 2: "The Harvest"
>> (or "next!")
>> Writer: Joss Whedon
>> Director: John T. Kretchmer
>>

.


>> Dramatically speaking, there's really no reason at all that I can
>> think of that "Hellmouth" shouldn't have ended with Jesse getting
>> kidnapped and our heroes escaping to regroup.

Other considerations aside, ending with a loss-and-regroup would have been
more of a downer. Joss felt free to experiment with downer endings later
in the series, but I can understand why he preferred an action cliffhanger
for the first episode.

>> In the high-school scenes, things start out promisingly enough with
>> Giles being "rather British," and Xander convincingly going from
>> disbelief over "having a conversation with vampires in it" to his
>> desire to get involved. The problem, as Buffy points out, is that
>> however loyal and courageous he might be, Buffy's the Slayer and
>> he's not.

I always enjoy his reply, "I knew you'd throw that back in my face." As
if it was something that they had first argued about years ago. But it's
a little unfortunate that Buffy and Xander get most of the good Buffyspeak
lines, leaving poor Willow mainly with straight dialogue. WTTH made much
better use of Willow's potential.

However, The Harvest does a better job of continuing WTTH's success in
another area: introducing elements that will continue as part of the
series for years to come. The Harvest's firsts are almost too numerous to
list, but they're too fun not to try:

-the first signs of affection between Buffy and Giles, when he says "Do I
have to tell you to be careful?" The look she gives him in return is
quite seet.

-the first examples of joking when deeply upset or terribly afraid: "It's
either this or chem class." "I don't like vampires. I'm going to take a
stand and say they're not good."

-the first time Willow stands up for herself and for Buffy (as well as the
first sign of a vengeful streak in her)

-the first cutting between parallel conversations. The Master in the
Hellmouth: "A Slayer." Xander in the library: "And that is?"

-the first group exposition/planning conversation and the first mystical
research session

-first appearance of Harmony (and is that a unicorn on her shirt?)

-the first use of the noun "slayage" and the verb "to dust."

-the first power walk, when our four heroes leave the library to head for
the Bronze. (Well, it's *kind* of a power walk, and was featured in the
credits through season 2.)

-the first villain-appearing-in-the-background-at-the-Bronze scene (Jesse,
presaging Spike in School Hard and Angel in Passion).

-the first long continuous take, comprising the whole first half of the
last scene

-the first Apocalypse

-the first use of phlebotinum

>> Maybe the reason so many characters and elements get shortchanged is
>> that "The Harvest" is really crammed full of stuff. There are three
>> major action sequences, and plenty of stuff between them from the
>> perspectives of several sets of characters. As a result, the pacing
>> is
>> off and everything happens faster than it feels like it should.

Yet ironically the fight scenes feel slower and longer than they should.
They just hadn't mastered the techniques to make an exciting fight scene
yet. (And I don't think the music in those scenes was very effective.)
There were at least a few cute gimmicks in the final fight, like the
pool-cue staking and the cymbal cam.

>> Speaking of messes, what the hell was the deal with the ending? If
>> there was any explanation for why everyone "forgot" most of what
>> happened and went on with their lives as normal, I missed it. And
>> even
>> if everyone forgot, what about the dead people? Shouldn't this have a
>> major impact on a one-Starbuck's town like Sunnydale?

I don't want to *defend* Sunnydale forgettyitis, but I would point out
that there's more to it than simply forgetting. A lot of it is more
rationalization, like explaining away a group of vampires as a drug gang,
than actual amnesia. I'm not saying that makes it significantly more
believable, but we should keep all these fine details clear.

>> around the title character. The first is the scene between Buffy and
>> Flutie at the fence. It's funny, of course, since Flutie's in it, but
>> it also demonstrates how ready Buffy is to shift into Superhero Mode
>> on
>> the spur of the moment.

This nice scene also features another example (two, really) of the
extremely lame lies Buffy comes up with when she needs a cover story at
short notice. The first, classic example came in WTTH, when Buffy says
that the gym she burned down was "full of vam-- asbestos."

>> The second is between Buffy and her mom, not
>> so much for the scene itself but just for the fact that Buffy gets
>> grounded.

Joyce getting her parenting advice from tapes ("The tapes all say I should
get used to saying it. No.") makes me suspect that she was originally
meant to be a bit ditzier than she had become by the end of season 2.

>> And then there's Angel. He gets a name and one substantial scene,
>> which is intriguing. Buffy's hostility towards him is overplayed a
>> bit, but the rest of the scene works, particularly her mocking his
>> "wise old man routine" and his matter-of-fact admission that he's
>> scared.

Angel's lightly sarcastic, taunting approach (both here and in the alley
in WTTH) will come to seem incongruous after the flashbacks in Becoming.
My way of making reconciling the two is to assume that Angel, just like
Buffy, is playing it hostile to cover up his budding infatuation.
Angel's hostility is more of a conscious pose than Buffy's, though, since
he already knows all the reasons why they should *not* fall in love. He
wants to keep Buffy at a distance to keep himself under control. His
taunts are also a sort of motivational tool: when he says "I'm scared,"
he's obviously challenging her to do better. I liked his mock-apologetic
look as he gives Buffy the sad news that he had thought she'd find the
tunnel entrance sooner.

A few more random notes:

-In WTTH Giles seemed baffled about how he can get through to Buffy at
all, let alone build a working relationship with her. I think this is the
reason Giles agrees to let them in on the secret world of Slayage: his
accepting Buffy's new friends makes her more willing to accept *him*.

-Buffy makes *lots* of karate-school "hyah!" noises while fighting and
jumping around. These don't disappear, but became much less common in
later episodes. Maybe they made Buffy seem too much like a normal person
who had taken some martial-arts classes, or maybe ME wanted to reduce the
amount of overdubbing SMG had to do when her stunt double is on the
screen.

-Giles tells Xander and Willow that if they see Jesse, it's not really
their friend, it's the thing that killed him. I think his real point here
is that they should not expect any mercy from Jesse, nor should they
hesitate to kill him if they can. It wasn't intended as a more general
statement about how much of the person lives on in the vampire. But
Jesse, in his ephemeral way, sets the pattern for Buffyverse vampires as
being different from, but based on and influenced by, the humans they once
were.

-Xander's staking of Jesse is often regarded as one of the worst ever --
the stake goes in *way* above where the heart is. But in NB's defense, I
think it's possible that the director told him to hold the stake there.
If he had been holding it at heart level, it would have been hidden behind
his torso and left arm.

-Favorite image: The vampires striding out of the shadows toward the
Bronze, with Darla dancing gleefully at their head. That was one of the
moments that made me think "yeah, I'm really falling in love with this
show."

-Favorite line: "Anyway, he had this really, really thick neck, and all
I had was a little, little Exacto knife...."

>> AOQ rating: Decent

As with WTTH, I like The Harvest so much for showing us the beginnings of
what I'll love later in the series, that it's hard to judge it on its own
merits. I'd say the slow sections and weak action scenes are balanced out
by a few good scenes and a lot of fun lines, leaving me to agree with the
Decent overall.


--Chris

______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.

chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 6:53:26 PM3/16/07
to

And now the inevitable corrections:

chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:

> -the first signs of affection between Buffy and Giles, when he says "Do I
> have to tell you to be careful?" The look she gives him in return is
> quite seet.

"Seet" being short for "sweet." Maybe that's not the right word, but it
looks like Buffy hears the genuine concern in Giles's voice and it means
something to her.

> -In WTTH Giles seemed baffled about how he can get through to Buffy at
> all, let alone build a working relationship with her. I think this is the
> reason Giles agrees to let them in on the secret world of Slayage:

"Them" referring to Willow and Xander, of course.

chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu

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Mar 16, 2007, 7:00:43 PM3/16/07
to
Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:

> At one point during the commentary, Joss, who hasn't always been the
> best at filling silences anyway, stops speaking entirely for several
> minutes. I FFed until I heard him again, so maybe he explained it.
> What's the story there?

I don't remember him giving an explanation (admittedly my memory is not
exactly infallible). Maybe he just got so caught up in watching that he
forget he was supposed to be speaking. He does that in one or two other
commentaries; the AtS episode A Hole in the World is one example that I
watched recently. (In that one Amy Acker and Alexis Denisof do the same
thing.) Or it could be that he started the commentary with a list of
things he wanted to say, and finished talking about one of them a little
too early in the episode to start the next one. Joss usually seems
articulate enough in his commentaries to make me think he's figured out
what he wants to say ahead of time.

One Bit Shy

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 7:00:51 PM3/16/07
to
I have one more essay following up on the one from WTTH. (I don't have any
prepared for subsequent episodes, so don't worry.)


> SMG does a good job playing
> old-beyond-her-years, and it's a good way to write the character.

Yes, it is - and something we'll see again later. But in the meantime, how
old beyond her years does she seem in the next few episodes?

Here's the essay:

Big Stuff

In WTTH I referred to the first “magic moment” of the series when Buffy sees
Willow being taken away by a vampire, and chooses to go after her, instantly
dropping her argument with Giles about whether to be The Slayer, so that she
could be it, when her friend needs it.

This is Buffy’s first attempt to reconcile the conflict between being The
Slayer and leading a normal life. Her solution is to marry the two by being
The Slayer for her friends in need. She slays in service of the life she
wants. In The Harvest this reconciliation is clearly shown at the end when
a happy Buffy walks with her circle of friends – a circle that includes
Giles, her Watcher and constant reminder of her calling.

I don't think this is often recognized as being Buffy's first idea for
solving the Slayer trap. (Perhaps because its greatest weakness is not
addressing the death part of the trap.) But it is - and it's a very
important solution. In that moment when she drops her argument with Giles
and runs after Willow she establishes an ideal for her calling that she will
stick with. This same ideal will conflict with the Slayer tradition,
creating its own set of conflicts. Conflicts that are not merely disputes
about what Buffy wants, but real challenges to the idea of the Slayer. For
Buffy's way will often prove better than the tradition.

In essence, Buffy accepted her calling. But on her terms. And her terms
are better than the traditional ones. Right off the bat, she starts the
ball rolling that will bring down the Watcher construct and personally
torment Giles. She is now The Slayer with friends.

That is Buffy’s distinguishing quality that separates her from all previous
Slayers. She fights for and with friends. They fight for and with her. It
makes her stronger – there will be many times that her friends give her the
necessary extra power to win. Perhaps more importantly, it’s the thing that
grounds her in humanity and prevents her calling from consuming her.

Closely linked to that is Buffy’s determination to act with her heart. That’s
what led her to instantly cast aside her doubts about being The Slayer when
she saw Willow in trouble. It will also lead her to defy Watcher teaching
and Slayer history to save the ones she loves rather than bow to the
expediency of an abstract greater good. In time Buffy will come to believe
that she must stubbornly follow her heart and conscience at all costs or be
destroyed. To her, any concession will corrupt her – and, perversely, make
her a worse Slayer.

-----

As important as her decision is, it's still understated in its play. It’s
not presented as something momentous, but rather as innocent. Easy even.
Something else is happening here as well. Joss has snuck in and gently
tapped the reset button, wiping out the slightly cynical Buffy of WTTH that
already knew what being The Slayer does to her life, and replacing her with
a much more innocent Buffy that still has to learn that lesson.

It was quite useful and effective to have Buffy herself lay out the core
character conflict of The Slayer, to confront a resulting crisis, and then
to reach an initial solution. It sure makes life easier for the viewers if
they understand the concept right from the start.

But now it’s time to take a step back and show the makeup of that conflict.
The primary underlying story of S1 (there really isn’t an arc per se) is
Buffy gradually learning the true cost of being the Slayer. Incrementally
she will see her options narrow and her freedom to live normally taken away,
starting with the small stuff that doesn’t seem to matter that much, and
building until the season finale when the cost is her very life.

To tell that story properly, it should start with innocence, not the knowing
Buffy of WTTH. So Joss cheats a little by making the first solution seem so
easy and obvious as to effectively wipe away the concern. Problem? What
problem?

This is not a criticism. It’s extremely well done, allowing the series to
have it both ways while seamlessly moving the story forward. Joss knows his
craft well.

Joss is also clever enough to leave the essence of Buffy’s decision alone.
Yes, she’s reverted to innocence as far as understanding how being The
Slayer will steal her life. But the marriage of her calling to the personal
connections of her real life remains.

-----

There’s another reason for the reset. For, you see, WTTH & The Harvest are
a rehearsal for Prophecy Girl. By rehearsal I mean the same plot. Just a
little gentler.

Buffy hates what being The Slayer does to her life.
Buffy quits being The Slayer.
People die.
Friends are in peril.
Buffy chooses to be Slayer after all.
Buffy experiences a setback.
Buffy recovers and triumphs in the final battle.
(With a little help from her friends.)
Happy Buffy walks off with her friends.

Many of the details correspond as well.

Angel provides key information to decipher what’s going on.
Buffy’s crisis of faith is played out in a dispute with Giles.
Buffy rejects Xander.
Xander chases after Buffy anyway.
Xander helps Buffy when things go wrong for her.

(That last might not be obvious. In Prophecy Girl, of course, Xander brings
Buffy back to life. In The Harvest it’s the silly flashlight that he brings
with him. It helps them escape to the surface.)

There are probably other corresponding details, but this should be
sufficient to show how closely the stories match up.

This is an extreme form of foreshadowing that will become a characteristic
of the series. Not generally so extensive as to consume two full episodes,
but plot rehearsals none the less.

Another example will appear in When She Was Bad – the S2 season opener –
which also points to how Joss likes to use season openers as special
foreshadowing events for the season to come. They won’t all use the
rehearsal technique, but they will be heavily infused with content that will
resonate throughout the year. (Except maybe for S4’s the Freshman.)

OBS

One Bit Shy

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 7:13:04 PM3/16/07
to
<chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu> wrote in message
news:12vm683...@corp.supernews.com...

> -In WTTH Giles seemed baffled about how he can get through to Buffy at
> all, let alone build a working relationship with her. I think this is the
> reason Giles agrees to let them in on the secret world of Slayage: his
> accepting Buffy's new friends makes her more willing to accept *him*.

Buffy certainly is a challenge to Giles, but he does have a pair of eyes.
He's witnessed Buffy go from resisting her calling to complete engagement in
it because of Willow's abduction and Jesse's death. He can see her
friendships inspiring her to her calling. Don't mess with what works.

Giles does want Buffy to listen to him. But the first task is getting her
to be The Slayer all together. That's what her friends did for Buffy, and
Giles is too smart to get in the way of that. Alas, that makes for the
first compromise by Giles and the start of his own struggle with what being
a Watcher means.

OBS


mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 7:30:07 PM3/16/07
to
In article <12vm942...@news.supernews.com>,

"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:

> <chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu> wrote in message
> news:12vm683...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > -In WTTH Giles seemed baffled about how he can get through to Buffy at
> > all, let alone build a working relationship with her. I think this is the
> > reason Giles agrees to let them in on the secret world of Slayage: his
> > accepting Buffy's new friends makes her more willing to accept *him*.
>
> Buffy certainly is a challenge to Giles, but he does have a pair of eyes.
> He's witnessed Buffy go from resisting her calling to complete engagement in
> it because of Willow's abduction and Jesse's death. He can see her
> friendships inspiring her to her calling. Don't mess with what works.

giles has no children of its own
and this appears to be his first field mission
and not being buffys original watcher
likely he has never had slayer in training
its been all books and study so far

now he has to apply theory to practise
as the only slightly less goofy wesley

the commentary also points out that giles is in the traditional horror movie
(like the opening organ of the theme)
while buffy cant be bothered with that (the nerfherder part of the theme)

> Giles is too smart to get in the way of that. Alas, that makes for the
> first compromise by Giles and the start of his own struggle with what being
> a Watcher means.

the world is definitely doomed

this is a long way from the willow buffy and xander of the chosen
its also a long way from the giles of the chosen

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo

Arnold Kim

unread,
Mar 17, 2007, 12:52:13 AM3/17/07
to

"Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:etcalc$q80$1...@aioe.org...

>> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>> Date: Jan 4 2006, 5:22 pm
>> Subject: AOQ Review 1-2: "The Harvest"
>> To: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer

>> In the high-school scenes, things start out promisingly enough with


>> Giles being "rather British," and Xander convincingly going from
>> disbelief over "having a conversation with vampires in it" to his
>> desire to get involved. The problem, as Buffy points out, is that
>> however loyal and courageous he might be, Buffy's the Slayer and
>> he's not. Any normal kids our hero befriends are going to be way out
>> of their league; I'd rather the show continue to play up that dynamic
>> rather than just loading them up with stakes and holy water. We'll
>> see.
>
> That would be good.

It seemed to get to the point by the end of the series that anyone with a
stake can kill a vampire...

>> The rest of the school stuff, though, is much weaker than in the
>> premiere. They're divided between Willow and Giles sitting around and
>> blandly worrying, and Cordelia.

One thing I should add, and I don't know if anyone mentioned at the time, is
that according to the commentary on the episode, "The Harvest" came up short
in terms of time, so a couple of scenes were added as padding (Xander and
Willow and the "rain of toads" discussion, Angel's little appearance at the
end, and maybe one or two more).

>> I don't want to suggest that "The Harvest" is a total loss. Besides
>> being entertaining enough, it has three very nice moments centering
>> around the title character. The first is the scene between Buffy and
>> Flutie at the fence. It's funny, of course, since Flutie's in it, but
>> it also demonstrates how ready Buffy is to shift into Superhero Mode
>> on
>> the spur of the moment. The second is between Buffy and her mom, not
>> so much for the scene itself but just for the fact that Buffy gets
>> grounded. Sixteen seems a little old for that, but it's not unheard
>> of. The Slayer is still a kid living under her parent(s?)' roof, and
>> is bound by their rules (in theory, anyway). Like Shuggie put it,
>> "being a teen feels like you against the world," and here it's
>> literally true. And then soon after that, we see Buffy's poise and
>> confidence when confronting "Vessel-Boy," like she's completely used
>> to
>> that kind of thing. We realize that she's probably killed dozens of
>> vampires in her short life. SMG does a good job playing
>> old-beyond-her-years, and it's a good way to write the character.
>
> Yep. Like she's a schoolgirl with a knack for saving the world.

I always thought it was a great idea to start the series with her already
having been the slayer for some time, and just moving into a new
environment. First of all, I love the fact that she has this history, even
though she's starting off on a clean slate, and it puts us in her "inner
circle" as viewers, but I also love that she has, from the beginning, this
"been there, done that" attitude about vampires.

Also, I should add that the episode had a great visual metaphor for Buffy
herself- Buffy's little trunk- where she opens it and it looks like it's
filled with some of the various odds and ends that a normal teenage girl
might have in such a chest, but then she opens up the inner compartment, and
its full of crosses, stakes, holy water, etc. I love that moment.

Arnold Kim


Arnold Kim

unread,
Mar 17, 2007, 1:20:02 AM3/17/07
to

<chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu> wrote in message
news:12vm683...@corp.supernews.com...
> Apteryx <apt...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>>> Date: Jan 4 2006, 5:22 pm
>>> Subject: AOQ Review 1-2: "The Harvest"
>>> To: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer
>

You forgot one:

-the first badass "Buffy glare", when she scares off the last of the
vampires at the Bronze (and is shown at the end of the credits through
season 2)

>>> Speaking of messes, what the hell was the deal with the ending? If
>>> there was any explanation for why everyone "forgot" most of what
>>> happened and went on with their lives as normal, I missed it. And
>>> even
>>> if everyone forgot, what about the dead people? Shouldn't this have a
>>> major impact on a one-Starbuck's town like Sunnydale?
>
> I don't want to *defend* Sunnydale forgettyitis, but I would point out
> that there's more to it than simply forgetting. A lot of it is more
> rationalization, like explaining away a group of vampires as a drug gang,
> than actual amnesia. I'm not saying that makes it significantly more
> believable, but we should keep all these fine details clear.

It's best explained as just deep, DEEP denial. Of course, the authorities
are also trying to keep things as hush-hush as possible.

>>> The second is between Buffy and her mom, not
>>> so much for the scene itself but just for the fact that Buffy gets
>>> grounded.
>
> Joyce getting her parenting advice from tapes ("The tapes all say I should
> get used to saying it. No.") makes me suspect that she was originally
> meant to be a bit ditzier than she had become by the end of season 2.

I don't know if she's ditzy as much as at wit's end.

Basically, I think the vampire takes on your personality to some degree, but
the way in which the personality is in turn affected by the presence of the
vampire demon varies from person to person (depending on the personality).
The personality of a social outcast like Jesse might gain a newfound
confidence and swagger, just as he did, whereas someone like Harmony, who's
pretty shallow and oblivious and doesn't care much about things outside of
boys or how she looks, might not be much affected by the change.

But you're right about the way the statement works in this case.

>>> AOQ rating: Decent
>
> As with WTTH, I like The Harvest so much for showing us the beginnings of
> what I'll love later in the series, that it's hard to judge it on its own
> merits. I'd say the slow sections and weak action scenes are balanced out
> by a few good scenes and a lot of fun lines, leaving me to agree with the
> Decent overall.

It's particularly hard for me to judge it by itself, because the first time
I saw it, (like many others here I'd guess) I was already well into the
series via the FX network, and only caught it when I bought the first season
DVDs. But I really see it as a Part 2 that ties up the plot from Part 1.

Arnold Kim


Don Sample

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Mar 17, 2007, 1:29:03 AM3/17/07
to
In article <TTKKh.2027$Ru2....@newsfe12.lga>,
"Arnold Kim" <arno...@optonline.net> wrote:

The one where Joss told the director "Give me the Speilberg shot."

--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges

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Mar 17, 2007, 6:34:07 AM3/17/07
to
> It seemed to get to the point by the end of the series that anyone with a
> stake can kill a vampire...

already with the migrant hearts
as jesses moves up under his collar bone

Arbitrar Of Quality

unread,
Mar 17, 2007, 3:15:53 PM3/17/07
to
On Mar 16, 6:00 pm, "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> I have one more essay following up on the one from WTTH. (I don't have any
> prepared for subsequent episodes, so don't worry.)

> In WTTH I referred to the first "magic moment" of the series when Buffy sees


> Willow being taken away by a vampire, and chooses to go after her, instantly
> dropping her argument with Giles about whether to be The Slayer, so that she
> could be it, when her friend needs it.
>
> This is Buffy's first attempt to reconcile the conflict between being The
> Slayer and leading a normal life. Her solution is to marry the two by being
> The Slayer for her friends in need. She slays in service of the life she
> wants. In The Harvest this reconciliation is clearly shown at the end when

> a happy Buffy walks with her circle of friends - a circle that includes


> Giles, her Watcher and constant reminder of her calling.
>
> I don't think this is often recognized as being Buffy's first idea for
> solving the Slayer trap. (Perhaps because its greatest weakness is not
> addressing the death part of the trap.) But it is - and it's a very
> important solution. In that moment when she drops her argument with Giles
> and runs after Willow she establishes an ideal for her calling that she will
> stick with. This same ideal will conflict with the Slayer tradition,
> creating its own set of conflicts. Conflicts that are not merely disputes
> about what Buffy wants, but real challenges to the idea of the Slayer. For
> Buffy's way will often prove better than the tradition.
>
> In essence, Buffy accepted her calling. But on her terms. And her terms
> are better than the traditional ones. Right off the bat, she starts the
> ball rolling that will bring down the Watcher construct and personally
> torment Giles. She is now The Slayer with friends.

[snip]


> As important as her decision is, it's still understated in its play. It's
> not presented as something momentous, but rather as innocent. Easy even.
> Something else is happening here as well. Joss has snuck in and gently
> tapped the reset button, wiping out the slightly cynical Buffy of WTTH that
> already knew what being The Slayer does to her life, and replacing her with
> a much more innocent Buffy that still has to learn that lesson.

It's weird that, besides the convenience of being able to make the
point and frame the story early, Joss says that one of his reasons for
making the TV show a spiritual, if not literal, sequel to the movie is
that he didn't want to tell the same story again. S1 basically ends
up being a retelling of the hero's discovery of identity after all,
though. Of course, as you point out, it's not a complete reversion.

I'm also a fan of the understated way this central conflict of the
season - and the series - plays out in WTTH/TH. Most of what you
describe is unconscious. I'm not sure whether Joss is completely
registering the significance of everything at this point, but it's
fair to say that Buffy isn't. The crisis, She's acting on emotion and
instinct, as always, doing what comes naturally to her rather than
spending much time navel-gazing and framing the problem.

This might be my favorite of your essays.

-AOQ


One Bit Shy

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Mar 17, 2007, 9:21:59 PM3/17/07
to
"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
<mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mair_fheal-0AF4C...@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...

> In article <12vm942...@news.supernews.com>,
> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
>
>> <chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu> wrote in message
>> news:12vm683...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> > -In WTTH Giles seemed baffled about how he can get through to Buffy at
>> > all, let alone build a working relationship with her. I think this is
>> > the
>> > reason Giles agrees to let them in on the secret world of Slayage: his
>> > accepting Buffy's new friends makes her more willing to accept *him*.
>>
>> Buffy certainly is a challenge to Giles, but he does have a pair of eyes.
>> He's witnessed Buffy go from resisting her calling to complete engagement
>> in
>> it because of Willow's abduction and Jesse's death. He can see her
>> friendships inspiring her to her calling. Don't mess with what works.
>
> giles has no children of its own

You know, I keep forgetting about the aspect of Giles being childless - even
though I think it's meant to be an important influence on him. I need to
pay more attention to the notion.


> and this appears to be his first field mission
> and not being buffys original watcher
> likely he has never had slayer in training
> its been all books and study so far
>
> now he has to apply theory to practise
> as the only slightly less goofy wesley

We're never told exactly what his prior experience was. The suggestion that
he hasn't had a Slayer before is probably true because of his later comments
about how other Watchers probably felt when they lost their Slayer. I'm not
so certain about not having had a potential before.

Probably not... It's just that he sure seems more practiced than Wesley.
And older.

Well, I guess that's one of the things we'll never know for sure.


> the commentary also points out that giles is in the traditional horror
> movie
> (like the opening organ of the theme)
> while buffy cant be bothered with that (the nerfherder part of the theme)
>
>> Giles is too smart to get in the way of that. Alas, that makes for the
>> first compromise by Giles and the start of his own struggle with what
>> being
>> a Watcher means.
>
> the world is definitely doomed
>
> this is a long way from the willow buffy and xander of the chosen
> its also a long way from the giles of the chosen

One thing AOQ's walkthrough of the series did for me was make me appreciate
a whole lot more the journey that Giles took.

OBS


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