Revisiting AOQ Review 1-5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
Apteryx
> Date: Jan 11 2006, 4:55 pm
> Subject: AOQ Review 1-5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
> To: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer
>
>
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season One, Episode 5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
> (or "whatever")
> Writers: Dean Batali and Rob Des Hostel
> Director: David Semel
>
> Since BTVS devotes so much time compared to other teen superhero
> stories to said hero's attempts to have a life outside of her night
> job, it's logical to do an episode like "Never Kill A Boy On The First
> Date." And the wordy episode title makes me happy (I like that sort
> of
> thing). Most of the show comes down to the rather amusing fact that
> the vampires just aren't coopertive enough to let Buffy have one night
> to go out on a date. The inevitable friction this causes between
> Slayer and Watcher is the best part of NKABOTFD, and gives the show
> some of its best lines. (My favorite exchange? Don't remember the
> exact lines, but it's when Giles "volunteers" to go back in time to
> tell the prophecy-writers to push things back a week, and Buffy
> accuses
> him of abusing sarcasm.)
"OK, at this point, you're abusing sarcasm" - one of the all time great
Buffyisms
> Giles never comes across as unsympathetic to
> her plight, he just has a very clear notion of where the priorities
> lie. (Actually, the crisis at the end comes about basically because
> he's too accomodating.) It's interesting to note that the episode
> basically ends up bearing out his concerns; however hip or capable or
> self-sufficient older teens think they are, sometimes the Authority
> Figures really do know what's best.
Leading to another great line - "Buffy, when I said you could slay vampires
and have a social life, I didn't mean at the same time"
> To give us a love interest for the episode, our hero ignores the
> various guys who've gotten obsessed with her over the course of the
> first few episodes and ends up having her first (seen) kiss with a guy
> named Owen. This new character is someone I don't quite get. He
> likes
> dancing and partying one minute, then in another scene he's an
> academic
> nerd with no apparent social skills who spends his time reading
> poetry,
> except when he's more of a Chess Club Geek who effortlessly works nods
> to _Soylent Green_ into everyday conversation. I don't get it, and
> I'll go out on a limb and say the writers don't either.
I don't think he's that much of a mystery. He has a certain Owenosity. He's
simply what Buffy wants, her perfect man, or so it appears.
> Also, I
> don't
> know where the writers went to high school, but 'round my parts, good
> looks aren't enough to make one desirable. Very few people can pull
> off "brooding and mysterious;" it ends up looking more like
> "antisocial
> and creepy." I don't see why Cordelia bothers with someone so alien
> to
> her as Owen, why she's suddenly pursuing him so intensively despite
> their having presumably been in school together for years, and why he
> tolerates her when he's so annoyed by vapid chicks. Maybe if Cordelia
> had some particular grudge against Buffy it might make more sense for
> her to go after the same guy. Thus far she's just been a general
> bitch
> who doesn't actually have anything to do with our core show (which
> makes sense; if she caught BTVS on TV, she'd find it boring) except
> for
> when the plot decides to shoehorn her in.
>
> Beyond that, well, there's not much to talk about. Unless you count
> the Anointed One storyline which begins here... in which case there's
> still not a whole lot to talk about. The only thing really worth
> mentioning is that I liked the schizophrenic vampire, and it'd be
> scary
> if more people with mental illnesses weren't harmless. And given the
> amount of screen-time he got, that's all the page-time he gets.
> Anyone
> out there _not_ realize when he died (or earlier) that he wasn't
> Anointed? Much like the episode as a whole, this is all handled
> competently, but not in a particularly interesting manner. Where the
> previous episode ("Teacher's Pet") was just okay because the quality
> of
> individual scenes was all over the place, this one is just okay
> because
> it maintains a consistent level of quality throughout, never rising
> above "pleasantly bland." Your plot is okay but nothing special, your
> character interactions are okay but nothing special, and your action
> sequence at the end is entertaining but nothing you'll remember fondly
> in five years or anything.
Au contraire, this is an episode which I tend to like a little more each
time I see it. And it is a vital part of Buffy's story. The earlier episodes
have alluded to the fact that her Slayer duties cramp her social life. Here
she tries to do something about, by the time honoured method of ignoring the
problem and hoping it will go away. Significantly though, she doesn't
challenge Giles's authority, she just manipulates him (and this episode is
totally about Buffy and Giles, not Owen or the Anointed One). After she
wastes one evening with him at the graveyard which she acceded to despite
her cogent argument "But... Cute guy! Teenager! Post-pubescent fantasies!",
he doesn't feel in a strong enough position to insist on her following up
his new theory in the morgue the next evening. But as a result, they both
learn a Valuable Lesson that bodes ill for her social life.
> Speaking of not interesting, there's a worrisome sign here. One
> constant that BTVS has had from day one is that however trite the plot
> and even the characters might become, the dialogue has that Whedon
> spark that keeps things entertaining. When conversations start to
> become predictable, it's a major blow to what made the show
> intriguing.
> Much of "First Date" is still okay in that regard, but a few
> Buffy/Owen scenes suffered. By far the most noticeable example of
> stale dialogue was the exchange between Xander and Willow at Buffy's
> house in which I could literally predict exactly what would be said,
> including the alleged jokes (they're both worried and feel like they
> should "go along," but they're talking about different things!
> Hilarity!). To say the least, this doesn't bode well.
>
> I like the conceit of using one scene as a microcosm for a show, and
> for "First Date," that scene would be the five-person Bronze meeting
> (with Angel and Owen). Lots of people not understanding each other.
> Lots of awkwardness which makes sense under the circumstances but is
> taken to excess, both in terms of what the audience can tolerate and
> in
> terms of what the characters can be expected to accept. Mildly
> intriguing but ultimately not going anywhere very interesting.
>
> [I did like Angel's deadpan (well, does he ever not deadpan?) "work"
> when asked where he knows Buffy from.]
>
> The ending does a few good things, in addition to the aforementioned
> Buffy/Giles scene. Owen breaks the mold of SHS students by actually
> proving fairly capable in a fight, for a non-Slayer. Does that mean a
> major role for him (I feel like I saw his name occasionally in my
> scrolling-past-BTVS-info years...)? Well, not at the moment, since
> Buffy lets him down as gently as she can. And regardless of what she
> might say, it's not her, it's him. Someone who gets excited by the
> idea of starting fights in bars isn't someone who can be trusted to be
> part of a Slayer's life. As with government, those who most want to
> be
> action heroes are those least suited to do so. So the whole final act
> basically reminds me of the great series _Buffy_ could be, if it
> weren't busy being merely acceptable like it's been these last few
> episodes.
>
> And I have nothing else to say about this show. It held my interest,
> but it doesn't really merit any more attention.
It merits lots of attention, not only for its own merits, but for its series
significance - not only of its main theme, but for some of its throw away
lines. Giles denies that there is a Slayer handbook. And when he was 10, he
wanted to be a fighter pilot. Or a grocer - the split in his personality
already present at that age. And I believe Buffy's pager, apart from
providing the great line "If the apocalypse comes, beep me" is the last nod
to seemingly useful communications technology until Dawn's cellphone in
season 7.
> So....
>
> One-sentence summary: Seriously, whatever.
>
> AOQ rating: Decent
Definitely Good for me. It's my 38th favourite BtVS episode, 6th best in
season 1
--
Apteryx
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>> Date: Jan 11 2006, 4:55 pm
>> Subject: AOQ Review 1-5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
>> To: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season One, Episode 5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
>> (or "whatever")
>> Writers: Dean Batali and Rob Des Hostel
>> Director: David Semel
I've always been really fond of NKABOTFD. Sure, it's lightweight, and
many of the plot elements (e.g. mounting difficulties during the date with
Owen, Xander telling Owen that Buffy doesn't like to be kissed, trying to
hide the truth from Owen even while fleeing from vampires) are pure
sitcom. But almost all of it works for me. It's cute. And there's some
good character development worked in, especially in Buffy's relationship
with Giles.
>> first few episodes and ends up having her first (seen) kiss with a guy
>> named Owen. This new character is someone I don't quite get. He
>> likes
>> dancing and partying one minute, then in another scene he's an
>> academic
>> nerd with no apparent social skills who spends his time reading
>> poetry,
>> except when he's more of a Chess Club Geek who effortlessly works nods
>> to _Soylent Green_ into everyday conversation. I don't get it, and
>> I'll go out on a limb and say the writers don't either.
I don't entirely agree with that description. Owen is quiet and
withdrawn, but when he does interact with someone, he never seems to lack
social skills. He also has a certain air of self-confidence that says
that if he's alone, it's because he chooses to be alone.
>> and creepy." I don't see why Cordelia bothers with someone so alien
>> to
>> her as Owen, why she's suddenly pursuing him so intensively despite
>> their having presumably been in school together for years,
Fanwank: He only recently bloomed into good looks. Now Cordelia sees Owen
as extremely desireable, not just because he's cute, but because he's cute
*and* uninterested in her. She wants to add his head to her trophy
collection to prove her status as queen of SHS.
>> and why he
>> tolerates her when he's so annoyed by vapid chicks.
I think it's clearly nothing but politeness. Only a really blatant rebuff
could penetrate her self-regard, and he's unwilling to be that rude.
>> Buffy/Owen scenes suffered. By far the most noticeable example of
>> stale dialogue was the exchange between Xander and Willow at Buffy's
>> house in which I could literally predict exactly what would be said,
>> including the alleged jokes (they're both worried and feel like they
>> should "go along," but they're talking about different things!
>> Hilarity!). To say the least, this doesn't bode well.
I agree about that scene. Xander's "advice" to Owen was also a little too
broad, and Owen's failure to realize what he was doing was a little too
dumb. But "If the apocalypse comes, beep me!" makes up for an awful lot.
>> The ending does a few good things, in addition to the aforementioned
>> Buffy/Giles scene. Owen breaks the mold of SHS students by actually
>> proving fairly capable in a fight, for a non-Slayer. Does that mean a
>> major role for him (I feel like I saw his name occasionally in my
>> scrolling-past-BTVS-info years...)?
I wonder if AOQ was getting Owen's name confused with Oz, or Ben perhaps.
I really love the final Buffy scene, when Buffy realizes she can't be with
Owen, and especially the final talk with Giles. We can see that they're
already developing a real personal bond that goes beyond the
Slayer-Watcher relationship. It's a nice touch that Buffy recognizes that
she's as responsible for Giles as he is for her. BTW, I don't think that
the Watchers' Council had been thought of at this point -- for all that
Giles says here, Watcherdom could be strictly a family affair.
Other notes:
-first time the show jokes about how students never come into the library
-I'm not sure, but I think this is the first time they filmed anything in
the "Buffy's house" we'll see so much of in later years.
-I hate it when TV characters try to block a door by piling such weighty
items as seat cushions and lampshades in front of it.
-It's weird that the first vampire's clothes dusted but his ring remained.
Fanwank: The ring had some minor enchantment on it, and mystical objects
are exempt from dusting.
>> AOQ rating: Decent
A solid Good for me.
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> >> to
> >> her as Owen, why she's suddenly pursuing him so intensively despite
> >> their having presumably been in school together for years,
>
> Fanwank: He only recently bloomed into good looks. Now Cordelia sees Owen
> as extremely desireable, not just because he's cute, but because he's cute
> *and* uninterested in her. She wants to add his head to her trophy
> collection to prove her status as queen of SHS.
i see more that cordy is competing with buffy
how dare buffy have a boyfriend (except a total loser like xander)
that cordelia doesnt have
> broad, and Owen's failure to realize what he was doing was a little too
> dumb. But "If the apocalypse comes, beep me!" makes up for an awful lot.
dont see pagers again till the last season
> -It's weird that the first vampire's clothes dusted but his ring remained.
> Fanwank: The ring had some minor enchantment on it, and mystical objects
> are exempt from dusting.
remember the whole idea of dusting was the writers convenience
not have to stop to hide the bodies
meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>> Fanwank: He only recently bloomed into good looks. Now Cordelia sees Owen
>> as extremely desireable, not just because he's cute, but because he's cute
>> *and* uninterested in her. She wants to add his head to her trophy
>> collection to prove her status as queen of SHS.
>
> i see more that cordy is competing with buffy
> how dare buffy have a boyfriend (except a total loser like xander)
> that cordelia doesnt have
That works in the later parts of the episode; but I don't think Cordelia
had noticed Buffy was interested in Owen in their first scene together,
when she first approached him in the cafeteria.
Don Sample
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
> -I'm not sure, but I think this is the first time they filmed anything in
> the "Buffy's house" we'll see so much of in later years.
"Witch" has scenes in the house too. (And it was the real house. At
this point they've only got Buffy's bedroom built as a set.)
>
> -It's weird that the first vampire's clothes dusted but his ring remained.
> Fanwank: The ring had some minor enchantment on it, and mystical objects
> are exempt from dusting.
The ring remaining is treated as "something unusual" and provides the
first clue that the Order of Aurelius is in town. (Later on the other
series they screw up the continuity by making the OoA the name for the
Master's line.)
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Michael Ikeda
news:12vtojs...@corp.supernews.com:
> Apteryx <apt...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>>> Date: Jan 11 2006, 4:55 pm
>>> Subject: AOQ Review 1-5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
>>> To: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer
>
>>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>> Season One, Episode 5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
>>> (or "whatever")
>>> Writers: Dean Batali and Rob Des Hostel
>>> Director: David Semel
>
>>> first few episodes and ends up having her first (seen) kiss
>>> with a guy named Owen. This new character is someone I don't
>>> quite get. He likes
>>> dancing and partying one minute, then in another scene he's an
>>> academic
>>> nerd with no apparent social skills who spends his time
>>> reading poetry,
>>> except when he's more of a Chess Club Geek who effortlessly
>>> works nods to _Soylent Green_ into everyday conversation. I
>>> don't get it, and I'll go out on a limb and say the writers
>>> don't either.
>
> I don't entirely agree with that description. Owen is quiet and
> withdrawn, but when he does interact with someone, he never
> seems to lack social skills. He also has a certain air of
> self-confidence that says that if he's alone, it's because he
> chooses to be alone.
Also note that Willow's description of Owen sounds a lot like a
certain vampire we know...
"He's solitary, mysterious... He can brood for forty minutes
straight, I've clocked him."
(And it also sounds like that Willow also has a bit of a crush on
Owen.)
>
>>> and creepy." I don't see why Cordelia bothers with someone so
>>> alien to
>>> her as Owen, why she's suddenly pursuing him so intensively
>>> despite their having presumably been in school together for
>>> years,
>
> Fanwank: He only recently bloomed into good looks. Now Cordelia
> sees Owen as extremely desireable, not just because he's cute,
> but because he's cute *and* uninterested in her. She wants to
> add his head to her trophy collection to prove her status as
> queen of SHS.
Especially since Owen seems to be currently regarded as desirable by
much of the female population of SHS.
ir.
>
> Other notes:
>
> -first time the show jokes about how students never come into
> the library
>
> -I'm not sure, but I think this is the first time they filmed
> anything in the "Buffy's house" we'll see so much of in later
> years.
>
> -I hate it when TV characters try to block a door by piling such
> weighty items as seat cushions and lampshades in front of it.
>
> -It's weird that the first vampire's clothes dusted but his ring
> remained. Fanwank: The ring had some minor enchantment on it,
> and mystical objects are exempt from dusting.
The first time we see Angel's "jealous look".
And an interesting note in the fight near the end. Buffy is fighting
a vampire who she THINKS has just killed Owen. Buffy is pummeling
the vamp when Willow notices that Owen is alive. She starts to tell
Buffy but Xander tells her to wait.
Willow: Buffy! Owen's...
Xander: (pulls Willow back) J-just give her a sec!
Apparently Xander has already figured out that Buffy fights better
when she's angry.
--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association
Arnold Kim
"Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
news:dsample-515262...@news.giganews.com...
> In article <12vtojs...@corp.supernews.com>,
> chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
>
>
>> -I'm not sure, but I think this is the first time they filmed anything in
>> the "Buffy's house" we'll see so much of in later years.
>
> "Witch" has scenes in the house too. (And it was the real house. At
> this point they've only got Buffy's bedroom built as a set.)
When did they make the transition anyway? Can you notice the difference?
Arnold Kim
Marc Espie
Arnold Kim <arno...@optonline.net> wrote:
>When did they make the transition anyway? Can you notice the difference?
I think it was during season 2. There is one supplement on one of the DVD
that specifically talks about `the house in Torrence' vs. the set.
If I remember things right, the exterior of the house is still filmed in
Torrence. I think there's a commentary on the episode where Cordelia
and Xander are chased by the bug-man to the effect that they have the
interior set, but the exterior is still the real house...
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"Arnold Kim" <arno...@optonline.net> wrote:
theres one shot up the staircase in season 2 i think
which is up the real house because it doesnt match the upstairs set
(you can see rail and open space on the floor above the landing)
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>
>> -I'm not sure, but I think this is the first time they filmed anything in
>> the "Buffy's house" we'll see so much of in later years.
>
> "Witch" has scenes in the house too. (And it was the real house. At
> this point they've only got Buffy's bedroom built as a set.)
Was it definitely the real house? We see the kitchen in Witch, but ISTR
it looking more like soundstage-kitchen than house-kitchen. (I'm just
going on looks here, I have no actual knowledge on this point....)
Arnold Kim
<chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu> wrote in message
news:12vu403...@corp.supernews.com...
> Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
>>
>>> -I'm not sure, but I think this is the first time they filmed anything
>>> in
>>> the "Buffy's house" we'll see so much of in later years.
>>
>> "Witch" has scenes in the house too. (And it was the real house. At
>> this point they've only got Buffy's bedroom built as a set.)
>
> Was it definitely the real house? We see the kitchen in Witch, but ISTR
> it looking more like soundstage-kitchen than house-kitchen. (I'm just
> going on looks here, I have no actual knowledge on this point....)
The downstairs set didn't even exist until later on, IIRC.
Arnold Kim
Don Sample
"Arnold Kim" <arno...@optonline.net> wrote:
They built their set of the downstairs of the house to match the real
thing (and they'd always brought in their own furniture, and other set
dressing stuff.)
The most obvious difference that I've seen is the stairway up to the
second floor. In the real house there's a curve to the left at the top.
In the set version the stairway goes up to a landing, and makes a 90
degree bend.
This is most obvious in the episodes "What's My Line," and "Ted." In
WML they're in the house and you see Xander go up the stairs and around
the curve. In "Ted" you see Ted fall down the stairs onto the landing,
and then the rest of the way down the stairs.
William George Ferguson
wrote:
The most obvious difference between the inside of the real house (which we
see in season one) and the set is the stairs.
The upstairs (which, other than Buffy's room, we don't see until season 2)
never had any relation to the actual second floor of the real house. As
Don can show you with 8'x10' glossies with circles and arrows (and a little
paragraph on the back explaining what each one is about), the second floor
layout, which remained unchanged from season 2 through season 7, won't fit
on the first floor layout (which Is modeled on the layout of the real
house).
--
... and my sister is a vampire slayer, her best friend is a witch who
went bonkers and tried to destroy the world, um, I actually used to be
a little ball of energy until about two years ago when some monks
changed the past and made me Buffy's sister and for some reason, a big
klepto. My best friends are Leticia Jones, who moved to San Diego
because this town is evil, and a floppy eared demon named Clem.
(Dawn's fantasy of her intro speech in "Lessons", from the shooting script)
Don Sample
William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:22:31 +0000 (UTC), es...@lain.home (Marc Espie)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <ZQDLh.924$mg7...@newsfe12.lga>,
> >Arnold Kim <arno...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >>When did they make the transition anyway? Can you notice the difference?
> >
> >I think it was during season 2. There is one supplement on one of the DVD
> >that specifically talks about `the house in Torrence' vs. the set.
> >
> >If I remember things right, the exterior of the house is still filmed in
> >Torrence. I think there's a commentary on the episode where Cordelia
> >and Xander are chased by the bug-man to the effect that they have the
> >interior set, but the exterior is still the real house...
>
> The most obvious difference between the inside of the real house (which we
> see in season one) and the set is the stairs.
>
> The upstairs (which, other than Buffy's room, we don't see until season 2)
> never had any relation to the actual second floor of the real house. As
> Don can show you with 8'x10' glossies with circles and arrows (and a little
> paragraph on the back explaining what each one is about), the second floor
> layout, which remained unchanged from season 2 through season 7, won't fit
> on the first floor layout (which Is modeled on the layout of the real
> house).
Actually, I built Buffy's house in The Sims once. The second floor fits
better than I thought it would. (I had to add a second bathroom on the
ground floor though, otherwise my Sim people spent all their time going
up and down the stairs.)
Daniel Damouth
> -I hate it when TV characters try to block a door by piling such
> weighty items as seat cushions and lampshades in front of it.
Are you joking? Because the lampshade is my favorite part of the
episode. Fits in perfectly with Xander sliding the card catalog in
front of the two-way swinging doors of the library next season, and
Xander nailing planks across the doorway of a door that opens the other
way.
-Dan Damouth
Arbitrar Of Quality
> >> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> >> Season One, Episode 5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
> >> (or "whatever")
> >> Writers: Dean Batali and Rob Des Hostel
Ah, first time of many I got Des Hotel's name wrong. I think someone
finally corrected me in the thread for his last credited episode.
> >> The ending does a few good things, in addition to the aforementioned
> >> Buffy/Giles scene. Owen breaks the mold of SHS students by actually
> >> proving fairly capable in a fight, for a non-Slayer. Does that mean a
> >> major role for him (I feel like I saw his name occasionally in my
> >> scrolling-past-BTVS-info years...)?
>
> I wonder if AOQ was getting Owen's name confused with Oz, or Ben perhaps.
As I figured out during S3, it was Wesley whose name I was conflating
it with. Maybe it's the 'w,' I dunno.
> I really love the final Buffy scene, when Buffy realizes she can't be with
> Owen, and especially the final talk with Giles. We can see that they're
> already developing a real personal bond that goes beyond the
> Slayer-Watcher relationship. It's a nice touch that Buffy recognizes that
> she's as responsible for Giles as he is for her. BTW, I don't think that
> the Watchers' Council had been thought of at this point -- for all that
> Giles says here, Watcherdom could be strictly a family affair.
Any memory of when the WC is first mentioned? In the LDM, of course,
the Watcher is a perpetually reincarnated singular, like the Slayer.
I mentioned that my memory told me that "Teacher's Pet" was better
than it was. This one was on a mental downgrading to Weak-ville
before I even watched it again. And parts were worse than I
remembered. Owen is worthless, and the attempts to portray him as a
desirable guy make me question Joss and company's story that they've
ever set foot in a high school. The "pure sitcom," stuff, as you put
it, makes me absolutely cringe, and for the second week in a row,
Xander makes me want to jam toothpicks in my ears - this was really
frustrating for me the first time 'round, since unlike, say, Cordelia,
this was a character that I was hoping to and ready to like, but the
show refused to let me.
But this episode is indeed about Buffy and Giles first and foremost,
and it's one of the best episodes of the year in terms of their
relationship. Pretty much every one-on-one scene between them gels
marvelously, mixing plenty of humor with a tangible and growing
warmth. I'll second Apteryx's endorsement of Giles's line about his
possible career paths - definitely something the show builds upon. I
once questioned why this story had to be told, but having seen the
shape of the season, I can see why Joss thought it was so important to
have Buffy try to date a normal guy. It's on the blunt side as far as
framing the Slayer's existential conflict, but it's good to address it
front and center once in awhile.
Other thoughts: After the discussion about Angel being unrecognizable
last week, I get a kick out of his part here. Especially his
hilarious reaction when he finds out that Owen is Buffy's date;
afterwards he looks like he's about to start sniffing him. Plus the
Anointed One story has an odd magnetism to it, despite being about as
by-the-numbers as a fantasy story can get. Maybe I enjoyed the
combination of a decent enough vampire to be the stand-alone villain
and signs of an ongoing story in the background.
I'd still say NKABOTFD is just okay when you sum the plusses and
minuses, but am less indifferent to it now than I was OFV. Solid
Decent for me.
-AOQ
Rowan Hawthorn
> On Mar 19, 2:20 pm, chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
>> Apteryx <apte...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>
>>>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>>> Season One, Episode 5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
>>>> (or "whatever")
>>>> Writers: Dean Batali and Rob Des Hostel
>
>
>> Owen, and especially the final talk with Giles. We can see that they're
>> already developing a real personal bond that goes beyond the
>> Slayer-Watcher relationship. It's a nice touch that Buffy recognizes that
>> she's as responsible for Giles as he is for her. BTW, I don't think that
>> the Watchers' Council had been thought of at this point -- for all that
>> Giles says here, Watcherdom could be strictly a family affair.
>
> Any memory of when the WC is first mentioned?
Depends. The first *specific* mention is in "Faith, Hope, and Trick":
GILES: The Council has approved our request. Faith is to stay here
indefinitely. I’m to look after you both until a new Watcher is
assigned.
But there are hints at some form of organization earlier in the series.
By inference, from "What's My Line, Pt 2":
BUFFY: So. You were sent here?
KENDRA: Yes, by my Watcher.
Since we know Giles is a Watcher, this means that there is more than one
Watcher currently active. Still, no idea yet if they are the only ones,
though.
Then, a little later, in the same show:
GILES: And your Watcher is Sam Zabuto, you say?
KENDRA: Yes, sir.
GILES: We’ve never met, but he’s very well-respected.
Well-respected by whom, exactly? Supposedly, no one is supposed to know
about the Slayer and her work.
And again later, same episode:
KENDRA: My parents, dey sent me to my Watcher when I was very
young.
So: Since there's not that much difference in Buffy's age and Kendra's,
Zabuto must have been an active Watcher at the same time as not only
Giles, but Merrick (Buffy's first Watcher.) So, now we have evidence of
three Watchers being active concurrently, at a time when there would
have been only one Slayer. If there were three, it's not a big stretch
to infer the possibility of more than that, and at least *some* form of
connection between them.
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 19, 2:20 pm, chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
> > Apteryx <apte...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> > >> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>
> > >> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > >> Season One, Episode 5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
> > >> (or "whatever")
> > >> Writers: Dean Batali and Rob Des Hostel
>
> Ah, first time of many I got Des Hotel's name wrong. I think someone
> finally corrected me in the thread for his last credited episode.
same word
french dropped postvoalic s and marked them a circumflex
hotel hostel hopital hospital etre est
Arnold Kim
"Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:15adnURzwYu...@giganews.com...
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>> On Mar 19, 2:20 pm, chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
>>> Apteryx <apte...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>>> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>>
>>>>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>>>> Season One, Episode 5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
>>>>> (or "whatever")
>>>>> Writers: Dean Batali and Rob Des Hostel
>>
>>
>>> I really love the final Buffy scene, when Buffy realizes she can't be
>>> with
>>> Owen, and especially the final talk with Giles. We can see that they're
>>> already developing a real personal bond that goes beyond the
>>> Slayer-Watcher relationship. It's a nice touch that Buffy recognizes
>>> that
>>> she's as responsible for Giles as he is for her. BTW, I don't think
>>> that
>>> the Watchers' Council had been thought of at this point -- for all that
>>> Giles says here, Watcherdom could be strictly a family affair.
>>
>> Any memory of when the WC is first mentioned?
>
> Depends. The first *specific* mention is in "Faith, Hope, and Trick":
<snip>
> So: Since there's not that much difference in Buffy's age and Kendra's,
> Zabuto must have been an active Watcher at the same time as not only
> Giles, but Merrick (Buffy's first Watcher.) So, now we have evidence of
> three Watchers being active concurrently, at a time when there would have
> been only one Slayer. If there were three, it's not a big stretch to
> infer the possibility of more than that, and at least *some* form of
> connection between them.
Possibly even earlier than that. In "Prophecy Girl" during her "I quit"
scene, Buffy says to Giles about the next slayer, "Will you train her, or
will they send someone else?"
"They" is pretty vague, but that's an indication that there's more than just
Giles, and it does imply some kind of connection between them.
Arnold Kim
Arbitrar Of Quality
> "Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_hawth...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Ooh, delayed reaction. How are Watchers chosen? There's never any
indication as best I can remember that they're mystical creatures
themselves. Except for this episode:
GILES: I was ten years old when my father told me I was destined to
be
a Watcher. He was one, and his, uh, mother before
him, and I was to be next.
BUFFY: Were you thrilled beyond all measure?
GILES: No, I had very definite plans about my future. I was going to
be
a fighter pilot. Or possibly a grocer. Well, uh... My father gave
me a
very tiresome speech about, uh, responsibility and sacrifice.
So why is it Giles's responsibility to sacrifice? He's not the
Slayer, someone uniquely gifted for this job. If he refuses to Watch,
there're still dozens of others.
Maybe it's like a dynasty, based on what we hear from Giles and
Wesley, where birthright is more important than talent or
inclination. And one wonders why the Watchers are so pathetic.
Admittedly, that'd at least make it easier to stay hidden.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> And I believe Buffy's pager, apart from
> providing the great line "If the apocalypse comes, beep me" is the last nod
> to seemingly useful communications technology until Dawn's cellphone in
> season 7.
Giles gives Buffy the number for Calendar's beeper-thingy in "Lie To
Me."
-AOQ
Rowan Hawthorn
As far as the higher-ups in the Council are concerned, I've always
assumed (yeah, I know) that that was the case. I suspect that only the
"right" kind of people ever get advanced beyond the front-line Watchers.
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
Or it's a family tradition, where the child follows in the footsteps of
the parent, as is common in many professions: Children of doctors are
more likely to become doctors; children of lawyers are more likely to
become lawyers.
Don Sample
"Arnold Kim" <arno...@optonline.net> wrote:
Or, going back to WTTH: "Oh, why can't you people just leave me alone?"
Exp315
> I've always been really fond of NKABOTFD.
Me too. It's the first episode of BtVS I actually remember seeing on
first run, and it was good enough to make me want to tune in for more.
Watching it now I think it's the first time that Buffy and Giles
really hit their stride as the characters we came to know and love.
And it's got some great classic lines - I'd give it a nostalgic Good.
One Bit Shy
news:etkp0o$hsu$1...@aioe.org...
>> From: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season One, Episode 5: "Never Kill A Boy On The First Date"
>> And I have nothing else to say about this show. It held my interest,
>> but it doesn't really merit any more attention.
>
> It merits lots of attention, not only for its own merits, but for its
> series
> significance - not only of its main theme, but for some of its throw away
> lines. Giles denies that there is a Slayer handbook. And when he was 10,
> he
> wanted to be a fighter pilot. Or a grocer - the split in his personality
> already present at that age. And I believe Buffy's pager, apart from
> providing the great line "If the apocalypse comes, beep me" is the last
> nod
> to seemingly useful communications technology until Dawn's cellphone in
> season 7.
>
>> So....
>>
>> One-sentence summary: Seriously, whatever.
>>
>> AOQ rating: Decent
>
> Definitely Good for me. It's my 38th favourite BtVS episode, 6th best in
> season 1
Reaction this time around seems to be better than I've noted in the past -
which I've seen as generally negative.
I've never quite understood the negative reaction. Not all the dialogue is
great. And the mortuary scenes drag on a bit with some uneven action. But
there's a lot of humor in it. Classic stuff like abusing sarcasm and beep
me for the apocalypse and salty goodness. Smaller moments too like the
Tweetie Pie watch (which at least was set right) and Emily Dickens. The
series also seems to be settling into its Buffyspeak. (Owenosity) Buffy
and Cordy get into rivalry mode with a nice hip check by Cordy, plus a dance
that Cordy looks very hot in. Buffy leaves her in the dust with TWO guys no
less. (Cordy must be s-t-e-e-m-e-d.)
Plus the first iteration of, "Here endeth the lesson."
Just a lot of neat fun stuff that amuses me fine.
As pointed out by Apteryx and others, there's some really good character
elements in this episode that truly propel it. Some nice character
background for Giles, plus continued adapting on his part to deal with the
reality of Buffy as his Slayer. Very nice interactions between Buffy and
Giles as they work out each other's places and come to respect each other
more. And some rather major movement on the Slayer trap theme.
The latter is especially big to me. I like how the contention over dating
is initially (for Buffy anyway) mainly a matter of juggling time - setting
priorities. Much as with cheerleading in Witch, being a Slayer is treated
as mainly an inconvenience to normal life. But then the inconvenience takes
on additional tone as Buffy finds herself checking her beeper in the middle
of her date - even though it hadn't beeped. Even her date, who barely knows
her, can see that her life is torn two directions. It's dawning on Buffy
that even when things are easy, it's hard to separate her lives. Then,
boom, it gets way out of hand and she thinks her date has been killed by a
vampire. At the end she is hit with a couple nasty realizations. One is
that any boyfriend of hers really will be put in danger of his life. Two is
that the kind of boyfriend that would put up with that may be a thrill
junkie - not exactly what she had in mind.
It's a brutal narrowing of her life choices completing a brief 3 episode
sequence about that following the series openers. It didn't really sink in
the previous two episodes. But here it does. Too bad that worse will come.
Of related interest is that Buffy consciously distinguishes Willow and
Xander from Owen when it comes to the risk they take. Willow and Xander are
"careful". I suspect there's a bit of rationalizing going on in Buffy's
head there, since she could not bear pushing them away too.
One disconnected item of interest is Xander preventing Willow from telling
Buffy that Owen is actually alive. Xander recognizes how the perceived
death is motivating Buffy. (I've been pondering whether some aspect of his
jealousy might motivate him, but I haven't been able to work something out.
So I think it really is him seeing how it motivates Buffy.) So, Xander's
version of being perceptive steps forth. Willow will get the reputation as
the perceptive one, but Xander strikes first and will continue to have his
own way to the end. We'll also see Xander withhold information to motivate
Buffy in the future. Notoriously so.
This episode gets a Good from me.
OBS
Arbitrar Of Quality
> In article <1174438494.101608.178...@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
But people don't (well, maybe some Indian-American families do) act
like one's offspring is abandoning a sacred duty by not becoming a
doctor.
-AOQ
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>> > So why is it Giles's responsibility to sacrifice? He's not the
>> > Slayer, someone uniquely gifted for this job. If he refuses to Watch,
>> > there're still dozens of others.
>>
>> > Maybe it's like a dynasty, based on what we hear from Giles and
>> > Wesley, where birthright is more important than talent or
>> > inclination. And one wonders why the Watchers are so pathetic.
>> > Admittedly, that'd at least make it easier to stay hidden.
>> Or it's a family tradition, where the child follows in the footsteps of
>> the parent, as is common in many professions: Children of doctors are
>> more likely to become doctors; children of lawyers are more likely to
>> become lawyers.
>
> But people don't (well, maybe some Indian-American families do) act
> like one's offspring is abandoning a sacred duty by not becoming a
> doctor.
I suspect the key factor here is the Watchers' policy of secrecy. If they
want new recruits who will keep their secrets, they're naturally going to
turn to family members -- partly because of the natural human tendency to
trust your blood relatives over strangers, partly because their kids can
be indoctrinated from birth. And once a Watcher's kid is in on the
secret, then there would inevitably be great pressure on the kid's parents
to keep him or her within the fold at all costs. I imagine Giles's father
was *extremely* upset when Giles dropped out of university and started
bumming around London.
George W Harris
<tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
And Buffy gets a pager from the Initiative in (I believe)
"The I In Team" (where she says she's been thinking about
getting one of those; I guess she lost the one she had in
NKABOTFD).
:
:-AOQ
--
/bud...@nirvana.net/h:k
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Espen Schjønberg
> On 20 Mar 2007 17:58:20 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality"
> <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> :On Mar 18, 8:28 pm, "Apteryx" <apte...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> :
> :> And I believe Buffy's pager, apart from
> :> providing the great line "If the apocalypse comes, beep me" is the last nod
> :> to seemingly useful communications technology until Dawn's cellphone in
> :> season 7.
> :
> :Giles gives Buffy the number for Calendar's beeper-thingy in "Lie To
> :Me."
>
> And Buffy gets a pager from the Initiative in (I believe)
> "The I In Team" (where she says she's been thinking about
> getting one of those; I guess she lost the one she had in
> NKABOTFD).
And the "I in Team" was written by people who should not have been let
near the set.
--
Espen