Hasbro Announcements at BotCon 2015

[Zobovor]

Would you believe that I had totally forgotten it was BotCon weekend? There are plenty of exciting announcements about the future of the product line, including some things that we've been speculating about for months now! The Tokyo Toy Show was also on June 19th, so there was new information revealed there, too.

o TakaraTomy's version of the Combiner Wars Constructicons all have articulated elbows, as opposed to the versions showcased by Hasbro where Scrapper and Long Haul have lacked hinge joints at the mid-arm. There seems to be speculation (or wishful thinking) that Hasbro's version will be like this, too, though I suspect it's probably too late for that now. The Takara versions of the Constructicons are also getting rifles based on their G1 accessories. Makes me really want this version, now.

o There is a new show-accurate Beast Wars Blackarachnia coming for the Japanese market as part of the "Transformers Legends" series. She looks like she's based on the Transformers: Animated toy, but she's been partially remolded and includes a new head sculpt and some seriously large boobs. It's not perfect, obviously, but it's a really good effort. Other toys in the line include Nightbird (remolded from Generations Arcee) and Slipstream (remolded from Windblade).

o Takara showed off full-color photos of Masterpiece Ironhide. He includes his battle station, as per the G1 toy, but in robot mode he has a conventional humanoid design as well as a head. Accessories include his "sonidar sensor" from "S.O.S. Dinobots" and multiple hand replacements. My guess is that Ratchet is an inevitability. I'm very happy about this. I've wanted to see these two for a while now.

o There was an official reveal of some upcoming Robots in Disguise 2 stuff, but by and large I'm not interested. It looks like they're mixing some additional G1 characters into the Tiny Titans assortment (Galvatron, Kickback, Devastator, Inferno, Roadbuster) but they all have, like, a single paint operation to their name. (Apparently one of them is "Decepticon Fracture" but it sure doesn't look like Crasher to me.) I got suckered into buying Prowl; I'm not sure if I'll be collecting these or not. The only thing that really caught my eye is that the Deluxe-scale Grimlock toy, which was previously released in green-and-black and looked like robo-Godzilla, is getting a release in more traditional colors. He actually looks really good and I will probably buy him now. See, Hasbro? All you have to do is slavishly copy G1 at all times, and you've got my money. (As an aside, I find it a little sad that I just did an image search for "Robots in Disguise Grimlock" and I did not get a single picture of a steam shovel. How soon we forget.)

o There was artwork present at BotCon that seems to serve as a teaser for some upcoming products. It appears that there is a sub-line called "Titan Wars" that is coming in the future, perhaps following Combiner Wars. The meaning behind some of the artwork is questionable. Irrefutably, there was artwork of Fortress Maximus (it shows Cerebros with a cartoon face and Spike in his Headmaster exo-suit), a Headmaster version of Blaster, and what looks like a Headmaster version of Astrotrain, only with Optimus Prime's head. Not sure what to make of that. (I'm pleased that they're revisiting the Headmaster concept, but I'm not sure how I feel about the gimmick being applied to characters who were never Headmasters in the fiction.) There was also some other stuff, like a pilot in a little car and a pilot inside a little ship, whose meanings are not clear to me.

o At the Hasbro brand panel, there were (finally!) full-color photos of the Combiner Wars versions of Ironhide, Sunstreaker, Prowl, and Mirage. They're meant to go with a Voyager redeco of Optimus Prime called Battle Core Optimus who is mostly white with gold and grey trim, looking a little like the G1 Ultra Magnus cab section. Maybe there will be third-party Magnus armor for him later; who knows? Ironhide looks like a straight redeco of Offroad with a new head. Mirage might have been mistransformed, since he was shown with the F1 vehicle hood on his back, and I cannot believe for a second that the toy wasn't intended to have that as his chest. As expected, Prowl is a Streetwise redeco with a new head and a black-and-white motif for vehicle mode. Sunstreaker is a straight Breakdown redeco with a new head, but no other remolding in evidence (they also forgot to attach the fist/foot to his back to complete the look).

o There were also pictures of Leader-class Starscream, a redeco of Thundercracker which includes his coronation crown from The Transformers: the Movie.

o Upcoming subscription toys for the Transformers Collectors Club include Universe Ramjet, a redeco of the Deluxe-class Armada Starscream from 2014. The 2016 club exclusive is Universe Skywarp--both of them with the mohawk helmet. They're also doing G.I. Joe figures of human Arcee and human Rodimus from "Only Human." They're also doing their own Combiner Wars set called Mayhem Maximus, who is comprised of Windsweeper (redeco of Skydive), Ruckus (redeco of Offroad), Spinister (redeco of Alpha Bravo with a couple of Scoop Targetmasters), Needlenose (redeco of Firefly with another couple of Scoop Targetmasters), with a Voyager-class Bludgeon as the body (redeco of Combiner Wars Onslaught). They really do just want us to buy these same Combiner Wars toys over and over and over, don't they?

o Hasbro's physical product display for upcoming toys included Legends-class versions of Shockwave (tiny, ostensibly so he can be held as a gun by Bruticus), Pipes (straight Huffer redeco, no remolded head), Chop Shop (a great-looking redeco of Skrapnel with a new head sculpt), and Wreck-Gar (looks like a redeco or a remold of the Combiner Wars Groove toy). There's also a Buzzsaw toy that turns into an I-don't-know-what. A smartphone or tablet of some sort, apparently.

o Bruticus is slated for a Spring 2016 release, and all the Combaticons got a full reveal. I have read that there is going to be a running change on their color schemes: Hasbro plans to do a G1 toy-accurate version and also a Sunbow cartoon-accurate color version (one has a brown Bruticus chest shield, the other has a grey one). Onslaught, not surprisingly, is an extensive remold of Hot Spot. He looks really good. Vortex is, of course, an Alpha Bravo redeco, but they went crazy with his colors--he's all grey and purple and teal and red and yellow, I think because they were trying to copy the G1 toy's consumer-applied stickers. It's kind of ghastly. Brawl is an ALL-NEW TOY, not the sad redeco/remold of Rook that I'd been bracing myself for. He's got treads for arms! He's beautiful! I can't help but wonder how they're going to recycle him, but I don't care! I was prepared for the possibility that Blast Off might be an Aerialbot redeco, and they picked Quickslinger, right down to the Slingshot head. I really wish he'd gotten a new head sculpt. So it's actually Swindle who is going to be the recycled Rook toy, with an extensively rebuilt vehicle mode. Four wheels instead of six, and an open cabin with a rollbar. You can tell they tried to do something with the robot mode... he's got the headlights-and-grill pelvis design. Not much they could have done with the chest, sadly.

o Okay, here's some crazy news. They're doing yet another Autobot combiner with Sky Lynx as the Voyager who forms the body. He looks really good, and can transform from space shuttle mode to his quadrupedal bird mode (no separate dinobird and lynx modes, apparently) and also changes into the body of Sky Reign. Wreck-Gar is meant to go with this toy. The new limbs are Wheeljack (a re-shelled and heavily retooled Breakdown with a wonderful new head sculpt), Hound (a redeco of Swindle with a new head), Smokescreen (looks like a straight redeco of Prowl... same roof lights, same head) and Trailbreaker (straight Offroad redeco with a new head). It's an odd menagerie of characters, to be sure... but Wheeljack and Sky Lynx were good buddies in Marvel Comics, so why the hell not? I really like the look of Sky Lynx! It's such a great tribute! In some ways, the Sky Reign Autobots look even better than the Optimus Maximus Autobots. Hound is probably the weakest of the four. I'm astounded at how well Wheeljack works. Trailbreaker has a gun-arm!

It's like Hasbro finally found my G1-spot and they just keep tickling it. Over and over and over.


Zob

[Cappeca]

Em domingo, 21 de junho de 2015 00:38:19 UTC-3, Zobovor escreveu:
> o Takara showed off full-color photos of Masterpiece Ironhide. He includes his battle station, as per the G1 toy, but in robot mode he has a conventional humanoid design as well as a head. Accessories include his "sonidar sensor" from "S.O.S. Dinobots" and multiple hand replacements. My guess is that Ratchet is an inevitability. I'm very happy about this. I've wanted to see these two for a while now.
>

I can't express how the future, as it unravels, has been a delight compared to the old days in this place. Yes, we have a boxy Ironhide Masterpiece, with all the silliness of the old cartoon model, the one that was bashed over and over around here for it's simplicity. Ten years later people who had all the answers have absolutelly no clue. I feel indirectly avenged.

[mathewi...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 11:38:19 PM UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:
> o There was artwork present at BotCon that seems to serve as a teaser for some upcoming products. It appears that there is a sub-line called "Titan Wars" that is coming in the future, perhaps following Combiner Wars. The meaning behind some of the artwork is questionable. Irrefutably, there was artwork of Fortress Maximus (it shows Cerebros with a cartoon face and Spike in his Headmaster exo-suit), a Headmaster version of Blaster, and what looks like a Headmaster version of Astrotrain, only with Optimus Prime's head. Not sure what to make of that. (I'm pleased that they're revisiting the Headmaster concept, but I'm not sure how I feel about the gimmick being applied to characters who were never Headmasters in the fiction.) There was also some other stuff, like a pilot in a little car and a pilot inside a little ship, whose meanings are not clear to me.

Perhaps this "Astrotrain" you saw was really Galaxy Shuttle? He was an Autobot from Transformers Victory, who was the size of a combiner in the TV series, turned into a space shuttle?

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Galaxy_Shuttle

Rik Alvarez was interviewed a couple months ago and he talked about how they planned to do titans before he left. Metroplex was to be the first, and there were two other Autobots planned after him. So I'm gussing Fort Max and Galaxy Shuttle.

> o At the Hasbro brand panel, there were (finally!) full-color photos of the Combiner Wars versions of Ironhide, Sunstreaker, Prowl, and Mirage. They're meant to go with a Voyager redeco of Optimus Prime called Battle Core Optimus who is mostly white with gold and grey trim, looking a little like the G1 Ultra Magnus cab section. Maybe there will be third-party Magnus armor for him later; who knows? Ironhide looks like a straight redeco of Offroad with a new head. Mirage might have been mistransformed, since he was shown with the F1 vehicle hood on his back, and I cannot believe for a second that the toy wasn't intended to have that as his chest. As expected, Prowl is a Streetwise redeco with a new head and a black-and-white motif for vehicle mode. Sunstreaker is a straight Breakdown redeco with a new head, but no other remolding in evidence (they also forgot to attach the fist/foot to his back to complete the look).

I think Battle Core Optimus Prime looks like Nova Prime.

> o Upcoming subscription toys for the Transformers Collectors Club include Universe Ramjet, a redeco of the Deluxe-class Armada Starscream from 2014. The 2016 club exclusive is Universe Skywarp--both of them with the mohawk helmet. They're also doing G.I. Joe figures of human Arcee and human Rodimus from "Only Human." They're also doing their own Combiner Wars set called Mayhem Maximus, who is comprised of Windsweeper (redeco of Skydive), Ruckus (redeco of Offroad), Spinister (redeco of Alpha Bravo with a couple of Scoop Targetmasters), Needlenose (redeco of Firefly with another couple of Scoop Targetmasters), with a Voyager-class Bludgeon as the body (redeco of Combiner Wars Onslaught). They really do just want us to buy these same Combiner Wars toys over and over and over, don't they?

I would pass on Ramjet and Skywarp because I own the Armada toys, and like them better, they have Mini-Cons and are larger.

I notice that Bludgeon has his inner robot head. I bet you his combined form uses the Pretender robot head.

> o Okay, here's some crazy news. They're doing yet another Autobot combiner with Sky Lynx as the Voyager who forms the body. He looks really good, and can transform from space shuttle mode to his quadrupedal bird mode (no separate dinobird and lynx modes, apparently) and also changes into the body of Sky Reign. Wreck-Gar is meant to go with this toy. The new limbs are Wheeljack (a re-shelled and heavily retooled Breakdown with a wonderful new head sculpt), Hound (a redeco of Swindle with a new head), Smokescreen (looks like a straight redeco of Prowl... same roof lights, same head) and Trailbreaker (straight Offroad redeco with a new head). It's an odd menagerie of characters, to be sure... but Wheeljack and Sky Lynx were good buddies in Marvel Comics, so why the hell not? I really like the look of Sky Lynx! It's such a great tribute! In some ways, the Sky Reign Autobots look even better than the Optimus Maximus Autobots. Hound is probably the weakest of the four. I'm astounded at how well Wheeljack works. Trailbreaker has a gun-arm!

Did you notice the combiner mode head is the lynx head from Sky Lynx?

> It's like Hasbro finally found my G1-spot and they just keep tickling it. Over and over and over.

If it wasn't for Titan Wars NOTHING Hasbro announced was an homage to anything past 1986. That's why the club seems safe to do guys from 1987 and up. Over half of G1 still goes mostly ignored.

I heard people asked if the club planned to go G2 Combiner wars, and they said it would depend on if Hasbro did it. If Hasbro didn't do them, they might.

Mathew

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 11:59:48 AM UTC-6, mathewi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Perhaps this "Astrotrain" you saw was really Galaxy Shuttle?

Possible. Maybe it's Super GoBots Spay-C. Seems to me the toy is surely going to be used multiple times, regardless. Except for the head, it reads as Astrotrain to my eyes.

> I notice that Bludgeon has his inner robot head. I bet you his combined form
> uses the Pretender robot head.

The Triggercons and Targetmasters are pretty good, but I think Bludgeon looks horrible. He's just this terrible mish-mash of colors and doesn't capture the character at all.

> Did you notice the combiner mode head is the lynx head from Sky Lynx?

I've read that apparently Sky Lynx can transform into the lynx, too.

> If it wasn't for Titan Wars NOTHING Hasbro announced was an homage to
> anything past 1986. That's why the club seems safe to do guys from 1987 and
> up. Over half of G1 still goes mostly ignored.

It's not surprising that Hasbro tends to do fewer character tributes for the brand at the point after the cartoon went off the air. The target audience for the club is hardcore fans, who are more likely to recognize and appreciate new versions of Octopunch and Jackpot and such.

When Hasbro does step beyond the narrow window of 1984-85 G1 and tries to market something different at retail, well... by a show of hands, whose local stores are still stuffed chock-full of Generations Rattraps and Tankors?

> I heard people asked if the club planned to go G2 Combiner wars, and they
> said it would depend on if Hasbro did it. If Hasbro didn't do them, they
> might.

There's teaser artwork floating around the Interwebs of Combiner Wars Superion in G2 colors, and photos of a blue G2 version of Air Raid. It appears that Hasbro is already cooking something up.


Zob (seriously, though, how many times do they expect us to buy these same damn toys?!)

[Zobovor]

On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 9:38:19 PM UTC-6, Zobovor wrote:

> Tokyo Toy Show was also on June 19th, so there was new information revealed
> there, too.

One major piece of news that I missed is that Takara's doing a Masterpiece Optimus Primal from Beast Wars. I've only seen photos of the gorilla mode so far, but it's incredibly accurate to the CGI model. The beast mode is seamless and smooth. It's really incredible. I'm sure the robot mode is boffo, too. I sure wouldn't mind seeing some other characters like Dinobot get this treatment!

> There seems to be speculation (or wishful thinking) that Hasbro's version
> will be like this, too, though I suspect it's probably too late for that now.

Apparently the official party line is that Hasbro and Takara mutually agreed to go in different directions with Devastator for their respective markets. So, no, Hasbro will not be selling this edition of the toy. (I'm already spending $150 on it regardless, so even if the Takara version is, say, $200, that's definitely the version I want to get.)

> There was artwork of Fortress Maximus (it shows Cerebros with a cartoon face

> and Spike in his Headmaster exo-suit), a Headmaster version of Blaster

Closer inspection of the line art for Fortress Maximus reveals that it's very likely going to be a heavy retool of Titan-class Metroplex. He's got similar forearms and parts of the lower legs, though there's so much that's been substantially reworked that it might as well be an all-new toy. I'm trying to contain the tendency towards disappointment, because it some ways it makes sense--with Metroplex, they already worked out the tensile strength needed for the hip joints to allow the toy to stand up, they already conducted drop testing to see how a toy of this size and weight would hold up, etc. It seems silly to throw that all out the window and start from scratch. My only concern is whether the Fortress Maximus toy would essentialy copy the Metroplex transformation, since Fort Max's original city and battle station configurations were radically different.

> o Hasbro's physical product display for upcoming toys included Legends-class
> versions of Shockwave

Like Bruticus, Shockwave was also described as having a running change, so there will be both a G1 toy inspired version and a cartoon-colored version (lighter purple, I guess?).


Zob (hitting information overload)

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 4:49:57 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 9:38:19 PM UTC-6, Zobovor wrote:
>
> > Tokyo Toy Show was also on June 19th, so there was new information revealed
> > there, too.
>
> One major piece of news that I missed is that Takara's doing a Masterpiece Optimus Primal from Beast Wars. I've only seen photos of the gorilla mode so far, but it's incredibly accurate to the CGI model. The beast mode is seamless and smooth. It's really incredible. I'm sure the robot mode is boffo, too. I sure wouldn't mind seeing some other characters like Dinobot get this treatment!

I'm less excited by Masterpiece BW characters than G1. For the most part, the original toys were quite good, and captured the characters well, in a way that G1 didn't (Ironhide, for instance, is lovely but shares little in common with the cartoon model.

Beast Machines, however, has a lot of possibilities.

> > There seems to be speculation (or wishful thinking) that Hasbro's version
> > will be like this, too, though I suspect it's probably too late for that now.
>
> Apparently the official party line is that Hasbro and Takara mutually agreed to go in different directions with Devastator for their respective markets. So, no, Hasbro will not be selling this edition of the toy. (I'm already spending $150 on it regardless, so even if the Takara version is, say, $200, that's definitely the version I want to get.)

Sigh.

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 6:35:09 AM UTC-6, Cappeca wrote:

> I can't express how the future, as it unravels, has been a delight compared
> to the old days in this place. Yes, we have a boxy Ironhide Masterpiece, with
> all the silliness of the old cartoon model, the one that was bashed over and
> over around here for it's simplicity. Ten years later people who had all the
> answers have absolutelly no clue.

"G1 = boxes. Boxes = easy to draw. Therefore, G1 sucks."

Back around 2003 or so, people used to take me to task for hating Armada and generally being a stubborn G1 fanboy. It was a half-assed cartoon supporting a half-assed (or, generously, a three-quarter assed) toy line, but people just constantly made excuse after excuse. It was garbage and I got attacked for calling it garbage.

In some ways, Transformers is still plagued by poor quality (the completely lowbrow life-action films, which will never be mistaken for fine art; the general cheapness of modern-day Hasbro toys) but at the same time, Hasbro seems to have finally come to recognize the utter gold mine that is G1 and its mythos, and how much people truly, sincerely, unabashedly love these characters and the universe they inhabit. (To their credit, I think Takara probably already knew this.) Hasbro is finally showing G1 some respect. They recognize that it's a huge cash cow and that there are people who will spend money on new toys that celebrate it.

I'm hoping that the days where they just slap a kinda-sorta decent head sculpt on a wholly irrelevant toy and go "here you go, here's your G1 Screwloose update, now shut up" are long over.


Zob

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 8:38:19 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> o TakaraTomy's version of the Combiner Wars Constructicons all have articulated elbows, as opposed to the versions showcased by Hasbro where Scrapper and Long Haul have lacked hinge joints at the mid-arm. There seems to be speculation (or wishful thinking) that Hasbro's version will be like this, too, though I suspect it's probably too late for that now. The Takara versions of the Constructicons are also getting rifles based on their G1 accessories. Makes me really want this version, now.

Does this affect the stability of anything?

> o There is a new show-accurate Beast Wars Blackarachnia coming for the Japanese market as part of the "Transformers Legends" series. She looks like she's based on the Transformers: Animated toy, but she's been partially remolded and includes a new head sculpt and some seriously large boobs. It's not perfect, obviously, but it's a really good effort.

Are the boobs not quite big enough?

TF:Animated Blackarachnia is a great toy, and I would have thought a little paint would be all that was required to make a BW Blackarachnia out of her. I'm a little excited to see what they come up with.

> The only thing that really caught my eye is that the Deluxe-scale Grimlock toy, which was previously released in green-and-black and looked like robo-Godzilla, is getting a release in more traditional colors. He actually looks really good and I will probably buy him now. See, Hasbro? All you have to do is slavishly copy G1 at all times, and you've got my money.

He's like a transforming Robot Heroes toy. I wish they changed the head to be more G1.

> (As an aside, I find it a little sad that I just did an image search for "Robots in Disguise Grimlock" and I did not get a single picture of a steam shovel. How soon we forget.)

At least the current Grimlock got the color scheme...

> o There was artwork present at BotCon that seems to serve as a teaser for some upcoming products.

Sure, sure, flat linework.

> o At the Hasbro brand panel, there were (finally!) full-color photos of the Combiner Wars versions of Ironhide, Sunstreaker, Prowl, and Mirage. They're meant to go with a Voyager redeco of Optimus Prime called Battle Core Optimus who is mostly white with gold and grey trim, looking a little like the G1 Ultra Magnus cab section.

The head looks very off.

> o There were also pictures of Leader-class Starscream, a redeco of Thundercracker which includes his coronation crown from The Transformers: the Movie.

Ah, yes, that scene in the movie where he transformed into an F-22 and had a crown...

> o Upcoming subscription toys for the Transformers Collectors Club include Universe Ramjet, a redeco of the Deluxe-class Armada Starscream from 2014. The 2016 club exclusive is Universe Skywarp--both of them with the mohawk helmet.

I do love the Generations Armada Starscream mold, but I don't feel compelled to get these.

> o Bruticus is slated for a Spring 2016 release, and all the Combaticons got a full reveal. I have read that there is going to be a running change on their color schemes: Hasbro plans to do a G1 toy-accurate version and also a Sunbow cartoon-accurate color version (one has a brown Bruticus chest shield, the other has a grey one). Onslaught, not surprisingly, is an extensive remold of Hot Spot. He looks really good.

The vehicle mode is completely backwards compared to Hot Spot. Stuff like that makes me want to buy both more than two different molds would.

> o Okay, here's some crazy news. They're doing yet another Autobot combiner with Sky Lynx as the Voyager who forms the body. He looks really good, and can transform from space shuttle mode to his quadrupedal bird mode (no separate dinobird and lynx modes, apparently) and also changes into the body of Sky Reign.

He looks great.

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 12:00:56 AM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 6:35:09 AM UTC-6, Cappeca wrote:
>
> > I can't express how the future, as it unravels, has been a delight compared
> > to the old days in this place. Yes, we have a boxy Ironhide Masterpiece, with
> > all the silliness of the old cartoon model, the one that was bashed over and
> > over around here for it's simplicity. Ten years later people who had all the
> > answers have absolutelly no clue.
>
> "G1 = boxes. Boxes = easy to draw. Therefore, G1 sucks."
>
> Back around 2003 or so, people used to take me to task for hating Armada and generally being a stubborn G1 fanboy. It was a half-assed cartoon supporting a half-assed (or, generously, a three-quarter assed) toy line, but people just constantly made excuse after excuse. It was garbage and I got attacked for calling it garbage.

The toy line is great, and you are a fool not to see it. There are a few stinkers like every toyline (except the TransMetals) have, but they are fun, exciting toys. Just not complicated transformations.

[Shin Hibiki]

Zobovor <zm...@aol.com> wrote:

>o At the Hasbro brand panel, there were (finally!) full-color photos of the Combiner Wars versions of Ironhide, Sunstreaker, Prowl, and Mirage. They're meant to go with a Voyager redeco of Optimus Prime called Battle Core Optimus who is mostly white with gold and grey trim, looking a little like the G1 Ultra Magnus cab section. Maybe there will be third-party Magnus armor for him later; who knows? Ironhide looks like a straight redeco of Offroad with a new head. Mirage might have been mistransformed, since he was shown with the F1 vehicle hood on his back, and I cannot believe for a second that the toy wasn't intended to have that as his chest. As expected, Prowl is a Streetwise redeco with a new head and a black-and-white motif for vehicle mode. Sunstreaker is a straight Breakdown redeco with a new head, but no other remolding in evidence (they also forgot to attach the fist/foot to his back to complete the look).

I'll be saving some money by not buying these guys. Original
combiner dudes, totally. Forcing non-combiner dudes to be combiners
in order to crank out more retools, not so much. I realize that they
are crazy about wanting to spread out the production costs, but that
doesn't mean I have to play along.

- Shin Hibiki

----
The race ain't over yet, baby
It's only just begun
They thought they had it won, baby
But soon we'll have 'em on the run

[Cappeca]

Em segunda-feira, 22 de junho de 2015 03:55:10 UTC-3, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats escreveu:
> On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 4:49:57 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 9:38:19 PM UTC-6, Zobovor wrote:
> >
> > > Tokyo Toy Show was also on June 19th, so there was new information revealed
> > > there, too.
> >
> > One major piece of news that I missed is that Takara's doing a Masterpiece Optimus Primal from Beast Wars. I've only seen photos of the gorilla mode so far, but it's incredibly accurate to the CGI model. The beast mode is seamless and smooth. It's really incredible. I'm sure the robot mode is boffo, too. I sure wouldn't mind seeing some other characters like Dinobot get this treatment!
>
> I'm less excited by Masterpiece BW characters than G1. For the most part, the original toys were quite good, and captured the characters well, in a way that G1 didn't (Ironhide, for instance, is lovely but shares little in common with the cartoon model.
>

Not only that, but it also derails the MP line, and for 5 releases a year, that means a lot. Do they have a long term plan for MPs? When do they intend to finish releasing the whole Ark crew, by 2024? Cool, the main 40th aniversary is Masterpiece Trailbreaker, and I'll have to decide between that and my colonoscopy.

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 5:19:21 AM UTC-5, Cappeca wrote:
>> the main 40th aniversary is Masterpiece Trailbreaker, and I'll have to decide between that and my colonoscopy.

One seems like much more fun than the other

[Travoltron]

On 6/20/2015 8:38 PM, Zobovor wrote:
> Optimus who is mostly white with gold and grey

So I researched this. Apparently this design (w/new head) is based on
some guy from the new comics called Nova Prime.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:PrimusAllGoodThings-introdump.jpg

I guess somebody at Hasbro chickened out at the last minute and decided
to make him yet another Optimus Prime figure.

[Zobovor]

On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 12:12:41 PM UTC-6, Travoltron wrote:

> So I researched this. Apparently this design (w/new head) is based on
> some guy from the new comics called Nova Prime.

Combiner Wars Optimus Prime is already a major shelfwarmer. Now Hasbro's going to sell us the same exact toy, only with completely wrong and unrecognizable colors?


Zob (two words, and they rhyme with "clearance fodder")

[Zobovor]

On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 1:08:36 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> Does this affect the stability of anything?

They had the Takara Devastator on display, and it appeared to be able to stand up under its own weight.

> The vehicle mode is completely backwards compared to Hot Spot. Stuff like
> that makes me want to buy both more than two different molds would.

I have to admit it's creative!


Zob (and if any two different G1 toys can get away with sharing a single mold in the new toy line, it's Hot Spot and Onslaught)

[Zobovor]

On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 1:12:45 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> The toy line is great, and you are a fool not to see it.

I'm not really talking about the empirical quality of the toys. I am reminded of many toys that fell apart when I tried to transform them, but that's not the reason I disliked Armada so strongly.

It was produced at the height of Hasbro's trademark recycling. It really offended me that they were calling these characters Cyclonus and Scavenger and Blurr and Thrust. It's one thing to give us something like Animated Blurr. He's obviously not the very same exact character as G1 Blurr, but he follows the same character archetype and he was created in tribute to the G1 character. Something like Armada Blurr? No resemblance.

The cartoon show was bad. It was so, so horribly bad. I tried very, very hard to enjoy it and it just got worse the more episodes I watched. The voice actors didn't care about the show and it came across in their lackluster voice delivery. The writers clearly didn't care about even getting the names of the characters right. I'm going to refute the inevitable "G1 sucked too" argument with a counter-argument: Originally, Hasbro was going to introduce a character named Jetfire, but Takara didn't want that toy advertised on the show, so they hastily redesigned him into Skyfire. There is evidence that the character was being called Jetfire and new recording sessions were required to replace the dialogue. Not just the Sunbow "Fire in the Sky" cartoon episode but even the Rockbill, Ltd. Car-Tune cassette tape adventures. I love that they took the time to correct this.

I love the Unicron toy and I'm so glad that the Armada line gave it to us. That is literally the single saving grace of the toy line, to me.


Zob

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 8:40:08 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 1:12:45 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
> > The toy line is great, and you are a fool not to see it.
>
> I'm not really talking about the empirical quality of the toys. I am reminded of many toys that fell apart when I tried to transform them, but that's not the reason I disliked Armada so strongly.

I recall a few crappy Minicon teams that fell apart, and Thrust just sucked. Beyond that, it was a really nice line.

> It was produced at the height of Hasbro's trademark recycling. It really offended me that they were calling these characters Cyclonus and Scavenger and Blurr and Thrust. It's one thing to give us something like Animated Blurr. He's obviously not the very same exact character as G1 Blurr, but he follows the same character archetype and he was created in tribute to the G1 character. Something like Armada Blurr? No resemblance.

Alternate universe Zobovor bears no resemblance to this universe's Zobovor. He's a great conqueror, who has destroyed those who opposed him, and while he enslaved the weak, he gave them excellent health care and raised their standard of living to the point where most of them had more freedoms than they did before his ruthless and bloody coup...

> The cartoon show was bad. It was so, so horribly bad. I tried very, very hard to enjoy it and it just got worse the more episodes I watched.

I honestly think it was the best of the Unicron trilogy. Which is very, very faint praise. The concept of the series was excellent, and the execution was all over the place.

> The voice actors didn't care about the show and it came across in their lackluster voice delivery.

Ah, professionalism.

> The writers clearly didn't care about even getting the names of the characters right.

I like to think that Optimus just didn't give a shit about his Minicon, and couldn't be bothered to learn his name. Or he thought Leader-1 was a title.

> I'm going to refute the inevitable "G1 sucked too" argument with a counter-argument: Originally, Hasbro was going to introduce a character named Jetfire, but Takara didn't want that toy advertised on the show, so they hastily redesigned him into Skyfire. There is evidence that the character was being called Jetfire and new recording sessions were required to replace the dialogue. Not just the Sunbow "Fire in the Sky" cartoon episode but even the Rockbill, Ltd. Car-Tune cassette tape adventures. I love that they took the time to correct this.

Compared to shows of its time, G1 was above average, while Armada was well below average. Also, G1 was a consistently better show than Armada.

> I love the Unicron toy and I'm so glad that the Armada line gave it to us. That is literally the single saving grace of the toy line, to me.

Cyclonus is so amazingly fun. Hot Shot has no shoulders, but is still very solid. Megatron is great. Supercon Optimus is one of the truly great Optimus toys. Sideswipe was a complete piece of shit.

[Travoltron]

On 6/23/2015 12:00 AM, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> Beyond that, it was a really nice line.

I hated that Superpants Optimus. I never could get that damn thing to
work the way it was supposed to.

[I. R. Caughn]

On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 11:38:19 PM UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:
>
>

> The Takara versions of the Constructicons are also getting rifles based on their G1 accessories. Makes me really want this version, now.

I really wish I didn't know about the Takara-exclusive rifles. Such a nagging pain in the aft... I generally don't seek out the Japanese stuff unless it's a character that will unequivocally *never* be released on this continent (TF:A Blackout was pretty much the only instance in the last decade... and TF:P Breakdown is still on my to-do list, though I gather he fetches ungodly sums now... bleh), but the knowledge that Hasbro Devastator isn't "complete" feels like it's going to taint what should otherwise have been a euphoric purchasing experience...

... does the Hasbro Devastator not have *any* guns at all for the individual Constructicons, or is it just that they're less G1-accurate guns? Utter gunlessness seems pretty daft for a Titan-class toy...

> Irrefutably, there was artwork of Fortress Maximus (it shows Cerebros with a cartoon face and Spike in his Headmaster exo-suit)
>

Hm... if this really is a remold of CHURG Metroplex, I'm mildly perplexed as to how they'd actually integrate a proper Cerebros component into that design... unless Cerebros and Spike are just painfully tiny and fidgety... like CHURG Arcana, but moreso...

> o There were also pictures of Leader-class Starscream, a redeco of Thundercracker which includes his coronation crown from The Transformers: the Movie.

Oooh... nice of them to throw the crown in there to sweeten the repaint pot on the third go-round. Is it too much to ask that the fourth iteration Skywarp version come with some bouncer bombs...?

> There's also a Buzzsaw toy that turns into an I-don't-know- > what. A smartphone or tablet of some sort, apparently.
>

I'm assuming his other mode is a condor, then? Strange move if they're really originating the mold with Buzzsaw, rather than Laserbeak. If that's really the case, it'd be cool if they actually *didn't* repaint it into 'Beakie. The sacrosanct repaint pairings are getting a little tiresome... I'd rather Buzzsaw branched out on his (her?) own, perhaps with some backstory about rebelling against Soundwave and re-scanning a non-submissive independent device mode.

> o Bruticus is slated for a Spring 2016 release, and all the Combaticons got a full reveal. I have read that there is going to be a running change on their color schemes: Hasbro plans to do a G1 toy-accurate version and also a Sunbow cartoon-accurate color version (one has a brown Bruticus chest shield, the other has a grey one).

Spiffy... definitely holding out for the Sunbow versions, then. With my luck, they'll turn out to be the later-wave-shortpacked-web-exclusive-chase-figures...

> Brawl is an ALL-NEW TOY, not the sad redeco/remold of Rook that I'd been bracing myself for. He's got treads for arms! He's beautiful! I can't help but wonder how they're going to recycle him, but I don't care!

Could they make him into a serviceable Nosecone? The arm treads seem appropriate, though I assume it'd require a pretty dramatic remold job to actually outfit the front of the tank with a drill. I'd guess I'd be relatively okay with a drill mounted on Brawl's turret... though you'd imagine that would severely hinder Nosecone's ability to operate as a tunneling vehicle... <shrugs>

(I'd examine the pictures myself to evaluate how suitable the mold would be for Nosecone, but lately, I've trained myself not to look at preview images too closely [or at all, if I can avoid them]... yeah, I've decided that "toy spoilers" are a thing. I dunno, in the twilight of my collecting career, I kinda feel the need to delay the gratification of learning toy details until I actually open the package. Now... you could argue that replying to a thread about Botcon pictures would be asking for trouble if I'm really trying to stick to such a vow... aaand you'd probably have a point)

> I was prepared for the possibility that Blast Off might be an Aerialbot redeco, and they picked Quickslinger, right down to the Slingshot head. I really wish he'd gotten a new head sculpt.

Urrrgh... that's even worse than I had feared! Other than Vortex, Blast Off's my favourite Combaticon (errmm... maybe tied for second with Onslaught), so such a bastardized non-tribute is a serious bummer-- Blast Off looks absolutely nothing like Slingshot! They didn't even try to fudge a faceplate with paint or whatnot...?

In some ways, I'd almost rather they just replaced Blast Off with a new recruit (perhaps a transfer from the Military Patrol). Even though the mold's gonna be a bit tired by then, I would have bought the Offroad/First Aid/Ironhide mold again if they added some artillery to the top and called it Dropshot or Growl...

In any case, it *is* pretty awesome that they're continuing to release so many Combiner teams (especially if the Technobot thing turns out to be legit). If they keep this thing going through 2016, kids could really build up a pretty awe-inspiring array of Scramble City permutations. Now all they need is a set of Predacons or Terrorcons to really start mixing up the motifs a bit... or dare I hope for an updated Monstructor...?

J (he *has* been a pretty major player in the IDW books for years now... if nothing else, it'd give Hasbro an actual legitimate excuse to use ancient comics as Deluxe toy pack-ins...)

[Cappeca]

I did, though I don't like toys that play with themselves. It was nice to see him going "Suuuuupah Modo!" while transforming the trailer, for a couple of times.

[Cappeca]

Em terça-feira, 23 de junho de 2015 00:40:08 UTC-3, Zobovor escreveu:
>
> It was produced at the height of Hasbro's trademark recycling. It really offended me that they were calling these characters Cyclonus and Scavenger and Blurr and Thrust. It's one thing to give us something like Animated Blurr. He's obviously not the very same exact character as G1 Blurr, but he follows the same character archetype and he was created in tribute to the G1 character. Something like Armada Blurr? No resemblance.

It was the first of many. I understand the huge impact at the time, but you might give it some credit in hindsight. One thing we didn't see back then was that everything Armada was doing would become the standard. It was confirming a trend initiated with Beast Wars. Animated Blurr is a selective argument, considering how Animated Wreck-Gar, Blitzwing, Prowl and Constructicons were different from G1. I'm not going "Transformers is about change" either, since I *do* expect the recycling of names to be a recycling of personalities or attributes, as much as I expect the same from other series like Spider-Man 2099 or Batman from the Future, and as much as I expected it from the Bayverse. But I see it more as a meta-concept now; it's not the show's fault, it's Hasbro's - they saw their product differently than we did, and they knew all along what they were doing. Applying wrong names to wrong characters is a reason to hate Armada, but not to hate Armada "alone".

> I'm going to refute the inevitable "G1 sucked too" argument with a counter-argument: Originally, Hasbro was going to introduce a character named Jetfire, but Takara didn't want that toy advertised on the show, so they hastily redesigned him into Skyfire. There is evidence that the character was being called Jetfire and new recording sessions were required to replace the dialogue. Not just the Sunbow "Fire in the Sky" cartoon episode but even the Rockbill, Ltd. Car-Tune cassette tape adventures. I love that they took the time to correct this.
>

Yeah, but it was still Jetfire in the Marvel Comics. And Rumble, naturally, is red. But I agree with you, and I'd refute the argument differently: G1 had a *right* to suck, to really suck ass, it had a given right to suck balls and fail miserably, because it was the FIRST. Nobody knew how to do it, nobody had any idea how to sinchronize cartoons and comics and toys being produced in the US at the same as in Japan, nobody believed the thing would last as much as it did and grow from a commercial campaing to a fictional universe as much as it did. And yet, they still tried. They tried their best and I'm thankful for what they did.

Every other series after that, be it Armada, Beast Machines, japanese Headmasters, Energon, the DW comic run, they had absolutely no right to suck, because everything they needed was very well in place. The formula was there. Every disaster that happened with these series was not due to inexperience, but to professional incompetence. From that perspective, I can't see Armada as a bad show. It had a good premise that was run to the ground because of poor decisions and poor execution. Maybe it's just me, but I *can* watch Armada and see beyond its flaws - more than I do with the Bayverse. I really like the Unicron Battles, simply because I see the small details where people actually cared about the series, even if they couldn't realize their vision at its full.

Back to the original subject, the point is, whether you think Armada sucks or I think the Bayverse sucks or someone still says "Trukk not Munky", we're more justified than people saying John Romita or Floro Dery designs suck. This new MP line with characters that simply stepped out of the TV is amazing, and Ironhide represents something made from an impossible concept. As if the new Arcee wasn't enough, this is a gigantic "thank you" to the people that tried their best, first, and succeeded.

[Zobovor]

On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 12:52:09 PM UTC-6, I. R. Caughn wrote:

> ... does the Hasbro Devastator not have *any* guns at all for the individual
> Constructicons, or is it just that they're less G1-accurate guns?

The combiner pieces for Devastator turn into weapons. Bonecrusher and Scavenger carry gigantic box-shaped launchers that are really Devastator's forearms; Hook carries a cannon that's the barrel for Devastator's gun; Mixmaster carries a dual-barreled blaster that's actually the center piece of Devastator's chest shield; etc.

The Takara toys have these parts but also get rifles that are based on the G1 guns, but are Voyager-scaled.

> Hm... if this really is a remold of CHURG Metroplex, I'm mildly perplexed as
> to how they'd actually integrate a proper Cerebros component into that
> design...

If the drawings of Cerebros and Spike are to scale with the Fort Max line art, then Cerebros looks like he comes about three-quarters of the way up to Fort Max's knee, and Spike is about the height of Fort Max's foot. My thinking is that for a revisited Headmasters concept to be successful, Spike would have to be interchangeable with Arcana from the new Brainstorm toy.

> Could they make him into a serviceable Nosecone? The arm treads seem
> appropriate, though I assume it'd require a pretty dramatic remold job to
> actually outfit the front of the tank with a drill.

Hasbro and Takara have shown some real talent and creativity with their ability to "re-shell" a toy. Brawl's tank turret still ends up on his back in robot mode, so I don't see why it couldn't be replaced with a drill assembly--something that swings down to cover the front of the tank, but can flip back for robot mode.

(I'm really glad I was wrong about Rook being used as a pseudo-Brawl.)

> ... yeah, I've decided that "toy spoilers" are a thing.

I totally feel you. I think I would prefer in advance to at least be aware of the existence of upcoming toys (so I can scrimp and save and have some money in reserve by the time they're finally released), but I don't want to see a photo gallery that details the transformation and all the things the toy can do. I want to discover those for myself!

> Blast Off looks absolutely nothing like Slingshot! They didn't even try to
> fudge a faceplate with paint or whatnot...?

Some folks on the message boards are holding out for the possibility that Hasbro just took a Quickslinger toy and painted it into Blast Off as a mock-up so they'd have something to photograph. I guess it's possible, but...

> Now all they need is a set of Predacons or Terrorcons to really start mixing
> up the motifs a bit... or dare I hope for an updated Monstructor...?

I was thinking about this the other day. Sinnertwin and Rippersnapper could easily be the same toy as each other, just with different monster heads and tails, and different front claws. You could almost get away with doing the same with Blot, but his monster head would have to flip up and end up on his back for robot mode. Cutthroat could be a heavily re-shelled Aerialbot, with a monster head instead of a nosecone and creature wings instead of jet wings.

Doing one creature team almost automatically opens the door for other creature teams, since the more of them they develop, the more similar-but-different creatures they can do.


Zob (sometimes pipe dreams are the best dreams)

[Zobovor]

On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 3:47:32 PM UTC-6, Cappeca wrote:

> Animated Blurr is a selective argument, considering how Animated Wreck-Gar,
> Blitzwing, Prowl and Constructicons were different from G1.

I generally dislike Animated, but even I have to appreciate that most of the revisited characters stayed true to their G1 counterparts. They were generally true to the original concepts and had the right colors schemes. Wreck-Gar wasn't a motorcycle, but the garbage truck still ties into the "junk" theme of the character. It's not wildly inappropriate. Blitzwing was still a purple and tan Triple Changer who was a tank and a jet. Concept art for Prowl showed that he was originally planned to be black and white, so he would have looked a lot more like G1 Prowl. The Constructicons were still construction vehicles who were green and purple.

The Animated characters weren't total violations of the original names. Armada Cyclonus was a blue helicopter, not a purple space jet. No relation to G1 Cyclonus. Armada Smokescreen was an orange crane, not a red-white-and-blue rally car. Armada Hoist was a white steam shovel, not a green tow truck. The rare times they did seem to actually be paying homage to G1 (Thundercracker, Scavenger) seemed like a happy accident. Their excuse about how they had to keep using those trademarks or they'd lose them forever? It just doesn't hold water now. I think it's the other way around. Hasbro already knew they held the rights to those names, and it was cheaper and easier to just keep on using them rather than being creative and coming up with new ones.

> This new MP line with characters that simply stepped out of the TV is
> amazing, and Ironhide represents something made from an impossible concept.

I know. He really is amazing. He's exactly the way I pictured he would be!


Zob (hopes the inevitable Masterpiece Ratchet comes with some tiny hot dogs)

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

That toy looked so much like it was going to suck that I skipped it for years. I eventually picked up a Powerlinx version off eBay (possibly when Chad Rushing was dumping his collection, or just the duplicates, or maybe the triplicates -- nice seller, by the way, completely OCD, so anything used is basically MIB although not MISB).

I just don't think of Superpants at all when considering the toyline, since he wasn't really part of my experience with the toyline.

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 5:02:01 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 3:47:32 PM UTC-6, Cappeca wrote:
>
> > Animated Blurr is a selective argument, considering how Animated Wreck-Gar,
> > Blitzwing, Prowl and Constructicons were different from G1.
>
> I generally dislike Animated, but even I have to appreciate that most of the revisited characters stayed true to their G1 counterparts. They were generally true to the original concepts and had the right colors schemes. Wreck-Gar wasn't a motorcycle, but the garbage truck still ties into the "junk" theme of the character. It's not wildly inappropriate. Blitzwing was still a purple and tan Triple Changer who was a tank and a jet. Concept art for Prowl showed that he was originally planned to be black and white, so he would have looked a lot more like G1 Prowl. The Constructicons were still construction vehicles who were green and purple.

That's the least interesting part of the originals to me. It's nice to have some overlapping design elements when the characters themselves are similar, but it's minor compared the the characters themselves.

I don't see any of the TF:Animated characters being similar to their G1 namesakes. I love animated, but they just went their own direction with characterization.

> The Animated characters weren't total violations of the original names. Armada Cyclonus was a blue helicopter, not a purple space jet. No relation to G1 Cyclonus.

It really is a better name for a helicopter though. A bit redundant since Vortex is already a helicopter name, but still better.

> Armada Smokescreen was an orange crane, not a red-white-and-blue rally car. Armada Hoist was a white steam shovel, not a green tow truck.

You're missing something very important here. Smokescreen had no smokescreens, but he did have a hoist, and when he was completely rebuilt he took the opportunity to name himself after his hoist. But by then, he had no hoist. He was just an idiot.

I assume that he was previously a red, white and blue rally car who could create smokescreens, and that he was named Propeller or something based on his previous alt-mode. Perhaps he named himself Protoform.

And, in the future, when he is rebuilt as something with no shovel on it, he will be Shovelboy or something.

I mean, the alternative is that they just pulled names out of a hat.

> > This new MP line with characters that simply stepped out of the TV is
> > amazing, and Ironhide represents something made from an impossible concept.
>
> I know. He really is amazing. He's exactly the way I pictured he would be!

Haven't really looked. I will likely eventually buy him, and want to be excited and surprised.

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 4:47:30 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 12:52:09 PM UTC-6, I. R. Caughn wrote:
>
> Some folks on the message boards are holding out for the possibility that Hasbro just took a Quickslinger toy and painted it into Blast Off as a mock-up so they'd have something to photograph. I guess it's possible, but...

It does seem weird that every other team would have someone replaced, but not the Combaticons.

Perhaps there will be a shuttle later that is named after some random Decepticon jet, available only online. I'd wait to see what comes out of Takara, since they are making their own GIANT MOTORCYCLE THE SIZE OF A HELICOPTER for Groove.

> > Now all they need is a set of Predacons or Terrorcons to really start mixing
> > up the motifs a bit... or dare I hope for an updated Monstructor...?
>
> I was thinking about this the other day. Sinnertwin and Rippersnapper could easily be the same toy as each other, just with different monster heads and tails, and different front claws. You could almost get away with doing the same with Blot, but his monster head would have to flip up and end up on his back for robot mode. Cutthroat could be a heavily re-shelled Aerialbot, with a monster head instead of a nosecone and creature wings instead of jet wings.
>
> Doing one creature team almost automatically opens the door for other creature teams, since the more of them they develop, the more similar-but-different creatures they can do.

I would love Seacons. I don't even care if they feel like they need to recolor them to be different on the shelves -- we will eventually get a set with the right colors.

Also, I secretly hope for a faux-G2 Seacon team is completely normal and sedate colors. God Neptune colors, maybe.

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 11:59:48 AM UTC-6, mathewi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Perhaps this "Astrotrain" you saw was really Galaxy Shuttle?

I feel vindicated now!


Zob (insert parenthetical remark here)