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Zob's Thoughts on Masterpiece Ironhide and Ratchet
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Zobovor (the Man with All the Toys)
Dec 27, 2017, 9:41:04 PM12/27/17
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Many of the toys that Hasbro collected together to create the Transformers toy line originated with the Diaclone toy line in Japan. They were conceived as machines that were operated by pilots, which is why a great many of the Transformers from 1984-85 came equipped with opening cockpits (even non-traditional "vehicles" like the Dinobots and Insecticons). When Hasbro opted to sell the toys in America, they gave each machine its own personality and removed the pilots from the equation altogether.
The only problem with this idea is that some of the machines really didn't look like they could function on their own. The Nissan Cherry Vanette model (which came in both a black civilian van and white ambulance flavor) separated into a battle station and a mecha intended to be piloted by an operator. The mecha had arms and legs but I would be hard pressed to describe it as humanoid, since the van's windshield continued to serve as a windscreen for the operator, who sat in a seat directly behind it. For the Transformers release, Hasbro created a sticker to cover the driver's seat with a strange, stylized robot face design on it.
When the Transformers characters were being developed for animation, a lot of the claws and masks were being swapped out for more human-looking hands and faces, to make the characters more relatable to the audience. The most drastic changes were made to Ironhide and Ratchet, redesigning their robot modes with a more humanoid aesthetic. The characters from cartoons and comics became a rather poor advertisement for the existing toys, and the 1984 toys became infamous for their oft-maligned, headless designs which fit poorly into the new Hasbro-mandated Transformers aesthetic.
The Masterpiece toys are, in many ways, an attempt to create authentic, accurate three-dimensional representations of the characters' animation models. This is a lot more difficult than it sounds, given the number of wheels, doors, and other details that were simplified, reduced in size, or even eliminated altogether for their designs, all in the name of making the characters easier to consistently animate. Some would call it an impossible task, but Takara has demonstrated that they're committed to the challenge, and a great many Masterpiece toys thus far have seemingly accomplished the impossible.
So, it's not just a matter of designing a van that can turn into a robot with a head. That much has been done a few times now. The challenge with this specific character design (and it really is a single character design; Ratchet and Ironhide are just variations on a theme) was to come up with a very generic-looking, boxy robot whose only visual signs that it could even change into anything vehicular at all are the windshield that forms the chest.
Ironhide is MP-27; Ratchet was released as MP-30 (their releases were staggered, with Ironhide released last year in January and Ratchet not being sold until April).
The design of the van mode is authentic to the first-generation Vanette model, which was first produced in 1978. It includes the distinctive high roof and the iconic twin square-shaped headlights (which replaced the original circular headlights to appear more "modern"). Ironhide is red, with the familiar orange stripes on each side which instantly peg this as the Ironhide character. Ratchet is white, with red stripes. Both toys have blue-tinted semi-translucent windows. Molded details suggest they have a sliding passenger door on the left side but not the right. They've got plenty of authentic details, including molded windshield wipers, door handles and key locks, and a gas door on the right rear quadrant. The only things missing are the side view mirrors (which would have been fragile and would have ruined the lines of the robot mode) and the manufacturer's Datsun logos.
Ironhide's got a Dark of the Moon style spring-loaded roof panel, designed so that you can attach one of his two laser pistols or his static laser gun. Ratchet has roof lights in that spot, so while he does have similar weapons options, you have to unfold a flip-out weapon port tucked away inside his roof that's somewhat difficult to reliably access. Both toys also have the ability to store a pair of laser pistols beneath their undercarriage. They're a little hard to get out afterwards. It's unfortunate that they can't store the static laser gun, since it was designed to look like the transmission system of the van mode when it's mounted to the undercarriage. Like all the Masterpiece editions of the Autobot Cars assortment, the wheels are plastic, not rubber.
As a vehicle, Ironhide fits perfectly into the trailer for Masterpiece Optimus Prime; it's an unspoken promise that all the Autobots based on Diaclone cars will enjoy this feature. Ratchet does too, but you have to push in his spring-loaded roof lights and lock them down to create enough clearance.
Also, there's a panel behind the windshield that looks suspiciously like the design of the Hasbro face sticker. I think somebody at Takara included it as a joke, perhaps realizing that there was no way to eliminate the plastic panel that was already there, so they might as well decorate it. It's arguably the goofiest design aspect of any Masterpiece toy to date.
Where the G1 toy actually split into two pieces to transform, the Masterpiece toy is a single unit that goes from van to robot. The broad strokes are the same; the windshield forms the chest, while the legs are formed from the bottom of the chassis. The cartoon models for these characters have absolutely no visible wheels or windows (except the windshield) in evidence, though, so a lot of tricks and cheats were employed to try to hide as much of the van as possible. The rear wheels tuck into the lower legs, with some flip-over panels hiding the stripes on the sides of the vehicle mode. The rear windows of the van actually flip all the way upside-down and hide behind the front windshield, with the robot head mounted upside-down near the rear of the van. The arms are fold-out panels forming the sides of the van, with the side windows more-or-less hidden on the back sides of the forearms. The front wheels fold over and tuck behind the pelvis and are hidden from most angles. It's preposterous how many hoops they were required to jump through to try to match the cartoon look for these robots.
The finished robot is about eight and a half inches tall, following the height guide from the cartoon which established Ironhide and Ratchet as shorter than Optimus Prime but taller than the other Autobot cars. The proportions of the body seem off, like the torso is too long for the length of the arms (on a human, the fingertips would come down to mid-thigh length). Also, the movement of the upper arms is restricted due to the design of the shoulder connector joint; they can raise their arms ninety degrees, but no more than that. Perhaps the most glaring design flaw is the presence of a pair of hip-plates that weren't part of the cartoon design, which are the leftover front wheel wells from van mode that, I guess, they couldn't figure out how to make disappear. (There are actually several third-party add-on kits that can replace these pieces with alternate parts, designed differently so that the fenders remain attached to the chest. Apparently, fans really, strongly dislike the erroneous hip plates.)
What distinguishes Ironhide's design most significantly from Ratchet's is that Ironhide's helmet has a mohawk design, while Ratchet wears boomerang-shaped forehead crest. The face sculpts are good, but they're not perfect. I feel like the eyes are too small and the thickness of the helmets is too thin. Ironhide gets an alternate, swappable angry face; Ratchet's extra face is in an open-mouthed smile. Other design differences include the styling of the pelvis (rectangular blocks for Ratchet; a diamond shape in the center for Ironhide) and other very minor differences (stripes on Ratchet's upper legs; a ridged section on the backs of Ironhide's knees). Ratchet is also supposed to have some lines on his forearms that Ironhide lacks, but both Masterpiece toys share the same arm design.
Even though the cartoon versions of the characters could switch from van to robot mode without splitting into two parts, Ratchet's repair bay platform did appear in the pilot episode, and Ironhide's battle platform was part of his animation design (even though it went unused). So, each Masterpiece toy comes with a separate platform that resembles the top van section in its unfolded state. They have no treads, so they just rest flat on the ground, but you can attach the articulated missile launcher and static laser gun to make it resemble the way the G1 platform was equipped. The true purpose of the platform, though, seems to be mostly for parts storage, as Ironhide and Ratchet each come with a LOT of accessories, and every part can be stores on the platform in a way that reminds me of the old Droid Factory from Kenner's vintage Star Wars toy line. (Even the extra faces can be stored on the underside of these platforms.)
It's insane how many scene-specific accessories these guys come with. Ironhide, in particular, was known for a number of pop-out gadgets and abilities, and the Masterpiece toy does not disappoint. The aforementioned missile launcher can attach to his back, to reenact the scenes from "More Than Meets the Eye" part 3 when he and Bluestreak were chasing down Decepticons in the air. His static laser gun was the one that actually came with the G1 toy, though he rarely carried it in the show (Takara used a screen shot from "A Prime Problem" in the instructions). He also carries two laser pistols, the type invented for characters who don't normally carry weapons (Sunstreaker, Wheeljack, etc.) He's also got the back-mounted jet thrusters he used in "The Immobilizer" to warn Spike and Bumblebee that Carly had been captured, including two translucent orange rocket burst accessories that can connect to it. Ironhide's main gimmick in the show was his ability to use a variety of liquids, and so he has hands that can be swapped out for ones with straight fingertips equipped with nozzles at the end, Inspector Gadget style, as seen in episodes like "Quest for Survival" (the Heroes of Cybertron PVC figure was sculpted with these fingertips, too). His hands can also be switched for two different types of dedicated liquid shooter nozzles, a pair of round red ones and another set of squared-off dark grey ones. Finally, he has a sonidar sensor dish, which connects to his forearm so he can hunt for dinosaur bones buried deep within the volcano. There's even a cardboard overlay of a fossilized triceratops skull you can slip behind his windshield.
Ratchet has the same platform in white, but he comes with different accessories to inhabit it. He's also got the static laser gun and a pair of laser pistols (he rather infamously equipped these like a pom-pom gun against Decepticons in The Transformers: the Movie before getting gunned down) and can wear the launcher on his back like Ironhide, despite not equipping it in this manner in any episode. Ratchet-specific accessories include an x-ray blaster (I think maybe the animators drew him with Mirage's dart rifle for one scene); a laser scalpel (I'm sure they invented at least a few different ones during the course of the series); a repair beam emitter that can connect to his forearm; an arc welder that can replace his hand; a detachable energy blast effect that can plug into the end of either the arc-welder or repair beam emitter; a weird-looking magno-wrench (the episode they chose was Ironhide's tune-up from "Masquerade"); and a pair of cyber-spanners (Americans would call them wrenches). Ratchet, too, is a character with myriad pop-out gadgets, but I feel like they missed some of the more iconic accessories. A replacement hand with a single finger swapped out for a laser welder would have been a good choice; a Marvel Comics-accurate replacement head with a red helmet and a white crest would also have been a good choice, and would have made a lot of fans happy.
Also, Ratchet could really have benefited from some silver-colored screws. All the screws holding him together are black, which is fine on Ironhide but which is painfully obvious on Ratchet.
Ratchet alone also comes with a sticker sheet, and Takara pulled a "submarine mode" to work around a major problem with the character's design. Ratchet was originally designed with cross-shaped emblems on him, which befits the character's status as an ambulance (the GoBots toy named Rest-Q had these, too, as did the G.I. Joe medic character named Doc). At some point, though, the Red Cross organization cried foul and claimed exclusive ownership to the symbol, forcing Hasbro to scramble and redesign the box artwork for Ratchet's 1984 toy as well as redesign his animation model (you'll note that in late episodes like "Aerial Assault" he lacks the symbols entirely). So, the Masterpiece toy includes two types of stickers. One style probably used to be a cross-shaped emblem until they slapped great, big Autobot symbols right in the center. The other style is just a seemingly random quilt pattern, but isn't it an amazing coincidence that if you cut the corners off of each sticker, you end up with a perfect cross-shaped emblem? (Based on pictures I've seen online, almost nobody seems to have picked up on this. Shame, really.)
I can appreciate that doing a cartoon-based Ironhide and Ratchet was an incredible challenge for Takara. The designs for their robot modes are immensely unforgiving, and any extra parts would look alarmingly out of place. Still, the standards of excellence for the Masterpiece line are traditionally quite high, and Ironhide and Ratchet fail to meet that standard. They're very good, certainly, but they fail to reach true excellence. It's not just the hip panels, but lots of little things (the styling of the faces, the weird proportions of the robot mode, the lack of silver screws for Ratchet). I don't hate the toys, and I'm glad I own them, but they have problems.
Zob (might look into the third-party add-ons some day)
The only problem with this idea is that some of the machines really didn't look like they could function on their own. The Nissan Cherry Vanette model (which came in both a black civilian van and white ambulance flavor) separated into a battle station and a mecha intended to be piloted by an operator. The mecha had arms and legs but I would be hard pressed to describe it as humanoid, since the van's windshield continued to serve as a windscreen for the operator, who sat in a seat directly behind it. For the Transformers release, Hasbro created a sticker to cover the driver's seat with a strange, stylized robot face design on it.
When the Transformers characters were being developed for animation, a lot of the claws and masks were being swapped out for more human-looking hands and faces, to make the characters more relatable to the audience. The most drastic changes were made to Ironhide and Ratchet, redesigning their robot modes with a more humanoid aesthetic. The characters from cartoons and comics became a rather poor advertisement for the existing toys, and the 1984 toys became infamous for their oft-maligned, headless designs which fit poorly into the new Hasbro-mandated Transformers aesthetic.
The Masterpiece toys are, in many ways, an attempt to create authentic, accurate three-dimensional representations of the characters' animation models. This is a lot more difficult than it sounds, given the number of wheels, doors, and other details that were simplified, reduced in size, or even eliminated altogether for their designs, all in the name of making the characters easier to consistently animate. Some would call it an impossible task, but Takara has demonstrated that they're committed to the challenge, and a great many Masterpiece toys thus far have seemingly accomplished the impossible.
So, it's not just a matter of designing a van that can turn into a robot with a head. That much has been done a few times now. The challenge with this specific character design (and it really is a single character design; Ratchet and Ironhide are just variations on a theme) was to come up with a very generic-looking, boxy robot whose only visual signs that it could even change into anything vehicular at all are the windshield that forms the chest.
Ironhide is MP-27; Ratchet was released as MP-30 (their releases were staggered, with Ironhide released last year in January and Ratchet not being sold until April).
The design of the van mode is authentic to the first-generation Vanette model, which was first produced in 1978. It includes the distinctive high roof and the iconic twin square-shaped headlights (which replaced the original circular headlights to appear more "modern"). Ironhide is red, with the familiar orange stripes on each side which instantly peg this as the Ironhide character. Ratchet is white, with red stripes. Both toys have blue-tinted semi-translucent windows. Molded details suggest they have a sliding passenger door on the left side but not the right. They've got plenty of authentic details, including molded windshield wipers, door handles and key locks, and a gas door on the right rear quadrant. The only things missing are the side view mirrors (which would have been fragile and would have ruined the lines of the robot mode) and the manufacturer's Datsun logos.
Ironhide's got a Dark of the Moon style spring-loaded roof panel, designed so that you can attach one of his two laser pistols or his static laser gun. Ratchet has roof lights in that spot, so while he does have similar weapons options, you have to unfold a flip-out weapon port tucked away inside his roof that's somewhat difficult to reliably access. Both toys also have the ability to store a pair of laser pistols beneath their undercarriage. They're a little hard to get out afterwards. It's unfortunate that they can't store the static laser gun, since it was designed to look like the transmission system of the van mode when it's mounted to the undercarriage. Like all the Masterpiece editions of the Autobot Cars assortment, the wheels are plastic, not rubber.
As a vehicle, Ironhide fits perfectly into the trailer for Masterpiece Optimus Prime; it's an unspoken promise that all the Autobots based on Diaclone cars will enjoy this feature. Ratchet does too, but you have to push in his spring-loaded roof lights and lock them down to create enough clearance.
Also, there's a panel behind the windshield that looks suspiciously like the design of the Hasbro face sticker. I think somebody at Takara included it as a joke, perhaps realizing that there was no way to eliminate the plastic panel that was already there, so they might as well decorate it. It's arguably the goofiest design aspect of any Masterpiece toy to date.
Where the G1 toy actually split into two pieces to transform, the Masterpiece toy is a single unit that goes from van to robot. The broad strokes are the same; the windshield forms the chest, while the legs are formed from the bottom of the chassis. The cartoon models for these characters have absolutely no visible wheels or windows (except the windshield) in evidence, though, so a lot of tricks and cheats were employed to try to hide as much of the van as possible. The rear wheels tuck into the lower legs, with some flip-over panels hiding the stripes on the sides of the vehicle mode. The rear windows of the van actually flip all the way upside-down and hide behind the front windshield, with the robot head mounted upside-down near the rear of the van. The arms are fold-out panels forming the sides of the van, with the side windows more-or-less hidden on the back sides of the forearms. The front wheels fold over and tuck behind the pelvis and are hidden from most angles. It's preposterous how many hoops they were required to jump through to try to match the cartoon look for these robots.
The finished robot is about eight and a half inches tall, following the height guide from the cartoon which established Ironhide and Ratchet as shorter than Optimus Prime but taller than the other Autobot cars. The proportions of the body seem off, like the torso is too long for the length of the arms (on a human, the fingertips would come down to mid-thigh length). Also, the movement of the upper arms is restricted due to the design of the shoulder connector joint; they can raise their arms ninety degrees, but no more than that. Perhaps the most glaring design flaw is the presence of a pair of hip-plates that weren't part of the cartoon design, which are the leftover front wheel wells from van mode that, I guess, they couldn't figure out how to make disappear. (There are actually several third-party add-on kits that can replace these pieces with alternate parts, designed differently so that the fenders remain attached to the chest. Apparently, fans really, strongly dislike the erroneous hip plates.)
What distinguishes Ironhide's design most significantly from Ratchet's is that Ironhide's helmet has a mohawk design, while Ratchet wears boomerang-shaped forehead crest. The face sculpts are good, but they're not perfect. I feel like the eyes are too small and the thickness of the helmets is too thin. Ironhide gets an alternate, swappable angry face; Ratchet's extra face is in an open-mouthed smile. Other design differences include the styling of the pelvis (rectangular blocks for Ratchet; a diamond shape in the center for Ironhide) and other very minor differences (stripes on Ratchet's upper legs; a ridged section on the backs of Ironhide's knees). Ratchet is also supposed to have some lines on his forearms that Ironhide lacks, but both Masterpiece toys share the same arm design.
Even though the cartoon versions of the characters could switch from van to robot mode without splitting into two parts, Ratchet's repair bay platform did appear in the pilot episode, and Ironhide's battle platform was part of his animation design (even though it went unused). So, each Masterpiece toy comes with a separate platform that resembles the top van section in its unfolded state. They have no treads, so they just rest flat on the ground, but you can attach the articulated missile launcher and static laser gun to make it resemble the way the G1 platform was equipped. The true purpose of the platform, though, seems to be mostly for parts storage, as Ironhide and Ratchet each come with a LOT of accessories, and every part can be stores on the platform in a way that reminds me of the old Droid Factory from Kenner's vintage Star Wars toy line. (Even the extra faces can be stored on the underside of these platforms.)
It's insane how many scene-specific accessories these guys come with. Ironhide, in particular, was known for a number of pop-out gadgets and abilities, and the Masterpiece toy does not disappoint. The aforementioned missile launcher can attach to his back, to reenact the scenes from "More Than Meets the Eye" part 3 when he and Bluestreak were chasing down Decepticons in the air. His static laser gun was the one that actually came with the G1 toy, though he rarely carried it in the show (Takara used a screen shot from "A Prime Problem" in the instructions). He also carries two laser pistols, the type invented for characters who don't normally carry weapons (Sunstreaker, Wheeljack, etc.) He's also got the back-mounted jet thrusters he used in "The Immobilizer" to warn Spike and Bumblebee that Carly had been captured, including two translucent orange rocket burst accessories that can connect to it. Ironhide's main gimmick in the show was his ability to use a variety of liquids, and so he has hands that can be swapped out for ones with straight fingertips equipped with nozzles at the end, Inspector Gadget style, as seen in episodes like "Quest for Survival" (the Heroes of Cybertron PVC figure was sculpted with these fingertips, too). His hands can also be switched for two different types of dedicated liquid shooter nozzles, a pair of round red ones and another set of squared-off dark grey ones. Finally, he has a sonidar sensor dish, which connects to his forearm so he can hunt for dinosaur bones buried deep within the volcano. There's even a cardboard overlay of a fossilized triceratops skull you can slip behind his windshield.
Ratchet has the same platform in white, but he comes with different accessories to inhabit it. He's also got the static laser gun and a pair of laser pistols (he rather infamously equipped these like a pom-pom gun against Decepticons in The Transformers: the Movie before getting gunned down) and can wear the launcher on his back like Ironhide, despite not equipping it in this manner in any episode. Ratchet-specific accessories include an x-ray blaster (I think maybe the animators drew him with Mirage's dart rifle for one scene); a laser scalpel (I'm sure they invented at least a few different ones during the course of the series); a repair beam emitter that can connect to his forearm; an arc welder that can replace his hand; a detachable energy blast effect that can plug into the end of either the arc-welder or repair beam emitter; a weird-looking magno-wrench (the episode they chose was Ironhide's tune-up from "Masquerade"); and a pair of cyber-spanners (Americans would call them wrenches). Ratchet, too, is a character with myriad pop-out gadgets, but I feel like they missed some of the more iconic accessories. A replacement hand with a single finger swapped out for a laser welder would have been a good choice; a Marvel Comics-accurate replacement head with a red helmet and a white crest would also have been a good choice, and would have made a lot of fans happy.
Also, Ratchet could really have benefited from some silver-colored screws. All the screws holding him together are black, which is fine on Ironhide but which is painfully obvious on Ratchet.
Ratchet alone also comes with a sticker sheet, and Takara pulled a "submarine mode" to work around a major problem with the character's design. Ratchet was originally designed with cross-shaped emblems on him, which befits the character's status as an ambulance (the GoBots toy named Rest-Q had these, too, as did the G.I. Joe medic character named Doc). At some point, though, the Red Cross organization cried foul and claimed exclusive ownership to the symbol, forcing Hasbro to scramble and redesign the box artwork for Ratchet's 1984 toy as well as redesign his animation model (you'll note that in late episodes like "Aerial Assault" he lacks the symbols entirely). So, the Masterpiece toy includes two types of stickers. One style probably used to be a cross-shaped emblem until they slapped great, big Autobot symbols right in the center. The other style is just a seemingly random quilt pattern, but isn't it an amazing coincidence that if you cut the corners off of each sticker, you end up with a perfect cross-shaped emblem? (Based on pictures I've seen online, almost nobody seems to have picked up on this. Shame, really.)
I can appreciate that doing a cartoon-based Ironhide and Ratchet was an incredible challenge for Takara. The designs for their robot modes are immensely unforgiving, and any extra parts would look alarmingly out of place. Still, the standards of excellence for the Masterpiece line are traditionally quite high, and Ironhide and Ratchet fail to meet that standard. They're very good, certainly, but they fail to reach true excellence. It's not just the hip panels, but lots of little things (the styling of the faces, the weird proportions of the robot mode, the lack of silver screws for Ratchet). I don't hate the toys, and I'm glad I own them, but they have problems.
Zob (might look into the third-party add-ons some day)
Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats
Dec 28, 2017, 1:06:12 AM12/28/17
to
On Wednesday, December 27, 2017 at 6:41:04 PM UTC-8, Zobovor (the Man with All the Toys) wrote:
> The Masterpiece toys are, in many ways, an attempt to create authentic, accurate three-dimensional representations of the characters' animation models. This is a lot more difficult than it sounds, given the number of wheels, doors, and other details that were simplified, reduced in size, or even eliminated altogether for their designs, all in the name of making the characters easier to consistently animate. Some would call it an impossible task, but Takara has demonstrated that they're committed to the challenge, and a great many Masterpiece toys thus far have seemingly accomplished the impossible.
And then there is Masterpiece Hot Rod, who manages to fail to hit all the right notes, while Titans Return Hot Rod is so close to perfect, despite being so different from the original character model.
> The Masterpiece toys are, in many ways, an attempt to create authentic, accurate three-dimensional representations of the characters' animation models. This is a lot more difficult than it sounds, given the number of wheels, doors, and other details that were simplified, reduced in size, or even eliminated altogether for their designs, all in the name of making the characters easier to consistently animate. Some would call it an impossible task, but Takara has demonstrated that they're committed to the challenge, and a great many Masterpiece toys thus far have seemingly accomplished the impossible.
> The finished robot is about eight and a half inches tall, following the height guide from the cartoon which established Ironhide and Ratchet as shorter than Optimus Prime but taller than the other Autobot cars. The proportions of the body seem off, like the torso is too long for the length of the arms (on a human, the fingertips would come down to mid-thigh length).
Transformers tend to have short thighs, and his are more normal.
Ironhide also has a bit of a gut which hangs over his belt. It's a very middle-aged man look, much more than the original character model.
> Also, the movement of the upper arms is restricted due to the design of the shoulder connector joint; they can raise their arms ninety degrees, but no more than that.
> Perhaps the most glaring design flaw is the presence of a pair of hip-plates that weren't part of the cartoon design, which are the leftover front wheel wells from van mode that, I guess, they couldn't figure out how to make disappear. (There are actually several third-party add-on kits that can replace these pieces with alternate parts, designed differently so that the fenders remain attached to the chest. Apparently, fans really, strongly dislike the erroneous hip plates.)
> Also, Ratchet could really have benefited from some silver-colored screws. All the screws holding him together are black, which is fine on Ironhide but which is painfully obvious on Ratchet.
> I can appreciate that doing a cartoon-based Ironhide and Ratchet was an incredible challenge for Takara. The designs for their robot modes are immensely unforgiving, and any extra parts would look alarmingly out of place. Still, the standards of excellence for the Masterpiece line are traditionally quite high, and Ironhide and Ratchet fail to meet that standard. They're very good, certainly, but they fail to reach true excellence. It's not just the hip panels, but lots of little things (the styling of the faces, the weird proportions of the robot mode, the lack of silver screws for Ratchet). I don't hate the toys, and I'm glad I own them, but they have problems.
The other Masterpiece toys? Grimlock is just a very good Leader class toy. Most of the rest are a step or two up in scale and decoration from normal retail level, with a slightly more complicated transformation. Optimus Primal "improves" upon the Ultra BW toy by being more screen accurate but losing the fun... And, of course, Hot Rod is Hot Rod.
Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike any of the Masterpiece cars (except for Hot Rod, and only a little there), but they are just not doing anything surprising and interesting.
The line between retail releases and Masterpieces has blurred a lot for me with the Titans Return toys being so very good (I prefer the Combiner Wars toys as a whole, actually, because of the play pattern, but each individual Titans Return toy was better than each individual Combiner Wars toy).
brianj...@gmail.com
Dec 28, 2017, 12:02:18 PM12/28/17
to
I'm glad you opened Ironhide and Ratchet before Inferno. I've probably transformed Ironhide more times than any other Transformer in the last twenty years. Everything just felt right in the transformation, and it was a lot of fun getting from one mode to the other. I initially forgave Ironhide for his flaws because not only did I like the seemingly impossible transformation but the laws of Masterpiece perfectly emulating the cartoon models hadn't been set in stone yet.
With Inferno, his transformation isn't as fun, but the toy is omg amazing. Truth be told, I kept looking at the 1985 toy and wondering how they would improve it much - and wow did they! He's a perfect animation model. Front, back, side, proportions, everything. They got his BACK right! Also everything just comes together so beautifully. He, along with Megatron and Sunstreaker, have set the bar very high. They make me look back at some of the older Masterpieces and notice more flaws now that they're magic has worn off.
On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 1:06:12 AM UTC-5, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 27, 2017 at 6:41:04 PM UTC-8, Zobovor (the Man with All the Toys) wrote:
> > The finished robot is about eight and a half inches tall, following the height guide from the cartoon which established Ironhide and Ratchet as shorter than Optimus Prime but taller than the other Autobot cars. The proportions of the body seem off, like the torso is too long for the length of the arms (on a human, the fingertips would come down to mid-thigh length).
Proportions are bad. Even in all of the promotion photography, he only looks good from about 1 angle.
>
>
> Ironhide also has a bit of a gut which hangs over his belt. It's a very middle-aged man look, much more than the original character model.
>
This is probably the worst for me. It's always bothered me, but it does much more now that I've seen how well they can manage proportions like this. I'm not sure if his gut was something that the designers thought it wasn't as noticeable, or it was a necessity due to alt mode accuracy, or it couldn't be done with the budget, or if maybe it's a nod to his animated personna, but I dislike it more the more I see it and surround it with better designed figures.
>
> > Perhaps the most glaring design flaw is the presence of a pair of hip-plates that weren't part of the cartoon design, which are the leftover front wheel wells from van mode that, I guess, they couldn't figure out how to make disappear. (There are actually several third-party add-on kits that can replace these pieces with alternate parts, designed differently so that the fenders remain attached to the chest. Apparently, fans really, strongly dislike the erroneous hip plates.)
>
> Why those are more bothersome than the wheels on his ass, I will never know.
Why why why are there hip panels??? Ok, maybe it was a weird designer choice like Starscream's sword scabbards. Or maybe it was budget issues. Or maybe a vestige to the live action films where panels were flying every where. This is another thing that bugs me more with time. If you can hide Inferno's huge ladder, you could certainly tuck away some hip panels.
I think people tend to hate this more than butt wheels is that there is an unspoken rule that we prefer our Transformers to look better from the front as that's how we most often display them. The wheels are at least tucked in the back where we can't see them, the hip panels we see from every angle.
Jeez, I just looked at a google image of Ironhide which just got rid of the hip panels, widened the chest, and raised the shoulders a little - so much better!
>
> > I can appreciate that doing a cartoon-based Ironhide and Ratchet was an incredible challenge for Takara. The designs for their robot modes are immensely unforgiving, and any extra parts would look alarmingly out of place. Still, the standards of excellence for the Masterpiece line are traditionally quite high, and Ironhide and Ratchet fail to meet that standard. They're very good, certainly, but they fail to reach true excellence. It's not just the hip panels, but lots of little things (the styling of the faces, the weird proportions of the robot mode, the lack of silver screws for Ratchet). I don't hate the toys, and I'm glad I own them, but they have problems.
>
Of course, in some ways, Takara can never win. Maybe they could have made a better toy if it split with his bay but then people would have a fit about a parts forming Masterpiece. Maybe they could made better proportions if they had made a more generic van mode but then people would be mad about the lack of license. What about a bigger budget? Dinobot, the next impossible toy they are making looks absolutely incredible and an amazing achievement...
...and we are flipping out about the price.
>
> The line between retail releases and Masterpieces has blurred a lot for me with the Titans Return toys being so very good (I prefer the Combiner Wars toys as a whole, actually, because of the play pattern, but each individual Titans Return toy was better than each individual Combiner Wars toy).
I hate to say it, but I agree with this. At the time Masterpieces started being a collection rather than a few one-offs, the Generations line was just cool. Now after Combiner Wars, Titans Return, and POTPs, it's amazing (and much cheaper).
With Inferno, his transformation isn't as fun, but the toy is omg amazing. Truth be told, I kept looking at the 1985 toy and wondering how they would improve it much - and wow did they! He's a perfect animation model. Front, back, side, proportions, everything. They got his BACK right! Also everything just comes together so beautifully. He, along with Megatron and Sunstreaker, have set the bar very high. They make me look back at some of the older Masterpieces and notice more flaws now that they're magic has worn off.
On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 1:06:12 AM UTC-5, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 27, 2017 at 6:41:04 PM UTC-8, Zobovor (the Man with All the Toys) wrote:
> > The finished robot is about eight and a half inches tall, following the height guide from the cartoon which established Ironhide and Ratchet as shorter than Optimus Prime but taller than the other Autobot cars. The proportions of the body seem off, like the torso is too long for the length of the arms (on a human, the fingertips would come down to mid-thigh length).
>
>
> Ironhide also has a bit of a gut which hangs over his belt. It's a very middle-aged man look, much more than the original character model.
>
>
> > Perhaps the most glaring design flaw is the presence of a pair of hip-plates that weren't part of the cartoon design, which are the leftover front wheel wells from van mode that, I guess, they couldn't figure out how to make disappear. (There are actually several third-party add-on kits that can replace these pieces with alternate parts, designed differently so that the fenders remain attached to the chest. Apparently, fans really, strongly dislike the erroneous hip plates.)
>
> Why those are more bothersome than the wheels on his ass, I will never know.
I think people tend to hate this more than butt wheels is that there is an unspoken rule that we prefer our Transformers to look better from the front as that's how we most often display them. The wheels are at least tucked in the back where we can't see them, the hip panels we see from every angle.
Jeez, I just looked at a google image of Ironhide which just got rid of the hip panels, widened the chest, and raised the shoulders a little - so much better!
>
> > I can appreciate that doing a cartoon-based Ironhide and Ratchet was an incredible challenge for Takara. The designs for their robot modes are immensely unforgiving, and any extra parts would look alarmingly out of place. Still, the standards of excellence for the Masterpiece line are traditionally quite high, and Ironhide and Ratchet fail to meet that standard. They're very good, certainly, but they fail to reach true excellence. It's not just the hip panels, but lots of little things (the styling of the faces, the weird proportions of the robot mode, the lack of silver screws for Ratchet). I don't hate the toys, and I'm glad I own them, but they have problems.
>
...and we are flipping out about the price.
>
> The line between retail releases and Masterpieces has blurred a lot for me with the Titans Return toys being so very good (I prefer the Combiner Wars toys as a whole, actually, because of the play pattern, but each individual Titans Return toy was better than each individual Combiner Wars toy).
banzait...@gmail.com
Dec 28, 2017, 8:15:23 PM12/28/17
to
> Still, the standards of excellence for the Masterpiece line are traditionally quite high, and Ironhide and Ratchet fail to meet that standard. They're very good, certainly, but they fail to reach true excellence.
I'd debate your use of the word "traditionally". I've ranted about the Masterpiece line in this forum before, so I won't subject you to it again. I think most "Masterpiece" transformers fall in this bucket you are describing. There are exceptions of course, like soundwave. But there have been so many failures, do-overs (seriously like 25% of the molds have had to be redone for one reason or another). I'm not saying the toys aren't great. They almost all are. It's just that for the price, and "Masterpiece" designation, I find them rather average. (I still buy many of them of course.)
-Banzaitron
Zobovor (the Man with All the Toys)
Dec 28, 2017, 11:01:06 PM12/28/17
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On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 6:15:23 PM UTC-7, banzait...@gmail.com wrote:
> There have been so many failures, do-overs (seriously like 25% of the molds
The MP-01 toy wasn't even designated as a Masterpiece toy until after the fact. At the time it was produced, it was just a huge, collectible version of Optimus Prime. And it was an amazing toy. Yeah, the MP-10 is a better toy in just about every way, but I think the main reason they came out with that one was because they'd established a new scale for the toys and wanted to stick with it for all subsequent releases. Which, I think, is the reason they redid Megatron and Hot Rod as well. They were the only other toys who were grossly out of scale with the rest of the toys in the series.
I'll grant you Starscream and friends. The first release was okay, but the fixes they made to the mold really helped it tremendously.
Zob (not arguing, just exploring the issue)
> There have been so many failures, do-overs (seriously like 25% of the molds
> have had to be redone for one reason or another).
I see what you're saying, though I don't think it follows that all the do-over molds were necessarily failures.
The MP-01 toy wasn't even designated as a Masterpiece toy until after the fact. At the time it was produced, it was just a huge, collectible version of Optimus Prime. And it was an amazing toy. Yeah, the MP-10 is a better toy in just about every way, but I think the main reason they came out with that one was because they'd established a new scale for the toys and wanted to stick with it for all subsequent releases. Which, I think, is the reason they redid Megatron and Hot Rod as well. They were the only other toys who were grossly out of scale with the rest of the toys in the series.
I'll grant you Starscream and friends. The first release was okay, but the fixes they made to the mold really helped it tremendously.
Zob (not arguing, just exploring the issue)
banzait...@gmail.com
Dec 29, 2017, 11:41:09 AM12/29/17
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You make a good point. For the record, I don’t think really any masterpiece toy is a failure. At least not one that I own. I just feel we deserve more, much more at that price point. (Did u catch the reference?).
Take ironhide for example, for all considerations, he’s a fantastic toy. But when you figure in the $100 price tag, it’s a bit much to swallow. If Takara could get their price point down to half that, I would RAVE about the masterpiece line. I’ve always been vehemently opposed to KOs, but perhaps you have the right idea buying them for this line.
-Banzaitron
Take ironhide for example, for all considerations, he’s a fantastic toy. But when you figure in the $100 price tag, it’s a bit much to swallow. If Takara could get their price point down to half that, I would RAVE about the masterpiece line. I’ve always been vehemently opposed to KOs, but perhaps you have the right idea buying them for this line.
-Banzaitron
Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.
Jan 4, 2018, 5:24:27 PM1/4/18
to
http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Product/VariationDetails/30919
It's a pre-order, but does that violate the original intent of Takara? is it acceptable?
It's a pre-order, but does that violate the original intent of Takara? is it acceptable?
Zobovor
Jan 4, 2018, 9:39:41 PM1/4/18
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On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 3:24:27 PM UTC-7, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:
> It's a pre-order, but does that violate the original intent of Takara? is
> it acceptable?
I think there have been a few third-party add-ons that do something like this. I've actually got some parts coming from Nonnef Productions that might be a good fix for both toys. I'll let you guys knows what I think once I get the parts.
> It's a pre-order, but does that violate the original intent of Takara? is
> it acceptable?
Zob (just learned about the new TMNT cartoon for 2018)
Zobovor
Feb 1, 2018, 11:32:46 PM2/1/18
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On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 7:39:41 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> I think there have been a few third-party add-ons that do something like
> this. I've actually got some parts coming from Nonnef Productions that might
> be a good fix for both toys. I'll let you guys knows what I think once I get
> the parts.
Okay! When I checked the Nonnef Productions web site, they had put out a request asking to borrow a Masterpiece Soundwave head for a while. They needed to take some measurements in preparation for a custom project, apparently. I volunteered and they agreed to send me the Masterpiece Ironhide and Ratchet parts in exchange. I got some other goodies as well.
> I think there have been a few third-party add-ons that do something like
> this. I've actually got some parts coming from Nonnef Productions that might
> be a good fix for both toys. I'll let you guys knows what I think once I get
> the parts.
So, the idea behind this particular fix is that you built an armature made up of four different pieces of plastic. It's got ball-and-socket connections in three places, so you can shift the annoying hip panels up and out of the way. You have to disassemble the toys partly to accomplish this (take apart the pelvis, remove the strut from the hip panel, and plug the new parts into the pin hole for the front wheels).
The upside is that you can swing the hip panels completely away from the pelvis and hide them behind Ironhide or Ratchet's back somewhere. The downside is that the hinges for the new parts do kind of poke out from either hip a little. Also, the armatures are really hard to fold up for vehicle mode. They are technically capable of being arranged in such a way that they fold up inside the vehicle, but it's so elaborate, making an already challenging toy even harder. If you're wanting to display Ironhide or Ratchet in robot mode and aren't too worried about transforming them, at that point you might as well just take the hip pieces off altogether.
Nonnef Productions doesn't seem to be offering these specific upgrade parts from their web site any longer.
They also sent me an axe for Titans Return Broadside. It's a large weapon that looks a lot like the axe that came with the G1 toy, only bigger. It has two rectangular tabs on either side, so if you pop off the tail rudders and swap them so that they're facing the other way around, you can wedge the axe between his legs when he's in a modified jet mode (with the legs laying flat rather than the knees being bent). It's molded plastic, too, not 3D-printed, so it's sturdy with smooth surfaces.
They offer a full upgrade kit for Broadside that also includes a G1-inspired gun, leg covers to plug up the gaps on the insides of his legs, and panels to fit on the insides of his forearms. I daresay it would reduce the toy's element of sucktitude by at least a factor of five.
Finally, I got some Insecticon weapons. They're smaller versions of the handguns carried by the Insecticons during G1, meant to arm the Legend toys from the various assortments (Generations and/or Power of the Primes Skrapnel, Combiner Wars Bombshell and Chop Shop, and Titans Return Kickback). They come in black or grey; I got two grey and two black. They fit snugly in the fists of the toys (the guns I got for my Autobot Clones and Decepticon Clones were a little loose), and Skrapnel and Chop Shop can theoretically use them in insect mode since they both have a peg-hole on their back in bug mode (the stock for Skrapnel's gun tends to get in the way, though). They're of really good quality plastic... very thick, very sturdy.
Ironically, I think I am actually happier with the freebies than the parts that I had actually requested.
The fact that these accessories are designed to look like the G1 accessories is an enormous draw for me. If I was really desperate for my Insecticons to be properly armed, I could stick any old guns in their hands. But the designs of the G1 weapons are very specific and iconic (the styling of Bombshell's gun, for example, mirrors the stinger on his head) and it does help to make the new toys look a little more like their old selves.
I know it sounds like I'm singing their praises because I got some cool stuff from them. If I hated these parts, I would definitely say so. As it happens, I think they're great.
They also have stuff like G1-styled guns for Titans Return Hot Rod, Blurr, Chromedome, etc.
Zob (loves getting stuff in the mail)
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