Can Masterpieces be further improved?
Scott
got me thinking.
What if Hasbro really targeted the adult collector's market? I am talking
in the range of collectable mechanical watches or golf clubs kind of
collectors.
What would a Masterpiece Optimus Prime that cost more than a thousand
dollars, for the entry level model, be like?
What would be the improvements to justify the price point?
Zobovor
<fujispamsonyspamjvcspaml...@nospamhere.com> wrote:
> What would a Masterpiece Optimus Prime that cost more than a thousand
> dollars, for the entry level model, be like?
>
> What would be the improvements to justify the price point?
First off, it would have to be large. Like, as in, at least two feet
tall in robot mode.
Second, a "toy" with a price tag like that had better have tons of
features. I'm thinking electronic and motorized and programmable. He
would come with a radio control so you could manipulate him in robot
mode—move his arms up and down, rotate his head, and make him walk.
When you transform him, the same control would operate him as a truck,
allowing you to drive him like an R/C car, turn his headlights on and
off, or activate a truck horn sound. You would also be able to
program him with your computer—type things for him to say and he would
say them in Optimus Prime's voice (or a reasonable facsimile). If he
were capable of detecting a wireless signal, perhaps you could type
things to him and he could respond to you, using a simple word
processing software. (DO YOU ENJOY FIGHTING DECEPTICONS? "Why do you
assume that I enjoy fighting Decepticons?" I HAVE A BOOBY TRAP THAT
ACTUALLY CATCHES BOOBIES. "I am pleased that you have a booby trap
that actually catches boobies.")
The programmable interactive R2-D2 that came out several years ago
really has a lot of interesting features—it responds to voice commands
and can sense movement and light, and that toy retailed for less than
$200. I wonder if something like that could be done with Optimus Prime
—if digital cameras can recognize faces, then maybe Optimus could have
a program to recognize Autobot and Decepticon insignias on your toys/
clothing/whatever, and he would respond accordingly when he sees a
faction symbol. R2-D2 also reacts to the names of specific Star Wars
characters—if you say, "Hey, Artoo, do you remember...CARRIE FISHER?!"
he will scream in terror. I am not making this up.
There are also so many interactive toys that can respond to TV.
Mattel released a Barbie cat called Serafina years ago that would
respond to key scenes in the DVD that came with the toy, and so
Serafina would "react" to the events of the movie, no doubt in
response to signals that trigger preprogrammed phrases. It would be
awesome if Optimus Prime could watch a specially encoded DVD of
various Transformers episodes and/or movies and comment on them as
events unfold. ("Ah, I remember Megatron's treachery here. Watch
what happens when Hot Rod heroically steps in and tries to
intervene.")
Even with all these features, though, I don't know that I'd be
comfortable spending a thousand dollars on any single toy, no matter
how much it did. That's a hell of a lot of cash to fork over.
Zob
Travoltron
> What would a Masterpiece Optimus Prime that cost more than a thousand
> dollars, for the entry level model, be like?
I can't seem to find any links to prove it (I hope someone else has the
pics & info somewhere), but Takara did display something like this at a
Japanese convention years ago. It looked to be about 5 feet tall in the
pics. I'm not sure what it _did_, I'm not even sure if it could
Transform or not. It had already been given a suggested retail price
that was ridiculously expensive. Obviously it was never sold.
The $250 Chrono Label watches a couple years ago also failed to impress
and never made it to retail.
Uriel Ventris
> Even with all these features, though, I don't know that I'd be
> comfortable spending a thousand dollars on any single toy, no matter
> how much it did. That's a hell of a lot of cash to fork over.
A grand is a ridiculous amount of money for a toy. Even with all those
features, I don't see it retailing for more than USD 300 with the
features that Zob's outlined... unless it's an import or something.
And even then, you'd expect to get a lot of toy for that much money.
Well, at that price point, it wouldn't be a toy any more, would it?
To give you an idea of what a thousand is worth (for folks like me,
who're not American), a thousand dollars American could get you a
really, really good laptop with discrete graphics, and a battery
that'll last more than 9 hours on a full charge. But not a Macintosh,
because that's not a laptop that's a fashion accessory.
A fashion accessory that says, "I have too much money."
Scott
that, Rolexes which are not collector's editions.
I was thinking Hasbro could at least use better materials like titanium for
the metal parts and sapphire glass for the visors or windows. Greater
detail both on the exterior shell and interior details like the Perfect
Grade Gundams. The current Masterpiece Optimus Prime is just the right
size. Big enough to be imposing but not too large.
For a ridiculously large toy model, check out the meter long Gundam:
http://www.hlj.com/product/BAN907985
As an adult collector, price was not the issue. Storage space was. With
apartment sizes about 387 square feet selling for $700,000 and above. And
collectors are buying these, some even bought two.
Putting collecting as an adult hobby in perspective.
TigerMegatron
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Scott,the FIRST thing that most adult Veteran TF fans love about these
Materpiece TF toy is the fact their gimmick free.
Having a one thousand dollar plus priced Transformers would have to
mean it'll have to have tons of gimmicks to justify that heavy price
tag. like perhaps have it being a working lap top computer that can
do. if you go the RC route or wtach route or whatever route it'll have
to do everything those things do. TF veteran fans often get pissed off
& very upset when electronic gimmicks are put into regular sized
retail TF toys because the toy is compromised because their needs to
be a huge cavity inside the toy to house the electronics box/wires/
gears/etc.... examples of TF toys compromised by electronics are year
2005 cybertron leader sized megatron & Armada leader sized optimus
prime. TF animated's leader sized megatron's robot chest needed to be
bulkier & fatter to house the electronics thus making the toy look mis-
proportion & top chest fat heavy.
SECOND: TF veteran fans can barely afford ton pay the Takara & Hasbro
prices for these Master Piece TF toys as it is. just look at all the
on-line complaining on all the TF moderated message boards like
TFW2005,The ALLspark,Seibertron,TCC,bwtf & so forth. more than 65% of
them were complaing that $180 was too much to spend on a Master piece
TF toy called Rodimus prime. More than half of them said they'd wait
for the hasbro version because it will be cheaper priced. SO SPENDING
ONE THOUSAND PLUS ON A MASTER PIECE TF TOY isn't something the
majority would be willing to do. more than 88% won't be able to afford
it,those who can afford it will pass because fans aren't just about
toys we have bills,families,food,utilities,car & gas payments,mortage
payments etc..... WHATS THE SENSE IN MAKING SOMETHING IF ONLY THE
ELITE can/or are willing to buy it.
THIRD,Creating a master piece TF toy bigger than convoy/optimus Prime
is not something the majority of fans want to see. as most of us are
about accurate toy scale. most of us want to display these MP TF toys
next to other TF toys.
Most of us want MP TF toys in proper size scales in relation to how
they appeared in the cartoon,comic & toy line.
Many TF fans like myself opted to buy the 3rd party igear faith leader
because he was 8 inches tall & in proper scale with some of the
AEC,Classics & live action movie toys. Having a MP TF toy bigger than
convoy & megatron would basically mean it's gets more isolasted on
display shelves by not being put & fitting in with other TF toys out
on display.
THIRD PART TWO: It would only make sense to have MP TF toys bigger
than convoy & megatron. If they were city bots or planet bots. or a
huge combiner. as noted elsewhere this would still piss fans off. as
the thing would cost over $200 depending on how big it is. some fans
might consider it too big & out of scale with other city
bots,combiners & planet bots.
Scott
You might have me confused with another. I wanted better materials used and
more details in Masterpieces. I did not ask for more or any electronics. Do
check the posts.
Higher prices need not translate to more gimmicks. High end Vertu
cellphones are functionally equivalent to budget Nokias. It is those dirt
cheap ripoff Shan Zai cells that pack every gimmick known to man and then
some.
> SECOND: TF veteran fans can barely afford ton pay the Takara & Hasbro
> prices for these Master Piece TF toys as it is. just look at all the
> on-line complaining on all the TF moderated message boards like
> TFW2005,The ALLspark,Seibertron,TCC,bwtf & so forth. more than 65% of
> them were complaing that $180 was too much to spend on a Master piece
> TF toy called Rodimus prime. More than half of them said they'd wait
> for the hasbro version because it will be cheaper priced. SO SPENDING
> ONE THOUSAND PLUS ON A MASTER PIECE TF TOY isn't something the
> majority would be willing to do. more than 88% won't be able to afford
> it,those who can afford it will pass because fans aren't just about
> toys we have bills,families,food,utilities,car & gas payments,mortage
> payments etc..... WHATS THE SENSE IN MAKING SOMETHING IF ONLY THE
> ELITE can/or are willing to buy it.
Aren't adult Transformers fans in the upper middle class and above?
Basically, your average lower income guy has bigger problems than
collecting Transformers for fun.
> THIRD,Creating a master piece TF toy bigger than convoy/optimus Prime
> is not something the majority of fans want to see. as most of us are
> about accurate toy scale. most of us want to display these MP TF toys
> next to other TF toys.
> Most of us want MP TF toys in proper size scales in relation to how
> they appeared in the cartoon,comic & toy line.
> Many TF fans like myself opted to buy the 3rd party igear faith leader
> because he was 8 inches tall & in proper scale with some of the
> AEC,Classics & live action movie toys. Having a MP TF toy bigger than
> convoy & megatron would basically mean it's gets more isolasted on
> display shelves by not being put & fitting in with other TF toys out
> on display.
Got to say I basically agree with you here, but if I am plonking down a
grand, it had better be Masterpiece Optimus Prime sized.
Size matters. I bought THS Prime for about the same amount I paid for
Masterpiece Optimus Prime. Till today, the sheer heft of the Masterpiece
makes me feel like it was the better deal.
> THIRD PART TWO: It would only make sense to have MP TF toys bigger
> than convoy & megatron. If they were city bots or planet bots. or a
> huge combiner. as noted elsewhere this would still piss fans off. as
> the thing would cost over $200 depending on how big it is. some fans
> might consider it too big & out of scale with other city
> bots,combiners & planet bots.
A Transformer released for $1000 aimed at adult collectors should not be
placed together with the normal Transformers. It would not fit.
Just like normal Transformers would look out of place with those Happy Meal
freebies that McDonald's was handing out.
TigerMegatron
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Scott,your missing the point everyone is making in this thread. Which
is for one thousand bucks, a TF toy HAS TO BE LOADED WITH TONS OF
ELECTRONICS & GIMMICKS TO JUSTIFY THE HIGH PRICE TAG. No TF fan is
going to plonk down one thousand dollars for a TF toy that does very
little.
As far as your comment about only the upper middle class & above
veteran TF fans can afford the Masterpiece TF toys & adult oriented/
priced TF toys. that is so FALSE & UN-TRUE.
TF fans don't care about saphire glass windows,Diamond eyes nor using
the rarest/strongest most exspensive metal & materials on planet earth
to use in transformers toys. TF fans will not pay extra for these
things.
BTW,Titanium metal is not that rare,nor exspensive nor exotic. We
already had titanium metal transformers in the form of the 6 inch & 3
inch titanium transformers years ago. Titanium gets used for almost
everything these days.
Everyone here has explained to you already that Gundams can't
transform into anything thus can have some of the stuff TF toys can't.
for a transformer to transform & have everything a gundam has, the
price will be thru the roof & more than fans will be willing to spend.
Various hasbro official interviews revealed that transformers take 18
months to create from stage one to the last stage due to all the work
needed to make these TF toys. if transformers were action masters or
gundams they'd take shorter to create,less money,less man power & less
brain work.
Gundams & transformers please two entirely different buyers markets.
they are not the same nor should they be put in the same toy group.
Zobovor
> BTW,Titanium metal is not that rare,nor exspensive nor exotic. We
> already had titanium metal transformers in the form of the 6 inch & 3
> inch titanium transformers years ago. Titanium gets used for almost
> everything these days.
Just because that assortment was called the Titanium Series doesn't
literally mean those toys were cast out of titanium. Almost all die-
cast metal toys are cast from an aluminim-zinc alloy. Titanium is
considerably more expensive—it's as strong as steel but much lighter,
making it useful for aircraft parts, golf clubs, medical prostheses,
etc.
(For the record, no Ironhide toy has ever been made of iron, either,
and Goldbug isn't actually made out of gold.)
Zob
Zobovor
> I can't seem to find any links to prove it (I hope someone else has the
> pics & info somewhere), but Takara did display something like this at a
> Japanese convention years ago. It looked to be about 5 feet tall in the
> pics. I'm not sure what it _did_, I'm not even sure if it could
> Transform or not. It had already been given a suggested retail price
> that was ridiculously expensive. Obviously it was never sold.
I know what you're talking about. It was on display at BotCon Japan
or something like that, right? The impression I'd gotten was that it
was just a statue. (I doubt it was able to transform, since it was a
representation of Optimus Prime's G1 animation model. It didn't have
any wheels or hinges or anything in evidence.)
I've got some of the pictures on my hard drive, but I'm notoriously
bad about not renaming files after I save them, so it's probably
called "3042333.jpg" or something like that. I'll have to look for
it.
Zob
...Also Known As Thunder
or something. It was pretty large but I don't know if it did anything
(other then devour your savings. :)
t.k.
...Also Known As Thunder
> (For the record, no Ironhide toy has ever been made of iron, either,
> and Goldbug isn't actually made out of gold.)
We should sue Hasbro so they put disclaimers about this on all the toys. ;)
t.k.
Zobovor
> I've got some of the pictures on my hard drive, but I'm notoriously
> bad about not renaming files after I save them, so it's probably
> called "3042333.jpg" or something like that. I'll have to look for
> it.
Okay, here we go:
http://members.fortunecity.com/zobovor/3042333.jpg
...Just kidding.
http://members.fortunecity.com/zobovor/prime_statue.html
Zob
Kishin
> On Jan 19, 8:48 am, TigerMegatron<TigerMegat...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> BTW,Titanium metal is not that rare,nor exspensive nor exotic. We
>> inch titanium transformers years ago. Titanium gets used for almost
>> everything these days.
>
> Just because that assortment was called the Titanium Series doesn't
> literally mean those toys were cast out of titanium. Almost all die-
> cast metal toys are cast from an aluminim-zinc alloy. Titanium is
> considerably more expensive—it's as strong as steel but much lighter,
> making it useful for aircraft parts, golf clubs, medical prostheses,
> etc.
>
> (For the record, no Ironhide toy has ever been made of iron, either,
> and Goldbug isn't actually made out of gold.)
You're absolutely right, Zob.
"They are also not actually made of titanium. "
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Titanium_Series
--
Kishin
Travoltron
>
> http://members.fortunecity.com/zobovor/prime_statue.html
> Zob
Thanks!
298,000 yen in 2003 = $2,769.52 ($3,607.81 in today's money)
I guess the same people that buy life-size Carbonite Han Solos might
have bought this.
Scott
This post seeks to explain our respective weltanschauung regarding the
Transformers toyline, and how we have reached our very different
conclusions.
It seems like your view of Transformers fans are fans of Transformers who
have grown into adults and would be happy to have the same toys that Hasbro
sells to children.
My view of Transformers fans, a market untapped by Hasbro, is that as these
fans mature, what attracts them in a toy evolves.
Using Toyota cars as an analogy, a little tyke might have a peddle car when
young, a beat up second hand car in college and when he starts work, a
cheap car with good fuel efficiency like the Yaris. When he is becomes a
senior, he might get a bigger car like a Corolla or Wish to ferry his new
family about. Upon promotion to middle management, he could change to a
Crown or Camry. Once he is ready to move into upper management, he once
agains moves on to a Lexus or more expensive car to signal his new status.
Thus Toyota gives its clients little reason to defect.
Hasbro has the Fast Action Battlers and one button transforming
Transformers for toddlers, then Legends and Scouts for post toddlers,
Deluxes and Voyagers for preteens, and Leaders and Masterpieces for teens.
At that point, Hasbro abandons the market. The majority of their loyal
Transformers customer base, which wants to grow with them, cannot. There
lacks a product category for the working adult fan.
We are the exception. How many of your friends, who were Transformers fans,
still are? This hypothesis suggests that those fans were lost when Hasbro
neglected to chart an upgrade path.
TigerMegatron
wrote:
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Scott,you appear to be a troll/flame baiter. congratulations you have
just entered my "Mozzila troll filter. I won't be able to see your
stupid threads nor replies no more.
Travoltron
> Scott,you appear to be a troll/flame baiter. congratulations you have
> just entered my "Mozzila troll filter. I won't be able to see your
> stupid threads nor replies no more.
In Soviet Union, troll killfiles you!
Kishin
> Scott,you appear to be a troll/flame baiter. congratulations you have
> just entered my "Mozzila troll filter. I won't be able to see your
> stupid threads nor replies no more.
Wow, just because he disagrees with you? Man, that's harsh.
--
Kishin (who's probably also in Deathy's killfile)
TigerMegatron
TigerMegatron
No because he's keeps repeating the same stupid shit over & over &
over & over again. he reminds me of that webtv Atter poster named
"mytechblackpowerranger or whatever the hell his name is. who keeps
creating treads asking about the ultimate TF with a gazillion gimmicks
thrown into the toy.
I don't come here to get pissed off nor upset by flame baiting trolls.
I come here to have a good time & discuss TF related tpoics with
normal & polite TF fans.
I have the right to throw any annoying ATTER in my "mozilla troll
killfile" that I feel is being annoying,rude,flame
baiter,troll,repeative,smart ass & so forth.
TigerMegatron
transformer toy. because, number one, retailers won't carry such a
highly priced TF toy. second no one will buy the dam thing because
it's too exspensive.
what's the point in creating something that exspensive. if stores
refuse to carry the item. fans can't afford it.
sure they'll be a small handful of TF fans buying the thing but it
won't be worth hasbro's/takara's time creating something only a few
will buy. Hasbro & takara make profit money off something they create
when they can really mass produce the thing over & over & over again.
Creating something that exspensive for $1000.00 & having a limited run
of under 100 or under 500. will mean both hasbro & takara will never
make their money back on the time,resources,materials,an power,talent
that it cost to make such a thing. forget about making any profit,so
why bother. just so a few elite TF fans can parade the thing around on
message boards,conventions & so forth.
in case you haven't noticed hasbro has a hard time releasing the MP TF
toys in america. because retailers refuse to carry such a exspensive &
huge item. now multiply that by 10 & hasbro will never release a
$1000.00 TF toy in america. because retailers won't stock it on store
shelves. the security risk alone by people trying to steal the item.
would make stores put a billion inner security tags on it like they do
for computers & other high priced electronic items.
Anyways when was the last time anyone saw a mass produced toy in
america sell for $1000.00 at chain retail stores???
It's stupid shit like this is the main reason Scott has entered my
mozilla killfile. to add salt to the wound,he keeps rambling &
justifying why it will sell. how fans are adults & want something
equal to their accumated age. Scott was in my killfile before but I
let him out & gave him a second chance. guess he's in their forever
now.
Uriel Ventris
thing that I actually understood before it all went into troll-bait.
On Jan 19, 7:19 pm, Scott <fujispamsonyspamjvcspaml...@nospamhere.com>
wrote:
> You might have me confused with another. I wanted better materials used and
> more details in Masterpieces. I did not ask for more or any electronics. Do
> check the posts.
True. That was Zob, who was trying to justify a high price-point, or
providing a list of what he'd want out of a grand's worth of toy. I
don't think you've shared what you'd want Scotty.
> Higher prices need not translate to more gimmicks. High end Vertu
> cellphones are functionally equivalent to budget Nokias. It is those dirt
> cheap ripoff Shan Zai cells that pack every gimmick known to man and then
> some.
I've never understood that (I'm sorry O6, I'll try not to focus too
much on cellphones around here). I wonder if all that you're paying
for is the privilege of carrying around a Vertu. Maybe their QC is
really good or something. Or there's gems and gold or something in
there somewhere. Folks will pay for the darnedest things. I'd never be
able to justify spending more than (the equivalent of) USD 35.00 for a
pair of shoes, while my boss won't even consider buying shoes that
cost less than USD 100.00. Neither of us has any special needs (fallen
arches, sensitive toes, weird foot-size), both of us value comfort
over form, and both of us wear our shoes out inside of three years.
Or maybe I'm just practical (cheap!). My father buys Rolexes and stuff
(he'd buy an Omega if he could afford it, but alas... maybe I'll be
able to get him one eventually), but I'm perfectly happy with simple,
cheap watches with leather straps, but only because I'm notoriously
clumsy and careless, and will constantly be banging my wrist against
doors, walls, people, servers, etc.
> Aren't adult Transformers fans in the upper middle class and above?
> Basically, your average lower income guy has bigger problems than
> collecting Transformers for fun.
Agreement on this one. That CollectionDX website we've been trolling
recently? Private collections. One guy, collecting products by Bandai,
which /average/ at USD 200.00. So long as you can justify the price to
people (quality, quantity, demand), there will be someone willing to
buy your product.
> A Transformer released for $1000 aimed at adult collectors should not be
> placed together with the normal Transformers. It would not fit.
Wouldn't be a retail item. Online only? For "True Transformers fans"?
Kishin
Just wondering here: I didn't think there was any way to killfile on
Google Groups. How is it that you are doing this?
--
Kishin
Kishin
> Hasbro nor takara, will never release a $1000.00 mass produced
> transformer toy. because, number one, retailers won't carry such a
> highly priced TF toy. second no one will buy the dam thing because
> it's too exspensive.
>
> what's the point in creating something that exspensive. if stores
> refuse to carry the item. fans can't afford it.
>
> sure they'll be a small handful of TF fans buying the thing but it
> won't be worth hasbro's/takara's time creating something only a few
> when they can really mass produce the thing over& over& over again.
>
> Creating something that exspensive for $1000.00& having a limited run
> of under 100 or under 500. will mean both hasbro& takara will never
> make their money back on the time,resources,materials,an power,talent
> that it cost to make such a thing. forget about making any profit,so
> why bother. just so a few elite TF fans can parade the thing around on
>
> in case you haven't noticed hasbro has a hard time releasing the MP TF
> toys in america. because retailers refuse to carry such a exspensive&
> $1000.00 TF toy in america. because retailers won't stock it on store
> shelves. the security risk alone by people trying to steal the item.
> would make stores put a billion inner security tags on it like they do
>
> Anyways when was the last time anyone saw a mass produced toy in
> america sell for $1000.00 at chain retail stores???
>
> It's stupid shit like this is the main reason Scott has entered my
> mozilla killfile. to add salt to the wound,he keeps rambling&
> equal to their accumated age. Scott was in my killfile before but I
> now.
I agree that Hasbro is unlikely to release a $1000 Transformer, and *I*
certainly wouldn't buy one if they did. Nor do I think it compares to
people of different ages/statuses buying more expensive cars.
Older/richer people do indeed buy more expensive cars. But most adults
grow out of toy buying. We are the exception.
But I don't understand your anger at Scott over this. So what if he
thinks someone might buy a $1000 Transformer?
--
Kishin
Scott
am done with this. I am going to wait for the Dark of the Moon toys to see
how they look in person.
Perhaps the toy buying culture is slightly different where I am at. If you
are referring to stuff like Soul of Chogokin when you mention those
CollectionDX toys, then they are quite common in the toy stores.
I also buy Macross Valkyries, and those Bandai and Yamato diecast ones sell
for quite a bit more than Masterpieces. And they sell out. I hunted locally
for a VF-25S and finally gave up and waited for it to be re-released with
armour as the Valkyrie by itself had sold out.
I hope the above anecdote sheds some light on why the market, for well made
or good looking toys that are more expensive, exists and is not being
served by Hasbro.
TigerMegatron
8+months ago a bunch of us ATTers wre complaing about the recent surge
in trolls/flame baiters on ATT. we were all looking for way to
download some type of killfile program.
Then out of the blue 8+months ago A ATT member named Uriel/he had a
different ATT user name back then. found some weird Mozillia fire fox
killfile download that he first tried & it worked for him. so Uriel
posted the link for other ATT members to try & use. This killfile
program only works if your using google usenet to access ATT & you
also need to you the mozilla fire fox internet explorer search
provider for it to work. THEIR IS NO WAY FOR IT TO WORK ON AOL,WE
TRIED & EVEN LOOKED FOR SUCH A PROGRAM.
The killfile program that scott recently got added to yesterday works
by adding names & even threads to the killfile. it's a working program
& stays on your computer hard drive like any program you use.
I don't have the link,but maybe others here might if your interested
in using it.
Kishin
> On Jan 20, 6:16 am, Kishin<n...@yobiz.ness> wrote:
>> TigerMegatron wrote:
>>> Scott,you appear to be a troll/flame baiter. congratulations you have
>>> just entered my "Mozzila troll filter. I won't be able to see your
>>> stupid threads nor replies no more
>>
>> Just wondering here: I didn't think there was any way to killfile on
>> Google Groups. How is it that you are doing this?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Kishin
>
> 8+months ago a bunch of us ATTers wre complaing about the recent surge
> in trolls/flame baiters on ATT. we were all looking for way to
> download some type of killfile program.
>
> Then out of the blue 8+months ago A ATT member named Uriel/he had a
> different ATT user name back then. found some weird Mozillia fire fox
> posted the link for other ATT members to try& use. This killfile
> program only works if your using google usenet to access ATT& you
> also need to you the mozilla fire fox internet explorer search
> provider for it to work. THEIR IS NO WAY FOR IT TO WORK ON AOL,WE
>
> The killfile program that scott recently got added to yesterday works
> & stays on your computer hard drive like any program you use.
>
> I don't have the link,but maybe others here might if your interested
> in using it.
I don't use Google Groups, and can killfile in my USENET reader. But
I've heard of others complain about the inability to killfile on GG.
Interesting.
--
Kishin
TigerMegatron
>
> - Show quoted text -
I did a bit of research on ATT thru google & found the thread that
Uriel wrote with the google firefox kill fill links & directions on
how to download it & make it work.
here's the link to the ATT thread from 8+months ago with the needed
google killfile info:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/584028e835f2b9c1/5f4dcce611df2970?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=google+firefox+kill+file#5f4dcce611df2970
Kishin
> Uriel wrote with the google firefox kill fill links& directions on
> how to download it& make it work.
>
> here's the link to the ATT thread from 8+months ago with the needed
> google killfile info:
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/584028e835f2b9c1/5f4dcce611df2970?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=google+firefox+kill+file#5f4dcce611df2970
Thanks! I've bookmarked the link and will forward it to friends who've
mentioned a desire to do this.
--
Kishin
Phillip Thorne
>Perhaps the toy buying culture is slightly different where I am at.
Where *are* you at, physically? Your message headers give no clue,
but I'm inferring Japan.
>If you are referring to stuff like Soul of Chogokin ...
>they are quite common in the toy stores ... I hunted locally
>for a VF-25S and finally gave up and waited for it to be re-released with
>armour as the Valkyrie by itself had sold out.
Conversely, such a price point is utterly nonexistent in U.S.
brick-and-mortar toy stores (i.e., Toys 'R' Us mostly) or toy
departments (Target, Wal-Mart, etc.). (In 2007 I visited Japan, and a
TRU in Kobe, and that selection was quite different. There was a
locked glass case with all the high-end anime-based robot toys.)
In the U.S. market, the most expensive toy you can find is probably
the $500, 5000-piece Millenium Falcon LEGO set. Whereas portable
consumer electronics, the overpriced prestige gimmicks in Sharper
Image and Brookstone, and limited-edition polystone superhero busts
stretch the definition of "toy," IMHO.
Upthread, Scott wrote:
>$1000 is not much for a working adult.
and also:
>Aren't adult Transformers fans in the upper middle class and above?
Err, we appear to have rather different definitions of "working
adult." In the U.S., vendors consider $100-$300 the limit for impulse
purchases (usually applied to consumer electronics) -- after that,
people consult their spouses.
A Transformer *fan* need not be in the "upper middle class," whatever
that means; there's no single accepted definition for the U.S. "Highly
educated salaried professionals whose work is largely self-directed.
Many have graduate degrees ... household incomes commonly may exceed
$100,000"
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_United_States>
I'm certainly not in that tier, and based on Zobovor's
self-description of working at Wal-Mart, he probably isn't either. You
can be a fan for free. A serious Transformers *collector* might,
*might* be so classed, because it's a selection filter: If you don't
have the moolah, you don't buy carloads of toys. OTOH, maybe that
person is very good at finding deals, or bought them on foolish
credit.
A person might spend thousands per year on a toy hobby, but it won't
hit the outlay possible with, say, photography or home A/V or travel.
Not in the U.S., where you're hard-pressed to find a toy priced over
$50.
Now Japan, if I understand correctly, is a different price regime.
Consumers are accustomed ("trained by industry," you might say) to pay
relatively higher prices for entertainment goods: mass-produced and
boutique. E.g., Americans would never accept the prices charged for
DVDs with two anime episodes, and overseas LEGO fans (Japan and
otherwise) always complain about the low U.S. price for LEGO sets.
(There are economies of scale here.)
--
** Phillip Thorne ** peth...@comcast.net **************
* RPI CompSci 1998 *
** underbase.livejournal.com ***************************
Phillip Thorne
>I was thinking Hasbro could at least use better materials like titanium for
>the metal parts and sapphire glass for the visors or windows. Greater
>detail both on the exterior shell and interior details like the Perfect
>Grade Gundams.
Those are some ideas. Deathy had others. In general, what *would*
inflate the price of a product? We see some of these factors in the
pricing of convention exclusive and fan-made toys.
* Materials - metal or special alloys; glass or other transparencies;
gemstones. Aside from gem movements, as in a watch, that's silly --
unless you're going for conspicuous consumption. "My cell phone is
covered with diamonds, to prove I'm filthy rich."
* Number of parts, and therefore the toolings required.
* Labor required in finishing and assembly.
* Low (boutique) production run, i.e., no economies of scale.
* Mechanical gimmicks (comes under "number of parts"). Something like
"mech alive" could be cool, if it weren't limited by price.
* Electronics, but something beyond the standard sound packages. As
talking cards demonstrate, those can be packed onto a chip, battery
and speaker; nowadays those are cheap -- and they have to be, to fit
in a toy in Hasbro's normal price spectrum.
How about lights? Not just a few LEDs, or the "TRON: Legacy" toys,
but EL panels and filaments all over. Light up like a TF:TM
Lithonian.
You have to go into robotics to start running up the total. Sensors,
interactivity between one or more toys, movement (not the "I have
giant feet and wobble" walkers), partial self-transformation.
But eventually, the product transitions from "toy" (lightweight,
durable, swooshable, easy to comprehend) to "collectible" (none of the
above). With today's techology, anyway -- in the future we might be
able to 3D-print all the above features into a Deluxe-sized toy with
the durability of a die-cast Matchbox car.
Scott
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2011, Scott wrote:
>> Perhaps the toy buying culture is slightly different where I am at.
>
> Where *are* you at, physically? Your message headers give no clue,
> but I'm inferring Japan.
Physically, I am in Singapore, which is at the southern tip of the landmass
if you trace it from the People's Republic of China. In between are
countries like Vietnam and Myanmar.
>> If you are referring to stuff like Soul of Chogokin ...
>> they are quite common in the toy stores ... I hunted locally
>> for a VF-25S and finally gave up and waited for it to be re-released with
>> armour as the Valkyrie by itself had sold out.
>
> Conversely, such a price point is utterly nonexistent in U.S.
> brick-and-mortar toy stores (i.e., Toys 'R' Us mostly) or toy
> departments (Target, Wal-Mart, etc.). (In 2007 I visited Japan, and a
> TRU in Kobe, and that selection was quite different. There was a
> locked glass case with all the high-end anime-based robot toys.)
>
> In the U.S. market, the most expensive toy you can find is probably
> the $500, 5000-piece Millenium Falcon LEGO set. Whereas portable
> consumer electronics, the overpriced prestige gimmicks in Sharper
> Image and Brookstone, and limited-edition polystone superhero busts
> stretch the definition of "toy," IMHO.
I see.
> Upthread, Scott wrote:
>> $1000 is not much for a working adult.
> and also:
>> Aren't adult Transformers fans in the upper middle class and above?
>
> Err, we appear to have rather different definitions of "working
> adult." In the U.S., vendors consider $100-$300 the limit for impulse
> purchases (usually applied to consumer electronics) -- after that,
> people consult their spouses.
It seems 4 in 10 males here are unmarried, hence no spouse, which obviates
spousal objections.
> A Transformer *fan* need not be in the "upper middle class," whatever
> that means; there's no single accepted definition for the U.S. "Highly
> educated salaried professionals whose work is largely self-directed.
> Many have graduate degrees ... household incomes commonly may exceed
> $100,000"
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_United_States>
I think that could be due partly to our different tax rates. I heard that
income taxes are about 50% per annum in the States whereas it is roughly
one month's salary here or about 8% p.a. When you figure in the fact that
most single males here live in their parents' home, that reduces a huge
chunk going towards rent or mortgage.
That is probably why I think a 1k toy will easily sell here, provided it is
no bigger than Masterpiece sized as new properties are selling $1,900 per
square foot or about USD 1,500 psf.
> I'm certainly not in that tier, and based on Zobovor's
> self-description of working at Wal-Mart, he probably isn't either. You
> can be a fan for free. A serious Transformers *collector* might,
> *might* be so classed, because it's a selection filter: If you don't
> have the moolah, you don't buy carloads of toys. OTOH, maybe that
> person is very good at finding deals, or bought them on foolish
> credit.
>
> A person might spend thousands per year on a toy hobby, but it won't
> hit the outlay possible with, say, photography or home A/V or travel.
> Not in the U.S., where you're hard-pressed to find a toy priced over
> $50.
Agreed. Photography, travel or even videogames are more expensive hobbies.
> Now Japan, if I understand correctly, is a different price regime.
> Consumers are accustomed ("trained by industry," you might say) to pay
> relatively higher prices for entertainment goods: mass-produced and
> boutique. E.g., Americans would never accept the prices charged for
> DVDs with two anime episodes, and overseas LEGO fans (Japan and
> otherwise) always complain about the low U.S. price for LEGO sets.
> (There are economies of scale here.)
If you think that the Japanese are well trained, wait till you visit here.
In a region where there are riots when just the prices of sugar or cooking
oil is raised, absolutely nothing, nary a whisper, happens as prices shoot
up here. In fact petrol or gasoline prices have just been raised again
these few days and absolutely nothing happened.
Uriel Ventris
http://www.penney.org/ggkiller.html
It's a Greasemonkey script for Firefox. There's also an IE version for
this.
Phillip Thorne
>> Where *are* you at, physically? Your message headers give no clue,
>> but I'm inferring Japan.
On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Scott <not a useful e-ddress to quote> wrote:
>Physically, I am in Singapore,
Aha. In retrospect, it makes sense that high-end anime-based mecha
toys would be marketed in places other than Japan.
>which is at the southern tip of the landmass if you trace it
>from the People's Republic of China.
I can't speak for anyone else's geographic knowledge, but I am
familiar with Singapore through a friend. He taught college
mathematics there for several years, and blogged about the intriguing
architecture (it seems everywhere has more exotic architecture than
the U.S.), public transit, zoo, food, tax system, and weather (i.e.,
daily thunderstorms).
>It seems 4 in 10 males here are unmarried, hence no spouse,
>which obviates spousal objections.
That seems higher than the rate in the U.S., although "permanent
couples who don't bother with marriage" is a growing trend. I work at
an economic research firm, but it would take me a while to find the
pertinent stats from the U.S. Census.
>[...]
>I think that could be due partly to our different tax rates. I heard that
>income taxes are about 50% per annum in the States
U.S. taxes are complicated. If you add together local, state and
federal tax rates, it can indeed approach that value. OTOH, due to
deductions and exemptions, many taxpayers are refunded almost the full
amount withheld from their paychecks.
>[...] most single males here live in their parents' home, that
>reduces a huge chunk going towards rent or mortgage.
Whereas in the U.S., 25% of income spent on housing is considered the
norm. And for decades, there's been a social stigma against adults
living with their parents -- the expected life trajectory is home,
college, unmarried life (possibly with house/flat/roommates to split
the cost), then marriage. Then the recent recession led to "boomerang
kids" (returned home due to a shortage of jobs for new college
graduates) and other household mergers.
Also, most U.S. adults (outside cities) own cars, which may not be the
case in Singapore. That's another big drain on income.
(I think we've established divergent economic cultures by now.)
>That is probably why I think a 1k toy will easily sell here, provided it is
>no bigger than Masterpiece sized as new properties are selling $1,900 per
>square foot or about USD 1,500 psf.
That's a well-known economic principle: If you can't buy real estate,
you probably buy other big-ticket items (cars, vacations). But U.S.
real estate has never sold for anything *near* that price, not even in
our densest, most prestigious cities. (Again: Approximation, because
I don't feel like researching the exact numbers.)
But the high-end collector market in Singapore and similar places is a
small fraction of the market for low-end toys. The question for
Hasbro's beancounters would be: Are there *enough* such high-end
collectors to justify the development costs of a high-end toy?
Manufacturers of automobiles and wristwatches probably have an easier
time upgrading their processes -- and they have history on their side.
People are *accustomed* to prestige vehicles and fashion timekeeping.
>[...]
>> Now Japan, if I understand correctly, is a different price regime.
>> Consumers are accustomed ("trained by industry," you might say) to pay
>> relatively higher prices for entertainment goods: [...]
>
>If you think that the Japanese are well trained, wait till you visit here.
>In a region where there are riots when just the prices of sugar or cooking
>oil is raised, absolutely nothing, nary a whisper, happens as prices shoot
>up here. [...]
Singapore has an international reputation as a tightly-controlled
society, but that's surprising. But I don't know that those are
comparable situations: price sensitivity to essentials/staples vs.
non-essentials/luxuries. "The same DVD is half the price in the U.S.?
Okay, whatever." "The price of eggs went up by 10%? It's a
conspiracy!"
(Lessee, checking our database... Y/Y percent change in the Singapore
all-items CPI over the past year, 2.0-4.5%. In the food-only CPI,
only 1.0-2.0%. In recreation and others, about the same.)
TigerMegatron
hence no spouse, which obviates spousal objections."
That's because 9 out 10 singapore guys who live in signapore have
small dicks/penis that are barely over 2 inches long. honestly you
can't blame a singapore girl/women for wanting a non-singapore guy
with a bigger dick/penis.
Scott
*male* anatomy. I leave the house to draw its own conclusions.
Scott
> Phillip Thorne <peth...@comcast.net> wondered:
>>> Where *are* you at, physically? Your message headers give no clue,
>>> but I'm inferring Japan.
>
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Scott <not a useful e-ddress to quote> wrote:
>> Physically, I am in Singapore,
>
> Aha. In retrospect, it makes sense that high-end anime-based mecha
> toys would be marketed in places other than Japan.
The high end mecha toys are not actively marketed here. Rather, they are
brought in by independent importers.
Then again, Sony and Microsoft Japan seems to think we all speak Japanese
here and insist on releasing a significant number of PS3 and Xbox 360 games
in Japanese.
>> which is at the southern tip of the landmass if you trace it
>> from the People's Republic of China.
>
> I can't speak for anyone else's geographic knowledge, but I am
> familiar with Singapore through a friend. He taught college
> mathematics there for several years, and blogged about the intriguing
> architecture (it seems everywhere has more exotic architecture than
> the U.S.), public transit, zoo, food, tax system, and weather (i.e.,
> daily thunderstorms).
I like the way your friend romanticised this place. No to the daily
thunderstorms but yes to a choking haze usually in late spring and early
summer.
>> It seems 4 in 10 males here are unmarried, hence no spouse,
>> which obviates spousal objections.
>
> That seems higher than the rate in the U.S., although "permanent
> couples who don't bother with marriage" is a growing trend. I work at
> an economic research firm, but it would take me a while to find the
> pertinent stats from the U.S. Census.
The difference is in that the unmarried ones here are not cohabiting either
due to high property prices.
>> [...]
>> I think that could be due partly to our different tax rates. I heard that
>> income taxes are about 50% per annum in the States
>
> U.S. taxes are complicated. If you add together local, state and
> federal tax rates, it can indeed approach that value. OTOH, due to
> deductions and exemptions, many taxpayers are refunded almost the full
> amount withheld from their paychecks.
Cool. That part was left out by those who chatted with me.
>> [...] most single males here live in their parents' home, that
>> reduces a huge chunk going towards rent or mortgage.
>
> Whereas in the U.S., 25% of income spent on housing is considered the
> norm. And for decades, there's been a social stigma against adults
> living with their parents -- the expected life trajectory is home,
> college, unmarried life (possibly with house/flat/roommates to split
> the cost), then marriage. Then the recent recession led to "boomerang
> kids" (returned home due to a shortage of jobs for new college
> graduates) and other household mergers.
>
> Also, most U.S. adults (outside cities) own cars, which may not be the
> case in Singapore. That's another big drain on income.
Do you have the Toyota Vios in the States? It is the Sedan version of the
Yaris. It sold for about SGD55,000 a few years back. I think the Corolla is
now about SGD90,000. Each car is only valid for ten years, whereafter a new
certificate of entitlement must be bought. I think recently those are
priced at about SGD40,000.
> (I think we've established divergent economic cultures by now.)
Indeed, just to establish why fans can and do spend in Singapore; they
cannot afford housing nor cars, so that money goes to luxuries.
>> That is probably why I think a 1k toy will easily sell here, provided it is
>> no bigger than Masterpiece sized as new properties are selling $1,900 per
>> square foot or about USD 1,500 psf.
>
> That's a well-known economic principle: If you can't buy real estate,
> you probably buy other big-ticket items (cars, vacations). But U.S.
> real estate has never sold for anything *near* that price, not even in
> our densest, most prestigious cities. (Again: Approximation, because
> I don't feel like researching the exact numbers.)
>
> But the high-end collector market in Singapore and similar places is a
> small fraction of the market for low-end toys. The question for
> Hasbro's beancounters would be: Are there *enough* such high-end
> collectors to justify the development costs of a high-end toy?
> Manufacturers of automobiles and wristwatches probably have an easier
> time upgrading their processes -- and they have history on their side.
> People are *accustomed* to prestige vehicles and fashion timekeeping.
Again agreed. I feel that the only quantifiable difference though is in
resale value. A used Rolex or Porsche fetches a pretty penny.
>> [...]
>
>>> Now Japan, if I understand correctly, is a different price regime.
>>> Consumers are accustomed ("trained by industry," you might say) to pay
>>> relatively higher prices for entertainment goods: [...]
>>
>> If you think that the Japanese are well trained, wait till you visit here.
>> In a region where there are riots when just the prices of sugar or cooking
>> oil is raised, absolutely nothing, nary a whisper, happens as prices shoot
>> up here. [...]
>
> Singapore has an international reputation as a tightly-controlled
> society, but that's surprising. But I don't know that those are
> comparable situations: price sensitivity to essentials/staples vs.
> non-essentials/luxuries. "The same DVD is half the price in the U.S.?
> Okay, whatever." "The price of eggs went up by 10%? It's a
> conspiracy!"
>
> (Lessee, checking our database... Y/Y percent change in the Singapore
> all-items CPI over the past year, 2.0-4.5%. In the food-only CPI,
> only 1.0-2.0%. In recreation and others, about the same.)
Those stats do not seem to mesh with daily living. Whereas previously a
meal costs about SGD3 sans drink and fruits, it now typically costs
SGD4-4.50 for the same. The new eateries which spring up typically charge
SGD4-6.50 for a meal nowadays.
The good news is that sometimes there are good buys on clearance. I bought
two Red Alerts and one Dark Mount? for SGD50 during the Christmas sales.
The usual price was about slightly more than SGD25 each. How does that
stack up against US prices?
Kishin
Fuck, Deathy! And you complain about Scott's posts as being
argumentative? What a hateful, racist thing to say!
--
Kishin