Cartoon Viewing Club: Zob's Thoughts on "The Core"

[Zobovor]

"The Core" was episode #29 of the original Transformers series, originally airing on October 29, 1985.  It was written by veteran animation writer Dennis Marks (who died in 2006 at the age of 74).  He also wrote "The Golden Lagoon."  He wrote a number of episodes of Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends, as well as the Ninja Turtles episode "Michaelangelo Meets Bug-Man" (who himself was a Spider-Man parody).

A lot of Transformers episodes serve to introduce new characters (fully 42 of the 98 original episodes marked the first appearance of an important or recurring character), but other episodes had no such purpose, instead opting to play around with the established characters and settings.  In some ways, the episodes featuring new toys are more exciting, but there are only so many ways you can tell a character introduction story.

This second-season episode was produced during the period when new music (much of it written for Sunbow for intended use in both G.I. Joe and Transformers) was trickling into the show, so this episode introduces four new themes not heard previously.

Let's get it out of the way now:  This is not a good episode.  It's not even a mediocre episode.  It's pretty objectively terrible by pretty much all known standards.  Sometimes Transformers reached heights of animation excellence, and sometimes it just chugged along pathetically, and was roughly at the level of whatever Challenge of the GoBots episode came on right before it that weekday afternoon.  

A desert river leads to a waterfall, and behind the waterfall, a sinister Decepticon operation is underway.  A gigantic drill is tunneling into the Earth, as the Constructicons just sit there in vehicle mode, looking on ineffectively as a rupture appears on the ground near the excavation site.  This is, regrettably, a staple of the AKOM-animated episodes produced in Korea.  Lots of characters standing around, or sitting around, looking suspiciously like their animation models.  Those are supposed to be a guide to help draw the characters, but the Korean animators relied on them like a crutch.

Case in point: When Hook the I-told-you-so perfectionist demonstrates his 20/20 hindsight and explains he knew the drill site was unstable all along, he's operating the drill controls in vehicle mode with his crane hook.  This is about as preposterous as Rhinox trying to manipulate gadgets with his rhinoceros hooves.  He finally does transform to robot mode, but the transformation doesn't correspond to the standard model, and his entire crane truck mode shrinks into a tiny box before sprouting arms and legs.  Almost all the transformations in this episode are wildly off-model.  And I don't just mean they fail to correspond to the way the toys are designed.  Even within the internal context of the show, they make zero sense.

Each of the Constructicons pitches in to help try and seal the crack, which seems to mostly involve shooting at it with lasers.  They don't all have time to get name-checked, which is kind of a surprise.  Megatron arrives and seems to blame Scavenger alone for the mess, since he's the one with geologic analyzer circuits so he should have been aware of any geological instabilities before they even began excavating.  Megatron suggests Scavenger's circuits are faulty and orders Mixmaster to take him topside to have him checked out.  

Starscream is on hand, as always, to question Megatron's plans.  Evidently, the scheme this time is to tap the existing energy from the Earth's core, perhaps because he got a taste of the raw power of the core from episodes like "Fire on the Mountain" (if the ancient Peruvians could drill to the center of the Earth, why not the Decepticons?).  Actually, he was already getting heat energy from the Earth's core in "Fire in the Sky," wasn't he?  So, is it possible this scheme is actually a do-over?  He didn't have the Constructicons with him last time, so maybe he figured it was worth giving it another go.  

However, Starscream is bound and determined to question Megatron to the end, because this is just what Starscream does.  He demonstrates with a boulder, retracting his hand and replacing it with a tiny drill.  The boulder shatters as he drills into it, thus illustrating what he thinks is going to happen to the Earth.  However, Megatron has a contingency plan in reserve.  There's already a space bridge teleport ring waiting in the wings, behind a holographic rock wall, a close and convenient emergency escape should plans go awry.  Even Starscream has to admit this is a good show of foresight.

I do dislike how the episode talks down to the viewing audience, though.  Starscream takes the time to describe how the Earth is a sphere, sounding like a first-grade science teacher.  He also goes out of his way to define the hologram as "an illusion; a projected image" despite the fact that holograms were part and parcel of this cartoon show since episode one (and also showed up with frequent regularity on contemporary shows like Challenge of the GoBots and M.A.S.K.; there wasn't a single kid growing up in the 1980's who didn't know what a hologram was).  I could see them maybe explaining this the first time holograms were used on the show, but not this far down the road.

The Autobots finally make their first appearance, and the reconnaissance patrol consists of Gears, Sunstreaker, Prowl, Jazz, and Mirage.  Weirdly, Prowl is consistently being colored grey, like the Hasbro retail version of Bluestreak.  What's especially funny about this is that even Bluestreak himself wasn't colored like the Hasbro retail version of Bluestreak!  Gears is also much larger than the others, which is technically correct from a real-world perspective (he's a truck surrounded by cars) but it still looks odd considering he was only a Mini Autobot in the toy line.

Sunstreaker observes that a familiar river seems to have recently dried up, so they follow it to its source and find that the water has been diverted (it's a cooling system for the Decepticon drilling operation).  The Autobots all sit there in car mode and see Mixmaster and Scavenger, also sitting there as vehicles.  I'm at a complete loss as to how Mixmaster was supposed to have been fixing Scavenger while he was in cement mixer mode.  Of course, there's a lot of hand-waving required for this show in general, but this scene is especially egregious, because there was absolutely no reason for Mixmaster and Scavenger to make their presence known in the first place.  The only possible reason they would come to the surface is because it was required by the plot, so the Autobots could take notice of them.

The Constructicons disappear behind the waterfall before the Autobots can track them, so they're left scratching their heads over the disappearance.  Laserbeak flies overhead to report the Autobot activity.  He changes to cassette mode and Soundwave replays a couple of lines of Autobot dialogue.  Megatron is incensed, leading the Constructicons to the surface.  "Those Autobots must be annihilated before they can transmit our location!" he decrees, and they all proceed to saunter slowly towards the Autobots.  

The Constructicons combine in what I can only describe as one of the quickest and most anti-climactic combination sequences ever devised.  They all just stick to each other like magnets and Devastator's ready to rock.  You would think that, especially in the heat of battle, they would just do this all the time instead of all the "phase one" and "phase two" nonsense.  Anyway, Prowl is about to fire off a communique to Autobot Headquarters when Devastator attacks.  (Prowl, by the way, is still being colored all grey, even in robot mode.  Only his fists and his forehead and—this is weirdly specific—his door handles are actually white.)

Only Mirage manages to escape Devastator's attack by turning invisible.  He slips behind the waterfall and discovers the Decepticon operation.  Starscream is ordering some green-and-purple robots to continue drilling.  Since all six Constructicons are in Devastator mode and are busy outside trashing the Autobots, I have no idea who Starscream is talking to.  It's not even Reflector or Rumble or somebody who's colored wrong... they actually drew the Constructicons.  

Back outside, Mirage rejoins the group and they use the old Empire Strikes Back trick to trip up Devastator.  Mirage throws Sunstreaker a grappling rope and they each transform into car mode and approach Devastator.  (The episode kind of glosses over how they're still carrying the rope when they're in car mode.  Sunstreaker's arms form the back of his car mode, so it's feasible that he could still have it in his hands, but this wouldn't work for Mirage. The rope just transfers itself to the back of Mirage's car mode.)

They successfully tie Devastator's legs together and he falls.  Gears and Prowl leap out of their hiding spot and the four Autobots effect a retreat.  Jazz is nowhere to be found.

Back at the Autobot base, Teletraan's analysis suggests the drilling operation will, indeed, destroy the Earth (and frankly, I trust Teletraan's predictive algorithyms more than Megatron's).  The biggest obstacle standing in their way, though, is Devastator.  This is where Wheeljack and Chip Chase come in.  Apparently they've been working on a way to reprogram Devastator.  The idea is to attach a control device called a dominator disk on every Constructicon, and then the next time they combine together, the programming would go into effect and the Autobots would be able to control him.  

At the time this episode first aired, this seemed like a fairly straightforward brainwashing plot.  Knowing what we know now about the Constructicons, it may be more significant than that.  We will learn later from "The Secret of Omega Supreme" that the Constructicons actually used to be good guys, and that Megatron twisted and corrupted them with the robo-smasher.  So, these dominator disks may be restoring the Constructicons' original programming.  Whether Wheeljack and Chip are aware of this is an entirely different matter, of course.

Also, the Autobots are surprisingly okay with this.  In "The Ultimate Doom," it was horrifying and evil that the Decepticons were using hypno-chips to control human beings.  The Decepticons were "enslaving" them.  Do it to the Constructicons, though, and it's suddenly okay?  There are no moral quandaries to navigate, no Optimus Prime struggling with the ramifications of taking away the Constructicons' free will.  Nope, it's just "hey, the Decepticons have Devastator and we don't... but not for long!"

So, anyway.  Optimus Prime puts together a "commando raiding party" and the Autobots go to work.  Jazz, Sunstreaker, and Wheeljack can all replace their fists with retro-rockets to fly limited distances, and use them to travel from the top of the waterfall to the bottom.  This bothers me on so many levels (none of them has ever done this before or since).  Jazz has to extend a grappling hook cable for Mirage to slide down (because Mirage can't use these retro-rockets, apparently) and Prowl has to just jump all the way down to the bottom (because Jazz has only one cable).  It's an unimportant sequence but it irks me in the way it's so internally inconsistent.

Ironhide uses his liquid nitrogen to solidify the waterfall, thus disrupting the Decepticons' ability to cool the drill.  When the drill begins to overheat, the Constructicons react immediately to investigate.  Scavenger's ability to detect whether the drill is overheating is not questioned this time.  

What follows is a fairly protracted sequence in which the Autobots attach the dominator disks to the Constructicons with none of them noticing.  With all the technical mastery of a Hanna-Barbera cartoon, the Constructicons barrel along in vehicle mode as the Autobots operate in plain sight without any of their enemies taking note of it.  Sunstreaker is hiding in a great, big pothole in the ground, and Bonecrusher just happens to decide to drive right over top of it.  Sunstreaker attaches a control disk to his undercarriage.  Prowl pops out of another pothole and slaps one on Scrapper as he drives by (it's on the side of Scrapper's front loader mode, so he would notice this instantly; it would be right on his forearm as soon as he transformed).  Also, Prowl's eyes are red in this scene.  Somehow, the coloring mistakes in an episode like this seem less egregious, maybe because it's already fraught with so many problems.

Mirage produces a twin-barrel sniper rifle that we've never seen before and manages to land a shot on both Mixmaster and Long Haul simultaneously.  Jazz just kneels there as Scavenger drives right past him, and he manages to execute an admittedly cool move as he bounces the disk off the ground, which ricochets and lands on Scavenger.  (Again, this would be really obvious placement in robot mode, and would end up on Scavenger's collar.)  Wheeljack attaches the last one to his shoulder launcher and gets Hook. The disks, incidentally, completely disappear after this moment and are never once again visible on Devastator or on any of the Constructicons.

Prime is waiting at the top of the waterfall and lowers a retrieval cage from his trailer to collect the crew.  Starscream observes this and has a sniper rifle of his own ready.  It's kind of hilarious that this guy walks around constantly with arm-mounted guns, and yet he feels the need to bring along an additional weapon.  "It's like shooting dynametal ducks in a beryllium barrel... and I'm talking dead ducks!" he says in what passes for a quip.  This smells like a Ron Friedman addition to the script, honestly.  Cut to commercial.  

Megatron orders Starscream to stand down.  At first, Starscream accuses him of being an Autobot sympathizer, until Megatron explains what's going on.  He's aware of the Autobot plot to hypnotize the Constructicons and is going to allow them to believe it's been successful.  "They think they're going to gain control of a Devastator," he says of the Autobots, "but I have other plans".  You know, "a Devastator," because there are lots of them just sitting around.  Didn't anybody edit the script for this episode?  (It's possible he's really saying "our Devastator," but even that wording is pretty awkward and clunky.)  

So, Megatron gathers his forces together, including those coveted Constructicons, as they await the impending Autobot attack.  Starscream and the jets (he's got electric boobs and a metal suit) and Soundwave are all standing at the ready.  Ravage even pops out, sounding much raspier than usual, and he's also drawn with ridiculously large eyes.  

The fight is on.  The Autobots seem to be holding their own well enough (Bluestreak breaks out the rocket launchers, and he's got the highest firepower of any of the Autobots) but then Megatron sends the Constructicons into action.  They do this weird thing where each of them turns into a piece of Devastator, but Devastator is already in an action pose instead of standing at attention like usual.  Devastator wastes no time kicking Autobots and grabbing them until Wheeljack and Chip activate their secret weapon.  Optimus Prime orders Devastator to turn on the Decepticons, and he dutifully obeys!

With Devastator now swatting Decepticon jets out of the air, Megatron calls the retreat.  They all abscond behind the waterfall, and Devastator uses his eye beams to create an avalanche which seals them all inside.  Ironhide wants to follow them and finish them off, but Prime is a bit more pragmatic—the Decepticons are trapped inside, and they can't continue their drilling operation without water, so he elects to head home and tend to the Autobots who require repairs.  

At the excavation site, Starscream is at a loss to understand Megatron's plans.  Megatron explains that the fight with Devastator and subsequent retreat was a calculated move on his part, giving him time to work on an electronic disruptor device that he could use to nullify the Autobots' control over Devastator.  When Starscream demands to know why he wasn't let in on this plan, Megatron says that it was more convincing for Starscream to think the stakes were high.  "You're such a rotten actor, you couldn't fool a Saturnian simpleton," he says.

To me, this is the single worst line of dialogue in the history of the entire cartoon.  Putting aside for the moment how unbelievably corny it is, the line doesn't even make sense within the context of the show.  We've never seen aliens living on Saturn.  It's a gas planet so it wouldn't even be able to support life.  This line suggests that not only are creatures living on Saturn a known phenomenon, but that they have a predisposition towards being complete idiots.  This is about ten times worse than "you couldn't lead ant-droids to a picinic."  In an already poor-quality episode riddles with mistakes and problems, this single line of dialogue is a huge embarrassment.

Megatron reveals that he's got some water stored in reserve, so they will continue drilling until they reach the planetary core.  Megatron also reminds Starscream (and the audience) of the space bridge emergency escape, which Starscream finds reassuring.

Back at the Autobot camp, Headmaster Devastator is sitting there without his head, because Hook has detached and is conducting some repairs to Jazz.  Man, where do we even begin?  First, Hook doesn't form just the head.  He forms the entire upper half of Devastator's body.  Bonecrusher and Scavenger, the guys who form the arms, don't even have anything to connect to without Hook there.  (Of course, this is a fairly toyetic outlook.  We've seen within the context of the show that Long Haul sometimes can, and does, form Devastator's entire body.  Even with that being the case, though, at the VERY LEAST, the crane truck parts on the top of Devastator's shoulders should be missing.)

Also, this is a rather significant changed premise, just within the context of this episode.  Chip and Wheeljack said that it was Devastator who would be under their control, not the individual Constructicons.  They said the Constructicons would have to combine together in order for the dominator disks to work.  And yet, Hook is administering repairs to Jazz as if this were a perfectly natural thing for a Decepticon to do.  

The ground starts rumbling and the Autobots realize the driling operation has continued.  Hook drives towards Devastator, who picks up the crane truck, folds it up into his head, and attaches it.  Preposterous.  Anyway, the Autobots and Devastator return to the waterfall.  Dev blasts the rubble free and they all enter the excavation site.  The Autobots order Devastator to demolish the drill, but Megatron whips out his override box, and Devastator seems to regain a sense of his rightful place as a Decepticon.  Things look bad for our heroes as we hit our second commercial break.  

Wheeljack realizes the only way to emerge victorious is to regain control of Devastator, so he starts frantically punching buttons on his control box.  Chip warns him that this could fry Devastator's logic circuits.  There's an odd moment where Chip is gesturing at Wheeljack, but the sound effects editors dubbed in a sound like Chip is slapping him on the arm, despite not being tall enough to reach him.  

Sure enough, Devastator goes completely nuts, just swinging his arms and smashing everything in sight.  He picks up Starscream and throws him into the drill controls, which means the Decepticons can no longer control the operation.  Megatron realizes the game is lost, and orders his team to head to the space bridge.

I really love the scene when the Decepticons are heading to the surface and the heroic music is playing in the background.  I'm not sure precisely what it is about this scene that I like so much.  I think it might simply be the juxtaposition of the Decepticons being the focus of the scene with the uncharacteristically heroic theme music.  

Of course, just as they make it to the space bridge, Devastator flies right through the cavern ceiling, destroying the receiver.  Now the Decepticons are suddenly stuck on the planet, just like the Autobots, and have to adopt a quick change in strategy.  Megatron begrudgingly allows Wheeljack to use his disruptor device along with the dominator disk controller to try to combine frequencies and get Devastator back under control.  It works, and Devastator separates into the Constructicons.  (Watch as Devastator's head folds up and disappears under Hook's vehicle mode undercarriage.  See, even the animators knew that Hook turning into just the head was wrong.)

"Okay!  Let's show 'em what we're built for, for!" announces Scrapper.  Seriously, he's doing a Shrapnel impression, even whispering the repeated word at the end, so you know that was the vocal performance, not just an editing mistake or something.  Wally Burr seriously told Michael Bell to deliver the line like an Insecticon, apparently.  

When the Constructicons combine yet again to stop the drill, the animation is a little sloppy.  Scavenger and Mixmaster somehow combine into Devastator's legs and pelvis.  Long Haul turns into the entire body.  Hook and Bonecrusher form the arms, with Hook's crane truck wheel base detaching to form Devastator's forearm.  Scrapper is nowhere to be found.  

So, uh, I've got to ask... how long is this drill, exactly?  It's something like four thousand miles to the planetary core in real life.  We see that the drill always originates from the surface and simply continues to burrow deeper and deeper.  Where was this four-thousand-mile-long drill bit when the Decepticons intitally started burrowing through the crust?  Was it, like, out in space?

There's a camera effect that was originally part of this episode which isn't often seen in its original form any longer.  Around the time the drill starts going berserk, the camera is supposed to be shaking to indicate the intense vibrations felt on the planet as a result of the drill bit burrowing so deeply.  In practice, though, it was more of a gentle camera warble, as the picture steadily bounced up and down.  When the episode aired as part of Transformers: Generation 2, the production staff must have thought the warble was a mistake, and attempted to correct it (reducing the camera movement to almost zero).  The DVD release of the episode has a much more thorough movement correction where the camera shake has essentially been eliminated completely.  It's usually a DVD transfer that you tend to find available for download nowadays, so the original edition of the episode, complete with camera shake, is incredibly hard to come by.

"Ten seconds!" Prime proclaims, because there's a precise and measurable point at which the drill's damage to the Earth will become irrevocable.  "One secont!" Megatron yells after five seconds have passed.  And, yes, he does say "secont" with a "t."  And then he proceeds to turn and run.  Where in the hell is he running to?  Is there a bomb shelter that's within a second's reach that is going to survive the destruction of the entire planet?  

So, Devastator flies thousands of miles into the superheated core of the Earth under his own power, manages to stop the drill and break it with his bare hands, and everything is perfect again.  No residual effects from the excavation, no destabilization of the Earth.  Megatron and his bunch fly off.  Devastator appears a moment later, breaking through the rubble and professing his love for all things Decepticon.  The status quo has been officially restored.  

Now, wouldn't it have been a better episode if Devastator's true motives were still in question by the end of the episode?  Like, maybe Wheeljack realizes that the control box was complely fried, and that Devastator acted to save the Earth not because he was told to, but because he really didn't want to see it destroyed?  Or maybe by the end of the episode, Devastator was just sitting by himself, debating whether or not to rejoin Megatron?  Sure, by the next episode, he'd be back with the bad guys again.  But it would have added a layer to the character.  

Oh, and there's a really forced moment at the end when Chip says his dream was to keep Devastator as a pet, a set-up that allows Prime to end the episode with, "Hang onto your dreams; the future is built on them."  It's a wonderfully pithy quote, but it comes off as so ham-fisted.  It's literally got nothing to do with the rest of the episode.  We did just get through an entire episode without Spike Witwicky, though, so I guess there's that!

As I said, this was one of the episodes chosen for airing as part of Transformers: Generation 2 in 1993.  Not every episode made the final cut; only about half the episodes in the series (52 total) were converted into G2 episodes.  Obviously, with the Constructicons existing as G2 toys, this was a good episode to advertise their existence, despite them being green in the cartoon and the actual G2 toys being yellow (and, later, orange).  No explanations were ever made as to the color discrepancies, but I guess inaccurate advertising is better than no advertising at all (and, really, it's not like the G1 cartoon got the colors right 100% of the time either).  They sure weren't choosy about which episodes they selected, though.  (Of the AKOM triumverate from season two—"The Autobot Run," "The Core," and "City of Steel," arguably the poorest-quality episodes—all three of them were converted into G2 episodes.)

Well, it was great that somebody thought this tired old cartoon was still marketable even in the action-packed 1990's, and I loved seeing the show in a weekday afternoon time slot again, but this is such a poor representation of the show as a whole.

Remember, it's "The Return of Optimus Prime" parts 1 and 2 for the month of July, so get watching if you haven't started already!


Zob (likes that the 15th of the month doesn't usually interfere with too many holidays)

[David Connell]

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 1:16:27 AM UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:
> "The Core" was episode #29 of the original Transformers series, originally airing on October 29, 1985.  It was written by veteran animation writer Dennis Marks (who died in 2006 at the age of 74).  He also wrote "The Golden Lagoon."  He wrote a number of episodes of Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends, as well as the Ninja Turtles episode "Michaelangelo Meets Bug-Man" (who himself was a Spider-Man parody).

Never cared for this episode, since it undermines the idea of the Autobots being in general the good side. "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" ... unless said being is a useful weapon. Then mind control is perfectly fine.

Poor animation I can deal with. Poor concepts and writing are another story.

[Zobovor]

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 2:51:52 PM UTC-6, David Connell wrote:

> Never cared for this episode, since it undermines the idea of the Autobots
> being in general the good side. "Freedom is the right of all sentient
> beings" ... unless said being is a useful weapon. Then mind control is
> perfectly fine.

Well, I guess it really depends on what the dominator disks actually did. For one, it was a non-invasive procedure. It didn't require the Autobots to dig through the Constructicons' minds and tamper with their circuitry. Indeed, the Constructicons seemed not to notice the disks at all. Also, it didn't really seem to affect their personalities (even as an Autobot ally, Hook was still a haughty perfectionist) so it's arguable no reprogramming was even done. It seems more akin to what happened to Gears after losing his circuit card in "Changing Gears." Of course, Ironhide called Megatron a monster for doing that to Gears in the first place.

We know that the Constructicons were originally good guys, though, and that Megatron turned them evil. The episode doesn't reveal whether Chip and Wheeljack knew that or not (in real time, that episode hadn't been written yet; in-universe, I don't think any of the Autobots knew about it until Omega Supreme chose to reveal it) but maybe they were in fact attempting to restore the Constructicons to their normal selves.

You're right, though, that the episode doesn't make any of these justifications for the Autobots' behavior. Taken at face value, it's mind control, no different from what the "evil Decepticons" have attempted countless times.


Zob (maybe Prime just allowed Wheeljack to try it because he didn't think it would actually work...)

[Optim_1]

On Friday, 15 June 2018 16:51:52 UTC-4, David Connell wrote:

> Never cared for this episode, since it undermines the idea of the Autobots being in general the good side. "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" ... unless said being is a useful weapon. Then mind control is perfectly fine.

What choice did the Autobots have? Earth was going to be destroyed and the Autobots specifically said that they can't simply attack the Decepticons and win because Devastator is with them. So, they had to take out Devastator somehow. Desperate times calls for desperate measures.

Later on in the episode, the Autobots expressed concern about Devastator's mental health when they and Megatron were fighting over control of Devastator.

> Poor animation I can deal with. Poor concepts and writing are another story.

I liked the episode. Bad animation and some corny dialogue but the tension and the stakes building up as the episode progressed were well done.

[Zobovor]

On Saturday, June 16, 2018 at 10:23:09 AM UTC-6, Optim_1 wrote:

> What choice did the Autobots have? Earth was going to be destroyed and the
> Autobots specifically said that they can't simply attack the Decepticons and
> win because Devastator is with them. So, they had to take out Devastator
> somehow. Desperate times calls for desperate measures.

One could argue that reprogramming him is more charitable than trying to destroy him outright.

> Later on in the episode, the Autobots expressed concern about Devastator's
> mental health when they and Megatron were fighting over control of Devastator.

It's interesting to me how many different forms of reprogramming there are on this show, and how seemingly easy it is to do. Megatron fiddles with Bumblebee's memory chips in "Transport to Oblivion" and it doesn't change his allegiance or personality in the slightest; it only changes his stored knowledge. In other instances like "The Secret of Omega Supreme," the reprogramming is complete and absolute, and not only is it permanent, but it comes with a risk of serious brain damage. The Constructicons alone get conflicting programming instructions three times over the course of the show. (No wonder poor Mixmaster is so messed-up.)

Why aren't there some kind of programming safeguards in place? I mean, yeah, since the Autobots are consumer products, it makes sense for them to be programmed to vacuum under your couch or dust your furniture or whatever, but after they declared their freedom, you'd think they would have installed some kind of anti-reprogramming blocks.

I'm surprised Gustavo hasn't chimed in yet. I know that robots getting reprogrammed is one of his pet issues.

> I liked the episode. Bad animation and some corny dialogue but the tension
> and the stakes building up as the episode progressed were well done.

I've always said that in some ways, the medium is the message. You know they're not going to destroy the Earth by episode's end (this ain't The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, after all), so in some ways the suspense is non-existent. I think that's why I like the character journeys a little bit better... it's theoretically possible for relationships between characters to evolve over time, for better or for worse, without damaging the status quo too much.


Zob (in real life, I definitely don't forgive everybody who's ever wronged me after 22 minutes have passed)

[Optim_1]

On Sunday, 17 June 2018 14:39:11 UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:

>
> It's interesting to me how many different forms of reprogramming there are on this show, and how seemingly easy it is to do. Megatron fiddles with Bumblebee's memory chips in "Transport to Oblivion" and it doesn't change his allegiance or personality in the slightest; it only changes his stored knowledge. In other instances like "The Secret of Omega Supreme," the reprogramming is complete and absolute, and not only is it permanent, but it comes with a risk of serious brain damage. The Constructicons alone get conflicting programming instructions three times over the course of the show. (No wonder poor Mixmaster is so messed-up.)

"The Core" and "The Secret of Omega Supreme" are two but what is the third programming instruction the Constructicons got?

>
> Why aren't there some kind of programming safeguards in place? I mean, yeah, since the Autobots are consumer products, it makes sense for them to be programmed to vacuum under your couch or dust your furniture or whatever, but after they declared their freedom, you'd think they would have installed some kind of anti-reprogramming blocks.

Maybe they did but advances in technology allowed the Decepticons and other enemies to find ways around them, forcing the Autobots to find newer safeguards. Sort of like Microsoft constantly updating their operating system to counter the latest malicious hacker attacks.

The Autobots must have put new safeguards in place after "Attack of the Autobots" after the Decepticons found another way to reprogram them. The war on reprogramming/safeguards then continues.

>
> I'm surprised Gustavo hasn't chimed in yet. I know that robots getting reprogrammed is one of his pet issues.

I think it would have been cool if Isaac Asimov could write a Transformer story. He is an expert on robot programming/intelligence. A Headmasters series in which he explores how the human/Nebulan partners work well with the robot partners would have been great.

>
> > I liked the episode. Bad animation and some corny dialogue but the tension
> > and the stakes building up as the episode progressed were well done.
>
> I've always said that in some ways, the medium is the message. You know they're not going to destroy the Earth by episode's end (this ain't The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, after all), so in some ways the suspense is non-existent.

That is true but it was good to pretend. When Devastator destroyed the bridge, stranding everyone on Earth as it was about to explode, I was thinking how they would be getting out of this one.

OTOH, I didn't think Hasbro was going to kill off beloved Autobots in the most sadistic and disposable way in the first 30 minutes of the movie. But they did.

[David Connell]

I agree that tSoOS puts a more positive light on this episode, but as you said, that one hadn't been released yet, so "restoring the Contructicons to their proper selves" can't have been on the radar.

We're just expected to accept as good actions that would have been labeled evil had the Decpticons done it. In fact, the dominator discs seem rather similar in function to Megatron's tampering of the Autobots' recharge beds in "Attsck of the Autobots". So there's even justification in universe for the use of the discs to be considered wrong. The same Autobots who were enacting the plan here were subject to the same kind of mindscrew at the hands of Megatron.

While such moral greyness is required in real-life war, this isn't real life, and out of character for the Autobots as usually portrayed. It's so out of character, especially for Prime, that it knocked me out of the story, even as a kid.

[Zobovor]

On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 7:29:37 AM UTC-6, Optim_1 wrote:

> "The Core" and "The Secret of Omega Supreme" are two but what is the third
> programming instruction the Constructicons got?

I was trying to say that they had been programmed a total of three times. So, it would have been their original creation (when they were good guys), then the reprogramming from "The Secret of Omega Supreme" to make them evil, and then another (temporary) reprogramming to make them good guys again. That's got to really mess with their circuitry after a while.

> OTOH, I didn't think Hasbro was going to kill off beloved Autobots in the
> most sadistic and disposable way in the first 30 minutes of the movie. But
> they did.

I will say this for the movie... it totally opened up the storytelling possibilities. Once they broke the rules of the first and second seasons and went "oh, by the way, we can actually kill off characters now" it did add a real sense of drama to future episodes. Thanks to the movie, it was entirely within the realm of possibility that Springer getting dismantled in "Five Faces of Darkness" was permanent. I remember watching "The Dweller in the Depths" with my little sister and she was convinced that Wreck-Gar was a goner after he got swallowed up by the Trans-Organics.


Zob (it's one of the reasons I like The Walking Dead... nobody is safe)

[Jonny Sorensen]

I can't say the inconsistencies of the show is something I thought about as a kid, but as an adult I can excuse most of with the whole "lots of writers" working on various stories that don't always tie together thing.

As for the "reprogramming" issues to my way of thinking ANY time this sort of thing goes on would be a form of hacking.

Along with any manipulation of the bots cpu/intelligence whatever may be the physical removal or modification of some physical parts that might affect their ability to transform or otherwise function as normal.

In the real world there is single hacker proof anything (as far as we know) so for super-intelligent robots it would be reasonable that once they immobilize a prisoner/enemy and had time on their hands they could reasonably hack and do just about anything to them, but it might not work next time once the opposition knew about the latest security breach etc.

Given the writer(s) ability to throw out any mcguffin week to week eg a RE-Bigulator or a mind control....ray, or a force field Dampener - [the list of things is seemingly endless] (for the plot) and makes it hard to apply any sort of real reasoning to the fictional world, but it is fun to theorize and imagine "reasons" why things just didn't make sense or add up week to week.

[Jonny Sorensen]

Typo in my text:

"In the real world there is single hacker proof anything (as far as we know)"

SHOULD READ AS

"In the real world there is NO single hacker proof anything (as far as we know)" Apologies. Is there no "edit" function, if so I'm not seeing it?

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 1:58:10 AM UTC-6, Jonny Sorensen wrote:

> I can't say the inconsistencies of the show is something I thought about as a
> kid, but as an adult I can excuse most of with the whole "lots of writers"
> working on various stories that don't always tie together thing.

One of the advantages of having lots of writers work on the show is that everybody has a slightly different take on the characters and the mythos. It makes the characters a lot more multi-faceted, and a little more like real life. Sometimes Optimus Prime is dry and serious and sometimes he cracks jokes. Sometimes Starscream is secretly plotting and sometimes he's openly defiant. I think it makes them a lot more well-rounded.

The problem is, it's too easy for a character to step completely out of character as a result of different writers. Ultra Magnus and Arcee freezing and cowering before Galvatron in "The Dweller in the Depths" makes zero sense (though admittedly that could have been an animation mistake and not a writing mistake). Then there are story events and continuity details that get contradicted.

It's possible to do a little hand-waving and come up with fan explanations that kinda-sorta make sense, and that's one of the fun things about being a fan. And, honestly, every conversation I've had with writers from the show suggests that they were all just cranking out animation scripts with little regard for the future. They never expected we'd all be sitting here picking apart the show with a fine-tooth comb, thirty years later.


Zob (when it doubt, blame it on the Quintessons)

[David Connell]

On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 11:59:07 AM UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:

> Zob (when it doubt, blame it on the Quintessons)

I forget, what scripts did they write? ;-)

[banzait...@gmail.com]

Gee, I really liked this episode, I agree the art leaves much to be desired, but it’s a great, crazy megatron plot, that has some interesting engineering elements to it (such as needing the water to cool the drill). It’s pretty easy to sit back and rip a cartoon episode to shreds from 30 plus years ago. Hell, try watching your average movie from that time period.
I have fond memories of this episode. The dominator discs is a timeless concept, that even made it into one of toyhax.com sticker sets last year. I also remember being intrigued at the opportunity that one day devestator might join the autobots. It never happened of course, but in the mid 80s, I thought it could be a possibility in a later episode.
Everyone has their own opinions, and I respect that. I just thought I had to stick up for the core. I don’t think it’s anywhere in the same league as carnage in c minor, nor is it a bad episode. It’s a classic.

BanzItron

[Zobovor]

On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 10:23:24 PM UTC-6, banzait...@gmail.com wrote:

> Gee, I really liked this episode. It’s pretty easy to sit back and rip a

> cartoon episode to shreds from 30 plus years ago.

I never imagined "The Core" would have its proponents! But then, I will usually defend "Carnage in C-Minor" as a fun episode, despite its flaws.

I think that, to some degree, the high-concept scripts that would be more demanding of the animators were given to the more skilled animation teams like Toei. One thing I think the AKOM episodes from season two have in common is that there are a lot of characters just standing around (Decepticons in their base in "City of Steel," Autobots in car mode in "The Autobot Run," pretty much everybody in "The Core") so the less challenging episodes were given to the less skilled animation teams.

Had this been a Toei episode with some really dynamic visuals, I might have liked it a lot more. I'm an artist, though, so the quality of the animation is important to me. Maybe it affects my enjoyment of an episode more than other people. I don't know. Insert shrug here.


Zob (picking apart 30-year-old cartoon episodes is what I do best)

[Optim_1]

On Wednesday, 27 June 2018 00:23:24 UTC-4, banzait...@gmail.com wrote:

> Everyone has their own opinions, and I respect that. I just thought I had to stick up for the core. I don’t think it’s anywhere in the same league as carnage in c minor, nor is it a bad episode. It’s a classic.
>
> BanzItron

I like "Carnage in C-Minor." I find it has a original story, better than the vast majority of other Transformers episodes. To each his own.

Maybe I am too forgiving, but I wouldn't mind rewatching ALL of the G1 Transformers episodes except for "Aerial Assault", in which Megatron's plan was to build a purple statue; "Fire on the Mountain", in which his plan was to build a cannon on top of a pyramid; "Madman's Paradise", in which I didn't like the story; and "Rebirth" in which I can't identify why I don't like the episode. G1 episodes always has something in it that I liked, such as story, animation or character moments.

I can't say the same for other animated shows from the 80's I've seen. I watched the entire Spider-Man animated series from the early 80's on Netflix and I found nearly every episode unwatchable. Ditto for He-Man and G.I. Joe, who were the other cartoon shows from the 80's I watched back then. I also remember watching the Ghostbusters cartoon back then and found it bland many times. Don't recall much of Voltron or Go-Bots but I've watched them too back then. I watched Tranzor Z, a Japanese import show, but I don't like it now. It is too violent.

Transformers is the only cartoon show from the 80's that still hold up well. I even prefer it to the Marvel cartoon shows from the 90's like Spider-Man and X-Men in which I only saw a couple of episodes before giving up. The only cartoon shows that were as entertaining as the Sunbow Transformers were the Disney afternoon shows from the early 90's with my favourite being Darkwing Duck. But I am not as nostalgic with Darkwing Duck as I am with Sunbow Transformers.

The Transformers comics back then were good too, better than the Dreamwave and IDW comics. I want Marvel Comics to get the license to Transformers back.

[Zobovor]

On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 8:56:53 AM UTC-6, Optim_1 wrote:

> Maybe I am too forgiving, but I wouldn't mind rewatching ALL of the G1
> Transformers episodes except for "Aerial Assault", in which Megatron's plan
> was to build a purple statue; "Fire on the Mountain", in which his plan was
> to build a cannon on top of a pyramid; "Madman's Paradise", in which I didn't
> like the story; and "Rebirth" in which I can't identify why I don't like the
> episode. G1 episodes always has something in it that I liked, such as story,
> animation or character moments.

I don't think there are any G1 episodes that are completely irredeemable. Every one of them has something to enjoy. There are, of course, some that are more rewatchable than others.

I would say the episode I've watched the fewest number of times is "The Big Broadcast of 2006." I have a strange relationship with that episode. For years, it was the only episode I never managed to tape off the Sci-Fi Channel. I knew what episodes played in which order, so I actually had a wall calendar where I'd written which episodes played on which days so I could finally get that elusive episode on tape. I've seriously probably only watched it six or seven times, which is exceptionally strange for me. Most of the others number in the hundreds, easily.

> I can't say the same for other animated shows from the 80's I've seen. I
> watched the entire Spider-Man animated series from the early 80's on Netflix
> and I found nearly every episode unwatchable. Ditto for He-Man and G.I. Joe,
> who were the other cartoon shows from the 80's I watched back then. I also
> remember watching the Ghostbusters cartoon back then and found it bland many
> times. Don't recall much of Voltron or Go-Bots but I've watched them too back
> then. I watched Tranzor Z, a Japanese import show, but I don't like it now.
> It is too violent.

Wow, so many memories!

I watched Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends when I was growing up, but it confused me a little because the other Spider-Man cartoon from the 1960's was running in syndication at the same time. I researched it a few years ago when I was hunting for recycled Marvel Productions music, and I find it eminently forgettable now.

I was a big fan of He-Man back in the day, and I was especially fond of Orko. (I still collect any and all merchandise I find of him, which is surprisingly plentiful in recent years.) I have some of the episodes on DVD somewhere. From an academic perspective, it's interesting how much animation Filmation got away with recycling. And, of course, you've got to love the voice acting (Alan Oppenheimer as Skeletor, in particular).

I never got into G.I. Joe as a kid. It always came on in the mornings when I had to leave for school, so I would only get to watch the first half of every episode. I loved G.I. Joe: the Movie when it came out, though (and still do). I'm mostly a fan of Cobra Commander. I've since gotten the show on DVD and I've seen every episode, but a lot of them are kind of bland and forgettable. I think my favorites are the Serpentor five-part episode (the 1986 G.I. Joe season was animated by Toei, which is probably why AKOM animated so much of Transformers season three) and of course the movie. Chris Latta is the saving grace of the DIC episodes.

If you're talking about The Real Ghostbusters, that's mostly a great show. It's kind of hit-or-miss at times. There are some really excellent episodes but also some real stinkers. Also, they sneak in some low-budget animation here and there. So, it's a lot like Transformers in a lot of respects. I started watching it on Netflix a few months ago but I was bouncing around and mostly watching my favorite episodes. I'm a purist and I kind of hate the episodes that don't have Arsenio Hall and Lorenzo Music in them.

> The only cartoon shows that were as entertaining as the Sunbow Transformers
> were the Disney afternoon shows from the early 90's with my favourite being
> Darkwing Duck. But I am not as nostalgic with Darkwing Duck as I am with
> Sunbow Transformers.

I watched all the Disney Afternoon shows for a few years. I think I bailed out around the time Goof Troop premiered. DuckTales still stands the test of time, I think, particularly the five-part pilot episode. That's some of the best Disney animation in existence (and, ironically, far better than the DuckTales movie). Darkwing Duck is probably my third-favorite cartoon show. I do still love it.

There's an all-new DuckTales on the Disney Channel now, and it's an abomination.


Zob (didn't see you mention Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles at all...)

[Optim_1]

On Wednesday, 27 June 2018 19:03:25 UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:

>
> I would say the episode I've watched the fewest number of times is "The Big Broadcast of 2006." I have a strange relationship with that episode. For years, it was the only episode I never managed to tape off the Sci-Fi Channel. I knew what episodes played in which order, so I actually had a wall calendar where I'd written which episodes played on which days so I could finally get that elusive episode on tape. I've seriously probably only watched it six or seven times, which is exceptionally strange for me. Most of the others number in the hundreds, easily.

And you still haven't done a Viewing Club on this episode considering how few times you've seen it?

>
> I watched Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends when I was growing up, but it confused me a little because the other Spider-Man cartoon from the 1960's was running in syndication at the same time. I researched it a few years ago when I was hunting for recycled Marvel Productions music, and I find it eminently forgettable now.

The first season of 60's Spider-Man had much better storylines than the 80's or 90's Spider-Man. The 80's Spîder-Man, in particular, was really unwatchable.

>
> I never got into G.I. Joe as a kid. It always came on in the mornings when I had to leave for school, so I would only get to watch the first half of every episode. I loved G.I. Joe: the Movie when it came out, though (and still do). I'm mostly a fan of Cobra Commander. I've since gotten the show on DVD and I've seen every episode, but a lot of them are kind of bland and forgettable. I think my favorites are the Serpentor five-part episode (the 1986 G.I. Joe season was animated by Toei, which is probably why AKOM animated so much of Transformers season three) and of course the movie. Chris Latta is the saving grace of the DIC episodes.
>

That is strange TV programming you got. To me, G.I. Joe always came after Transformers, at 4:30 PM, so I always watched it almost as much as Transformers. I liked it back then. Now, watching them again on Netflix a couple of years ago, I found the vast majority of Joe episodes unwatchable. The best Joe episode to me was the Movie and even with that, I hated the Cobra-La elements. Sunbow Transformers still hold up well today. Sunbow Joe does not.

The 80's Joe comic, OTOH, was great, better than the 80's Transformers comic but the latter was good too.

>
> I watched all the Disney Afternoon shows for a few years. I think I bailed out around the time Goof Troop premiered. DuckTales still stands the test of time, I think, particularly the five-part pilot episode. That's some of the best Disney animation in existence (and, ironically, far better than the DuckTales movie). Darkwing Duck is probably my third-favorite cartoon show. I do still love it.
>

I still like it but not as much as Sunbow Transformers. I bought the Darkwing Duck DVDs back in 2006 but Disney never finished it. There is supposed to be a third set that completes the show. Disney always frustrates me. When will Disney finally finish the set and also release the Star Wars original trilogy without the special edition additions? They know there is a huge market for that.

>
>
> Zob (didn't see you mention Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles at all...)

That is the big one. I forgot that one. That was a long-running show. The pilot was well done and I was hooked but I lost interest as time went on. I stopped watching around the time when the bad guys stopped moving around in a boring machine and started transporting around. Bebop and Rocksteady were amusing. Originally, Shredder could take on all four Turtles but became less menacing as the series wore on. He had a deep, menacing voice in the pilot that he should not have lost as the series went on.

The 80's was great time. Best comics from Marvel and best toy show.

[Zobovor]

On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 8:20:06 AM UTC-6, Optim_1 wrote:

> And you still haven't done a Viewing Club on this episode considering how few
> times you've seen it?

Well, I guess we know what we're doing in August, then...

> Now, watching them again on Netflix a couple of years ago, I found the vast
> majority of Joe episodes unwatchable.

What's odd is that G.I. Joe was considered the more mature of the two shows. Transformers was considered more of a show for younger kids. And yet, somehow, it's aged so much better. (I also think that Sunbow and Marvel Productions poured more money into G.I. Joe than Transformers. The quality of the music is better, for one, suggesting a higher grade of recording equipment. And, as I said, in 1986, the superior Toei studios were working on G.I. Joe, while Transformers episodes from that year were getting farmed out to AKOM in Korea.)

> I bought the Darkwing Duck DVDs back in 2006 but Disney never finished it.
> There is supposed to be a third set that completes the show.

I gave up and bought a bootleg collection that had all the missing episodes. Some of my favorite episodes never made it to the official DVD release.

> When will Disney release the Star Wars original trilogy without the special
> edition additions?

Disney owns the licensing rights to make new Star Wars movies, but they don't own A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, or Return of the Jedi. So, it's doubtful we'll ever see the original trilogy in any form ever again. But, the 2006 DVD release includes the original versions of the films as a bonus.

> The pilot was well done and I was hooked but I lost interest as time went on.
> I stopped watching around the time when the bad guys stopped moving around in
> a boring machine and started transporting around. Bebop and Rocksteady were
> amusing. Originally, Shredder could take on all four Turtles but became less
> menacing as the series wore on. He had a deep, menacing voice in the pilot
> that he should not have lost as the series went on.

Shredder went through a surprising number of voices. Five or six, I think. Jim Cummings even used his Negaduck voice for him, for a while.

I think they stuck to formula for too long. Turtles should have been more like Transformers where they added new characters and mixed up the status quo a little. After a few seasons, I really wanted Bebop and Rocksteady to get replaced by somebody else, like maybe Groundchuck and Dirtbag. Ironically, when they finally did break formula in season nine under the direction of David Wise, they went so far off formula that the show lost what made it special.


Zob (R.I.P. Turtle Van)

[Optim_1]

On Thursday, 28 June 2018 14:53:12 UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:
> On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 8:20:06 AM UTC-6, Optim_1 wrote:
>
> > And you still haven't done a Viewing Club on this episode considering how few
> > times you've seen it?
>
> Well, I guess we know what we're doing in August, then...
>

If that's what you want. It's your show and Gustavo's. It's a great show. A great episode, too. :)

> What's odd is that G.I. Joe was considered the more mature of the two shows. Transformers was considered more of a show for younger kids. And yet, somehow, it's aged so much better. (I also think that Sunbow and Marvel Productions poured more money into G.I. Joe than Transformers. The quality of the music is better, for one, suggesting a higher grade of recording equipment. And, as I said, in 1986, the superior Toei studios were working on G.I. Joe, while Transformers episodes from that year were getting farmed out to AKOM in Korea.)
>

I thought it was because Nelson Shin owned AKOM and was producer of Sunbow Transformers. He got to convince Sunbow or Hasbro to give AKOM more work. I could be wrong.